Also for Inline 6 parts 217,235, and up I found that rock auto has new old stock on many rebuilding parts at a fraction of the price of local auto part stores. Got new GM Boxed Mains, Rods Rings and Pistons, at a cheap price Local auto part store wanted $235.00 for a set of mains 4 bearings sets Rock auto had new old stock from 1955 GM bearings for about $110.76. just passing on a great source for parts, they even carry the main shim kits.
I've actually got an old inline 6 or two that have never had filters. The reality of them isn't that they didn't need filters any more than a new car does. The oil you buy off the shelf today is probably cleaner than the stuff you bought back then anyway. The reason you didn't always have a filter at that time is kinda two fold. One being it was another thing to add to the sale of the vehicle and get a little extra charge out of and two is the early engines didn't run at the pressures the later ones did so a lot of sediment and dirt just kinda stayed in the pan. The catch is if you run without one you really should change the oil a lot more frequently (probably twice for every one with a filter) a high pressure engine didn't always have an oil filter either by the way. I don't think people thought filtering oil was as important as we rand to think today. Really if you think about it some of these engines are now 100 years old and still working so maybe it's not as detrimental as we tend to think it is to not have a filter but it definitely doesn't hurt to add one
Thanks for the video. At a garage sale I picked up a chrome plated version of one of those oil filter canisters. It had an old Atlas P-141 filter in it. I believe Atlas was a Imperial Esso brand in Canada, at least. I suspected it was for an old Chevy 6 cylinder. And my toilet paper will stay in the bathroom.
At one time Frantz had a chrome model that looked like a Fram and was designed to use toilet paper. It was probably made by the same company as the Fram. A Frantz dealer in Salt Lake City had a Frantz collection of old Frantzs. Stopped there and got a Frantz and Amsoil .for a new Honda Civic. He had the adapter for using toilet paper in the Fram AC and other canister filters. When I was selling the Frantz I replaced the hoses on a Frantz belonging to mr Jones the retired owner of the Jones bus Company of Wichita ks. Also checked out the FAA and PMA approved AeroFrantzs on crop dusters. About 1985. Mr Jones had his school buses equipped with Frantzs. He.had thank you letters from Frantz in frames on the walls. A real Frantz proud user. He raised Clydsdale horses near Sedan ks.
Before John Frantz invented the adapter that allowed you to use toilet paper in the Fram canister fjlters you could get Fram cotton cartridges for them. Not sure when they went from cotton to the junk pleated paper .You could still get Fram cotton elements up into the 60s All we had at the full service gas station was Atlas junk. Grand auto parts in San Jose California had the.Fram cotton cartridges and the.Motor Guard TP oil cleaner. The only filter as good as the Frantz and easier to service.
Back in the old days there were lots of engines that used bypass filters much like this one. You are right, use the proper filter that fits the canister and it may clean to a small micron rating anyway. The toilet paper filters are different in design, I am trying to get one put on my diesel car.
Not to be a know it all but the bolt that goes into the top requires an O-ring it is a R-08 from a Performance tool kit W5202 hope this help out a little and again I am thankful for the video and the knowledge out there from everyone.
Just an FYI: The "toilet paper filter" is a different design. The filter canisters on the market back in the day that used toilet paper as a filter element had/have a different flow pattern. The two designs are not interchangeable. They are plumbed the same but should not be confused. So... NO, you could never put toilet paper in the canister you have.... They might look the same on the outside, but are different on the inside.
M Bee thanks for the info. Years ago someone pointed that out to me. I found that there are still systems out there today that utilize toilet paper as the filter, which a lot of people swear by. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Well said and be a lot of these youngsters have to get schooled, These Kids need to they remember they were swimming around in somebody's nut sack before they're even thought of...👍
Worked in a Standard full service station in the early 60s. There were still a lot of the old cartridge filters in use then. We didnt have good element's for them. You had to go to an auto parts store such as Grand Auto parts in the SanJose California area and get the Fram cotton elements. John Frantz had the adapter to use toilet paper in the Fram but I didnt know about them until 1963 after they came out with their own housing. The two knob Frantz was discontinued .I got the over center clamp model. A lot better than the Fram cotton element. The famous Frantz 3 stacker worked the same as the old cartridge filter but was tall enough for 3 rolls of toilet paper. A mess to service but if.you wanted analytically clean oil in ypur diesel you dealt with it.
thanks buddy. i have a 52 chevy that the previous owner had installed a modern conversion kit, and i went back to the old school filter, cause i figured those engineers that put on the car were pretty smart. I wasn't sure i had hooked it up correctly years ago. it is always a mess cause i have to remove the canister from the truck to get all the sludge in the bottom of the canister.
When I set up the flat head Ford V8 canister filter to use a full roll of Scott 1000 I bypassed the orifice by plugging the ports and installing new ports. The oil under the toilet paper is clean and drains back to the engine at shut down. That didnt work with the old Frantz toilet paper conversions They had to use the stock orifice because they used a canister in a canister. I used only the Ford canister with the larger Scott 1000.
Yes you are screwed . The pleated paper is a poor filter and the dirty oil wont drain below the orifice. Toss that piece of crap and find a top loading toilet paper filter.
The Australian Jackmaster Classic is a nice filter but I didnt like the tiny orifice at the outlet.. I put the tiny orifice at the inlet. These young people dont use their heads.
I thank you for the Filter number I needed, But as I figured out the oil from the pump goes to the block and is pumped up to the bottom of the filter assy. There is a series of holes on the bottom of the center pipe in the filter housing, oil is pumped all the way to the bolt and is forced out of the bottom of the pipe inti the inside of the filter and pushed out to the side fitting that returns it to the block never start the engine with the top off ( I did not make that mistake a friend did it on a similar restoration. From the way it looked oil was going into the top side fitting and out the bottom not the case. Just a friendly update on what this video offered.
The only way I've seen these canisters work is the oil goes in the upper side port thru the pleated paper into the orifice and out the bottom center port. The way the Frantz and Gulf Coast juniors work is the oil enters the bottom center port goes up thru the center tube.There is no place. to go except down thru the toilet paper and out thru the bottom port. The origional Motor Guard filtered from the bottom up and down thru the center.. The old VW Beetle didnt come with a filter. I had to tilt the filter to keep the metal pieces from going back into the engine at shut down. Kind of like a gold pan. Frantz recommended putting the filter upside down on the beetle. No spillage with the Motor Guard . Just remove the drained TP and wipe out the metal pieces. I have a few very old Motor Guards and some compressed air M 30s that I converted back to lube oil. They filter from the top down. If you know how to install a TP filter air will climb up a hose and allow the filter to drain. No spillage. The old cannister filters wouldnt drain below the orifice. No you dont filter from the inside out on a pleated paper filter or any filter I know of.
Cool video I agree with you 100 per cent,we have one of those cannisters that came off my daughters 60 GMC and I was wondering what filter it would need and you answered my question. Thanks !
I just converted a Ford flat head V8 canister filter to use a roll of Scott 1000 toilet paper and put it on my 79 Ford diesel tractor. The Fram is virtually the same filter.The bracket is different to bolt onto the Ford head. It is angled so it will be upright on the Ford. It will be tilted on the tractor. I just bought the Ford tractor. When I saw the Ford canister filter I thought a Ford filter on a Ford tractor how cool is that. Didnt remember I still had it. I dont think they have good elements for these old filters. I have a big pack of Scott 1000. John Frantz knew how to seal the 1 1/2 inch core with a piece of exhaust pipe and a big washer welded to it. I used plastic. Fram hasnt made good elements for these filters in many years.
The easiest way to get clean oil is to buy a toilet paper filter such as a Frantz or the Jackmaster or find a Motor Guard Gulf Coast or other TP filter I prefer the top loaders. If you have an old canister filter and dont happen to have a Frantz TP adapter you can do it better than the Frantz. If you ever changed the old canister filters you know you end up with a canister half full of dirty oil you have to deal with. I didnt want that. I put pipe pluge in the inlet and outlet ports. I added a inlet port in the lid and a outlet port in the bottom. I used a thread end of a full flow filter for the toilet paper to push down against. Drilled a few extra holes for the oil to go thru and removed the burrs. You may need a spacer under the plate so the top of the toilet paper is flush with the top of the housing. You need to add something to keep the oil from going down the core. John Frantz used a piece of exhaust pipe with a washer welded to it. The washer is about 2 inches with a hole the size of the center tube with a gasket . The lid apring pushes down against the seal..I was lucky I had a Pontiac coolant tank cap that I could take apart and use. I dtilled the hole so it was a snug fit sliding down the tube.use your own judgement. Just a washer and seal might work.cant have any leakage. The Scott 1000 fit snug. The Ford canister is 4 1/2 inch. I believe John Frantz put a smaller roll in a canister and put it in the larger Fram or other larger canister. That complicates things.you will need an orifice.or neetle valve at the inlet. I didnt need an orifice because I used a oil cooler sandwich adapter. The oil keeps getting clearer in the diesel and the filter is getting hot. Its working. Its simple the dirty oil comes into the top goes down thru the TP and out the bottom. John Frantz made it too complicated and messy to change. The stock inlet is covered by toilet paper. You can probably use it if it is close to the top.. You dont need a screen in the bottom.You can remove the used roll with a pair of long nosed pliers or get inventive and make some type of bail. The newer elements for these filters are pretty much crap. In the old days they used cotton. Toilrt paper is better than cotton.
It's amazing what you could get for the old 216 engines if you had unlimited funds. Dug out my old Floyd Clymer book. They raced them.They had full flow filter systems for them. They had fuel injection systems where the injection pump was at the front of the Crankshaft. They bored the rods and put modern inserts. They had 3 carb intakes. Dual exhaust manifolds.wayne heads where the intake was on one side and.the exaust on the other. Bell housing so the 216 would fit a Ford. I'm 81 I remember when the Chevys always started .The Fords were something else. I think the book came out before the 235.. you could get a full flow filter set up. A turbo charger for the 216 was about 250.00 dollars.
Come to think about it I might have been wrong about the Fram being optional equipment on my 41 Dodge.. The Fram might have been a later model. It looked the same as the ones at Grand Auto parts in San Jose in the 60s. It didnt need a wrench to remove the lid..when I worked at a full service Standard station in the early 60s there were still a lot of the canister filters.All of the Atlas cartridge filters were pleated paper.Normally a wrench was needed to remove the lid. The ones at.Grand auto parts used the superior cotton. There was a decal on mine with golden oil on a dipstick It read the dipstick tells the story.The cotton element was the.same as the ones at Grand Auto. The pleated ones were junk. Yes that's what happened someone went to a auto parts store and bought a Fram and installed it. John Frantz used the Fram to use toilet paper. The only one I've seen has been chrome plated. A Frantz dealer in Salt Lake City had all of those old filters on display stopped there about 1980 and got one for a Honda Civic.
I got the Australian Jackmaster Classic on the Pontiac Torrent...It filters the same as the other TP filters. It has a core seal that can handle the bigger cores the same as the Motor Guard and Gulf Coast junior. Like the Gulf Coast junior you just push the TP down against the bottom and put on the lid. Not like the obsolete Frantz with the extra parts.Looks like Jackmaster and Gulf Coast are working together. Gulf Coast filters are getting too deep into large systems to deal with small filters. Jackmaster is the only small filter as good as the Gulf Coast junior .I put a roll of Great Value 1000 from Walmart in mine. Some elements are as much as 30 bucks. Some use Scott 1000. With these filters you become an expert TP squeezer. Been doing it 60 years.
The Australian Jackmaster is a top loader..that looks similar to the Fram. It is die cast aluminum The only filter.ive used that I like as well is the Gulf Coast junior. If a filter doesnt use toilet paper I dont want it.
I just came across a Ford bypass filter for a V8 flat head. I almost have it converted to take a roll of Scott 1000.You cant buy good cartridges for the old bypass filters now. The bracket is angled because it is designed to be bolted to the head. Putting a Ford bypass filter on a Ford tractor. How cool is that. Your Fram is almost the same as the Ford bypass filter. I would have a roll of Scott 1000 in it in about an hour. The cartridge you have is junk. Cotton was better. The same as a Luberfiner. TP beats cotton unless the cotton is compressed. The Scott 1000 was just the right size to fit the Ford filter. Didnt need a smaller canister inside the Ford filter.
I finally found a place that had the copper washer as well as the gasket. Got the oil changed, spark plugs and am waiting for plug wires. I'm unsure if my engine is full pressure or not.
Thanks for this info. I see you have a top gasket for the filter. Somewhere along the lines a previous owner lost this. I've not found a place that has this part.
From what I remember, the Fram C4 oil filter comes with the top gasket. You might want to look for it locally before purchasing just to verify. Hope that helps.
@@phrysk I was not clear in my comment. I thought I saw you move a plug from the old filter to the new filter that fills the space between the cover bolt hardware and the filter center hole. My filter does not have this. The new filter did include a new cover gasket. I think that annulus space has to be filled or the oil will bypass the filter. But maybe I'm wrong.
Fred Hababorbitz I understand which parts you are referring to. So between the cover and the oil filter are two parts. There is a spring that contacts the underside of the cover which pushes down the the “plug” which is actually just a metal sleeve in the shape of a top hat but with a hole in the top. That spring presses down on the brim of that sleeve which in turns pushes down on the oil filter.Those two parts keep the oil filter in place but is not a plug, since the oil filter has rubber rings at the top and bottom, there is no need for an actual plug. I watched a video from another UA-camr and they were also missing those parts. When I get a chance I will check the maintenance manual for the part name. You can see the video here. ua-cam.com/video/E0sKPe0c_h4/v-deo.html
The toilet paper filters clean oil. If you cant look at a roll of toilet paper and understand how they clean oil I cant help you. My 37 Studebaker book said it wasn't necessary to drain the oil except for seasonal reasons. Change the filter when the oil looks dirty on the depth guage. They used superior cotton. Now they mostly use junk pleated paper. Pleated paper is only good for removing large engine damaging abrasives from the full flow of oil to the engine.
Havent measured the flow rate of toilet paper filters in years.At a quart a minute 100 percent of the oil is being cleaned every hour or so.I would think it would be less in cold weather and more in hot weather. At one time Frantz had a filter heater.. I believe it was called a Alaska package. Not so important with modern motor oil.
I drive about 10 miles to work. The Full flow filter doesn't clean oil but it protects the engine from large abrasives which there are almost none in a modern engine. The toilet paper gets the small engine wearing abrasives and sludge. All of the oil in the engine goes thru the toilet paper several times going to work especially in hot weather. The pleated paper filters are better than nothing. The spin on bypass filters are no better.
You could still get decent filter elements for the Fram up into the 60s They were Fram cotton elements.The pleated paper elements had no value in a bypass filter. I suppose if you didnt drive much most any filter would work. If you put on the miles you need a filter that cleans oil.
I hope no one thinks John Frantz didnt know how to make the 1 1/2 TP core fit the Fram center tube. With a spacer. I used a plastic spacer on the Ford bypass filter. John Frantz used a piece of 1 1/2 inch OD exhaust pipe with a washer welded to it. The washer had to be a little larger than the TP core with a hole to fit the Fram center tube. Not rocket science. I did mine a little different. They filter the same. My Ford flat head V8 bypass filter will go on a 3 cylinder.Ford diesel tractor. I dont think cotton elements are available for the old canister filters now. Just crap pleated paper.
Thanks it was a useful video to hear about the canister. You mention some places on the web to find parts can you list a few more? I am interested in replacement parts for the engine. I have a 1961 Chevy Apache 10 Thanks!
It's been a years since I've had to purchase any major parts for my truck but I bought my brake lines from Impala Bob's, Grumpy's was a great place to find parts but they shut down a few years back, The Chrome Guy has some good stuff, LMC truck, but again Langdon's stovebolt and Patrick's Antique Cars are the places to go for Inline 6 engine parts. Hopefully that helps.
Ok the top hole on the side where does that hook up too? The toilet paper roll was used because people did not have money like we do now days it was a compromise until they got the money for a real filter.....or not!
Interesting how years ago the filters were canister/cartridge, now we are going back to it. I still have my grandpa's oil filter cartridge insert for a old Buick (I think). It wasn't toilet paper, its cotton. Cotton in a bag with a center tube.
Cotton is a good filter media. The Fram on my 41 dodge was cotton. If it is packed tight enough it is as good as toilet paper. Pleated paper is too thin to clean oil. Good for high volume full flow filters designed to remove large engine damaging abrasives. One thing engineers considered with the old Chevy engines is the bearings being soft enough to absorb the large engine destroying chunks of metal instead of cutting into the crankshaft. That would seem ridiculous in a modern engine with full flow filters and hard inserts. It made sense with no full flow filters and soft babbit bearings. Modern engines dont normally have a lot of engine damaging abrasives in the oil.
The thing is it's a lot easier to recycle just the filter element. Almost impossible to separate the steel from the paper. Haven't installed a Motor Guard on my daughter's 03 Sunbird. No room for it. The last two times I changed the canister filter oil pressure had crushed the element. Dont know what that's all about. Not familiar with that system
Actually you could get a full flow filter system for the 216. They raced them. They tapped into the block behind where the exhaust pipe connected to the manifold. They used large hoses. The filter canister bolted to the engine with short hoses. It was a canister. No spin ons in those days. No roll bars either. You could get a turbo charger for about 250 bucks. Old Floyd Clymer book. How to hop up Chevy and GMC 6 cylinder engines. They tossed the babbit and installed rod inserts.
Dont want to give the impression that the Frantz 3 stacker.was just 3 rolls of toilet paper in a canister.. It was three Frantz canisters with 3 rolls of TP..Then you had all of the seals and washers seperating the canisters. It was a nasty mess to service but it was what you did to keep your diesel equipment in top condition. Kind of a stupid statement I made looks like it takes a wrench. Of course it takes a wrench. The Frantz 3 stacker had a tee handle the same as a Motor Guard or one model of the Jackmaster. The classic model I have takes a wrench. With the old 3 stacker you had about 3 quarts of clean oil a minute going to the oil pan. Kind of funny saying you dont have to have filters on the engine. Kind of picks up some stuff. Filters that clean oil are mostly needed when you put on the miles. A classic you seldom start I dont know.
Thanks man good vid. that T.P. thing is funny people are nuts. Not positive but I think the little collared sleeve goes on the bottom of the filter, that's how it's currently on my '58 235. not sure if it matters unless it makes the rubber grommet cover the return hole on the shank.
As far as I can remember, I have not used my truck in a long time, that is the way it was when I got it. I don't know if that is wrong, someone could have changed it years ago. It seems to work perfectly fine the way I have it set up. Hope that helps.
Napa also carries that type of oil filter that will go in the old style bee hive canister but these both are very messy when doing a oil change I'm currently doing several upgrades to my fresh rebuild 235 Chevy including Transdapt oil filter relocation and doing away with the down tube that vents the crankcase gases and going with the set up that I learned from Devestechtips.com hope this helps.
That was the road draft tube. Got the 55 Studebaker stuck in deep mud. It gave me hell until I figured out the road draft tube was full of mud. Some engines went to hell fast when California went to the PCV valve. Instead of the fumes going to the atmosphere they fouled the valves and pistons. You had to pay attention to the PCV valve. It fouled fast. I was an inspector. It was a problem when the valve couldn't handle the blow by. We had a simple thing that checked for negative pressure in the crankcase. One PCV valve had a plunger.when the valve clogged you pushed the plunger. The plunger pushed the carbon out. You were good for a few more miles. None of the pleated paper filters are any good at cleaning oil. Probably dont matter with most classic cars that dont get driven much.
thanks for the video, i am looking for a bracket (the black one) as you have on the video to attach my oil filer canister to my intake , if you have any links please let's me know , wil be more appreciate
It’s been over a decade since I was actively working on my truck. I went to look up some of the old places I used for parts and at least two of them have gone out of business. You can try some forums such as jalopyjournal.com and stovebolt.com, otherwise try LangdonsStovebolt.com. Sorry I can’t be of more help; a lot of my resources have disappeared over the years.
If you think these don't do anything, why are toilet paper filters able to clean the soot from the oil on diesel engines whereas no full-flow filter can? The toilet paper filters are like any other bypass oil filter and are supposed to be used in addition to a full-flow filter.
You are correct in that toilet paper oil filters are supposed to be used in conjunction with regular filters. They are bypass filters and are used in a purpose built assembly. The external filter canister used in this video, which is common to Chevrolet vehicles, can not use toilet paper because of the reasons I described in the video. Frantz makes a bypass oil filter that utilizes TP. Thanks for your question, Hope this helps.
John Frsntz filled the space between the toilet paper core and the Fram center tube with a piece of 1 1/2 inch exhaust pipe with a flat washer welded to it. I used high temperature plastic. I didnt need the exhaust pipe because the tp core wont collapse with Scott 1000. I was able to eliminate the inside canister. I dont believe the firm paper was available in the 50s. The Frantz canister was similar to the modern Frantz canister with a hole in it so it could go inside the Fram upside down with seals and washers top and bottom. Yes you could use superior toilet paper in a Fram canister.
50-62 gm cars and trucks 3.9-6.4ltr motors used these filters.i have seen them on a lot of 6 cyl chevy trucks in the 50s and i think a lot of 55 265 c.i. V-8 chevys had them.iam not sure if it was an option though.i found your vid looking for ''toilet paper filters'' actually.i am trying to find a way to make my expensive oil last longer.do you think a centrifuge would clean motor oil?
Hello! Thanks for the question. Honestly I don’t remember. I think I used a fluid pump from Harbor Freight to suck out the remainder of the oil in the canister. Hopefully that helps!
When I converted the flat head Ford V8 canister filter to use Scott 1000 I bypassed the center tube and orifice by putting pipe plugs in the inlet and outlet. I put new ports in the lid and bottom . The excess oil drains back to the engine at shut down. No spillage when changing the toilet paper.
Check out Devestechtips.com you can use a Transdapt oil filter relocation kit on many inline six engines he has a video of his set up on you tube Deve is very technical and thorough in his builds, hope this helps !
None of the spin on filters clean oil. Get a Frantz Motor Guard Gulf Coast or Jackmaster . Frantz is the most popular. The top loaders are the easiest to change. I wouldnt waste money on pleated paper filters. They are only good for full flow filters.
It probably dont matter with most classic cars that dont get used much. If you put on the miles you need a filter that cleans oil. I dont think they have made good filter cartridges for those filters for years. The pleated paper ones are junk. The old cotton ones were better.
Hi, Sorry for the delayed response. You should look on eBay, Craigslist, and any other sites where people sell used parts. You could even check forums for classic vehicles. The canisters start around $30 and go up from there. Most don't have the brackets needed. Stovebolt, LangdonsStovebolt, and PatricksAntiqueCars are all good websites for Inline 6 engines.
The stock filters are junk. If you want filters that work get a Frantz or find an old Motor Guard or Gulf Coast. I have a Jackmaster coming from Australia because I want to study it. It aint cheap. You probably dont need a good filter if you dont drive much.
Yes, we know in through the center out through the side. A friend of mine did this toilet paper thing a while back and it ran oil top to bottom, which is highly inefficient. Why? The path of least resistance, which means, the path of least filtration! Oh, he did blow that engine. They all thought they were beating the system out of $6.00! Silly.
Another bull shit story that comes with toilet paper filters. Also on the Fram the oil enters the upper side port and exits the bottom center port. Dont know of any filter that filters from the inside out. Told a guy the Fram was hooked up backwards. He said it dont matter. It was an oil field pulling unit. I put a Frantz on it. It was done right. My wife said there is a Used Frantz element in the grocery store parking lot. I drove 9 miles to pick it up. I knew who the culprit was. Fell off the back of a pulling rig.
When I was selling the Frantz oil cleaner a guy told me he liked the Motor Guard better. I asked what is a Motor Guard? He said they have them at Bay Mart and Grand Auto parts in the bay area. That was in the San Jose ca area. Grand auto parts had the Fram canisters and the cotton type cartridges. About 1966. Dick Cepec tires sold the Motor Guards for off road use. Dune Buggies and Hot VWs tested them and had a nice article on them. I have some very old Motor Guards. I even have them on riding mowers. Sister wrecked the old Impala. My last two Frantzs went to a salvage somewhere in Dallas. In the 60s in California you could find Frantzs on wrecked cars in salvages for about 10 bucks. Lot of them in California. Modesto and San Jose is where they were made starting out. Was talking about a Detroil series 60 with a million miles with one oil drain. Got a call from Road King Magazine wanting the phone number of the owner of the truck. They did an article on the Gulf Coast filters. Never know who is reading my posts. NASA diesel equipment engineer said bring your wife down .we will take you on a tour and we can talk about filters.I called Gulf Coast filters. Dont think they want to talk about my Subaru. They are a customer now. It's been interesting. They were moving the shuttle around then. When I started using The Motor Guard it was made in San Jose or at least that's where the office was. Frantz started in Modesto Ca I believe. Frantz isnt the best design. The best known.
The problem John Frantz had when he converted the Fram to use toilet paper is he didnt have a young guy to tell him the core was too big and all the oil would go thru it. He had to make the oil go thru the paper with a core tube with a washer welded to it with a hole slightly larger than the Fram center tube He drilled the bottom to slightly larger and used rubber and steel washers. Edison had some smart people explaining why light bulbs wouldnt work. The material in the bulb would burn up. The Frantz filtered from top to bottom thru 4 inches. The stock Fram filtered about 1 1/2 inch thru cotton. Most modern filters it's about 1/32 inch. Which one will turn the oil amber and eliminate routine oil changes.? Come on kids raise your hands and answer the question. The Frantz adapter for the Fram was a Frantz canister that went in the larger Fram canister upside down. I could make one in about 15 minutes. They also fit Fords Purolator and others.
Too bad John Frantz isnt here to hear all this. You cant use toilet paper in the Fram because the core is too big . You dont need to filter oil in the chevy 6s. People put toilet paper in there because they thought they were doing something. Good. Just kind of picks up some stuff.
Normally the center tube has one hole 1/16 inch.thats pretty much standard size. Since the 1920s. The big double roll paper towel Gulf Coast filters use a 1/16 inch orifice the same as the little toilet paper filters . Bypass filters dont have to filter fast. The slower the flow the cleaner the oil
My Rambler American flat head 6 came factory equipped with a spin on bypass filter mounted upside down on the head. It was junk.I replaced it with a Frantz oil cleaner.The oil went from black to light amber. Was using Standard Delo 100 30 weight winter grade.Delo was for diesels. Multi grades had polymers that didnt hold up well for extended use. I use multi grades now. Most Frantz users now use Scott 1000. I've been using Great Value 1000 from Walmart. All I use now are the Gulf Coast and Motor Guard. They are all good but the Frantz is a little less user friendly.Motor Guard converted to compressed air filters.Not sure Gulf Coast is still making the TP filters saw some on ebay. Gulf Coast mostly sells heavy duty diesel filters such as for Shell Offshore and NASA.Dodge Cummins and over the road trucks.
yeah the tp filter wouldent work at all with that cannister bc that center shaft being to thin, although they do make dedicated cannisters for a roll of tp and they do work, check out frantz oil filters they have demos.
Too much wrong information. John Frantz started putting Frantz canisters in the larger canisters in 1953. John Frantz had enough common sense to fill the space between the toilet paper with a flat washer. It was welded to a piece of 1 1/2 inch exhaust lipe to keep the core from collapsing. He didnt have firm paper like Scott 1000.
Some will say there is no way you can put a Frantz canister in a Fram canister upside down because of the Fram center tube. John Frantz drilled a hole in the center of the Frantz canister. It doesnt take an engineering degree.
By-Pass Oil Filtering is not done under engine oil pressure. A By-Pass Oil Filtration is done under extremely low pressure gravity feeds the hyper-filtered oil back down into the engine crank-case and is a totally different idea and process than the regular oil filtering process. You're starting with a ass-umption that is an incorrect estimation based upon not really understanding the concept.... An oil By-Pass system works much like the old percolator coffee system......whereas the regular oil filtration process is like making espresso....one process (By-Pass) simply sprays low pressure oil over the TOP of the Toilet paper filtering media & gravity feeds the process and the other process FORCES the oil through the filtering media under high-pressure.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you're wrong. It's definitely under high pressure, I know because I have to torque down the top screw pretty dang tight or the oil will spray out from under the cap. I made no assumption, and there are very few errors in this video, all of which I have answered in previous comments. The top of my filter is metal and is not toilet paper as you're insinuating. As I've said before in the comments, share your knowledge but don't be a jerk about it. Thanks. :)
@@phrysk you are right on that one. Actually some types use the gravity system. Fram is not one of them. On those types there is a very small orifice at the inlet. The oil soaks down thru the cotton element. A large hose returns the oil to the sump. There is a heating element in the top. Very good filter. Might be good in very cold climates where the oil doesnt get hot enough for the PCV to remove the unburned fuel and condensation. They are vented at the top.The vapers go to the atmosphere. Might be other types that dont contaminate the air. Studied that filter many years ago. Correction the very small orifice is at the bottom. All of the pressure is backed up against the orifice. The oil soaks up thru the cotton. At the top is a layer of felt. A big hose like a heater hose gravitas the oil to the oil pan.the oil heater is in the lid and pushes down against the felt. Normally I remember 40 years ago better than yesterday.
The way the big Gulf Coast Filters work is the orifice is small and at the inlet.The only time pressure is on the filter element or the housing is if the element is clogged with sludge. That's the proper way. Wouldnt likely happen in a modern engine. There was a concern that a chunk of carbon might clog the orifice. In the old days if the filter didnt heat up we knew the toilet paper was full of sludge or something was in the orifice. That would be ideal if there was no pressure on the element and the oil was able to soak down through the element under gravity pressure. I once had a filter with a very small orifice at the bottom. There was almost no pressure on the cotton element. When the oil got to the top a heating element heated the oil. Then the clean oil spilled over into a large hose and gravity carried it to the oil pan. Most toilet paper filters depend on oil temperature and the PVC valve to remove the condensation and unburned fuel. The old heating element filters wouldnt work now with the fumes going to the atmosphere.
If you saw a canister filter on a old car in California there was a good chance it had a Frantz canister inside the larger Fram Purolator or other cartridge filter. If the toilet paper was being changed the oil was golden. John Frantz lived in Modesto Ca I believe.The so called real filter you have in your hand is a piece of crap. Make the Fram taller and put 3 rolls of toilet paper in it and you have the famous Frantz 3 stacker for diesel engines. Of course the Frantz three stacker had 1 /2 inch ports and a drain port.
JuanAngel, Great video. My friends used the "toilet paper" oil filter in the early 1960s. It was a separate canister that replaced the original one (or something you added to an engine without an oil filter.) The brand name was FRANZ. And know what? They're still around today! They work great EXCEPT that they keep the oil so clean, people don't change oil often because it's always "clean." But it filters out the additives too, so change oil regularly. Check franzoil dot com.
Lots of wrong information about the toilet paper filters. The additives dont get filtered out. I quit draining oil in 1963. I might drain the oil if I had a leaky head gasket or bought a used car and didnt know what was in it. Frantz is a bad design. I prefer the top loaders. Frantz isnt set up for the new paper that dont fit.
When I say Fram hasn't made good elements for these old canisters filters for many years. If the element you have is packed with cotton I am .a liar. If it has pleated paper I'm telling the truth. Pleated paper is only good for fuel or full flow filters.not enough depth. Cellulose is the best oil filter known to man. A roll of Great Value 1000 from Walmart is high quality cellulose. Please dont tell people that something I have been doing for 60 years dont work. Many people that use toilet paper filters use Scott 1000 sheet
If you read through the comments you see that other people mention that it’s actually very good in the canisters made for use with toilet paper which I didn’t know about at the time. But yes, you’re right, toilet paper is bad in this specific canister. Glad I was able to help you understand that.
The famous Frantz 3 stacker for diesel engines was the same as the Fram with the Frantz toilet paper adapter except it was tall enough for 3 rolls of toilet paper. Dont know how people can be so ignorant about something so simple as oil filters. The origional 1953 Frantz was actually a Frantz canister that went inside the slightly larger Fram canister
I just converted a Ford flat head V8 filter to use Scott 1000 toilet paper. It will go on a 3 cylinder Ford 1900 diesel tractor i used the Ford canister only. The Scott 1000. Was a perfect fit... Glad I had a Ford to put a Ford filter on. A less messy to service system than the Frantz but will filter the same.A Chevy filter should never be put on a Ford. The conversion I did in the 60s was pretty much replacing the cotton with toilet paper. Have 60 years of experience since then..my conversion is simpler and less messy to service. I used a full roll of Scott 1000.. The oil keeps getting cleaner in the diesel tractor..The Ford canister is the same as the Fram. Of course they take toilet paper..
You dont understand oil filters or the oil system of an engine and you are explaining it to others. This is common and not helpful. I have put toilet paper in those housings and made it work.You have to use the end caps from the Fram element. Punch the TP core full of holes. Drill a piece of under sink 1 1 /2 inch drain pipe full of holes. Slide that inside the core to keep it from collapsing.make the drain pipe a little shorter. That's for a poor 16 year old that couldn't afford a Frantz oil cleaner. You have to make the oil go thru the.toilet paper. I used drip gas from where they drained the liquid from natural gas pipe lines. I was a poor boy. With a rusty old 41 dodge. A gas station guy gave me used oil. An Army recruiter followed me home one day left the old car sitting. Bought me.a new Frantz oil cleaner and a new Rambler American in 1963. The way I did it is I copied the Fram element which worked . The way John Frantz did it was much better. He made the oil travel from top to bottom thru 4 inches instead of 1 1/2 inches like mine. Much better than 1/32 of pleated paper.
Also for Inline 6 parts 217,235, and up I found that rock auto has new old stock on many rebuilding parts at a fraction of the price of local auto part stores. Got new GM Boxed Mains, Rods Rings and Pistons, at a cheap price Local auto part store wanted $235.00 for a set of mains 4 bearings sets Rock auto had new old stock from 1955 GM bearings for about $110.76. just passing on a great source for parts, they even carry the main shim kits.
I've actually got an old inline 6 or two that have never had filters. The reality of them isn't that they didn't need filters any more than a new car does. The oil you buy off the shelf today is probably cleaner than the stuff you bought back then anyway. The reason you didn't always have a filter at that time is kinda two fold. One being it was another thing to add to the sale of the vehicle and get a little extra charge out of and two is the early engines didn't run at the pressures the later ones did so a lot of sediment and dirt just kinda stayed in the pan. The catch is if you run without one you really should change the oil a lot more frequently (probably twice for every one with a filter) a high pressure engine didn't always have an oil filter either by the way. I don't think people thought filtering oil was as important as we rand to think today. Really if you think about it some of these engines are now 100 years old and still working so maybe it's not as detrimental as we tend to think it is to not have a filter but it definitely doesn't hurt to add one
At least you know which port is in and which port is out.Thats a good start. Some of these guys dont know how to hook up a Fram.
Hastings: LF373 oil filter
Fram: C-4
Wix: 51100
Thanks for the video. At a garage sale I picked up a chrome plated version of one of those oil filter canisters. It had an old Atlas P-141 filter in it. I believe Atlas was a Imperial Esso brand in Canada, at least. I suspected it was for an old Chevy 6 cylinder. And my toilet paper will stay in the bathroom.
At one time Frantz had a chrome model that looked like a Fram and was designed to use toilet paper. It was probably made by the same company as the Fram. A Frantz dealer in Salt Lake City had a Frantz collection of old Frantzs. Stopped there and got a Frantz and Amsoil .for a new Honda Civic. He had the adapter for using toilet paper in the Fram AC and other canister filters. When I was selling the Frantz I replaced the hoses on a Frantz belonging to mr Jones the retired owner of the Jones bus Company of Wichita ks. Also checked out the FAA and PMA approved AeroFrantzs on crop dusters. About 1985. Mr Jones had his school buses equipped with Frantzs. He.had thank you letters from Frantz in frames on the walls. A real Frantz proud user. He raised Clydsdale horses near Sedan ks.
Before John Frantz invented the adapter that allowed you to use toilet paper in the Fram canister fjlters you could get Fram cotton cartridges for them. Not sure when they went from cotton to the junk pleated paper .You could still get Fram cotton elements up into the 60s All we had at the full service gas station was Atlas junk. Grand auto parts in San Jose California had the.Fram cotton cartridges and the.Motor Guard TP oil cleaner. The only filter as good as the Frantz and easier to service.
Back in the old days there were lots of engines that used bypass filters much like this one. You are right, use the proper filter that fits the canister and it may clean to a small micron rating anyway. The toilet paper filters are different in design, I am trying to get one put on my diesel car.
Not to be a know it all but the bolt that goes into the top requires an O-ring it is a R-08 from a Performance tool kit W5202 hope this help out a little and again I am thankful for the video and the knowledge out there from everyone.
Shea Fitzgerald thank you for sharing your knowledge with me and everyone else. This is a piece of information that I did not know.
Just an FYI: The "toilet paper filter" is a different design.
The filter canisters on the market back in the day that used toilet paper as a filter element had/have a different flow pattern. The two designs are not interchangeable. They are plumbed the same but should not be confused. So... NO, you could never put toilet paper in the canister you have.... They might look the same on the outside, but are different on the inside.
M Bee thanks for the info. Years ago someone pointed that out to me. I found that there are still systems out there today that utilize toilet paper as the filter, which a lot of people swear by. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Well said and be a lot of these youngsters have to get schooled, These Kids need to they remember they were swimming around in somebody's nut sack before they're even thought of...👍
I could convert the Fram to use Scott 1000 in less than 1 hour..
Worked in a Standard full service station in the early 60s. There were still a lot of the old cartridge filters in use then. We didnt have good element's for them. You had to go to an auto parts store such as Grand Auto parts in the SanJose California area and get the Fram cotton elements. John Frantz had the adapter to use toilet paper in the Fram but I didnt know about them until 1963 after they came out with their own housing. The two knob Frantz was discontinued .I got the over center clamp model. A lot better than the Fram cotton element. The famous Frantz 3 stacker worked the same as the old cartridge filter but was tall enough for 3 rolls of toilet paper. A mess to service but if.you wanted analytically clean oil in ypur diesel you dealt with it.
thanks buddy. i have a 52 chevy that the previous owner had installed a modern conversion kit, and i went back to the old school filter, cause i figured those engineers that put on the car were pretty smart. I wasn't sure i had hooked it up correctly years ago. it is always a mess cause i have to remove the canister from the truck to get all the sludge in the bottom of the canister.
When I set up the flat head Ford V8 canister filter to use a full roll of Scott 1000 I bypassed the orifice by plugging the ports and installing new ports. The oil under the toilet paper is clean and drains back to the engine at shut down. That didnt work with the old Frantz toilet paper conversions They had to use the stock orifice because they used a canister in a canister. I used only the Ford canister with the larger Scott 1000.
Yes you are screwed . The pleated paper is a poor filter and the dirty oil wont drain below the orifice. Toss that piece of crap and find a top loading toilet paper filter.
The Australian Jackmaster Classic is a nice filter but I didnt like the tiny orifice at the outlet.. I put the tiny orifice at the inlet. These young people dont use their heads.
I thank you for the Filter number I needed, But as I figured out the oil from the pump goes to the block and is pumped up to the bottom of the filter assy. There is a series of holes on the bottom of the center pipe in the filter housing, oil is pumped all the way to the bolt and is forced out of the bottom of the pipe inti the inside of the filter and pushed out to the side fitting that returns it to the block never start the engine with the top off ( I did not make that mistake a friend did it on a similar restoration. From the way it looked oil was going into the top side fitting and out the bottom not the case. Just a friendly update on what this video offered.
Shea Fitzgerald Thank you for that information, I absolutely appreciate it and it helps others out too.
The only way I've seen these canisters work is the oil goes in the upper side port thru the pleated paper into the orifice and out the bottom center port. The way the Frantz and Gulf Coast juniors work is the oil enters the bottom center port goes up thru the center tube.There is no place. to go except down thru the toilet paper and out thru the bottom port. The origional Motor Guard filtered from the bottom up and down thru the center.. The old VW Beetle didnt come with a filter. I had to tilt the filter to keep the metal pieces from going back into the engine at shut down. Kind of like a gold pan. Frantz recommended putting the filter upside down on the beetle. No spillage with the Motor Guard . Just remove the drained TP and wipe out the metal pieces. I have a few very old Motor Guards and some compressed air M 30s that I converted back to lube oil. They filter from the top down. If you know how to install a TP filter air will climb up a hose and allow the filter to drain. No spillage. The old cannister filters wouldnt drain below the orifice. No you dont filter from the inside out on a pleated paper filter or any filter I know of.
thanks i need this, changing oil for the first time on my car with a 235
Cool video I agree with you 100 per cent,we have one of those cannisters that came off my daughters 60 GMC and I was wondering what filter it would need and you answered my question. Thanks !
I'm not sure if your filter is the same but I use the Fram C4 oil filter.
I just converted a Ford flat head V8 canister filter to use a roll of Scott 1000 toilet paper and put it on my 79 Ford diesel tractor. The Fram is virtually the same filter.The bracket is different to bolt onto the Ford head. It is angled so it will be upright on the Ford. It will be tilted on the tractor. I just bought the Ford tractor. When I saw the Ford canister filter I thought a Ford filter on a Ford tractor how cool is that. Didnt remember I still had it. I dont think they have good elements for these old filters. I have a big pack of Scott 1000. John Frantz knew how to seal the 1 1/2 inch core with a piece of exhaust pipe and a big washer welded to it. I used plastic. Fram hasnt made good elements for these filters in many years.
The easiest way to get clean oil is to buy a toilet paper filter such as a Frantz or the Jackmaster or find a Motor Guard Gulf Coast or other TP filter I prefer the top loaders. If you have an old canister filter and dont happen to have a Frantz TP adapter you can do it better than the Frantz. If you ever changed the old canister filters you know you end up with a canister half full of dirty oil you have to deal with. I didnt want that. I put pipe pluge in the inlet and outlet ports. I added a inlet port in the lid and a outlet port in the bottom. I used a thread end of a full flow filter for the toilet paper to push down against. Drilled a few extra holes for the oil to go thru and removed the burrs. You may need a spacer under the plate so the top of the toilet paper is flush with the top of the housing. You need to add something to keep the oil from going down the core. John Frantz used a piece of exhaust pipe with a washer welded to it. The washer is about 2 inches with a hole the size of the center tube with a gasket . The lid apring pushes down against the seal..I was lucky I had a Pontiac coolant tank cap that I could take apart and use. I dtilled the hole so it was a snug fit sliding down the tube.use your own judgement. Just a washer and seal might work.cant have any leakage. The Scott 1000 fit snug. The Ford canister is 4 1/2 inch. I believe John Frantz put a smaller roll in a canister and put it in the larger Fram or other larger canister. That complicates things.you will need an orifice.or neetle valve at the inlet. I didnt need an orifice because I used a oil cooler sandwich adapter. The oil keeps getting clearer in the diesel and the filter is getting hot. Its working. Its simple the dirty oil comes into the top goes down thru the TP and out the bottom. John Frantz made it too complicated and messy to change. The stock inlet is covered by toilet paper. You can probably use it if it is close to the top.. You dont need a screen in the bottom.You can remove the used roll with a pair of long nosed pliers or get inventive and make some type of bail. The newer elements for these filters are pretty much crap. In the old days they used cotton. Toilrt paper is better than cotton.
It's amazing what you could get for the old 216 engines if you had unlimited funds. Dug out my old Floyd Clymer book. They raced them.They had full flow filter systems for them. They had fuel injection systems where the injection pump was at the front of the Crankshaft. They bored the rods and put modern inserts. They had 3 carb intakes. Dual exhaust manifolds.wayne heads where the intake was on one side and.the exaust on the other. Bell housing so the 216 would fit a Ford. I'm 81 I remember when the Chevys always started .The Fords were something else. I think the book came out before the 235.. you could get a full flow filter set up. A turbo charger for the 216 was about 250.00 dollars.
Great video. Could you tell me where to hook the lines up for that fliter set up?
Thank you for the informative video. I’m new to this type engine so all information is precious to me.
Come to think about it I might have been wrong about the Fram being optional equipment on my 41 Dodge.. The Fram might have been a later model. It looked the same as the ones at Grand Auto parts in San Jose in the 60s. It didnt need a wrench to remove the lid..when I worked at a full service Standard station in the early 60s there were still a lot of the canister filters.All of the Atlas cartridge filters were pleated paper.Normally a wrench was needed to remove the lid. The ones at.Grand auto parts used the superior cotton. There was a decal on mine with golden oil on a dipstick It read the dipstick tells the story.The cotton element was the.same as the ones at Grand Auto. The pleated ones were junk. Yes that's what happened someone went to a auto parts store and bought a Fram and installed it. John Frantz used the Fram to use toilet paper. The only one I've seen has been chrome plated. A Frantz dealer in Salt Lake City had all of those old filters on display stopped there about 1980 and got one for a Honda Civic.
I got the Australian Jackmaster Classic on the Pontiac Torrent...It filters the same as the other TP filters. It has a core seal that can handle the bigger cores the same as the Motor Guard and Gulf Coast junior. Like the Gulf Coast junior you just push the TP down against the bottom and put on the lid. Not like the obsolete Frantz with the extra parts.Looks like Jackmaster and Gulf Coast are working together. Gulf Coast filters are getting too deep into large systems to deal with small filters. Jackmaster is the only small filter as good as the Gulf Coast junior .I put a roll of Great Value 1000 from Walmart in mine. Some elements are as much as 30 bucks. Some use Scott 1000. With these filters you become an expert TP squeezer. Been doing it 60 years.
The Australian Jackmaster is a top loader..that looks similar to the Fram. It is die cast aluminum The only filter.ive used that I like as well is the Gulf Coast junior. If a filter doesnt use toilet paper I dont want it.
Thanks for this video, I'm trying to figure out what filter to put in my old stovebolt because the one that is in there is wrong. Thanks again.
I just came across a Ford bypass filter for a V8 flat head. I almost have it converted to take a roll of Scott 1000.You cant buy good cartridges for the old bypass filters now. The bracket is angled because it is designed to be bolted to the head. Putting a Ford bypass filter on a Ford tractor. How cool is that. Your Fram is almost the same as the Ford bypass filter. I would have a roll of Scott 1000 in it in about an hour. The cartridge you have is junk. Cotton was better. The same as a Luberfiner. TP beats cotton unless the cotton is compressed. The Scott 1000 was just the right size to fit the Ford filter. Didnt need a smaller canister inside the Ford filter.
I finally found a place that had the copper washer as well as the gasket. Got the oil changed, spark plugs and am waiting for plug wires. I'm unsure if my engine is full pressure or not.
Thanks for this info. I see you have a top gasket for the filter. Somewhere along the lines a previous owner lost this. I've not found a place that has this part.
From what I remember, the Fram C4 oil filter comes with the top gasket. You might want to look for it locally before purchasing just to verify. Hope that helps.
@@phrysk I was not clear in my comment. I thought I saw you move a plug from the old filter to the new filter that fills the space between the cover bolt hardware and the filter center hole. My filter does not have this. The new filter did include a new cover gasket.
I think that annulus space has to be filled or the oil will bypass the filter. But maybe I'm wrong.
Fred Hababorbitz I understand which parts you are referring to. So between the cover and the oil filter are two parts. There is a spring that contacts the underside of the cover which pushes down the the “plug” which is actually just a metal sleeve in the shape of a top hat but with a hole in the top. That spring presses down on the brim of that sleeve which in turns pushes down on the oil filter.Those two parts keep the oil filter in place but is not a plug, since the oil filter has rubber rings at the top and bottom, there is no need for an actual plug. I watched a video from another UA-camr and they were also missing those parts. When I get a chance I will check the maintenance manual for the part name. You can see the video here. ua-cam.com/video/E0sKPe0c_h4/v-deo.html
Its really cool to see it all together, theres two bolts on the block where mine used to be haha
How well do the two bolts clean oil?
AWESOME VIDEO, JUAN. THANKS. MIKE
Try Rockauto.com for GREAT NOS parts and shipping... Mike
Good video !!! I never heard of this toilet paper thing. I agree with you 100%. Thanks for making this video.
discerningmind Thanks for the positive comment.
The toilet paper filters clean oil. If you cant look at a roll of toilet paper and understand how they clean oil I cant help you. My 37 Studebaker book said it wasn't necessary to drain the oil except for seasonal reasons. Change the filter when the oil looks dirty on the depth guage. They used superior cotton. Now they mostly use junk pleated paper. Pleated paper is only good for removing large engine damaging abrasives from the full flow of oil to the engine.
Havent measured the flow rate of toilet paper filters in years.At a quart a minute 100 percent of the oil is being cleaned every hour or so.I would think it would be less in cold weather and more in hot weather. At one time Frantz had a filter heater.. I believe it was called a Alaska package. Not so important with modern motor oil.
I drive about 10 miles to work. The Full flow filter doesn't clean oil but it protects the engine from large abrasives which there are almost none in a modern engine. The toilet paper gets the small engine wearing abrasives and sludge. All of the oil in the engine goes thru the toilet paper several times going to work especially in hot weather. The pleated paper filters are better than nothing. The spin on bypass filters are no better.
You could still get decent filter elements for the Fram up into the 60s They were Fram cotton elements.The pleated paper elements had no value in a bypass filter. I suppose if you didnt drive much most any filter would work. If you put on the miles you need a filter that cleans oil.
Do have the dimensions of that bushing you slid on top of shaft seal? We don’t have that bushing.
I hope no one thinks John Frantz didnt know how to make the 1 1/2 TP core fit the Fram center tube. With a spacer. I used a plastic spacer on the Ford bypass filter. John Frantz used a piece of 1 1/2 inch OD exhaust pipe with a washer welded to it. The washer had to be a little larger than the TP core with a hole to fit the Fram center tube. Not rocket science. I did mine a little different. They filter the same. My Ford flat head V8 bypass filter will go on a 3 cylinder.Ford diesel tractor. I dont think cotton elements are available for the old canister filters now. Just crap pleated paper.
Thanks it was a useful video to hear about the canister. You mention some places on the web to find parts can you list a few more? I am interested in replacement parts for the engine. I have a 1961 Chevy Apache 10 Thanks!
It's been a years since I've had to purchase any major parts for my truck but I bought my brake lines from Impala Bob's, Grumpy's was a great place to find parts but they shut down a few years back, The Chrome Guy has some good stuff, LMC truck, but again Langdon's stovebolt and Patrick's Antique Cars are the places to go for Inline 6 engine parts. Hopefully that helps.
Thanks very much for your quick reply. I will check those places.
Ok the top hole on the side where does that hook up too? The toilet paper roll was used because people did not have money like we do now days it was a compromise until they got the money for a real filter.....or not!
We use the toilet paper filters because they clean oil and the stock filters do not.
Interesting how years ago the filters were canister/cartridge, now we are going back to it. I still have my grandpa's oil filter cartridge insert for a old Buick (I think). It wasn't toilet paper, its cotton. Cotton in a bag with a center tube.
Cotton is a good filter media. The Fram on my 41 dodge was cotton. If it is packed tight enough it is as good as toilet paper. Pleated paper is too thin to clean oil. Good for high volume full flow filters designed to remove large engine damaging abrasives. One thing engineers considered with the old Chevy engines is the bearings being soft enough to absorb the large engine destroying chunks of metal instead of cutting into the crankshaft. That would seem ridiculous in a modern engine with full flow filters and hard inserts. It made sense with no full flow filters and soft babbit bearings. Modern engines dont normally have a lot of engine damaging abrasives in the oil.
The thing is it's a lot easier to recycle just the filter element. Almost impossible to separate the steel from the paper. Haven't installed a Motor Guard on my daughter's 03 Sunbird. No room for it. The last two times I changed the canister filter oil pressure had crushed the element. Dont know what that's all about. Not familiar with that system
Actually you could get a full flow filter system for the 216. They raced them. They tapped into the block behind where the exhaust pipe connected to the manifold. They used large hoses. The filter canister bolted to the engine with short hoses. It was a canister. No spin ons in those days. No roll bars either. You could get a turbo charger for about 250 bucks. Old Floyd Clymer book. How to hop up Chevy and GMC 6 cylinder engines. They tossed the babbit and installed rod inserts.
Dont want to give the impression that the Frantz 3 stacker.was just 3 rolls of toilet paper in a canister.. It was three Frantz canisters with 3 rolls of TP..Then you had all of the seals and washers seperating the canisters. It was a nasty mess to service but it was what you did to keep your diesel equipment in top condition. Kind of a stupid statement I made looks like it takes a wrench. Of course it takes a wrench. The Frantz 3 stacker had a tee handle the same as a Motor Guard or one model of the Jackmaster. The classic model I have takes a wrench. With the old 3 stacker you had about 3 quarts of clean oil a minute going to the oil pan. Kind of funny saying you dont have to have filters on the engine. Kind of picks up some stuff. Filters that clean oil are mostly needed when you put on the miles. A classic you seldom start I dont know.
Small correction: the spelling of the name is FRANTZ. Their website is FrantzOil dot com.
Thanks man good vid. that T.P. thing is funny people are nuts. Not positive but I think the little collared sleeve goes on the bottom of the filter, that's how it's currently on my '58 235. not sure if it matters unless it makes the rubber grommet cover the return hole on the shank.
As far as I can remember, I have not used my truck in a long time, that is the way it was when I got it. I don't know if that is wrong, someone could have changed it years ago. It seems to work perfectly fine the way I have it set up. Hope that helps.
You are correct the collared sleeve slides open end down in the filter housing.
If you want 100% clean oil 100% of the time you are nuts. If you dont mind dirty oil engine wear and oil changes you are sane.
Napa also carries that type of oil filter that will go in the old style bee hive canister but these both are very messy when doing a oil change I'm currently doing several upgrades to my fresh rebuild 235 Chevy including Transdapt oil filter relocation and doing away with the down tube that vents the crankcase gases and going with the set up that I learned from Devestechtips.com hope this helps.
That was the road draft tube. Got the 55 Studebaker stuck in deep mud. It gave me hell until I figured out the road draft tube was full of mud. Some engines went to hell fast when California went to the PCV valve. Instead of the fumes going to the atmosphere they fouled the valves and pistons. You had to pay attention to the PCV valve. It fouled fast. I was an inspector. It was a problem when the valve couldn't handle the blow by. We had a simple thing that checked for negative pressure in the crankcase. One PCV valve had a plunger.when the valve clogged you pushed the plunger. The plunger pushed the carbon out. You were good for a few more miles. None of the pleated paper filters are any good at cleaning oil. Probably dont matter with most classic cars that dont get driven much.
thanks for the video, i am looking for a bracket (the black one) as you have on the video to attach my oil filer canister to my intake , if you have any links please let's me know , wil be more appreciate
It’s been over a decade since I was actively working on my truck. I went to look up some of the old places I used for parts and at least two of them have gone out of business. You can try some forums such as jalopyjournal.com and stovebolt.com, otherwise try LangdonsStovebolt.com. Sorry I can’t be of more help; a lot of my resources have disappeared over the years.
@@phrysk thanks for your answer , i appreciate your help have a great day
If you think these don't do anything, why are toilet paper filters able to clean the soot from the oil on diesel engines whereas no full-flow filter can? The toilet paper filters are like any other bypass oil filter and are supposed to be used in addition to a full-flow filter.
You are correct in that toilet paper oil filters are supposed to be used in conjunction with regular filters. They are bypass filters and are used in a purpose built assembly. The external filter canister used in this video, which is common to Chevrolet vehicles, can not use toilet paper because of the reasons I described in the video. Frantz makes a bypass oil filter that utilizes TP. Thanks for your question, Hope this helps.
John Frsntz filled the space between the toilet paper core and the Fram center tube with a piece of 1 1/2 inch exhaust pipe with a flat washer welded to it. I used high temperature plastic. I didnt need the exhaust pipe because the tp core wont collapse with Scott 1000. I was able to eliminate the inside canister. I dont believe the firm paper was available in the 50s. The Frantz canister was similar to the modern Frantz canister with a hole in it so it could go inside the Fram upside down with seals and washers top and bottom. Yes you could use superior toilet paper in a Fram canister.
Great job!👍
50-62 gm cars and trucks 3.9-6.4ltr motors used these filters.i have seen them on a lot of 6 cyl chevy trucks in the 50s and i think a lot of 55 265 c.i. V-8 chevys had them.iam not sure if it was an option though.i found your vid looking for ''toilet paper filters'' actually.i am trying to find a way to make my expensive oil last longer.do you think a centrifuge would clean motor oil?
I have oil coming out of the top of my oil filter. 1958-1962 235 . Any idea why? copper washer perhaps bad?
Hello. I was wondering where i can buy the oil canister. I have a 1950 chevy truck with a 235 6 cyl motor. And my motor did not come with one.
Check out Devestechtips.com !
The filters were optional ewuipment.
Great video! Thank you!!
How do you drain the excess oil from it after you pulled the oil pan plug and drained the engine
Hello! Thanks for the question.
Honestly I don’t remember. I think I used a fluid pump from Harbor Freight to suck out the remainder of the oil in the canister.
Hopefully that helps!
When I converted the flat head Ford V8 canister filter to use Scott 1000 I bypassed the center tube and orifice by putting pipe plugs in the inlet and outlet. I put new ports in the lid and bottom . The excess oil drains back to the engine at shut down. No spillage when changing the toilet paper.
Tell me where I can buy the full canister kit to fit a 1952 Chevrolet 216 C.I. Thanks a million.
Russell B the only place I know of that sells a kit is Patricks Antique Cars. It's a chrome beehive, so not the OEM look.
Check out Devestechtips.com you can use a Transdapt oil filter relocation kit on many inline six engines he has a video of his set up on you tube Deve is very technical and thorough in his builds, hope this helps !
None of the spin on filters clean oil. Get a Frantz Motor Guard Gulf Coast or Jackmaster . Frantz is the most popular. The top loaders are the easiest to change. I wouldnt waste money on pleated paper filters. They are only good for full flow filters.
It probably dont matter with most classic cars that dont get used much. If you put on the miles you need a filter that cleans oil. I dont think they have made good filter cartridges for those filters for years. The pleated paper ones are junk. The old cotton ones were better.
Thanks, interesting, good explanation.
Hello. I was wondering where i can buy a oil canister just like yours. I have a 235 6 cylinder motor that didnt come with one. Please respond
Hi, Sorry for the delayed response. You should look on eBay, Craigslist, and any other sites where people sell used parts. You could even check forums for classic vehicles. The canisters start around $30 and go up from there. Most don't have the brackets needed. Stovebolt, LangdonsStovebolt, and PatricksAntiqueCars are all good websites for Inline 6 engines.
advanced auto parts for 14$ is where I get mine for my 1959 Chevy Biscayne 6cyl
The stock filters are junk. If you want filters that work get a Frantz or find an old Motor Guard or Gulf Coast. I have a Jackmaster coming from Australia because I want to study it. It aint cheap. You probably dont need a good filter if you dont drive much.
Good video. Thanks bro
Yes, we know in through the center out through the side. A friend of mine did this toilet paper thing a while back and it ran oil top to bottom, which is highly inefficient. Why? The path of least resistance, which means, the path of least filtration!
Oh, he did blow that engine. They all thought they were beating the system out of $6.00! Silly.
Another bull shit story that comes with toilet paper filters. Also on the Fram the oil enters the upper side port and exits the bottom center port. Dont know of any filter that filters from the inside out. Told a guy the Fram was hooked up backwards. He said it dont matter. It was an oil field pulling unit. I put a Frantz on it. It was done right. My wife said there is a Used Frantz element in the grocery store parking lot. I drove 9 miles to pick it up. I knew who the culprit was. Fell off the back of a pulling rig.
When I was selling the Frantz oil cleaner a guy told me he liked the Motor Guard better. I asked what is a Motor Guard? He said they have them at Bay Mart and Grand Auto parts in the bay area. That was in the San Jose ca area. Grand auto parts had the Fram canisters and the cotton type cartridges. About 1966. Dick Cepec tires sold the Motor Guards for off road use. Dune Buggies and Hot VWs tested them and had a nice article on them. I have some very old Motor Guards. I even have them on riding mowers. Sister wrecked the old Impala. My last two Frantzs went to a salvage somewhere in Dallas. In the 60s in California you could find Frantzs on wrecked cars in salvages for about 10 bucks. Lot of them in California. Modesto and San Jose is where they were made starting out. Was talking about a Detroil series 60 with a million miles with one oil drain. Got a call from Road King Magazine wanting the phone number of the owner of the truck. They did an article on the Gulf Coast filters. Never know who is reading my posts. NASA diesel equipment engineer said bring your wife down .we will take you on a tour and we can talk about filters.I called Gulf Coast filters. Dont think they want to talk about my Subaru. They are a customer now. It's been interesting. They were moving the shuttle around then. When I started using The Motor Guard it was made in San Jose or at least that's where the office was. Frantz started in Modesto Ca I believe. Frantz isnt the best design. The best known.
The problem John Frantz had when he converted the Fram to use toilet paper is he didnt have a young guy to tell him the core was too big and all the oil would go thru it. He had to make the oil go thru the paper with a core tube with a washer welded to it with a hole slightly larger than the Fram center tube He drilled the bottom to slightly larger and used rubber and steel washers. Edison had some smart people explaining why light bulbs wouldnt work. The material in the bulb would burn up. The Frantz filtered from top to bottom thru 4 inches. The stock Fram filtered about 1 1/2 inch thru cotton. Most modern filters it's about 1/32 inch. Which one will turn the oil amber and eliminate routine oil changes.? Come on kids raise your hands and answer the question. The Frantz adapter for the Fram was a Frantz canister that went in the larger Fram canister upside down. I could make one in about 15 minutes. They also fit Fords Purolator and others.
nice job explaining the old filter thanks see ya :-)
Too bad John Frantz isnt here to hear all this. You cant use toilet paper in the Fram because the core is too big . You dont need to filter oil in the chevy 6s. People put toilet paper in there because they thought they were doing something. Good. Just kind of picks up some stuff.
Hello Friend.
How many holes has the center piece?
Truthfully I don’t remember, it’s been years since I’ve worked on my truck.
Normally the center tube has one hole 1/16 inch.thats pretty much standard size. Since the 1920s. The big double roll paper towel Gulf Coast filters use a 1/16 inch orifice the same as the little toilet paper filters . Bypass filters dont have to filter fast. The slower the flow the cleaner the oil
good info where did you get that filter can u give me the brand number and name
The filter brand is Fram and the part number is C4. Hope that helps! :)
Auto Zone has them and there is short on and a tall one.
My Rambler American flat head 6 came factory equipped with a spin on bypass filter mounted upside down on the head. It was junk.I replaced it with a Frantz oil cleaner.The oil went from black to light amber. Was using Standard Delo 100 30 weight winter grade.Delo was for diesels. Multi grades had polymers that didnt hold up well for extended use. I use multi grades now. Most Frantz users now use Scott 1000. I've been using Great Value 1000 from Walmart. All I use now are the Gulf Coast and Motor Guard. They are all good but the Frantz is a little less user friendly.Motor Guard converted to compressed air filters.Not sure Gulf Coast is still making the TP filters saw some on ebay. Gulf Coast mostly sells heavy duty diesel filters such as for Shell Offshore and NASA.Dodge Cummins and over the road trucks.
yeah the tp filter wouldent work at all with that cannister bc that center shaft being to thin, although they do make dedicated cannisters for a roll of tp and they do work, check out frantz oil filters they have demos.
Too much wrong information. John Frantz started putting Frantz canisters in the larger canisters in 1953. John Frantz had enough common sense to fill the space between the toilet paper with a flat washer. It was welded to a piece of 1 1/2 inch exhaust lipe to keep the core from collapsing. He didnt have firm paper like Scott 1000.
There are much better designed toilet paper filters than the Frantz. 7:07
Some will say there is no way you can put a Frantz canister in a Fram canister upside down because of the Fram center tube. John Frantz drilled a hole in the center of the Frantz canister. It doesnt take an engineering degree.
great video!
thanks for the info
If you want to hear a lot of opinions from people that know nothing about bypass filters just mention toilet paper filters.
By-Pass Oil Filtering is not done under engine oil pressure.
A By-Pass Oil Filtration is done under extremely low pressure gravity feeds the hyper-filtered oil back down into the engine crank-case and is a totally different idea and process than the regular oil filtering process.
You're starting with a ass-umption that is an incorrect estimation based upon not really understanding the concept....
An oil By-Pass system works much like the old percolator coffee system......whereas the regular oil filtration process is like making espresso....one process (By-Pass) simply sprays low pressure oil over the TOP of the Toilet paper filtering media & gravity feeds the process and the other process FORCES the oil through the filtering media under high-pressure.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you're wrong. It's definitely under high pressure, I know because I have to torque down the top screw pretty dang tight or the oil will spray out from under the cap. I made no assumption, and there are very few errors in this video, all of which I have answered in previous comments. The top of my filter is metal and is not toilet paper as you're insinuating. As I've said before in the comments, share your knowledge but don't be a jerk about it. Thanks. :)
@@phrysk you are right on that one. Actually some types use the gravity system. Fram is not one of them. On those types there is a very small orifice at the inlet. The oil soaks down thru the cotton element. A large hose returns the oil to the sump. There is a heating element in the top. Very good filter. Might be good in very cold climates where the oil doesnt get hot enough for the PCV to remove the unburned fuel and condensation. They are vented at the top.The vapers go to the atmosphere. Might be other types that dont contaminate the air. Studied that filter many years ago. Correction the very small orifice is at the bottom. All of the pressure is backed up against the orifice. The oil soaks up thru the cotton. At the top is a layer of felt. A big hose like a heater hose gravitas the oil to the oil pan.the oil heater is in the lid and pushes down against the felt. Normally I remember 40 years ago better than yesterday.
The way the big Gulf Coast Filters work is the orifice is small and at the inlet.The only time pressure is on the filter element or the housing is if the element is clogged with sludge. That's the proper way. Wouldnt likely happen in a modern engine. There was a concern that a chunk of carbon might clog the orifice. In the old days if the filter didnt heat up we knew the toilet paper was full of sludge or something was in the orifice. That would be ideal if there was no pressure on the element and the oil was able to soak down through the element under gravity pressure. I once had a filter with a very small orifice at the bottom. There was almost no pressure on the cotton element. When the oil got to the top a heating element heated the oil. Then the clean oil spilled over into a large hose and gravity carried it to the oil pan. Most toilet paper filters depend on oil temperature and the PVC valve to remove the condensation and unburned fuel. The old heating element filters wouldnt work now with the fumes going to the atmosphere.
If you saw a canister filter on a old car in California there was a good chance it had a Frantz canister inside the larger Fram Purolator or other cartridge filter. If the toilet paper was being changed the oil was golden. John Frantz lived in Modesto Ca I believe.The so called real filter you have in your hand is a piece of crap. Make the Fram taller and put 3 rolls of toilet paper in it and you have the famous Frantz 3 stacker for diesel engines. Of course the Frantz three stacker had 1 /2 inch ports and a drain port.
JuanAngel,
Great video. My friends used the "toilet paper" oil filter in the early 1960s. It was a separate canister that replaced the original one (or something you added to an engine without an oil filter.) The brand name was FRANZ. And know what? They're still around today! They work great EXCEPT that they keep the oil so clean, people don't change oil often because it's always "clean." But it filters out the additives too, so change oil regularly. Check franzoil dot com.
Lots of wrong information about the toilet paper filters. The additives dont get filtered out. I quit draining oil in 1963. I might drain the oil if I had a leaky head gasket or bought a used car and didnt know what was in it. Frantz is a bad design. I prefer the top loaders. Frantz isnt set up for the new paper that dont fit.
When I say Fram hasn't made good elements for these old canisters filters for many years. If the element you have is packed with cotton I am .a liar. If it has pleated paper I'm telling the truth. Pleated paper is only good for fuel or full flow filters.not enough depth. Cellulose is the best oil filter known to man. A roll of Great Value 1000 from Walmart is high quality cellulose. Please dont tell people that something I have been doing for 60 years dont work. Many people that use toilet paper filters use Scott 1000 sheet
OK we get it. Toilet paper bad.
If you read through the comments you see that other people mention that it’s actually very good in the canisters made for use with toilet paper which I didn’t know about at the time. But yes, you’re right, toilet paper is bad in this specific canister. Glad I was able to help you understand that.
The famous Frantz 3 stacker for diesel engines was the same as the Fram with the Frantz toilet paper adapter except it was tall enough for 3 rolls of toilet paper. Dont know how people can be so ignorant about something so simple as oil filters. The origional 1953 Frantz was actually a Frantz canister that went inside the slightly larger Fram canister
I just converted a Ford flat head V8 filter to use Scott 1000 toilet paper. It will go on a 3 cylinder Ford 1900 diesel tractor i used the Ford canister only. The Scott 1000. Was a perfect fit... Glad I had a Ford to put a Ford filter on. A less messy to service system than the Frantz but will filter the same.A Chevy filter should never be put on a Ford. The conversion I did in the 60s was pretty much replacing the cotton with toilet paper. Have 60 years of experience since then..my conversion is simpler and less messy to service. I used a full roll of Scott 1000.. The oil keeps getting cleaner in the diesel tractor..The Ford canister is the same as the Fram. Of course they take toilet paper..
Thanks bro
You dont understand oil filters or the oil system of an engine and you are explaining it to others. This is common and not helpful. I have put toilet paper in those housings and made it work.You have to use the end caps from the Fram element. Punch the TP core full of holes. Drill a piece of under sink 1 1 /2 inch drain pipe full of holes. Slide that inside the core to keep it from collapsing.make the drain pipe a little shorter. That's for a poor 16 year old that couldn't afford a Frantz oil cleaner. You have to make the oil go thru the.toilet paper. I used drip gas from where they drained the liquid from natural gas pipe lines. I was a poor boy. With a rusty old 41 dodge. A gas station guy gave me used oil. An Army recruiter followed me home one day left the old car sitting. Bought me.a new Frantz oil cleaner and a new Rambler American in 1963. The way I did it is I copied the Fram element which worked . The way John Frantz did it was much better. He made the oil travel from top to bottom thru 4 inches instead of 1 1/2 inches like mine. Much better than 1/32 of pleated paper.
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