Did somebody mention aircraft carriers? - you have my attention!!!!😁 The development of carriers from an 'interesting idea' to the major fleet carriers of WW2 in around 30 years, is an amazing story of technological and military progress. The carrier becomes the new premier capital ship with a strike range of hundreds of miles from the carrier. Thank you Bruce & Woody, I never get tired of seeing informative shows of this kind.
Thanks to you and Bruce for the great overview on Allied carriers. One correction... Aircraft from USS RANGER did carry out a raid in October 1943 against German shipping off Bodø, Norway as part of a British task force. My grandfather Gordon Rowe was her skipper for that operation, code-named LEADER.
They have found and recovered some aircraft from the Great Lakes training carriers. One is at O'Hare International Airport, an F4F Wildcat made to look like Butch O'Hare's Wildcat, and an SBD Dauntless which is on display at Midway Airport - both in Chicago. Midway Airport is named for the Battle of Midway.
I knew they had pulled some WWII airplanes from the Great Lakes but didn't make the connection. FYI: in the greater Vanuatu area there are over 400 Allied planes that went down in the jungle and surrounding seas, and it was not even a combat area.
Wow. That is amazing. One a trip through Midway Airport changing planes, my wife and I passed under the Dauntless and they had put up a nice display about the Battle of Midway. Three younger college age guys walked under the Dauntless after us and one looked up and said, "cool airplane." I turned around and remarked, "the Japanese didn't think so!" Enjoyed your program.
An excellent overview of US carriers from the beginning through WW2. I really appreciated the inclusion of the training carriers, USS Sable & USS Wolverine. It would be great to have a show on these two interesting and incredibly valuable carriers.
The superstructure being on the starboard side is due to the prevailing wind direction, the port side would create wind yar but as piston engines tend to yar to the right, it gave more room for landing operations and lately with the angled flight deck it was for balance of the ship
I'm glad that I took the time to watch this fine presentation. I appreciated the look back at the general history of the development of the Aircraft Carrier, their crucial role in the Pacific War, and how they have developed since them. As my late father was a Aviation Machinist Mate (Jet) aboard USS Forrestal (CV-59) and USS Saratoga (CV-60) in the late 1950's, serving in the famous VF-101, which had it's heritage with VF-10 from WW2, I have always been fascinated with Carriers. Bruce has given us all much to think about as to the future of these game changing ships. Thanks a bunch.
Sorry I had to miss it live. Very interesting with his background serving on carriers. I had no idea of some of the early history he mentioned. Thanks Bruce! Thanks for another good one Woody!!
Thanks for this gentlemen. Fun facts about HJ Kaiser. In the 1910s his family owned a cement factory in California located on a perennial creek. During the depression, he was a prime contractor building the Hoover, Bonneville, and Grand Coulee Dams. Workers and their nearby families needed medical care and Kaiser's medical system was an early model for work-linked health insurance (and HMOs) that still characterizes the odd US approach to health insurance. The name of the California creek? "Permanente" -- hence Kaiser Permanente.. A ductile-brittle transition researcher Dr. Constance Tipper at Cambridge figured out Kaiser's Liberty ship temperature related steel brittleness problems. Early on, this urgent issue resulted in ~1,500 cracked bulkheads/ports/doors and ~12 catastrophic hull failures. I'd love to see a show on her remarkable story if anyone knows of someone qualified.
I read somewhere over the years that a joke in the USN late in the Pacific War was a USN CV takes a Kamikaze it's 6 months in Pearl, a RN CV takes a Kamikaze it's sweepers man your brooms.
Correct. I realized my mistake after it was too late; what I refer to as a verbal typo. And since I don't use notes, I do that from time to time. Thanks for catching that.
Every technological break-through in offensive or defensive capability is countered by something in the opposite category. We have to keep investing in R&D.
And Woody was correct With the Naval Aviation museum. The Fleet Air Arm Museum is at Yeovilton (I'm currently 2 miles from there lol). It's only close to London if you are an American hehe. It's a 3 hour drive.
Eight carrier landings l believe was the norm to qualify. I have my father's flight log. A May 1944 entry shows eight landings on the USS Sable one day in Lake Michigan near Chicago. Then the stamped entry in that page with the training offocers signature under the word 'Qualified'. It was a 1.9 hour flight in SBD 10378 from NAS Glenview north of Chicago.
Im interested in a frank and honest discussion about the bombing of hellships and the thousands of U.K. and allied forces who lost their lives. My own grandfather was on three survived two thankfully taken off the third day before it was sunk
@ thank you , look forward to that, it is a topic I'm extremely interested in and also after liberation, little is known of the hospitals etc that fepows were taken to build their health up in America
Another one of my presentations is about submarine in the Pacific War, and I do talk about the Hell Ships. When I was a kid growing up in Sunnyvale, California, one of my neighbors survived the Bataan Death March and the sinking of two Hell Ships.
@ I look forward to that, my grandfather was as follows 1944/07/04 - Transported in Hofuku Maru (Tofuku Maru) with Japan Party 2 within Convoy SHIMI-05 1944/07/08 - Left convoy and stopped at Mira, Borneo and stayed 3 wks. with engine trouble 1944/09/12 - 52 sick taken ashore at Manila, Philippines. 1944/09/20 - The Hofuku Maru joined MATA-27 Convoy of ten ships and sailed from Manila to Japan. 1944/09/21 - The convoy was attacked by American planes and all ten ships were sunk with 997 deaths. The survivors were taken to Cabanatuan Camp, Philippines. . 1944/10/13 - Sailed in Oryoko Maru, destination Japan with 1620 PoWs mostly Americans, 50 British, mostly from the Hofuku Maru sinking. 1944/10/15 - The Oryoko Maru was attacked off Bataan by US Navy planes from USS Hornet and was also sunk. PoWs managed to swim to shore but 270 PoWs died in the sinking. 1944/12/27 - The survivors were loaded into the Enoura Maru and Brazil Maru at Lingayen Bay, Philippines and set sail for Japan stopping at Taiwan. The 37 British being on board the Enoura Maru. 1944/12/31 - Arrived at Takao, Taiwan and the British were taken off the Enoura Maru and the smaller group of prisoners on the Brazil Maru were transferred to the larger Enoura Maru. 1945/01/09 - The Enoura Maru was attacked in the harbour and badly damaged by American aircraft from USS Hornet with 350 PoW deaths.
Superstructure is port, because the pilot is in left seat on side by side aircraft, and therefore have carrier in sight at all times, and second, normal approach is flown in left hand patterns at all times!!
(1) Thank you to the UK for lending us HMS Victorious/USS Robin when poor Enterprise was a Navy of One; (2) UK armored flight decks proved really effective for shrugging off kamikazes.
I would have to go back and double check, but as I recall from earlier reading, the armored flight deck had something to do with it. The flight deck and the hanger deck was like a box of thick steel/ But again, I need to double check.
The smaller hanger due to armour box and US and Japanese employed deck parking. The Illustrious class was design to carry 36 aircraft with a hanger area of 456 ft x 62 ft and a height of 16ft. Overall length of 740 ft and a beam 95 ft 9 inches and displacement of 28,210 In 1945 when the Illustrious was in the pacific it was carrying 53 aircraft. The Yorktown class hanger was 546 ft x 63 feet and a height of 17.5 ft with an Airgroup of 72 plus Overall length 770 feet and a beam of 109 ft 6 inches and a displacement of 24,128. See Tony the cost of the armour and the decision of no deck parking due to operating in the North Sea and the Atlantic. The British carriers were just smaller.
@@johnlucas8479 Thanks for filling in the details. I have them as well, but would have to go through my many books to find that information. You have saved me the trouble. Thanks again.
@@johnlucas8479 From the records i've read it looks like the British didn't improve them until around 1944, when their carriers could carry about 81 - 83 aircraft like HMS Implacable and HMS Indefatigable etc. In 1941 The Royal Navy wasn't exactly designed to operate in the Pacific. Distances were greater in the Pacific, and the Royal Navy ships had shorter ranges than their American and Japanese counterparts too. What the British did experiment well with IMO was launching night strikes like the raids on the Italian fleet. But in terms of carrier groups and mass strikes they were well behind earlier in the war.
@ I would if I thought I could live up to the excellent content most of your contributors come up with. This space is normally full of real depth and detail so it is a surprise when you cover something in less than forensic detail.
But sometimes we go back to basics with content that covers subjects from an introductory point of view. Like the "in context" ones with Alan Allport for example. But as it happened, most people enjoyed this carrier show
Did somebody mention aircraft carriers? - you have my attention!!!!😁 The development of carriers from an 'interesting idea' to the major fleet carriers of WW2 in around 30 years, is an amazing story of technological and military progress. The carrier becomes the new premier capital ship with a strike range of hundreds of miles from the carrier.
Thank you Bruce & Woody, I never get tired of seeing informative shows of this kind.
Thanks to you and Bruce for the great overview on Allied carriers. One correction... Aircraft from USS RANGER did carry out a raid in October 1943 against German shipping off Bodø, Norway as part of a British task force. My grandfather Gordon Rowe was her skipper for that operation, code-named LEADER.
Thanks for catching that. Much appreciated.
@@brucepetty4718 No problem! You're welcome, and thanks again.
How true is the saying 'the more you think you know the more there is to learn.' Very interesting and informative show Bruce and Woody.
Great program, thank you.👍
29:35 Drach has an entire episode on those two Great Lake carriers, it is how I know they existed.
They have found and recovered some aircraft from the Great Lakes training carriers. One is at O'Hare International Airport, an F4F Wildcat made to look like Butch O'Hare's Wildcat, and an SBD Dauntless which is on display at Midway Airport - both in Chicago. Midway Airport is named for the Battle of Midway.
I knew they had pulled some WWII airplanes from the Great Lakes but didn't make the connection. FYI: in the greater Vanuatu area there are over 400 Allied planes that went down in the jungle and surrounding seas, and it was not even a combat area.
Wow. That is amazing. One a trip through Midway Airport changing planes, my wife and I passed under the Dauntless and they had put up a nice display about the Battle of Midway. Three younger college age guys walked under the Dauntless after us and one looked up and said, "cool airplane." I turned around and remarked, "the Japanese didn't think so!" Enjoyed your program.
An excellent overview of US carriers from the beginning through WW2. I really appreciated the inclusion of the training carriers, USS Sable & USS Wolverine. It would be great to have a show on these two interesting and incredibly valuable carriers.
I totally agree, Scott
You came im under the radar on this one. I ll have to watch it now.
Great presentation and great energy with the presenter!
Swordfish aka Stringbags did sterling work for the Fleet Air Arm during WWII, Taranto, Bismarck, etc etc
Indeed, and that's what Bruce said
The other Great Lakes aircraft carrier was the USS Wolverine.
Hence why Humphrey Bogart had that classic smile, he had a piece of wooden flight deck stuck in his top lip from his USN service
I'd forgotten that this was a morning show, so missed it live. Thanks for the great presentation, Bruce.
My uncle flew from the USS Bunker Hill on an Avenger crew during WWII.
The superstructure being on the starboard side is due to the prevailing wind direction, the port side would create wind yar but as piston engines tend to yar to the right, it gave more room for landing operations and lately with the angled flight deck it was for balance of the ship
And it meant that the smoke was diverted out to sea not over the flight deck to make landing easier
I am not sure how that applies especially since carriers back then as well as today point into the wind for takeoffs and landings.
Fantastic presentation. I learned so much today.
I'm glad that I took the time to watch this fine presentation. I appreciated the look back at the general history of the development of the Aircraft Carrier, their crucial role in the Pacific War, and how they have developed since them. As my late father was a Aviation Machinist Mate (Jet) aboard USS Forrestal (CV-59) and USS Saratoga (CV-60) in the late 1950's, serving in the famous VF-101, which had it's heritage with VF-10 from WW2, I have always been fascinated with Carriers. Bruce has given us all much to think about as to the future of these game changing ships. Thanks a bunch.
Thank you Bruce and Paul for an excellent presentation and discussion.
Ranger conducted an extensive raid in Norway. Operation leader, lender, I forget the exact name
This was fascinating.
Sorry I had to miss it live. Very interesting with his background serving on carriers. I had no idea of some of the early history he mentioned. Thanks Bruce! Thanks for another good one Woody!!
Missed this early one. Was out on a 23 mile walk. Longest walk of the year! Just catching up with this "mobile runway" episode. 🙂
Interesting early history of carriers.
Neat watching the evolution of carriers.
Superb presentation - covering naval aviation from 1911 to the present day. Five stars.
The Big E vs all IJN? That makes the odds even. CV6 is just an awesome ship.
Thanks for this gentlemen. Fun facts about HJ Kaiser. In the 1910s his family owned a cement factory in California located on a perennial creek. During the depression, he was a prime contractor building the Hoover, Bonneville, and Grand Coulee Dams. Workers and their nearby families needed medical care and Kaiser's medical system was an early model for work-linked health insurance (and HMOs) that still characterizes the odd US approach to health insurance. The name of the California creek? "Permanente" -- hence Kaiser Permanente..
A ductile-brittle transition researcher Dr. Constance Tipper at Cambridge figured out Kaiser's Liberty ship temperature related steel brittleness problems. Early on, this urgent issue resulted in ~1,500 cracked bulkheads/ports/doors and ~12 catastrophic hull failures. I'd love to see a show on her remarkable story if anyone knows of someone qualified.
Superb....another fascinating subject
Another fantastic show thank you
Great show. Many thanks!
Always overlook the midway class three. CV 41 CV 42 CV43 and the story behind CV 42 vs 43
I read somewhere over the years that a joke in the USN late in the Pacific War was a USN CV takes a Kamikaze it's 6 months in Pearl, a RN CV takes a Kamikaze it's sweepers man your brooms.
A joke, maybe, but with armored flightdecks it was close to the truth.
Very interesting presentation on the development of Aircraft carriers
Great presentation!!
Great presentation.
Carriers, always interesting
Thank you. Very interesting. It seems the more high tech we become, low tech becomes the counter answer.
This guy is good.
It was the Lexington that sunk at Coral Sea, the Yorktown sunk during the Midway battle.
24:52
Correct. I realized my mistake after it was too late; what I refer to as a verbal typo. And since I don't use notes, I do that from time to time. Thanks for catching that.
For my money an aircraft carrier is the coolest weapon platform of all time.
Great writer.
Every technological break-through in offensive or defensive capability is countered by something in the opposite category. We have to keep investing in R&D.
And Woody was correct With the Naval Aviation museum. The Fleet Air Arm Museum is at Yeovilton (I'm currently 2 miles from there lol). It's only close to London if you are an American hehe. It's a 3 hour drive.
Eight carrier landings l believe was the norm to qualify. I have my father's flight log. A May 1944 entry shows eight landings on the USS Sable one day in Lake Michigan near Chicago. Then the stamped entry in that page with the training offocers signature under the word 'Qualified'. It was a 1.9 hour flight in SBD 10378 from NAS Glenview north of Chicago.
I stand corrected. I just went back and read the oral history interview I did with Alex Vraciu, and he did say "eight."
Im interested in a frank and honest discussion about the bombing of hellships and the thousands of U.K. and allied forces who lost their lives. My own grandfather was on three survived two thankfully taken off the third day before it was sunk
We have a show with Rona Simmons next week
@ thank you , look forward to that, it is a topic I'm extremely interested in and also after liberation, little is known of the hospitals etc that fepows were taken to build their health up in America
Another one of my presentations is about submarine in the Pacific War, and I do talk about the Hell Ships. When I was a kid growing up in Sunnyvale, California, one of my neighbors survived the Bataan Death March and the sinking of two Hell Ships.
@ I look forward to that, my grandfather was as follows
1944/07/04 - Transported in Hofuku Maru (Tofuku Maru) with Japan Party 2 within Convoy SHIMI-05
1944/07/08 - Left convoy and stopped at Mira, Borneo and stayed 3 wks. with engine trouble
1944/09/12 - 52 sick taken ashore at Manila, Philippines.
1944/09/20 - The Hofuku Maru joined MATA-27 Convoy of ten ships and sailed from Manila to Japan.
1944/09/21 - The convoy was attacked by American planes and all ten ships were sunk with 997 deaths. The survivors were taken to Cabanatuan Camp, Philippines.
. 1944/10/13 - Sailed in Oryoko Maru, destination Japan with 1620 PoWs mostly Americans, 50 British, mostly from the Hofuku Maru sinking.
1944/10/15 - The Oryoko Maru was attacked off Bataan by US Navy planes from USS Hornet and was also sunk. PoWs managed to swim to shore but 270 PoWs died in the sinking.
1944/12/27 - The survivors were loaded into the Enoura Maru and Brazil Maru at Lingayen Bay, Philippines and set sail for Japan stopping at Taiwan. The 37 British being on board the Enoura Maru.
1944/12/31 - Arrived at Takao, Taiwan and the British were taken off the Enoura Maru and the smaller group of prisoners on the Brazil Maru were transferred to the larger Enoura Maru.
1945/01/09 - The Enoura Maru was attacked in the harbour and badly damaged by American aircraft from USS Hornet with 350 PoW deaths.
I believe skipper of VF-17 flew a wildcat off Ranger. Than he got command of VF17 in Pacific with F4U-1A jolly rodgers.
Superstructure is port, because the pilot is in left seat on side by side aircraft, and therefore have carrier in sight at all times, and second, normal approach is flown in left hand patterns at all times!!
On carriers the superstructure is on starboard, not the portside.
When Ely landed 1911, Arizona where I live was still a territory.
(1) Thank you to the UK for lending us HMS Victorious/USS Robin when poor Enterprise was a Navy of One; (2) UK armored flight decks proved really effective for shrugging off kamikazes.
Hey Woody, how the book coming?
Still compiling sources
@WW2TV cool.
I was just wondering, how is that the US and Japanese air craft carriers were able to accomodate more air craft than the British carriers?
I would have to go back and double check, but as I recall from earlier reading, the armored flight deck had something to do with it. The flight deck and the hanger deck was like a box of thick steel/ But again, I need to double check.
more deck armor = less hangar space, thus smaller complement of aircraft
The smaller hanger due to armour box and US and Japanese employed deck parking.
The Illustrious class was design to carry 36 aircraft with a hanger area of 456 ft x 62 ft and a height of 16ft. Overall length of 740 ft and a beam 95 ft 9 inches and displacement of 28,210 In 1945 when the Illustrious was in the pacific it was carrying 53 aircraft.
The Yorktown class hanger was 546 ft x 63 feet and a height of 17.5 ft with an Airgroup of 72 plus Overall length 770 feet and a beam of 109 ft 6 inches and a displacement of 24,128.
See Tony the cost of the armour and the decision of no deck parking due to operating in the North Sea and the Atlantic. The British carriers were just smaller.
@@johnlucas8479 Thanks for filling in the details. I have them as well, but would have to go through my many books to find that information. You have saved me the trouble. Thanks again.
@@johnlucas8479 From the records i've read it looks like the British didn't improve them until around 1944, when their carriers could carry about 81 - 83 aircraft like HMS Implacable and HMS Indefatigable etc.
In 1941 The Royal Navy wasn't exactly designed to operate in the Pacific. Distances were greater in the Pacific, and the Royal Navy ships had shorter ranges than their American and Japanese counterparts too.
What the British did experiment well with IMO was launching night strikes like the raids on the Italian fleet. But in terms of carrier groups and mass strikes they were well behind earlier in the war.
Japanese used biplanes.
I could have done a better presentation than that. More informed, more interesting.
Well, go ahead, send me the link when you've done it
@ I would if I thought I could live up to the excellent content most of your contributors come up with. This space is normally full of real depth and detail so it is a surprise when you cover something in less than forensic detail.
But sometimes we go back to basics with content that covers subjects from an introductory point of view. Like the "in context" ones with Alan Allport for example. But as it happened, most people enjoyed this carrier show