While I'm no advocate of Dave Hurwitz, I'm afraid I have to repeat it here: this UA-cam channel is, in my opinion, the best music review channel around. And why is that? Well, because it's done with talent, precision and passion, and above all a willingness to explain well-founded analyses. Even in his most trenchant analyses, I always find something to retain, even (and especially) when I don't share his vision. But here, it's all a question of argument: you may not always agree, but you have to be able to say why and explain it. So don't change your commitment: that's what makes this channel so worthwhile. It may not please everyone, but it proves every day that it's a resource for education, reflection and discovery.
As a music critic, I really enjoyed your style and facts. You are very systematic, and for my perspective like a surgeon. I used to work in classical music in disc shop as a student job, and with your video a rediscover many great works. 😊
As far as I'm concerned, a critic can say anything as long as he backs it up with what you call "musical facts." I might disagree with your spin on musical facts, but I normally don't dispute your reporting itself.
This person sounds like a troll with a dictionary. I find Dave's assessments very well argued and reasonable. Don't agree on everything but it would be very boring if we all did. Besides Dave always adds a touch of humour too, so it's silly to take any offense.
There are a few other review sites I have watched (briefly) on YT. Your site is better than all of those on every criteria More knowledgeable, more entertaining and most importantly the best to follow when choosing the best examples of a work. I also love your enthusiasm for many rare works, and especially modern recordings. One other site did not seem to have listened to anything recorded post 1970 and revelled in old recordings in murky sound.I also like that when you find a good recording of an artist you don't usually like you are big enough to praise it (e.g Rattle Mahler 9 Bavaria) or something disappointing from an artist you otherwise like ( Beethoven 9 Honeck). Thanks David for sharing your expertise. it's really helpful in making choices. I WILL definitely keep on listening!
Well, personally, I'll always be grateful to you for helping to guide me through Morton Feldman's music and giving me a really helpful way to approach it.
Speaking of Bruckner, I am looking forward to your review of the new Honeck Bruckner 7, which I had the opportunity to listen to just yesterday on the Naxos streaming service. I think it might prove a nice antidote to the Thielemann experience or even the uneven Poschner cycle, where he got the tempi just wrong.
I love to watch your videos because (1) it's a subject I know something about and love, and (2) because you're so entertaining and (often enough!) funny. I felt the same way about the critics I used to read back in the days of Stereo Review, High Fidelity, American Record Guide, etc. Rex Reed used to review pop stuff, and even though the music he was talking about might not especially interest me, he gave me a laugh or two (e.g., "It's time Judy Garland forgave MGM for making her a star."). Same with Paul Kresh, who wrote a very funny piece about a trip to Europe during which all he seemed to encounter in the classical realm was "Scheherazade". I don't care much for professional sports (except baseball), but if the play-by-play guy knows what he's doing, I can (if only temporarily) get caught up in it and enjoy it. I think you have a gift for introducing your viewers into a subject they might not otherwise pay attention to. You bring my attention to repertoire and recordings I wasn't aware of before, and you do it in a way that makes me want to broaden my knowledge. So thank you. And I WILL keep on listening.
On two different classical music forums, you have somehow occasioned utter, spluttering outrage from a handful. I wasn't sure why, but I think some of it was just envy: that you have a platform and they, with nothing but egos and a lively sense of self-importance, do not. The outrage would go supersonic every time you even mentioned Furtwängler or Bruckner. Just those two! I think people who derive meaning for their lives as devout members of one or other of those cults take it personally when you don't similarly adore their personal messiahs. You undermine something that makes them, them. Which inevitably they resent. It was both fascinating and tedious to observe just how unhinged you could make these individuals. I love and live for classical music more than most, I think, but I'd be a very sad bear if I lived my life with so little sense of self-worth that another man's _opinion_ could drive me that insanely angry!
Thanks for another thoughtful video. I love the gleeful and down-to-earth way you frame issues. Evaluating any art is tricky because, in the end, the judgment rests on a subjective response: Does this piece or performance move or inspire me? Quantifiable considerations, such as historical facts or details about a performance, can explain one's response up to a point or at least take the discussion to a place where opposing viewpoints can exist. I appreciate how you do just this in such an engaging way.
Thanks D....What I like about this post, besides the bleeding obvious, is that it shows you actually read the comments we make, which I think is somewhat of a rarity in UA-cam world
I think Dave's instinct and internal red flags from experience correctly suspect that that guy had an ulterior agenda, borne out by pretty much how most of the internet works. Thielemann has some pretty sussy fans, which has been well known for years. The thing that always strikes me about these ad hominen screed spewers is they never present any solid evidential examples of the "better things" they alude to. If you don't like something, or someone, then what or whom do you like, and why? They're not very good at that, are they?
Particularly silly was stating that Dave doesn't like musicians. Since Dave frequently praises them, this person clearly doesn't tune in to this channel very often.
@@leestamm3187 I saw on another classical music channel a comment complaining that Dave is elitist. Now, I think Dave's views and the way he presents them can leave much to be desired, but if that person had actually watched his channel, they'd see he's far more egalitarian than elitist, and in fact gleefully knocks down golden idols and lambastes snobbery. If you don't like someone or something, it's probably good to actually know why, instead of convincing yourself it's for a reason that's totally irrelevant or false.
Well, you are mostly entertaining, Sir. And i do appreciate introducing to our younger generation the older recordings and artists that we d probably miss in the ocean of modern recordings. I wonder what you think about th3 abundance of whole youtube concerts today. I fear it might be financially counter productive for th3 classical music industry.
Dave, you had me hooked years ago when you trashed Simon Rattle and Roger " the dodger " Norrington. That confirmed to me that you were a force to be taken seriously. Keep up the good work. Cheers Ian. Leicester, UK.
Do FoT's actually exist? Surely not! I'm pleased that you took this guy on. Vitriol might have displaced debate in our public life, but there's no place for it on this channel!
It’s human to disagree on things like I think you are a little too harsh on period instrument performances as I think a lot of them are really good however I will never go off on you like the comment you read. Your a smart critic and know a lot about classical music and I think what we are missing in todays world is respect. Respect for artists, critics and humans in general. There aren’t many “high brow” classical music channels out there so I love to watch your reviews on music whether I agree with your opinions or not.
For me, critics are very important. I love reviewers, and I read (or view) a lot of reviews of films, books, music, recordings, and so on. There are quite a few people who say "I don't need critics, I make up my own mind"... which is a groaner. Heck, yeah, I make up my own mind too! Everybody does. But make up your mind about what? There is NO f&/%ing way I can/want/will read every book, watch every movie, listen to every recording... and so I need reviewers to decide whether something is worth my attention. David Hurwitz is certainly among those critics. That does NOT mean I have to agree with the reviewers, just that they express their opinion in a way that I find useful to decide whether or not to give something a chance. Regardless of how they feel about it. I love your video reviews, and your explanations of what you like or don't like, and why you like or don't like something. So I certainly find them very useful. And I'm saying this as someone who enjoys Thielemann's Bruckner Cycle. So far. Because I haven't even listened to all of it. (I only listen to Bruckner once in a while.)
Sometimes Dave gets on my nerves with his opinions on serial/avant-garde/modern/etc. music (Boulez, Wuorinen, etc.) - calling it “bad” as if this is somehow obvious and irrefragable - but I have enjoyed watching his videos for the immense trove of knowledge regarding classical music and the recording industry from which he dispenses on the regular. I don’t really listen to a lot of music from before the 20th century nowadays, so I don’t really have any strong opinions on any of that music and certainly not about individual interpreters thereof. I do like to argue from time to time on the internet about such things, but I can always just smile about it because it’s about the nothing more important than, well, music. Listen to what you like.
Hello Folks! Dave has indeed a a funny way of expressing himself which is amusing and accurate like 99% of the time. His views tend to agree with mine most of the time which makes me quite happy, as he is a critic I admire and respect for his immense knowledge and musical culture! Moreover, more than once I have seen him praise a conductor he dislikes for a job well done, sometimes as going as far as to elect that particular recording as a reference one. And that to me is the mark of a true good critic, to really give credit where credit is due, regardless of personal views. And Dave, thank you for making me know and appreciate wonderful new music and fabulous conductors, old and new. I am a professional Opera singer but am absolutely passionate about symphonic/orchestral music and I thank you for widening my vistas. Keep up the great work and s……w the cranks! Best Wishes!
This is a fun and informative classical music channel. Dave is both knowledgeable AND entertaining. I mostly agree with his sentiments, observations, and opinions. But not always. But I always respect his opinion because it isn't based on nothing. It's based on a LOT of musical experience and listening. And, I usually learn something, no matter if I'm not in agreement. No reason to be bent out of shape by someone else's opinion. This is the danger of the internet, the plumbing of human psychology to elicit emotional responses, in one way or another. A.I. playing us like Bach played his organ. Pulling out all the stops. We've all got to learn how to deal with this manipulation, individual by individual. And I don't have any answers on how to do it.
Rather than repeat the eulogies below - with which I concur: thorough and knowledgeable analyses and openly expressed critique, where such applies - I would add one important (for me) aspect: there is a predictability and continuity in David's opinions, both regarding the objective aspects and the personal (subjective) takes on a performance. So, from one review to the other, there is a common denominator. In this respect, all of the presentations or reviews, are a reliable guide for each one of us, all we have to do is compare our preferences to David's and draw our own preliminary conclusions to what we would like... The stories and musicological analyses as an added bonus.
Hi Dave. Have you done, or would you consider doing, a "best of" comparison of recordings of Delius's Paris? I think it's a great piece, and there are a number of versions including an old one by Beecham, and others under Andrew Davis (2), Charles Groves, Charles Mackerras, Richard Hickox, and probably more.
Keep going Dave - you're channel and perceptions are always thought provoking and illuminating. I'm glad you show such a healthy and articulate response to being treated unfairly. (Must be unpleasant and I'm sorry to learn you're subject to such nonsense. Pfft!)
Very interesting! Thankyou for sharing, Dave. I love your channel, I’ve learned a lot about more underrated composers from it, such as Sorabji, Hosokowa, Dallapiccola, Gerhard, and others…BTW, talking of Christian Thielemann, I watched a performance he did on the Berlin philharmonic of Messiaen’s Poemes pour Mi, of all things, which was actually really good…I don’t think it’s available unless you have a sub to the Berlin Phil, but if you are able to, it’s well worth checking out! Surprisingly, he seems better at conducting modernist music than a lot of romantic stuff. I’d love to see you do a talk on why some composers/pieces still haven’t been recorded, and what we can do to change that. Especially Sorabji, he’s so underrated, and his orchestral works haven’t been recorded hardly, but I found a video of his second piano concerto and it’s amazing. Thanks again for all the great content!
Well for my part I sort of enjoy your sarcastic and nasty comments, they are fun. I usually agree with them, Thieleman's Bruckner, and most of his recordings, sucks (an that is just my opinion of course.) In the end, your reviews are a guidance on what recordings to listen, but not the ultimate word on them. And finally, your taste on something may be different than ours. For example, you consider the Tchaikovsky disc by Abbado and Berlin, the one with the 1812 overture, a CD from hell, and I remember every argument you used to trash the Romeo and Juliet overture on that disc are exactly the things why I love that particular recording of that overture. So, no point in trashing a critic, and I do love your channel and reviews in Classicstoday, that's why I am an Insider there.
I'll go even farther. I think it's almost shocking the Vienna Phil. went along with such a blatantly mediocre Bruckner cycle. If it had been one of the other orchestras within Vienna, I wouldn't be so uptight about it. But this is the orchestra that has put its name onto some of the strongest Bruckner recordings ever to reach a record store. They've made fantastic recordings of Bruckner 8, going clear back to Furtwaengler's 1944 one (I'm usually not a fan), and the fine early stereo one with Carl Schuricht on EMI. A knock-out live Bruckner 5, in mono, with Klemperer and the VPO was issued on Music & Arts. DG will be coming out with their own box of V.P.O. centered Bruckner recordings box set, borrowing - of course - from both Decca and Philips. Hopefully that'll at least redeem them somewhat from this bow-bow.
To critic someone without any argument is a rhetoric strategy very common especially in social media. You can also study it with some politicians..it is always about some kind of creating a fan club. It reflects the urge that my taste is the best. Your attitude is different which could be also a disadvantage when it comes to more extreme and new interpretations. As a collector and critic your always comparing and that's something you don't normally do, you stick to something you find wonderful. I think there is no way to resolve this different attitudes as many people take their taste very personally, feeding their own way and view through and of reality (best car, best music, best job,...). Your part in this is that your best of videos support in a way the notion that there is a rating of art. I think you are aware of these dynamics.
Personally, I don't have any doubt of what this is all about. Dave gives a perfect sense of what a recording can give and, moreover, he even attempts to move everyone to listen to many more of them. That's good enough for me. He didn't move me off my personal opinions though. I still eat herring, and for example with a reference recording I find the personal connection between composer and conductor as somewhat essential. But that's me
Maybe Thielemann sent the comment? Seriously, B.H. Haggin had no inhibitions about breaking the unwritten rule about critics not attacking other critic's writings , opinions or operations. But he always quoted them and zeroed in on them, refuting specifically what they said or did. But, like Dick Deadeye, it didn't make him a "popular character."
You're right; this was a cheap, personal attack. The "What do you know?" criticisms when we're explaining what we like or dislike are ridiculous because we're merely expressing an opinion, a personal preference. I don't always agree with you, but I still enjoy the videos.
Being a critic has its pitfalls. Being a Percussionist like David is I enjoy his reviews of the Classical music repertoire from a Percussionist s point of view. Keep up of good work David
I have little doubt that the bulk of your video watchers have the greatest of time for you, Dave, and for your videos. Because we are grateful, the first instinct is to defend you. I disagree with you sometimes, but more often I agree. And I have had my mind changed by you many times - thanks again! But, for sure, there are lines when commenting never to be crossed. Thank you for calling some of them out. (And for the largesse in acknowledging that if you dish it out, you should be able to take it.) Very many thanks!
It'd be very dull if critics limited themselves to politely saying "This album is disappointing, frustrating and stupid" all the time. I'm all for tarting up the adjectives and metaphors, and venting in as creative language as possible - provided it's both appropriate to the album and entertaining. After all, we wouldn't care if we didn't love the music! Sometimes a bilious review is the best publicity an album can get. I wouldn't be surprised if sales of Ken Doll's Sibelius cycle soared so high partially thanks to your scathing, fun review. It would have pressed many a compulsive contrarian's empathy buttons - "Oh, the poor young chap, being rubbished so early in his career" - causing a mad scramble to buy the set immediately! Meanwhile Mr Doll should be laughing all the way to the bank ...
I learn a lot from your reviews. Your knowledge is formidable and very impressive. I understand that you’re expressing your own views. It’s a free country. At least for now, anyway. Thanks for the work that goes into these.
In general, when I make a comment on YT or FB, I put it in my head that if the person to whom I make this comment was in front of me I would say it out loud directly. Unfortunately today, the fashion is that we hide under anonymity to say anything, knowing that the repercussions of what we write will not have consequences in the more or less long term. At least for the person who writes it. Trool, that's the word.
the best tool to destroy a critic is to not read him and ignore his thoughts and opinions. A very effective tool indeed to destroy critics. I always appreciate your opinion, even if I disagree with it in many cases. I think my own thoughts or go for a walk when I get really angry. It is my problem my ideas and opinions. The worst thing about your channel is your singing. A very horrible and annoying experience indeed. You'd get fired even from a dockside bar with that.
Talking about Bruckner, I'd be pleased to hear your thoughts on the newly released Honeck/Pittsburgh Bruckner 7. Are you planning on reviewing it anytime soon? Greetings from Argentina :D
Sounds like a law firm: Bile & Vituperation. Personally, I think you do a swell job most of the time. Sure, I disagree with you occasionally on minor things, at times. But, you're really doing a good job.
Insofar as rants in the comments are a sort of art... Well you truly triggered an "artist" on that one. :)) And he must have felt that you are condescending to "artists" including himself - he put it that way. One point the guy was right about, is you have the tendency to have fun at the expense of those unfortunately bad, or badly unfortunate, artists. But that makes this channel's output fun to listen to, and no less substantiated! Most importantly, I did not notice you having any trouble talking up a performer who is generally in your "doghouse" if they happen to have a good release. And on that, the critic of this critic missed the target completely.
I think some of Christian Thielemann’s supporters believe that we should all take his greatness as so self-evident that they need not explain what allegedly makes him so spectacular.
Critical judgments are based on facts, but they remain subjective. Your critical judgments are based on your long experience as a listener, a practicing musician, and an educated music writer. My critical judgments on a work might differ, but I respect what you bring to the table as a critic. Your commenter didn’t engage you in good faith on that Bruckner review, so you are entitled to boot him out if that’s your wish. No argument there.
There's a critic/commentator I really enjoy, namely Norman Lebrecht. But I could readily see someone searching the dictionary for adjectives to attack him. Could never justify such attacks on Dave. It would be like lobbing ping pong balls at a battleship..
When a critic says someone or some performance is 'self indulgent' an alarm bell goes off for me. Ie: 'Krystian Zimerman's playing is self-indulgent,' or 'Leonard Bernstein's version is self-indulgent.' It's usually a condemnation of someone relishing what they are doing.
I didn't realize you could actually ban someone from watching your channel. LOL. For what it's worth I find your negative critiques very entertaining as well as informative. The relish with which you annihilated Lang Lang's recent Saint-Saens recording was especially delightful. What good is a critic who never has anything negative to say? The only times I've really disagreed with you strongly is when you trash Beethoven's 3rd Symphony. But why would I take umbrage at that? Beethoven is long dead and I'm not earning any royalties off it. (Still, you want conductors to disregard the score as written and add notes for the trumpets because modern trumpets can play them? Ugh.) More importantly than that though, I've sought out many recordings you've praised, listened to them paying close attention to the elements of the recording or performance you found especially praiseworthy, and have much more often than not found myself saying, "Yeah, this is remarkably better than the ones I've settled on as my favorites". I guess I shouldn't be so surprised when your "overflow room" probably contains more recordings of a single composer than my entire collection.
Hi Dave.. Why not do a FAVORABLE review of THE PORTSMOUTH SINFONIA from back in the 1970s and see if you get any complaints???? Don't let this guy get to you!!!!!
Vasilios Lambropoulos sounds more like a Teodor Currentzis fan than a Thielemann acolyte. Hence his opprobrium. Wait till you hear from a Schoondewoerd or Bezuidenhout disciple.
Just keep offering your opinions, anchored in good general musical knowledge and performance experience. At least you have a hinterland that allows you to communicate educated views, rather than the 'say-no-evil' armchair critics with whom we're increasingly lumbered in these hyper-PC times.
might have been Thieleman himself :)). But as long as he managed to murder even the gorgeous tunes of the New Year's Concert I don't even want to know whatever else. And as I cannot see somebody being a gouppie of his I do believe it was the man himself.
I may, at times, have a few bones to pick, but I could never "trash" a critic...mostly because...i think you're smarter than I am. Yes, I have my views and opinions and I will express them. But...well...you are a well known critic for a very good reason.
While I'm no advocate of Dave Hurwitz, I'm afraid I have to repeat it here: this UA-cam channel is, in my opinion, the best music review channel around. And why is that? Well, because it's done with talent, precision and passion, and above all a willingness to explain well-founded analyses. Even in his most trenchant analyses, I always find something to retain, even (and especially) when I don't share his vision. But here, it's all a question of argument: you may not always agree, but you have to be able to say why and explain it. So don't change your commitment: that's what makes this channel so worthwhile. It may not please everyone, but it proves every day that it's a resource for education, reflection and discovery.
As a music critic, I really enjoyed your style and facts. You are very systematic, and for my perspective like a surgeon.
I used to work in classical music in disc shop as a student job, and with your video a rediscover many great works.
😊
As far as I'm concerned, a critic can say anything as long as he backs it up with what you call "musical facts." I might disagree with your spin on musical facts, but I normally don't dispute your reporting itself.
This person sounds like a troll with a dictionary. I find Dave's assessments very well argued and reasonable. Don't agree on everything but it would be very boring if we all did. Besides Dave always adds a touch of humour too, so it's silly to take any offense.
There are a few other review sites I have watched (briefly) on YT. Your site is better than all of those on every criteria More knowledgeable, more entertaining and most importantly the best to follow when choosing the best examples of a work. I also love your enthusiasm for many rare works, and especially modern recordings. One other site did not seem to have listened to anything recorded post 1970 and revelled in old recordings in murky sound.I also like that when you find a good recording of an artist you don't usually like you are big enough to praise it (e.g Rattle Mahler 9 Bavaria) or something disappointing from an artist you otherwise like ( Beethoven 9 Honeck). Thanks David for sharing your expertise. it's really helpful in making choices. I WILL definitely keep on listening!
Experience taught me that few things upset people more than disagreeing with their musical tastes or their sense of humor.
Well, personally, I'll always be grateful to you for helping to guide me through Morton Feldman's music and giving me a really helpful way to approach it.
That's no small thing! Feldman's music is a gift.
Speaking of Bruckner, I am looking forward to your review of the new Honeck Bruckner 7, which I had the opportunity to listen to just yesterday on the Naxos streaming service. I think it might prove a nice antidote to the Thielemann experience or even the uneven Poschner cycle, where he got the tempi just wrong.
I love to watch your videos because (1) it's a subject I know something about and love, and (2) because you're so entertaining and (often enough!) funny. I felt the same way about the critics I used to read back in the days of Stereo Review, High Fidelity, American Record Guide, etc. Rex Reed used to review pop stuff, and even though the music he was talking about might not especially interest me, he gave me a laugh or two (e.g., "It's time Judy Garland forgave MGM for making her a star."). Same with Paul Kresh, who wrote a very funny piece about a trip to Europe during which all he seemed to encounter in the classical realm was "Scheherazade". I don't care much for professional sports (except baseball), but if the play-by-play guy knows what he's doing, I can (if only temporarily) get caught up in it and enjoy it. I think you have a gift for introducing your viewers into a subject they might not otherwise pay attention to. You bring my attention to repertoire and recordings I wasn't aware of before, and you do it in a way that makes me want to broaden my knowledge. So thank you. And I WILL keep on listening.
Whatever you say about Dave, his musicological chops are undeniable.
Mediocre, but entertaining sure
That was probably Mrs. Thielemann! Nice chick!
On two different classical music forums, you have somehow occasioned utter, spluttering outrage from a handful. I wasn't sure why, but I think some of it was just envy: that you have a platform and they, with nothing but egos and a lively sense of self-importance, do not.
The outrage would go supersonic every time you even mentioned Furtwängler or Bruckner. Just those two! I think people who derive meaning for their lives as devout members of one or other of those cults take it personally when you don't similarly adore their personal messiahs. You undermine something that makes them, them. Which inevitably they resent.
It was both fascinating and tedious to observe just how unhinged you could make these individuals.
I love and live for classical music more than most, I think, but I'd be a very sad bear if I lived my life with so little sense of self-worth that another man's _opinion_ could drive me that insanely angry!
Thanks for another thoughtful video. I love the gleeful and down-to-earth way you frame issues. Evaluating any art is tricky because, in the end, the judgment rests on a subjective response: Does this piece or performance move or inspire me? Quantifiable considerations, such as historical facts or details about a performance, can explain one's response up to a point or at least take the discussion to a place where opposing viewpoints can exist. I appreciate how you do just this in such an engaging way.
Thanks D....What I like about this post, besides the bleeding obvious, is that it shows you actually read the comments we make, which I think is somewhat of a rarity in UA-cam world
Mr. Hurwitz, thank you for making all of this knowledge available for us. I know it's a labor of love but a labor nevertheless. Thank you.
I think Dave's instinct and internal red flags from experience correctly suspect that that guy had an ulterior agenda, borne out by pretty much how most of the internet works. Thielemann has some pretty sussy fans, which has been well known for years. The thing that always strikes me about these ad hominen screed spewers is they never present any solid evidential examples of the "better things" they alude to. If you don't like something, or someone, then what or whom do you like, and why? They're not very good at that, are they?
Particularly silly was stating that Dave doesn't like musicians. Since Dave frequently praises them, this person clearly doesn't tune in to this channel very often.
@@leestamm3187 I saw on another classical music channel a comment complaining that Dave is elitist. Now, I think Dave's views and the way he presents them can leave much to be desired, but if that person had actually watched his channel, they'd see he's far more egalitarian than elitist, and in fact gleefully knocks down golden idols and lambastes snobbery. If you don't like someone or something, it's probably good to actually know why, instead of convincing yourself it's for a reason that's totally irrelevant or false.
Sarcastic misanthropy is underrated.
Well, you are mostly entertaining, Sir. And i do appreciate introducing to our younger generation the older recordings and artists that we d probably miss in the ocean of modern recordings. I wonder what you think about th3 abundance of whole youtube concerts today. I fear it might be financially counter productive for th3 classical music industry.
They'll adapt.
Dave, you had me hooked years ago when you trashed Simon Rattle and Roger " the dodger " Norrington. That confirmed to me that you were a force to be taken seriously. Keep up the good work. Cheers Ian. Leicester, UK.
I don't understand nastiness in comments. Dave is so positive and excited about his work. I find it refreshing. People suck.
You are probably a "misanthropist" too?! :))
Do FoT's actually exist? Surely not! I'm pleased that you took this guy on. Vitriol might have displaced debate in our public life, but there's no place for it on this channel!
It’s human to disagree on things like I think you are a little too harsh on period instrument performances as I think a lot of them are really good however I will never go off on you like the comment you read. Your a smart critic and know a lot about classical music and I think what we are missing in todays world is respect. Respect for artists, critics and humans in general. There aren’t many “high brow” classical music channels out there so I love to watch your reviews on music whether I agree with your opinions or not.
For me, critics are very important. I love reviewers, and I read (or view) a lot of reviews of films, books, music, recordings, and so on. There are quite a few people who say "I don't need critics, I make up my own mind"... which is a groaner. Heck, yeah, I make up my own mind too! Everybody does. But make up your mind about what?
There is NO f&/%ing way I can/want/will read every book, watch every movie, listen to every recording... and so I need reviewers to decide whether something is worth my attention. David Hurwitz is certainly among those critics. That does NOT mean I have to agree with the reviewers, just that they express their opinion in a way that I find useful to decide whether or not to give something a chance. Regardless of how they feel about it.
I love your video reviews, and your explanations of what you like or don't like, and why you like or don't like something. So I certainly find them very useful.
And I'm saying this as someone who enjoys Thielemann's Bruckner Cycle. So far. Because I haven't even listened to all of it. (I only listen to Bruckner once in a while.)
Sometimes Dave gets on my nerves with his opinions on serial/avant-garde/modern/etc. music (Boulez, Wuorinen, etc.) - calling it “bad” as if this is somehow obvious and irrefragable - but I have enjoyed watching his videos for the immense trove of knowledge regarding classical music and the recording industry from which he dispenses on the regular. I don’t really listen to a lot of music from before the 20th century nowadays, so I don’t really have any strong opinions on any of that music and certainly not about individual interpreters thereof. I do like to argue from time to time on the internet about such things, but I can always just smile about it because it’s about the nothing more important than, well, music. Listen to what you like.
That's what it's all about. "Keep on listening".
Hello Folks! Dave has indeed a a funny way of expressing himself which is amusing and accurate like 99% of the time. His views tend to agree with mine most of the time which makes me quite happy, as he is a critic I admire and respect for his immense knowledge and musical culture! Moreover, more than once I have seen him praise a conductor he dislikes for a job well done, sometimes as going as far as to elect that particular recording as a reference one. And that to me is the mark of a true good critic, to really give credit where credit is due, regardless of personal views. And Dave, thank you for making me know and appreciate wonderful new music and fabulous conductors, old and new. I am a professional Opera singer but am absolutely passionate about symphonic/orchestral music and I thank you for widening my vistas. Keep up the great work and s……w the cranks! Best Wishes!
This is a fun and informative classical music channel. Dave is both knowledgeable AND entertaining. I mostly agree with his sentiments, observations, and opinions. But not always. But I always respect his opinion because it isn't based on nothing. It's based on a LOT of musical experience and listening. And, I usually learn something, no matter if I'm not in agreement. No reason to be bent out of shape by someone else's opinion. This is the danger of the internet, the plumbing of human psychology to elicit emotional responses, in one way or another. A.I. playing us like Bach played his organ. Pulling out all the stops. We've all got to learn how to deal with this manipulation, individual by individual. And I don't have any answers on how to do it.
Rather than repeat the eulogies below - with which I concur: thorough and knowledgeable analyses and openly expressed critique, where such applies - I would add one important (for me) aspect:
there is a predictability and continuity in David's opinions, both regarding the objective aspects and the personal (subjective) takes on a performance. So, from one review to the other, there is a common denominator. In this respect, all of the presentations or reviews, are a reliable guide for each one of us, all we have to do is compare our preferences to David's and draw our own preliminary conclusions to what we would like...
The stories and musicological analyses as an added bonus.
Hi Dave. Have you done, or would you consider doing, a "best of" comparison of recordings of Delius's Paris? I think it's a great piece, and there are a number of versions including an old one by Beecham, and others under Andrew Davis (2), Charles Groves, Charles Mackerras, Richard Hickox, and probably more.
I agree it's a great piece, and there are no poor recordings that I've heard.
Keep going Dave - you're channel and perceptions are always thought provoking and illuminating. I'm glad you show such a healthy and articulate response to being treated unfairly. (Must be unpleasant and I'm sorry to learn you're subject to such nonsense. Pfft!)
Anyone trying to push Dave into a state of high dudgeon is on a fool's errand!
Very interesting! Thankyou for sharing, Dave. I love your channel, I’ve learned a lot about more underrated composers from it, such as Sorabji, Hosokowa, Dallapiccola, Gerhard, and others…BTW, talking of Christian Thielemann, I watched a performance he did on the Berlin philharmonic of Messiaen’s Poemes pour Mi, of all things, which was actually really good…I don’t think it’s available unless you have a sub to the Berlin Phil, but if you are able to, it’s well worth checking out! Surprisingly, he seems better at conducting modernist music than a lot of romantic stuff.
I’d love to see you do a talk on why some composers/pieces still haven’t been recorded, and what we can do to change that. Especially Sorabji, he’s so underrated, and his orchestral works haven’t been recorded hardly, but I found a video of his second piano concerto and it’s amazing. Thanks again for all the great content!
Well for my part I sort of enjoy your sarcastic and nasty comments, they are fun. I usually agree with them, Thieleman's Bruckner, and most of his recordings, sucks (an that is just my opinion of course.) In the end, your reviews are a guidance on what recordings to listen, but not the ultimate word on them. And finally, your taste on something may be different than ours. For example, you consider the Tchaikovsky disc by Abbado and Berlin, the one with the 1812 overture, a CD from hell, and I remember every argument you used to trash the Romeo and Juliet overture on that disc are exactly the things why I love that particular recording of that overture. So, no point in trashing a critic, and I do love your channel and reviews in Classicstoday, that's why I am an Insider there.
Thank you.
I'll go even farther. I think it's almost shocking the Vienna Phil. went along with such a blatantly mediocre Bruckner cycle. If it had been one of the other orchestras within Vienna, I wouldn't be so uptight about it. But this is the orchestra that has put its name onto some of the strongest Bruckner recordings ever to reach a record store. They've made fantastic recordings of Bruckner 8, going clear back to Furtwaengler's 1944 one (I'm usually not a fan), and the fine early stereo one with Carl Schuricht on EMI. A knock-out live Bruckner 5, in mono, with Klemperer and the VPO was issued on Music & Arts. DG will be coming out with their own box of V.P.O. centered Bruckner recordings box set, borrowing - of course - from both Decca and Philips. Hopefully that'll at least redeem them somewhat from this bow-bow.
Marvelous response. If you are ever looking for a side hustle, consider legal arbitration!
The Brucknerites support you, love the Frau Blucher fanfare.
In my opinion you're the best at what you do, another thumbs up.
To critic someone without any argument is a rhetoric strategy very common especially in social media. You can also study it with some politicians..it is always about some kind of creating a fan club. It reflects the urge that my taste is the best. Your attitude is different which could be also a disadvantage when it comes to more extreme and new interpretations. As a collector and critic your always comparing and that's something you don't normally do, you stick to something you find wonderful. I think there is no way to resolve this different attitudes as many people take their taste very personally, feeding their own way and view through and of reality (best car, best music, best job,...). Your part in this is that your best of videos support in a way the notion that there is a rating of art. I think you are aware of these dynamics.
Personally, I don't have any doubt of what this is all about. Dave gives a perfect sense of what a recording can give and, moreover, he even attempts to move everyone to listen to many more of them. That's good enough for me. He didn't move me off my personal opinions though. I still eat herring, and for example with a reference recording I find the personal connection between composer and conductor as somewhat essential. But that's me
Maybe Thielemann sent the comment?
Seriously, B.H. Haggin had no inhibitions about breaking the unwritten rule about critics not attacking other critic's writings , opinions or operations. But he always quoted them and zeroed in on them, refuting specifically what they said or did. But, like Dick Deadeye, it didn't make him a "popular character."
You're right; this was a cheap, personal attack. The "What do you know?" criticisms when we're explaining what we like or dislike are ridiculous because we're merely expressing an opinion, a personal preference. I don't always agree with you, but I still enjoy the videos.
Being a critic has its pitfalls. Being a Percussionist like David is I enjoy his reviews of the Classical music repertoire from a Percussionist s point of view. Keep up of good work David
I have little doubt that the bulk of your video watchers have the greatest of time for you, Dave, and for your videos. Because we are grateful, the first instinct is to defend you. I disagree with you sometimes, but more often I agree. And I have had my mind changed by you many times - thanks again! But, for sure, there are lines when commenting never to be crossed. Thank you for calling some of them out. (And for the largesse in acknowledging that if you dish it out, you should be able to take it.) Very many thanks!
It'd be very dull if critics limited themselves to politely saying "This album is disappointing, frustrating and stupid" all the time. I'm all for tarting up the adjectives and metaphors, and venting in as creative language as possible - provided it's both appropriate to the album and entertaining. After all, we wouldn't care if we didn't love the music! Sometimes a bilious review is the best publicity an album can get. I wouldn't be surprised if sales of Ken Doll's Sibelius cycle soared so high partially thanks to your scathing, fun review. It would have pressed many a compulsive contrarian's empathy buttons - "Oh, the poor young chap, being rubbished so early in his career" - causing a mad scramble to buy the set immediately! Meanwhile Mr Doll should be laughing all the way to the bank ...
Interesting how basically all of his comments are based on his attempt at mind-reading & guessing at your motivations.
I learn a lot from your reviews. Your knowledge is formidable and very impressive. I understand that you’re expressing your own views.
It’s a free country. At least for now, anyway.
Thanks for the work that goes into these.
In general, when I make a comment on YT or FB, I put it in my head that if the person to whom I make this comment was in front of me I would say it out loud directly. Unfortunately today, the fashion is that we hide under anonymity to say anything, knowing that the repercussions of what we write will not have consequences in the more or less long term. At least for the person who writes it. Trool, that's the word.
the best tool to destroy a critic is to not read him and ignore his thoughts and opinions. A very effective tool indeed to destroy critics. I always appreciate your opinion, even if I disagree with it in many cases. I think my own thoughts or go for a walk when I get really angry. It is my problem my ideas and opinions. The worst thing about your channel is your singing. A very horrible and annoying experience indeed. You'd get fired even from a dockside bar with that.
Talking about Bruckner, I'd be pleased to hear your thoughts on the newly released Honeck/Pittsburgh Bruckner 7. Are you planning on reviewing it anytime soon? Greetings from Argentina :D
Sure. Coming soon.
Sounds like a law firm: Bile & Vituperation. Personally, I think you do a swell job most of the time. Sure, I disagree with you occasionally on minor things, at times. But, you're really doing a good job.
Insofar as rants in the comments are a sort of art... Well you truly triggered an "artist" on that one. :)) And he must have felt that you are condescending to "artists" including himself - he put it that way.
One point the guy was right about, is you have the tendency to have fun at the expense of those unfortunately bad, or badly unfortunate, artists. But that makes this channel's output fun to listen to, and no less substantiated! Most importantly, I did not notice you having any trouble talking up a performer who is generally in your "doghouse" if they happen to have a good release. And on that, the critic of this critic missed the target completely.
I actually root harder for the ones I dislike. No one looks forward to a poor performance! Or at least I hope not...
I continue to learn from your videos and agree that criticism should be considered and constructive - so keep up the good work!
I think some of Christian Thielemann’s supporters believe that we should all take his greatness as so self-evident that they need not explain what allegedly makes him so spectacular.
Critical judgments are based on facts, but they remain subjective. Your critical judgments are based on your long experience as a listener, a practicing musician, and an educated music writer. My critical judgments on a work might differ, but I respect what you bring to the table as a critic. Your commenter didn’t engage you in good faith on that Bruckner review, so you are entitled to boot him out if that’s your wish. No argument there.
There's a critic/commentator I really enjoy, namely Norman Lebrecht. But I could readily see someone searching the dictionary for adjectives to attack him. Could never justify such attacks on Dave. It would be like lobbing ping pong balls at a battleship..
I have another theory: this character's a friend of Norman Lebrecht.
Dude sounded like he's in the middle of his fifth divorce.
And you can see why they all left him!
When a critic says someone or some performance is 'self indulgent' an alarm bell goes off for me. Ie: 'Krystian Zimerman's playing is self-indulgent,' or 'Leonard Bernstein's version is self-indulgent.' It's usually a condemnation of someone relishing what they are doing.
At times, that criticism implies, "How dare they do things their way instead of the way I would--if I had enough talent to actually be a conductor?"
I didn't realize you could actually ban someone from watching your channel. LOL. For what it's worth I find your negative critiques very entertaining as well as informative. The relish with which you annihilated Lang Lang's recent Saint-Saens recording was especially delightful. What good is a critic who never has anything negative to say? The only times I've really disagreed with you strongly is when you trash Beethoven's 3rd Symphony. But why would I take umbrage at that? Beethoven is long dead and I'm not earning any royalties off it. (Still, you want conductors to disregard the score as written and add notes for the trumpets because modern trumpets can play them? Ugh.)
More importantly than that though, I've sought out many recordings you've praised, listened to them paying close attention to the elements of the recording or performance you found especially praiseworthy, and have much more often than not found myself saying, "Yeah, this is remarkably better than the ones I've settled on as my favorites". I guess I shouldn't be so surprised when your "overflow room" probably contains more recordings of a single composer than my entire collection.
I've never "trashed" Beethoven's Third Symphony.
FOT 😂. How many of these are there? FOA FOB FOC… If there are 26 of these, who would represent each third letter?
Hi Dave.. Why not do a FAVORABLE review of THE PORTSMOUTH SINFONIA from back in the 1970s and see if you get any complaints???? Don't let this guy get to you!!!!!
Vasilios Lambropoulos sounds more like a Teodor Currentzis fan than a Thielemann acolyte.
Hence his opprobrium. Wait till you hear from a Schoondewoerd or Bezuidenhout disciple.
Just keep offering your opinions, anchored in good general musical knowledge and performance experience. At least you have a hinterland that allows you to communicate educated views, rather than the 'say-no-evil' armchair critics with whom we're increasingly lumbered in these hyper-PC times.
I wonder if you have ever been attacked by the artist you reviewed unfavourably?
Yes.
might have been Thieleman himself :)). But as long as he managed to murder even the gorgeous tunes of the New Year's Concert I don't even want to know whatever else. And as I cannot see somebody being a gouppie of his I do believe it was the man himself.
Though I’ve not heard any live performances by Thielemann , regarding his recordings I find him uninspiring overall.
He's not a bad opera conductor. I saw him do a terrific Frau ohne Schatten at the MET.
I may, at times, have a few bones to pick, but I could never "trash" a critic...mostly because...i think you're smarter than I am.
Yes, I have my views and opinions and I will express them. But...well...you are a well known critic for a very good reason.