Are grids worth the money? When and why should you use them in the the studio and on location?
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- Опубліковано 12 лют 2021
- In today's video, we're going to explore the pluses and minuses of using grids and why I am not a big fan of them.
Some BTS footage by Rob Tracy
Click here for a full list of all the gear I use in the studio - shop.howl.me/JohnGress
Elinchrom Litemotiv 120cm Parabolic Softbox
Adorama howl.me/cjCnmnbIuZ0
Amazon amzn.to/3AumKiy
B&H bhpho.to/41JKL1V
Elinchrom Rotalux Stripbox 35x90cm (EL26644)
Adorana howl.me/cjCnv9oDSZ6
Amazon amzn.to/3nUwD3M
B&H bhpho.to/40PXZbZ
Elinchrom EL 26324 14 x 35 Inch 35x90cm Hooded Diffuser for EL 26180 amzn.to/3b0QYNH
Chimera Strip Lightbank Medium
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...
Music: Evolution by Bensound bensound.com/ - Навчання та стиль
I can’t believe these useful videos about photography are free on UA-cam!! You have no idea what importance they have in my life as an amateur photographer! Thank you again
Thank you so much Jorge! I am glad you like them! I come out with an exclusive longer video every month on my website johngress.com/academy/
@@JohnGress for sure! And I will see when you have another live class!
As you pointed out, in my small studio with low ceilings, grids are incredibly useful.
Although, I do often lean on smaller punchy modifiers like a 25.5" deep octa.
The 70CM deep octa is a great modifier.
I'm a cinematographer by trade... I've used grids in two thirds of all my set ups for about 25 years. I've realized that even though I "know" light and control it VERY well in the world of motion imaging... it is a bit different when capturing still images. For one thing, I'm nearly always using 1/48 shutter speed. This is due to shooting 23.98 frames per second. The only real way we control light in my world is by proximity, iris, ISO (up to a point) and light modifiers to either increase/decrease spill or soften/direct the source. I'm delighted that I've been able to adapt the majority of my motion imaging equipment to the still world. I have purchased strobes, instead of relying on 'hot lights' simply due to the heat in which they disperse. I think most still photographers would gasp if they realized that in most 'general' scenes of motion imaging, I use any where from 5-20 different lights for the image. Typically, I like to put light on each 'object' in our scene. Therefore, if I have a person, they'd have their own light; in many cases multiple lights (Key/fill/hair/up-light). The background may have multiple lights as well. If there's a product in the shot, it gets a special light all to itself too. Grids have been our staple to create and control mood in our shots. I'm excited to try your methodology and see if it works for me, in my still work!
Thanks for all of these great insights. I know you can vignette in post but its nothing like what we can do, so I totally get you needed to bake everything into the camera. I love using monolight style LEDs for motion because I can light like a photographer, but now you'll have me thinking more about grids. Thanks!
That last minute of the video is golden. It answers a lot of my questions.
Thank you for covering this topic. I’ve been looking for someone to address this. Great demonstration of how grids effectively increase contrast.
Thanks and thanks for watching!
Model was not in same position in video of grid vs with diffusion. Contrast would not be that bad. He made it worse then it needed to be.
Very succinct video John. Over the past four and a half decades of shooting professionally, I think it's important to know how and when to use the tools. There are times when flags, cookies, grids and half scrims really help me shape the light when needed, but it's also such a relief to do a shoot with minimal "extras". Cheers!
I hear that! Thanks Stan!
As a precious hallmark of all your video's, once more very dense, very interesting, very pragmatic and highly useful info's drawn and summarized by you from your vast experience and brought to us in a very quiet and pedagogic way.
Wow! Glad you like them. Thanks!
this was very useful ! thank you so much for sharing
Thanks! Glad it was helpful!
I use grids mainly with my sports individuals.. I want direct hit with no spill out to make it hard and for a more dramatic look and easier for post. And I also keep the grid on my main modifier for families in studio direct especially when shooting in a dark background. No spillage.
Good to know. I hope I did a good job explaining that part about using a grid to balance group lighting in case there are other family photographers out there who need this solution.
Very interesting topic John. I've just set up my very first home studio and have my first body builder shoot in a weeks time which is something I have been longing to do for ages. Because of the nature of the shoot and wanting to show texture and muscles my plan is to use my strip lights with grids to get the desired look and so this video was perfect timing for me. I shall definitely try with and without. As always, great content and well articulated...love your channel!
Thanks Mike! My guess is that in a confined space the grids will help you create contrast. Best of luck and TTYS!
Aa usual great video very useful information....
I have used grids for only background and hair light. But in smaller place or to bring more precised shadows I am looking forward to use with some modifiers.
Thank you john... You don't often use grids but your photos look like u use grids... That is your great techniques of lighting which I like... 😍
Thank you so much!
Thanks John for covering an interesting topic. I have only used a grid on my hairlight as you describe. Once in a while I use one on my 32” octa.
Thank you!
I recently bought a grid for my 120 octabox. It gave me more control on light spillage as currently I do portraits of clients in their home which sometimes are a bit challenge because of the various colors of walls or furnitures,etc that sometimes gives a bad color cast. Tfs john.
That makes sense. Color casts can be a pain!
you and Jason quants junior (who says you are the god of lighting more or less lol) have the best videos om youtube. I have learned so much from you two and i cant thank both of you enough..
Wow, thanks! He is a great photographer and I love his videos too.
I just did a lowlight session without and feel so proud that I didn’t need it!
Congratulations!
Great video as always. I bought a square softbox with included grid to control spill of light (my small spare room is my ‘studio’) but I think a recessed softbox with more fabric to act as barn doors might be more what I might actually want, because gridded main lights tend to give more distracting catch lights, especially when the subject is wearing sunglasses. I may have to clamp on some foam board to my softbox to simulate it, and see how that looks. Love your work 👍
Thanks! Great point! I didn't think about the reflections issue and the flag is probably the way to go.
Hi John, I increasingly find it interesting how various pro photographers have different takes on what and why they use or don’t use certain gear in there photography and this is especially so with lighting. I guess this is due to the very nature of the way light behaves, the laws of physics and so on, similar to sound it needs taming if we need it for a specific reason; manipulating or modifying which ever one chooses to describe how we use light in photography or film. What I like about how you pass on your knowledge is the way you go into a good level of detail (not overly tech but enough) to explain your own do’s and don’ts. What this level of explanation does for me is help me achieve my own preferences through experimentation, I get to hear and see comparison and can evaluate for myself from looking at a cross section of professionals work. This is only really achievable when the educator provides trusted explanations such as you do, I find myself revisiting your videos as I gain better understanding over time, a reinforcement mechanism I guess. Thanks John. 📸
Thank you so much! I’m finding teaching in general and through making these videos that I’m forced to really learn and understand what I have been doing. It’s sort of like cooking. You can improv a great meal on a whim by taste, but you can’t teach someone else or recreate it without a recipe.
@@JohnGress I’m a former college lecturer and curriculum manager, It’s like a great golf shot, not that I play, the hard work is done before and just after the club strikes the ball. Get it right and it’ll go straight down the fairway where everyone can see where the ball landed, the outcome. Get it wrong and you’ll end up in the rough or a bunker taking too many shots and losing. ... You’re doing good my friend, set clear objective, frame it, set the scene each step of the way and your learners will find their answer before you tell them them yours, they’ll enjoy the experience and always want more. Someone with your depth of skill and knowledge and experience has the potential to really stand the test of time on this platform. Lifelong Learning can be so rewarding and done well then provider and the learner are rewarded exponentially. Damn I’m thinking I may have a go myself!!
Thank you so much, that is great advice to think about setting the stage so the learners will know what I am going to conclude before I conclude it. Thanks!!
I couldn’t have said it any better! 👌🏼
Thank you John. Light spill is an issue in the 3mx5mx3m (W/L/H) shooting area of my sunroom so I've adapted by griding almost everything. Your comment that grids block oblique angle bounce thus changing the quality of the light is something I'm trying to solve. Maybe I'll try sewing a deep front diffuser for one of my strip boxes that emulates your hair light. A 10cm (4") lip looks about what you were showing. I appreciate the knowledge you willingly share.
Thank you. It sounds like your on the right path. Perhaps a a 10cm lip, a close in softbox and something black on the other side will do the trick.
Great video, my only purpose for using a grid is to keep the light off the background if I want to light the background in a creative way but you're right it does change the character of the light.
Right on. Since I rarely use them, I didn't really understand that they change thecharacter until I started researching for this video and another one I have coming out in a few weeks.
Finally someone makes sense about this mambo jumbo grid thingy. I feel the same. 👍🏻
Ha. Thx!
I know this video was about grids but I LOVE how that group photo was processed. It almost looks cartoony. That look is different and I'd love to see more like that.
Thanks! It was my normal post process. I have tutorials on my site and there is a three day free trial if you want to check them out. =) johngress.com/academy/
Thanks for this. I’ve always felt the same way, but never heard anyone else articulate it.
Using a smaller or no modifier seems to reduce light spill too in the same way a grid will, just never heard anyone say it before.
Alternatively, if the issue is keeping key light from spilling onto a background, usually just physically moving the model farther from the background does the same thing.
Thanks Ted. There are so many ways to get the job done and most of the time a really expensive accessory isn't the best answer.
Recently moved from a Main Street studio after 24 yrs to a home built studio. I am finding light bouncing all over the place. Have been considering octoboxes ( I use Larson 4x6' as main and others for fill, background) decided fairly quickly that wouldn't solve the issues. Tonight, I thought, ah! perhaps grids on the background and hair light(s), maybe even fill light (only used for groups as in your video, and now I'm completely confused. (smile). Great video. Thank you for sharing. I may do background lights with grids, test those out and go from there.
Oh well I hope I said this in the video but if I were in a confined space I’d use them. Also black fabric or vflats to keep light from bouncing off of things.
Hi John. Your friend from across the pond again. I hope you are keeping well. Thank you for this video. I have never actually used a grid but rather flags when shooting product. It was not something taught to me by any photographer in the past. I am curious now however as I plan on doing some body sculpture in the not too distant future (in May after my second vaccine), for the first time. I have always flagged and also used a black board or card with a 3x2 hole (sensor ratio) cut out to stop flare. The grid might be an easier solution rather than probably having to flag both sides to the stripbox(s) and then a home made lens hood. Once gain thank you and wishing you and your family all the best. Keep safe fella.
Thanks mate! All is well here. I hope to get the vaccine someday soon myself. Someone earlier today said that grids are the lazy person's flag!
John! I literally have on my schedule today to record a video about grids! You beat me to it. We really do think alike a LOT! I'm going to record it anyway and maybe folks will think I'm copying you but oh well. Hope you've been good.
Ha! Beat you to it. I forgot something you could add. =) Grids can block reflective objects in the background, like windows, from seeing the light and shining it back into the lens. All is well and I hope you have been great too!
oh and two new ideas from the comments, they create odd reflections in sunglasses etc. and they're a lazy man's flag (according to a few guys on here), which I thought was funny.
we also made another video recently that was the same topic - too funny!
I use grids to help with reflections on glasses and windows plus they are just a lot quicker to control light especially with video
A nice video as always!
One off topic question: In one video you said, that you prefer flash over continious light, but at 2:05 or 5:55 you are using continous light, don‘t you? I‘m really fresh in photography, but if I understand correctly, you use it as modeling lights? Why not flash? Even in beauty photography, where sharpness is everything, they use continous light (at least in the few videos I could find). Like Karl Taylor with a big Para reflector (which is also continous, if I understand that correct(?))
Thanks. I almost always take my behind-the-scenes photos with the flashes you see in the seen, not the modeling lights. The two images you cited were not shot with continuous light. The biggest reason why I do not used LED lights is because they were not bright enough to produce truly professional results. I cant speak to what someone else is doing in a particular video, but I think he uses Broncolor Paras which can be used with continuous lights but most people use them with flash. Here is a video about why I don't think photographers with limited resources should buy and use LED lights. ua-cam.com/video/x419b0yxmoI/v-deo.html
Thank you :)
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
when my light is ony is shadows the honycomb tattern as a light. what am I doing wrong?
I love grids for my low key work
I have one was thinking if getting one for the mola
My concern about them for the beauty dishes is you may be blocking the diagonal beams which make the light special. But you would have to do some testing.
Hey John, learning a lot from you thanks for that. i just wanted to know like what is the correct height that we should place the light from the subject. sorry if this is not the right question here 😜
Thanks. The bottom of the modifier should be equal with the jaw line or if that is not possible, the flash tube should be higher than the eyes.
@@JohnGress thanks so much and I value the help you've given me, very informative and learning a lot from you John
That is great to hear! Thank you!
I use them most of the time since I have a very tiny space and when I don't want to spill light to the background, or light the background separately, with my main light I use a grid. And yes, the mark up on grids must be very high as I find it hard to believe it costs the anywhere close to what they sell them at, not to mention not much R&D has to be done on them since they are mostly of the same old design.
I have seen people making and selling them on eBay at more affordable prices.
Elinchrome 35x90 cms stipbox .. can u give the link pls off product.
And is it umbrella type stripbox ?
And u mention 6.53 too 7.00 block the rays dignaonaly coming .. can u explain more on this.. thanks .
Elinchrom EL 26324 14 x 35 Inch 35x90cm Hooded Diffuser for EL 26180 amzn.to/3b0QYNH
In theory, when light rays hit the diffuser they are supposed to scatter in every direction. So if you have your softbox off to one side and its feathered so its not really pointed at them, but a little in front of them, then the light coming out of the softbox from the furthest point away from your subject is coming back towards them in a diagonal direction and filling in the shadows cast by the part of the modifier near them. So if you're using a grid those diagonal beams cant reach your subject and your lighting will look more harsh.
Great content as always...i shall be going a little off track with my question here...i have observed some of your photos being featured in the website of gravity backdrops...so i guess you are using gravity B-drops...can you please let me know what size canvas backdrops are you using...what would be the texture - Low/ medium ??....I am thinking of buying the package 2L + M...but am confused which 3 colors and types to buy...I am just at the mercy of the photos displayed on the website...it would be really nice of you if you can help me out with this...and in general how has your experience been with these backdrops ?
Thanks Sharad. Most of mine are mid size and I think I have an large but its not that much bigger. Texture is really a personal choice I have some that are very low texture and some that are high. I think it just really depends on your taste and also your f-stop. If you're shooting a lot at f2.8 you might want more texture should it will be visible when there is less depth of field. One thing to consider as well is will your subjects hair blend into the background so in that case you might want to avoid backdrops that match the color or brightness of your average subjects hair. More simply if most of your subjects have black hair, you will probably want to avoid dark backdrops.
@@JohnGress Thank you for the explanation...much appreciated....i also wanted to know whether the backdrop photos shown on the website match closely to what you get in real life after receiving your order...do the colors, tones and textures match more or less as seen in the pics ?
The photos are more or less how they look in person. How they will appear in your photos will vary depending on how much light you have shining on the backdrop.
Great video as usual. However, I have one question slightly non-related to this. Is it important to have a kicker light in case your background is black and your subject hair is almost merging in the background. Does this kicker light need to be there every time?
Thanks. I think using a hair light and a kicker are really helpful to separate your subject from the background so they don't blend into it. These accent lights don't have to be very bright to add a little bit of detail to the sides and top of your subject. You might also enjoy my most recent video on hair lights where I specifically address this topic: ua-cam.com/video/EfHmfC089q4/v-deo.html
@@JohnGress I am highly grateful that you are on youtube. Thanks.
I am shooting newborns on a bean bag and also low in props like buckets. I want a soft light that doesn't spill. Would the grid be ideal for the small space I shoot in? Currently only using one d-light on lowest setting and feathering. I shoot with 50mm and 35 and 105 nikon and a d5.
I don’t think the brightness of the light relates to the spread of the light. So you could go up in power, so long as you stop down to match. You could always move the light in super close and that will cause the fall off to increase. If you’re having difficulty with the light going onto the backgrounds a grid or a flag might help. I can imagine that intricate newborn shots are more difficult than shooting food so I don’t envy you.
I used grids yesterday. I will be thinking carefully about how I feel about my results after watching this video
Good to know! Let us know how it goes.
Didn't cover moving the grid one lower and more in face approach.
However I do like your style good sir! Great portaits!
Thank you.
John- ever use the PLM umbrellas with a scrim cover to make it a large soft box? I would love to see what you could do with those ( I ask because I can't for the life of me get anything but "flashy" light out of it no matter how much I feather ....HELP!
Ahhh in a week or two I’ll be posting a video comparing five different main light modifiers including a deep umbrella with a cover which I think may shed a little light on your situation.
@@JohnGress Awesome! Huge fan of your work.
Hey John,
A bit of an unrelated question: Which adapter do you use for your laptop (The one that is attached to the stand at around 0:55)?
Thanks!
I think you mean this one amzn.to/2V6omyk mounted to a grip head amzn.to/2UBwTcV with stud amzn.to/2Vbb8k1
@@JohnGress Exactly what I meant, appreciate it :)
Sure thing. Thanks!
Hello. Your portrait work reminds me renaissance era.. Could you please help me i am Canon user i have mark iii & 4 but few days back i sells mark iii for upgrade but canon have R5 & Sony a7 r iv what did you suggest..
Thanks! I would suggest the R5 because it's newer and I don't think its a good idea to switch brands as Sony, Canon and Fuji will continue to innovate and out do each other. You would probably enjoy my Review of the R5 ua-cam.com/video/iLeteAjqAm8/v-deo.html and my follow-up from 6 months later ua-cam.com/video/TfDI8rB7vsE/v-deo.html.
@@JohnGress thanks SO much for your support... I need little bit experts advice.. Thanks again for advice.. I am buying R5 now bye TC
Sometimes I shoot in my living room, and it's pretty tight. I have an issue with the light spilling onto the backdrop too much, I think a grid would help control that better.
Yes, that;s exactly the type of situation where they will come in handy!
Please come to Melbourne downunder and I will arrange a workshop for u John. We would love to learn from you
That would be great. It’s on my bucket list! Because of covid a friend had to move back to Melbourne so it’ll be one of the first places we visit. 😁
Yep- because I am taking pictures at home, grids are necessary to limit the spill of light when using softboxes. Nowadays the choice of gear is larger, and if you are not a pro making money out of photography, then the lower value softboxes often already include a grid.
That is a really good thing about them. For sure. After making this video, I want to make one about flags.
@@JohnGress great channel BTW, keep up the good work :)
Thanks!
I hate velcro with a passion. I use a grid sometimes with a 7 inch reflector for a hair light but I rarely use them on softboxes
Use grid then use illustration board on the other side to control how much of a shadow it brings
Do you have any tutorials on your editing style??
I am working on and LR and C1 paid tutorial =)
Thanks for the video! I personally think grids are an unnecessary addition sort of thing. They can bring some extra value and creativity but meh.
We can do just great without them in my opinion. It's just one of those too much items. But maybe one day I will value them more I don't know.
I think I pretty much agree. For the most part I would rather flag.
I like grids on my rear/side light and hair lights, not on my front facing key and fill lighting.
I don’t think there is a right or wrong on this. What I see on your last example you used the grid to create a vignette kind of lightning and without a softer more even lightning. Is use my grid mostly for filling. I don’t use reflecting, instead I use a rectangle or strip softbox to fill the shades. The grid helps against spoiling light all over the place and have maximum control over where I want put light. And in the end there is a fair amount of taste when making portraits in the process.
I just wanted to further educate people on grids in general. I think the wrong way to use it would be to use a grid when it's unnecessary and then the photographer unknowingly changes the quality of the light.
Im watching this video with the unopened package of a 120cm grid I just bought, and now I feel depressed.
Well before you take drastic measures. Are you often shooting groups of people or working in a confined space with lightly colored walls? Then you probably need it.
You are saying "you don't need a grid and you don't have this problem", yet in the same example there is a grid on your softbox at 4:13! I'm sure I am missing something here.
Good catch. I use to use a grid on my hair light so I could insure that no light would spill onto my backdrop, but then I realized that if my hair light had a recessed face and I angled it just right, I would get the same results. ua-cam.com/video/EfHmfC089q4/v-deo.html
I love using Grid on the portraits but not on a group photo! and you should have more then 5 grids max I think it wort your money
great video (only at 1.25x speed)
or justuse the photoshop lazo tool to dark area nearby 😜
I both use and don't use grids. It depends entirely on what I'm trying to achieve. Grids are most useful, I find, for controlling the exposure of my background with the inverse square law. Sure you can also feather the light off the background, but that changes the shape and relative size of the light source while also adding intensity to the fill light coming from the walls, floor, and ceiling. And the issue with moving the subject and light source further away from the background is that in wider shots you may have to extend the background in post which I have found is impossible to do perfectly, even if you have fairly large backgrounds. It totally depends on your style and how much you feel the need to separately light the background, so simply arguing grids aren't all that useful in general only presents one side of the story.
I’m not sure based on your comments if you watched the video. I explored positives and negatives.
playback speed to 1.25 or 1.5 - you're welcome
Grid == lazy guy's flag. That's how I view it :)
LOL! Too funny!
I appreciate lazy people and their work, I see your comment with furrowed brows. Lazy people are not looking for the absolute most elaborate but great results after they have first thought properly and then leave the sofa to act (is there anything lazy people can do quickly?). Yes! they get tired quickly
It is good to have them if you need them, but it´s bad, if you need them and don´t have them.
Very true! It's also bad to use them if you don't need them.
@@JohnGress It`s an additional tool in my treasurechest, to control the angle of light on my different lightshapers...like barndoors or flag´s/cutters. The opposite would be a additional diffuserpanel in front of big softboxes...or a diffuser sock/shower cap for the reflectors, which are made out of metal.
Both types aren´t always necessary, but sometimes, you will play with them, to get what you want.
Litemotiv with Grid vs without. Your model is Not in the same position.
Showed you don't like the grid with model facing away from light and towards the light without grid. Not a good way to show. 7:01 OF VIDEO
The point I was making is that the grid can restrict the amount of white surface the model sees and that changes the light quality. At 7:01 the light is softer on the right and the skin has more texture on the left.