If You Make Something Up First, It's TRUE!
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- Today, Sean McDowell responds to some TikToks. So I respond to his responses. Will he respond to my responses of his responses? Probably not, that would be ridiculous.
Cards:
Proof of Not God? An Atheist Claims to Falsify God:
• Proof of Not God? An A...
The Self Debunker Strikes Again!:
• The Self Debunker Stri...
Original Video: tinyurl.com/2c...
Sources:
Was Resurrection a Zoroastrian Idea?: tinyurl.com/2a...
The Divergent Views of Christ in John: tinyurl.com/22...
Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture: tinyurl.com/24...
Linguistic Clues as to the Date of the Book of Job: A Mediating Position: tinyurl.com/27...
When Was Judaism Founded?: tinyurl.com/25...
Creation Accounts in the Ancient Near East and in the Bible: tinyurl.com/24...
Ehrman, Bart. Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife.
Lexicon - Strong's G3495 - neaniskos: tinyurl.com/2c...
The Acts of Peter: tinyurl.com/kp...
Minimal Facts on the Resurrection that Even Skeptics Accept: tinyurl.com/ya...
Acts of Impropriety: The Imbalance of History and Theology in Luke-Acts: tinyurl.com/24...
Who is generous and to whom? Generosity among Christians, Muslims, and atheists in the USA, Sweden, Egypt, and Lebanon: tinyurl.com/24...
Eternally Damned, Yet Socially Conscious? The Volunteerism of Canadian Atheists: tinyurl.com/26...
National Study of Congregations’ Economic Practices: tinyurl.com/2b...
Are Happiness and Life Satisfaction Different Across Religious groups? Exploring Determinants of Happiness and Life Satisfaction: tinyurl.com/2c...
Pew Religious Landscape Study - Marital Status: tinyurl.com/28...
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As an ex-mormon from a divorced household, I have some insight as to why the divorce rate is so low.
Hint: it's not satisfaction.
Presumably, same for the Orthodox. And (at least some) Muslim groups, I suspect.
So, sexist control by the male partner, and potential danger to the female partner? Yeah, not surprised, sadly.
Hey! My name is Gary, and I am definitely NOT a gay unicorn. I am a very macho, straight unicorn, but willing to experiment if the other unicorn is cute enuff.
Look, it's Gary the "sexuality is a spectrum" Unicorn
Are unicorn names unique by any chance? -.-
@irrelevant_noob usually.
On the "but believers are happier, though" bit... such sentiment always brings George Bernard Shaw to my mind...
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life."
from _Androcles And The Lion_
great quote
I once had a conservative cite a study saying conservatives are happier. Then I read it and pointed out it said they were only the happiest in liberal countries and otherwise it was a wash at best. No response.
That state is not happiness.
Ignorance is Bliss.
Gay unicorn Garry is obviously a copy of Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe, leaf be upon her
More hen
More hen
Moor hen.
No. Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe pooped the universe into existence. Gary the Gay Unicorn is here to inspire us to participate in gay orgies. There is a difference.
Besides, Gary's neck is shorter.
Moor hen
5:30 "...and you shall call him Emanuel."
Mary: "You will be named Yeshua."
Christians: "Look how perfectly it fits together! 😍"
Thank the nonexistence of God that I'm not the only one who noticed this obvious glaring issue with arguing that verse is a prophecy about Jesus.
@Ponera-Sama And they always ignore Malachi.
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
Still not Yeshua.
Weird take from the Christians.
@@suicune2001sounds kinda 🏳️🌈
Add the fact that modern Christians (especially Americans) never use his actual name. Jesus is a romanization, not his actual name. I don’t think biblical Hebrew even used d͡ʒ….but they aren’t looking for “truth” as much as they want to whine they are. They just want to feel superior. What they believe doesn’t even have to be written in the bible….it’s not like they actually read it anyway. They are right, and if you don’t believe them, you are wrong. And that’s all that matters.
I am irreligious because I was unhappy at church. I'm at more peace with my depression and anxiety without religion because I know it's not a failing on my part because I didn't faith hard enough. My depression and anxiety just exist. So, I imagine folks like me mess up the statistics.
Same here! The depression, anxiety, and mood meds help, but nothing helped like studying the Bible and religion in college and realizing that Christianity was as much of a farce as all the other religions I didn't believe in. We might be predisposed to certain mental health issues, but a psychologically unsound, manipulative, intolerant, and abusive religion only exacerbates those issues to the point of being unbearable. Nothing is more (incert censored words here) than a religion that messes up your mind and then blames _you_ for it.
@derreckwalls7508 exactly. There are naturalistic explanations for our mental health, be it genetic or environmental, and thus can be treated with natural (i.e. not supernatural) means. For me, medicine and self care do way more for me than prayer.
I'm sorry that was your experience with church. It is supposed to be uplifting and supportive, but I know all too often it isn't. You can't fix depression with blame.
@@derreckwalls7508 Yep, christianity has gaslighting at its core, which is one of the main reasons why trying to pass it on to others should be illegal.
@@fluffysheap I got taken to church from the year dot, and as soon as I was able to properly understand the words being preached, I found it deeply offensive, illogical, creepy and boring.
Long before I learnt about brainwashing, I couldn't understand how my mum, who had a high IQ, could fall for such blatant pap.
Uplifting it certainly wasn't, quite the opposite, so I was very happy once I was old enough to be left home alone, as I wasn't forced into that cesspit of lies and worship of evil, anymore.
Sean doing his usual bang-up job of debunking himself
Honestly, do they think countering one point by debunking another of their arguments is worth it? Do they not notice that while in isolation, the make decent arguments, if you take them as a whole, they all cancel each other out?
Does their audience not notice this? What an I saying? Of course they don’t. To notice would be to have doubts, and that’s too painful, so they ignore the big picture to zoom in on the minutae
Sean is one of those apologists who makes me mad the most. Because he's educated, very clearly he is an educated man... but the blatant lack of curiosity for anything outside of his myopic view of religion is frankly insulting.
The Bronze Age is a fascinating time period, the first organized states rising and looking both familiar and alien to us in the modern day, but Sean McDowell brushes most of it aside when he claims Genesis is the oldest book and Judaism is the oldest faith.
Almost impossible to rank the apologists (on any metric).
What frustrates me about Sean is that he is working so hard to project an image of consideration and weighing arguments, while at the same time simply grasping the easiest apologetic way out of a cognitive dissonance.
And that his channel is basically an advertisement for selling the books his (father's) friends have written.
As someone who had to read his dad's book on apologetics? I hate his dad with a passion - that was the most boring book I've ever forced myself to read. And I was a Christian and excited about apologetics at the time!
I do admit that some of my ire towards his father has passed on to Sean. I hear the name "McDowell" and I feel the urge to clutch a highlighter while trying to force my eyes to stay open. Ugh. Flashbacks. 😵💫
@@oscargr_You can rank apologists by age, by weight, by height, by average word count, by words per minute, by number of arguments brought forward, by number of different words used, by bible knowledge …
I content it is very easy to rank them on some scales. Not very useful scales, maybe, but rank them you can.
@@advorak8529 I was thinking about the numerous comments I have read in the past about so-and-so is the most smugg, the biggest idiot, the most arrogant, dishonest.. etc.. those tend to be subjective.
But you are literally right, you can rank them.
Now please do. LoL
@@advorak8529 "Bible knowledge" is a bad example... They all know EXACTLY what god means, they are all correct, even though they all have a different opinion. 😬
Comment of the day made me realize god is a parasocial relationship. They read about him and go “god loves me! I read all about him and know it!”
I think the discussion about religious giving is really interesting. I grew up going to a small Evangelical church. Their beliefs were terrible, but they seemed to handle money in a way I approve of. One thing they did was be very open in communicating that regular donations were for the church operating budget, they held seperate charity fundraisers and were clear what those were for as well. The pastor was paid by (and could be fired by) the church as a whole, he did not control the money.
I only meant to mention money, but I left the video playing while I typed. I am extremely skeptical of studies about how happy religious people are. I would have reported higher happiness when I was religious than I would now as an atheist, even though I am far happier now than I was then. My religion taught me to diprioritize my feelings, and also commanded me to be happy. As long as my severe depression was at the regular level I would have said I was happy, because I didn't actually know what "happy" felt like until leaving the church.
@@bretthansen3739 Not only that, I think there is a lot of peer pressure to BE happy, so you convince yourself that you are happy, regardless of your true feelings.
@@OscarSommerbo True, in my former church it was taught from the pulpit that it was sinful not to be happy.
This is the first on-screen V Rhino video I’ve seen. And just. YOU’VE BEEN HANDSOME THIS WHOME TIME???!
If other people keep telling me that my dad wants a relationship with me and whenever I reach out to him he never responds, I am going to think he doesn't actually want a relationship with me. He as put forth no effort and has ignored my efforts. Why should God be any different?
Especially because their god is supposed to know everything, so it knows WAY more than I would about what would convince me. I might be wrong about what would convince me! But it could appear tomorrow and give me exactly what proof I need.
And it knows I'd be open to that possibility.
At least dad might have lost my phone number or been playing telephone tag or thinks I'm a telemarketer and that's why he never responds. God doesn't even have that excuse. It *knows,* on a more fundamental level than I could even dream of, and yet it fails to respond. And any time it has responded to people in the past, it's been in a way that's too easily dismissed as simple human bias and self delusion. So we can't even use that as evidence of mere existence.
God is different because whatever relationship, or lack of one you have, you know that you do/did in fact, have a dad and so you could have a relationship with them. Think the example would work better if you used maybe a cousin that wants a relationship with you, but no one in your family actually knows how you are related to this cousin as none of them ever met the cousin. Is the cousin even real, or just the laziest Nigerian prince scammer?
Typical deadbeat dad 😂
Because God is almighty and therefore would need no effort at all to convince you retroactively he's been the bestest dad ever. So he has exactly zero motivation to do it now, or ever. Wait, was I supposed to argue he had better reasons?
@@0LoneTech lol
38:00 interestingly enough, my bible teacher when I was in a private Christian High School was a pastor of a house church who believed that church buildings were wasteful and instead donated all their tithes to mission work. He was really into early church structures and he's partially why I am no longer a Christian. He helped me understand just how far separated the modern church is from its roots.
"...Im lookin at you Sampson."
...if i opened a hair dressers, I'd call it "Delilah's".
Gay Unicorn Gary is both a borrowing of and a reaction to the TRUE accounts of Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe.
More hen
The plug for Gay Unicorn Gary there at 12:00 was SOLID. All hail Gary. The one true Gay Unicorn.
There's a Gay Unicorn Gary Plug now?! Get me to the merch store!
@@wsteelecpj Gay Unicorn Gary approves. 😏
I love that @VicedRhino and @Paulogia both released anti-biblical prophecy videos on the same day, just responding to different Excusegists.❤️
It's a miracle!
It's wild to watch the slow slid of "what is evil" for christians. This guy's got a Spiderman lap top. When i was a kid comic books where a hard no. They whet absolutely evil and super heroes in general were not an acceptable thing to like.
That's still a thing with ultra conservatives, but McDowell is a moderate
Same thing with women, slavery, literacy, non-monarchism, etc, etc.
@@fluffysheap Yeah that's my point. I was raise pretty modderate christian and my mom wouldn't even let us into a comic shop. Not that like no big deal un less you're real hard core.
The boys ruined all superhero movies for me now. Everytime I see them I think of them as deadly metaphors for unaccountable police power.
Some christians can't decide whether to argue that the resurrection isn't an extraordinary claim in the sense that would require extraordinary evidence or to argue that the idea of a resurrection was so completely unprecedented that it couldn't have arisen from cultural transmission of ideas.
The problem with mormon divorce rates is that they believe that they can't get to the highest levels of heaven UNLESS they're married. That kind of incentivizes them to stay in marriages that they might have otherwise left.
Scientology isn't true, but it grew scary fast during the 70s and 80s, to wide geographic audience. And it was most certainly the first time someone invented Xenu and spaceships that looked like DC-8s. But according to McDowell it must be true.
Isn't true? 😔
But they have a holy book and we are pretty sure who the author was. That's bonus points, right?
And we have records of the founder saying - before he started scientology - that religions are great money making scams and if he wanted money, he'd start his own religion. This statement is, of course, proof that he'd never actually start his own religion to scam people, and thus, it's impossible that he would actually start a religion unless he was telling the truth. And this statement from him is more easily verified as fact than the claims of disciples dying for their beliefs, so it's clearly a better argument in favour of his stories, right?
@@oscargr_ putting "right?" at the end doesn't indicate sarcasm to non-native speakers.
@@a-blivvy-yus As for his assertion that the only way to get rich was to start a church, certainly is telling. But I don't think it would invalidate his religion solely based on that. His followers most likely knew about it, and ignored it.
@@OscarSommerbo He didn't say it was the only way, just that it would be a good one. Also, his followers have on multiple occasions tried to argue that it proves he was legit, with the "logic" I presented to back that claim up. They argue that he'd never actually have started a religion after saying that if he wasn't telling the truth.
Egyptian mythology is far older then Judaism (like 2000 years) and they were way into resurrections. Why did you leave this out?
Because it's a different sort of resurrection
@@VicedRhino Mostly, but the also had the real thing.
@@VicedRhinois this like different kinds if immortality?
No no no, Egyptian resurrection was all about wrapping up and embalming the dead so as to best scare Abbot and Costello: BIG difference.
@@brianofphobos8862the real thing 😂😂
Christianity is a massively retconned spinoff of Judaism. And why do they refuse to recognize how massively problematic retconning is?
I tend to use stolen instead of borrowed or evolved from when Christians dressed head to toe in red and green insist "Jesus is the reason for the season". For some reason I feel the need to explain that my pagan self has just as much right to celebrate as they do.
Christianity is a pagan religion ironically
I like how many of those think Mary was giving birth in a barn, in Jerusalem, in December. 41° F (5° C) nighttime lows.
@@randolphphillips3104 That part is far more realistic than the supposed census itself.
Peter was (allegedly) killed because Nero needed a scapegoat anyway, so it’s not as though it was a “recant or die” kinda thing. That’s something later Romans did, at very sporadic and often localized occasions, if Christians wouldn’t pay their homage to the Imperial cult, or Churchy Europeans did to other Churchy Europeans for not being Churchy in the “right” way. Point is: you can’t exactly point to Peter and say, “why would he die for a lie?”. Answer: he didn’t, he died for being a conveniently located, high-profile leader of the church, and who cares what he does or doesn’t say to try and get out of it. It’s all about the optics, baby.
Exactly.
Regardless all the apostles were found guilty of engaging in a seditious conspiracy.
If you are an enemy of the state, guilty of Jihadist terrorism you don’t get pardoned because you publicly profess conversion to Christianity.
Like that’s nice. You’re still not going to be release from Guantanamo though….
And if dying for your faith meant the faith was true, Judaism would be a lot truer, since plenty of us died at the hands of the Inquisition for not converting. Converting to Sean's piece of crap religion in particular.
Also, the only evidence Peter was ever even in Rome comes from sources they didn't think were divinely inspired enough to count as scripture. So why do we believe he even was there to get killed then, let alone what he died for and what he might have said beforehand?
God creating Humans to only worship him is like UA-camrs buying thousands of subscriptions.
The folks who wrote the Gospels were touting the idea that the world would end Any Day Now, and if there were questions, the Big Guy would answer them.
And believers have been saying its Any Day Now for almost 2000 years…
@@jursamajIt literally is *any* day now … until the heat death of the universe. It’s a finite number of days, what more could you possibly want?
What, “human lifespan”? Not relaxant for *my* god, the 2000 years probably are 20 seconds … or 0.5 femtoseconds. It is hard for an all-knowing God to remember to convert to human-experience timeframes, especially when you live outside of time!
@@advorak8529my guy the original Christians literally thought the world would end in their lifetime, it's all over their writings.
"not all extinct species fit into the creationism timeframe"
I don't think all extant species fit either
pff there are living life forms that don't fit.
@@nagranoth_ That's what "extant" means.
My question is what's with Sean McDowell's tshirt? Starry Night with a bat signal? Talk about appropriating a new myth from other sources.
I don't know how to pronounce Gary Habermas' last name either... Could we just call him "Minimal Gary"?
It's almost like I've experienced this sequence in the past.
one thing Sean should have considered including in that point was a reference to Ecclesiastes ch 3.
"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" and so on.
Dea[sic] vue … the feeling you have seen these gods before?
@@advorak8529 Deja moo - the feeling you've seen this BS before.
Funny how Jesus is not called Immanuel. Prophecy failed.
Maybe Immanuel was his nom de plume.
@@MrGrumblierstage name for his burlesque show!
The fact that Sean has a Spider-Man laptop arguing for the existence of god, when people can use the same arguments for Spider-Man's comics being equal proof for Spider-Man as the bible being proof for god is simply laughable!
It's honestly insane to me how so many people think Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy about Jesus considering that verse directly gives us the name of the person it was prophesying about and his name was Emmanuel and not Jesus. Furthermore, it is very obviously meant to be literal, saying the child's mother will name him Emmanuel when he is born. You don't even need to look outside of this one verse to understand why it could not possibly be about Jesus.
The trick with evaluating prophecy is to only look at the parts that match, never at the parts that fail to match.
Also, only ever count prophecies that you can make look like they came true. Forget all the ones that failed. That way you can have a 100% prophecies came true claim.
Reinterpreting old verses to refer to new events is a tradition that goes back to the beginning of recorded Jewish history. Finding new meaning in old verses is a way of confirming that you are on the right spiritual path, given that new scripture is not being written.
It is not about saying "look, this verse predicted the future." Turns out that arguing with atheists is not actually what the bible is about.
You're saying that like it's not exactly what apologists do, including in the video you commented this on.
The author of Mathew memed very well!
26:24 this just feels like special pleading. I guarantee Sean would be changing up his tune if we were talking about Muhammed splitting the moon or the miracle of the sun. The people that believe in those things believe in a god, does that mean those miracles suddenly become more plausible?
Oh you made basically the same point as me lmao
Yay a 45 minute one! I like the longer videos.
Bodily resurrection is unique to Jesus? Wasn't Lazarus bodily resurrected? Not that Lazarus is from another religion, but the guy did say bodily resurrection is unique to Jesus, a thing contradicted by his own religion unless I'm mistaken.
Asclepius was a god that Zeus killed because he resurrected so many people, then Apollo convinced Zeus to raise him back. But at least we know Jesus isn't a dying and rising God like that...
I know Christopher Hitchens listed about 7 incidents of resurrection in both the old and new testaments.
Although this isn't discussed often (it doesn't come up much in preaching and has no apologetic value), the resurrection of Jesus is considered to be distinct from cases such as Lazarus. Lazarus was revived, not resurrected.
The distinction is that Jesus received his glorified body, and Lazarus and the others were simply returned to life in their ordinary mortal bodies. Refer to 1 Corinthians 15:35.
@fluffysheap ok, but honestly I feel that's a cop out. IF the dude in the video meant unique in that way, he needed to specify, because basically you're saying "Jesus was unique in his resurrection because the Bible says his resurrection was special". So an event becomes unique because the person describing the event makes up a qualifier to make it unique? Ok...
I asked the pastor where Lazarus was today, and was shocked that his resurrection was imperfect and he died again
On the topic of the Ishtar/Easter meme: I share that one every year, but I also make sure to point out (in groups where it's not already known) that it's basically an ancient history version of the "this is Goku, he's my favourite pokemon trainer" meme.
I bought one of your t shirts in 2028 and it still looks and feels great.
And it speaks wonders about your time machine 😉
@@joachimschoder I make a lot of typos. I meant 2018. I wore it at the Ark Encounter protest in 2019.
Just to be clear, resurrection, in the form of reincarnation, appears in the Aeneid (c. 19 BCE), and so was obviously floating around the Roman world by at least the 1st C. BCE.
We're talking about resurrecting the body.
If you steal Fiction to add to your own Fiction, it's still Fiction, right???
I'm pretty sure crudely inserting your personal Mary Sue protagonist, that saves all of humanity by making an epic sacrifice, into a pre-established setting is called Fan Fiction.
Donna Douglas just calls it fanfiction.
Rhino, when you said not only was the young man (in the "prophecy") not the messiah... I quoted in my head "He's not the messiah. He's a very naughty boy." Given some of the apocrypha (maybe Gospel of Thomas? I don't remember which specifically) having stories of Jesus' childhood where he was killing people and bringing them back just for funsies, I would say this is appropriate to say about him. Of course, the prophecy could be talking about the kid who was born one manger over from Jesus and describing Brian Cohen.
As a Guginite, I am proud to see the word of Gay Unicorn Gary being spread.
The followers of Lisa the rainbow giraffe will come down upon the false believers like the fury of a thousand leaves.
I gotta say, I LOVE the term Guginite! 😂😂😂
Apologists prove God doesn't exist. If God existed, he wouldn't need apologists
Or at least they would all have exactly the same understanding of God and the meaning of his holy book... Because god would have told them.
If God existed, he would be extremely embarassed about apologists.
Lorem ipsum. This comment was added for engagement algorithm purposes only. Lorem ipsum.
Me: calls god "why don't I ever see you?"
God: answers phone "new phone, who dis?"
Was Gary influenced by Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe?
Nope, I keep seeing these comments, but I have no idea where Lisa originated from.
@@VicedRhinoLisa The Rainbow Giraffe, Leaf Be Upon Her, always was, just ask any of the other supernatural gods …
@@VicedRhino The Skep Tick made her up, leaf be upon her.
@@VicedRhino The Word of Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe was brought to humanity by @TheSkepTick (leaf be upon them both)
For real though its actually pretty funny in a video where you bring up how Christianity and Judaism borrowed from other religions, Gary seems to take more than a few pages out of Lisa's book
Moorhen
Whoa! What video is this with Rhino, Suris, AND Forrest?!? That sounds like an awesome combo!
It is from his watering hole channel from a couple of weeks ago
Or it could be from the video labeled (an interview with Forrest Valki) from 3 months ago. It is a part of the live streams category.
@@tankedwarthog6424 when I saw Rhino and Suris, I suspected TWH, but I did a quick cursory scan of thumbnails and didn’t see Forrest. But now that you gave me dates, I’ll look more in depth, thanks!
@PsychoMuffinSDM np
I like to point out this factor, when the belief that all extinct life existed side by side comes up: Try multiplying our current life abundance by 100-1000 times. Gonna be a bit cramped, innit?
Whether early Christians explicitly stole ideas from other myths or not isn’t that important to me. The Jesus story sounds like fiction, and a quick glance at other mythologies shows that it’s the type of fiction that people tell about gods. So unless they have something more substantial to back it up, it’s most likely just another work of fiction.
Sorry Rhino but I've already started to follow Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe.
I don't think she'd mind Gary. If he were a god she'd already have eaten him by definition, so clearly he's not.
I’m a Pastafarian myself 😂
Loved this, thanks for uploading.
Money, items, and time given to a church are payments for a service. It should never be considered charity.
I disagree, as some churches use that money to do charity work like dinners to feed the poor and homeless, for instance. If they do charity type work for anyone who needs it, THAT wouldn't be a service. Have to keep in mind some churches actually do charity work, not all of them are run by greedy con artists.
@@TamaraDippel Guarantee the latter out weights the former.
I don’t know about gay unicorns, but keep doing the videos. Your patter is entertaining and funny, and mostly spot on. Love the work.
I see some Chicago whiskey back there! Few straight rye if I’m not mistaken. What a cool bar. My bar is literally just one of my cupboards. 😅
Sean’s not the worst of apologists; that honour surely goes to Frank Tourek. However, like all the others, he favours the miraculous above the mundane, the extraordinary over the ordinary & a fallacy ahead of a fact
Eh, I don't know if having a personal relationship with someone necessarily requires _meeting_ them, though it definitely requires some kind of direct communication. It's certainly possible to develop a "personal relationship" with a penpal (or more modern telecom based communication pal) for example, so long as the communication goes both ways 🤷
20:29 Sean is... more or less an old earth creationist with some head nods to intelligent design. Basically the first few billion years were God playing around with creation, and then He go serious creating humans as His chosen creation. I still think Sean's wrong, but at least he accepts a lot of the demonstrable reality around him and one can have a conversation with him.
“What if we added the compelling evidence that God exists?”
WTF even?!😝
Out of the mouths of apologists……just the silliest shit.
“Miracles are more believable if you believe these other miracles.”
@@cthellis I mean, that is sort of true in a way: If we had good reason to already accept miracles, other miracle claims would be more plausible. The problem is why we should have good reason to already accept miracles.
I never understood the “appropriation “ arguments.
All human cultures have been influenced by other human cultures.
There is no such thing as a “pure” culture.
The ancient Jews were smack dab k the middle of cultures that had various resurrection myths. Why is it so surprising that some nomads absorbed some ideas from those around them?
I absolutely adore you. In school we had debating exercise where you would get appointed a side no matter your preferences just to practice your debating skills. I would love to see you try to defend religion. It would be, I presume, a short but really interesting video. All te Nest.
Love that "Quick" whistle right after 23:35 👍
43:23 I definitely want to be taken seriously ESPECIALLY when I don't deserve it!
Personally, I prefer to describe Biblical myths as "derivative" rather than "stolen".
«The compelling evidence that god exist» !? What ? There is zero compelling evidence for the existence of ANY god.
I love thinking about how bad the evidence for Christianity is. Like it is just as bad as if in 1000 years, people tried claiming Harry potter was a true story. All of it was real. Literally every argument Christians use to defend their religion would work equally well to defend Harry potter.
Of course you mean our Lord and Savior Gandalf the White.
@Philbert-s2c I don't think Gandalf or lord of the rings works really. As it isn't based in our real world with actual events and places mentioned that are real. That's why I use Harry potter as my example here. It mentions real places and real events like ww2 that can be used to base arguments on making it real the same way the Bible thumper do.
@@zogar8526While the land has has evolved, LOTR and The Hobbit are explicitly set on this planet with Tolkien explaining that Hobbits are shy so we don't see them anymore and Middle-earth being the modern pronunciation of an Old English word for the land humans lived in. Just because "science" can't explain the changes accurately doesn't mean Eru didn't create Arda.
@@zogar8526Lord of the rings is nominally set in our world's past, and written basically as a British creation myth. Hobbits are heavily implied to have become leprechauns in the present day. The cosmology is even set up to be broadly compatible with Tolkien's Christianity. A religion could easily claim it to be real history.
All the atheist scholars thought King’s Cross station wasn’t real but we have archaeologically discovered the ruins of kings cross station so that means all the muggle Historians and scientists are wrong and stupid and too biased against our savior Harry Potter to be trusted, except when they agree with us.
Happy New Year!!! With Many """Vices""" !!!
The argument from lots of arguments is its own argument. And the best one they've got.
02:30 Also, there _is no evidence_ for the resurrection.
But but but there are thousands of tombs wheee there is no Jesus inside! There are thousands of proofs for his resurrection!
@@advorak8529 You joke, but strictly speaking every tomb that doesn't contain Jesus's body is, technically, evidence for his resurrection. It's so miniscule as to be completely irrelevant, but evidence contrary to a position is technically evidence for contrary positions. Of course, I did say positionS, plural. His body not being present in every tomb we check is also technically evidence that he was abducted by aliens and his body was taken to another planet. It's evidence in favor of every position that isn't "He was buried and his body stayed there."
Well... if you're going to believe in a whole book of made up things, I guess believing things you made up yourself isn't much different.
So... anybody drew a Rhino in the Can yet?
Scarcity enhances value, hence why water is valuable in deserts.
Does Gary know Lisa the rainbow giraffe?
Nice clips at the end.
Bodily resurrection… talk to the Egyptian mummies! They needed their bodies in their afterlife, they’d be resurrected then. All that’s needed now is resurrection before entering the afterlife, or escaping from the afterlife …
Did Sean just say Genesis is the "oldest religion ever"...? He's knowingly lying. Not even close. Not by a long shot. We have clear indications of tribally organized religion predating that johnny-come-lately story by tens of millennia.
His entire job is lying and he makes quite a bit of money lying to people who want to be told comforting lies.
I mean, as Hitchens pointed out, ppl used to come back from the dead all the time if we believe the Bible. What's so special about Jesus?
oh, he claimed he had a famous dad.
Were there dying and rising gods before Jesus? Definitely. The claim that earlier dying and rising god traditions did not influence Christianity is spurious.
Yeah, there are bodily resurrections in Greek mythology as well. Sure, it is achieved differently, but it is still the same thing. This is a rare instance where rhino is just flat out, and completely wrong. There is literally a 0% chance Christianity was the first to do a bodily resurrection, and a 0% chance it wasn't influenced by other bodily resurrection stories. Heck, Jesus isn't even the first bodily resurrection story about a person who was half God half man. Again, Greek mythology has like half a dozen demi gods this happens to. Probably more.
@zogar8526 great comment
@@zogar8526yes, this smells. almost like he (VR) has other underlying agendas.
@haydenwalton2766 I doubt that, he is capable of just being wrong. What agenda would he even have? He is an atheists and likes being as truthful as possible. He simply overlooked this. No one is perfect.
@@zogar8526
He didn't say christianity was the first, but judaism was the first. And even that only possibly. Given that judaism is about 800 years older than greek mythology, your example isn't disputing that possibility.
Regarding CAN: Does hurting apologists by debunking their arguments count? You do that with almost every video you make.
careful what you wish for. these people (CAN and their supporters) will have to live by the standards they set, at the very least.
@@haydenwalton2766 Personally I think CAN is a bad idea. It promotes censorship and stifles the exchange of ideas.
Does educating people on how scams work, actually hurt the person running the scams? And if so, does this outweigh the benefit of more people not falling for a scam?
@@carstekoch I agree with your point regarding scammers.
so why not just be an organisation that does that, rather than the Stasi stuff also ?
@@haydenwalton2766
And you also agree with the metaphor linking evangelists to scammers?
If so, that is what VR does.
Also, what about CAM is Stasi stuff?
It's a voluntary membership meant to highlight oversights and blind spots. Worst thing that can happen is they kick you out.
A religion with a resurrection older tahn christianity is Orphism, a mystery cult dating from the Vth century BCE, which is centered around Dyonisos, his death and his rebirth.
Rhino, I will be your friend, now you just need nine more :)
Sean is doing a pretty great job of showing how disposable Christian rhetoric is.
I'ma just quote the Wikipedia article on extinction here to point out how at odds Sean is with Christian history:
_"For much of history, the modern understanding of extinction as the end of a species was incompatible with the prevailing worldview. Prior to the 19th century, much of Western society adhered to the belief that the world was created by God and as such was complete and perfect. This concept reached its heyday in the 1700s with the peak popularity of a theological concept called the great chain of being, in which all life on earth, from the tiniest microorganism to God, is linked in a continuous chain. The extinction of a species was impossible under this model, as it would create gaps or missing links in the chain and destroy the natural order."_
But sure Sean, over five billion species have died since the Christian god created the world, and it causes no issues for Christianity. That's at least 833k species a year if you're a Young Earth Creationist. And they can't have all happened during Noah's Flood, because it's a _point of dogma_ that all the species that existed before the Flood survived to after the Flood, otherwise Noah wouldn't have successfully saved at least two of every kind of animal.
I don't know about the others, but I remember seeing that Forrest quote, and I am pretty sure he wasn't speaking about religion in general. I'll have to see if I can find it again.
Someone has been binging on Deconstruction zone
the thing about generosity being dependent on the recipients faith does apply to me. I was about to give someone money, but then he mentioned Jesus and I just could not do it any more, I felt manipulated in a way I could not accept. all previous arguments that were intended to be empathetic I could ignore as arguments that work on other people. I just wanted to give him money because he was asking for it and needed it but once he mentioned Jesus I could not do that
“Job is the oldest book of the bible” is an idea that modern biblical scholars almost universally reject.
39:46 "happiest" is a word
I know this is overly pedantic, but the patreon plug didn't make sense this time. The "my patreons, who are the..." part was about the hours spend on researching, while the "if you want to be..." part was about the claims being responded to instead.
Does CAN have a form I can fill out for minor nitpicks?
Jesus is the same as Robin Hood - a character who is put into a certain historical setting but never existed.
it will be the historical consensus eventually. when biblical historians finally get their shit together
@haydenwalton2766 and just like with Robin Hood, there will never be just one man living in the same time period or location to fit all the Biblical "facts", let alone the historical ones.
Robin Hood also donated a lot of money to the poor. That means his story must be true.
@joachimschoder or that the story became a morality play.
Nice add!
I being Atheist and believing 'each to his/her own.' Noted a trend in the seasons for the religious cult followers. In the 'tiss the season' quote I see them making a lot more begging for money than spending that money. Simple case in point. Local grocery stores makes up Thanksgiving and Christmas meal bags. They place them by the counter and ask if patrons would buy a meal for a low income family. I have bought several of each every year these last many celebrations. I actually heard a a woman exclaim 'Oh if they want a dinner, they should get a better job. Like Me.' She wore about her neck a shiny silver jesusism symbol. I bought tow that night.
I have a Trans family member that their Trans Friends buy food, thake my BBQ head to the closest Homeless camp area and prepare a hot meal for them once a month. I am still waiting for the cult clubs to do the same for the Homeless. They are real good doing their recruiting the youth things though.
We here where I am from tolerate the cults. But we do not interfere as they do US. One night as the (unofficial title) 'Trans Cooking Club' was setting up. One of the cult clubs saw what they people were doing and called the cops saying 'they were setting up for an unlicensed drag show.' Cops came and asked what was going on. They explained what they were doing, cops asked about the 'drag people' (what I heard the cop say) The response was ' Officer, we are dressed as we want people to see us. Doing good and Not recruiting anyone.' Cop offered his hand, the shook hands and the cop returned with several flats of water.
I have never seen the cult clubs do this. The kids (yes one is my kid) pay for this out of their own pockets.
Peace
The words that can be historically attributed to Jesus……
A noun and a verb
Even if we had HD video of Jeebus' magical mystery tour, the most likely explanation would be an ancient illusionist/ con-man. The entire absurd narrative is something you would expect from a Tobe Hooper movie, not a divine super-being.
I love the "psychological characteristics mentioned in the Bible that help people flourish" part. Current psychology makes heavy use of techniques used in Buddhism for a long time, probably (citation needed) long before Jesus was supposedly born. And Buddhism has the added bonus that these aren't just mentioned characteristics but taught techniques.
That means Buddhism true, then?
The funny thing is, even if the Buddha never existed and was just a character invented for Buddhist morality stories, Buddhism could still be true insofar as the teachings of Buddhism could still be true and useful practices. If Jesus never existed, Christianity is toast. So Buddhism could be "false" (in that its mythology is false) but remain useful (in that its practices have practical benefits), but if Christianity is "false," there's nothing useful left.
Lol, you're surprised that thats Forrests take? Have you met the man? Or just heard him speak?
Also, the man in white at the end of Mark, more likely than an Angel, is just continuing on the plot thread of the naked man Jesus runs into before the crucifixion
the problem with CAN is that the people who join it are incredibly unlikely to have complaints against them
Regarding Genesis, McDowell means that if Genesis is true, it comes from the beginning of time.
I have listened to some Sean McDowell interviews where it really felt like he was absorbing new information. But he just reverts back to his same talking points.
The level of dishonesty shown by Sean and others to attempt to justify their faith is incredible, it's really quite sad they are willing to throw away their integrity to poorly attempt to justify their BS
The people in charge of the books, had many hundreds of years to alter their propaganda with no oversight, so it is no surprise they would edit it to make it seem consistent. Most of that time, criticism or questioning would be violently crushed.