Interesting as ever. I wonder if European manufacturers will also consider the implications of the Tesla robot in factories to further cut costs and increase productivity.
Good point. The emergence of electric vehicles has certainly made all manufacturers examine their tried and tested processes in the light of what Tesla and the Chinese are doing. We know that making an EV involves orders of magnitude fewer component parts, then you have technologies such as giga casting and structural battery packs before you start thinking about robots. One certainty is that there will not be so many people working in the car industry 10 years from now.
I think there may be more to it than just protectionism of the existing European automarket. It is also about setting guidelines for the CCP in how to deal more fairly with trade partners globally and the Chinese people themselves. So less undercutting of external markets and acting with more respect for their own people and the environment. The Chinese people have been paying the price for those practices for decades now. Wouldn't they like to be able to afford all the stuff they are producing so cheaply for the rest of the planet? As a footnote I would like to state that I believe that hybrides are the way to go for the intermediate decades. We must not forget that our (electrical) infrastructure is not fully prepaired yet for EV's. And there are hydrogen powered electric vehicles with their own set of specific problems..
The legacy car makers have relied on their brand to carry them through the transition to EVs, but it hasn't worked out for them so far. Branding does sell cars but only to a point, consumers are more savvy and price aware these days. Perhaps the tariffs are partly designed to slow down the change over to buy time for the home grown car makers to develop / catch up. I sympathise with those who work for the legacy manufacturers but not the companies... getting a bit sick of hearing about ICE engines / hybrids being "the answer", they're obviously not. If they don't change tack soon they will definitely be left behind. They already have a mountain to climb.
You may well be right on this. Established manufacturers have probably been begging the politicians to buy them some time. Remember the GM/Toyota joint venture at Fremont, California in the 1980s'/90's? This was so that GM could learn to build small, fuel efficient cars from the Japanese and ironically became the building acquired by Tesla to build their first cars. We've seen it all before!
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Good point Monsieur Niro-Diaries. I suspect there is some heavy duty lobbying going on with politicians behind closed doors. Not only from car makers but from the oil and gas sector.
Thanks for a well thought out and clearly expressed piece. To me the tariff just shows how devoid of ideas the European industry have become. I feel they have been wedded to the idea that the EVs would just go away if the right FUD was spread about and then consumers could be throw the line that hybrids are the answer to keep their current business model intact. Those of us that have bought and used an EV for a few years have found they’re just fine, the FUD is nonsense for the most part and they are better and far cheaper to own. The European manufacturers will have to compete, they’ll have to merge or have agreements with Chinese manufacturers, as Volvo and lotus have already done. It’ll be interesting to see if the tariffs apply to Volvo and lotus, as their parent company , Geely, is being affected through Polestar and there is still a potential subsidy question there as there is with a few “Europeans” that are about to launch Chinese built models in their home markets. VW and BMW?
Thanks for reminding me on this.... I failed to mention that VW, BMW, Mercedes, Groupe Renault and Stellantis all have production facilities in China, exporting the cars back to Europe. They are not thrilled by these tariffs. It is kind of ironic that in the 1990s and early 2000's China encouraged inward investment from US and European car companies on the basis that they would learn how to make cars. In the world of EVs the student has become the teacher.
How deep is the Chinese state pockets and will they just still price MG cars below EU manufacturers I believe their in it for the long hual and the old world ( rhe west) will have to adapt or wither on the vine. P.S. long live the Kia eniro 💪 stil the best.
Same in every country. But wages, income tax, construction, maintenance, support companies, VAT, corporate tax and alot more remain in Europe/ UK. Plus Japan buys alot from Europe/ UK for their domestic economy. If China did the same then it would be a runner but they dont want to. Trade is a 2 way street and no country is going to sacrafice their economy without an upside.
@@rivergladesgardenrailroad8834 nope, I just bought my wife an E Niro because it will work for her driving habits. It was second hand from a dealer in 3 years time it will be almost worthless. But you need to be naive and completely oblivious to the massive infrastructure requirements to support EVs. Do you have any understanding of electricity
@@rustyc6805 I'm sure he does have a better understanding of electricity than you do. You don't seem to realise that despite their being over a million EVs on UK roads now electricity demand has not risen. I suggest you Google 'Six myths busted about EVs'...it will take you to the website of the UK national grid, they know more about the subject than either of us. As for your wife's Kia e-Niro, it's value will hold up better than any ICE or hybrid equivalent. I can tell you this from personal experience as I track used values of my now 5 year old car against the hybrid version. Also, you will find that her car will outlast yours (assuming you have an ICE)..as we know already there are e-Niro's with over 150,000 miles on the clock and
I totally agree with your view. A good point was made on a recent podcast of the Fully Charged Show which had an opinion that far from fighting the Chinese we should invite them into our market and set up production in Europe. They pointed out that there is a huge redundant car factory in Swindon (Honda’s plant) which could be deployed to BYD for example and thereby also create uk jobs. Maybe a bit controversial but I think they have a point
Interesting as ever. I wonder if European manufacturers will also consider the implications of the Tesla robot in factories to further cut costs and increase productivity.
Good point. The emergence of electric vehicles has certainly made all manufacturers examine their tried and tested processes in the light of what Tesla and the Chinese are doing. We know that making an EV involves orders of magnitude fewer component parts, then you have technologies such as giga casting and structural battery packs before you start thinking about robots. One certainty is that there will not be so many people working in the car industry 10 years from now.
you can get a robot to build a car but will a robot buy one
I think there may be more to it than just protectionism of the existing European automarket. It is also about setting guidelines for the CCP in how to deal more fairly with trade partners globally and the Chinese people themselves. So less undercutting of external markets and acting with more respect for their own people and the environment. The Chinese people have been paying the price for those practices for decades now. Wouldn't they like to be able to afford all the stuff they are producing so cheaply for the rest of the planet?
As a footnote I would like to state that I believe that hybrides are the way to go for the intermediate decades.
We must not forget that our (electrical) infrastructure is not fully prepaired yet for EV's. And there are hydrogen powered electric vehicles with their own set of specific problems..
Very interesting.
You are questioning whether people in a country that annually sells 30 million passenger cars can afford cars.
The legacy car makers have relied on their brand to carry them through the transition to EVs, but it hasn't worked out for them so far. Branding does sell cars but only to a point, consumers are more savvy and price aware these days. Perhaps the tariffs are partly designed to slow down the change over to buy time for the home grown car makers to develop / catch up. I sympathise with those who work for the legacy manufacturers but not the companies... getting a bit sick of hearing about ICE engines / hybrids being "the answer", they're obviously not. If they don't change tack soon they will definitely be left behind. They already have a mountain to climb.
You may well be right on this. Established manufacturers have probably been begging the politicians to buy them some time. Remember the GM/Toyota joint venture at Fremont, California in the 1980s'/90's? This was so that GM could learn to build small, fuel efficient cars from the Japanese and ironically became the building acquired by Tesla to build their first cars. We've seen it all before!
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Good point Monsieur Niro-Diaries. I suspect there is some heavy duty lobbying going on with politicians behind closed doors. Not only from car makers but from the oil and gas sector.
Thanks for a well thought out and clearly expressed piece. To me the tariff just shows how devoid of ideas the European industry have become. I feel they have been wedded to the idea that the EVs would just go away if the right FUD was spread about and then consumers could be throw the line that hybrids are the answer to keep their current business model intact.
Those of us that have bought and used an EV for a few years have found they’re just fine, the FUD is nonsense for the most part and they are better and far cheaper to own.
The European manufacturers will have to compete, they’ll have to merge or have agreements with Chinese manufacturers, as Volvo and lotus have already done. It’ll be interesting to see if the tariffs apply to Volvo and lotus, as their parent company , Geely, is being affected through Polestar and there is still a potential subsidy question there as there is with a few “Europeans” that are about to launch Chinese built models in their home markets. VW and BMW?
Thanks for reminding me on this.... I failed to mention that VW, BMW, Mercedes, Groupe Renault and Stellantis all have production facilities in China, exporting the cars back to Europe. They are not thrilled by these tariffs. It is kind of ironic that in the 1990s and early 2000's China encouraged inward investment from US and European car companies on the basis that they would learn how to make cars. In the world of EVs the student has become the teacher.
How deep is the Chinese state pockets and will they just still price MG cars below EU manufacturers I believe their in it for the long hual and the old world ( rhe west) will have to adapt or wither on the vine.
P.S. long live the Kia eniro 💪 stil the best.
Simplistic view. For example, the Japanese factories may be in Europe/ UK, however the profits flow back to Japan.
Same in every country. But wages, income tax, construction, maintenance, support companies, VAT, corporate tax and alot more remain in Europe/ UK. Plus Japan buys alot from Europe/ UK for their domestic economy. If China did the same then it would be a runner but they dont want to. Trade is a 2 way street and no country is going to sacrafice their economy without an upside.
Another nail for the EV market
not really, just annoying that European manufacturers need help. EV's are and will happen...
@@rivergladesgardenrailroad8834 nope, I just bought my wife an E Niro because it will work for her driving habits. It was second hand from a dealer in 3 years time it will be almost worthless.
But you need to be naive and completely oblivious to the massive infrastructure requirements to support EVs. Do you have any understanding of electricity
@@rustyc6805 I'm sure he does have a better understanding of electricity than you do. You don't seem to realise that despite their being over a million EVs on UK roads now electricity demand has not risen. I suggest you Google 'Six myths busted about EVs'...it will take you to the website of the UK national grid, they know more about the subject than either of us. As for your wife's Kia e-Niro, it's value will hold up better than any ICE or hybrid equivalent. I can tell you this from personal experience as I track used values of my now 5 year old car against the hybrid version. Also, you will find that her car will outlast yours (assuming you have an ICE)..as we know already there are e-Niro's with over 150,000 miles on the clock and
You lot are insane. You don't get anything for free in the world of physics and, real life. FML
I totally agree with your view. A good point was made on a recent podcast of the Fully Charged Show which had an opinion that far from fighting the Chinese we should invite them into our market and set up production in Europe. They pointed out that there is a huge redundant car factory in Swindon (Honda’s plant) which could be deployed to BYD for example and thereby also create uk jobs. Maybe a bit controversial but I think they have a point