A lot of people have asked to see the full games. I've posted them to the Inner Circle subscriber chat. It's free to join and the best way to interact with the community: pickleburner.substack.com/.
Your content is fantastic. The way you breakdown the details and instruction is helpful and is easy to put into use on the court. Off topic, coming from a loyal Legacy paddle owner I couldn’t help but notice in some of your earlier videos in tournaments you were using the Legacy paddle. Did you just switch to the Selkirk paddle and if you don’t mind me asking why ? Thx Matt
Don't forget a very important fact... let more of their high blasted balls go. When a banger steps into the midcourt or 2/3 court to drive a ball that sail above the chest, then avoid avoid avoid. Even with a lot of topspin, there isn't much distance left for the ball to stay in play. Btw, great video.
A couple of things to add, bangers don't like to play slow. So try and get them up to the kitchen line dinking. Also, as someone else commented (or asked), serving a slow, loopy, deep, topspin serve almost eliminates them banging a return. They have to generate the pace. And a lot of the times courts don't have that much room on the ends. And lastly, really sink into your athletic stance and get ready. Have a no fear mentality.
Your video is telling the real truth, unlike some other videos that are trying to make people feel that magic can happen if they follow what the video says. Specific to the context, I feel like I need to reinforce the strategy. Sometimes I made the wrong choice just because I thought I can make magic happen. Next, it all comes down to drill you mentioned. Need to improve the consistency.
Obviously.. its like comparing the top Chinese player with just ping pong players in general. The entirety of China is one billion strong. Any auntie can play ping pong and you ask why Chinese van bang the ball. Auntie is finished. You get gapped hard. The gap in pickleball is non existent if you compare the scales even if you normalised the distribution. In other words there is no comparison because a ping pong or tennis pro will easily beat a pickleball player...
Great video (your content is overall very thoughtful .) I completely relate to this as I play with former college tennis players as well. Your strategies are solid. I describe them as “drivers” as they will drive the ball hard if given any useful altitude on a return (bounce or volley). I find that getting low at the kitchen line helps block and reset their drives- the shorter distance between paddle and eyes improves accuracy. Also try to reflect their drives at their feet as much as possible. Please consider doing a video on reset shots from the transition zone- would be helpful for any pointers on that difficult skill.
A major factor is to figure out what bangers want. They love forhands especially high short balls down the middle. Dont give that to them. Give them low shots to the BACKHAND. Yes it takes training but if you can take the time to hit deep returns, now just hit deep to the backhand. If they runaround it, the forehand they now hit wont have the same pace as a step in forehand. Just my two cents
Great analysis Pickleballer! Very helpful tips on how to play bangers by breaking down the shots that are setting them up. Will watch this one again & again! 🏓💥
Great video! A lot of the "how to beat bangers," videos only apply to lower level strategy. This is the first video that addresses banging at the the higher/highest level. Great analysis and break down of goal/knowledge/execution! Loved the part at the end saying how "its not a knowledge issue anymore its execution."
thanks! I've posted them to the Inner Circle subscriber chat. It's free to join and the best way to interact with the community: pickleburner.substack.com/
Fantastic analysis! I have slowly come to the understanding that the shot before the drive or put away is the reason bangers are able to push me around. Additionally, I have started staterd to attack weak returns or serves or 4th shots from my opponents...my game has sky 🚀...Thanks again for your analysis 🎉
Great video and great advice. I like how you breakdown every part of the serve to the 4th shot and how we can defend ourselves from ex-tennis pros, I play them in my own gym and they crush us all the time.
Tony…it’s Mark from Maxam. Love the content. Super helpful…beating bangers is something I’ve been researching for a while. Played in a tournament recently, and we played a team of bangers. One thing that worked well for us, was limiting the opponents’ opportunities to take big swings. We brought them to the kitchen, and outdinked them. Also, big, topspin lob serves, are hard to rip, so those were effective too. And our story ended similarly to yours. 😂. We still lost, 15-10, but we played them tight.
Good video. Don't mind the haters. You had a problem and broke it down into steps to fix it. I also appreciate the honesty at the end. Keep up the good work.
I am curious as to why the deep high lob is not used more as the second shot (return of serve)? Deep high lobs tend to mess people up trying to return them as it poses too many choices as to when to return them after the bounce and also allows the weather to play a bigger part outdoors (wind or sun in your eyes for example). Thoughts??
Great stuff! I love the visual that the spreadsheet gives you so you can analyze the game and pinpoint what is impacting your game. It’s an excellent to self-scout. I’m sure you would rather have a direct view from behind but the court is sick!
I watched your video and analysed my play. I try to do all that you note. It boils down to skill or LACK of skill. I just have to accept for now, some are just better than me.
Do you think it’s better to hit deep, slow, high serves against bangers so they have to generate their own power rather than using your pace against you?
Softer returns, with very little spin, that peak at about 6-8 feet have been effective for me. My goal is to block the ball back, with essentially no backswing, making contact in front of me. I start a few feet back from the line so I can take a step up as the ball is being hit, then keep my momentum going as I block the ball back and get to the kitchen comfortably. With a compact backswing, I can return deep pretty consistently.
Great video, got totally hammered and frustrated playing a banger the other day and I’ve been itching for rematch with a better plan. This is the plan I was looking for!
Something else to consider is backspin on return of serve it keeps the ball low and makes it more difficult to hit topspin. Lastly take pace off everything nothing bangers like more is players who want to out hit them. Love the videos, keep up the good work!
I feel like the most fundamental and hardest park of pickleball is getting that 3rd shot drop. Or any drops in general. By getting yourself back to the kitchen and being able to reset and situation you'll be a solid player. Just my opinion
A point that could have been emphasized more following your excellent type of analysis is that bangers = pace = less TIME. Pace reduces time to react and creates more pressure. More pressure leads to errors. Some of the things you did to counter was to give yourself more time and reduce the pressure. Taking time away from your opponents in almost every sport is a good strategy. The next aspect is to be ready. Having the paddle up and ready gives you more time to react. If you always expect them to put pace on the ball, then you will always be ready. If they still hit an excellent shot down the middle that you can't touch then just say "nice shot".
Would you say your returns have very little spin? Or tend to have top or back spin? I try to block the ball back, using very compact backswing, with very little spin and land it in the back 1/3 of the court. If I try to get fancier and put side spin or aim too close to the sidelines, I am much less consistent.
My honest advice is to practice your serves to increase speed and depth. Strategies only matter when you are playing against opponents at similar level. You need to improve your shots to compete against the better players.
Can you please make a video on how to hit a return Spin serve? There's a few guys in my gym that servie the ball with a crazy spin and everytime I hit it, the ball either goes left or right out of bounds- or into the net. Thanks. btw, Im a left hander. so please help me from that angle. thanks.
hmm i'd try just aiming for the middle but i'd be surprised if someone is getting so much sidespin on a legal serve that it's causing your return to jet out wide
Deep serves and returns are generally the best tactics against any player, not just bangers. I'm not sure why a table needed to be constructed after the first match to emphasize this.
@@mykyproano2777 I could be wrong since it's hard to see the design on the paddle, but its possibly a Bread and Butter Filth with the white edge guard and white grip.
Hi, I love the video, the analysis and the tips. The music choice however makes me very anxious. Perhaps no music so we can take in what you are saying? The music is really distracting and too fast paced for such thoughtful commentary. Others may disagree...just my thoughts. Thanks!
You missed the point they aren’t bangers. What they are doing is a fast top spin drop shot. It’s the hardest to control. Most people just hit it hard and flat which is easy to disarm. You need the paddle further out in front of you at the net and just let it bounce back at them at half court.
New "subber" here. Liked your breakdown on bangers. I didn't see any shots to their left shoulder. I personally never step on the court w/o eye-pro especially when I know my banger. No judgement, just sayin. I found that if I find a weak spot to aim for, a "banger" will "head hunt.
I mean, your guidance isn't wrong. But it's just a really complicated way of arriving at the same basic fundamental strategy that we always use: get a good deep serve, get a good deep return, get to the kitchen fast. How is this different from playing against non-bangers?
appreciate the video but it ended up being a long winded way of saying “deep serve sets up a make-able 3rd and deep return makes 3rd shot drive less potent.” Thank you nonetheless.
How about the fact that some of the serves look very questionable? I think a lot of people are getting away with illegal serves and the fact that the PB governing bodies and tournaments don’t do anything about it doesn’t help.
In tennis, you have a lot more scenarios where you're on the move, while also having to hit a runaway tennis ball; How to deal with different types of playstyles, and you have different weather conditions, too. In pickleball, just stand further back against huge bangers, and go nuts in the kitchen. LITERALLY ALL YOU REALLY HAVE TO DO. Plus, being good at a totally different sport, shouldn't be able to translate ALL THE SKILLS NEEDED TO PLAY. Take skiing, and rock climbing, for example; two totally different sports in various seasons, but have some similarities into how the hands are utilized in each environment. Pickleball & Tennis ARE LITERALLY THE SAME SPORT, BECAUSE Y'ALL USE PART OF A TENNIS COURT, JUST WITH A SMOL DONK TYPE OF NET. Point is, if you're gonna play pickleball, take out MOST OF THE ILLOGICAL BS RULES, and you got yourself a non-gambling, shits and giggles, Non-Olympic sport. It's like street handball, became the boujee version of team handball, but just not televised; and played more recreationally.
When you play tennis and come over to pickleball thinking you’ll be 5.0 in 2 weeks, but get smoked by 60+ 4.0’s because you were never even that good at tennis in the first place, this is the comment you spend 20 minutes typing to make yourself feel better.
Again, this is a sport for people who are too poor for golf, and too unathletic for tennis. Y'all do this sh** for fun. This won't be an olympic sport, because this is a sport within an sport, which doesn't not flow with gambling, either.
A lot of people have asked to see the full games. I've posted them to the Inner Circle subscriber chat. It's free to join and the best way to interact with the community: pickleburner.substack.com/.
Your content is fantastic. The way you breakdown the details and instruction is helpful and is easy to put into use on the court. Off topic, coming from a loyal Legacy paddle owner I couldn’t help but notice in some of your earlier videos in tournaments you were using the Legacy paddle. Did you just switch to the Selkirk paddle and if you don’t mind me asking why ?
Thx
Matt
thank you! i got sponsored by them. i like both paddles! @@mattpatrick8254
Don't forget a very important fact... let more of their high blasted balls go. When a banger steps into the midcourt or 2/3 court to drive a ball that sail above the chest, then avoid avoid avoid. Even with a lot of topspin, there isn't much distance left for the ball to stay in play. Btw, great video.
YES!
A couple of things to add, bangers don't like to play slow. So try and get them up to the kitchen line dinking.
Also, as someone else commented (or asked), serving a slow, loopy, deep, topspin serve almost eliminates them banging a return. They have to generate the pace. And a lot of the times courts don't have that much room on the ends.
And lastly, really sink into your athletic stance and get ready. Have a no fear mentality.
Your video is telling the real truth, unlike some other videos that are trying to make people feel that magic can happen if they follow what the video says. Specific to the context, I feel like I need to reinforce the strategy. Sometimes I made the wrong choice just because I thought I can make magic happen. Next, it all comes down to drill you mentioned. Need to improve the consistency.
The focus on fundamentals like these is missing from a lot of other pickleball UA-camrs. Your videos are great 👍
Obviously.. its like comparing the top Chinese player with just ping pong players in general. The entirety of China is one billion strong. Any auntie can play ping pong and you ask why Chinese van bang the ball. Auntie is finished. You get gapped hard. The gap in pickleball is non existent if you compare the scales even if you normalised the distribution. In other words there is no comparison because a ping pong or tennis pro will easily beat a pickleball player...
@@rogomerlinthegamer8305 what is this hater ass comment lol
Great video (your content is overall very thoughtful .) I completely relate to this as I play with former college tennis players as well. Your strategies are solid. I describe them as “drivers” as they will drive the ball hard if given any useful altitude on a return (bounce or volley). I find that getting low at the kitchen line helps block and reset their drives- the shorter distance between paddle and eyes improves accuracy. Also try to reflect their drives at their feet as much as possible. Please consider doing a video on reset shots from the transition zone- would be helpful for any pointers on that difficult skill.
A major factor is to figure out what bangers want. They love forhands especially high short balls down the middle. Dont give that to them. Give them low shots to the BACKHAND.
Yes it takes training but if you can take the time to hit deep returns, now just hit deep to the backhand.
If they runaround it, the forehand they now hit wont have the same pace as a step in forehand.
Just my two cents
Good stuff. Love the focus on the first four shots and their impact on overall play. Thanks for putting this video together and sharing it.
Great analysis Pickleballer! Very helpful tips on how to play bangers by breaking down the shots that are setting them up. Will watch this one again & again! 🏓💥
Love love your honest channel and comments! So helpful for me in dealing with bangers.
Great video! A lot of the "how to beat bangers," videos only apply to lower level strategy. This is the first video that addresses banging at the the higher/highest level. Great analysis and break down of goal/knowledge/execution! Loved the part at the end saying how "its not a knowledge issue anymore its execution."
This was such an amazing video!! I really appreciate your content!
Hey, love your channel. Great content and you do a great job of explaining your strategy! Subscribed, keep ‘em coming!!!
Great vid. Even with 5.0+ skills, the focus on the fundamentals is still critical
Love it. Breaking it down and find solutions data-driven and systematically 😊
This is great info! Exactly what I've been looking for, thank you!
I'd love to see the full footage of these games!
Great work by the way, love the channel.
thanks! I've posted them to the Inner Circle subscriber chat. It's free to join and the best way to interact with the community: pickleburner.substack.com/
The worst feeling is getting overpowered by a big hitter. Thanks for the tips 🔥
Honestly best pickleball UA-camr 👏
Fantastic analysis! I have slowly come to the understanding that the shot before the drive or put away is the reason bangers are able to push me around. Additionally, I have started staterd to attack weak returns or serves or 4th shots from my opponents...my game has sky 🚀...Thanks again for your analysis 🎉
Great video and great advice. I like how you breakdown every part of the serve to the 4th shot and how we can defend ourselves from ex-tennis pros, I play them in my own gym and they crush us all the time.
This is sweet! Wish I knew this about 4 years ago lol. Way to break it down!
Great video! Dealt with this situation the other day exactly... it was frustrating. This is a good breakdown of the solution.
Love all your vids bro. Keep them coming 🫡
Loved the analysis
Great video. I love all the breakdowns and strategy involved. This game is so nuanced and layered. No wonder people call it STANDING CHESS
Good video. I'll be looking for more.
Tony…it’s Mark from Maxam. Love the content. Super helpful…beating bangers is something I’ve been researching for a while. Played in a tournament recently, and we played a team of bangers.
One thing that worked well for us, was limiting the opponents’ opportunities to take big swings. We brought them to the kitchen, and outdinked them.
Also, big, topspin lob serves, are hard to rip, so those were effective too.
And our story ended similarly to yours. 😂.
We still lost, 15-10, but we played them tight.
hey mark!
Very good plan and strategy, it makes sense. I will try in next game.
Good video. Don't mind the haters. You had a problem and broke it down into steps to fix it. I also appreciate the honesty at the end. Keep up the good work.
I am curious as to why the deep high lob is not used more as the second shot (return of serve)? Deep high lobs tend to mess people up trying to return them as it poses too many choices as to when to return them after the bounce and also allows the weather to play a bigger part outdoors (wind or sun in your eyes for example). Thoughts??
Great stuff! I love the visual that the spreadsheet gives you so you can analyze the game and pinpoint what is impacting your game. It’s an excellent to self-scout. I’m sure you would rather have a direct view from behind but the court is sick!
I watched your video and analysed my play. I try to do all that you note. It boils down to skill or LACK of skill. I just have to accept for now, some are just better than me.
Great vid 🎉
Great, cerebral content. Thanks!
Best information I've seen
Do you think it’s better to hit deep, slow, high serves against bangers so they have to generate their own power rather than using your pace against you?
Softer returns, with very little spin, that peak at about 6-8 feet have been effective for me. My goal is to block the ball back, with essentially no backswing, making contact in front of me. I start a few feet back from the line so I can take a step up as the ball is being hit, then keep my momentum going as I block the ball back and get to the kitchen comfortably. With a compact backswing, I can return deep pretty consistently.
It is 100% what you should do. They hate it
Love this content! Drive fo' life!
11:23 Excellent, thoughtful advice!
Great video, got totally hammered and frustrated playing a banger the other day and I’ve been itching for rematch with a better plan. This is the plan I was looking for!
Solid advice
Something else to consider is backspin on return of serve it keeps the ball low and makes it more difficult to hit topspin. Lastly take pace off everything nothing bangers like more is players who want to out hit them.
Love the videos, keep up the good work!
Slice returns give free topspin to really good bangers. That's why you don't see the pros use slice returns as much anymore.
@@Reck1025True, but it does require them to get under the ball to get it over the net. Maybe don't put too much backspin on it. More of a floater?
Great cerebral approach
Try luring them into the transition zone and give them low balls to bang. Then, just get out of the way!
I feel like the most fundamental and hardest park of pickleball is getting that 3rd shot drop. Or any drops in general. By getting yourself back to the kitchen and being able to reset and situation you'll be a solid player. Just my opinion
totally agree getting to the kitchen is priority #1
A point that could have been emphasized more following your excellent type of analysis is that bangers = pace = less TIME. Pace reduces time to react and creates more pressure. More pressure leads to errors. Some of the things you did to counter was to give yourself more time and reduce the pressure. Taking time away from your opponents in almost every sport is a good strategy. The next aspect is to be ready. Having the paddle up and ready gives you more time to react. If you always expect them to put pace on the ball, then you will always be ready. If they still hit an excellent shot down the middle that you can't touch then just say "nice shot".
Also, make sure to return at feet, they will bang out!
your neighbors must love you
Would you say your returns have very little spin? Or tend to have top or back spin?
I try to block the ball back, using very compact backswing, with very little spin and land it in the back 1/3 of the court.
If I try to get fancier and put side spin or aim too close to the sidelines, I am much less consistent.
yeah i just block it pretty flat
That guys serve is like Bar’s serve. So fast!
awesome video, lots to take in . I find the music distracting tho. Thanks for putting this together
My honest advice is to practice your serves to increase speed and depth. Strategies only matter when you are playing against opponents at similar level. You need to improve your shots to compete against the better players.
Great video! Where are you located?
socal
@@pickleburnerwhereabouts in socal?
Can you please make a video on how to hit a return Spin serve? There's a few guys in my gym that servie the ball with a crazy spin and everytime I hit it, the ball either goes left or right out of bounds- or into the net. Thanks. btw, Im a left hander. so please help me from that angle. thanks.
hmm i'd try just aiming for the middle but i'd be surprised if someone is getting so much sidespin on a legal serve that it's causing your return to jet out wide
Great video. Ignore the people who are commenting that it is obvious or you took too long to say what you said.
What brand is that green shirt??
Can we see the full games? 😅
I've posted them to the Inner Circle subscriber chat. It's free to join and the best way to interact with the community: pickleburner.substack.com/
Good content. 🤓
As others have said, you missed the most important tactic of letting many of those balls go out.
I saw twice where you should have let the ball go out ! That slows them down !
i'm so bad at that
With bangers, it helps to have a high control type paddle. Also, I aim for their body or backhand when they are at the net.
Got a link to a full match by chance?
Hey Gary, I posted them to the Inner Circle subscriber chat. You can join and see them (for free) at pickleburner.substack.com.
@@pickleburner Thanks!
When in doubt just do drop shot 😅
What's the top tip you learned from playing against them? Can't wait to use your strategies in my next game!
Background music is a little too loud. Really like your channel, breakdowns, explanations. Keep 'em coming. 👍
thanks! will tune down next vid
What do you mean with “big crash”?
rushing the net to take the fourth out of the air, hitting it hard to try to win the point or set up an easy ball to put away
Deep serves and returns are generally the best tactics against any player, not just bangers. I'm not sure why a table needed to be constructed after the first match to emphasize this.
What Paddle was Braylon using?
Sorry I meant Blaine
@@mykyproano2777 I could be wrong since it's hard to see the design on the paddle, but its possibly a Bread and Butter Filth with the white edge guard and white grip.
i think it's a holbrook
Hi, I love the video, the analysis and the tips. The music choice however makes me very anxious. Perhaps no music so we can take in what you are saying? The music is really distracting and too fast paced for such thoughtful commentary. Others may disagree...just my thoughts. Thanks!
Also, if you know you are playing bangers make sure you supply the balls, make them slower brands, too.
You missed the point they aren’t bangers. What they are doing is a fast top spin drop shot. It’s the hardest to control. Most people just hit it hard and flat which is easy to disarm. You need the paddle further out in front of you at the net and just let it bounce back at them at half court.
Victor, my 5.0 friend, told me to target every player low to their backhand on serves, returns, etc. What do you think?
Bangers >
I hate to sound like this but he just said to do all the things you should be doing no matter who you are playing.
keep the ball low...like in tennis... for big slow guys
Good video, but Christ, the G'dm ads on UA-cam now make it almost unwatchable.
New "subber" here. Liked your breakdown on bangers. I didn't see any shots to their left shoulder. I personally never step on the court w/o eye-pro especially when I know my banger. No judgement, just sayin. I found that if I find a weak spot to aim for, a "banger" will "head hunt.
honestly good call i need to wear glasses more often
I skipped ahead to 10:44. The big guy with black top and black hat hits an illegal serve every time.
I mean, your guidance isn't wrong. But it's just a really complicated way of arriving at the same basic fundamental strategy that we always use: get a good deep serve, get a good deep return, get to the kitchen fast. How is this different from playing against non-bangers?
good observation!
The first serve shown at @1:30 is not legal. This dopey sport can’t even police the serve. I had to slow to 0.25 to catch it.
I’m an intelligent banger not like other usual bangers
i'm not like the other bangers hahaha
Cut out the background tunes plz.
thanks for flagging! will improve next vid
appreciate the video but it ended up being a long winded way of saying “deep serve sets up a make-able 3rd and deep return makes 3rd shot drive less potent.” Thank you nonetheless.
oops! thanks for the catch
How about the fact that some of the serves look very questionable? I think a lot of people are getting away with illegal serves and the fact that the PB governing bodies and tournaments don’t do anything about it doesn’t help.
In tennis, you have a lot more scenarios where you're on the move, while also having to hit a runaway tennis ball;
How to deal with different types of playstyles, and you have different weather conditions, too.
In pickleball, just stand further back against huge bangers, and go nuts in the kitchen. LITERALLY ALL YOU REALLY HAVE TO DO.
Plus, being good at a totally different sport, shouldn't be able to translate ALL THE SKILLS NEEDED TO PLAY. Take skiing, and rock climbing, for example; two totally different sports in various seasons, but have some similarities into how the hands are utilized in each environment.
Pickleball & Tennis ARE LITERALLY THE SAME SPORT, BECAUSE Y'ALL USE PART OF A TENNIS COURT, JUST WITH A SMOL DONK TYPE OF NET.
Point is, if you're gonna play pickleball, take out MOST OF THE ILLOGICAL BS RULES, and you got yourself a non-gambling, shits and giggles, Non-Olympic sport. It's like street handball, became the boujee version of team handball, but just not televised; and played more recreationally.
When you play tennis and come over to pickleball thinking you’ll be 5.0 in 2 weeks, but get smoked by 60+ 4.0’s because you were never even that good at tennis in the first place, this is the comment you spend 20 minutes typing to make yourself feel better.
Again, this is a sport for people who are too poor for golf, and too unathletic for tennis. Y'all do this sh** for fun. This won't be an olympic sport, because this is a sport within an sport, which doesn't not flow with gambling, either.
great insight
Only Americans think it will be an Olympic sport. In other countries, the fastest growing sport is padel. Which requires way more athletism.
This game is a joke
it really is fun!
You're not wrong.... See you at the courts
Too much thought. Go out and have fun.
This is advice for competitive pickleball and people who like to strategize their game play 🤣 and win 🫣
No shit. Do you know what an oxymoron is?
Looking at your face burns lol
Also, make sure to return at feet, they will bang out!