Ready to build your own dyno? I've redesigned the dyno into version 2.0! I've added automatic load control and taken the time to develop all the PDFs, DXFs, programming, parts lists, and more for you to make your own! Check it out here: dirtyelbowsgarage.etsy.com/listing/1560914825/diy-small-engine-dynamometer?Copy&ListingManager&Share&.lmsm&share_time=1694223616442
That’s some hard work and a cool project. I have a question to ask, sir. We are working on a dynamometer project right now as an undergraduate level project. We are looking for a reference project to begin with so that we can visualize the steps ahead and have something to compare and develop. Actually, we will design a small scale dynamometer. Nevertheless, it would be a fair starting point to look into your design. Is it possible for you to share the details regarding this project (CAD, names of sensors and machine elements, codes etc.)? It would be a huge help if you were willing to share. Thank you for your time and cooperation in advance.
If you wanted to Scale this up for Testing Old Single and Twin 2 Stroke Snowmobile Engines that made 12hp to 60hp, using 5500rpm to 7500rpm, how do you figure what Size Hyd Pump is needed? Instead of a Chain & Sprocket, just use the Sled Clutch & Belt setup.
On your unused flow control valve from your first video, I see it has a pressure relief valve installed. In such a case, the flow control would only work if you had a cylinder or motor on the outlet side connected hence, to control the speed of a motor or the extension time of a cylinder rod, and dump excess oil back to tank without changing the speed, pressure and gross fluid flow out of the system's prime mover (the main hydraulic pump). Some manufacturers recommend installing a plug on the relief valve's outlet port that normally would be piped back to tank but then depending on set up, you'd need a relief valve somewhere to protect the pump or some safety valve situation that would 'fail open' if things got out of hand. Just an observation. Have fun ! Be safe !
The last test I did on that valve was capping off the relief line and it still didn't build any pressure so I decided to keep moving in a different route. Good info though! I may try it on a different application where there's a flow based system output and see if I can use it then.
@@DirtyElbowsGarage Thanks for reply. Strange it's not building pressure even if relief blocked. In the mean while I happened across this vid. ua-cam.com/video/8dxGCeIkPFU/v-deo.html Same valve in flow divider use @ 1:20 (set of open center valves connected to inlet port of flow control). See "Can the EX port be blocked or plugged?" under FAQ's in the Installation sheet PDF link below. Requires a different spool but does not say changing the spool alone or both spool and AND pump. In this case you might be able to use a log splitter load sensing control valve where it snaps its own spool back to center (neutral) when the ram is fully retracted or when your flow control valve is closed in your case (thereby both dumping pump discharge back to tank and a manually engaged or disengaged automatic safety pressure dump) instead of changing to an expensive load sensing pump. Flow valve installation sheet: brand-hyd.com/wfdata/files/install/valves/FC_Installation_Sheet.pdf NO. I'm not affiliated with or compensated by any of the links or products. Just raw research. Reference schematic of flow valve: brand-hyd.com/Products/Valves/Flow_Controls/FC_0-30_gpm/ Reference auto return to center w/adjustable to 2000 psi kick out pressure log splitter valve: www.hydradynellc.com/images/document/brand-hydraulics/Ls.pdf www.shopcross.com/brand-hydraulics-ls755t4jrsha-log-splitter-valve-34-nptlevert4-spooladjustable-detent
I am building a dyno just like this but our target is to measure upto 60 hp and bought a pump according to that specs. I need some confirmation about the specs of the reservoir, how strong my reservoir should be to handle that system?
This is awesome! Great job! I’m thinking about building one. Do you have links to what you had to buy to build it? How much coding did you need to do for the andrino?
Ok glad to see you building it but why did you not make a base plate that would hold the pump and the engine or conect the square tubes? also why is the chain so long? Also if you put a cogged belt drive would help a lot. Base plate is the key and shorter drive! Great first try.
Great job!!!! What kind of pump are you using? And how did you pick the right one? If I want to do mesarments for bigger engine (50+hp) how do I choose the right pump? Sorry for my bad English.
Check out the part of the video where I do the math. Work the hydraulic power equation using the hp you want, and find a hydraulic pump rated for the flow rate and pressure you'll need.
So the flow control valve acts as a brake system which to counter the drive shaft. Since you control it manually, is it hard to measure the dynamic torque at various load?
if I understand the question right, my answer is yes and no. The measurement accuracy and sample rate work as intended and measure exactly what they should. But because the load is applied by hand it, the output is affected by this and it can be tricky to apply the load smoothly.. However... I do have a project early in development to fix this!
Gday- I am building a similar dyno at the moment for go karts. Can you please tell me how the hydraulic pump is mounted? It looks like a bearing rides on the outside of the shaft (via a coupler)- I was thinking on doing the same but was worried about the weight of the pump and the fact the pump body is not supported.
There is a mount that attaches to the pump, and that mount rides in the larger bearing. This same mount is the moment arm that contacts the sensor. In the video before this one that part is welded and assembled and you can see how it comes together much easier than in this video. Typically the mounting face is sufficient to carry the weight and the load on the pump - unless you're stacking pumps, and even then works to an extent.
I am instrumenting an old hydraulic dyno similar to your setup. I am using a pressure transducer instead of a load cell. Could i possibly get a copy of your arduino code. I am struggling with the programing. Ken
I'm planning on getting the code out soon, just need to add more instructions to it so it's easier to follow. I'm not exactly sure it'll help if you're using a different syntax or controller, but the core of what's happening is there.
@@DirtyElbowsGarage I am familiar with arduimo. I do have some math for the weather corrections that I have incorporated into a spread sheet if you are interested.
If you keep max pressure at 3000psi you're going to be able to measure more power by increasing the flow rate. You do this by sizing up the pump's displacement.
Do you have a parts list? I'm considering building to test race kart engines so I would need to vary the RPM, etc with a bit more precision. I'm thinking some type of electronic valve as well as an electronic pressure sensor to do all of the math in real time. Would love your thoughts on a control system? Thx!
Thanks! And I don't have a parts list written down but in the fabrication video I show all the parts besides the weldments set out on a table. You could definitely use an electronic controlled flow control valve - probably a stepper motor would work best depending on what you're looking for. If you go the route of calculating the HP based on pressure, I'm assuming you're going to measure rpm and back out a flow rate with knowing the displacement of the pump. Hydraulic pumps have non-linear flow rates (the type of pump also affects this), so there will be a margin of error in the calculations depending on the rpm if you go that route. That being said, dynos used for engine tuning are only meant to show incremental gains between different power runs - or sustained load on an engine for tuning tables. So even a setup that has error will reflect improvements, even if innacurate. I hope this helps!
@@DirtyElbowsGarage Ok I think I follow you after a re watch. Essentially, the only time that specific pressure readings matters in your system is to ensure you aren't about to damage it? (there is another guy with a video of a very similar system that's actually doing the math from the hydraulic pressure reading which I personally didn't trust. He was talking about the margin of error on the gauges, etc which sounded like a mess. I would like to avoid that.) Anyhow, in my case if I built a control leaver that increased throttle and hydraulic load at the same time while logging the load cell and RPM would that give me both a mathematically accurate and a repeatable reading? I would think at least repeatable? Would the increase of the throttle or RPM need to be linear and in parallel with the hydraulic load increase or would the (T * RPM)/5252 still be the only thing that really matters as long as RPM and Load increase in such a way that the engine can still accelerate while under some type of load? I hope that makes sense... Thanks!!
Yep, the way I am using the pressure gauge is to make sure I don't exceed system pressure since I am not using a relief system to automatically protect it. Any gauges are going to have a margin of error but bypassing the hydraulic HP calculations, using torque and rpm instead, removes the non-linear flow rate factoring into the results. From the sound of the lever goal of increasing rpm and load it sounds like you're looking to do a more-traditional style dyno power run. Its not impossible but it is tricky. Running both throttle and load off of the same lever is possible, but you're going to have issues to work around. RPM and throttle aren't tied together when an engine is loaded - depending on the load size. Like I did in the video, I opened the throttle all the way, then applied a load. When the load & rpm exceeded the power that the engine could produce, the rpms fell. And this continued all the way down. But the throttle position never changed. That's not to say you have to always have to open the throttle all the way, but just know that the two are not tied together. What I recommend is two levers, one for load and one for throttle. You can then halt engine rpm using a combination of the two if you're looking at working at a specific rpm. However, doing this still won't get you the traditional power-dyno-runs where the rpm ramps up, unless you get really good with hand controlling the load - and even then I'm not sure you're going to get what you want. To get the traditional power run you need a closed loop control system - with an automated load control system. If you watch cars on dynos you'll see the operator press a key right before a power run. They are kicking off a "power run" and pressing the throttle down simultaneously. They dyno is controlling the load and it applies the load in such a way that it allows the rpms to climb at a pre-determined rate - and it is always adjusting the load to do so. Too little load and the engine will spin freely or accelerate too fast. Too much load and the rpms will stop climbing or even reduce. So the load is based on the rpm climb rate, and is always adjusting it to keep the climb going. Again not impossible, but quite a bit to it. Definitely a fun project.
Thanks! And that's really cool to hear! Here's a link to download the code. I added notes but it was put together pretty quick so it's not the easiest to follow: www.dropbox.com/s/xkx060kxx863a2e/Dyno_Data?dl=1
@@DirtyElbowsGarage Thanks for sharing your code!! hopefully i will have mine working in a week or so. I'm not testing small engines but electric motors, the main motor i would like to know the output for is an alternator that i have converted into a motor. So it will be really interesting to see how it stacks up against a normal brushless motor of similar size. Thanks for your time and sharing your information
Email me at dirtyelbowsgarage@gmail.com and we can talk more about what you're looking for. Finding the right Eddy current brake and control system is key.
Ready to build your own dyno? I've redesigned the dyno into version 2.0! I've added automatic load control and taken the time to develop all the PDFs, DXFs, programming, parts lists, and more for you to make your own! Check it out here: dirtyelbowsgarage.etsy.com/listing/1560914825/diy-small-engine-dynamometer?Copy&ListingManager&Share&.lmsm&share_time=1694223616442
would you be willing to help with any support? how could i contact you?
This is actually hella cool dude, great job
Don't have a clue how I found this channel, but you've got my interest!
That’s some hard work and a cool project. I have a question to ask, sir. We are working on a dynamometer project right now as an undergraduate level project. We are looking for a reference project to begin with so that we can visualize the steps ahead and have something to compare and develop. Actually, we will design a small scale dynamometer. Nevertheless, it would be a fair starting point to look into your design. Is it possible for you to share the details regarding this project (CAD, names of sensors and machine elements, codes etc.)? It would be a huge help if you were willing to share. Thank you for your time and cooperation in advance.
great job, but in hydraulics, filters go on the return from the pump not the supply
If you wanted to Scale this up for Testing Old Single and Twin 2 Stroke Snowmobile Engines that made 12hp to 60hp, using 5500rpm to 7500rpm, how do you figure what Size Hyd Pump is needed? Instead of a Chain & Sprocket, just use the Sled Clutch & Belt setup.
thank you- I really appreciate videos with this much info.
scary watching the chain tho... added drama
On your unused flow control valve from your first video, I see it has a pressure relief valve installed. In such a case, the flow control would only work if you had a cylinder or motor on the outlet side connected hence, to control the speed of a motor or the extension time of a cylinder rod, and dump excess oil back to tank without changing the speed, pressure and gross fluid flow out of the system's prime mover (the main hydraulic pump). Some manufacturers recommend installing a plug on the relief valve's outlet port that normally would be piped back to tank but then depending on set up, you'd need a relief valve somewhere to protect the pump or some safety valve situation that would 'fail open' if things got out of hand. Just an observation. Have fun ! Be safe !
The last test I did on that valve was capping off the relief line and it still didn't build any pressure so I decided to keep moving in a different route. Good info though! I may try it on a different application where there's a flow based system output and see if I can use it then.
@@DirtyElbowsGarage Thanks for reply. Strange it's not building pressure even if relief blocked. In the mean while I happened across this vid.
ua-cam.com/video/8dxGCeIkPFU/v-deo.html
Same valve in flow divider use @ 1:20 (set of open center valves connected to inlet port of flow control).
See "Can the EX port be blocked or plugged?" under FAQ's in the Installation sheet PDF link below. Requires a different spool but does not say changing the spool alone or both spool and AND pump. In this case you might be able to use a log splitter load sensing control valve where it snaps its own spool back to center (neutral) when the ram is fully retracted or when your flow control valve is closed in your case (thereby both dumping pump discharge back to tank and a manually engaged or disengaged automatic safety pressure dump) instead of changing to an expensive load sensing pump. Flow valve installation sheet:
brand-hyd.com/wfdata/files/install/valves/FC_Installation_Sheet.pdf
NO. I'm not affiliated with or compensated by any of the links or products. Just raw research.
Reference schematic of flow valve:
brand-hyd.com/Products/Valves/Flow_Controls/FC_0-30_gpm/
Reference auto return to center w/adjustable to 2000 psi kick out pressure log splitter valve:
www.hydradynellc.com/images/document/brand-hydraulics/Ls.pdf
www.shopcross.com/brand-hydraulics-ls755t4jrsha-log-splitter-valve-34-nptlevert4-spooladjustable-detent
I am building a dyno just like this but our target is to measure upto 60 hp and bought a pump according to that specs. I need some confirmation about the specs of the reservoir, how strong my reservoir should be to handle that system?
the original flow control was fine, by design would not work as you expected as it is a "Priority" valve. to use in a multiple circuit system.
Hello, in the math sector how exactly did you measure the GPM without having any sensor in your build about flow rate? Thanks a lot.
This is awesome! Great job! I’m thinking about building one. Do you have links to what you had to buy to build it? How much coding did you need to do for the andrino?
Great ideas if you add an explosion enclosure.
Ok glad to see you building it but why did you not make a base plate that would hold the pump and the engine or conect the square tubes? also why is the chain so long? Also if you put a cogged belt drive would help a lot. Base plate is the key and shorter drive! Great first try.
See Dyno 2.0 video!
Very nice man, congrats
Please tell me what valve you are using now... it looks like it provides good control with its many turns
good on ya !!!!!
Great job!!!!
What kind of pump are you using? And how did you pick the right one? If I want to do mesarments for bigger engine (50+hp) how do I choose the right pump?
Sorry for my bad English.
Check out the part of the video where I do the math. Work the hydraulic power equation using the hp you want, and find a hydraulic pump rated for the flow rate and pressure you'll need.
Any chance you could share the wiring schematic for the arduino and your sensors.
you must install a tensioner on the chain to stabilize your chain
So the flow control valve acts as a brake system which to counter the drive shaft. Since you control it manually, is it hard to measure the dynamic torque at various load?
if I understand the question right, my answer is yes and no. The measurement accuracy and sample rate work as intended and measure exactly what they should. But because the load is applied by hand it, the output is affected by this and it can be tricky to apply the load smoothly.. However... I do have a project early in development to fix this!
Gday- I am building a similar dyno at the moment for go karts.
Can you please tell me how the hydraulic pump is mounted?
It looks like a bearing rides on the outside of the shaft (via a coupler)- I was thinking on doing the same but was worried about the weight of the pump and the fact the pump body is not supported.
There is a mount that attaches to the pump, and that mount rides in the larger bearing. This same mount is the moment arm that contacts the sensor. In the video before this one that part is welded and assembled and you can see how it comes together much easier than in this video. Typically the mounting face is sufficient to carry the weight and the load on the pump - unless you're stacking pumps, and even then works to an extent.
I am having trouble with the data components any chance i could pay you to help walk me thru a few things?
Hi. Email me at dirtyelbowsgarage@gmail.com
I am instrumenting an old hydraulic dyno similar to your setup. I am using a pressure transducer instead of a load cell. Could i possibly get a copy of your arduino code. I am struggling with the programing.
Ken
I'm planning on getting the code out soon, just need to add more instructions to it so it's easier to follow. I'm not exactly sure it'll help if you're using a different syntax or controller, but the core of what's happening is there.
@@DirtyElbowsGarage I am familiar with arduimo. I do have some math for the weather corrections that I have incorporated into a spread sheet if you are interested.
What is Need to measure more hp? For example about 30-35hp
If you keep max pressure at 3000psi you're going to be able to measure more power by increasing the flow rate. You do this by sizing up the pump's displacement.
chain tensioner 😂😂😂 please 😂😂😂
My small engine is used like a car.. looking to build a Dyno for it
This is great stuff! Would you be willing to share your notes, the math you used, etc?
I didn't watch far enough 😛
Do you have a parts list? I'm considering building to test race kart engines so I would need to vary the RPM, etc with a bit more precision. I'm thinking some type of electronic valve as well as an electronic pressure sensor to do all of the math in real time. Would love your thoughts on a control system? Thx!
Thanks! And I don't have a parts list written down but in the fabrication video I show all the parts besides the weldments set out on a table. You could definitely use an electronic controlled flow control valve - probably a stepper motor would work best depending on what you're looking for. If you go the route of calculating the HP based on pressure, I'm assuming you're going to measure rpm and back out a flow rate with knowing the displacement of the pump. Hydraulic pumps have non-linear flow rates (the type of pump also affects this), so there will be a margin of error in the calculations depending on the rpm if you go that route. That being said, dynos used for engine tuning are only meant to show incremental gains between different power runs - or sustained load on an engine for tuning tables. So even a setup that has error will reflect improvements, even if innacurate. I hope this helps!
@@DirtyElbowsGarage Ok I think I follow you after a re watch. Essentially, the only time that specific pressure readings matters in your system is to ensure you aren't about to damage it? (there is another guy with a video of a very similar system that's actually doing the math from the hydraulic pressure reading which I personally didn't trust. He was talking about the margin of error on the gauges, etc which sounded like a mess. I would like to avoid that.)
Anyhow, in my case if I built a control leaver that increased throttle and hydraulic load at the same time while logging the load cell and RPM would that give me both a mathematically accurate and a repeatable reading? I would think at least repeatable? Would the increase of the throttle or RPM need to be linear and in parallel with the hydraulic load increase or would the (T * RPM)/5252 still be the only thing that really matters as long as RPM and Load increase in such a way that the engine can still accelerate while under some type of load?
I hope that makes sense... Thanks!!
Yep, the way I am using the pressure gauge is to make sure I don't exceed system pressure since I am not using a relief system to automatically protect it. Any gauges are going to have a margin of error but bypassing the hydraulic HP calculations, using torque and rpm instead, removes the non-linear flow rate factoring into the results.
From the sound of the lever goal of increasing rpm and load it sounds like you're looking to do a more-traditional style dyno power run. Its not impossible but it is tricky. Running both throttle and load off of the same lever is possible, but you're going to have issues to work around.
RPM and throttle aren't tied together when an engine is loaded - depending on the load size. Like I did in the video, I opened the throttle all the way, then applied a load. When the load & rpm exceeded the power that the engine could produce, the rpms fell. And this continued all the way down. But the throttle position never changed. That's not to say you have to always have to open the throttle all the way, but just know that the two are not tied together.
What I recommend is two levers, one for load and one for throttle. You can then halt engine rpm using a combination of the two if you're looking at working at a specific rpm. However, doing this still won't get you the traditional power-dyno-runs where the rpm ramps up, unless you get really good with hand controlling the load - and even then I'm not sure you're going to get what you want.
To get the traditional power run you need a closed loop control system - with an automated load control system. If you watch cars on dynos you'll see the operator press a key right before a power run. They are kicking off a "power run" and pressing the throttle down simultaneously. They dyno is controlling the load and it applies the load in such a way that it allows the rpms to climb at a pre-determined rate - and it is always adjusting the load to do so. Too little load and the engine will spin freely or accelerate too fast. Too much load and the rpms will stop climbing or even reduce. So the load is based on the rpm climb rate, and is always adjusting it to keep the climb going. Again not impossible, but quite a bit to it. Definitely a fun project.
so how many hp did the predator get??
In the video it barely gets up to 4 but since then I've tuned it up to 6.
Hi good job awesome
What is your data system??
The daq uses two sensors, a rotary encoder and a load cell. Both sensor's outputs are read by an Arduino Uno. 4:38
Maybe Warped Perception did it simpler? =)))
Love it mate!! I’ve made one similar your video inspired me. Do you mind if you could share your code please be good to see how you have done it.
Thanks! And that's really cool to hear! Here's a link to download the code. I added notes but it was put together pretty quick so it's not the easiest to follow: www.dropbox.com/s/xkx060kxx863a2e/Dyno_Data?dl=1
@@DirtyElbowsGarage Thanks for sharing your code!! hopefully i will have mine working in a week or so. I'm not testing small engines but electric motors, the main motor i would like to know the output for is an alternator that i have converted into a motor. So it will be really interesting to see how it stacks up against a normal brushless motor of similar size.
Thanks for your time and sharing your information
Very nice idea, anyway
Can u build me one of these for a eddy current hub Dyno?
Email me at dirtyelbowsgarage@gmail.com and we can talk more about what you're looking for. Finding the right Eddy current brake and control system is key.
would it be possible to share you code ?
I'm working on cleaning it up with a little more instructions and I'll share it then. I'll reach back out when I post the link.
@@DirtyElbowsGarage thanks i have parts just need code for testing
@@DirtyElbowsGarage thanks for the download but i click link it downloads a file dyno data but i can not open it
You are me, in about 5 years from now.
Help! The control side is whipping my butt
Hi, email me at dirtyelbowsgarage@gmail.com