We FAILED OUR ELECTRICAL INSPECTION! Now What?!
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- Опубліковано 12 січ 2019
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In 2015 we quit our lives in the city to buy bare land in the country and build a timber frame home from scratch with our bare hands, debt-free, with no prior experience. It’s been a wild ride of ups, downs, highs, lows, rain and rainbows, but we haven’t lost sight of our goals and have gotten further in three years than we thought we’d get in ten. Join us as we build our house, develop our rural property, practice traditional skills such as gardening and food preservation and go to even greater heights (literally) of exploring the world through aviation as a new private pilot!
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Too bad, you guys don't seem to actually read these comments! I mentioned the GFCI breakers about a dozen videos ago. A GFCI outlet is NOT required at each location when you use (and save money) a GFCI circuit breaker to protect the ENTIRE CIRCUIT, on as many circuits as required or needed!!!!
Jessie, do yourself a favor and put another breaker box on the main floor of the house. Depending on the number of circuits, it may become a nightmare running the Romex between the garage and main floor. That way you only have to run a main feed wire up between the main and garage. I'm not an electrician, but it seems like that might make your life a lot easier when you start up there.
Interesting factoid... While GFCI means Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter, many people think that a missing or bad safety ground will cause it to trip. Not at all the case. What trips a GFCI is if the current in the "Line" or "Hot" wire does not exactly equal the current in the neutral wire. If you are being electrocuted, some of the current normally in the neutral wire is going through your body to ground. However another cause for tripping a GFCI is if you accidently wire a circuit to the neutral wire of another circuit. This is easy to do in new construction. The GFCI trips immediately and repeatedly until the wiring problem is found.
Ask your Inspector if it wouldn't be possible to put in a subpanel up stairs to wire that floor into from power from the basement panel. It would be a lot less work than running all of the wires down to that panel.
FYI for future use. We used to use ground clips on metal boxes that did not have provision for a ground screw. Ask the inspector of these are still allowed. The ground wire folds over the edge of the box and the clip is pushed over it to maintain a good connection. Also it might be an idea to plug mount it if you add another overhead heater.
Don't mind the people that scoff at following the code, that attitude can cause fires and deaths. Hats off to your inspector, it is great when they act in an advisory role, most do but some don't.
You should have gone with the homeline panel from square d and used the plug on combination breakers. They're very common and available at every home center.
you could have saved some money and time by putting a single 200 amp gfci breaker outside in the main disconnect
Don't bother with lock-out breakers, just cord connect all of your devices. ie water heater, furnace, range, aux. heaters. I'm a retired electrician.
lesson to learn: talk with the inspector on what is required or not and nobody else. This is the guy who is up to date on code requirements and the one who can give advice (hopefully he will do). Especially when you are a first timer DIY
GFI's save thousands of lives PER YEAR. They are a god send to the electrical world. WELL worth the investment. Trust me, i've tripped one standing in water beside my swimming pool and using a switch. Don't know if i would have died or not, but glad there was a GFI there. Still hurt my arm up to my shoulder before it tripped. GFI's are a no brainer.
As preciously suggested, I would run separate sub panels for every floor to make distribution and local access easier.
Stove 240 outlet. Almost positive that your 50 amp outlet only allows one wire per screw. So putting the #10 bonding and #6 power wire isn't code. NEC 2017 Article 110.14A
We have 1 GFI breaker for our whole house here in Sweden, much easier and cheaper.
you can get a GFI that covers the whole box.They use them in Canada alot.I would use that.It would make the hole box GFI
PRO TIP*****are you sure the inspector didn`t say arc fault breakers****** if indeed it needs the gfci a alternate to breakers would be to install a rack of gfci receptacles at the panel and feed thru them.
You should have put the temporary breaker feeding the house as the GFI breaker, then the inspector can say anything about it. Says me, an actual electrician.
Temp power is treated entirely different then perm power. Your mistake was getting an electrical inspection in a temp state. I don't understand your reason for having one at this stage.
In the UK we fit GFI on everything now within a domestic house. We call them RCD's or RCBO's are the all in one device(Residial current devices) and all breakers have built in lock out design.
Need to just rip out that 30 space panel and get a 40 or 42, MLO panel, 1-for the additional room and 2- You're going to need the spaces. Unless you run a 100 amp sub feed to another MLO panel upstairs. Sucks having to redo stuff isn't. There is a reason we Electricians charge what we do, experience!
Is there a reason why you buried the electrical panel in the wall rather than flush mounting it to the same wall inside the utility room onto 3/4 plywood?
The line of sight is correct in residential. Hot water heaters, well pumps and other appliances that cannot be "unplugged" need their own safety shutoff if the panel breaker cannot be seen from the appliance. In lieu of that there needs to be a lockout on the breakers that can be locked with a padlock. Section 422.30 of the National Electric Code (NEC) requires a disconnecting means for all appliances.
We had the same problems with electrical issues as you did in your video and we live in Illinois. My wife and I have been following you from day 1. We think you and your wife are awesome.
Alert... If your electrician hasn't already told you, You need to get the inspector to clue you in on the amount of ARC Fault breakers your gonna have to purchase. Also, all the kitchen plugs are gonna have to be GFCI/AFCI receptacles. Even the ones farther away from the sink. In the last three years it's gotten very expensive to wire a house.
In hindsight, I would plan on putting in a sub panel somewhere up stairs in the house. You'll have that main filled before you know it.
I was initially like "Grrrr, %$&@^ codes" but then I remembered the house across the street that burned down last year. It was started from a circuit in the garage wiring faulting out. GFCI would have stopped that. No one was home at the time so all were safe. The bad/interesting part was that the homeowner is an electrician.
Ground clip for that metal box and extension would have be easier. You could use wire ladders for that stud bay, reason they are made. Don’t forget to add kock out plugs so u pass inspection. the NEC is designed or made to protect life and prosperity.
Your channel is so great fingers crossed people enjoy our videos as much for our off grid farm
Well done Jesse. But to be fair the electrician that has been helping you probably didn't know about the rule if building while occupying you needed GFI breakers on everything
I like your thought process where you’re trying to do the right thing not only for the safety of your family but to also satisfy the inspectors, which are actually trying to keep you and others safe. So, keep up the good work you’re doing. Also keep n mind that y’all are teaching others at the same time. 😃
🛠️🏗️🏡 good day to you guys !! thanks for the update and adventures on & off the homestead whilst building your dream house 🏡🏗️🛠️
So our jurisdiction not only adopted a GFCI but everything has to be arc fault circuit protected as well if you were putting in new
The code requires Arc Fault breakers which is what he showed in the video. They are expensive and now required in most parts of the dwelling. They are more sensitive than GFCI.
We installed GFI breakers to our house, even when they were not required, because of the safety issue. You quickly forget about the extra cost involved. Peace of mind - priceless.
number 10 grd needs a lug not a screw .just put a lock on panel door for lock out breakers and sign the panel -- see home owner for key to lock an put padlocks on exterior panels same key
should have used conduit on that wall with the stove.. thats just a lot of mess .. even surface mounted conduit would have been better.
I would have run all of that electrical on the ICF walls in EMT conduit. And then I would have refilled over top of the conduit after the inspection. And it would have looked really good. That's what I have done in my own garage.
Great to have you back again - every one needs a break but I have missed you and my wife has missed bugaboo. Great job on the electrical changes.
I channeled the NM cable in our ICF's. According to our inspector, as Long as the wire is back 1 1/4" and held in place with foam, no other securement was necessary.
Also why did you unhook all the wires in the water heater when all you needed to do is untwist the grounds and add a wire to ground the box?
Thank you for the update and sharing. This was interesting information. I know lockouts are for commercial, but never hear of them for residential property. Place GIF circuit breakers have been required in may areas for a few years on new construction. :< Keep up the good work.
EMT boxes, the easy way to remove the tabs is to hit the tab with the front of electricians plyers. This will push the tab into the box. Now you can use the plyers to ply the tab out by moving it back and forth. Hope the helps. When removing a 3/4 tab, first remove 1/2 tab, then reach in to remove 3/4 tab, this will all take lest then 15 seconds. Trying to use a screwdriver is to much work.
I think when you where putting the 50 amp plug back together it looked like you placed 2 ground wires into the plug and screwed them down. Not sure if I saw that correctly. If this is true please fix. Only one wire can be inserted or attached to each screw on outlet or switches. This should be a pigtail. The issues is the wire could over time come lose and short, or you lose your ground.
I have been renovating my house for 4 years and not an expert but one thing I have learned if its metal ground it. If you want to future proof your electrical system, use GFCI/ACFI and/or ACFI on everything. The new rules are going this way. The cost of putting in electrical is going through the roof.
It is bad practice to test that the power is off on a circuit using the a “non contact” tester.. you should only test with a meter via the test leads or a test lamp.. it is too easy to get a false indication or lack of indication with the non contact...
Hats off to you Jesse and Alyssa for all the safety measures you are tending to.
Better safe than sorry, good job Jesse. Glad it's all working out for you and your family. Thanks for sharing.
Instead of using a lockout you could put a disconnect or a plug and outlet. The reason is that if the breaker isn't in line of sight is so while working on it, someone doesn't go and flip on every breaker when there lights not working. I have personally been working on something when a idiot removes the don't turn on tag, breaks the lockout and turns it on. The whole time they had a bad cord.
Is that breaker GFCI only? By the looks, its also AFCI fault which would make sense as they're designed to protect against damaged wiring. (Ground Fault vs Arc Fault)
You need to use is a romex stacker for the small stud bay. you can hold up to 6 romex and it keeps the wires in the center of the bay.
Its learning experience for all. That's what happens when you do things slightly different from the norm. How many DIYer live in their house while building it and do it to code at the same time and push the edges like you are doing. Congrats on working through the issues.
Hindsight is 20/20, I work for a utility company and I think it might have been cheaper to put a disconnect sub-panel where your sub-panel is and used a main disconnect GFI breaker at your sub-panel it would have covered all the breakers in that panel. just a thought for those doing something similar.....
I am about six months away from building our home and to see your calm nature, in dealing with electrical inspection issues, is very reassuring. We all have heard of horror stories about the “CODE “ and inspectors. Thank you for reminding me, it’s not about government overreach, it’s about learning to do it right....(Default- IMO)
this is why we do not work in the Netherlands wires in the wall so there is an auxiliary pipe around the wire for safety.
glad to see all the rework isn't getting you down. Seems as soon as we figure something out the rules change. Be happy you know your home is safe.
in my area the guys will run 2ft of bx cable out of the panel to a junction box with a gfi outlet right near the panel. and then they run their wires to everything else from the gfi outlet down so everything down stream is gfi'd. so they keep regular breakers and then once out of the panel go gfi. romex after the gfi outlet. they are only allowed 11 outlets down stream cause you waste an outlet near the panel for gfi protection. so when the gfi flips, the breaker flips or gfi or both and then u go to the panel and u can see which gfi outlets flipped cause of the light.
I have never heard of the need to put a Lock Out device on the breaker in a residential! only in a commercial application! As for the GFCI, that must be a local code requirement! I just looked it up in the code book and it is only required for temporary use. with that said, I can understand the need for like the range, fridge, washer/dryer since they will be moved later once the house is completed. but the water heater.... that is permanent. Oh well, really don't understand these requirements for residential! Good Luck!! enjoy the video's!! Congratulations on the family addition!!
I hope you are going to get some plugs for the holes in the bottom of the panel. You will not pass inspection if the holes are open.
Good Information! You should use that metallic extension box from the range outlet on the water heater junction box to make that box code compliant based on the number and size of the wires you have in that box.
We did a large remodel (2nd floor), Nd I did all the outlets flex, etc. Put the metal plates on! It's worth it. Also take pictures for future remodeling. I know you think a video is enough, but, consider sequencing the pics with a yard stick so you can go back to the exact spot you need. Good luck
I noticed your washer door ajar. Good thinking! Keeps the mold out! I was also told by a washer repairman that if you use the chutes on the washer for feeding in the soap and fabric softener, the residue can create mold. He told me to add what I want in the washer via the big door, and instead of using liquid softener, use sheets. I have heard horror stories from front loader owners who didn't keep the door ajar and did use the liquid softener chute. I'm on my 2nd home with front loaders with zero problems!
Great Job. I see the points of the drywall screw coming thru the electrical box securing studs (Stud Bays) and the screw point is popping out next to wires (33.40 mark) .I think the screws may be a hair long. Thanks for sharing and Happy New Year
my how times have changed! So many new requirements and improvements for our protection.
you've added about 200% more work by not running metal conduit in place of your romex. now you've gotta screw guard that whole wall. also you could have used all of the knockouts if you just mounted the breaker box on the icf wall in the utility room. you wouldn't have had to deal with stud bays or that 2ft where the wires are exposed in your "storage" area
Might suck now to redo all your stuff but i think you will be happy that you did it down the road.
You mentioned that your little 20 circuit panel is about to get crowded.
Like I told you earlier, you need a 42 circuit panel. The law of garages applies here. "You will expand to fill all available space.
If you insist on keeping the little panel you have, you will need some sub panels in several locations.
The solution is to use the panel you have as a garage sub panel and put a main panel in the living space.
Do not be stubborn and understand that often esthetics is the enemy of practicality.
Jessy... consider spacing the reaming wall outlets 4’ apart to reduce drilling zip tie wire anchors.
The easy way of removing knockouts is with pliers. One hit with the pliers to dislodge the metal. Then use the pliers to wiggle the knockout until it breaks free. No need for a hammer ever.
Dont mess with the lockout mess. Put a disconnect or switch at the device. Way better/easier.
don't forget to get plugs for the panel where you abandon holes/knockouts in the panel
ALWAYS leave lots of extra
(FAR more than you think you need)
provision in your breaker boxes !!
Well done you guys! You've come a long way from where you were. You seem to take your lumps, learn and move forward with great resilience. Looking forward to seeing you pass!
I don't see why you cannot use conduit in the garage space run the cables. You might only have to drill through to the concrete to fix the conduit. I look at the garage as type of industrial space
I`m repeating myself again, but I have to say I really admire your attitude to everything, you hit a problem head on, then get stuck it to getting it put right! :) I wish I were near enough to lend you a hand sometimes, but walking from the central UK is a bit to far lol
Those yellow wires look much better the way they are installed now, too. Thumbs up guys! 👍😁
Finaly a video! I have come dependent on daily videos, so this long without a new video has been difficult, so please keep them coming. LOL! :D
I feel like 99% their issues with the exterior wall could be solved by a simple furred out wall.
Hi I hope you had a nice time over holidays and it's nice to see you again
Hey guys nice to see you back
Hi, Been waiting for another episode !! Actually the GFI's are completely standard in the EU , and are used on the output on each circuit (Lights - Plugs - Appliances) all have their independent GFI , so if the washing machine faults the lighting stays on ...... Keep it up guys ... And hello from Senegal , West Africa...
I have seen whole house GFCI protection devices. Can that work instead of having to replace all the breakers? Don't know which is more expensive but seems like it should work. Great work though. been following for a year or so. Keep it up!!!
I always told customers code compliance is a mater of their safety. Somewhat surprised they did not require arch fault breakers.
I agree, you couldve just put a 200A GFI breaker on the main disconnect to get around that part of the code instead of buying a GFI breaker for every single circuit.
Please Jesse get yourself an electricians pouch and a belt to hang it on, then all your sparky tools are in one place, you just grab the belt with pouch and go to work.
I have and very much like the Veto Pro TP3B google it, but there are LOTS of great tool pouches. You have a LOT of electrical work to do coming up, save time and make your work flow better by getting a tech or electricians pouch, trust me on this one.
Love the videos.
Cheers from Tokyo
"eye" loop zips are a life saver glad you found them at least!
Iove watching you guys learn and bonus I get to learn cool new things! Thank you as always for sharing!
on the GFCI 2 pole breaker the white neutral wire is primarily used to operate the test function on the breaker. When the test button is pushed there is a shunt from one of the load legs to the pigtail which trips the fault protection portion of the breaker. The two wire 240 circuit uses a different method in the event of a true fault. the breaker looks at both legs and compares current and looks for a differential which will then trip the fault protection.
Hey Jessie hey Alyssa great video and it's nice to see you two working together again even though it was for a short. Amount of time that you did work together and those Breakers that you put away for three years I think you should put them on Craigslist and then you should be able to get your money back that way
Hi, I am surprised that there isn't a single GFI that can be installed before the main breaker panel that can protect all the breakers in the panel. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say and good luck with your upcoming inspection.
I am glad you guys are back on UA-cam
Keep up the great work! If I may make a suggestion?, take out the stud on the left side of the panel to free up the knockouts there and put a horizontal support (wood or metal) across the top and bottom from right side of panel to the wall on left side.
I love how you show your steps right or wrong and show when you are wrong. You stress you are beginners and let us go along with you. Helping us plan our own future home building steps! Thank you! Haters buzz off!
Hello Jesse and Alyssa! Love the videos, you both need a vacation. Be sure to check with your electrician consultants, but I think you'll need to cap closed all of the knock-outs that are open to pass an electrical inspection.
for the water heater, place an air conditioning disconnect near it. That will allow you to not have to lock out the breaker. Also, Dont forget, ground faults are one requirement, on final inspection you will need arc fault breakers in a lot of areas of the house as well, so plan on changing some of the single pole breakers out to combination arc/GFCI breakers.
Has it occured to you yet that you can put out a 40 minute video, and people still watch and love your content? You have something rare. The effort you put in is paying off. Keep up the great work.
You guys have the patience of Mr. and Mrs. Job😇😇😇
I agree with 180 from average ( great handle by the way) In my jurisdiction locking out the panel is sufficient.
Can you not just foam within 12'' of the dryer box to secure the wire?
The inspector can approve two types of connects to a power utility line. 1.Temporary power such as a job-site temp power pole or 2. Electrical Service Connection after a final inspection. What is odd is that the power company connected to your main entrance before you had it inspected and approved as a Temp Power Entrance. GFCI's are required because temp power must be protected for outdoor / personal use because it for construction. Your inspector is bending over backward to make it work for you, because most would say install a temp pole and then you would need to jumper from temp pole to your main entrance and wow would drop amps available. Your inspector can't take money, some of that yummy home made jam may be in order.
GFI Breakers are mandatory here for certain places like bathroom and garage etc. It's for your own safety. I rather pay a "bit" more and be safe. And on the end, you can leave GFI breakers in permanently, you don't need to remove them.
Question???? Could you have use a GFI breaker system the protects the whole house. That's what we did at a cost (including installation) of $125. It protects every circuit but we still used GFI plugins in all the water danger areas also. Safety in home electrical systems has been in the past very iffy at best.
You likely will run out of spaces in the box when you wire upstairs and will have to put a sub panel somewhere upstairs to carry the additional breakers you will need.
So glad to see you’ll back. 😊👍🏻
Better to find out and fix these thing now, than after wiring the whole house. Good luck with the next inspection.