What is up with the comments section? Also surprised there are no mentions of the 7th ecumenical council proclaiming the the validity and necessity of iconography within the Church.
Oh! lol, she is an "art historian", not a "theologian"... 35 minutes in, and I'm thinking, "this person has no concept of Orthodoxy, nor does she attempt to pronounce any of the Greek words correctly... Is she a novice?", and then I look at the description, and I feel silly... It all makes sense, now that I know she's not talking about religion; she's just talking about art (from a western viewpoint), and that's ok... She kinda sounds like my mom, so I enjoy her voice. (My mom can't pronounce Greek either, but she's a nice lady too!)
The Sinai Christ is encaustic (not tempera which is traditionally done with egg, not water), the Mandylion (icon not made by human hands) was from Edessa not Ethiopia. Perspective is inverse - not egocentric but christocentric or hagiocentric. There are theological reasons behind the construction of folds and highlights, these are not abstractions but representations of divine principles. One of the purposes of icons is to open the doors to heaven and invite the devotee into communion of saints. Please do added research before accepting any information. Iconography is best understood by those who understand the theology of orthodoxy.
Since the church was persecuted by the ancient romans, they didn’t put out pictures. So the people used as models in the pictures were just artists models-whomever the artist could get to stand there and pose. They don’t necessarily look anything like the real originals. But it’s just symbolic.
SKILLvsPILLS Let me guess: Jesus was black? Man, oh man...you sure have been propagandized. I see your seething hatred all over this comment section. You've fallen for the race baiting of the establishment. You're a slave. Isn't that ironic? There are 12 tribes of Israel...not just the one's in Israel or the imposters in Hollywood. Big difference. I'm not from the tribe of Judah...therefore, I'm not a Jew. I'm of the tribe of Benjamin. I have actual history books I can source (that predates the CNN propaganda that you've fallen for). Some Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews. This is a common misconception of today. Not all of Israel are Jews, but all Jews who are of the actual lineage of the house of Judah are Israelites. The historical record attests to this. Unfortunately, the historical record does not attest to your race baiting propaganda. I would guess that you believe that EVERYONE in the bible (who is seen in an admirable and positive light) is also black. It's amazing that 99% of you so called "black Hebrews' only gained interest in biblical things when you found out that "Jesus was black". Before which, you could have cared less. So, once you find out that actual history attests to the fact that Israelites are not one in the same with Africans...will you lose interest in spiritual things? If so, you will then be exposed as one who is deceived into a counterfeit salvation. A salvation unto SELF. A salvation that's perpetuated by and through self deception. If history attested to the fact that Jesus and all of the other biblical patriarchs were black...I personally wouldn't lose interest in spiritual things. The foundation of my salvation isn't built upon skin color...it's built upon something that runs much deeper than the surface of the skin. Can you say the same? You are a slave of the establishment. Black Hebrewism wouldn't even be a thing if not for the rampant race baiting propaganda of the fake news industry. Black Hebrewism is proof that the propaganda is working. How's it feel to be a pawn? It has worked the blacks up into a frenzied fit of racism (all in the name of God). Therefore, they have segregated and isolated themselves from whites by inventing baseless conspiracy theories that have literally no place in the historical record. Then, they have the audacity to attach the name of God to their racist-hatred. I just can't get over this: Isn't it ironic that no one believed in Black Hebrewism until after the race-war-inciting propaganda took hold? Thus the reason people like you are zombified slaves of the propaganda plantation. To be a slave of the establishment is most ironic when you consider all of whining and crying over slavery that occurred 150 years ago. Yet...see how eager people like you are to shackle themselves. Fact of the matter is, you've accepted propaganda as truth. When propaganda has been accepted as truth...the actual truth will appear to be propaganda. Always remember that. You're merely tickling your ears because you hate white people. Therefore, you want biblical permission for your hatred. I'd be very careful attaching the name of Christ to your hatred. Even if all of the biblical characters were black...your behaviour wouldn't be condoned of God. Tread lightly. Are you saved because of your race? I'm not (and I'm most assuredly an Israelite). Before condemning the suppression that happened to people you never even knew...before acting as if you personally withstood the slavery of these people...perhaps focus on the slavery that's unfolding right under your nose. The slavery that YOU have shackled yourself with. Black Hebrewism is a construct and knee jerk reaction to the propaganda machine of CNN. You've been had. Nice job. Wake up. You're being played. The reason no one believed this before people like yourself fell for the race baiting propaganda is because history doesn't teach it. Never has. Never will. A reactionary impulse to propaganda teaches this. You believe this because it fits your agenda (to hate white people and victimize yourself). It's not good enough for you to just hate white people and victimize yourself...you have an incessant urgency to stamp the approval of God upon it. If your God looks just like you, thinks just like you and acts just like you....you're worshipping and believing in yourself (not God). You may be able to believe in yourself...but you'll never be able to save yourself. Repent from your self absorbtion. Fix your eyes on the actual Christ...not the false one that's staring back at you in the mirror.
Iconclasm had nothing to do with race and images made from wood do get darker over time and also the smoke from the incense and candles burning over time darkens the mosaics and icons. Leave it to a so-called black Hebrew Israelite to stir trouble. I doubt you've ever been inside an Orthodox Christian church. Have you even been outside of America?
I PLAY 55 SEONDS INTO THE VIDEO AND BY THE SOUND OF HER VOICE I KNEW THERE WOULD BE NO BLACK IMAGES SHOWN , SO I DIDN'T GO ANY FURTHER INTO THE VIDEO , BUT RATHER THE REAL IMAGES ARE SHOWN OR NOT IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY THE TRUTH .
i have not watched the video, but i am going to respond to your comment from the Eastern Orthodox perspective: Orthodox Christians do not pray to the icons - rather we pray to the Saint therein depicted. we do pray _in the presence_ of the icons in much the same way as the Israelites prayed _in the presense_ of the Cherubims in the Old Testament. also, prayer is *not* the same as worship. linguistically there is a distinction between prayer and worship. for example: we may ask some one to _pray_ for us, but we don't ask someone to _worship_ for us. Orthodox Christians venerate and pray to the Saints and Angels. we _worship_ only the Triune God: *Father, Son, Holy Spirit*. here is an article explaining the theological and scriptural basis for Icons _and their veneration_ within Eastern Orthodoxy: orthodoxinfo (*dot*) com/general/icon_faq.aspx regards, theOrthodoxFaith (*dot*) org
SKILLvsPILLS your blasphemous words not far off from the mad cry of those who crucified Christ: _'But they cried, saying, Crucify Him, crucify Him'_ - Luke 13_21 _'And they cried out again, Crucify Him.'_ - Mark 15_13 _'Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.'_ - 1 Corinthians 2_8
What is up with the comments section? Also surprised there are no mentions of the 7th ecumenical council proclaiming the the validity and necessity of iconography within the Church.
Sadly at the popular level, veneration has at times morphed into worship inspite of efforts to educate the faithful.
Note.
It's Dionysios.
Dionysus is the god of wine.
Καλό λόγος
Very informative presentation, thanks!
Really nice lecture but the Sinai Pantocrator is encaustic, not egg tempera.
this is helping a lot ...maybe my own teacher of civ is not going to explain and simplify stuff as you did . thank u
hello, are you a lit student ?
Very nice presentation.. Well informed and a very nice voice.
Where do you teach? Are you an art history professor?
Thanks!
Oh! lol, she is an "art historian", not a "theologian"... 35 minutes in, and I'm thinking, "this person has no concept of Orthodoxy, nor does she attempt to pronounce any of the Greek words correctly... Is she a novice?", and then I look at the description, and I feel silly...
It all makes sense, now that I know she's not talking about religion; she's just talking about art (from a western viewpoint), and that's ok... She kinda sounds like my mom, so I enjoy her voice. (My mom can't pronounce Greek either, but she's a nice lady too!)
The Sinai Christ is encaustic (not tempera which is traditionally done with egg, not water), the Mandylion (icon not made by human hands) was from Edessa not Ethiopia. Perspective is inverse - not egocentric but christocentric or hagiocentric. There are theological reasons behind the construction of folds and highlights, these are not abstractions but representations of divine principles. One of the purposes of icons is to open the doors to heaven and invite the devotee into communion of saints. Please do added research before accepting any information. Iconography is best understood by those who understand the theology of orthodoxy.
So where are the real Icons before they were white washed.
Since the church was persecuted by the ancient romans, they didn’t put out pictures. So the people used as models in the pictures were just artists models-whomever the artist could get to stand there and pose. They don’t necessarily look anything like the real originals. But it’s just symbolic.
SKILLvsPILLS Let me guess: Jesus was black? Man, oh man...you sure have been propagandized. I see your seething hatred all over this comment section. You've fallen for the race baiting of the establishment.
You're a slave.
Isn't that ironic?
There are 12 tribes of Israel...not just the one's in Israel or the imposters in Hollywood. Big difference. I'm not from the tribe of Judah...therefore, I'm not a Jew. I'm of the tribe of Benjamin. I have actual history books I can source (that predates the CNN propaganda that you've fallen for).
Some Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews. This is a common misconception of today. Not all of Israel are Jews, but all Jews who are of the actual lineage of the house of Judah are Israelites. The historical record attests to this. Unfortunately, the historical record does not attest to your race baiting propaganda.
I would guess that you believe that EVERYONE in the bible (who is seen in an admirable and positive light) is also black. It's amazing that 99% of you so called "black Hebrews' only gained interest in biblical things when you found out that "Jesus was black". Before which, you could have cared less. So, once you find out that actual history attests to the fact that Israelites are not one in the same with Africans...will you lose interest in spiritual things? If so, you will then be exposed as one who is deceived into a counterfeit salvation. A salvation unto SELF. A salvation that's perpetuated by and through self deception.
If history attested to the fact that Jesus and all of the other biblical patriarchs were black...I personally wouldn't lose interest in spiritual things. The foundation of my salvation isn't built upon skin color...it's built upon something that runs much deeper than the surface of the skin. Can you say the same?
You are a slave of the establishment. Black Hebrewism wouldn't even be a thing if not for the rampant race baiting propaganda of the fake news industry. Black Hebrewism is proof that the propaganda is working. How's it feel to be a pawn? It has worked the blacks up into a frenzied fit of racism (all in the name of God). Therefore, they have segregated and isolated themselves from whites by inventing baseless conspiracy theories that have literally no place in the historical record. Then, they have the audacity to attach the name of God to their racist-hatred.
I just can't get over this: Isn't it ironic that no one believed in Black Hebrewism until after the race-war-inciting propaganda took hold? Thus the reason people like you are zombified slaves of the propaganda plantation.
To be a slave of the establishment is most ironic when you consider all of whining and crying over slavery that occurred 150 years ago. Yet...see how eager people like you are to shackle themselves. Fact of the matter is, you've accepted propaganda as truth. When propaganda has been accepted as truth...the actual truth will appear to be propaganda. Always remember that. You're merely tickling your ears because you hate white people. Therefore, you want biblical permission for your hatred. I'd be very careful attaching the name of Christ to your hatred. Even if all of the biblical characters were black...your behaviour wouldn't be condoned of God. Tread lightly. Are you saved because of your race? I'm not (and I'm most assuredly an Israelite).
Before condemning the suppression that happened to people you never even knew...before acting as if you personally withstood the slavery of these people...perhaps focus on the slavery that's unfolding right under your nose. The slavery that YOU have shackled yourself with.
Black Hebrewism is a construct and knee jerk reaction to the propaganda machine of CNN. You've been had. Nice job. Wake up. You're being played.
The reason no one believed this before people like yourself fell for the race baiting propaganda is because history doesn't teach it. Never has. Never will. A reactionary impulse to propaganda teaches this. You believe this because it fits your agenda (to hate white people and victimize yourself). It's not good enough for you to just hate white people and victimize yourself...you have an incessant urgency to stamp the approval of God upon it.
If your God looks just like you, thinks just like you and acts just like you....you're worshipping and believing in yourself (not God). You may be able to believe in yourself...but you'll never be able to save yourself. Repent from your self absorbtion.
Fix your eyes on the actual Christ...not the false one that's staring back at you in the mirror.
Iconclasm had nothing to do with race and images made from wood do get darker over time and also the smoke from the incense and candles burning over time darkens the mosaics and icons. Leave it to a so-called black Hebrew Israelite to stir trouble. I doubt you've ever been inside an Orthodox Christian church. Have you even been outside of America?
devil
Potato
I PLAY 55 SEONDS INTO THE VIDEO AND BY THE SOUND OF HER VOICE I KNEW THERE WOULD BE NO BLACK IMAGES SHOWN , SO I DIDN'T GO ANY FURTHER INTO THE VIDEO , BUT RATHER THE REAL IMAGES ARE SHOWN OR NOT IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY THE TRUTH .
44:41
People shouldn't be praying to icons smash'em! Except the ones of Jesus don't smash them. If they don't pray to icons them don't smash'em.
i have not watched the video, but i am going to respond to your comment from the Eastern Orthodox perspective:
Orthodox Christians do not pray to the icons - rather we pray to the Saint therein depicted. we do pray _in the presence_ of the icons in much the same way as the Israelites prayed _in the presense_ of the Cherubims in the Old Testament.
also, prayer is *not* the same as worship.
linguistically there is a distinction between prayer and worship.
for example: we may ask some one to _pray_ for us, but we don't ask someone to _worship_ for us.
Orthodox Christians venerate and pray to the Saints and Angels.
we _worship_ only the Triune God: *Father, Son, Holy Spirit*.
here is an article explaining the theological and scriptural basis for Icons _and their veneration_ within Eastern Orthodoxy:
orthodoxinfo (*dot*) com/general/icon_faq.aspx
regards,
theOrthodoxFaith (*dot*) org
Godly Mathew I never acusued you of worshipping icons,but being in the presence is sort of what I mean,but icons are pictures.
Godly Mathew besides I like the orthodox chruch,but there's a few errors,but don't take it the wrong way;)
Smash white Jesus too.
SKILLvsPILLS
your blasphemous words not far off from the mad cry of those who crucified Christ:
_'But they cried, saying, Crucify Him, crucify Him'_ - Luke 13_21
_'And they cried out again, Crucify Him.'_ - Mark 15_13
_'Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.'_ - 1 Corinthians 2_8