Negligence discharge is a human factor. Whether the person was aware or not, a conscious human being is still manipulating the firearm to which the firearm was discharged via trigger or firing mechanism. Accidental discharge is equipment fault. Like a gun overheating and cooking off rounds on its own without the human factor of manipulating the trigger or firing mechanism for it to discharge. Another example can be dropping a firearm and it is discharged via manipulation of trigger by a snag or the forces of gravity and impact actuated the firing mechanism on its own.
I got a DQ at my first outdoor match while trying to hustle back on the stage to a new rear firing station I swept the 180 rule. Sucked. Had to learn the hard way. Personally I’m glad the rules are stringent like they are so we are all safe in our sport.
0:32 why do you pull the trigger while clearing the malf? that would've been a DQ there if RO caught it. also, fun seeing the RO stuttering remembering the commands for a stoppage lol been there.
I don't know the USPSA rule book, only the IPSC. But is it allowed to have finger on trigger while moving and barrel is not aligned with target? 1:41 pointing over the barn.
Thanks for posting . Great shooting ! What state is this ? You are carry optics , but are using 10 rd mags? I’m in CA and everyone used standard mags except production.
thank you man. this is in TX. And I know what you mean with the 10-rounders. I started shooting in CA and it really sucked trying to get the right mags for it :)
What happened? Not realizing your finger was on the trigger. You appear to have good finger discipline during the malfunction clearing and one reload caught on your FPV, but your finger appears to be inside the trigger guard on the transition at 1:42 while the muzzle is pointed over the berm. That would earn a DQ under 10.5.10, moments before the AD.
@@lovetopew9054 You don't think there are ROs that DQ for 10.5.10? Maybe your club isn't following the rules. You don't think it's a big deal to see the finger in the trigger guard during movement while pointed over the berm? I don't know that I would've caught it in the moment, but it's a teachable moment seeing it on video.
The saying goes, those that have or those that will. Valuable lesson learned and the gun was aimed in a safe direction. Dust it off and come back strong man. It sucks but you now have a reminder in your toolbox for all other stages. Keep after it brother! 🤙🏻
Thanks for posting this. I’m thinking of doing my very first USPSA match and videos like this help me to know I just need to relax and go slow….it’s all about safety.
It doesn't take long for shit to go sideways huh..? I am a proud owner of some of the fastest misses ever missed in competition - with full vetting by my peers, if you know what I'm say'n... Also got DQ'd once by an R.O. that was nowhere near me as I was running the stage AND I had solid video to argue my case. Nope a fellow competitor - who I had built his guns for him - decided that I had done something wrong. Bad DQ's suck, but I am not sure which is worse - knowing you messed up and hating on yourself 'cause you know better, or a bad DQ where you know you did nothing wrong and that you were winning that match til the heavy hand of bad calls falls on your shoulder. Or in my case, the voice from 10-12 yards behind me .. Stay straight and true and remember, it's just a fk'n game, and the gods will always smile down on you😎 You're a good competitor brother ✅👍
2nd round was high left over the shoulder of the target, then I went into a transition (bump transition). But I called it a bad shot due to trigger treeze and came back to clean it up.
The camera angles made it difficult to see, but it looked like you had broken the 180 while doing a reload, with a A.D. all rolled into one incident..... Match directors seem to like to make "U and or start down range and back up stages" that are very challenging, but can be very dangerous due the difficulty of keeping the muzzle pointed down range and toward a berm. Also tripping or slipping on a complicated course of fire, running into the R.O. and keeping awareness of where the 180 limits are should be considered by stage designers when they are tempted to design a stage where the competitor is "required to move" in a direction where there is no berm. While these are challenges that B, A and Masters should be able to negotiate, matches are open to C,D and unclassified beginners, and while it is impossible to eliminate all possible ways a shooter could send a bullet in a unsafe direction, placing targets that are visible to shoot from a 180 + angle, or that can only be shot from a 175 to 179 degree angle should be avoided. I also DQed this past weekend. After finishing a stage, I didn't put the safety on an AR type fire arm and when attempting to clear the gun the mag stuck and I bumped the trigger while trying to pull the mag out. Was facing down range, hit high on a berm, but clearly a negligent discharge! Safety is ultimately the responsibility of the "shooter", but it is not human nature to decline a challenge in a competition, that would require you to take a DNF for a match, even if you are concerned about the safety of the stage design, or your ability to shoot it....
I def deserved the DQ, the round popped off when I was not aiming at anything. But the stage is oriented such that down range is actually where I was facing when I got DQ’d, so it’s far from a 180 violation. 100% agree with no matter the stage, the responsibility is on the shooter to avoid any unsafe practices.
The gun was obscured by his body and the RO when the shot went off, but either the trigger got pulled, or the gun mechanically failed and went off on it own and is unsafe. OP has already copped to pulling the trigger, so 8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets, all movement (see Appendix A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard. 10.5.10 Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during movement in accordance with Section 8.5. 10.4.6 A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets.
In reality, the rule at play here is 10.4.3 - A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a firearm. He had started a reload by dropping the mag and retrieved the new one. It appears to have gone off slightly before he inserted the new mag.
Maybe it wasn’t clear from the video, but I threw the DQ sign on the video AFTER the ND had happened. Essentially I shot into the barrel when I was trying to press the mag release button. Pretty bad trigger finger discipline.
I'm guessing one of two things. One - he's making sure he doesn't dump his gun while chasing the competitor. Two - he had a slight flashback thinking he was about so shoot... 🙂
This looks amazingly fun. But we have to see this as shooters. Things like this happen. Reality is things go sideways but you took it like a champ. Move forward and destroy! 👍
@vmanshooting quick question once the gun has a malfunction, what's the point of rushing if you know the time is most likey going to be chalked. Never done any competition shooting.
@@prim6542 scoring of each stage is based on points per second. So the faster I can clear it, the less bad my score is for the *stage*. Each match's overall placement is determined by the adding up the scores for each of the stages. So everyone should rush to clear their malfunctions. Usually it takes me 4s for this type of malfunction, but this time it took 7s because I had messed up the sequence and it jammed on me when I racked it.
Big props for posting this, def sucks but you stayed safe&downrange so one got hurt…a DQ is a great “teaching aid” bc you will NEVER forget it or make the same mistake again(ask me how I know😂)😉🙌🏾
Same man...I just found your videos and it's always fun watching someone improve. Get on the double taps, minimize recovery time on the malfunctions and you'll be a GM sooner than you think!
AD or ND? 1:45 the big ol DQ sign over the screen. Was your finger on the trigger or did the gun off on its own?
It was my finger’s fault
@@vmanshootingso ND. Good shooting regardless. The CZ patterned guns are real finicky.
@@2ndTierShooter ahh is that the difference between ND and AD? this was def my fault
@@vmanshootingThe distinction I’ve read is that ND is no fault of the gun, but the shooter’s. AD is due to a mechanical failure of some kind.
Negligence discharge is a human factor. Whether the person was aware or not, a conscious human being is still manipulating the firearm to which the firearm was discharged via trigger or firing mechanism.
Accidental discharge is equipment fault. Like a gun overheating and cooking off rounds on its own without the human factor of manipulating the trigger or firing mechanism for it to discharge. Another example can be dropping a firearm and it is discharged via manipulation of trigger by a snag or the forces of gravity and impact actuated the firing mechanism on its own.
Hats off to you for posting this..
I got a DQ at my first outdoor match while trying to hustle back on the stage to a new rear firing station I swept the 180 rule. Sucked. Had to learn the hard way.
Personally I’m glad the rules are stringent like they are so we are all safe in our sport.
100%!!
0:32 why do you pull the trigger while clearing the malf? that would've been a DQ there if RO caught it. also, fun seeing the RO stuttering remembering the commands for a stoppage lol been there.
you're absolutely right. that's a really bad habit I get from dry fire when I clear the gun :( i'm working on not doing that subsciously
Welcome to the club. I got my first DQ two weeks ago
How did you get your first DQ?
I don't know the USPSA rule book, only the IPSC. But is it allowed to have finger on trigger while moving and barrel is not aligned with target? 1:41 pointing over the barn.
Happens to everyone eventually. Nice job with that red dot sight. You were getting a fast sight picture quick.
@@Glockcoma1 okay Mr perfect. I like training with people like you, you're the easiest to give a hard time too.
Thanks for posting . Great shooting ! What state is this ? You are carry optics , but are using 10 rd mags? I’m in CA and everyone used standard mags except production.
thank you man. this is in TX. And I know what you mean with the 10-rounders. I started shooting in CA and it really sucked trying to get the right mags for it :)
Good shooting! Dq is part of the game that sucks!
What happened? Finger in trigger well while reloading?
Yes :(. The mag actually never came out either
Slow down cowboy!
Lots of room for improvement. Goodluck to you and keep your gun up!
That was too fast for me.
What was the DQ?
I accidentally pressed the trigger during a reload. Unless I am actively aiming at a target, I cannot pull the trigger.
@@vmanshooting oh, hard to see if your finger is off the trigger between targets. That was an awesome run nonetheless.
Well deserved, no needs for the stupid DQ sign. please.
thank you for watching Joe
What happened? Not realizing your finger was on the trigger. You appear to have good finger discipline during the malfunction clearing and one reload caught on your FPV, but your finger appears to be inside the trigger guard on the transition at 1:42 while the muzzle is pointed over the berm. That would earn a DQ under 10.5.10, moments before the AD.
100%. Could have just been muscle memory.
There isn't an RO who would call trigger finger on a transition like that, and rightfully so.
@@lovetopew9054 You don't think there are ROs that DQ for 10.5.10? Maybe your club isn't following the rules. You don't think it's a big deal to see the finger in the trigger guard during movement while pointed over the berm? I don't know that I would've caught it in the moment, but it's a teachable moment seeing it on video.
@@L3001USPSA it’s a one step(if that) transition.
Excellent shooting. Props to you for taking responsibility. You’re the man.
Thanks man. I was a pretty bummed I couldn’t finish shooting with guys, but it was a bad mistake.
The saying goes, those that have or those that will. Valuable lesson learned and the gun was aimed in a safe direction.
Dust it off and come back strong man.
It sucks but you now have a reminder in your toolbox for all other stages.
Keep after it brother! 🤙🏻
thanks man! i'll def come back stronger next week. we got a classifier match!
The saying is just a myth
Thanks for sharing. Takes real character.
You learned a valuable lesson the hard way. More importantly no one got hurt, it's part of racing. Nice blaster BTW
definitely. glad no one got hurt! And I love the Tanfo
Thanks for posting this. I’m thinking of doing my very first USPSA match and videos like this help me to know I just need to relax and go slow….it’s all about safety.
It happens, glad no injuries.. never gonna forget that one
EVERYONE gets DQ'd sooner or later. We learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others. Thanks for posting.
New shooter. Thanks for posting this and helping others learn. Great runs.
It doesn't take long for shit to go sideways huh..?
I am a proud owner of some of the fastest misses ever missed in competition - with full vetting by my peers, if you know what I'm say'n...
Also got DQ'd once by an R.O. that was nowhere near me as I was running the stage AND I had solid video to argue my case. Nope a fellow competitor - who I had built his guns for him - decided that I had done something wrong.
Bad DQ's suck, but I am not sure which is worse - knowing you messed up and hating on yourself 'cause you know better, or a bad DQ where you know you did nothing wrong and that you were winning that match til the heavy hand of bad calls falls on your shoulder. Or in my case, the voice from 10-12 yards behind me ..
Stay straight and true and remember, it's just a fk'n game, and the gods will always smile down on you😎
You're a good competitor brother ✅👍
It can happen. It just shows that anyone can make a mistake. Nice shooting. God Bless.
0:47 is also interesting. Looks like you cranked off a round completely off target.
2nd round was high left over the shoulder of the target, then I went into a transition (bump transition). But I called it a bad shot due to trigger treeze and came back to clean it up.
The camera angles made it difficult to see, but it looked like you had broken the 180 while doing a reload, with a A.D. all rolled into one incident..... Match directors seem to like to make "U and or start down range and back up stages" that are very challenging, but can be very dangerous due the difficulty of keeping the muzzle pointed down range and toward a berm. Also tripping or slipping on a complicated course of fire, running into the R.O. and keeping awareness of where the 180 limits are should be considered by stage designers when they are tempted to design a stage where the competitor is "required to move" in a direction where there is no berm. While these are challenges that B, A and Masters should be able to negotiate, matches are open to C,D and unclassified beginners, and while it is impossible to eliminate all possible ways a shooter could send a bullet in a unsafe direction, placing targets that are visible to shoot from a 180 + angle, or that can only be shot from a 175 to 179 degree angle should be avoided.
I also DQed this past weekend. After finishing a stage, I didn't put the safety on an AR type fire arm and when attempting to clear the gun the mag stuck and I bumped the trigger while trying to pull the mag out. Was facing down range, hit high on a berm, but clearly a negligent discharge!
Safety is ultimately the responsibility of the "shooter", but it is not human nature to decline a challenge in a competition, that would require you to take a DNF for a match, even if you are concerned about the safety of the stage design, or your ability to shoot it....
I def deserved the DQ, the round popped off when I was not aiming at anything. But the stage is oriented such that down range is actually where I was facing when I got DQ’d, so it’s far from a 180 violation.
100% agree with no matter the stage, the responsibility is on the shooter to avoid any unsafe practices.
The gun was obscured by his body and the RO when the shot went off, but either the trigger got pulled, or the gun mechanically failed and went off on it own and is unsafe. OP has already copped to pulling the trigger, so
8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets, all movement (see Appendix A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard.
10.5.10 Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during movement in accordance with Section 8.5.
10.4.6 A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets.
In reality, the rule at play here is 10.4.3 - A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a firearm. He had started a reload by dropping the mag and retrieved the new one. It appears to have gone off slightly before he inserted the new mag.
What happend? I dond understand.
Would like to see it without the DQ image. Good luck in your shooting endeavors. Thank you for posting.
Maybe it wasn’t clear from the video, but I threw the DQ sign on the video AFTER the ND had happened. Essentially I shot into the barrel when I was trying to press the mag release button. Pretty bad trigger finger discipline.
1:14
That fella had his hand on his piece the whole time, he was ready for someone to act out 😅
I'm guessing one of two things. One - he's making sure he doesn't dump his gun while chasing the competitor. Two - he had a slight flashback thinking he was about so shoot... 🙂
It’s all good man… it happens to the best of us… you really did improve after this… what doesn’t kill you, make you stronger 💪🏼
Thanks man. In fact, I made A class the following match!
This looks amazingly fun. But we have to see this as shooters. Things like this happen. Reality is things go sideways but you took it like a champ. Move forward and destroy! 👍
I’ve probably re-watched the DQ 20 plus times what did you do?
Yeah, I can't figure it out either.
He ND’s during the reload
Man, you were shooting good, and running some good times! Good on you for showing the mistake. Muzzle discipline or it would have been a bigger issue.
You had great runs! Apprechiate sharing the footage, that others can learn. Next match is coming ;)
Been there, done that.
It finally happened. Awesome stuff as always haha.
thanks man!
Welcome to the club! It happens. Learn from it.
Happens, but as long it is happening safely it is just infuriating and not more.
Honestly, it looked like you broke the 180 even if you didn't pop off a shot.
Stuff happens... Nobody got hurt and you learned. All good. 😎
It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when.
So true
@vmanshooting quick question once the gun has a malfunction, what's the point of rushing if you know the time is most likey going to be chalked. Never done any competition shooting.
@@prim6542 scoring of each stage is based on points per second. So the faster I can clear it, the less bad my score is for the *stage*. Each match's overall placement is determined by the adding up the scores for each of the stages. So everyone should rush to clear their malfunctions. Usually it takes me 4s for this type of malfunction, but this time it took 7s because I had messed up the sequence and it jammed on me when I racked it.
@@vmanshooting appreciate the knowledge. Impressive shooting.
The steak finger basket, I got one, they give you hart burn.
Big props for posting this, def sucks but you stayed safe&downrange so one got hurt…a DQ is a great “teaching aid” bc you will NEVER forget it or make the same mistake again(ask me how I know😂)😉🙌🏾
definitely! when i'm walking stages now, the images of reloading in tight areas comes up and I'm a lot more conscious of it during the run.
Right on man🤗👍🏾 And good runs btw🙌🏾
Nice, won't be long til i do it? 💥🤬
It happens. Done the same thing.
Everyone's gotta DQ in them just waiting to happen. Great runs though!
thank you! it's good to get a reminder that safety is something that should be top of mind no matter the scenario.
nice tanfo
I love this gun
180
Huge ups for posting this. I just did this last weekend in a match in a similar fashion. You can shoot faster btw 👍
That sucks. Glad you weren’t hurt!
Same man...I just found your videos and it's always fun watching someone improve. Get on the double taps, minimize recovery time on the malfunctions and you'll be a GM sooner than you think!
@@WYduderanchdude I appreciate it man
That's a bummer!
all good, it happens, nice shooting man
Thanks man