Ludwig Supraphonic vs Acrolite Snare Drum Shootout and Sound Check. Do they sound the same?
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2018
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Other Equipment:
Yamaha Drums (Stage Custom Birch)
10x7, 12x8, 14x13, 16x15, 22x17
Saluda Cymbals (Glory Series):
14" Medium Fusion Hats
18" Thin Hammered Sizzle Crash
18" Jungle Crash
17" Medium Thin Crash
16" Medium Thin Crash
15" Jungle Crash
21" Hand Hammered Dry Ride
20" Medium Ping Ride
Yamaha 9500 strap drive pedal, Rock N Sock Throne
Recorded with:
Zoom H6 (audio) with Shure Beta 52 kick mic and SM57 snare mic
GoPro Hero3 (video) and Sony Bloggie (video)
Edited with:
Adobe Audition (audio) & Adobe Premiere Elements 11 (video)
That Acrolite sounds fantastic!
I’ve been using a 70s acrolite professionally for years now. Honestly, I just find it to be one of the best sounding, lowest hassle snares ever made. Its cost was just kind of a nice, secondary perk. I’d probably be playing it even if it were twice as expensive. It has a certain, midrangey bark that you don’t get anywhere else and it’s reeaaalllyyyy satisfying to rim shot. So there you go. My buddy Matt swears by his supras, I swear by my acros. They’re equally good drums, for sure.
Very well done! I loved that you gave the drum dial settings.
With all due respect, they mainly sound different on tuning and your mic placement. SM57 is a cardioid pattern mic, which is fairly tight. The Supra mic is close to the center which causes more of a boxy proximity effect. The Acro mic was further away from center. Your first tuning on the Supra was tuned certainly higher regardless of your drum dial tensions. Also if you aim the mic closer to the rim, such as your Acro example, the overtones will always be higher and thinner since less proximity effect from the mic. Again 57 is a tight mic pattern pickup. It’s a great mic for bleed when aimed, but if it’s too close, it’s only hearing a small focused area pickup response. I can’t can’t the amount of poor recordings I’ve heard due to mic placement. Some just go with others do and torture their EQ to make the snare sound good (if possible).
This is a great video. No bs. Well done.
Great video and sweet groove to close things out!
Your comparison was most helpful. Thx!
Supraphonic is better imo. Acro has a strange overtone when not muffled. The Supraphonic overtones are more musical under the microphone.
Great video thanks for sharing.
Some others say that and have the Shell stripped and say it makes a difference that they prefer, but still it is one of the most desired Snare Drums and for Recording Studios it is a must have.
It's all in the tuning. If they were pitched the same you wouldn't tell the difference.
@@TempoDrift1480 if you listen he said he tunes them the same with a drum dial
@@krusher74 He puts the same tension on both snares, that doesn't mean that they have the same pitch.
@@krusher74 If you listen, they are clearly not the same pitch. The acro is tuned slightly lower. Hearing pitches is kind of important for musicians...can't just look at a dial.
Great job in comparing the 2 drums- less talk, no chop fest, just simple and clear drumming/explanations. Loved it!
3 minutes of nothing but talk
@@drumtwo4seven FF
Thanks! I'm glad it helped.
Excellent video, Ty! I have old acro, new BB. I like Acro best.
Immediately I strongly prefer the dryer tone of the Acro. Man that thing sounds sick. Maybe the tuning just brought out the best in it, but I can’t believe how much I like it.
I have both. I choose the Acrolite ✌🏼
Man! Your timing is impeccable (both in the drumming and reporting senses). I am just recently in the market for a late 70’s Acrolite, since that’s what I played on as a kid back then. Ah, nostalgia!
Stephen Humphrey Great! Hopefully this helps. I actually recorded this 3 months ago and just got around to the edits. I have 3 Acros now, so that’s my endorsement. Take care.
I gather that even the exact same Ludwig model from the same era can have variations in sound. It could be that shell thickness, weights of lug casings and bearing edge variations, not to mention variations in heads from the same batch, can factor into the sound. Both these drums sound great with their own "voice". Here's another thanks for the video and for sharing the DrumDial settings!
Lucky you guys! 300$ for a Supra 150$ for an Acro, in Europe it's 750$ and 560$ equivalent respectively! ...
nah its bs. new supras are like $570 and new acros are about $430
@@zombiedrummer99 he was talking vintage drums not new.
@@zombiedrummer99 He was obviously talking about vintage. And he's right, the price he mentioned is the price here in Europe. Trust me, I've bought both.
It's hard to find a used Acro for less than $200 these days. Mostly they are near $250-300 now. Supras are still in the $300 range though. Can't see why anyone would buy an Acro at that price when you can still pick up the Supras for around the same amount.
@@geoffcowan2384 Well, I can understad why. The Acro is simply a better drum than the Supra for certain things, and the opposite is also true. When everything comes down to facts, the Acro and Supra is the exact same snare drum, only that one is 10 lugged and the other is 8 lugged. That's it, that's the difference. Back then, people believed that a 10 lugged snare was just better because you could achieve a more even tension, but today most of us prefer 8 lugs instead of 10, as 8 gives a more open sound, so I would guess that by today's standards, the Acro is probably a better drum than the Supra in a way. But I like both. The Supra doesn't work too well when tuned low, but the Acro is just BEAUTIFUL and focused when it's low and fat, while a Supra sounds a bit hollow when tuned low. But in my opinion, an Acro could never match a Supra when tuned really high. And both work equally well in the middle registers, with the Acro being more studio friendly with a natural scoop in the mids, and the Supra being more mid-heavy, but with a perhaps more natural sound that would work great when doing more acoustic stuff. All in all, you sort of need both. I have both, and couldn't imagine parting with any of them.
The marketing by Ludwig that the Acro was a student drum was just pure bullshit all the way through. They were lazy, and didn't want to make an inferior product to market as a student drum, so they just took the Supra and drilled holes for 8 lugs instead of 10 (actually making it better for some things), gave it a different finish and called it a day. That way, they didn't have to buy assembly lines to make a cheap drum, they could just grab random Supra shells and drill for 8 lugs, and suddenly they had their student lines. It was pure bullshit, but I like the way they did that. I know it was because of them not wanting to spend too much money creating another shell, but they did people a service by actually giving people a Supra but with 8 lugs. They got one of the best shells in the world, and could pay a lot less for it than they would for a Supra. And people even today are fooled into thinking the Acro is somehow less than the Supra becaue of it, which has held the price of Acro's down, which meant I could easily afford one. It's brilliant. But now, people are getting wise to them being the same drum, and the price is going up. They will eventually be priced the same.
I need both and more a acrophonic also! ❤
I believe the Acrolite in this video is from the 1980s (1984 or later) when Ludwig added the powder coating finish. Essentially it's baked onto the Ludalloy metal leaving an orange peel type (slightly bumpy) surface. Powder coating can be laid on thicker than paint. Those familiar with the effect wrap can have on a wood drum will know the result is more muffling and less shell resonance. The Acrolite shells in the 1970s were anodized, a chemical treatment, which I believe is considerably thinner than a powder coated finish. You can spot them because the finish has no orange peel effect. The difference in sound is considerable as the thicker powder coating tends to choke the sound. Perhaps a closer comparison would be the chromed Supra used in this video with an anodized Acro (1983 and prior). That way the shells are closer in resonance. Still, this is a very worthy comparison if you know what you have or what sound you're after. I enjoy your videos very much. Thanks also for sharing the DrumDial settings- always a plus!
Just start at 3:05
Thanks
I use the 402 400, Black Beauty and Acrolite. Sometimes the first three are too powerful for my bandmates. The Acro is drier and also has a fat tone when tuned medium. I never dampen it and love the overtones. You can get similar Bonham tones out of it. That classic Zep and Bad Company snare sound. They are all amazing. I am loving my 1978 right now though. It fits really well in the mix live. Nice video man! Thanks.
They sound better without the donut muffler.
Both are great, but best bang for the buck is the Acro, imo. Interestingly, my 64' Acro has a slightly different sound from my 77'.
I’ve had the acrolite and sold it for the supra. The acro sounds a touch deeper at same tuning that’s probably because the acro has less lugs which makes the tone sound more open. I think I may consider getting another acro although I believe the 60’s ones sound the best maybe it’s the brushed chrome it has compared to the 70’s and the powder coated 80’s ones
From 9:53 forward, why does the audio sound so different/better? Prior to that, weren't the snares being heard through the SM57's?
Nice video! I play the Supraphonic and prefer the sound by a wide margin. Such a great sound and such a versatile snare.
They both sound great I think. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Acro on about any recording project.
@@RedeyePerc Eric’!!!!! Where you been? Miss ya buddy
Eric
Acro maybe little bit smoother sounds, but depens what sounds u like and music play ofc. Anyway both are very good snares. :D Thanks Shane and good summer gigs with the band. :D
Thanks again Ruti! The acro sounds good with a mic, but it doesn't have a lot of body to the sound. Neither one works well with my band with 2 guitars, so I keep going back to brass and copper snares.
ACRO sounds more 'open' Supra tighter and drier. I use a Supra and a SuperSensitive (same shell as Supra with different snare system). There is a reason these drums are classics and still made today essentially the same as the past 50+ years. Every drummer should own one or both.
You gotta try the Acrolite! There is no other snare that makes you want to play soul drums in the likes of Stax Records like the Acrolite. That and maybe a 14 x 4 Ludwig downbeat snare.
I chose the Acro because I have a 1979 Acro and its great for sound. :)
These both sound great. Due to the lug count and going with same drum dial tension we’re hearing 2 pitches obviously. As I would expect, same tension with 10 lugs = higher pitch than 8 lugs at same tension = lower pitch. Great video regardless, would be interesting to hear same pitch, and I would guess a blind test would be hard to differentiate.
With out dampening the Supra, with the Acro. Overall the Acro. I’ve always been fond of mine!
Could you put your drum dial settings in the description? That would be incredible! Thanks!!
I really preferred the Acro. Then again, it's the one I own so it's possibly the familiarity :D
I own an Acrolite and a Supraphonic. I love the pop of the Supraphonic, it's my favorite, but the Acrolite isn't far behind!
2112 Drums I also have both (1971 Supra and a 90’s “Blacrolite”) The Supra is my go-to drum for most of the playing situations I find myself in, but the open, tubby tone from the 8 lugs Acro is killer, especially when I can open up and let ‘er rip. I am of the mindset that you should have both drums and use them ...a lot. Both drums have been replicated but never replaced. No matter what the question is how close dose the imitator sound to the original, that says it all.
Raymond Aucoin yes I agree. I play both regularly
I have the Black Galaxy Acro as well. I find that neither of the Acros or the Supra do well when I'm on stage with a couple of electric guitars. For anything else, I really like any of the 3 drums. They record very well in any circumstance.
In AZ supra lowest price is $350 to about $700 for older versions or the brass version and as for the acrolites i have never seen an used one for less than $200
Got em both. 77 Acro 71 Supra both 5s. Outfitted w p88acs & 2.3 batter hoops. Use the acro way more.
You should do rimshots on the supraphonic.
I'd be more worried about the Supraphonic (which I think sounds better in this video!) being a keystone badge and the Acrolite which is a later vintage. That could be giving the Supraphonic an unfair advantage. I own an early keystone badge and a later colored era badge Supraphonics. The Ludwig Supraphonic in the colored badge era had an obvious drop in quality as far as the chroming, snare bed, and snare throw-off are concerned. Did that affect the sound/feel? It's tough for me to say since my early Supraphonic is COB while the later era is aluminum, so it's not a fair comparison. I did notice a sonic improvement with the keystone (I had the colored badge for years before acquiring the keystone one) but that just may reflect my preference for a brass shell.
I own a keystone badge supra, a keystone badge 5digits acrolite, another blue/olive early 70s supra and another blue/olive acrolite (early 70s as well, no orange peel gray paint on it, just bare shell but the alloy is paler in color than the early 60s acro alloy, which in turn looks shinier). My impressions? Supra: fuller tone; Acrolite: higher-pitched, more overtones, more resonating, possibly louder as well.
I have a 68 Supra and i love it !! The most recorded snare drum in history right?? I do however love the openness and overtones of the acro!
Most of people say that the Supra is the most recorded... but I never saw any numbers that witness that.
Lol!!I dont know about actual statistics but take Hal Blaine alone especially all the wrecking crew
I’m saving up for my first professional snare, and it’s been hell trying to choose between these two and also the special edition acrophonic snare. I wonder what u guys think
Aaron Lin I have a 6.5” Supra and a 4” Acro. Love both very much... Supra is my baby, but I always feel more comfortable gigging with the Acro because I don’t want to scratch the Supra lol...
Get an old Acrolite!
I've got a 1965 Acrolite, now I know how much it would sell for but I'm keeping it because it was my first drum. I'm surprised at how much attention these old Acrolites are getting. Right up there with vinyl LPs, my old school stuff seems to be coming back into fashion. I guess it has decent sound if you're doing backbeat playing but as far as feel goes it's not that much fun to play. I remember the Supraphonic having nicer response, but it's been a while.
The Acros are great with a mic on them, but mine don't cut through electric guitars very well. I really like the recorded sound.
Shane, thank you so much for taking the time to preparing this demonstration. I purchased a black galaxy twone years and enjoy it, but I think the Supra is the better drum. I am not a professional drummer, and my opinion would not carry much weight, but I just like the sound of the Supra as it has Bonhams name written all over it. And that to me is important as that sound is what drew me to learn drumming nine years ago. So, nostalgia and history are part of the decision making process for me. I am going to buy a new Supra when the new models are released in a few weeks. They incorporate the P88ac throw-off, so I am told. My only question now is the LM400 or the LM402. Since I drum only in my home, appreciate any recommendation as to model selection. Thank you again for your time and to all the respondents to your video.
you need to do this again but include the Acrophonic! lol. Just kidding, but that would be cool!
Try Premier 35/36 or Beverley 21 snares. They are better than both imo.
Nice comparison, very helpful! Can't go wrong either way. I've owned both as well as a 5 and 6.5 BB and 6.5 Supra. All great instruments. In an effort to thin the herd to one snare (Don't ask me why...$$$ + space), I settled on a 6.5 Copperphonic. If you took the qualities of a wood, aluminum and brass snare and combined them....that would be a good description of the Copperphonic...very musical. That being said, I wished I still had my Supra and Acro simply for a variety. The BB's are pretty nice, too esp the 6.5. :-) Thanks!
I hear a drum beat from the band Sweet and then a James Brown
Like the deeper tone of the acro
Which heads did you use?
Remo Ambassadors. Coated Top, snare side bottom.
You ready steve.
The Acrolite seems better under the microphone. Significantly drier and tighter sound, both high up and in the lows. While the Supra sort of works in low tunings, and works wonders in the highs, and simply sounds a bit mediocre in mid tunings, the Acro does low and mid tunings better, while being surpassed by the Supra in the highs, it being a 10 lug drum. I just think - in my previous experience as a professional recording engineer for a large world class studio complex - that in general, the Acro is a better drum for the studio. Live, I've always preferred the Supra a bit, but I'm not a "live guy", so I can only speak about studio usage with real conviction and weight behind my words.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. I'm going to pin it, as I think the other viewers may find it valuable.
It’s weird, they have the same tabmre and “sound” but the Acro here sounds lower pitched
Strainer denotes name designation.
The only issue I have with tuning (vintage drums, anyway) to the same tension is that some of the threads and/or casings for the tension rods can "feel" more tense due to a little corrosion, or any misthreading that may have occurred. -Had a 66 Blue Sparkle Jazz Festival that had that issue for several of the lugs. Cleaned them up as best I could but even then, they were not anywhere even Close to uniform across the board. For newer drums ~ not that big of an issue but if during the finger-tightening you come across any rough spots, for sure use your ears =) These are tuned a half step apart from one another - Which has everything to do with tension. (ie: Two "A" strings tuned to the same tension will produce the same 'note'. Moot-ish point if you're not going to incorporate resonance into your playing, but they should have been pitched the same for a test like this. Imho ;)
Jess Vera I used a drum dial to make sure the head tension was the same for both, so any feel on the lugs did not affect anything. I do know what you’re talking about and have seen it on older kits very often.
@@RedeyePerc Cool ! -I'm curious if you've ever tried the Tune bot? (i have not) -If so, do they get the note from each lug, or the middle of the drum? Cheers!
Jess Vera I have not tried the tune bot either. I know you clip it onto the rim and I don’t think you move it to each lug. You also have to consistently hit the drum in the same spot with the same velocity. It seems like it would be way harder to use, but a lot of people like it. I have several non drummer band director friends that use the drum dial and get good results without much experience tuning.
@@RedeyePerc Wow- That seems nuts to me. If there was a Hybrid DrumDial TuneBot Chimera, I might try that for fun. How else are you to insure even tension with the drum dial out of the equation? OK, Now I'm in MIT mode.. -not that even tension is the be all end all, I've gotten some great sounds purposefully dropping tension on One lug. With Snare drums being the mythical beasts to tune, I could see where this would come in handy. (Like for House Kits that don't have a drum guru on hand. Eeesh!) Cheers!
Jess Vera I use the dial to get everything even when I put on a new head and then every couple weeks I touch it up. In between using it I tune everything by ear so so I don’t become totally dependent on it. Your original comment is actually one of the things that bothers me sometimes. The head will read even at all points, but sometimes the lugs will feel vastly different under the key. I have started using white lithium grease on all tension rods and it helps the situation. Good luck and thanks for watching!
Muito bom ecelente gostei top de mais... Abraços. Del Amorim. Muritiba, Bahia Brasil.
Thanks Del! I appreciate the kind words.
Thanks for doing this, but why not tune them to same pitch? That already makes them sound completely different right off the bat. I don't understand the logic there.
That's a good point. I tuned them to the same head tension so that the shell's effect on the pitch can be heard (slight as it is). The idea was not to try to make them sound the same, but rather see how different (or not) they sound under the same conditions. Thanks for watching and the interest.
You cannot have a collection without an Acro!
ACRO wins!!!!!
Very possibly yes, but don't tell the Supra owners that. :)
MrCappon1111 Not really. They’re both good. Neither is better just different. I prefer a less open sound that 10 lugs gives so for me the Supraphonic edges out the Acrolite.
Apparently, having a 8 lugs snare drum is an advantage if you aim for a "phatt" sound.
@@Eurodrummer666 Yes. You also get wider areas between lugs with more detuning of the head. Those areas half way between the lugs get a lower tension.
@@Assimilator702 ua-cam.com/video/Cly60q-UBXs/v-deo.html Here somehow I managed to get "phat" sound out of a 10 lugs snare. What do you think?
I don't own both of these snares but I'd like to own both imho
That acro sounds much better than the supra in my opinion. I do own both plus a 1920 tube lug Ludwig Universal which gets the most use.
I own a '68 Acro and a '69 Supra. Both are worthy. Less hardware and no chrome was all they could do to cheapen the Supra into the Acro. In my opinion, a better drum is my '75 Slingerland chrome over brass Gene Krupa model. There is no comparison. Check it out.
I have a Slingerland COB, but I think it's a Sound King model (maybe?). It does sound way better than both of these drums. Thanks for watching!
What a great video. The haters crack me up! Thanks for the informative and helpful content.
Acrolite sounds more like it’s supposed to be on a record. Supra sounds more orchestral.
Well, the shell is the same on both. The only technical difference between the two in 8 lugs vs 10. Does it make any meaningful difference? I doubt that.
Also the chrome on the Supra may make some difference. I’m the end they don’t sound exactly the same, but the difference is certainly minor.
The Acro here, sounds a bit washy...maybe it’s just the tuning.
The Supra sounds more classy ..
250???? where???? lol i just paid 500 for a bstock supra lm400 in canada...we are so getting ripped wow!
I expect supras to have pits it what gives them character.
Love Ludwig. Acro has always been my favorite. I’ve owned quite a few in my life... and I find them easier to tune. I never learned how to really tune well. So for whatever reason I find the 8 lug easiest
Acro wins for me.
The Supra sounds fuller and more musical. The Acro sounds thinner for the most part.
Two excellent snares at very reasonable pricespoints. The work horses of snares. You can get an Acro for under $200 and it will do everythung you need it to.
There are more differences between these two shells: Supraphonic has 1,7mm shell thickness; Acrolite has 1,6mm shell thickness. There are not same shells! Also: Acrolite 14x6,5 has 10 lugs. It would be better to compare these sizes.
Could the 1mm difference be a result of the chrome plating? Everyone I talked to believes they start off as the same shell initially. Also, I clearly state the lug number difference if you’ve actually watched. Why would I compare different sized drums? Those 6.5” ones are very scarce, while so many people have the smaller ones. This is a practical comparison between common drums, not a scientific test.
@@RedeyePerc Indeed, 1mm is a result of chrome layer. Yes, I have watched whole video - interesting! Cheers!
Supra sounds richer, fuller. The Acro sounds good but a little thinner.
And the acro wins!
Oh man, imagine how good they would sound if they were aluminium...
Huh?
Drum dial is a crappy way to tune for comparison completely different tuning would be a lot better to use a tuner to get the same pitch
It’s very hard to assess the difference because they’re not tuned the same. The Supraphonic sounds much better to me but it may be just because the higher pitch sings more.
...but they are tuned exactly the same, with the same heads. If the Supra is higher, that's the drum's influence. The head tension is identical.
Redeye Percussion with all due respect - That’s the thing about musical instruments, though : tension alone isn’t very relevant for comparison. It wouldn’t serve any purpose to use string tension to tune a guitar; likewise I don’t feel that it serves a purpose to tune drums heads by tension. Pitch is what matters.
@@RedeyePerc But the head tension is not identical. While measuring at the lug may give you the same number, the cumulative number would be larger due to more lugs for the supra. Lets say for example each number on the drum dial represents 1 unit of tension. The 10 lug at 80 (80 x 10) would represent 800 units of tension while the 8 lug (80 x 8) would represent 640 units of tension. Besides that one thing, your comparison was perfect. Great job making everything match. The best drum shootout I've seen on youtube. Well done! As for my choice, I like and own both. I've done this shootout myself and when tuned the same, the difference is nearly imperceptible. The only difference I notice is the acro is slightly drier.
U2WB good point
Acro!❤
Supra sounds much better.
The Acro sounds a bit too ringy and lacks the fullness and body of the Supra.
I think the Pearl Aluminium Sensitone, actually sounds better than the Acro.
Supra wins easily ..
I play an acrolite. The supraphonic sounds better on this video. Wierd.
Los dampers arruinan el maravilloso sonido de estos tambores LUDWIG!!!
Don’t use O Rings when comparing true sounds.
Supra a bit classier sound.
Roy Beckerman I very clearly compare them both with and without rings. Many people use them, so the sound with them is something people want to hear. Plus, it’s my channel and I’ll do as I see fit.
Redeye Percussion Exactly.
SgtThump
Those who can’t tune properly or play quietly in smaller venues.
Notice the great drummers of the golden era of drumming , rarely muffled.
@@roybeckerman9253 People like all kinds of different snare drum sounds, from totally open to completely dead and everything in between. It completely depends on the situation - live, studio, close mic, no mic, jazz, metal, country, ect. There are to many variables to list. If you are only interested in golden era jazz players, then my channel is not for you.
Redeye Percussion
I agree, however , the more muffling used and let’s face it, some drummers go overboard on muffling, where they start sounding like plastic lids, , the less difference there is between the expensive quality kits and the cheaper kits.
They start to sound the same.
They all sound the same, it’s a drum, believe me in a mix to music you wouldn’t know wether the drum was ten dollars or two thousand dollars? Tuning Mike position and skill makes drums sound different, that’s all. And the Acros tuned lower by the way. Also you can’t tune two drums to the same tension, how many lugs, thread pitch, cleanliness, bearing edge all contribute to false readings.