I would actually change Zamasu as well, not change, as in change his character to something else, but in the way of, writing an entire reason behind his hatred of mortals that goes beyond just "I don't like that they don't change that much".
@@bloody4558 at least, instead of just wanting to destroy ALL mortals, have him want to create his OWN mortals. "I was gonna create a perfect world... in MY image..." Trunks (taking a quote from EMH Hulk): "That's the problem. You're ugly."
The best narrative canonical meaning connection that I could come to behind as towards why he could use the spirit bomb martial arts disciplined technique is most likely because of future shin unknowingly teaching him the various key instructions & ki controlling quality methods that an supreme kai apprenticeship in lengthy monumental training goes through just like how zamasu was able to learn to develop his ki to divine levels in capabilities during his own personal guidance with the U10’s supreme kai gowasu.
We all know supreme kai one of the most useless characters in dbz. He is literally there to glaze the sayans and majin buu. Supreme kai would not get trunks anywhere near ssj 2 power levels, let alone mystic gohan levels. To assume he did anything to lead up to the biggest ass pull of the series is akin to being as sorry as supreme kai
@crashtime3429 with how mark’s version goes addressing all the time travel fuckery and his verse giving the character of gohan more relevance, it’s way better than the dog shit we got.
I swear ya’ll see one okay what if scenario and immediately start yapping about how it would’ve been better than the original idea with the single argument of “at least its Gohan”.
Wait so Goku spares Frieza, flies away, Frieza proves he’s never going to stop trying to kill Goku, Goku kills him quick and to be honest, doesn’t even kill him, But for some reason Gowasu and Zamasu are horrified by Goku’s actions? I mean damn Goku seemed pretty justified even by God standards
He could’ve deflected the blast he was more than strong enough but the point is that he initially killed him out of anger which is out of character for the goku THEY saw
By killing frieza, Goku's giving credence to the notion that some people refuse to learn and they're better off dead. That just happens to be exactly what Zamasu believes
@@juicy5251 no, that’s not what happened. Goku gave Frieza up to 3 chances to leave him the fuck alone, faced with his body cut in half he still didn’t stop, Goku killed him when there seemed like no other way to get Frieza to stop. In fact so much to the point, because Goku didn’t put all his power into it cus he didn’t want to really kill Frieza, Frieza came back and tried to kill his friends AGAIN while Goku wasn’t there I feel like any reasonable person who saw that whole fight as Mark implied would come away going:”Yeah Goku, you had to do it”
I mean the DBZ special Future Gohan surviving the Androids made sense. They couldn't sensw him being alive and more important they saw him as a plaything, a source of entertainment to cure their boredom. Killing him off immediatly would go against their motivation. Taking him out later when he has just 1 arm makes more sense since they're basically throwing their broken toy away. Also Future Gohan was only strong enough to match 17 at 50% while uninjured so it's likely that they thought he'd be too boring to keep around if he can't use his full strenght
Manga Goku Black arc is sooooo much better than the anime admittedly. It makes sooo much more sense. Its clear that Toyotaro went much closer to the manuscript than Toei did.
@@orenges7034 He didn't forget the jar in the anime, he forgot the seal. They spent half an episode fixing the stupid jar in the anime because it broke smh. The manga he brought a dirty magazine clip which makes more sense and Goku doesn't seem at fault because it's believable that Roshi would have that in his house
I think people forget that villans usually forget in DB to kill/make sure that there opponent is actually dead. This is not the first time. Krillin, Mai, Future Gohan ,Trunks, etc.
Honestly it would’ve been better if it was the Gohan Black arc in sparking zero. You have Gohah go with Trunks to the future realize he has actual worth in the past and have this motivate him to train hard and live for his family to have a future.
To this day I still truly believe that one of the bigest fixes to the story would have been to have stuck to the theme of the tension that was starting to build between goku black and zamasu. If you remember, they were becoming less alike as the story progressed, and they started becoming more distant due to goku black's saiyan instinct of fighting beginning to overwhelm his desire to follow through with the "plan." I think that would have been a nice way for them to introduce some kind of betrayal in which goku black is somehow able to absorb zamasu unnaturally or steal his power. That could then remove the necessity for them to fuse, but also remain a much stronger threat. After that, you can go anywhere with the story but I think that would have been a nice way to circumvent the fused zamasu situation, and keep goku black in the spotlight.
54:22 ngl, people didn’t actually watch what they said they watched. They watched clips on UA-cam. These guys were eating a full course meal and looked away from the screen every other second 😂
ngl the xenoverse version of sword of hope made more sense since it was alternate universes giving him the energy for it might be wrong but eh that my opinion🤷♂
I think Gohan Black would be cool as a connection to Trunks but besides that, I honestly prefer Goku Black. It really takes the MC and his power and makes the main cast go up against that. In essence it really just is “what if Goku went full evil” but good.
I’m more so talking about the visual and the concept rather than the actual character of Goku Black. It gives us the best idea of if Goku did hate mortals and what would he do. How would going up against that power that saved them so many times in the past be like. That type of thing
@@MarioSonicBeeexcept it doesn't because he doesn't fight or act like goku, listen you don't have to explain your opinion, you just like evil goku and that's fine but honestly gohan black does more interesting things with trunks's character
The random Sage crashout at the Androids not killing Gogan is so valid. They *wanted* to kill him, rained down ki blasts and even if they moved, a quick scan in the area should tip them off to the tall man in the *bright orange gi.* There was no game, there was barely any excuse, and it's just another showcase of DB fans not actually watching their show.
@@yellowviper357 Chat harping on Mai dying as if her presence changed anything. Her being alive or not makes no difference. She's NOT a driving force for the arc. She's literally just Future Trunks' love interest. It always annoyed me. The first this happened is when Sage reacted to the manga version of the arc and chat was tripping.
Thing is is kai trunks isn't too far off as he did train with the kai's till majin buu arc in his timeline, he, atleast in the manga already had a few kai abilities, even welding the Z-sword himself when fighting Deborah. (Fun fact) though wouldn't that mean beerus doesn't die or is their a whole thing that has to happen to link him to beerus.?
Titles like these rub me the wrong way. Even if I know it isn’t intentional and is being used almost entirely for clickbait purposes, it feels really disrespectful to the original creators, especially given how the entire internet was hailing Toriyama as the patron saint of Shonen basically the whole month after his passing. It’s much easier to “correct” a story in hindsight than it is to write it “correctly” the first time, and I feel like not enough people acknowledge that.
My one criticism is that the Z-Fighters losing to Black and Zamasu in the original story was already a hard sell since they could've won the first round. But now the new scenario is asking to to accept that they would lose again *with* Gohan bolstering their forces? If Goku and Vegeta jump Black while Trunks and Gohan ping pong Zamasu, the arc is over. How can the fight last any further than that? On top of that there's a 2nd round with an even stronger Goju and Vegeta?
I think were you sorta got to let shit be for plot. You're comparing Goku black to this Gohan black and thinking they have to be the same power. For this story Gohan Black is just that much more powerful.
Maybe instead of just Goku Black or Gohan Black we get a tag team with the Zamasus and get the best out of both. And now we can see a Goku + Gohan fusion and as a fun complement to that, a Vegeta + Trunks fusion to counter it.
i feel like if ur gonna make a character immortal, you literally have no choice but to seal them, because if they get killed they were never actually immortal, they were just really durable which is even more underwhelming in my opinion, because that just means everyone else was too weak to realize this dude wasnt actually immortal. its kind of just a dumb idea to make a character immortal in the first place unless theyre literally zeno because now you have only have 1 way to beat them without going “oops hehe i lied he wasnt actually immortal i just didnt want him to die yet”
I think the mafuba is the best ending regardless. The whole arc he keeps yapping about how hes acting out of the good of the cosmos so him being defeated by a technique used to seal demons is a really nice touch
Gohan sadly chose not to fight in the tournament universe 6 vs 7. But to also add in is that zamusu didn't know of trunks till this point, it was only till he made it to the future that they met, just to remind anyone, even adding manga readers or anime watchers.
43:05 not a fan of that. Also My head hurts so hard with the gymnastics Mark is doing to justify Zamasu using Gohan's body. This is mark's writing style, "let's make things more complicated than they have any right to be." I admire him for thinking outside the box but this is too much, this would not be a fun anime to watch sorry lol. Literally sparking zero's version of Gohan Black was superb. Either make the story more align with that or just have it be Goku Black like normal with a few alterations to the narrative.
8:00 no…that’s NOT Trunks’ Gohan…THIS Gohan probably forgot about Trunks and so for him it was just a oh nice to see you again…for Trunks he’s happy that THIS Gohan is happy….why would Trunks glaze this Gohan….they weren’t even that close in the cell saga something I personally think that’s where they fucked up…if they had became best friends in the cell saga then yea makes sense but no…it was strictly business with this Gohan😅 L Take, with Vegeta that’s his POPS no matter he timeline🤷🏿♂️
My problem is that people dont pay attention enought to understand that they went over the plot hole of Zamasu being erased with the time rings as well. They protect the wearer from anything that affected other timeline variants.
55:50 didn't they blow up the whole area cuz they couldn't tell where he was. Pretty much leveling the entire area, they sampling assumed they got and left. Cuz that's the scene he lost his arm.
he is in bright orange gi standing RIGHT behind them… if instead of blowing it up they “leveled the area” which is the definition of semantics btw lmao, how would they not see him ESPECIALLY given that they were looking for him, “leveled the area”, and would have a sky view flying away. Furthermore him losing his arm and trunks being in a different area means HE GOT HIT 😂 so at some point Gohan is implied to have not only tanked but silently tanked the attack, trunks goes flying, the area is “leveled” they still don’t notice none of these events AND THEN fly away!?
@@TSO_Sage I'm sorry, you telling me about a teenager with seemingly very little fighting experience in the future without the ability to sense ki wouldn't do that? Brother, I have seen IRL teens do more stupid stuff. But forget that. You ALSO are implying that he wouldn't be launched considering the half that the building was up for was THE HALF HE WAS HIDING IN. There was 0, count it, 0 things stopping him from being launched BEFORE the blast. But of course you wouldn't think, you're a Goku fan. Y'all cheer for that man like you ARE him.
@@kirboman5175 i think you trying to hard to insult me instead of even attempting to argue or listen bro lmaoo & ironically you’re proving my point. or at least you misunderstood me gang. it seems we both agree the building got destroyed & Gohan/trunks likely or at least probably went flying. therefore, the idea that they couldn’t see nor hear Gohan potentially scream/take damage is already unrealistic. hes wearing bright orange & another guy hair is purple, its visually hard to miss them. but then considering how close they already were & their intent of finding him, the idea they just never saw/heard him while the field is leveled is also again, unrealistic. you never even disproved this, your only attempt was arguing “they dumb teens” which is disgustingly disingenuous. that and we have visual of them toying with trunks & hiding from cell, hell even performances in the TOP… they’re never implied to be as dumb as you claim 😂 lastly while intellect is the topic, Goku has 0 to do with this conversation. i get you tryna insult my own intellect for some odd reason, but idk why or even how YOU thought he was relevant here. this is strictly about how i find it kind of ridiculous Gohan didn’t even get seen.
Ngl I feel like either a Vegeta Black or a Gohan Black would've been better for the feeling aspect of the arc in Super. Imagine how it would've looked and felt (especially for Trunks) watching Vegeta (the father of the future's "Last Hope") destroy the world that Trunks worked so hard to rebuild.
This is one of the arcs where they couldve took a break from Goku. There was alot more connection between future trunks, vegeta, gohan and maybe even kid trunks. It could’ve been as simple as Zeno likes Goku and offers to play/ train him individually right after the U6 tournament. On the condition that goku wouldn’t have any contact with his friends. Goku seeing it as a time of peace he goes to get stronger.
Sage actually brought up a very interesting point about Gohan Black in Mark's rewrite. While I think Mark did a good enough job to set up why Gohan would take the fall instead of Goku with the showcase of SSJ2 there's still the Godtube fight that might conflict feelings. Why not choose the choose the consistently growing Goku over the inconsistent Gohan. I will say though that overall, I do like the changes here especially with how Mark tries to make time travel in Dragon Ball actually make sense.
I don't blame you for the fact that Zamasu should pick the strongest one and I feel the same way but at the same time picking Gohan for potential is not bad either like if you picked a pokemon whether it's a high level or a low level you can evolve it to be stronger.
I forgot the exact rules, and I think Mark just changed the rules anyway. What were the actual rules of the time ring, again? Cuz I vividly remember Goku Black breaking the rule, hence why the time rift forcibly sucks him back in
Hot take, i dont like Super Saiyan rage, but if they just ended it with Trunks splitting zamasu in half would have been waay way better than him fusing with the universe and needing zeno. The fusing with the universe was just way too much. And i also agree there wasn't enough energy to form a spirit bomb like attack.
I would have just redcon time traveling as mortals or less advanced universes idea of what time travel is in reality it’s you going a alternate universe
Sealing Zamasu away instead of killing him is a bit anti climactic, yes, but it’s quite literally the only way to go unless you take away Zamasu’s immortality. Plus, for Zamasu fans, keeping him sealed just means there’s potential for his return in a future arc. The only 2 questions left are, where do you keep the seal? And does Trunks stay in the present timeline or does he return to his timeline?
four and a half minutes in and I wanna throw out an idea. Future Trunks arc should've had a bad ending where the villian wins. Maybe they escape that universe/timeline using the Super Buu/Gotenks yell that got them out the RoSaT and then we get a multiverse arc. Am I the only one that's also dissapointed by Super's multiverse? Where my Dragon Ball Crisis on Infinite Earths? Why do the ToP and not have an adventure through the universes they did have?? I like Super, genuinely, but I don't know if there's a single part of it that doesn't underwhelm me conceptually outside BoG. Don't gimme Xenoverse and then a new anime with a multiverse concept and then not explore the damned multiverse! I wanted to see Dragon Ball shout out and include the what if culture. But I can't lie. I want Xenoverse to be cannon. I actually think it's an easier show to digest if you act like it is.
If anyone can answer this question. I was always confused on where trunks went after the arc. Ik went back to his timeline but is it not gone because of Zeno? I might need to rewatch it but can someone tell me where did trunks go?
They didn't go to their original timeline, he and Mai went to an alternate timeline where another Trunks and Mai already existed. So there are two Trunks and two Mais living in Bulma's house.
hold on so where did Trunks go to at the end of the Arc?😅😅 wasn’t his timeline COMPLETELY erased? he just gonna pull up to a random timeline? even if it’s a timeline he’s not in…the shit it would fuck up😂 the way he gonna have to be like YO i’m from a different timeline but i’m staying here now😅 like what
he and Mai went back in time to before goku black showed up, meaning that there’s two of them in the same timeline. they be doin anything to keep future trunks outta the main timeline😭
Gohan and Trunks use fusion dance Goku and Vegeta use fusion dance. Than they put on the potara earrings. GG black and zamusa This Vegotrunkshan goes to tournament of power with 17 ,18 krillen , Roshi, Picoilo and they win
Not gonna lie, your reactions to Mark’s re-writes is the first time I’ve ever thought you caught nothing but L’s. Makes me kinda glad you gave up on the idea and never did your own lmao
thankfully you won’t stop my ambitions on videos 😂 cuz who are you, granted prolly a troll but it’s funny a take like this exist considering I never 100% agree or disagree with the rewrite. points like mark improved the ending, rage wasn’t needed, the canon intro is great & “why not still choose goku” are ALL “nothing but Ls”? ain’t ya first time with random disrespect tho so im assuming you just want a response lol
9:15 counter argument, this is DBS, the idea of the protagonist not making it past a villan is not in anyones mind at any point, same way everyone knew that universo 7 was going to wings the Big tournament and being everyone else back whit the super dragón balls Even before the tournament had started, everyone always knows they are going ro stop the antagonist an move on yo the next thing, the only question is whether or not the sayans will get a new hair dye
12:59 and just like that Zamasu would of been the stupidest villan in DB 1. Doesn't even know Gohan 2. Why would Zamasu use a weaker vessel This just prove to me people probably would of made the series worse 😂 Edit : 14:04 thank you sage 😂
Its really not hard to think about the scenario before commenting. Marks departing from the funky time travel for the original (he has a whole sequence dedicated to this) and the solution is stealing a body from one of the other timelines to keep the others off his scent. In each of these timelines goku is dead from the heart virus so at best goku has some afterlife training in
Gohan wasnt fighting a Goku Black. he was fighting a Gohan Black who understands his potential better than Gohan. Also the androids didn't, they blow off Gohan's arm. Did you even watch the Special?
Gohan is the strongest... in the Raditz arc, the andriod arc and the end of the buu arc (minus fusions), why wouldnt he pick Gohan. Goku is the best fighter, but how does Zamasu utilise his fighting skill/brain if he steals his body? He cant really, just his strength, so why not choose the highest power level/highest power ceiling. Its a no brainer to me
Nah man this story was swinging for the fences and just reaching. People quickly forget without goku and piccolo, gohan will never be like the main timeline gohan and will never reach his full potential. So him taking a gohan body from a future where gohan is significantly weaker . If you take gohans body if it’s not the main timeline or the movies timeline which both Goku lives then zamasu is going to be a whole lot in trouble because he will be so behind that the gap in power he won’t be able to even match main timeline gohan and vegeta and goku could kill gohan black very very quickly than they did in the original story. Example look at gohan training with goku for a year vs piccolo training gohan for a year . The power difference he gains when goku is his teacher is absolutely stupid.
Yeah I can agree with you all but... you left my guy Trunks without a his own transformation and his own moment so I don't care what you all continue to say... Wtrunks Sword of hope and thanks to this we have one of the most badass animations for Trunks in games like DB Legends ecc...
Mark: "We are going to keep Zamasu as is"
Sage: "Booooo"
Mark:"...but we're going to remove Super Saiyan rage entirely"
Sage: "I'm listening 👀"
@@SavantPete 🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
I would actually change Zamasu as well, not change, as in change his character to something else, but in the way of, writing an entire reason behind his hatred of mortals that goes beyond just "I don't like that they don't change that much".
@@bloody4558 at least, instead of just wanting to destroy ALL mortals, have him want to create his OWN mortals.
"I was gonna create a perfect world... in MY image..."
Trunks (taking a quote from EMH Hulk): "That's the problem. You're ugly."
My main problem with the arcs ending is
WHO TF TAUGHT TRUNKS THE SPIRIT BOMB. KING KAI? DEAD GOKU?
Me
BigSteve9713 did
The spirit bomb is a huge plot issue, but its nothing compared to the Zeno button
The best narrative canonical meaning connection that I could come to behind as towards why he could use the spirit bomb martial arts disciplined technique is most likely because of future shin unknowingly teaching him the various key instructions & ki controlling quality methods that an supreme kai apprenticeship in lengthy monumental training goes through just like how zamasu was able to learn to develop his ki to divine levels in capabilities during his own personal guidance with the U10’s supreme kai gowasu.
We all know supreme kai one of the most useless characters in dbz. He is literally there to glaze the sayans and majin buu. Supreme kai would not get trunks anywhere near ssj 2 power levels, let alone mystic gohan levels. To assume he did anything to lead up to the biggest ass pull of the series is akin to being as sorry as supreme kai
5:39 Sage : " 'cold take' who tf said it was hot?😂 "
Also Sage, 9 seconds prior : " Hot take, don't fuck wi the intro " 😂😂😂
i was js finna comment that lmfaoooo
But in all seriousness the intro was good and shouldn't be change
I love the concept of Gohan Black. Narratively it makes sense and it would be nice to see Gohan actually do something in an arc
We dont need Gohan black. We alr got it in SPZ. Even if it was in the main series, it just is worse than Goku Black as a character. Rose ontop
Goku black is Cool bruh it's not that bad 😂
@crashtime3429 with how mark’s version goes addressing all the time travel fuckery and his verse giving the character of gohan more relevance, it’s way better than the dog shit we got.
I swear ya’ll see one okay what if scenario and immediately start yapping about how it would’ve been better than the original idea with the single argument of “at least its Gohan”.
@@arpadszabo661 It’s better because it forces Trunks to confront his first failure and allows Gohan to step up as a more prominent character.
Wait so Goku spares Frieza, flies away,
Frieza proves he’s never going to stop trying to kill Goku,
Goku kills him quick and to be honest, doesn’t even kill him,
But for some reason Gowasu and Zamasu are horrified by Goku’s actions?
I mean damn Goku seemed pretty justified even by God standards
He could’ve deflected the blast he was more than strong enough but the point is that he initially killed him out of anger which is out of character for the goku THEY saw
It proves the point of that the pure hearted most righteous of mortals still in fact battle out of malice
By killing frieza, Goku's giving credence to the notion that some people refuse to learn and they're better off dead. That just happens to be exactly what Zamasu believes
Goku had selfish reasons, that was the problem. Plus the majin vegeta shiit
@@juicy5251 no, that’s not what happened.
Goku gave Frieza up to 3 chances to leave him the fuck alone, faced with his body cut in half he still didn’t stop,
Goku killed him when there seemed like no other way to get Frieza to stop.
In fact so much to the point, because Goku didn’t put all his power into it cus he didn’t want to really kill Frieza,
Frieza came back and tried to kill his friends AGAIN while Goku wasn’t there
I feel like any reasonable person who saw that whole fight as Mark implied would come away going:”Yeah Goku, you had to do it”
54:03 the funniest part is that we know 17 has Super hearing, but couldn't find the mothafucka breathing Hella heavy RIGHT BEHIND HIM😂😂😂
Lol, his hatred against Rage Trunks his hilarious 😂😂
Brother wants him GONE
We all want him gone
We need beast and rage gone those form are so ass and such bs power ups
@@Mysticshosh42 beast is cool, hell nah
@mastertjt56 Nah that shits just as trash as rage I hate beast
@@Mysticshosh42 When Beast appeared: "Hey there handsome~"
When Rage appeared: "H-Hello, asspull department?!?"
I mean the DBZ special Future Gohan surviving the Androids made sense. They couldn't sensw him being alive and more important they saw him as a plaything, a source of entertainment to cure their boredom. Killing him off immediatly would go against their motivation. Taking him out later when he has just 1 arm makes more sense since they're basically throwing their broken toy away. Also Future Gohan was only strong enough to match 17 at 50% while uninjured so it's likely that they thought he'd be too boring to keep around if he can't use his full strenght
Manga Goku Black arc is sooooo much better than the anime admittedly. It makes sooo much more sense. Its clear that Toyotaro went much closer to the manuscript than Toei did.
.mm
I wonder what’s more believable .
In the anime, Goku forgets the jar
In the manga, Goku forgets the seal
@@orenges7034 He got the wrong one in the manga, he didn't forget it.
@@orenges7034bruh how you gon forget the jar when it was literally your main card in the manga is more believable
@@orenges7034 He didn't forget the jar in the anime, he forgot the seal. They spent half an episode fixing the stupid jar in the anime because it broke smh. The manga he brought a dirty magazine clip which makes more sense and Goku doesn't seem at fault because it's believable that Roshi would have that in his house
I think people forget that villans usually forget in DB to kill/make sure that there opponent is actually dead. This is not the first time. Krillin, Mai, Future Gohan ,Trunks, etc.
7:08 😆😆😆😆I was waiting for this moment ! It never gets old. Trunks is a real savage 🤣
I personally prefer the Goku Black Saga in the manga. Things seem clearer and make more sense than the random moments in the anime.
Bonus no super saiyan rage
The start of the anime is better imo, but the manga story is insanely better, especially avoiding bs like ssjr and zamasu 'fusing with the universe'
Me too,especially since there's no ssj rage
Nah rage is way too good of a transformation to leave out
@@destroyer5689 what is it then?
Honestly it would’ve been better if it was the Gohan Black arc in sparking zero. You have Gohah go with Trunks to the future realize he has actual worth in the past and have this motivate him to train hard and live for his family to have a future.
Me after the intro: "THEY CALL HIM THE WHAT?!"
To this day I still truly believe that one of the bigest fixes to the story would have been to have stuck to the theme of the tension that was starting to build between goku black and zamasu. If you remember, they were becoming less alike as the story progressed, and they started becoming more distant due to goku black's saiyan instinct of fighting beginning to overwhelm his desire to follow through with the "plan." I think that would have been a nice way for them to introduce some kind of betrayal in which goku black is somehow able to absorb zamasu unnaturally or steal his power. That could then remove the necessity for them to fuse, but also remain a much stronger threat. After that, you can go anywhere with the story but I think that would have been a nice way to circumvent the fused zamasu situation, and keep goku black in the spotlight.
54:22 ngl, people didn’t actually watch what they said they watched. They watched clips on UA-cam. These guys were eating a full course meal and looked away from the screen every other second 😂
ngl the xenoverse version of sword of hope made more sense since it was alternate universes giving him the energy for it might be wrong but eh that my opinion🤷♂
And that was so hype, like, it almost balanced out the plot hole completely
@@UniCops frr
I think Gohan Black would be cool as a connection to Trunks but besides that, I honestly prefer Goku Black. It really takes the MC and his power and makes the main cast go up against that. In essence it really just is “what if Goku went full evil” but good.
but hes just zamasu
But it’s really not Goku though , when Zamasu takes over there’s not a single character trait that links back to Goku in a meaningful way.
I’m more so talking about the visual and the concept rather than the actual character of Goku Black. It gives us the best idea of if Goku did hate mortals and what would he do. How would going up against that power that saved them so many times in the past be like. That type of thing
@@MarioSonicBeeexcept it doesn't because he doesn't fight or act like goku, listen you don't have to explain your opinion, you just like evil goku and that's fine but honestly gohan black does more interesting things with trunks's character
@dragonluck777 gohan nah
The random Sage crashout at the Androids not killing Gogan is so valid. They *wanted* to kill him, rained down ki blasts and even if they moved, a quick scan in the area should tip them off to the tall man in the *bright orange gi.* There was no game, there was barely any excuse, and it's just another showcase of DB fans not actually watching their show.
53:54 the sage crashout lmao
Chat needa leave Mai alone. What is the obsession? Jeez...
EDIT: And whoever said "Super 17 > Zamasu" in chat is smoking a laced pack 😐
what they say
@@yellowviper357 Chat harping on Mai dying as if her presence changed anything. Her being alive or not makes no difference. She's NOT a driving force for the arc. She's literally just Future Trunks' love interest. It always annoyed me. The first this happened is when Sage reacted to the manga version of the arc and chat was tripping.
@@GregSmithIIIfact
@@GregSmithIIInot deep😊
@@GregSmithIII dang
This series (and Sage's reactions, by extension) is my UA-cam life right now
Thing is is kai trunks isn't too far off as he did train with the kai's till majin buu arc in his timeline, he, atleast in the manga already had a few kai abilities, even welding the Z-sword himself when fighting Deborah. (Fun fact) though wouldn't that mean beerus doesn't die or is their a whole thing that has to happen to link him to beerus.?
Titles like these rub me the wrong way. Even if I know it isn’t intentional and is being used almost entirely for clickbait purposes, it feels really disrespectful to the original creators, especially given how the entire internet was hailing Toriyama as the patron saint of Shonen basically the whole month after his passing. It’s much easier to “correct” a story in hindsight than it is to write it “correctly” the first time, and I feel like not enough people acknowledge that.
Fixing the Black arc? Easy. Just read the manga version.
He already did
Yet that also has problems
@@levievil9220 it has problems but its leagues better than the anime version of the arc
@ yeah true if I were to make the arc I would obviously use what works for both and alter details if needed
@@levievil9220 what would you change about it personally?
My one criticism is that the Z-Fighters losing to Black and Zamasu in the original story was already a hard sell since they could've won the first round.
But now the new scenario is asking to to accept that they would lose again *with* Gohan bolstering their forces?
If Goku and Vegeta jump Black while Trunks and Gohan ping pong Zamasu, the arc is over. How can the fight last any further than that?
On top of that there's a 2nd round with an even stronger Goju and Vegeta?
I think were you sorta got to let shit be for plot. You're comparing Goku black to this Gohan black and thinking they have to be the same power. For this story Gohan Black is just that much more powerful.
😂😂😂 that “phew” felt personal @24:00
someone said zamasu googled who has the most potential and gohan came up in the results 😂
Maybe instead of just Goku Black or Gohan Black we get a tag team with the Zamasus and get the best out of both. And now we can see a Goku + Gohan fusion and as a fun complement to that, a Vegeta + Trunks fusion to counter it.
Gokhan confirmed??!?
Appreciate the uploads hopefully I catch the next streams
Bro The Drink’s the rage now
its funny u mentioned the fightheads who consider sealing mickey, because the second mark mentioned it someone in chat went “mafuba mickey” 😂😂
i feel like if ur gonna make a character immortal, you literally have no choice but to seal them, because if they get killed they were never actually immortal, they were just really durable which is even more underwhelming in my opinion, because that just means everyone else was too weak to realize this dude wasnt actually immortal. its kind of just a dumb idea to make a character immortal in the first place unless theyre literally zeno because now you have only have 1 way to beat them without going “oops hehe i lied he wasnt actually immortal i just didnt want him to die yet”
I think the mafuba is the best ending regardless. The whole arc he keeps yapping about how hes acting out of the good of the cosmos so him being defeated by a technique used to seal demons is a really nice touch
@@commander8237 but we're Dragonball fans! We want epileptic seizures from all the laser beams and shit!!"!!11!!
I like this ending waaaaayyyy better.
I love the thought of Zamasu just trying to choose his main so he can wipe everybody
Gohan sadly chose not to fight in the tournament universe 6 vs 7. But to also add in is that zamusu didn't know of trunks till this point, it was only till he made it to the future that they met, just to remind anyone, even adding manga readers or anime watchers.
Gohan black makes more sense tbh
in what way?
43:05 not a fan of that. Also My head hurts so hard with the gymnastics Mark is doing to justify Zamasu using Gohan's body. This is mark's writing style, "let's make things more complicated than they have any right to be." I admire him for thinking outside the box but this is too much, this would not be a fun anime to watch sorry lol.
Literally sparking zero's version of Gohan Black was superb. Either make the story more align with that or just have it be Goku Black like normal with a few alterations to the narrative.
Yoo I was waiting for this
what did trunks just say😂😂😂
8:00 no…that’s NOT Trunks’ Gohan…THIS Gohan probably forgot about Trunks and so for him it was just a oh nice to see you again…for Trunks he’s happy that THIS Gohan is happy….why would Trunks glaze this Gohan….they weren’t even that close in the cell saga something I personally think that’s where they fucked up…if they had became best friends in the cell saga then yea makes sense but no…it was strictly business with this Gohan😅 L Take, with Vegeta that’s his POPS no matter he timeline🤷🏿♂️
When this arc was still in the works, vegito wasnt even planned to be there, he was just thrown in for the sake of selling toys..
My problem is that people dont pay attention enought to understand that they went over the plot hole of Zamasu being erased with the time rings as well. They protect the wearer from anything that affected other timeline variants.
55:50 didn't they blow up the whole area cuz they couldn't tell where he was. Pretty much leveling the entire area, they sampling assumed they got and left. Cuz that's the scene he lost his arm.
he is in bright orange gi standing RIGHT behind them…
if instead of blowing it up they “leveled the area” which is the definition of semantics btw lmao, how would they not see him ESPECIALLY given that they were looking for him, “leveled the area”, and would have a sky view flying away.
Furthermore him losing his arm and trunks being in a different area means HE GOT HIT 😂 so at some point Gohan is implied to have not only tanked but silently tanked the attack, trunks goes flying, the area is “leveled” they still don’t notice none of these events AND THEN fly away!?
@@TSO_Sage I'm sorry, you telling me about a teenager with seemingly very little fighting experience in the future without the ability to sense ki wouldn't do that? Brother, I have seen IRL teens do more stupid stuff.
But forget that. You ALSO are implying that he wouldn't be launched considering the half that the building was up for was THE HALF HE WAS HIDING IN. There was 0, count it, 0 things stopping him from being launched BEFORE the blast.
But of course you wouldn't think, you're a Goku fan. Y'all cheer for that man like you ARE him.
@@kirboman5175 i think you trying to hard to insult me instead of even attempting to argue or listen bro lmaoo
& ironically you’re proving my point. or at least you misunderstood me gang. it seems we both agree the building got destroyed & Gohan/trunks likely or at least probably went flying.
therefore, the idea that they couldn’t see nor hear Gohan potentially scream/take damage is already unrealistic. hes wearing bright orange & another guy hair is purple, its visually hard to miss them. but then considering how close they already were & their intent of finding him, the idea they just never saw/heard him while the field is leveled is also again, unrealistic. you never even disproved this, your only attempt was arguing “they dumb teens” which is disgustingly disingenuous. that and we have visual of them toying with trunks & hiding from cell, hell even performances in the TOP… they’re never implied to be as dumb as you claim 😂
lastly while intellect is the topic, Goku has 0 to do with this conversation. i get you tryna insult my own intellect for some odd reason, but idk why or even how YOU thought he was relevant here. this is strictly about how i find it kind of ridiculous Gohan didn’t even get seen.
Ngl I feel like either a Vegeta Black or a Gohan Black would've been better for the feeling aspect of the arc in Super. Imagine how it would've looked and felt (especially for Trunks) watching Vegeta (the father of the future's "Last Hope") destroy the world that Trunks worked so hard to rebuild.
“🥷🏿’s call me the twink” -zamasu
This is one of the arcs where they couldve took a break from Goku. There was alot more connection between future trunks, vegeta, gohan and maybe even kid trunks. It could’ve been as simple as Zeno likes Goku and offers to play/ train him individually right after the U6 tournament. On the condition that goku wouldn’t have any contact with his friends. Goku seeing it as a time of peace he goes to get stronger.
Sage what you dont understand is gohan is a mutant and his X gen actitved at that moment and he turned invisible to escape black
Bro's hate boner for Gohan was crazy.
Sage actually brought up a very interesting point about Gohan Black in Mark's rewrite. While I think Mark did a good enough job to set up why Gohan would take the fall instead of Goku with the showcase of SSJ2 there's still the Godtube fight that might conflict feelings. Why not choose the choose the consistently growing Goku over the inconsistent Gohan. I will say though that overall, I do like the changes here especially with how Mark tries to make time travel in Dragon Ball actually make sense.
did someone say my favorite dragonball creator is reacting to my second favorite dragonball creator?? lets fucking goooo
Sage we really want you to react to DragonBall New Hope.
Imagine Gohan black pulling out beast rosé, that would be hilarious
I like the changes made but what about Videl
@@IDKmyname351 *”WHAT. ABOUT. VIDEELLEELLEELELLELELELEL”*
It's funny that trunks literally go back in time to get goku and vegeta to safe he's timeline and come back all destroyed.
I don't blame you for the fact that Zamasu should pick the strongest one and I feel the same way but at the same time picking Gohan for potential is not bad either like if you picked a pokemon whether it's a high level or a low level you can evolve it to be stronger.
The Goku Black saga is fine as is
In the manga atleast
HOLD YOUR FIRE, THAT MAN ISNT BLACK
Aww man I wanted to see Truhan Rage
“Hot take…” 10 seconds later “Cold take? Who said it was hot???”
Y’ALL SEE HOW HE BE GASLIGHTING US??? 😂😂😂
Sage such a good at acting 😊
Yeah Trunks becoming a Kai is cool and all but the time ring only goes to the future… not the past
I forgot the exact rules, and I think Mark just changed the rules anyway. What were the actual rules of the time ring, again? Cuz I vividly remember Goku Black breaking the rule, hence why the time rift forcibly sucks him back in
Gohan Black should have always been the villian point blank. And you must also remember how Mark is telling this story not how the anime told it.
The drink drip
I honestly would have prefered "Goku Black" to be Goku who never bonked his head as a child. Not someone else controlling him
Remember Z where the side characters shine for a bit then goku takes the W at least till cell
Hot take, i dont like Super Saiyan rage, but if they just ended it with Trunks splitting zamasu in half would have been waay way better than him fusing with the universe and needing zeno. The fusing with the universe was just way too much. And i also agree there wasn't enough energy to form a spirit bomb like attack.
I would have just redcon time traveling as mortals or less advanced universes idea of what time travel is in reality it’s you going a alternate universe
Sealing Zamasu away instead of killing him is a bit anti climactic, yes, but it’s quite literally the only way to go unless you take away Zamasu’s immortality.
Plus, for Zamasu fans, keeping him sealed just means there’s potential for his return in a future arc.
The only 2 questions left are, where do you keep the seal? And does Trunks stay in the present timeline or does he return to his timeline?
Trunks in the manga was a Kai in training
four and a half minutes in and I wanna throw out an idea. Future Trunks arc should've had a bad ending where the villian wins. Maybe they escape that universe/timeline using the Super Buu/Gotenks yell that got them out the RoSaT and then we get a multiverse arc.
Am I the only one that's also dissapointed by Super's multiverse? Where my Dragon Ball Crisis on Infinite Earths? Why do the ToP and not have an adventure through the universes they did have??
I like Super, genuinely, but I don't know if there's a single part of it that doesn't underwhelm me conceptually outside BoG. Don't gimme Xenoverse and then a new anime with a multiverse concept and then not explore the damned multiverse! I wanted to see Dragon Ball shout out and include the what if culture.
But I can't lie. I want Xenoverse to be cannon. I actually think it's an easier show to digest if you act like it is.
If anyone can answer this question. I was always confused on where trunks went after the arc. Ik went back to his timeline but is it not gone because of Zeno? I might need to rewatch it but can someone tell me where did trunks go?
They didn't go to their original timeline, he and Mai went to an alternate timeline where another Trunks and Mai already existed. So there are two Trunks and two Mais living in Bulma's house.
Not too much on the drink now
Goku black has more aura than Gohan black ever could
hold on so where did Trunks go to at the end of the Arc?😅😅 wasn’t his timeline COMPLETELY erased? he just gonna pull up to a random timeline? even if it’s a timeline he’s not in…the shit it would fuck up😂 the way he gonna have to be like YO i’m from a different timeline but i’m staying here now😅 like what
he and Mai went back in time to before goku black showed up, meaning that there’s two of them in the same timeline. they be doin anything to keep future trunks outta the main timeline😭
Any buckers here
solo leveling reaction videos needed!!!!
Gohan and Trunks use fusion dance
Goku and Vegeta use fusion dance. Than they put on the potara earrings.
GG black and zamusa
This Vegotrunkshan goes to tournament of power with 17 ,18 krillen , Roshi, Picoilo and they win
Not gonna lie, your reactions to Mark’s re-writes is the first time I’ve ever thought you caught nothing but L’s.
Makes me kinda glad you gave up on the idea and never did your own lmao
thankfully you won’t stop my ambitions on videos 😂 cuz who are you, granted prolly a troll
but it’s funny a take like this exist considering I never 100% agree or disagree with the rewrite.
points like mark improved the ending, rage wasn’t needed, the canon intro is great & “why not still choose goku” are ALL “nothing but Ls”? ain’t ya first time with random disrespect tho so im assuming you just want a response lol
Drip over 9k
. Lmao
That was sooo ass and people be still defending it like it's some god tier ending
Zephfire has a namek saga review. Watch it
In marks rewriting zamasu pretty much exist to solely make trunks life a living H, nothing less and everything more.
Buuuttt... The one thing toriyama always wanted was trunks time gets nuked and then zeno will be used as catalyst for the TOP.
They had to nerf the manga😭
9:15 counter argument, this is DBS, the idea of the protagonist not making it past a villan is not in anyones mind at any point, same way everyone knew that universo 7 was going to wings the Big tournament and being everyone else back whit the super dragón balls Even before the tournament had started, everyone always knows they are going ro stop the antagonist an move on yo the next thing, the only question is whether or not the sayans will get a new hair dye
two videos in one day?
12:59 and just like that Zamasu would of been the stupidest villan in DB
1. Doesn't even know Gohan
2. Why would Zamasu use a weaker vessel
This just prove to me people probably would of made the series worse 😂
Edit : 14:04 thank you sage 😂
Its really not hard to think about the scenario before commenting. Marks departing from the funky time travel for the original (he has a whole sequence dedicated to this) and the solution is stealing a body from one of the other timelines to keep the others off his scent. In each of these timelines goku is dead from the heart virus so at best goku has some afterlife training in
I didn't like the gohan treatment in this arc. One thing we as fans were robbed of is present gohan working with future trunks.
16:06 F U THAT SWORD IS COOL
Gohan wasnt fighting a Goku Black. he was fighting a Gohan Black who understands his potential better than Gohan.
Also the androids didn't, they blow off Gohan's arm. Did you even watch the Special?
Strongest guy possible? Ok, take broly. Or freiza, who is also both the strongest and has the most potential, as we saw in the manga
Super saiyan 2nd
The best way to fix the goku black arc is to just get rid of it entirely, cause it sucks
Real, I'm the strongest
totally first
Day 9 of asking sage to react to frieren
Gohan is the strongest... in the Raditz arc, the andriod arc and the end of the buu arc (minus fusions), why wouldnt he pick Gohan.
Goku is the best fighter, but how does Zamasu utilise his fighting skill/brain if he steals his body? He cant really, just his strength, so why not choose the highest power level/highest power ceiling. Its a no brainer to me
Nah man this story was swinging for the fences and just reaching. People quickly forget without goku and piccolo, gohan will never be like the main timeline gohan and will never reach his full potential. So him taking a gohan body from a future where gohan is significantly weaker . If you take gohans body if it’s not the main timeline or the movies timeline which both Goku lives then zamasu is going to be a whole lot in trouble because he will be so behind that the gap in power he won’t be able to even match main timeline gohan and vegeta and goku could kill gohan black very very quickly than they did in the original story. Example look at gohan training with goku for a year vs piccolo training gohan for a year . The power difference he gains when goku is his teacher is absolutely stupid.
Yeah I can agree with you all but... you left my guy Trunks without a his own transformation and his own moment so I don't care what you all continue to say... Wtrunks Sword of hope and thanks to this we have one of the most badass animations for Trunks in games like DB Legends ecc...
Real
Beat me to it
The baby saga is still better than the Goku black saga