Mic Preamps - How to Decide?
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- Опубліковано 11 гру 2024
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Hey Barry, Thanks for another great video. The recommendation of Audient is Spot On. To the community: As the owner of a whole bunch of outboard gear, here are my own personal words of advice: Investing in Mic Pres can easily rack up a bill of $10,000 or more for a 2% to 5% improvement. So... Please, Please, Please DO NOT go down this road unless you have money to burn. DO NOT explode your marriage or enter into financial ruin investing in Mic Pres. The benefit is not worth it. Always remember: An amazing performance will sound great through anything. That's why it's amazing.
The point of diminishing returns is a subject that should be delved into more when talking about audio recording.
I think the benefits are more than that amout, but to each his own. Like anything buy what you can afford, but the beauty of being single is I control 100% of all the cash in and out and if I had a wife that was not supportive of my endeavors then she would be exited from the relationship. A free man does not ask for permission. But yes at some point there are diminishing returns, but that can relative because everyone could see it differently based on tastes and hearing abilities. To some the nuisances matter a lot and to some good enough is good enough. Personally I would probably fall in the middle of those two poles.
@@daviddavis9835 I talk about that a lot on my channel. My goal is to help people make smart decisions.
@@legacyShredder1 that’s what I’m taking about!
@@PurpleMusicProductions Love this.
Dude, I don’t live in USA, but I really appreciate how honest you’re being about gear. Not many do that.
My favourite and still most used I ever bought is the shadow hills mono gama, it’s a little more costly.......But having experience with all the popular pres, I love how it’s three in one. I would recommend this to anyone as a first also.
Dude thanks for sharing the history. This is the real part that's missing for most of us who had the youtube "eductionation".
Thank you for always taking the time to clearly break down the information you share !
Casually I was discussing this topic with a friend of mine that wants to invest on mic preamps for his studio.
There’s a caveat though… he’s not great at speaking/understanding English.
Regardless, I’ll pay attention to the video and then tell him!
Regards from Spain Barry 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Barry is right, $1000 a preamp. We all want to have awesome gear for cheap, but the good stuff just aint cheap.
Its kinda interest to hear that you served navy at dragon hill back in 90's actually they are U.S 8th army. My studio located at Itaewon. I just hit 'subscribe' by the way.
I have a MOTU Stage B16. Fantastic gear! 16 ins and 8 out, Adat for my old Motu interface.
Perfect video, thank you so much! History and flavors of specific brands, super comprehensive. Taught me everything I wanted to know as a beginner in the rack world.
I'm so glad I found your channel. Nice to hear someone talk technical and affordable
Thanks!
Huge CAPI fan here. We have built 10 channels of the VP28 and built 4 channels of their compressors ( XFMR with Litz trans). I am a session drummer on the side for fun and these guys are just awesome ( usual mic number for a session is 13). Also have Sebatron VMP-2000 tube 2 channel which is pretty detailed for a tube pre amp compared to my LA-610 which is super "tube-ish". The A designs blue is extremely pristine to me. Just My opinions. Nice video :)
I'm an ebay buyer and seller and have to say ebay is still my first choice in looking up used gear. Reverb is fine (and I've bought/sold there as well). But the shear volume of products on ebay can give you the better deal because there's more compitition. Reverb is mostly guitarist (and stores) buying and selling. Ebay can be anyone buying and selling so there's a larger audience potentially.
We must be looking at a different eBay. As far as audio gear, it’s very, very limited for used gear compared to Reverb which has any type of gear you need, way beyond guitar related gear. When I’m looking to buy/sell camera gear, it’s eBay.
Some of these older live consoles also had great mic pres and eq. We seem to forget...
Brown Mark (my big bro in the music biz), bass player from Prince and the Revolution gave me some of the greatest advice ever!!!!
He told me purchase the best mic pre my money can afford me.
I’ll never forget it!!!
@@7gpi SSL and ISA two
@@7gpi red one
Hey Barry,can you do the same type of video for "Channel Strips"? I just purchased a Drawmer MX60 PRO because the Focusrite ISA 430 MKII and the Rupert Neve Portico II channel are no longer available. I wanted an "all in one" rackable unit that comprised a pre-amp,EQ,compressor,de-esser and noise gate for vocals with the "British sound". Even though the Drawmer was 1/4 the cost of the Neve,it was the only alternative I could find, and it is made by the guys who used to work for Rupert.
I just wanted to say thank you for your channel. Since last year, been slowly getting back into playing and song writing, as well building my project studio again. I come from the Mackie and two adat world, with Cubase as my sequencer. Lol...
Thank you for the support, I really appreciate it
Very sound advice. I just picked up a BAE 1073 rack unit on the used market for $750. Deals can be found with a little bit of patience.
That is an insanely good deal
@@snippletrap yeah I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I was like holy smokes I'm pulling out my credit card right now lololol. I got it from Guitar Center online. I haunt their website about every two days and have amazed a lot of high end gear and instruments that way. I'm a broke workingman so I have to count my pennies.
where did you buy it from!?
@@officialdiomer from Guitar Center actually. Every now and then they have some great deals on gear if you are patient and active in hunting.
@@PurpleMusicProductions that’s dope!! i actually just emailed Barry because i wanted to hear his thoughts on my preamp situation. i recently got a Neve 5211, but i actually don’t like the silk feature on it as much as i thought i would. my next top option was a BAE -1073. should i go for one of them instead?
I have the Golden Age Projects Comp-2A and 3A and those are two ridiculously good sounding compressors for the money, I know we are talking preamps here, but if the compressors sound this good, I can only imagine how decent the pres are
Agree. I have the Comp 2A and it has some serious vibe. Very colorful when pushed. I did a shootout with Comp 2A and 3A and both sound great. Similar character but the 3A is a bit quicker.
Golden age premier 73 is a very serious pre, i use it interchangeable with the original neve. Except for vocals, but that's BAE land anyway
In your honest openion who makes the best pro high end interface money is no object. Thanks🙂
My favorite UA-camr out, always high quality content 🔥
Wow, Thanks Curtis!
I know this is 2 years old now, but for anyone looking for great 'Bang for your buck' mic pre's, checkout the SSL Big Six. Get one on the used market. You basically get 4 SSL channel strips and the actual SSL G bus compressor circuit -- and the LMC (compressor).
So, 4 SuperAnalogue mic pre's, 4 SSL EQ's, 4 SSL channel strip compressors, AND the G Bus compressor, AND the LMC (compressor) all for around 1900 USD (used market).
Even for 4 quality DIY mic pre's (500 series) and a 500 series rack and power supply, you're going to get up in the high $1500 to $2000 price range.
When I need 8 mic pre's, I just use 4 of my interface mic pre's, and send them out of interface into the 1/4 inputs of of SSL Big Six. Which is ch. 5, 7, 9, & 11 set to mono. Then send that out of Big Six into the DAW. Use SSL pre's 1-4 for Kick, Snare, Overhead L and R.
The mic pre's are the same as the ones in their SiX 500 series modules ($400 a piece new). On top of that you get 4 additional stereo inputs with EQ, and all types of routing capabilities that will come in handy as you grow your workflow. It also sounds killer.
One more thing, the pre's are very clean. They add little to no color. The channel compressors do add color (or saturation?). If you don't want to compress your signal very much, but want to tame/round-off those high-end transients, just engage the channel compression. The G bus comp = incredible.
That's not a good pre, they use very nasty sounding ic's, got nothing to do with the "higher end" ssl pres.
love your channel! really surprised you don't have waaaay more followers.
I’m still pretty new to it, o started it Mid June of this year. Thanks for the support!
When he stops putting out videos aimed at the beginner market he will ,
@@sideast I strongly disagree that most of my videos are aimed at the beginner market. A few yes, but most? That’s just not how I see it. Regardless, I don’t do this for popularity, I genuinely want to help people. I feel there is something in my videos aimed at the beginner to the long time established.
Thanks Barry, your helping me to save lots of money and to better understand lots of the gear that’s out now….I to was stationed in Seoul Korea at Yongson. Brought back lots of goodies for the studio….👍
that was a great discussion, probably watch it again to soak up all the info !
Golden Age’s Premier line (not project) is definitely worth a shot, in my opinion the best bang for your buck. I prefer them to great river.
I so needed these advice tutorial thanks Champ i got alotta gear point research to start looking up to see what would work for my usages ✌🏻
Thank you for your service shipmate!
You are welcome shipmate!
Ever considered live application gear as studio mic preamps? eg. Midas MR18 or M32, Allen and Heath Q/QR Series, you’d be amazed at the quality of the converters relative to price/channel count….
Also more easy to find Cat or thunderbolt connection too. I haven’t gone that route yet but I’m considering it.
Man you said a lot of great stuff here Barry. Watching this again. Really thinking about adding an Audient 800 or 880 to my Apollo 8xp to get 8 more channels for drums, but you are making me consider just saving my money for higher quality pres than that and keep learning about the pres by using the plugins in the meantime
I recently upgraded from a audient asp800 to a used rme octamic d
its night and day despite the octamic d being older than the asp.
Great video man. This stuff gets very addictive though :D
I have an IGS NE573 to cover Neve bases and An API312. I almost always record in mono and when we are recording the drum kits we have sixteen channels of Focusrite Clarrett.
I went to mixing entirely in the box and sold all of my outboard gear off (I wish I'd kept some of it, such is the merry go round) and thought I'd get a nice mono front end for key things such as vocals or acoustic guitars.
It goes IGS NE573 or API 312 into DBX 560A into Trident 80B.
Over time I'd like to upgrade the 560 into something more 1176 flavoured.
Anyway, great stuff man and enjoy the topics.
The thing is if your looking to get into colored sound for your studio needs there is a ton of company's building like the Neve 73 clones. It's like the China Company Alctron, it's like who are they. They are a huge company that builds pre amps for many big and not so big company's. They build to the specs of the company's who hire them for the build. So who do they build for? Universal Audio (710 Twin-Finity Microphone Preamp), Golden Age, just to name a couple. Then Alctron do their own spin on some of them as well and way cheaper. So it's like you got a real Neve, a after market Neve, then you have like Warm Audio spin on it. Then you have Golden Age spin on the clone, and then Alctron's spin on it. So how do they stack up compared to the real deal, well they do but they don't either. Are you going to notice a big difference in the mix, unless it's just bad sounding then I would call it a different flavor is all. Most are very useable. The thing is a lot of kids starting out don't have 10k or more to sink for microphone preamps. You can get the Alctron's 500 series N73 pre for 165.00, that's cheap and has huge transformers. They sound great for the cost of the things, you can get a used 500 rack off Reverb and load up a 8 to 10 channels of Neve sounding preamps on limited budget. They are quiet, lots of gain for ribbon microphones and have that sound. Do they sound just like a Neve, will no, but nether dose a lot of clones, but it will get the job done and has that sound, bottom line. It's all getting so good now days, and used is good to it it's not to old or you don't mind working on it or controls that might not work right. Been there, lol. So that's the thing I find kind of funny. You got the real deal, then you got a clone, and then a clone of a clone, then a clone of a clone of a clone. The thing is a lot of them come out of the same company that are to be built in China. You can get some nice 8 channel Neve pres. for about 4000.00, So that's like 500.00 a channel for the Neve 1073OPX 8-channel Microphone Preamp with Remote Control. So if you look at it that way a 500 series can get speedy too. BAE 1073MPL 500 Series Microphone Preamp is like 1100.00 for one preamp, Golden Age Project Pre-573 Premier 500 Series Microphone Preamp 400.00 for one channel, Revive Audio Modified: Alctron/ N-Sonic, Mp73a, N73Pre 500, Mic Preamp, New in Box! Smooth! 1073 380.00 one channel, and the stock one for like 165.00. So with that being said the Neve rack mounted one looks almost cost effective, compared to a old Neve channel strip racked up for 12k used. I've been thinking hard on the Neve 1073OPX 8-channel Microphone Preamp with Remote Control, who know maybe some day but for now many people could get by on a Alctron MP73EQv2 1073 Channel Strip Microphone Preamp and Equalizer for under 400.00. I own 6 of the N-Sonic Mp73a's and one 500 series Tone-Beast from Warm Audio. I use the Mp73a way more, they just have a great sound on drums, I use Grace designs two channel for the overheads. So yes, if your on a budget, just find what sounds good to your ears and sets right with your budget.
Looking at the big picture the Neve 1170 eight channel is 500.00 per channel, the cheapist Neve clone is 165.00 and you have to buy the 500 rack too. So for 300.00 per channel more you can have the real deal, something to save up for. :)
Excellent video. Thank you
I use a Joe Meek SixQ. It is a nice inexpensive single channel MicPre/EQ/Optical Compressor with a SPDIF output. I am currently putting together a 500 series rack. I own the Warm Audio TB12 and a DBX 520 De-esser. I still need to buy the chassis, an EQ, a compressor. I plan to use this as my vocal chain.
Barry, a Vocal comparison between UAD-Unison-Softwarepreamps and the real ones would be great. Most comparsion on YT are not very useful. If they put the vocal recordings side by side, the difference isn't really there as long as you don't distort the audio like lets say in Rockmusic. I think and hope you hear the 2000$ difference when you try to mix even decent vocals in context. That would be quit interesting !
I can learn SO much from you
Tell us what you shouldn’t have bought!!
Thanks for the video.
I own the Audient ASP 800. Fantastic piece. You could buy better but the results would be negligible.
I will be incorporating that word into my vocabulary.
I have an ASP880 and I absolutely love it.
I have two channels of Phoenix Audio DRS-Q4, and those go for half price on Reverb often. They have EQ built in which really works. Some people don’t care for them, and I’ve found that I like a nice loud amplifier for them, so I use them on my loudest sources, the Marshall amplifiers.
The Dave Hill Europa 1 preamps are my nicest preamps, with the 2nd and 3rd order harmonic features. Nice and complex tonality without comp or EQ.
I also have the Great River, but those would really like to have their companion EQ, or preferably the channel strip version MP/EQ would be nice. I keep an eye out for the EQ2.
In your comments someone asked about the UK Sound 1173, with a built in comp. I only have one channel as a test but kept it and would definitely buy another. If you’re mixing music and you feel like parts get lost or buried in a mix, compression can really help that track stay alive. I know sound engineers and mix engineers have this down to a science, but for me, someone who never had a formal education, it was an interesting revelation.
I’ve not had a chance to experience the UK Sound Channel Strip yet!
Thank you for all the info sir. Looking forward to all your videos.🙏🏼
Even with somehow long video,was outstanding! Cheers!
Happy you enjoyed it!
i have an ADL600 can't live without it
Universal audio 4-7 10 D is an excellent quad preamp with tube compression and adat. It’s a great deal comparing features to price.
I owned it several years ago and did in fact like it quite a bit. It’s great for the price for sure, I ended up selling it and bought an ISA828mkii with the digital card that I use for drums for remote recording.
loving the channel and have both an iD and EVO unit from Audient. I myself can't stand outboard gear. Mic pres, compressors, saturation units, and other fancy hardware actually annoy me when people try to use them. When I receive tracks I want them recorded into the interface with the shortest signal path possible. Pre-cooking them takes out all the fun. I love processing the signal from a guitar connected directly to the interface with a cord rather than mic'd. I dont even want vocals high-passed going in. That mud could be used for something who knows. Studio monitors are literally useless to me due to my room. It seems all we really need is a good laptop, a decent interface, and some headphones. Studios should be filled with mostly plants and not so much gear.
This was a very informative video Barry thank you much!
Thank again Barry!
Great explaination!
I'm getting a Warm Audio 73eq preamp.
You’re very knowledgeable!!! Keep up the good work!
And thank you for your service 🇺🇸
Thank you.
The ones that sound good are my favorite.
Nice video Barry, i just discovered your UA-cam channel. I purchased a WA73-EQ Preamp about 3 weeks ago. I first started with a Presonus Eureka, but I like the WA73-EQ much, much better.
Thanks for the support and enjoy that new channel strip!
At my friends studio by UCF he has api and vintech 273 (1073 clone) we just recorded some drums for this Christian album we’re working on. Really awesome sound!! Love the API!!
One day I will get one lol 😂
Literally while watching this video my delivery of a 500 series API 512 C showed up. Excited to put it in the lunchbox! Have another channel of the same coming Sunday. Next is a BAE 1073, just currently trying to decide if I go for a dual-pre Rackspace unit or single preamp channel strip with eq…. Because after that I’m aiming for a pair of Distressors (w Brit mod)… it’s a good year for upgrades for me and the home studio 😁 always hard to decide which piece of gear to save for next!
I don’t do a lot of EQ on the way in, so I’m wondering if rather than introducing outboard EQ to my set up, if it would be smarter to instead get 2 preamp channels in one unit. Currently have a pair of Burl B1’s and now a pair of API 512c… so I need to decide if I go for the flagship vocal channel strip, or just yet another pair of preamps with the BAE 1073 flavor. Leaning towards the latter, because if I want to do a stereo mic up of something and want to get the 1073 flavor I will have that solution. Plus that leaves more money toward Distressors… my question that remains, and that maybe someone in this conversation might be able to help me with: I noticed a couple very small specification differences on the preamps in the dual rack universe is the single channel channel strip with EQ. Anybody have any insight as to whether or not there is really any difference between that dual preamp unit and the single channel strip unit, assuming all EQ and extra bells and whistles are disabled/not considered… if anyone CAN provide insight, THANK YOU!
@@makemusicordie I don’t typically recommend EQ’ing on the way in, unless you’ve got a very good, very good handle on what you’re hoping to achieve in the mix while you’re tracking. So keep that in mind.
Well, you’ve made some great choices so far, and your plans going forward, I’m behind them a 100%!
@@BarryJohns Yeah, definitely. I’ve got a pretty good grasp on what I want out of my recorded signal, and I’ve actually recorded vocals through a BAE rack unit with the eq at a friends space down in LA, and did like the result, but more so just think I will get more use/value out of two preamp channels rather than one with EQ capabilities, and also then you gotta be ready for EQ recalls etc...
Do you have any idea if the preamp section of, say, the BAE 1028 and 1084 rack units with eq, differ at all from the simple two-channel-unit’s preamps? I ask because I noticed the slightest difference in specifications, which flared up the OCD/made my choice just that much trickier ha ha. Any insight would be awesome, or even just your opinion on the matter overall :)
Love your channel Barry, you’re awesome! I am a fellow home studio owner who makes a living working from said studio. Grateful every day!
UPDATE: Found out all the info I was after :)
It is safe to say that most people roll in to recording because they want to write and publish simple songs. 16 tracks of audio usually suffices. For that to work 16 to 24 tracks bussed into 8 busses usually suffices.
That way of working has been possible now in a decent way (128 samples buffer) since like 2014 or so. With a modest investment in a (usb) audio interface with 2/4/8 or 16 channel audio interface.
So testing that on older computers and current offering would be nice. Two plugins per track is kinda overkill. You can create 4 stereo busses and compress and reverberate/aux process there. Leaving only noise gate to live drum tracks if needed.
You created some 200 channel track templates on a new Mac. Cool. But can you also do the same on above mentioned templates and mention buffer settings?
There are still a load of 16 ch to 8 busses rack mixers out there, Tied to a computer interface can give individuals a great workflow at modest cost.
If you could condens this to some test setups in the different daw's out there you will be able to gain a bunch of followers who then can rely on setting their boundaries in their own projects by recreating such a mixing template and sticking with it.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on Unison Preamps on the Universal Audio Apollo interface. I am able to use a Neve 1073 preamp as a plugin for the Universal Audio Studio interface. What do you think?
It sounds similar but not the same. It’s close enough for me, but not for everyone.
@@ChaceBonanno thanks for your response!
The rule for gear is you can only pick 2 out of three of the following: Price, Quality, Availability. I have 3 Stam products: a neve clone, api clone and bus comp clone. All three of those sound amazing, especially for the price and the wait was only a couple of months for each at the time. However, I bought a mic from them over 1.5 years ago and still haven’t received it yet. I’ve talk to them a bunch via email, they make things as parts are available and Covid shut them down for prolonged periods of time. They are located in Chile so that I plains why it’s hard to get.
Warm audio ! 273 is great ! Sounds exactly like Neve 1073 dpx ! I use it often and sometimes confuse the 2 !
You are right. They are great sounding.
I have the channel strip with the EQ. Love it!
Thanks so much 🙏
I use an ONYX Preamp by Mackie into MOTU M4
Great video! It would have been awesome if you mentioned some of the “up and coming” digital standards, like MADI and Dante…. Especially Dante. Definitely pricey, but very impressive digital standard.
I guess I should clarify that I meant you should mention them in relation to expanding your preamp selection.
From what I’ve seen and researched, it’s better to save money and buy a better Neve clone than the GAP. The GAP Comp-2A is the best LA2A clone for the price range, highly recommend.
I know you're an RME fan. Would you recommend the RME Octamic II vs the Audient ASP800? Or even the Audient ASP820?
I think the Audient a better buy for this.
@@BarryJohns is there a clear benefit to the 880 over the 800?
Ima fan of the crispy polished sound I really want the Avalon m5 but it’s super expensive what do you think of the grace m101
For rock pop or r&b, I like the Great River MPNV or Daking
Would an ISA One also be suitable for rock?
Or an Elysia Skulpter 500?
@@gkiss2030 I've used the ISA once or twice. I'd say it's cleaner and doesn't have the character of the two I mentioned. I haven't used the Elysia. Many years with the GR & Daking with complete satisfaction.
@@tanukibrahma Thank you!
You should do a video on studio budgets
50k is ave cost and ppl do not like to hear these type of numbers.
No love for the V72s and V76s?
Got a beef with SSL or their clones? Didn’t hear them mentioned.
I love of this boils down to money.
I just need lots of analogue mono inputs rather than pre-amps, for synths and drum machines with individual outputs. What should I be looking at? I've seem the Ferrofish pulse 16 but it's really not much cheaper than buying 2x asp800. I know Behringer do some really cheap ones or a Presonus studiolive III 24R can work as an audio interface. I want quality but also a decent number of inputs. Since I'm not really using preamps much I guess only the AD conversion matters but i'm not sure what is best to get.
Ferrofish has the best converter quality
Is the Avalon 737 any good?
Why didn’t you mentioned Avalon V5 preamp or the 737 ?
I need more I/O for my outboard gear , i have a Apollo x4 , what do suggest ???
What’s your budget? How much additional I/O? What will you be recording with the additional I/O?
@@BarryJohns 1k. i just order the ClarPlusOcto Eight-channel ADAT Mic Pre Expansion. What you think ?
Great video!!
I have several videos on that on my channel. Search for Mic Preamps.
Hi, I have an Allen And Heath Mix Wizard 16 channel. Would you say those built in preamps are pretty good? Or not even close to a Neve?..
I'm looking for 500 series. I want to avoid bulkiness
Audioscape came with v1290, Wonder how it compares to heritage 73jr. Would be great if you can do a shootout.
Ok for acoustic guitars you said if 2 mics are being used it is best to have 2 of the same preamps so the sound is the same. What if I had only one preamp, one of the mics went straight to the interface to the daw and the other went first through the preamp then to the interface then to the daw, could I later take the recording of the one that went straight to the interface and route it out of the daw and through the preamp, back through the interface , back into the daw and basically reamp it?
my presonus studio channel is silky smooth.........
I love their old eureka !
Hello Berry! Thanks for the videos. Quick question, I have an Apollo twin audio interface, do I need a preamp?
I would start with the unison preamps.
I need help in picking out a not too expensive interface using a pre amp Universal Audio solo/610 & TLM 103?Using mainly for voice over & recording traffic reports?
Is apple becoming a leader in the audio industry?
Focusrite ISA TWO is incredible!!!!!
Got an audient interface, not recording drums at the moment.
Are Mackie preamps "good enough"?
Did you ever mention SSL in this video?
Avalon is great! Great great!
Thanks Barry. And I have some question for Barry if he has time but also, anyone who has time to comment I really appreciate the association.
I'm at a crisis point with regard to gear. I'm really tired of having to strain to hear the difference. But here we are.
So, when I needed to upgrade my interface I bought a Focusrite because it's supposed to be good (Neveish right?) And I got the Clarette cause its supposed to be even that much more Neve-ish. (right?)
So, with the Focusrite being 'good' but not as good as an actual dedicated pre-amp if I get a Neve-ish pre-amp to stick in front of the Focusrite ... (arrrrgh) the new sound is still going to be colored by the failings of the Focusrite.
This is my assumption. Is it correct and is there away to by-pass the pre-amp guts of my interface?
I will also add that I'm not unhappy with my sound at present. I'm concentrating more on performance and mixing. I know I'm not getting world class vocal sounds like I'd hear on major recordings, I can hear the difference.
But most people who will listen to my stuff listen on their phone or consumer speakers so it's of little consequence. Over all I'm pretty thrilled with the sound quality that I do get as humble as that may be. Still, whether I use an SSL plug in or simply use some stock eq and compression, I'm pretty happy with the sound either way. I know the sound is different and perhaps one sounds better than the other but I feel a lot of times that that is subjective to my mood. The difference does not send me over the moon. I wish I could appreciate the difference more. I'm hesitant to throw 2 grand at two more channels of pre amp only to find it makes a 'meh' difference.
Years ago I used Roland VS. At the time it was a great way to learn and a very stable program at 16/44.1. But where that unit really fell short was that Roland had really crappy pre-amps. The work around was to use a mixer of some quality and or a preamp going in with the channel gain on the Roland turned all the way down. This worked well and the difference in sound was marked.
Hey, just some short and maybe a bit incomplete answers for you:
You can bypass the preamps on a clarett interface by plugging into it with balanced trs jacks. Then you can still add the AIR circuit to the signal path if you want to add a bit of top end sheen to the sound. The clarett has pretty good preamps for a clean and rather clinical sound. So the reason to add external preamp should be that you want some different character.
If what you want is to get closer to that world class vocal sound, a microphone has much larger impact. If you are happy with your mic I would suggest getting a good quality channel strip so you can do some prossessing before hitting your A/D converters.
Also when it comes to plugins… most times one can get really good results with stock plugins. Sometimes having a specific emulation plugin (SSL compressor or whatever) helps you get to your desired sound faster but stock is just fine too.
@@kekkonenhiihti Hi kekkonen. Thanks for taking the time to answer this. I will research the tip/ring/sleeve bypass thing a little more. Right now I can't understand how it would be different than an XLR but the concept sounds very interesting.
Also the concept of adding 'color' is kind of what is getting me ranting. Coming from an era where we were trying to get as much transparency as possible only to find years later that SSL and Neve products were so primitive and poorly designed that they added color. It makes me nuts. If I go to my rig and fire up a Brainworks Neve Strip next to a Wave SSL Strip I really can't here anything different. Both products merely add zizzle. I'm becoming apathetic to all these products.
I'm going to try one more experiment before swearing off all the product hype. I'm going to take a vocal loop and add an SSL strip (plug-in) with everything set neutral and then keep adding the plug the same strip in series till I can hear things getting really messed up. Then I will turn my back on the marketing of magic boxes and get back to tracking.
And yes I agree with you about the microphones. Microphones are wonderful. I'm lucky to have an NT1 and a Worker Bee and a box of dynamics. It will be a while before I find an 87 in the middle of my room.
Cheers Man.
@@toddgreenwood9631 The plugins you mentioned probably won't have much difference just being loded to a channel. But I can guarantee that when used (especially if you do some exagerrated moves) there will be an audible difference. But just so you know, in my opinion it is a good choice to just decide on one good channelstrip plugin (or one compressor, gate and one parametric EQ) and go with that until you notice that you need something else. I would be pretty content doing most of my mixing with that Brainworks Neve channel. Though my channelstrip (plugin) of choice is the Waves Scheps Omni Channel.
About bypassing the preamps with TRS: The Focusrite interface has been built so that it makes presumptions based on what connector is plugged in. Basically if you use XLR it thinks that it must be a microphone and if you use TRS it thinks it must be receiving line level signal. And depending on the exact interface, if you plug TS jack to the first two inputs, it believes it is an instrument level signal.
I must admit I havent checked the signal diagrams for Claretts in a long time so there is a chance I misremember some of this but this should at least minimize the effect of the input stage.
And so we're clear on this, bypassing the preamp is viable option only when you're using an external preamp. So you cant just run a condenser mic through the TRS. Dynamic mic would (in theory) work but the signal would be almost inaudible.
@@kekkonenhiihti Thanks Kek!
What about upgrading your mics before buying fancy mic pres?
Thats another video…..
Where do you buy your preamps from? I mean besides Sweetwater.
Which category would you guys put the Focusrite preamps such as Clarett, Red, ISA? (Scarlett isn’t really worth bringing up here imo) I also think the FMR Audio RNP is worth a mention as a really good stereo pair of preamps for $500.
Red and ISA are excellent! I’ve heard good things about the Clarett in the Price range.
hi how do you rate tl audio a1 dual valve preamp? among these?
What about ir with the pa
Please demo the heritage audio mic pre
Ok
Do drum machines need pre-amps?
No
It’s simple. TG2 or chase tone for your entire life. Take your pick. 😅
I tried to find a video of yours on this topic but I could not find one so, do you think it's better to get simples mic preamps and then save to explore EQs and Compressors, and meanwhile just use the plugins, or get a channel strip and afterwards just bypass the EQ and Comp if you like other units better?
Bad sound recorded by bad preamps can not be saved by anything. Go figure.
@@legalize.brokkoli how does that answer my question?
@@CarlosKTCosta Yes.
I feel like you're gonna spend more if you get a channel strip before you know what you like. I just bought a few pieces of outboard gear, and I'm really leaning towards going back to just plugins for mixing, because I really don't like the workflow of hybrid. My goal now is to continue to focus on the front end of my setup. I have a revive audio 1176 to track through and now I'm looking into mics and a "money channel" pre.
I love your video! Is it possible to ask your advice (email or otherwise) on a very specific gear question?
Of course, barryjohns@barryjohnsstudiotalk.com
You are not quite right about AES digital protocols, for example AES67 is 64 channels (Dante too)