100% agreed, same thing happening here in Ireland, i blame the surge of new members since the covid nonsense, we have guys that dont call through, don't fix plug marks, divots or rake bunkers properly, even not getting the pin when they finish first, talking whilst your playing, like i said earlier we were caddies back in the 70s and you learned the rules of golf and the integrity of the game plus etiquette rules. Something clubs need to take on board and have a course or something for new members to learn before being accepted by the club.
There are a lot of self entitled people everywhere these days including golf courses/clubs unfortunately. Poorly/unraked bunkers, pitch marks not repaired & not being called through are common issues at my golf club as well.
Hear hear! Back in the day when I was a nipper, and I’m 67, memberships were the purvey of private clubs and it was do as you’re told or find another club. One was taught those things we take for granted, pitch marks, raking bunkers, where the rake goes (the green keepers preference and the players preference), divots and how to repair, where to stand/walk, punctuality all that stuff. And It’s not just the newer players that are guilty, I play with plenty of vintage golfers who should know better who just don’t care anymore. I put it down to the explosion of public courses with a membership attached. The green fee player are often the issue and the conscientious member is fighting an uphill battle to maintain the etiquette. To a degree it’s an “if you can’t beat them join them” mentality. To my surprise some members have not been through the private club initiation and don’t have a clue how to properly repair a pitch, divot, bunker etc. and it’s a token effort at best. Some are new to paying subs and feel it’s the groundsmans job to do the work, I pay my fees blah blah. Regardless, I hear what you say and I agree, etiquette is not quite dead but it’s on a ventilator.
Etiquette is sadly being pushed to the rear in the interest of Pace=of-Play. The Rules, Etiquette, Integrity and Good Manners are all being ignored to get you to run around the golf course. Even the nicety that was "tending the flag" is being lost to PofP. Next time you're out,. just look back to the green and watch the lone golfer, putting out.
Completely agree here, the push for pace of play is a massive factor and the rest seems to get forgotten. Hard to address this issue without being labelled a golf snob but the level of golfers ability seems to be dropping as the game pushes to expand and include everyone, golf is hard!There has been a huge influx of new players since covid and despite the R&As best efforts to speed up play it just isn’t happening. Level of ability and lack of education being the main issues IMO. It would also help if people were actually picked up on their lack of compliance
Don't comment very often but you're spot on with this video and it needed to be made. It starts with learning the game. Are we teaching the next generation of players the way we were taught? I'm thinking not.
Needed to be said and you said it well; it’s world wide, I live in NZ and everything you experienced we do too and been the subject of discussion at the 19th hole 🍻
@ The only difference I can see is that when I was younger, it was a privilege to play on a good golf course and you were frightened to do anything wrong for fear of being kicked out. Today, apart from an “I’m entitled” attitude, golf clubs are struggling to survive so need the attendance and fear them leaving; not a good synopsis for the future of golf unfortunately.
Couldn't agree more, my wife works at a golf club here in Australia & 5.5 - 6 hour rounds happen sometimes ,mostly on weekends. Sometimes in the winter months people are coming in after the light's gone & wanting a refund, I learned to play at a golf club where you had to observe not only the rules but the etiquette, like you say in the last 5 - 10 years or so it's got worse, especially since covid. I don't know what the answer is? I stopped playing in comps because it was taking up most of the day, I wouldn't mind they go round in buggies but it doesn't make it any faster, 18 holes should take 4hrs 15 - 4 hrs 30 tops.
You are perfectly correct. I joined a golf club last century and had to attend an interview to assess if I were "acceptable" being informed that if you play in a competition and came in the prizes you would be expected to attend the monthly awards or send your apologies. A jacket and tie would be a taken. I was asked questions about not only being on the course but what was expected in the clubhouse, in the car park i.e don't clean the grass of your shoes etc and dress code. After being accepted I had to play a round with the pro, simple things like you are expected to carry a pitch repair tool and how to use it. Then 3 rounds with experienced members again things like don't take trollies between a greenside bunker and the green and certainly don't take a buggie. As you say waving a group through just doesn't happen. The attitude of people has changed as well we have had and seen a group behind complaining they are having to wait to take there shot, yes because you are all riding in buggies!! Buggies were not allowed to be used in competitions but now anything goes because money is the driving factor under the pretext of "Inclusion". I could go on about bunkers, divot replacement even littering. Formality and etiquette are now a thing of the past so what do they expect from people using the club?
Followed three 'non golfers' today Craig. Caught them up by the third hole and was stuck behind them, without calling through for the following 15holes. Don't even get me started on pitchmarks...that's just ignorant and rude. Between Debi and myself we did over 40 on one of our par threes last week and over twenty is a regular occurrence 🤷♂️ Being ready to play is another 😡
@ScratchAt50 Anything to move it along Craig. If I'm playing by myself its probably two and three quarter to three hours, depending on how much chopping round the greens I do. With Debi and the boys its three possibly three and a quarter. Comps...as you say FAR TOO LONG!
Totally agree. Recently visited a club, (invited by a member), fell foul of a group of four ladies who teed off on the tenth as we putting out on the ninth. Held us up big time for the back nine. All four going to each others shots, chatting and marking cards on the green. Refused to let us through. Even complained to my playing partner as he was chipping to the green because they thought he should wait for them to tee off. Two groups behind us walked off course because of delay. Rant over…..
I could not agree more. Nothing pisses me off more than an unraked bunker or pitch marks on the green. Often made by the older members. It’s not fashioned it is courtesy. But club committees are primarily to blame. How often to they remind members these things should be done and are expected to be done. Clubs expect faster play. Then cut the rough so a player can find their ball. Not have buried in grass inches deep. If players don’t like playing by standards of consideration for other players. Ask them to leave the club. I’ll bet membership will not fall.
I played golf at a very nice club in Scotland in the '80s, the after a 33 year hiatus, I got back into it a little over 20 months ago. I can not believe how bad human etiquette is these days, never mind golf etiquette! The littering is outrageous! I had-it-out with the general manager of a "county club" I joined 16 months ago, telling him that the greenskeepers, visitors and members need a punt up the poo-hole, and he told me that none of my concerns could be true because golf etiquette wouldn't allow for it! Utter nonsense! There is no golf etiquette in the mass majority of clubs now! He blamed dog walkers for the littering on course, and I had to point out to him that I see dog walkers throwing golf ball packets all over the local parks and streets all of the time too!! Jeez! So many managers of courses, and green keepers, have their heads buried in a bunker with this one! It drives me crazy! I carried a bin liner in my bag for a year, and over that subscription I picked up about 10 bin liners full of beer bottles and cans, energy drinks cans, golf ball packets, cigarette packets, e-cigarettes, chocolate bar wrappers, Haribo packaging, plastic tees and split golf balls. The bunkers on most courses are terrible, the fairway and tee divots are shocking and the pitch marks on the greens are just wrong! There has been a change in human behaviour in general. You don't even get a wave or a cheers from 90% of drivers when you're courteous on single track roads, or letting people out of junctions or allowing someone past parked vehicles. You're not an old fart, you're just telling the truth, and the truth is a damn shame!
Yes etiquette and honestly and many other things are slowly deteriorating. No doubt. Pitch marks Most People are terrible at fixing them anyway. Bunkers since Covid: many people think it’s not a thing to rake them anymore. Golf needs stricter pace of play rules. But as I said before sometimes letting people play through slows things down even more; if the course is crowded. I tried to play through these ladies that stunk like hell but they got so mad. The course was so crowded. So maybe they weren’t as slow as it seemed. But still no one wants to play behind that. I do very much agree a rules and etiquette, especially honestly test makes sense. Even munis could do things like this to keep the special values of the sport going.
100% agreed, same thing happening here in Ireland, i blame the surge of new members since the covid nonsense, we have guys that dont call through, don't fix plug marks, divots or rake bunkers properly, even not getting the pin when they finish first, talking whilst your playing, like i said earlier we were caddies back in the 70s and you learned the rules of golf and the integrity of the game plus etiquette rules. Something clubs need to take on board and have a course or something for new members to learn before being accepted by the club.
The R&A and USGA need to step up to the plate here to stop the decline.
There are a lot of self entitled people everywhere these days including golf courses/clubs unfortunately.
Poorly/unraked bunkers, pitch marks not repaired & not being called through are common issues at my golf club as well.
Thanks for the comment David, i think its common across the amateur game now
Hear hear! Back in the day when I was a nipper, and I’m 67, memberships were the purvey of private clubs and it was do as you’re told or find another club. One was taught those things we take for granted, pitch marks, raking bunkers, where the rake goes (the green keepers preference and the players preference), divots and how to repair, where to stand/walk, punctuality all that stuff. And It’s not just the newer players that are guilty, I play with plenty of vintage golfers who should know better who just don’t care anymore.
I put it down to the explosion of public courses with a membership attached. The green fee player are often the issue and the conscientious member is fighting an uphill battle to maintain the etiquette. To a degree it’s an “if you can’t beat them join them” mentality. To my surprise some members have not been through the private club initiation and don’t have a clue how to properly repair a pitch, divot, bunker etc. and it’s a token effort at best. Some are new to paying subs and feel it’s the groundsmans job to do the work, I pay my fees blah blah.
Regardless, I hear what you say and I agree, etiquette is not quite dead but it’s on a ventilator.
Glad im not the only one Mick.
Be interesting to see the comments when this video goes live tomorrow.
Totally agree with you Mick 👍
Etiquette is sadly being pushed to the rear in the interest of Pace=of-Play. The Rules, Etiquette, Integrity and Good Manners are all being ignored to get you to run around the golf course. Even the nicety that was "tending the flag" is being lost to PofP. Next time you're out,. just look back to the green and watch the lone golfer, putting out.
I wish I could say ive noticed an increase in pace of play during this drop in etiquette.
Both have dropped in my experience
Completely agree here, the push for pace of play is a massive factor and the rest seems to get forgotten. Hard to address this issue without being labelled a golf snob but the level of golfers ability seems to be dropping as the game pushes to expand and include everyone, golf is hard!There has been a huge influx of new players since covid and despite the R&As best efforts to speed up play it just isn’t happening. Level of ability and lack of education being the main issues IMO. It would also help if people were actually picked up on their lack of compliance
I think golfers should have to watch a video and then take a test to be certified to play golf AND with a renewal test every year.
Totally agree
Don't comment very often but you're spot on with this video and it needed to be made. It starts with learning the game. Are we teaching the next generation of players the way we were taught? I'm thinking not.
Im thinking not as well.
Always great to hear from you and know you have been along for the whole journey..
Needed to be said and you said it well; it’s world wide, I live in NZ and everything you experienced we do too and been the subject of discussion at the 19th hole 🍻
From all the comments it seems endemic in golf rather than just here in the UK
@ The only difference I can see is that when I was younger, it was a privilege to play on a good golf course and you were frightened to do anything wrong for fear of being kicked out. Today, apart from an “I’m entitled” attitude, golf clubs are struggling to survive so need the attendance and fear them leaving; not a good synopsis for the future of golf unfortunately.
Couldn't agree more, my wife works at a golf club here in Australia & 5.5 - 6 hour rounds happen sometimes ,mostly on weekends. Sometimes in the winter months people are coming in after the light's gone & wanting a refund,
I learned to play at a golf club where you had to observe not only the rules but the etiquette, like you say in the last 5 - 10 years or so it's got worse, especially since covid.
I don't know what the answer is? I stopped playing in comps because it was taking up most of the day, I wouldn't mind they go round in buggies but it doesn't make it any faster, 18 holes should take 4hrs 15 - 4 hrs 30 tops.
Completely agree 4hrs 30 should be standard for a round of golf
You are perfectly correct. I joined a golf club last century and had to attend an interview to assess if I were "acceptable" being informed that if you play in a competition and came in the prizes you would be expected to attend the monthly awards or send your apologies. A jacket and tie would be a taken. I was asked questions about not only being on the course but what was expected in the clubhouse, in the car park i.e don't clean the grass of your shoes etc and dress code. After being accepted I had to play a round with the pro, simple things like you are expected to carry a pitch repair tool and how to use it. Then 3 rounds with experienced members again things like don't take trollies between a greenside bunker and the green and certainly don't take a buggie. As you say waving a group through just doesn't happen. The attitude of people has changed as well we have had and seen a group behind complaining they are having to wait to take there shot, yes because you are all riding in buggies!! Buggies were not allowed to be used in competitions but now anything goes because money is the driving factor under the pretext of "Inclusion". I could go on about bunkers, divot replacement even littering. Formality and etiquette are now a thing of the past so what do they expect from people using the club?
Yes its a worrying decline that needs to be addressed.
Followed three 'non golfers' today Craig. Caught them up by the third hole and was stuck behind them, without calling through for the following 15holes.
Don't even get me started on pitchmarks...that's just ignorant and rude. Between Debi and myself we did over 40 on one of our par threes last week and over twenty is a regular occurrence 🤷♂️
Being ready to play is another 😡
Yeah get your rangefinder yardage while your playing partners are playing would help.
@ScratchAt50 Anything to move it along Craig. If I'm playing by myself its probably two and three quarter to three hours, depending on how much chopping round the greens I do. With Debi and the boys its three possibly three and a quarter. Comps...as you say FAR TOO LONG!
Same thing here in the USA…bunkers not raked, tees strewn about the tee box, divots not replaced, pitch marks on greens. Sad state of affairs.
sad state of affairs and very frustrating as its so easily avoided.
Unraked bunkers. We’re thinking of allowing lift, rake and drop if it lands in a poorly raked bunker. Sometimes the footprints are ridiculous.
That sounds like a sensible solution to me Chris
Totally agree. Recently visited a club, (invited by a member), fell foul of a group of four ladies who teed off on the tenth as we putting out on the ninth. Held us up big time for the back nine. All four going to each others shots, chatting and marking cards on the green. Refused to let us through. Even complained to my playing partner as he was chipping to the green because they thought he should wait for them to tee off. Two groups behind us walked off course because of delay. Rant over…..
Nothing worse than when something out of your control is ruining your day/round
bunker are not even remotely racked unless you are in a competition and THEN even - sometimes still NOT ranked
No excuse for that under any circumstances Chris
I could not agree more. Nothing pisses me off more than an unraked
bunker or pitch marks on the green. Often made by the older members. It’s not fashioned it is courtesy. But club committees are primarily to blame. How often to they remind members these things should be done and are expected to be done. Clubs expect faster play. Then cut the rough so a player can find their ball. Not have buried in grass inches deep. If players don’t like playing by standards of consideration for other players. Ask them to leave the club. I’ll bet membership will not fall.
The unraked bunker is the most frustrating of all.. No Excuse
I played golf at a very nice club in Scotland in the '80s, the after a 33 year hiatus, I got back into it a little over 20 months ago. I can not believe how bad human etiquette is these days, never mind golf etiquette! The littering is outrageous! I had-it-out with the general manager of a "county club" I joined 16 months ago, telling him that the greenskeepers, visitors and members need a punt up the poo-hole, and he told me that none of my concerns could be true because golf etiquette wouldn't allow for it! Utter nonsense! There is no golf etiquette in the mass majority of clubs now! He blamed dog walkers for the littering on course, and I had to point out to him that I see dog walkers throwing golf ball packets all over the local parks and streets all of the time too!! Jeez! So many managers of courses, and green keepers, have their heads buried in a bunker with this one! It drives me crazy! I carried a bin liner in my bag for a year, and over that subscription I picked up about 10 bin liners full of beer bottles and cans, energy drinks cans, golf ball packets, cigarette packets, e-cigarettes, chocolate bar wrappers, Haribo packaging, plastic tees and split golf balls. The bunkers on most courses are terrible, the fairway and tee divots are shocking and the pitch marks on the greens are just wrong! There has been a change in human behaviour in general. You don't even get a wave or a cheers from 90% of drivers when you're courteous on single track roads, or letting people out of junctions or allowing someone past parked vehicles. You're not an old fart, you're just telling the truth, and the truth is a damn shame!
Glad to hear im not an old fart ...... yet :-)
Yes etiquette and honestly and many other things are slowly deteriorating. No doubt.
Pitch marks
Most People are terrible at fixing them anyway.
Bunkers since Covid: many people think it’s not a thing to rake them anymore.
Golf needs stricter pace of play rules. But as I said before sometimes letting people play through slows things down even more; if the course is crowded.
I tried to play through these ladies that stunk like hell but they got so mad. The course was so crowded. So maybe they weren’t as slow as it seemed. But still no one wants to play behind that.
I do very much agree a rules and etiquette, especially honestly test makes sense. Even munis could do things like this to keep the special values of the sport going.
An etiquette test for new members seems like a simple solution to me.
@ but you may also need some material for them: some text to read or a a video.. or better yet a little course run by some decent golfer in his 50s.
i thought this was only America, I dreamed that the UK was above this
That is just a dream I'm afraid 🤦