Had no idea he died. Damn. I used to love these guys several years ago. Kinda lost track of them. Jeff Loomis is still one of the best guitarists I've ever heard.
fuck he died? I did not know this! In the time of Internet, I did not get it in the news or notification from anywhere.... I grew up with Sanctuary....
+arcanian14 -- Indeed. Warrel's memorial stream got me quite emotional. And soon we'll have his posthumous farewell album, albeit quite probably not his complete vision of it.
I saw Nevermore on the 70,000 Tons of Metal cruise right before they disbanded. I bought Loomis a couple beers and had a good hour-long chat with him. He's such a chill dude!
No Jeff Loomis, the guitarist you heard there, IS very special. Extremely talented. One of the modern day guitar gods. Especially and easily the best in this genre. His only peer would likely be John Petrucci. But yeah so glad you listened to them finally. The whole album is amazing. But this song is just...smh...the bomb. But I know many who don't dig Warrel Dane's vocals... And that's why they've become probably the most underestimated metal band that I can think of.
i love jeff but that's a bit much. there are so many amazing guitarists out there these days, Jason Richardson, josh middleton, dave davidson, takayoshi ohmura etc. and the older generation is still unsurpassed in a lot of ways, like marty friedman, jason becker, steve vai, paul gilbert, buckethead and a few others. i absolutely love jeff's playing on the conquering dystopia album though!
guitar battles live Oh I agree that there are others. And the old guard still play just fine, including Vai, Satriani, Friedman and such like them. But Loomis is a monster and there are very few who could claim to surpass him if there are any at all during these last 20 years.
cool! i actually own jeff's signature schecter model, so i'm definently a big fan. i really miss nevermore and conquering dystopia though, the arch enemy gig doesn't do him justice:/
Overall, this whole album is a masterpiece. Yes its a concept album, and explores man made doctrine (religion) vs. True sprituality vs. The human condition. Track one (Born) is the thesis to this track. I think you 2 will highly enjoy exploring Nevermore's material... ... A criminally underated band with GOBS of talent. Cheers.
Brad Colman this godless endavour is fucking amazing sentient 6, my acid words, born, final product and title track is especially amazing really killer stuff on that album
Seems Vin half-assumed he died due to overdose/drugs, but technically he died of a heart attack. Not that it 100% guarantees it was not due to drugs, but, well, sometimes people die from more or less "natural causes", even musicians...
Warrel Dane's death was such a tremendous loss. He had such a unique vocal style and and was a brilliant songwriter. This album was my introduction to them and is still my favorite album of theirs. It's brilliant from start to finish. There isn't a bad track on it at all. Really glad you guys enjoyed this song and I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the album if you do listen to it! Much love guys! -Jason
Yes! So glad you did this one! Excellent! One of my all time favorites bands. Their earlier stuff was progressive heavy metal and their later stuff they started adding thrash elements into the mix. Warrel was a great singer/frontman (RIP) and Jeff Loomis is an amazing guitarist. He is in Arch Enemy now.
Science isn't about blind faith; it's about evidence and demonstrability -- things you can observe and measure, not feelings that you have. Objective truths like the ones used to understand how to build a computer or cure a disease. There's a very distinct and inarguable line between science and religon, and the two should never be conflated. I feel you're judging science not objectively, but through the lens of a theist. If you can offer concrete and measurable proof of something metaphysical then science, by its very nature, is compelled to accept it. I also feel you don't understand quantum physics. A lot of it centers around the notion that reality extends beyond out ability to perceive it, but not necessarily our ability to understand it. It stops at evidence and sound theories, and it always will. It may lead to God and it may lead to an observable multiverse. Science doesn't jump to conclusions, and it doesn't operate on faith.
As a physicist, and not a native english speaker, thanks for that comment. You put some words on things I would like to be able to express myself in these comments :P
I agree, but some things we call science--as in having proof--seems more like what you're calling blind faith. Like evolutionary theory (to a theist, of course). And from a biblical standpoint, faith is simply trusting and believing what cannot be seen. This doesn't make it "blind". It just makes it faith.
I'm hesitant to respond because I don't want to come across as belligerent towards religion, but the difference between faith in science and blind faith is evidence; there's oceans and oceans concrete evidence of evolution, even in our own bodies. Evidence of God comes from writings and word of mouth, not tangible evidence. I'm not trying to say it's wrong or anything, I just really think the difference between educated scientific theories and religious faith is the foundation of science itself. We demonstrate laws and principles in classroom settings, we can watch surgeries and dissect animals and study fossils. I don't "believe" (I use the term believe because I find certainty to be toxic) in evolution because I read about it in a book; I "believe" in evolution because I've SEEN how connected and similar we all are. Did you know that, once we got on land, we pretty much all just started rearranging parts and otherwise stayed the same? Parts of the jaws in reptiles (which they still have) shifted in mammals, and now they help us hear. That's why we have the incus, the malleus, and the stapes and they only have the stapes. We just shifted it over and used it for something else. You probably already know that snakes had two functional lungs, but one became vestigial to accommodate their increasingly slender bodies. I've seen these things, physically. That's why I "believe in them." Not because I read it in a book or a pastor told me.
Well, I am usually just put-off by the word "blind" when used next to faith. But I get why most people say it like that. And while I do agree with some things in evolutionary theory, some of it still seems more like a possible (or probable) narrative than hard truth. But in general, I'm also trying not disrespect science or the pursuit of evidence. Much respect~
YES YES YES!!! I adore this band. Warrel Dane was an interesting fellow. I remember an interview he did where he talked about his being terrified of technology and it's horrible possibilities. He also said that, though he didn't believe in God, he was terrified at the idea there wasn't one. I'm a believer myself, but I always found his honesty refreshing. I've found it rare for atheists to talk about their fears or doubts; a lack of introspection, if you will. This video helped me reconcile some issues I've had with my faith. Thank you so much for that 😁
As an atheist, I'd say you are wrong assuming the fear of death is a taboo. I think we are all equal in that regard. I think most people don't like to think about it tbh. But what's even more terrifying to us is the prospect of loosing the people we love cause we have to accept that once they're gone, they're gone forever.
I must say, it starts to bother me that people even talk about Christians, atheists, etc. and then someone has to read statements like "I've found it rare for atheists to talk about their fears or doubts; a lack of introspection, if you will." I realize I have done similar in the past (extrapolate too far looking at some specific groups of people,) probably less recently, but... I remember when I was young (say 6yo,) I would interact with children my age ("the ones on the other side of the garden face") and everything was fine until, later, adults would shove into my head ideas like "they are dirty Gypsies", "this one does not believe in God", etc. It just makes me angry when I think about it... and all this talk about atheists this, Christians that on a bad day just makes me depressed in the worst possible way. @DisapprovingStare Bear: Hope that you don't read the above as something directed specifically towards you - it isn't. It's just general thought I often have that surfaced when reading the comment section. It happens both ways, from all "sides" ("Christians" "non Christians"), but... I don't see/recognize/acknowledge the sides themselves; I cannot see much good they do... except within the created groups, maybe, possibly, doubtfully. To put it another way: you may think that what you wrote is only about specific group of people, but, is it? You wrote "I've found it rare for atheists [...] a lack of introspection"... However, "atheist" is going to be understood differently, by different people. For some it's being "against religion", for others "not believing in God", and so on. Yes, one can look up more specific definitions and find 100 different variations on this theme, say "militant atheism", "agnostic atheism" (I can add random words to atheism and it will probably make sense to someone somewhere...) So what's even the point... Is introspection rare for the rest of humanity? I would say that everyone is capable of introspection and it has nothing to do with being Christian, "atheist" or living in a cold climate (well, I am more likely to see some correlations there, to be honest {less sun, more time indoors, more chance to be alone...}... but that's kind of a point.) As to the fear of technology. I find it meaningless. "Fear is the mind killer": you can fear spiders, God, punishment by God, anger of God, existence of God, non-existence of God, punishment by Satan, being abandoned by Satan, car accidents, close-spaces... you can even fear feeling fear... Logically, fear is there so people are not fearless and do not do stupid things like test if fighting a lion bare-handed is a good idea. It's a tool/resource, unless you let it control you - then it's a burden that diminishes you as human being. Master the fear... fight it, use it as a tool - seems like a logical goal to me, instead of giving up...
Leeloo Minai I suppose I should have been more specific; what I had in my head when I wrote that was the large number of UA-cam atheists I've seen, as well as a few that I know personally, who only want to debate the subject rather than just talk openly about it. I didn't at all mean that atheists in general aren't introspective. I believe the vast majority of Christians (again, in my experience) have a huge problem with introspection. I can't approximate the number, but I think many people, including myself, struggle with it in general. Most of the time I claim to be introspective myself, I'm probably not being completely honest.
RIP Warrel Dane! In my top 10 of vocalists of all time! Great reaction guys! Nevermore is another band that changed my perception and made me love music even more.There are so many songs by this band that would blow your mind lyrically and music wise.If you guys do a full album by Nevermore do Dreaming Neon Black.It’s a bit conceptual as it deals with Warrel writing about the death of one of his friends that he loved dearly
I just found you guys a few days ago and this has become one of my favorite "react" channels. You guys get into discussing the lyrics and trying to break it down and it's pretty fun to observe you guys do that.
Just found this channel. Very interesting breakdown on a band I’ve listened to for a very long time. To get a real sense of what lyricist, Warrel Dane, is getting at, might I suggest going through the whole album? Dane is arguably one of the best lyricists in Metal. The album touches on everything from commercialism intertwined with religion, politics and even into AI. Super interesting that you’re doing this channel. I’ll have to look at the behemoth one
One of my favorite songs by Never more is The River Dragon Comes This Way - Warrel Dane wrote this song as a political message about the natural disaster which resulted from building of the Three Gorges Dam in China. Warrel Dane was another great voice in Metal which was cut too short.
Really happy seeing you react to Neveremore. I love the Way Warrel Dane sings because it sounds cold and almost cruel in the way he sings, which normally are pretty dark songs about the state of the world, hope is not a common thing in their work they almost always alert us to things. Other musics form them like Born or Final Product from this same album or The Passenger from an early album, are only a few of the examples of that cold view of the world where in my opinion his voice fits so well. It's a shame Warrel Dane is no longer among us. As a Scientist I have more and more the idea that the best Science can ever do is saying: For now there is no (physical) proof of a major being. I don't think Science will ever be able to categorically deny anything. I once use to think maybe one day Science might do it, But the longer I am in the area the more I start to doubt it. Cause everytime one of the universe's mysteries is solved or understood lots of others appear, together with some fundamental quests that will never be fulfilled like the idea of beginning and ending. In Science there will never be possible to define a start and a finish to the universe, cause even thinking of Big Bang there will always exist the question: what exixted before teh Big Bang, what caused it's expansion. There will always be points Science will not be able to solve on it's own, now if the answer is in theology or in the idea that Humanity may need to understand at a point somethings can't be exaplined? I honestly don't know. finally and knowing that Probably the majority of people don't even know this project, but I think Witherscape's Marionette would fit pretty well in this underground show
My goodness I just commented on the Black Sabbath video saying how I requested that and it happened and I’m sure I either requested this too or just in my head was really wanting y’all to react to this song and all of the greatness that is Jeff Loomis, as well as the lyrics of the song too. My lucky day right here. Can’t wait to watch it when I go back home
i went to high school and hung out with these guys. wally the vocalist was trained by the same vocal teacher as geoff tate of queensryche. the name NEVERMORE is a play to the band changing their name a an already established act as SANCTUARY. opening shows stating that sanctuary was nevermore.
My favorite review of yours so far! Your dissection it's perfect for Loomis' songwriting and I'm glad you guys enjoyed this masterpiece. Please do more Nevermore! Perhaps either I Voyager, Sentient 6, or Dreaming Neon Black.
It has been said a few times, but if you guys want to explore a concept record, Queensrÿche - Operation: Mindcrime is definitely an amazing one to check out.
bmfan Also, Seventh son of the seventh son by Iron Maiden. American Idiot by Green Day The Wall by Pink Floyd Scenes from a memory by Dream Theater Any king diamond album Steven Wilson- Hand cannot erase
Mindcrime is incredible! I remember being in the 5th grade, having a bad flu, and listing to this in my bed all night on my headphones. Speaking of which, I need to go listen to it again... been a while.
Stumbled upon this vid while searching one of my all-time favorite songs. I'm not Christian or "religious", (but I consider myself as a somewhat spiritual atheist if that makes any sense), but I was honestly flabbergasted by how thorough, open-minded and thoughtful this analysis was :) Great job!
Yay! You finally did it! First up: this is not a concept record. Nevermore did one. It's called *Dreaming Neon Black* and it's brilliant. Also, if you'd like to do one, I'd recommend *Ayreon* - *The Human Equation* . But be prepared for a thing that resembles a musical more than a traditional "album" ;) Sori is spot on about the theatrical element of Warrel's vocals. The man was indeed classically trained. And yepp, he went "up there". He listed Halford as one of his main influences, and in his early days with his band Sanctuary, he was singing EXTREMELY high, which is strange because he's actually a fairly low Baritone. The man's vocal range was insane. If you're into that kind of thing, I recommend comparing his vocals in *Sanctuary* - *Battle Angels* with the first verse in *Lucretia My Reflection* off Warrel's solo record (a Sisters of Mercy cover). I don't know musical theory, so I can't tell you how many octaves that is, but it seems A LOT :D Warrel has a more aggresive side and on *Born* he does a few growl-like vocals. He's also one of those singers who can sound really pissed off without screaming. But in general, he's a very clean singer, which throws a lot of people off, because musically, Nevermore is pretty darn heavy! Cool to see Vin picking up on the Poe reference. Warrel was an admirer of Poe's writing. Their second full length album *The Politics of Ecstacy* is also shortened to POE, which was deliberate. The band name is also a reference to the end of their former band Sanctuary (which was revived a few years ago). Warrel, Jim Sheppard (bass) and Jeff Loomis (guitar), who were all in Sanctuary at the time formed Nevermore. During their early shows they used to introduce themselves with the cheeky little phrase "Sanctuary is Nevermore". The drug reference is also interesting. Warrel was very interested in Timothy Leary's philosophy (a song on their first record is actually named after the man). I don't know if he ever did those kinds of drugs himself, but he was struggling with alcoholism. In general, whenever I've seen interviews with him that touched on his world view, he seemd like a very torn, troubled soul to me. He considered himself agnostic, with tendencies towards nihilism, but quite a few of his lyrics show a struggle to just understand the harsh side of our world, that "concept of god" he's referencing here, and the (for him) impossibility to do so. But he also gave away the impression that he was VERY concerned about the world, which is why I wouldn't call him a "true" nihilist. It just seems that he was on the verge of truly losing hope, but still grasping at some of it. I think that is expressed very strongly in their song *A Future Uncertain* off the same record. That entire song is a mixture of questioning why we do all the evil that we do and prophecy about impending doom if we don't manage to change our ways. Overall a very interesting human being who was sadly taken too soon. Here is la link to one of the most interesting interviews I've seen with him (there's also a 2. part where they talk about some of his lyrics): ua-cam.com/video/b_h-8b0d1sM/v-deo.html For more very interesting songs (and lyrics) here's a few recommendations: *Deconstruction* (some of the scariest, yet evocative lyrics I've ever heard. that song is PROPERLY dark) *The Learning* + *Sentient 6* (an ongoing story about artificial intelligence) *Insignificant* *Enemies of Reality* PS: sorry for the wall of text, but this band is dear to me. Couldn't help myself...
Don't be ashamed about the "wall post." It's almost impossible not to go on a huge lecture when describing Nevermore to someone who has never experienced the epicness that is, NEVERMORE.
The lyrics are about a Science based faith guy suddenly faced with death and trying to decide between God or Science. SOmething like that. Warrel is a master lyricist and vocalist. Looking forward to your breakdown of these lyrics. Warrel died thi spast December ...very sad loss for the Metal community. I think you will like the rest of that album as well and there album that followed...The Obsidian Conspiracy.
Love you too man, both of you. And I only just found you. I'll probably construct an email for you at some point after I catch up on your channel... Looks like I'm late yet again. I did a quick parsing of your videos to see what you've reacted to so far. As I listened to your discussion a couple songs came to mind that seem to be right up your alley: Blinded Colony - Aaron's Sons Dimmu Borgir - Blessings Upon the Throne of Tyranny Never thought I'd see such a discussion on UA-cam. You guys have incredible dynamic perspectives. This is good, keep it up.
You two are real Christians. I feel like I stopped believing in the “church” years ago. Too many fake people that pretended to not live in the same world as the rest of us. My problem with religion was always with people and not with God but they always made me feel like my problem was with him. Thank you for showing me that I’m not the only one.... God is love, man is flawed. All we need is love, I can’t say I’ll ever go back to a church but I know deep down what the divine is...
If you want concept albums, King Diamond has many. He has high vocals but they are very operatic and otherworldly, and he changes his voice to suit different characters. you might grow to appreciate them. I would do Abigail, Them, or The Puppet Master.
Yeah, right... When I was younger, yes, King Diamond - not a problem, the musicians were great, lots of fun, but considering how Sori had to "rewire" her brain so that Judas Priest-like high-pitch inserts are not off-putting, I am afraid King Diamond would end up as a disaster. Also, lyrics are pretty much light/dark horror-like stories, so I don't know... I somehow cannot imagine Vin analyzing them with straight face. There are many "religious" elements, but it's all done for entertainment, not really to be "deep".
Yeah, that's why I was thinking maybe in the future if they get accustomed to those type of vocals. And true they would have to judge the story based on entertainment and not so seriously, just like watching a horror movie or reading a horror novel. I think it would be a fun experience personally.
That main slow riff is one of the best metal riffs that has ever been, or will ever be written. And I don’t even mention the rest of the song! I get emotional every time I listen to this song.
Thanks for doing this song. I also requested it. So many great tunes from this band you could delve into. This is definitely a band you could do an entire album "listening" and be blown away by their musical depth and Warrel's incredible lyrics. Maybe something good for down the road. There's plenty of killer metal out there to explore but Nevermore is truly a special, unique band that deserves to be picked apart so eloquently by people like you. Warrel would never really tell what most of his songs were about and liked for listeners to figure it out for themselves. There's a lot more going on beneath the surface of his lyrics...and it's backed by some truly phenomenal music. Thanks for giving it some attention.
This is how a song reaction video should be done in my opinion. Thanks Vin and Sori for being awesome! Please please please if you have the time you should consider reacting to Nevermore's "Sentient 6"...personally it's my favorite Nevermore song with "This Godless Endeavor" as a close 2nd. Thanks again! :-)
Nevermore was the very first show my brother took me to when we moved to Canada years ago! They'll always have a special place in my heart. My favorite of theirs is an oldie; Dead Heart in a Dead World! RIP Warrel \m/
you guys comment on Warrell Dane's vocals, but this is his style. he was a classically trained opera vocalist, and Jeff Loomis is a classically trained guitarist. the next best song would be something like Dreaming Neon Black or The Heart Collector. His voice was filled to the brim with a sort of manic sadness.
Dreaming Neon Black & Heart Collector... Right on the nail brother Matt Gallow. I salute you, and so does Dane from the beyond. I'm Danish btw so I may be biased. ;-)
My read of this song is that he's searched for his answers in science, then in music, then in drugs, and finally in religion, and nothing seals the aching wounds in his soul. He looks into the chaos of the world, and how awful people can be to each other, and feels madness looming for him, the hopelessness of death without any answers or peace that he could use to comfort himself. If I were to speak to that character, that person, I'd relate the following: Every day, every hour, we decide how we will interact with the world. We can't control anything but ourselves, and what we choose to add to this sphere of being. Will we seek out the things that bring us joy, that add beauty to the world, the things that enrich others and ourselves? Will we concentrate upon what we love, or what we hate? Will we be harsh and cruel to others and ourselves, or will we show kindness and true appreciation for the wonders of our world and those who accompany us on this journey? It's easy to concentrate on the one dropped stitch in a beautiful tapestry, but it's ultimately a self-defeating methodology for life. Nothing can give you peace if you don't think you deserve it. Nothing can save you unless you want to be saved. Whether the mechanism of your salvation is a stick of wood as you hike through the mountain trails, or a guitar, or a book, or the slow churning of the waters of the ocean, you can find it, if you allow yourself to do so. That's what I'd say.
Check out Warrel Dane's solo album "Praises To The War Machine" especially the tracks "Brother", "Chosen Misery" and "This Old Man"... I also recommend the following songs with his two bands: Nevermore - Emptiness Unobstructed Nevermore - No More Will Nevermore - Believe In Nothing Nevermore - The Heart Collector Nevermore - Matricide Nevermore - Forever Nevermore - Dreaming Neon Black Nevermore - Born Nevermore - Enemies Of Reality Sanctuary - Let The Serpent Follow Me Sanctuary - I Am Low Sanctuary - Future Tense Sanctuary - Frozen Sanctuary - Battle Angel Sanctuary - Die For My Sins
Nevermore was my very first band that got me into metal music and i'm so sad since the band's split up because of Warrel Dane's death, Great choice and great review guys !
I'll admit, it's very rare to see "Christians" listen to music made by atheists and anti-theists like myself. It's very important to allow yourself to experience a natural reaction to music, regardless the genre or artist's disposition.
Guitarist Jeff Loomis revealed in an interview that This Godless Endeavor is not a concept album but a "topic-to-topic" album, with all the songs dealing with "real life issues" that can "allegorically refer to the loss of identity, the system that we roove in, the meaning of life, the denouncement of God as a solution to all the problems that are caused by the conflicts that all the religions have initiated in various parts of the world. It's basically about human beings." Found that on wiki.
Warrel Dane has formed the band Sanctuary in the middle 80's. They released two incredible albums. In these albums you can hear how incredilbe was the range of his voice. When they split up, Warrel with Jim Sheppard (the bass player of Sanctuary) and the master guitarist and composer Jeff Loomis, formed Nevermore. Nevermore was in my opinion the best heavy metal band from the day they were born 'til today. Warrel was an authentic artist (genius lyricist, magnificent performer and he had a blessed voice).You should check out the song ''Sentient 6'' (live video) to realize what the word true artist means.
On Concept records, you should do Cradle of Filth - Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder. Interesting lyrics and story to go along with it. Also I love that you mentioned Issues, everything is so interwoven and flows so well. It's my favorite from them.
Actually... lol. Atheism and Nihilism are not synonymous. I can see why you would think so based on your world view. But, yea it’s me again, atheist only have to share a lack of belief in a god to be atheist. I am an atheist but definitely do not consider my self nihilistic. I don’t think life is meaningless. It has meaning to everyone. I don’t think morals are prescriptive I think they are realized through empathy and insight. I’m a long time vegan and extend the meaning of life way farther than theists.
Of course I didn’t say all atheists were nihilists... I said the most thoughtful ones were... at least in the literature they put out. And no that’s not a low-key diss. Lewis, aquinas, and Augustine are the most thoughtful Christians I’ll happily admit
Might I ask what you mean by your last sentence? Are you meaning that most theists aren't vegan, therefore not respecting or understanding how precious life is? Or do you mean that they don't respect life because they don't take it seriously, living like their lives are temporary? I'm not at all trying to start a debate, just honestly curious 😁
Lots of people doesn't understand what Nihilism is about. It's not just 'Nothing has any value', it's the rejection of the grander value we put on ourselves as humans.
DisapprovingStare Bear I believe veganism to be the moral baseline. I see all earthlings as deserving of life and our current situation on the planet doesn’t necessitate our use of them anymore. The Bible states that animals were put here specifically for our use. It justifies almost anything you want to do to them. Basically I see veganism as morally superior and propose that as a friendly challenge to theists who believe that morals can only come from divine prescription.
VinAnd Sori What do you think of the moral contemporary Atheist thinkers like Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Daniel Dennet? I would say they are right up there with Bertrand Russel and I wouldn’t consider any of them as nihilistic.
OK, my day is made. I almost danced on my chair seeing the title of this video, and now, well, I guess here goes 1 hour from my life... ... and 1 hour later. I want to avoid the usual wall of text (... good luck), so, I only want to focus of how Vin was interpreting/reacting to this verse: Thou shalt not question The role of science is not To eliminate God As alternative Gods multiply Science stands accused of theocide This led Vin to concentrate on how some/many people belittle religious people (mock them,) and put scientists on the pedestal. Which is true, happens, but the text itself can as well just be read differently and more directly. I think that "The role of science is not To eliminate God" should sound true to many scientists, nerds, "agnostics", etc. Myself I just read it like that - with no sarcasm, no double-meaning... In fact, the only part that I feel could be a bit sarcastic would be the first verse: "Thou shalt not question": I think the author could be addressing this to the religious people (using Bible-like archaic language and turning it around towards them) who are convinced that science somehow is there to disprove the existence of god. I have seen/read many "believers" project this assumption on those who simply admit that they don't know if god exists and choose to live their lives exploring science, technology, etc. It almost seems like there's a need to discredit the honesty of the "I don't know"-people. This makes me wonder why... is it such a strange scenario? How is it stranger than believing in Jesus, Bible, etc.? I understand the value of faith, how it helps many people to make sense of the word, deal with fear, loss, etc., but turning it against people who also have to deal with fear, seek a sense in existence, want to help humanity, but just have their brains wired in a way that does not accept non-facts as the explanation for reality... why? What is the purpose of it? Is it being pro-god or against-human? In any case, I think it's interesting how someone Christian like Vin was immediately focused on the "dishonesty" part (not saying that Vin is somehow unaware of different sides to it, just that this is what he has chosen to focus on,) and someone like me (an "I don't know"-person) is bothered by similar, but in the exactly reverse direction. On the other hand, I have always thought that this part is more important than what one anchors oneself to in reality/life... That is, for me not rejecting other human beings in the name of some "belief" has one of the highest values in itself (not that I cannot be a pain-in-the-ass to people: sure, but just saying that people throwing each other under the bus for some arbitrary goals just makes me morbidly depressed.) Another way: what about a question that no one probably likes to be asked. Say you have a friend, family member, whoever that you care about - what would you do given a choice between saving that person (in whatever way - from pain, from death, from something horrible,) but having to abandon faith. It's a theoretical scenario, but I think it should be mind-breaking for people who believe in god... Say, Vin has to choose between his God and Sori or Sori has to choose between her (their) God and Vin. I would like someone to answer it while being 100% honest and then think about what the consequences of that answer are... Can it be somehow reasoned about even?
Glad to see Nevermore being listened to. You guys picked a great song for your first listen. If I could recommended another song (or 2) from Nevermore, I say: Sentient 6 & The Learning. Those 2 songs are like a part 1 and part 2. There are plenty of other songs I could recommend, but I'll leave it at these 2 for now lol
Nevermore is a unicorn of a band. They are melodic, rough, brilliant technicians and dirty at the same time. Great reaction, guys! P.S. Am I the only one waiting for the Eye of Sauron in the background to explode?
You struck a quite unique band, almost created their own subgenre. They have also some of the most thought provoking lyrics, you should definetely react to Born, the first track of this album you just heard, and you can try some more Nevermore like The Seven Tongues of God, Evolution 169, Insignificant, Believe in Nothing.
Reign of darkness- Thy art is murder (music video) Land of snow and sorrow- Wintersun Carbon phrases- Alkaloid Crushed- Parkway Drive I'm gonna spam this on every video
At 48:35 .. Perhaps his lyrics to TOC (mentioned before) .. Give us some "hope" to his finale dispositions? The Lord works in mysterious ways .. Very, very -- mysterious ways .. Perhaps?
Very unique talented band. Warrel never goes death metal at all in Nevermore. The band incorporates prog, grove, thrash, traditional heavy metal and, early days, some power influence. The musicianship is top shelf. Loomis is a guitar god, up there with the, Brodericks, Freedmans, Cooleys almost Petrucci elites. Van Williams has always been a favorite of mine. He has great hands, feel, some of the strongest double bass going. He always keeps the foundation solid as does Sheppard. People always get confused with Warrel . His anger isn't from hate but from frustration.My Acid Words is a prime example of this. This Godless Endeavor is ,lyrically, up there with Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime , Blue Oyster Cult's Imaginos or Pink Floyd's Animals ....great band BTW the rapping tapping at the door was death coming for him and he welcomed it..Tell me before you slam the door" ( kill me ) " denied one last epiphany" was his way of saying tell me death,( don't deny me a/the last great understanding) what is this all about before I go to the "black unknown "
the whole nevermore discography is amazing. this song is the last song on the album, so all the other songs kind of build up to this. its tough to get through Dane's cryptic poetry. dude was a beautiful disaster.
So much to comment on.Warrel Dane as mentioned is the vocalist. His first band, Sanctuary would be where to hear his vocal range. After their first album "Refuge Denied", he toned down slightly on the high pitch singing. He possibly screwed his voice up. I can't say for sure. Dave Mustaine produced this album and played a solo on their rendition of "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane. I suggest the song "Die for my sins" if you want to react.Jeff Loomis is the guitarist on the "godless" song. He's a BEAST!!! He currently plays in Arch Enemy and I'd like to see you react to "The Eagle Flies Alone" Concept records! Greatest ever written in my opinion Queensryche "Operation Mindcrime" As for the topic of Christianity,Nihilism, and Deism I consider myself to be agnostic based on this definition. "The existence of a god can neither be proven nor disproven and its a waste of time to try. I feel we all have a belief and for me to say one is right and the other is wrong is silly. I can't validate anything a Christian or Atheist says, so why bother? I just live my life the best I can and treat everyone with the respect I feel they deserve.
This was such an interesting video. I watched it till the very end and i must say , you guys definitely did a great job on analyzing this song. Musically speaking , Nevermore was such a diverse band. Their sound took elements from power metal , progressive and thrash metal. So if you didn't really enjoy this song , don't be afraid to check out their other stuff. There is definitely something for you to enjoy. About the vocals and lyrical content , Warrel Dane , the vocalist and lyricist , was an incredible lyricist and someone with such a singular and powerful voice. Although i must admit that i find his vocals on the earlier Nevermore records to be much more genuine , in comparison with this album and the one after this that he focused more on the technical aspect of singing compare to the emotional delivery. And this album is not a concept record.. Nevermore only released one concept record that is still one of my favorites of this band , without a doubt. it's Such an emotional record , the story behind the record is based of an event in the life of Warrel Dane. You should react to "Epitaph" or "Sanctuary" by his other band Sanctuary. I'm suggesting those two songs because of the lyrical content and the fact that he used his high-pitched vocals with that band.
Actually Darwinism is more than might makes right its also about protecting kin and reproduction, passing on favorable traits, etc. Its not only the strong survive.
Not sure I agree with that. Many of the mightiest creatures to roam this planet died out, while some of the weakest survived by evading danger. Mankind is in danger of destroying it's own habitat through might and power.
It was never the "strong" survive. The strongest creatures that have ever lived are all but gone. Rather, it's the most adapted to their environment survive. Evolutionary biologists have taken to calling it "survival of the good enough". Strong predators actually act as a genetic bottleneck, which encourages rapid change. For instance, hunting spiders can drive some bugs close to extinction, leaving behind only that weirdo specimen that hibernates in intervals that are prime numbers. They can thrive out of control during the time the spiders are inactive and only take minimal losses during the common factor intervals of activity, which are far and few-between because of the prime numbers.
Strong could also mean strength in terms of disease resistance or whatever. In which case, they would have a higher probability of surviving compared to a population which is very prone to disease.
Indeed, Warrel Dane is one of my favorite vocalists (& lyricists), along with Ian Gillan, Rob Harlford, & others. He took breathing lessons & sang in a church choir with his dad when he was a lad. His voice got deeper with age (from falsetto to baritone), but he sang in the *very* high ranges in the 80's & early 90's. But his high voice was awesome, too. Listen to *Sanctuary: Future Tense,* from Into the Mirror Black (1990) -- the UA-cam vid where they're in the desert, not live. It'll show ya what he's truly capable of.
CONTINUED: This album and *Dreaming Neon Black* are my absolute favorite albums from Nevermore. Dreaming Neon Black is about Warrel's ex that went missing, later to find out she joined a cult, & was later murdered after that. He had dreams of her that he took as messages, hence the title. This is why Dreaming Neon Black was also Warrel's favorite album that he's involved in, he had said. One can "feel" the emotion in his voice in that song.
This was the song that introduced me to Nevermore and I absolutely love their music! It is interesting to hear your interpretation and reading the lyrics line by line gives a new meaning to the song. If you want something else theatrical and amazing check out Dream Theater, "In the Name of God" would be interesting for you guys I think! You guys also have to react to God Thinks, by Voltaire... You will have a LOT to talk about.
My favourite NM song by far. Some background info on Warrel Dane's stance on religion: His girlfriend at the time (late '90's) joined a Christian cult and he never saw or heard from her ever again. That's when he became very vocal and critical about religion's influence on people's lives in general, out of despair started using, had nightmares, hallucinations etc, etc and started to think in nihilistic manner. By Chinese calendar, she was born in the Year of the Dog and there is a song where he says - ''Deconstruct my reality and let me slip away, I am the dog'', hence the reference in this song. Unrelated, give a listen to Dissection - Reinkaos (whole album). For video I'd choose to record Black Dragon or God of Forbidden light.
Yes! Another favourite band of mine! I think you are on point both musically and lyrically on this. Nevermore was a very unique band. RIP Warrel Dane. This isn't a concept album but I guees there are connections with other songs. They have a concept album called"Dreaming neon black" which tells the story about an ex-girlfriend of Warrel who left him and joined a religious cult and he never heard of her again but he kept dreaming about her drowning.
Very happy you guys did this song. It is pretty epic. "Third Stone" = Earth. :) Warrel Dane (Vocalist) died in December and was a pretty phenomenal lyricists with a lot of deep thought and poetic moments. Fits with the Poe concept of "Nevermore". Jeff Loomis who is an amazing guitarist is now with Arch Enemy. (Warrel Dane now has the answers to the mysteries in this song) Warrel Dane used to go way higher in his vocals in his youth with early Sanctuary albums. He sounded a lot like Rob Halford back then. He has a huge vocal range. I like the weird inflections he puts on his vocals. He is one of my favorite vocalists. I was very sad when he died. Dreaming Neon Black is another great song, so is the Heart Collector and they don't have the insane amount of changes this one does. Hell I could keep naming songs. The Tianamen Man (about tiananmen square massacre), Poison God Machine (about tv, and media propaganda), The Sanity Assassin, and many others. #6 - I'd buy "Actually" because it is a word my youngest son said when he was 3 years old and it was very unusual to hear from such a young kid. So it has a lot of nostalgia for me. He is 22 now. Warrel was not a fan of organized religion but he was very spiritual. I consider myself a deist. The only words of God for me are written in reality. We don't believe we can define God in our language. We OBSERVE and use REASON. Jefferson, and Payne were Deists. Jefferson wrote the Jefferson Bible and removed the revelation, miracles but kept historical and moral teachings. Deists can value words, ideas, etc we simply do not treat them as dogma. To us they are the words of man trying to describe things at their time with whatever knowledge the author had. A Deist believes there is a creator/catalyst though we do not seek to define what it is. We simply observe reality and look for signs of the creator in reality itself. That is our bible. Then we simply apply reason. This means we have no priests, authority figures, etc. No one to tell you what you must believe. Yet you are encouraged to think and look for yourself. By the way Warrel Dane is definitely a thinker who seems rather spirtualistic, though he has written a lot of different songs. I do know over years of listening to him he is not a fan of existing religions. One song (Can't think which one now) he says something like "we need a new religion". He writes anti-war songs, and a lot of songs seem inspired by substances he was likely under the influence of when he wrote the songs. Yet he writes some of the deepest lyrics of anyone out there. He also did a cover of Sound of Silence. He has a great solo album also called "Praises To The War Machine". Yeah, Nevermore is one of my favorite bands. "Industrial Disease" another idea. What if it is talking about how seeking to understand becomes mass produced dogma that is dictated to you by other humans as though they have some divine authority that you do not. That could also be considered an industrial (mass produced) disease. I don't like enslaved minds. I love people to think for themselves. So I am very against trying to cookie cutter people into a mold. If you think for yourself I am happy, even if you disagree with me. Yet we are all wrong at times, and being able to be wrong is the first door that opens opportunity to learn new things. For me nothing in my perceived reality is dogma. I change my mind continuously as I encounter new information. I used to call myself an atheist/deist, but now I am very much in the deist column. I believe there was a creator/catalyst and they may or may not still be interacting. As to Jesus. Almost everything attributed to him was not actually unique to him. He appears to be an archetype and combination of many stories in religions that predated him by a long time whether it is Krishna, Horus, or many other things. I have problems with the Bible being treated as dogma when I think of Constantine (Ruler) forming the First Council of Nicea three hundred+ years after Christ and THEY decided what would become the bible. Some things ended up on the editors floor. Then there was a 2nd council of Nicea hundreds of years after that. I have a problem with human editors of the so-called "word of God". That for me is a big red flag. Though I see value in the moral teachings of things like the Sermon on the Mount. I don't need Christ to be the son of god or divine for those things to resonate and make sense to me. I also have found references to those ideas from far earlier times. Good ideas don't require force. Also part of this song appears to be a communication between two people. If you see his songs like "Brother" from his Solo album it is apparent he discusses religion with his family, and Brother talks about him losing his brother to cancer. Actually they have experiments that have shown the quantum behavior. It is actually quantum behavior and such that swayed me away from atheism and firmly into deism. It is the mysteries at the edge of infinity whether microscopic or macroscopic that are where I look and see signs of things that seem like an intelligent design. Need I say "simulation". Before you freak on "simulation". If Christianity is true that technically could still be God's "Simulation". :) As someone who codes simulations when you want to detect the simulation look to the edges of infinity. I started thinking about that and looked at the edges of infinity we have found and that firmly finally made me side on the creator/deism side. Science is a hijacked word these days. All Science truly is is the information discovered using the tool known as the scientific method. The scientific method never stops asking questions. Many people that use the term science and scientist are neither of those things as they do not follow the scientific method. The scientific method is a tool. It is designed to avoid bias. Yet many people ignore that and make arguments from authority "I'm a scientist" and then they push things that are not scientific, just their agenda and tainted bias. As to Jesus existing. The only actual historical reference to him before the Council of Nicea 300+ years after Christ was actually from Josephus 70 or so years later and it was very super vague. That doesn't mean he doesn't exist. It also doesn't mean he did. One thing that you can research and find out is that the things attributed to him actually occurred in several religions far earlier than the time of Christ. That doesn't mean he didn't exist. He could have been sharing the consolidated wisdom of the past. I won't argue that. I don't treat anything as dogma and unchangeable. I ask questions and think for myself. At to saying that is "ridiculous" to something we cannot definitively prove. That is an Appeal to The Stone fallacy. So are the statements about Joseph Smith (LDS/Mormons) and his Gold Tablets ridiculous? Are the tales of Mohammed ridiculous? What makes one religion right, and the others wrong when they demand "faith" and challenge people questioning? This is a big part of why deist like myself view written bibles as the work of man. We have problems with other humans being treated as though they somehow are super human and can dictate reality to us. We will listen, we will learn, but we will question and make up our own mind. We will make mistakes, and hopefully learn from them. I won't tell other people what reality is, and how they must act, and what they believe. For me natural law, and things like the Non-Aggression Principle serve me well. I am at peace. I wasn't at peace at all until I discovered deism as the contradiction and history as I studied religion heavily had my mind in turmoil. Deism freed me of that. Observe, and use reason. I can live with that. As to the after-life. We all will get a chance to experience that. Life is an adventure, hopefully death is a continuation of the adventure. (Single longest UA-cam comment I've ever written). A lot of ground to cover in this one. I usually save this for my @dwinblood blog on steemit.
Social Darwinism is a largely discredited ideology that was loosely based on scientific principles which were then warped by social ideologues. A minority of atheists, if any, hold to those principles and those who do are not taken seriously in modern discourse. Darwinian evolution, however, is simply the notion that allele frequencies of populations fluctuate over time as selective pressures are rung through the process of natural selection, meaning that individuals more adapted to an environment at a given time are more likely to procreate, thereby increasing the frequency of the alleles that were conducive to reproductive success in that environment. It's not so much that "the strong survive." Not sure if you meant to conflate Social Darwinism, with modern atheism, with biological evolution, but it somewhat came across that way.
Ahhhhh Nevermore, forever one of my favorite bands. R.I.P Warrel Dane.
arcanian14 he is missed. I met the man at a concert in 2007. One of the most humble guys ever
Had no idea he died. Damn. I used to love these guys several years ago. Kinda lost track of them. Jeff Loomis is still one of the best guitarists I've ever heard.
fuck he died? I did not know this! In the time of Internet, I did not get it in the news or notification from anywhere.... I grew up with Sanctuary....
+arcanian14 -- Indeed. Warrel's memorial stream got me quite emotional. And soon we'll have his posthumous farewell album, albeit quite probably not his complete vision of it.
can't believe he died and it wasn't an OD. Like WTF is the world coming to. that dude lived the rockstar life.
This song is ABSURD. Among many amazing Nevermore masterpieces, This Godless Endeavour is their magnum opus.
Warrell Dane trained for 5 years as an opera singer. Such a unique voice and a great loss to the metal world. Love me some Sanctuary and Nevermore.
I saw Nevermore on the 70,000 Tons of Metal cruise right before they disbanded. I bought Loomis a couple beers and had a good hour-long chat with him. He's such a chill dude!
R.I.P Warrel dane one of the best singers in metal
No Jeff Loomis, the guitarist you heard there, IS very special. Extremely talented. One of the modern day guitar gods. Especially and easily the best in this genre. His only peer would likely be John Petrucci. But yeah so glad you listened to them finally. The whole album is amazing. But this song is just...smh...the bomb. But I know many who don't dig Warrel Dane's vocals... And that's why they've become probably the most underestimated metal band that I can think of.
I see that. It just surprised me
i love jeff but that's a bit much. there are so many amazing guitarists out there these days, Jason Richardson, josh middleton, dave davidson, takayoshi ohmura etc. and the older generation is still unsurpassed in a lot of ways, like marty friedman, jason becker, steve vai, paul gilbert, buckethead and a few others. i absolutely love jeff's playing on the conquering dystopia album though!
guitar battles live Oh I agree that there are others. And the old guard still play just fine, including Vai, Satriani, Friedman and such like them. But Loomis is a monster and there are very few who could claim to surpass him if there are any at all during these last 20 years.
cool! i actually own jeff's signature schecter model, so i'm definently a big fan. i really miss nevermore and conquering dystopia though, the arch enemy gig doesn't do him justice:/
guitar battles live AE does his bank account justice though. Haha. Loomis is a monster player for sure.
Overall, this whole album is a masterpiece. Yes its a concept album, and explores man made doctrine (religion) vs. True sprituality vs. The human condition.
Track one (Born) is the thesis to this track.
I think you 2 will highly enjoy exploring Nevermore's material...
... A criminally underated band with GOBS of talent.
Cheers.
Brad Colman this godless endavour is fucking amazing sentient 6, my acid words, born, final product and title track is especially amazing really killer stuff on that album
Nevermore is everything but underrated. Around This Godless endeavour they were seen like something like the metal messiah.
RIP Warrel Dane. He had such a unique voice.
Seems Vin half-assumed he died due to overdose/drugs, but technically he died of a heart attack. Not that it 100% guarantees it was not due to drugs, but, well, sometimes people die from more or less "natural causes", even musicians...
This song builds so well. I love the scream at the end. Always gives me chills.
Me too!
THE SKYYYY HAS OPENED!
Warrel Dane's death was such a tremendous loss. He had such a unique vocal style and and was a brilliant songwriter. This album was my introduction to them and is still my favorite album of theirs. It's brilliant from start to finish. There isn't a bad track on it at all. Really glad you guys enjoyed this song and I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the album if you do listen to it!
Much love guys!
-Jason
Yes! So glad you did this one! Excellent! One of my all time favorites bands. Their earlier stuff was progressive heavy metal and their later stuff they started adding thrash elements into the mix. Warrel was a great singer/frontman (RIP) and Jeff Loomis is an amazing guitarist. He is in Arch Enemy now.
Warrel was graduated in filosophy, sociology, theology, was a opera singer and a chef!! Amazing legend
Nevermore - dead heart in a dead world is just as good 👍
Science isn't about blind faith; it's about evidence and demonstrability -- things you can observe and measure, not feelings that you have. Objective truths like the ones used to understand how to build a computer or cure a disease. There's a very distinct and inarguable line between science and religon, and the two should never be conflated. I feel you're judging science not objectively, but through the lens of a theist.
If you can offer concrete and measurable proof of something metaphysical then science, by its very nature, is compelled to accept it. I also feel you don't understand quantum physics. A lot of it centers around the notion that reality extends beyond out ability to perceive it, but not necessarily our ability to understand it. It stops at evidence and sound theories, and it always will. It may lead to God and it may lead to an observable multiverse. Science doesn't jump to conclusions, and it doesn't operate on faith.
As a physicist, and not a native english speaker, thanks for that comment. You put some words on things I would like to be able to express myself in these comments :P
Thanks for articulating this, my mind was going faster than I could type. :)
I agree, but some things we call science--as in having proof--seems more like what you're calling blind faith. Like evolutionary theory (to a theist, of course). And from a biblical standpoint, faith is simply trusting and believing what cannot be seen. This doesn't make it "blind". It just makes it faith.
I'm hesitant to respond because I don't want to come across as belligerent towards religion, but the difference between faith in science and blind faith is evidence; there's oceans and oceans concrete evidence of evolution, even in our own bodies. Evidence of God comes from writings and word of mouth, not tangible evidence.
I'm not trying to say it's wrong or anything, I just really think the difference between educated scientific theories and religious faith is the foundation of science itself. We demonstrate laws and principles in classroom settings, we can watch surgeries and dissect animals and study fossils. I don't "believe" (I use the term believe because I find certainty to be toxic) in evolution because I read about it in a book; I "believe" in evolution because I've SEEN how connected and similar we all are.
Did you know that, once we got on land, we pretty much all just started rearranging parts and otherwise stayed the same? Parts of the jaws in reptiles (which they still have) shifted in mammals, and now they help us hear. That's why we have the incus, the malleus, and the stapes and they only have the stapes. We just shifted it over and used it for something else. You probably already know that snakes had two functional lungs, but one became vestigial to accommodate their increasingly slender bodies. I've seen these things, physically. That's why I "believe in them." Not because I read it in a book or a pastor told me.
Well, I am usually just put-off by the word "blind" when used next to faith. But I get why most people say it like that. And while I do agree with some things in evolutionary theory, some of it still seems more like a possible (or probable) narrative than hard truth. But in general, I'm also trying not disrespect science or the pursuit of evidence. Much respect~
"The third stone" = The third stone from the sun (also a song by Jimi Hendrix) = Planet Earth
Death - Without Judgement
Cynic - How Could I
YES YES YES!!!
I adore this band. Warrel Dane was an interesting fellow. I remember an interview he did where he talked about his being terrified of technology and it's horrible possibilities. He also said that, though he didn't believe in God, he was terrified at the idea there wasn't one. I'm a believer myself, but I always found his honesty refreshing. I've found it rare for atheists to talk about their fears or doubts; a lack of introspection, if you will.
This video helped me reconcile some issues I've had with my faith. Thank you so much for that 😁
Yes just as there’s things that Christians “aren’t allowed” to discuss, the same is true for them
As an atheist, I'd say you are wrong assuming the fear of death is a taboo. I think we are all equal in that regard. I think most people don't like to think about it tbh. But what's even more terrifying to us is the prospect of loosing the people we love cause we have to accept that once they're gone, they're gone forever.
I must say, it starts to bother me that people even talk about Christians, atheists, etc. and then someone has to read statements like "I've found it rare for atheists to talk about their fears or doubts; a lack of introspection, if you will." I realize I have done similar in the past (extrapolate too far looking at some specific groups of people,) probably less recently, but... I remember when I was young (say 6yo,) I would interact with children my age ("the ones on the other side of the garden face") and everything was fine until, later, adults would shove into my head ideas like "they are dirty Gypsies", "this one does not believe in God", etc. It just makes me angry when I think about it... and all this talk about atheists this, Christians that on a bad day just makes me depressed in the worst possible way.
@DisapprovingStare Bear: Hope that you don't read the above as something directed specifically towards you - it isn't. It's just general thought I often have that surfaced when reading the comment section. It happens both ways, from all "sides" ("Christians" "non Christians"), but... I don't see/recognize/acknowledge the sides themselves; I cannot see much good they do... except within the created groups, maybe, possibly, doubtfully. To put it another way: you may think that what you wrote is only about specific group of people, but, is it? You wrote "I've found it rare for atheists [...] a lack of introspection"... However, "atheist" is going to be understood differently, by different people. For some it's being "against religion", for others "not believing in God", and so on. Yes, one can look up more specific definitions and find 100 different variations on this theme, say "militant atheism", "agnostic atheism" (I can add random words to atheism and it will probably make sense to someone somewhere...) So what's even the point... Is introspection rare for the rest of humanity? I would say that everyone is capable of introspection and it has nothing to do with being Christian, "atheist" or living in a cold climate (well, I am more likely to see some correlations there, to be honest {less sun, more time indoors, more chance to be alone...}... but that's kind of a point.)
As to the fear of technology. I find it meaningless. "Fear is the mind killer": you can fear spiders, God, punishment by God, anger of God, existence of God, non-existence of God, punishment by Satan, being abandoned by Satan, car accidents, close-spaces... you can even fear feeling fear... Logically, fear is there so people are not fearless and do not do stupid things like test if fighting a lion bare-handed is a good idea. It's a tool/resource, unless you let it control you - then it's a burden that diminishes you as human being. Master the fear... fight it, use it as a tool - seems like a logical goal to me, instead of giving up...
Leeloo Minai I suppose I should have been more specific; what I had in my head when I wrote that was the large number of UA-cam atheists I've seen, as well as a few that I know personally, who only want to debate the subject rather than just talk openly about it. I didn't at all mean that atheists in general aren't introspective. I believe the vast majority of Christians (again, in my experience) have a huge problem with introspection. I can't approximate the number, but I think many people, including myself, struggle with it in general. Most of the time I claim to be introspective myself, I'm probably not being completely honest.
RIP Warrel Dane! In my top 10 of vocalists of all time! Great reaction guys! Nevermore is another band that changed my perception and made me love music even more.There are so many songs by this band that would blow your mind lyrically and music wise.If you guys do a full album by Nevermore do Dreaming Neon Black.It’s a bit conceptual as it deals with Warrel writing about the death of one of his friends that he loved dearly
Steven Wilson- The raven that refused to sing
Yes! Do this! It's beautiful.........
Watch the video and bring tissues.
This was a treat. Nevermore is one of the most underrated band ever,
I just found you guys a few days ago and this has become one of my favorite "react" channels. You guys get into discussing the lyrics and trying to break it down and it's pretty fun to observe you guys do that.
Sweet! Welcome! -Sori✌🏻
Just found this channel. Very interesting breakdown on a band I’ve listened to for a very long time. To get a real sense of what lyricist, Warrel Dane, is getting at, might I suggest going through the whole album? Dane is arguably one of the best lyricists in Metal. The album touches on everything from commercialism intertwined with religion, politics and even into AI.
Super interesting that you’re doing this channel. I’ll have to look at the behemoth one
One of my favorite songs by Never more is The River Dragon Comes This Way - Warrel Dane wrote this song as a political message about the natural disaster which resulted from building of the Three Gorges Dam in China. Warrel Dane was another great voice in Metal which was cut too short.
3:46 - ADVISE: First ever Jeff Loomis contact often cause you facial distortion
Really happy seeing you react to Neveremore. I love the Way Warrel Dane sings because it sounds cold and almost cruel in the way he sings, which normally are pretty dark songs about the state of the world, hope is not a common thing in their work they almost always alert us to things. Other musics form them like Born or Final Product from this same album or The Passenger from an early album, are only a few of the examples of that cold view of the world where in my opinion his voice fits so well. It's a shame Warrel Dane is no longer among us.
As a Scientist I have more and more the idea that the best Science can ever do is saying: For now there is no (physical) proof of a major being. I don't think Science will ever be able to categorically deny anything. I once use to think maybe one day Science might do it, But the longer I am in the area the more I start to doubt it. Cause everytime one of the universe's mysteries is solved or understood lots of others appear, together with some fundamental quests that will never be fulfilled like the idea of beginning and ending. In Science there will never be possible to define a start and a finish to the universe, cause even thinking of Big Bang there will always exist the question: what exixted before teh Big Bang, what caused it's expansion. There will always be points Science will not be able to solve on it's own, now if the answer is in theology or in the idea that Humanity may need to understand at a point somethings can't be exaplined? I honestly don't know.
finally and knowing that Probably the majority of people don't even know this project, but I think Witherscape's Marionette would fit pretty well in this underground show
Just finally! Im glad that you did it.
I would suggest you White Walls by Between The Buried And Me next.
As always great video and I love to hear your outlook on things musically/life related! Thanks so much for all you do!
6! Love how you guys dissect the songs and critique the musicianship and lyricism. Never listened to Nevermore before, thanks for the introduction.
My goodness I just commented on the Black Sabbath video saying how I requested that and it happened and I’m sure I either requested this too or just in my head was really wanting y’all to react to this song and all of the greatness that is Jeff Loomis, as well as the lyrics of the song too. My lucky day right here. Can’t wait to watch it when I go back home
and for me that is the biggest beauty of life to always ask questions and be curius
i went to high school and hung out with these guys. wally the vocalist was trained by the same vocal teacher as geoff tate of queensryche. the name NEVERMORE is a play to the band changing their name a an already established act as SANCTUARY. opening shows stating that sanctuary was nevermore.
My favorite review of yours so far! Your dissection it's perfect for Loomis' songwriting and I'm glad you guys enjoyed this masterpiece. Please do more Nevermore! Perhaps either I Voyager, Sentient 6, or Dreaming Neon Black.
Ya it was deep!! Thank you for enduring for the hour !
It has been said a few times, but if you guys want to explore a concept record, Queensrÿche - Operation: Mindcrime is definitely an amazing one to check out.
bmfan
Also, Seventh son of the seventh son by Iron Maiden.
American Idiot by Green Day
The Wall by Pink Floyd
Scenes from a memory by Dream Theater
Any king diamond album
Steven Wilson- Hand cannot erase
Mindcrime is incredible! I remember being in the 5th grade, having a bad flu, and listing to this in my bed all night on my headphones. Speaking of which, I need to go listen to it again... been a while.
Yes, Scenes from a memory.
One of my favourite albums 🤘 awesome pick
Yeah not sure they will like Geoff Tate's vocals. Could be wrong there but yeah I agree, its a great concept album.
Stumbled upon this vid while searching one of my all-time favorite songs. I'm not Christian or "religious", (but I consider myself as a somewhat spiritual atheist if that makes any sense), but I was honestly flabbergasted by how thorough, open-minded and thoughtful this analysis was :) Great job!
Yay! You finally did it!
First up: this is not a concept record. Nevermore did one. It's called *Dreaming Neon Black* and it's brilliant. Also, if you'd like to do one, I'd recommend *Ayreon* - *The Human Equation* . But be prepared for a thing that resembles a musical more than a traditional "album" ;)
Sori is spot on about the theatrical element of Warrel's vocals. The man was indeed classically trained. And yepp, he went "up there". He listed Halford as one of his main influences, and in his early days with his band Sanctuary, he was singing EXTREMELY high, which is strange because he's actually a fairly low Baritone. The man's vocal range was insane. If you're into that kind of thing, I recommend comparing his vocals in *Sanctuary* - *Battle Angels* with the first verse in *Lucretia My Reflection* off Warrel's solo record (a Sisters of Mercy cover). I don't know musical theory, so I can't tell you how many octaves that is, but it seems A LOT :D
Warrel has a more aggresive side and on *Born* he does a few growl-like vocals. He's also one of those singers who can sound really pissed off without screaming. But in general, he's a very clean singer, which throws a lot of people off, because musically, Nevermore is pretty darn heavy!
Cool to see Vin picking up on the Poe reference. Warrel was an admirer of Poe's writing. Their second full length album *The Politics of Ecstacy* is also shortened to POE, which was deliberate. The band name is also a reference to the end of their former band Sanctuary (which was revived a few years ago). Warrel, Jim Sheppard (bass) and Jeff Loomis (guitar), who were all in Sanctuary at the time formed Nevermore. During their early shows they used to introduce themselves with the cheeky little phrase "Sanctuary is Nevermore".
The drug reference is also interesting. Warrel was very interested in Timothy Leary's philosophy (a song on their first record is actually named after the man). I don't know if he ever did those kinds of drugs himself, but he was struggling with alcoholism. In general, whenever I've seen interviews with him that touched on his world view, he seemd like a very torn, troubled soul to me. He considered himself agnostic, with tendencies towards nihilism, but quite a few of his lyrics show a struggle to just understand the harsh side of our world, that "concept of god" he's referencing here, and the (for him) impossibility to do so. But he also gave away the impression that he was VERY concerned about the world, which is why I wouldn't call him a "true" nihilist. It just seems that he was on the verge of truly losing hope, but still grasping at some of it. I think that is expressed very strongly in their song *A Future Uncertain* off the same record. That entire song is a mixture of questioning why we do all the evil that we do and prophecy about impending doom if we don't manage to change our ways.
Overall a very interesting human being who was sadly taken too soon. Here is la link to one of the most interesting interviews I've seen with him (there's also a 2. part where they talk about some of his lyrics):
ua-cam.com/video/b_h-8b0d1sM/v-deo.html
For more very interesting songs (and lyrics) here's a few recommendations:
*Deconstruction* (some of the scariest, yet evocative lyrics I've ever heard. that song is PROPERLY dark)
*The Learning* + *Sentient 6* (an ongoing story about artificial intelligence)
*Insignificant*
*Enemies of Reality*
PS: sorry for the wall of text, but this band is dear to me. Couldn't help myself...
Don't be ashamed about the "wall post." It's almost impossible not to go on a huge lecture when describing Nevermore to someone who has never experienced the epicness that is, NEVERMORE.
The lyrics are about a Science based faith guy suddenly faced with death and trying to decide between God or Science. SOmething like that. Warrel is a master lyricist and vocalist. Looking forward to your breakdown of these lyrics. Warrel died thi spast December ...very sad loss for the Metal community. I think you will like the rest of that album as well and there album that followed...The Obsidian Conspiracy.
Love you too man, both of you. And I only just found you. I'll probably construct an email for you at some point after I catch up on your channel... Looks like I'm late yet again.
I did a quick parsing of your videos to see what you've reacted to so far.
As I listened to your discussion a couple songs came to mind that seem to be right up your alley:
Blinded Colony - Aaron's Sons
Dimmu Borgir - Blessings Upon the Throne of Tyranny
Never thought I'd see such a discussion on UA-cam. You guys have incredible dynamic perspectives. This is good, keep it up.
You guys are great. I love the reactions from both of you!
Awesome video guys. I love Nevermore back in 2005 I was 12 listening to this album R.I.P Warrel Dane.
You two are real Christians. I feel like I stopped believing in the “church” years ago. Too many fake people that pretended to not live in the same world as the rest of us. My problem with religion was always with people and not with God but they always made me feel like my problem was with him. Thank you for showing me that I’m not the only one.... God is love, man is flawed. All we need is love, I can’t say I’ll ever go back to a church but I know deep down what the divine is...
I'm with you !
Rodolfo Cedillo Agreed!!
Great video like always! I really enjoy watching your videos!
If you want concept albums, King Diamond has many. He has high vocals but they are very operatic and otherworldly, and he changes his voice to suit different characters. you might grow to appreciate them. I would do Abigail, Them, or The Puppet Master.
Josh Grooves oh yeah, King Diamond, must be done.
Yeah, right... When I was younger, yes, King Diamond - not a problem, the musicians were great, lots of fun, but considering how Sori had to "rewire" her brain so that Judas Priest-like high-pitch inserts are not off-putting, I am afraid King Diamond would end up as a disaster. Also, lyrics are pretty much light/dark horror-like stories, so I don't know... I somehow cannot imagine Vin analyzing them with straight face. There are many "religious" elements, but it's all done for entertainment, not really to be "deep".
Yeah, that's why I was thinking maybe in the future if they get accustomed to those type of vocals. And true they would have to judge the story based on entertainment and not so seriously, just like watching a horror movie or reading a horror novel. I think it would be a fun experience personally.
I guess I agree, they may not be ready quite yet for the King.
Absolutely. Abigail has been my favorite album of all time since it came out.
makes me tear up every time and i don't know why... masterpiece is a small word to describe this song..
That main slow riff is one of the best metal riffs that has ever been, or will ever be written. And I don’t even mention the rest of the song! I get emotional every time I listen to this song.
People underestimate that solo. Sweep picking like that for an entire minute is fucking insane
nevermore live''what tomorrow knows-garden grey''
Thanks for doing this song. I also requested it. So many great tunes from this band you could delve into. This is definitely a band you could do an entire album "listening" and be blown away by their musical depth and Warrel's incredible lyrics. Maybe something good for down the road. There's plenty of killer metal out there to explore but Nevermore is truly a special, unique band that deserves to be picked apart so eloquently by people like you. Warrel would never really tell what most of his songs were about and liked for listeners to figure it out for themselves. There's a lot more going on beneath the surface of his lyrics...and it's backed by some truly phenomenal music.
Thanks for giving it some attention.
I have newfound appreciation for Nevermore because of this video. RIP to the vocalist.
Opeth - Demon of the Fall
Great reaction! Sori is right, 'unique' is definitely the best word to describe Nevermore. Can't wait for your reaction to the song, Born. Subscribed!
This is how a song reaction video should be done in my opinion. Thanks Vin and Sori for being awesome! Please please please if you have the time you should consider reacting to Nevermore's "Sentient 6"...personally it's my favorite Nevermore song with "This Godless Endeavor" as a close 2nd. Thanks again! :-)
Nevermore was the very first show my brother took me to when we moved to Canada years ago! They'll always have a special place in my heart. My favorite of theirs is an oldie; Dead Heart in a Dead World! RIP Warrel \m/
ACTUALLY that called
*_T R V E M E T A L_*
My Dying Bride - Catherine Blake
you guys comment on Warrell Dane's vocals, but this is his style. he was a classically trained opera vocalist, and Jeff Loomis is a classically trained guitarist. the next best song would be something like Dreaming Neon Black or The Heart Collector. His voice was filled to the brim with a sort of manic sadness.
Am I right? Did he die?
Yes, he died of a heart attack in december 2017 :-(
yeah he's been dead for a while. there's a video of his memorial service on youtube.
Emptiness Unobstructed or The Sanity Assassin are also great songs from them.
Dreaming Neon Black & Heart Collector... Right on the nail brother Matt Gallow. I salute you, and so does Dane from the beyond. I'm Danish btw so I may be biased. ;-)
My read of this song is that he's searched for his answers in science, then in music, then in drugs, and finally in religion, and nothing seals the aching wounds in his soul. He looks into the chaos of the world, and how awful people can be to each other, and feels madness looming for him, the hopelessness of death without any answers or peace that he could use to comfort himself. If I were to speak to that character, that person, I'd relate the following: Every day, every hour, we decide how we will interact with the world. We can't control anything but ourselves, and what we choose to add to this sphere of being. Will we seek out the things that bring us joy, that add beauty to the world, the things that enrich others and ourselves? Will we concentrate upon what we love, or what we hate? Will we be harsh and cruel to others and ourselves, or will we show kindness and true appreciation for the wonders of our world and those who accompany us on this journey? It's easy to concentrate on the one dropped stitch in a beautiful tapestry, but it's ultimately a self-defeating methodology for life. Nothing can give you peace if you don't think you deserve it. Nothing can save you unless you want to be saved. Whether the mechanism of your salvation is a stick of wood as you hike through the mountain trails, or a guitar, or a book, or the slow churning of the waters of the ocean, you can find it, if you allow yourself to do so. That's what I'd say.
Check out Warrel Dane's solo album "Praises To The War Machine" especially the tracks "Brother", "Chosen Misery" and "This Old Man"...
I also recommend the following songs with his two bands:
Nevermore - Emptiness Unobstructed
Nevermore - No More Will
Nevermore - Believe In Nothing
Nevermore - The Heart Collector
Nevermore - Matricide
Nevermore - Forever
Nevermore - Dreaming Neon Black
Nevermore - Born
Nevermore - Enemies Of Reality
Sanctuary - Let The Serpent Follow Me
Sanctuary - I Am Low
Sanctuary - Future Tense
Sanctuary - Frozen
Sanctuary - Battle Angel
Sanctuary - Die For My Sins
Nevermore was my very first band that got me into metal music and i'm so sad since the band's split up because of Warrel Dane's death, Great choice and great review guys !
I'll admit, it's very rare to see "Christians" listen to music made by atheists and anti-theists like myself. It's very important to allow yourself to experience a natural reaction to music, regardless the genre or artist's disposition.
6. Akshually, the technique is called sweeping. You sweep (not strum) the strings while in sequence muting/unmuting single strings.
Amazing song and great analysis from both of you, thanks. new sub.
Another song that continues to pound the term" Beast" into our heads! Metal will never be the same. Nevermore .
Guitarist Jeff Loomis revealed in an interview that This Godless Endeavor is not a concept album but a "topic-to-topic" album, with all the songs dealing with "real life issues" that can "allegorically refer to the loss of identity, the system that we roove in, the meaning of life, the denouncement of God as a solution to all the problems that are caused by the conflicts that all the religions have initiated in various parts of the world. It's basically about human beings."
Found that on wiki.
Otep = tric
Mushroomhead = sun doesn't rise
Metal church = fake healer
Moonspell = butterfly fx
Warrel Dane has formed the band Sanctuary in the middle 80's. They released two incredible albums. In these albums you can hear how incredilbe was the range of his voice. When they split up, Warrel with Jim Sheppard (the bass player of Sanctuary) and the master guitarist and composer Jeff Loomis, formed Nevermore. Nevermore was in my opinion the best heavy metal band from the day they were born 'til today. Warrel was an authentic artist (genius lyricist, magnificent performer and he had a blessed voice).You should check out the song ''Sentient 6'' (live video) to realize what the word true artist means.
R.I.P. Warrel Dane... ONE OF THE GREATEST vocalist that ever lived!
On Concept records, you should do Cradle of Filth - Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder.
Interesting lyrics and story to go along with it.
Also I love that you mentioned Issues, everything is so interwoven and flows so well. It's my favorite from them.
Actually... lol. Atheism and Nihilism are not synonymous. I can see why you would think so based on your world view. But, yea it’s me again, atheist only have to share a lack of belief in a god to be atheist. I am an atheist but definitely do not consider my self nihilistic. I don’t think life is meaningless. It has meaning to everyone. I don’t think morals are prescriptive I think they are realized through empathy and insight. I’m a long time vegan and extend the meaning of life way farther than theists.
Of course I didn’t say all atheists were nihilists... I said the most thoughtful ones were... at least in the literature they put out. And no that’s not a low-key diss. Lewis, aquinas, and Augustine are the most thoughtful Christians I’ll happily admit
Might I ask what you mean by your last sentence? Are you meaning that most theists aren't vegan, therefore not respecting or understanding how precious life is? Or do you mean that they don't respect life because they don't take it seriously, living like their lives are temporary? I'm not at all trying to start a debate, just honestly curious 😁
Lots of people doesn't understand what Nihilism is about. It's not just 'Nothing has any value', it's the rejection of the grander value we put on ourselves as humans.
DisapprovingStare Bear I believe veganism to be the moral baseline. I see all earthlings as deserving of life and our current situation on the planet doesn’t necessitate our use of them anymore. The Bible states that animals were put here specifically for our use. It justifies almost anything you want to do to them. Basically I see veganism as morally superior and propose that as a friendly challenge to theists who believe that morals can only come from divine prescription.
VinAnd Sori What do you think of the moral contemporary Atheist thinkers like Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Daniel Dennet? I would say they are right up there with Bertrand Russel and I wouldn’t consider any of them as nihilistic.
This album is a masterpiece!!! 🔥🤘🏽
OK, my day is made. I almost danced on my chair seeing the title of this video, and now, well, I guess here goes 1 hour from my life...
... and 1 hour later. I want to avoid the usual wall of text (... good luck), so, I only want to focus of how Vin was interpreting/reacting to this verse:
Thou shalt not question
The role of science is not
To eliminate God
As alternative Gods multiply
Science stands accused of theocide
This led Vin to concentrate on how some/many people belittle religious people (mock them,) and put scientists on the pedestal. Which is true, happens, but the text itself can as well just be read differently and more directly.
I think that "The role of science is not To eliminate God" should sound true to many scientists, nerds, "agnostics", etc. Myself I just read it like that - with no sarcasm, no double-meaning... In fact, the only part that I feel could be a bit sarcastic would be the first verse: "Thou shalt not question": I think the author could be addressing this to the religious people (using Bible-like archaic language and turning it around towards them) who are convinced that science somehow is there to disprove the existence of god. I have seen/read many "believers" project this assumption on those who simply admit that they don't know if god exists and choose to live their lives exploring science, technology, etc. It almost seems like there's a need to discredit the honesty of the "I don't know"-people. This makes me wonder why... is it such a strange scenario? How is it stranger than believing in Jesus, Bible, etc.? I understand the value of faith, how it helps many people to make sense of the word, deal with fear, loss, etc., but turning it against people who also have to deal with fear, seek a sense in existence, want to help humanity, but just have their brains wired in a way that does not accept non-facts as the explanation for reality... why? What is the purpose of it? Is it being pro-god or against-human?
In any case, I think it's interesting how someone Christian like Vin was immediately focused on the "dishonesty" part (not saying that Vin is somehow unaware of different sides to it, just that this is what he has chosen to focus on,) and someone like me (an "I don't know"-person) is bothered by similar, but in the exactly reverse direction. On the other hand, I have always thought that this part is more important than what one anchors oneself to in reality/life... That is, for me not rejecting other human beings in the name of some "belief" has one of the highest values in itself (not that I cannot be a pain-in-the-ass to people: sure, but just saying that people throwing each other under the bus for some arbitrary goals just makes me morbidly depressed.)
Another way: what about a question that no one probably likes to be asked. Say you have a friend, family member, whoever that you care about - what would you do given a choice between saving that person (in whatever way - from pain, from death, from something horrible,) but having to abandon faith. It's a theoretical scenario, but I think it should be mind-breaking for people who believe in god... Say, Vin has to choose between his God and Sori or Sori has to choose between her (their) God and Vin. I would like someone to answer it while being 100% honest and then think about what the consequences of that answer are... Can it be somehow reasoned about even?
Glad to see Nevermore being listened to. You guys picked a great song for your first listen. If I could recommended another song (or 2) from Nevermore, I say: Sentient 6 & The Learning. Those 2 songs are like a part 1 and part 2. There are plenty of other songs I could recommend, but I'll leave it at these 2 for now lol
Nevermore is a unicorn of a band. They are melodic, rough, brilliant technicians and dirty at the same time.
Great reaction, guys!
P.S. Am I the only one waiting for the Eye of Sauron in the background to explode?
You struck a quite unique band, almost created their own subgenre. They have also some of the most thought provoking lyrics, you should definetely react to Born, the first track of this album you just heard, and you can try some more Nevermore like The Seven Tongues of God, Evolution 169, Insignificant, Believe in Nothing.
Cheers from Portugal!
Also RIP to the singer, Warrel, He passed away Dec 2017
Reign of darkness- Thy art is murder (music video)
Land of snow and sorrow- Wintersun
Carbon phrases- Alkaloid
Crushed- Parkway Drive
I'm gonna spam this on every video
Check out their cover on Sound of Silence. They made it more like their own song than a normal cover.
Nevermore....the inquiry poetry and the magnificent music....
I love you for doing this band and song! JEFF LOOMIS.... Dane, RIP.
At 48:35 ..
Perhaps his lyrics to TOC (mentioned before) ..
Give us some "hope" to his finale dispositions?
The Lord works in mysterious ways ..
Very, very -- mysterious ways ..
Perhaps?
Very unique talented band. Warrel never goes death metal at all in Nevermore. The band incorporates prog, grove, thrash, traditional heavy metal and, early days, some power influence. The musicianship is top shelf. Loomis is a guitar god, up there with the, Brodericks, Freedmans, Cooleys almost Petrucci elites. Van Williams has always been a favorite of mine. He has great hands, feel, some of the strongest double bass going. He always keeps the foundation solid as does Sheppard. People always get confused with Warrel . His anger isn't from hate but from frustration.My Acid Words is a prime example of this. This Godless Endeavor is ,lyrically, up there with Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime , Blue Oyster Cult's Imaginos or Pink Floyd's Animals ....great band BTW the rapping tapping at the door was death coming for him and he welcomed it..Tell me before you slam the door" ( kill me ) " denied one last epiphany" was his way of saying tell me death,( don't deny me a/the last great understanding) what is this all about before I go to the "black unknown "
MORE NEVERMORE PLEASE (NICE REACTION VINAND SORI)
You may be interested to know that Warrell Dane featured in a Behemoth song actually. The song is called 'Inner Sanctum' and it's quite good!
#6 Sign me up! 🤣🤣🤣 Great reaction as usual. I really liked this one!
The River Dragon is also a solid tune by them.
the whole nevermore discography is amazing. this song is the last song on the album, so all the other songs kind of build up to this. its tough to get through Dane's cryptic poetry. dude was a beautiful disaster.
So much to comment on.Warrel Dane as mentioned is the vocalist. His first band, Sanctuary would be where to hear his vocal range. After their first album "Refuge Denied", he toned down slightly on the high pitch singing. He possibly screwed his voice up. I can't say for sure. Dave Mustaine produced this album and played a solo on their rendition of "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane. I suggest the song "Die for my sins" if you want to react.Jeff Loomis is the guitarist on the "godless" song. He's a BEAST!!! He currently plays in Arch Enemy and I'd like to see you react to "The Eagle Flies Alone"
Concept records! Greatest ever written in my opinion Queensryche "Operation Mindcrime"
As for the topic of Christianity,Nihilism, and Deism I consider myself to be agnostic based on this definition. "The existence of a god can neither be proven nor disproven and its a waste of time to try. I feel we all have a belief and for me to say one is right and the other is wrong is silly. I can't validate anything a Christian or Atheist says, so why bother? I just live my life the best I can and treat everyone with the respect I feel they deserve.
This was such an interesting video. I watched it till the very end and i must say , you guys definitely did a great job on analyzing this song.
Musically speaking , Nevermore was such a diverse band. Their sound took elements from power metal , progressive and thrash metal. So if you didn't really enjoy this song , don't be afraid to check out their other stuff.
There is definitely something for you to enjoy.
About the vocals and lyrical content , Warrel Dane , the vocalist and lyricist , was an incredible lyricist and someone with such a singular and powerful voice. Although i must admit that i find his vocals on the earlier Nevermore records to be much more genuine , in comparison with this album and the one after this that he focused more on the technical aspect of singing compare to the emotional delivery.
And this album is not a concept record.. Nevermore only released one concept record that is still one of my favorites of this band , without a doubt. it's Such an emotional record , the story behind the record is based of an event in the life of Warrel Dane.
You should react to "Epitaph" or "Sanctuary" by his other band Sanctuary. I'm suggesting those two songs because of the lyrical content and the fact that he used his high-pitched vocals with that band.
Actually Darwinism is more than might makes right its also about protecting kin and reproduction, passing on favorable traits, etc. Its not only the strong survive.
It’s not less than that though ..
Not sure I agree with that. Many of the mightiest creatures to roam this planet died out, while some of the weakest survived by evading danger. Mankind is in danger of destroying it's own habitat through might and power.
A C T C U A L L Y
It was never the "strong" survive. The strongest creatures that have ever lived are all but gone.
Rather, it's the most adapted to their environment survive. Evolutionary biologists have taken to calling it "survival of the good enough". Strong predators actually act as a genetic bottleneck, which encourages rapid change. For instance, hunting spiders can drive some bugs close to extinction, leaving behind only that weirdo specimen that hibernates in intervals that are prime numbers. They can thrive out of control during the time the spiders are inactive and only take minimal losses during the common factor intervals of activity, which are far and few-between because of the prime numbers.
Strong could also mean strength in terms of disease resistance or whatever. In which case, they would have a higher probability of surviving compared to a population which is very prone to disease.
The singer Warrel Dane died recently and the guitarist is now in a band called Archenemy.
Indeed, Warrel Dane is one of my favorite vocalists (& lyricists), along with Ian Gillan, Rob Harlford, & others. He took breathing lessons & sang in a church choir with his dad when he was a lad. His voice got deeper with age (from falsetto to baritone), but he sang in the *very* high ranges in the 80's & early 90's. But his high voice was awesome, too. Listen to *Sanctuary: Future Tense,* from Into the Mirror Black (1990) -- the UA-cam vid where they're in the desert, not live. It'll show ya what he's truly capable of.
CONTINUED: This album and *Dreaming Neon Black* are my absolute favorite albums from Nevermore. Dreaming Neon Black is about Warrel's ex that went missing, later to find out she joined a cult, & was later murdered after that.
He had dreams of her that he took as messages, hence the title. This is why Dreaming Neon Black was also Warrel's favorite album that he's involved in, he had said. One can "feel" the emotion in his voice in that song.
Sentient 6 is my favorite
Awesome video. I would love to see a Cattle Decapitation review.
If you do another Nevermore reaction, it should be "All the Cowards Hide"!
This was the song that introduced me to Nevermore and I absolutely love their music! It is interesting to hear your interpretation and reading the lyrics line by line gives a new meaning to the song.
If you want something else theatrical and amazing check out Dream Theater, "In the Name of God" would be interesting for you guys I think!
You guys also have to react to God Thinks, by Voltaire... You will have a LOT to talk about.
My favourite NM song by far. Some background info on Warrel Dane's stance on religion: His girlfriend at the time (late '90's) joined a Christian cult and he never saw or heard from her ever again. That's when he became very vocal and critical about religion's influence on people's lives in general, out of despair started using, had nightmares, hallucinations etc, etc and started to think in nihilistic manner. By Chinese calendar, she was born in the Year of the Dog and there is a song where he says - ''Deconstruct my reality and let me slip away, I am the dog'', hence the reference in this song.
Unrelated, give a listen to Dissection - Reinkaos (whole album). For video I'd choose to record Black Dragon or God of Forbidden light.
30:01....Bless you....I FINALLY stayed to the end!!!! yay...good for me..............
Rest in Peace, Warrel. One of the best metal records ever!
Yes! Another favourite band of mine! I think you are on point both musically and lyrically on this. Nevermore was a very unique band. RIP Warrel Dane. This isn't a concept album but I guees there are connections with other songs. They have a concept album called"Dreaming neon black" which tells the story about an ex-girlfriend of Warrel who left him and joined a religious cult and he never heard of her again but he kept dreaming about her drowning.
My favorite nevermore and favorite metal song of all time
Very happy you guys did this song. It is pretty epic. "Third Stone" = Earth. :) Warrel Dane (Vocalist) died in December and was a pretty phenomenal lyricists with a lot of deep thought and poetic moments. Fits with the Poe concept of "Nevermore". Jeff Loomis who is an amazing guitarist is now with Arch Enemy. (Warrel Dane now has the answers to the mysteries in this song) Warrel Dane used to go way higher in his vocals in his youth with early Sanctuary albums. He sounded a lot like Rob Halford back then. He has a huge vocal range. I like the weird inflections he puts on his vocals. He is one of my favorite vocalists. I was very sad when he died. Dreaming Neon Black is another great song, so is the Heart Collector and they don't have the insane amount of changes this one does. Hell I could keep naming songs. The Tianamen Man (about tiananmen square massacre), Poison God Machine (about tv, and media propaganda), The Sanity Assassin, and many others. #6 - I'd buy "Actually" because it is a word my youngest son said when he was 3 years old and it was very unusual to hear from such a young kid. So it has a lot of nostalgia for me. He is 22 now. Warrel was not a fan of organized religion but he was very spiritual. I consider myself a deist. The only words of God for me are written in reality. We don't believe we can define God in our language. We OBSERVE and use REASON. Jefferson, and Payne were Deists. Jefferson wrote the Jefferson Bible and removed the revelation, miracles but kept historical and moral teachings. Deists can value words, ideas, etc we simply do not treat them as dogma. To us they are the words of man trying to describe things at their time with whatever knowledge the author had. A Deist believes there is a creator/catalyst though we do not seek to define what it is. We simply observe reality and look for signs of the creator in reality itself. That is our bible. Then we simply apply reason. This means we have no priests, authority figures, etc. No one to tell you what you must believe. Yet you are encouraged to think and look for yourself. By the way Warrel Dane is definitely a thinker who seems rather spirtualistic, though he has written a lot of different songs. I do know over years of listening to him he is not a fan of existing religions. One song (Can't think which one now) he says something like "we need a new religion". He writes anti-war songs, and a lot of songs seem inspired by substances he was likely under the influence of when he wrote the songs. Yet he writes some of the deepest lyrics of anyone out there. He also did a cover of Sound of Silence. He has a great solo album also called "Praises To The War Machine". Yeah, Nevermore is one of my favorite bands. "Industrial Disease" another idea. What if it is talking about how seeking to understand becomes mass produced dogma that is dictated to you by other humans as though they have some divine authority that you do not. That could also be considered an industrial (mass produced) disease. I don't like enslaved minds. I love people to think for themselves. So I am very against trying to cookie cutter people into a mold. If you think for yourself I am happy, even if you disagree with me. Yet we are all wrong at times, and being able to be wrong is the first door that opens opportunity to learn new things. For me nothing in my perceived reality is dogma. I change my mind continuously as I encounter new information. I used to call myself an atheist/deist, but now I am very much in the deist column. I believe there was a creator/catalyst and they may or may not still be interacting. As to Jesus. Almost everything attributed to him was not actually unique to him. He appears to be an archetype and combination of many stories in religions that predated him by a long time whether it is Krishna, Horus, or many other things. I have problems with the Bible being treated as dogma when I think of Constantine (Ruler) forming the First Council of Nicea three hundred+ years after Christ and THEY decided what would become the bible. Some things ended up on the editors floor. Then there was a 2nd council of Nicea hundreds of years after that. I have a problem with human editors of the so-called "word of God". That for me is a big red flag. Though I see value in the moral teachings of things like the Sermon on the Mount. I don't need Christ to be the son of god or divine for those things to resonate and make sense to me. I also have found references to those ideas from far earlier times. Good ideas don't require force. Also part of this song appears to be a communication between two people. If you see his songs like "Brother" from his Solo album it is apparent he discusses religion with his family, and Brother talks about him losing his brother to cancer. Actually they have experiments that have shown the quantum behavior. It is actually quantum behavior and such that swayed me away from atheism and firmly into deism. It is the mysteries at the edge of infinity whether microscopic or macroscopic that are where I look and see signs of things that seem like an intelligent design. Need I say "simulation". Before you freak on "simulation". If Christianity is true that technically could still be God's "Simulation". :) As someone who codes simulations when you want to detect the simulation look to the edges of infinity. I started thinking about that and looked at the edges of infinity we have found and that firmly finally made me side on the creator/deism side. Science is a hijacked word these days. All Science truly is is the information discovered using the tool known as the scientific method. The scientific method never stops asking questions. Many people that use the term science and scientist are neither of those things as they do not follow the scientific method. The scientific method is a tool. It is designed to avoid bias. Yet many people ignore that and make arguments from authority "I'm a scientist" and then they push things that are not scientific, just their agenda and tainted bias. As to Jesus existing. The only actual historical reference to him before the Council of Nicea 300+ years after Christ was actually from Josephus 70 or so years later and it was very super vague. That doesn't mean he doesn't exist. It also doesn't mean he did. One thing that you can research and find out is that the things attributed to him actually occurred in several religions far earlier than the time of Christ. That doesn't mean he didn't exist. He could have been sharing the consolidated wisdom of the past. I won't argue that. I don't treat anything as dogma and unchangeable. I ask questions and think for myself. At to saying that is "ridiculous" to something we cannot definitively prove. That is an Appeal to The Stone fallacy. So are the statements about Joseph Smith (LDS/Mormons) and his Gold Tablets ridiculous? Are the tales of Mohammed ridiculous? What makes one religion right, and the others wrong when they demand "faith" and challenge people questioning? This is a big part of why deist like myself view written bibles as the work of man. We have problems with other humans being treated as though they somehow are super human and can dictate reality to us. We will listen, we will learn, but we will question and make up our own mind. We will make mistakes, and hopefully learn from them. I won't tell other people what reality is, and how they must act, and what they believe. For me natural law, and things like the Non-Aggression Principle serve me well. I am at peace. I wasn't at peace at all until I discovered deism as the contradiction and history as I studied religion heavily had my mind in turmoil. Deism freed me of that. Observe, and use reason. I can live with that. As to the after-life. We all will get a chance to experience that. Life is an adventure, hopefully death is a continuation of the adventure. (Single longest UA-cam comment I've ever written). A lot of ground to cover in this one. I usually save this for my @dwinblood blog on steemit.
Social Darwinism is a largely discredited ideology that was loosely based on scientific principles which were then warped by social ideologues. A minority of atheists, if any, hold to those principles and those who do are not taken seriously in modern discourse. Darwinian evolution, however, is simply the notion that allele frequencies of populations fluctuate over time as selective pressures are rung through the process of natural selection, meaning that individuals more adapted to an environment at a given time are more likely to procreate, thereby increasing the frequency of the alleles that were conducive to reproductive success in that environment. It's not so much that "the strong survive." Not sure if you meant to conflate Social Darwinism, with modern atheism, with biological evolution, but it somewhat came across that way.