Diy Vanadium Redox flow battery - PART 5
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Diy Vanadium Redox flow battery - PART 5
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#battery #diy #vanadium #redox #flowbattery #3dprinting #energystorage #vanadiumflowbattery
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Excellent demonstration of this neat battery technology. Cudos for a demo construct that is, in itself, a bit of a work of art!
Thank You sir
Your little vanadium battery is a work of art. Would be a good science class or trade show demonstration to be sure. Well done 👏 ❤
Hey! Thank you so much
Of all the different chemistries you have experimented with, which one do you think is the most efficient at storing energy (through a full charge/discharge cycle) like vanadium vs iron vs other ions.
Have you tried all organic electrolytes yet?
Great video! Where can I find some of this conductive plastic (PE?) material?
Great stuff, I've always dreamed about it, and you did it for me. Unfortunately, the prices of nafion and vanadium salts are too high. Keep doing that.
Thank you! Yes I know what you mean,... the prices for the materials can be insane.
SAINTHOOD NOMINATION!!! Hear me out. Over five years ago, I said ‘if some technical person can translate the technical paper and show the world how to build a reflow or redux or “salt water” battery; that person would solve the last puzzle for democratizing energy’
You just walked down from Mt Sinai and presented FIRE to humans (I mixed my metaphor).
PV panels are “cheap”. People can DIY turbines from old car alternators or old washing machines. Now, humanity has a better chance of surviving another 100y with cheap, diy energy storage
for anyone in Australia I have a few rolls of membranes 80cm wide in 102/50um $400AUD /m and 103/75um $550AUD /m , can use escrow services etc will only sell as 80cm widths, thanks for the encouragement of getting my battery project underway it worked out pretty good , the test systems 8000L doing 200A (I oversized a bit for my 100A target expecting to not get LAB condition performance ) and it worked now I just have to get the 2x 20,000L tanks brought in whip up a few more electrodes to handle the 100+* 250w solar panels aimed at it and I am done (I had completely focused on needing 5kw peak power draw completely forgotten I had 25kw of power going into them ... )
This is nice! Maybe, will need them. So, you have the battery now? You are damn fast, 10 days ago you ask me for the group buy for the membranes and now 8000l system. Cool!
@@cayrex I already had these coming since before x-mas :P Redox flow batteries have been on my mind since 2013 I only just recently came across your channel while seeing what break through's are out their plus you had the mixture rates I was looking for , I hate lithium I'll pull apart tesla packs and resell the cells but I will not use them (apart from e-bike ) I pretty much have a cloned Aquion battery bank here I made as well and almost got around to buying an original dirt cheap when covid hit shame someone beat me to it facebook ad was only up for like 10 mins as well , I also bought up all the lead crystal batteries when they liquidated .. dunno I like playing with electricity
@@christopherstaples6758 Aha ok.
Make more sense now. Cool, you have Aquion battery,... I am lookoing everywhere for those batteries.
@@cayrex I came up with another way to do my sock membranes inside an single enclosed IBC so no specialty cell stack needed and not needing aheap of drums , if I can get my PVC pipe manifold to fit / assemble inside through the 150mm hole .. , do you know the ideal amount of cells needed for 48v system ? I was doing 40 cells , a single 48v unit 1000L using of the shelf plumbing parts and O-Rings that should do 200A should be pretty helpfull for all the bushy off griders around here , also should I be measuring the ph ranges along with voltages ? (I have plenty of ph data loggers from Caridina Shrimp tanks) do you know if you need a 1:1 ratio of + and - liquid volume ? and should it be always mixed or will static / stagnant flow be ok ? tho it is still a ~$8kAUD initial startup cost for a ~3kw worth of storage with it costing about $600AUD per kw after that for additional liquid storage added , but I believe its about $10k less than any other basic redox cell stack I have been able to find over 50A
PVC DWV Riser 4 way Junction might be my new best friend or PVC 6 Way Equal Connector Sockets , is their any particular plastic film to look for that would block electrons flowing ? looking for something to join to membrane to use as insulator so I can attach something firmer to install UNI seals into (used for aquaponics for running PVC pipes through drum walls etc cheaper than bulkheads )
Is the battery powering the pumps? Could you get the electrolite to flow with gravity and pressure? Say, like a heron fountan times to complete its cycle at the same time the electrolite is finished? Or using RMS's 4 chamber on and just flip it every now and then.
damn didnt know this was so simple. Thank u for part 5 i was really waiting for it. Can u tell more about the ion exchange membrane and is there a cheaper way than nafion ie create your own ?
I have read somewere the use of specific paper and some ipa ?
It looks really simple, yes. But have also its complexity. About membrane you have many different types. One is of course Nafion 113, 117, etc then you have fumasep, and and and. but are all expensive. For example if I will use Fumasep membranes in 48V 3-4kW cell stack then the price will be around $2800 only for membranes. So looking for some alternatives is necessary. Some time ago I read something about zeolite membranes that can be used as membrane in VRFB,... but have higher self discharge aswell.
Hello
We're going to do an experiment
Can I know the ratio of vanadium solution, sulfuric acid powder, and distilled water??
I'd appreciate it if you could tell me
1.6M VOSO4 and 4M H2SO4
Very cool proof of concept. I've seen a lot of talk of this being done on a larger scale for grid level power storage. I imagine it's still not very cost effective for a consumer to do something like this though
Correct,... the VRFB is meant for large storage like grid support, data centers, etc. I mean you can buy,... and biger will be the capacity of the battery better will be also the price per kWh,... but still it can be expensive. Some china comany offers me a 5kW cell stack for $5200. And the 20kWh electrolyte another $10k
Hmmm... Could you estimate the charge state with an RGB sensor on each side to test the colour of each fluid?
Good thinking. It can be possible
Amazing video as always ! Please teach us more !
what is the variable that decides what amperage it can deliver? is that the flow? or maybe the size of the plates? and do u have any ideal when using salt water what the Wh/liter dencity would be?
The power is related to the surface area of the electrodes (for flow and non flow batteries). By flow batteries can power effect the concentration of the electrolyte. The Wh/l of salt flow battery similar to vanadium redox flow battery (20 Wh/l)
I have been waiting for this video!. Thank you. We're can we buy vanadium powder?. Thanks
Thank you. About V2O5 will be easy to get from ebay ebay if you are from EU. Otherwise you will need to look at web for V2O5 powders or for VOSO4
@@cayrex Thank you. Found it!.
How to manage the power supply of pumps from the same battery power?
More cells. Here I only demostrate the Vanadium flow battery system and for that reason I use only one cell. That I can run also the pumps, I will need 5 cells to get the voltage around 6V (because the pumps need 6V and 150mA)
This is an amazing project! Where can we get the blueprint for the custom-made test tube holder?
I made my self
Thank you.. Please can you consider making a real world prototype capable of 48v.... 40-60v range..
I will love to. But I am several thousand € to short. Only the membranes for 48V 3-4kW cell stack will cost me little less that 3k
I was thinking the same. A 1kW stack (or a couple) would be very useful for my access solar in the summer. And I have plenty room for the tanks for more storage.
Hi Carex
I am based in United Kingdom. Would you be able to produce for sale, a 20cm x 30cm stack cell for flow battery expermentation? Let me know the cost. My email address will be given on your request.
For now, the dimensions of 20x30 is to big. I am not able to make at that size.
@@cayrex What size can you make and how much?
Bro make me a 50v version 😂😂😂
1 thing neva explain is the pump power consumption compared to output 😂
Pumps need 6V and 150mA. One cell produce around 1.2V and 900mA.
@@cayrex nice 🙂 thanks for replying 👍
Fantastic work!!!
Please take to application stage with performance testing and measurement - would love to see how this performance, maybe even a scaling?
This is, how u waste energy ^^
How do you mean by that 😂
I imagine that scaling the size up AND using a lower power for the pumps makes it feasible. Right now it doesn’t make sense to use more power for the pumps than it is generating.
So about 0.2W from the battery to run the white LED? And about 5 to 10W to run the pumps from another power source? Have you done any rough calculations on efficiency?
That mini battery uses only one cell and is only for the demostration of the vanadium redox flow battery systems. And that the battery will run also the pumps I need to have more or less 5 cells to get the voltage around 6 volts (the pumps are 6V and 150mA).
can you now make a multi cell ? I have been unsure for a while now if each voltage cell needs their own tanks or can same storage tanks be used with just the collectors been put in series ? and if so can the pumps be feeding collectors in series or parallel with a pump per collector ? and what was the reason for ditching the titanium for copper ? I have used airlift pumps in the past for my salt water batteries that did not have membranes to act as an insulator between storage tanks and interest in doing a group buy for the membranes ?
One storage tank (catholyte and anolyte tank) for the complet cell stack. I dont know if I understood you correctlywo,.... but two pumps (+-) are pushing the electrolyte in series connected cells. Because you have the main electrolyte flow channel for positive and negative side and out from the main flow channel you have smaler channels that go to each cell. The titanium current is bit more chemical resistant,... but for the use of copper there was no specific reason. I will see for.the group buy. But for the start you can try Nafion 212 which you can get on ebay (mostly is used nafion 112 for VRFB) or fumasep membrane
@@cayrex hmm so another words if I just floated all my membrane socks in my 40,000L pool I pretty much have a complete battery bank and voltage would not be affected , I would have thought if the fluids touched each other that would have been like putting a battery in parallel , but I guess it really is just energy storage (I did give a full explanation how i made my cells its it looks like youtube never saved it )
@@christopherstaples6758 Emm, no! In a battery stack (which is made from multiple cells) each cell is separated. The cells frome one to another are only connected in series by bi-polare plate (which is in most cases a graphite plate). One cell is made like I do here in that video,.... current collector / reactor plate with graphite felt material/membrane/ reactor plate with graphite felt material / bi-polar plate / -> that was one cell. But for multiple cells you just repeat the process of the first cell. Then to each cell you have a flow of positive and negative electrolyte (+ electrolyte go into positive reactor plate and - electrolyte go into negative reactor plate). But the electrolyte for all cels come out from two tanks.
@@cayrex that is pretty much how I made them , but using membrane socks / tubes , the membranes are the cell separator's you just have a inner felt and outer felt the tricky part was connecting all the inner's via a manifold , bi-polar plate's can be eliminated , well I guess the manifold is like a bi-polar if their was a "discord" or something to share pictures ... the membranes are pretty much attached to PVC pipes then inner membrane liquid flows through the PVC pipe and then this is all separated from the outer liquid the membrane is sitting inside , I used plastic slotted /holed corrugated tubing to give something for the inner carbon felt to wrap around then forced it inside the membrane , very tight fit feels like an hr to pull through each cell a few mm at a time that last 50% is a $@#$ when doing socks (tubes you can at least pull still through but socks is all push and bounce back ) and then the core of the corrugated tube allows liquid to freely flow through , and to balance them out half the cells are in 1 tank and the other half are in the other tank with polarity reversed (then the liquid volume is all the same ) , pretty sure its about the same as how chlorinator's are made or at least that is what kept popping up when i was looking for bits to do what i was wanting to do
Wil you test the round trip efficiency?
I am getting about 75% but I do not care about efficiency as I have 5x the solar power I need , to me its always about not having to replace batteries , hell i am happy with my hyro system pump up hill 60m head into a 20,000L water tank but that only gives me emergency power to keep my aquarium pumps running with pipe flow rate limits etc I was wanting to get a fuel tanker for compressed air but no one liked the idea of me super compressing a ticking time bomb ....
Hahaha sounds like we are birds of a feather XD I'm always concerning people with my experiments in my urban area.@@christopherstaples6758
Good work sir.
Oh,... Thank you sir
I had a thought years ago! Of a electric car recharging by filling up a tank! Like a liquid battery! This type of battery Could possibly have the electrolytes charged at the "gas station" exchange the electrolytes, and travel another 600 miles or so! The charge station could it use a large battery and tanks to charge the electrolyte! The gas/charge station can use gravity to supply the cells with electrolyte and use the pump removing the electrolyte from the vehicle to put it above the reactor to charge it! It then go to a slightly lower tank to be gravity fed to another car! To nearly remove the need for pumps , build the reactor in a long skinny shape. With the flow path zigzagging across the cell! A traditional gas station can add this service by simply stacking cargo containers behind or beside the store about 2-3 containers with tanks inside the pump from the car fills the top tank. the charging reactor being in the middle container. And the charged and ready to sell container below , being ,7' to 9' +/- above ground. So it can fill the car in need of a charge ! An additional container can be used on the bottom to raise the whole system 8' - 9' while holding the pumps that remove discharged electrolytes from the vehicles! Along with monitiring and control equipment. Anove being the ready to distribute tank. Above that the charging reactors, then above this either a large tank for the spent electrolytes, or a container to house these tanks! A container being 8'(7'9")x 8' or 9' x 20' or 40' approximately! And they can be stacked side by side just as easily as above each other! So 8plus containers can be stacked beside and above one another! A ,20' long 8' x 8' or 8' x 9' container can hold alot of liquid, me personally would use multiple tanks 400 gallon each or so! With 30" to walk between to inspect and install! With two tanks stacked! The upper sitting on a shelf so the lower can be removed without the need to remove the upper! Use a leak less quick coupler for the connections that are likely to need disconnected and draining the system not desired! Like at the tanks , at the reactors definitely at the vehicle, possibly use s system like used with hydrogen or propene only use larger plumbing ! A 1.5" or 2" should give an acceptable flow rate with gravity feed! And the establishment can use solar power to run the system,, and possibly wind turbines a interesting idea for a charger system would be have the cars park on a platform while its getting its electrolytes. Its slowly getting lower and lower! Over the 5-10 minutes or so its parked at the station having its electrolytes replaced! It dropping anout ,6" or so! The weight spinning a generator! Tge ,3k-4k lbs vehicle dropping about, .250" -.500" per minute this spinning a PMA, (permeant magnet alternator) producing the power to charge the electrolytes! Producing about 3-10kw. Depending on a number of factors, say it takes 15 minutes to travel the full distance and 4 vehicles per hour that could be about 10 kwh per stall 100,kwh per day! And the system being reset by springs and the vehicle as it leaves! Use its weight to push the platform back up ,the 6-12" or whatever, And the car. Can leave at anytime! The platform using long ramps so the rise isn't noticed ! And the platform weighing about 2000,lbs, maybe 2500lbs. The ramp used to enter the ramp is used to reset it as the vehicle leaves, if the large springs don't it will be more efficient with weaker springs snd less dampening using multiple charging spots to produce more power. Maybe it will pop up in other places also fast food parking lots, the drive through! Connect the system to grid tie inverters to supply power to the grid! Have every 10'-12',,of the drive through generating power! It would generate less power with less travel only 4"-6" it can use hydraulics s piston and plunger a check valve a spring the pressurized fluid spinning a turbineas cars drive over! It can pay for it self in 6months to a year! Possibly parking lot drives can be used the cars could feel like walkingon heavily padded carpet. Every Couple feet or so being a platform with a piston compressing the fluid either into a turbine or sn accumulator to keep the the turbine going after the car had passed! Or if multiple cars are pressuring the system at once if the accumulation tank is filled either bypass or the cars just do not participate in generation! If the weight exceeds the pressure capacity then a bypass needs to be used! Using a 40 gallon accumulator storing fluid at 2000+ psi, eith the turning using 10gph or something little fluid at high pressure! Maybe a hydraulic motor would be more efficient! The use of high pressure and a relatively low flow rate should generate a fair amount of power! If multiple cars sre using the system. maybe use multiple turbines or generators having a valve open to feed the second generator after a certain pressure id reached and maintained over a certain time about a half to one second! It would basically be a 1/2"-1" hydraulic line running across the parking lot connected to short fat hydraulic cylinders been the ground and s platform making up the drive thru lanes in a parking lot! A 12" platform, with a 12" ramp to the next platform! Doing some research to see if having larger platforms Is more effective. Maybe a 6' or 8',is better with s 2" to 4" travel and 1"to 4" +/- piston! Basically two types of generator can be built from this. Long duration and short duration,(possibly a medium duration) one for parking vehicles. One for slow driving vehicles . Maybe one could be built for vehicles parking for hours or days! Have a lift basically. Ok park on the second level, return hours later the vehicle is on the first level! The weight,/gravity generating power! We must start thinking this way!! All home and business owners need to start thinking how can I generate power to export or feed my own micro grid?!! Every house needs a 10kwh battery 2,kw of solar and/or a wind turbine or multiple turbines! With s grind tie or off grid. Or grid interactive inverter a inverter capable of using battery power and send it to the grid! With the amount of power programmable and when it is sent how only send when the battery is full, and the charging system is charging or available! Allowing the battery to be emergency power or used to prevent brown outs! The government I'd saying all cars must be electric! Yet we can't generate enough power to heat homes in winter,! The first mandate should be double power production capabilities then the grid , then electric cars! Diesel electric and. Gas electric is the answer for today! We need to start burning garbage that can't be recycled, to generate power we all need to realize it's our problem! We need to work at it fix it or not we need to make progress! The government screws everything up!! Trying to help! But not too much! We can't have people getting ahead because we helped! Seems to be their thinking!! However having this type of batteries even at home would be great! Use gravity to circulate the electrolytes ! The Pump only powered when the top tank I'd nearly empty! Have a 48-60v battery capable of 1000ah +/- (+: better) all the way to a ,12,volt 200ah version that fits in a apartment closet or under a bed that is charged with a 100-200 watt solar panel hanging in a window! With a inverter capable of running the tv and lights. Or just refrigerator and lights or just the AC in summer or a heater in winter! Save power and dollar$.... Great video, sorry I ramble. Have a great day,!!
Yep I agree. Refiling batteries will be really great for EV. So the vanadium flow battery will not be the best for that job because of low energy density and power. I think that for 1kWh you need around 50L for each tank. Otherway,... I making a flow battery project which can be used in EV and can be charged by refiling on refiling stations or simply charging by grid at home.
Looks GREAT!
You might consider getting pumps that work at really low voltages in serries with the charger and in serries with the load. That way, they always pump when current is flowing. They also probably don't need to pump very much.
You might get two small 1.5v dc motors. Then YT is full of videos on people making tiny centrifugal pump. You may even 3d print yours up in a couple minutes. The DC motors working in series with a load or while charging, they will probably drop around 0.5v or there abouts and rotate more slowly consuming even less energy, But that should be fine they don't need to pump a lot and Just adjust the charging voltage acordingly.
It might take some work to optimize pump flow rate to current draw.
Thanks. Yes I have small pumps,... but the big ones looking better 😅 The flow rate can be in range of 5 to 15ml/min,.... so for that reason I can use small pumps. The pumps which I use have 6V motors,... but in the video they run both on half of power (around 3.2V). Anyway in the video I use singel cell version but to run also the pumps I will need multiple cell stack battery when the battery is discharging.
mean while I use air lifts ~20watts can move ~15kl of water / hr just thinking about a way to use that system with a redox , more so just about managing head heights , tho closed loop systems should not need large pumps the only resistance is the tubing size as lift is not needed
@@christopherstaples6758 so I was thinking, if the pump motor is in series with the load, and or in serries with the charger. Then the pumps are working only when they are needed, when current flows.
The challenge in this configuration though is a pump motor that works at really low voltages, < 1v.
(Shameless plug to my motor on my channel) The axial flux BLDC motor I built on my channel idles at 610 rpm using 5 watts at 1.5v is too fast and need too much voltage, but I think it would work at lower voltages if the speed controller used hall censors rather than back emf for motor position sensing.
I wonder if a simple homopolar motor would work in this application. They are brushed and can work on
@@kreynolds1123 yeh I was tinkering around with idea's as well to somehow have a functional pump if grid /backup battery was down to power a pump to provide fresh energy for the cells and a way for a pump to have multiple power sources using relays etc , I ended up doing airlifts and it worked (now I just need to find a way to keep the liquid pure from rubber contaminates from the air pump ) , as instead of building a large cell stack and trying to force liquid through it and not have leaks , I actually have multiple electrode tanks/cells (well 200L drums with screw lids IBC's would have needed multiple electrodes made per tank and I could not be bothered reaching inside the tanks to do them through small hole was very quick to setup ) pretty much using a membrane sock that just sits in the solution with opening just slightly above water level to be separator , sock was sized to be ~50% of cylinders volume (membrane is 86cm H x 25cm Circumference sealed on bottom and sides to be like a bag ~100L volume , Drum contains about 70cm x 60cm solution ~200L total ) with carbon felt lined on the inside and outside of the membrane and did not want to run 80 odd pumps cycling each tank so air pump and solenoid valves came to the rescue (I run large aquaponics system here pretty much just copied my filtration systems :P ) now that all these drums are working its just a matter of getting the 2x 20,000L water tanks delivered and make a manifold and hope it all still works when all the liquids are connected together , if not I'll just have to use geyser pump technique to use air as insulation between the tanks , the next challenge is getting the Solar MPPT chargers to output voltage when voltage is below 44v !!! currently I have to jump start the charging from another battery bank but that is just because of smart chargers being smart chargers ....
Maybe use MHD pumps that become active according to the current demand.
Try making a manganese or chromium redox battery. Should provide decent energy because you can form anions as well as various degrees of cations from the metals. ❤
A manganese type can be interesting. But before that I will try a zinc vanadium flow battery
Very fun watch, how much vanadium powder is used? What is the voltage of the cell? Im intrested, would a bigger cell discharge more power and higher voltage.
you could have an unlimited solar storage using extra storage containers and pumps. The shown vials would be the charging area.
What is the cell voltage I say in the video. About the electrolyte which is used in that battery I have a video on members or patreon. Or you look for all the info on web. Cell voltage is from 1.1V to 1.5V. The electrolyte is in most cases a 1.5M vanadium electrolyte. If the cell is biger then you will have also biger surface area,.... which means that you will get more power out. But the size of the cell will not influence on the voltage. To get higher voltage you need to use more cells connected in series
apparently mixing in pyrylium salt almost doubles energy density
Yes! Many things will increase the energy density. But in the end the cost will have the final word. For that reason you need to set the balanced electrolyte to have good performance at good price.
Beautiful culmination of your project!
AAA - Always Add Acid. Please do not add water into concentrated acid. It can generate a lot of heat and splatter into your face. Thanks for the videos.
Relax, I know what I am doing 😁 I add water to acid because I want to generate heat. But of course you need to add water to acid in controlled way. Otherwise, you need to add acid to water for sure.
Excellent work. Next will be adding some series cells to supply voltage to run the pumps?
Of course
but can it run the pumps on its own power and still produce enough power to run something else
Hey! That one not, because this battery have only one cell and if more or less for the demostration of the system. But when the battery have more cells (like in commercial VRFB) which will create a voltages from 12 to 48V then the battery can run the pumps and something else. Here in the video the pumps need 6 volts and one VRFB cell create around 1.2 to 1.4 volts. So I will need at least 5 more cells.
That was just beautiful!
Just for completeness, could you assemble a double stack of cells so you can possibly run the pump motors of the actual battery?
I assume it would be possible to loop the tubing through multiple cells in series or parallel?
Thanks! Yes it is possble. 5 more cells can do the job.
@@cayrex How is the current? Maybe a single cell and using a boost converter could work? Just to get it self-contained.
Nice
I just want to mention copper and carbon felt combined was a bad idea, carbon felts are all blue/green now from the copper collectors (used braided copper weaved/wrapped around the carbon felt ), and aluminum is the worst combination because of galvanic corrosion, so I guess I will be using nickel felt as the collector for the carbon felt, Titanium would be the next best option but I already have a few rolls of nickel sitting here unused last few decades , or I might order in some graphite wire , it's a shame the felt wicks the liquid so easily
So, you put the copper direct to the carbon felt which is soaked with electrolyte?
@ pretty much , I wanted good full contact with the felt with lowest resistance possible for high current draw / charge , the copper collectors was pretty much sandwich between 2x carbon felt layers ,what I have is agi drainage pipe as a support structure then carbon felt wrapped around that then I had copper wire winding down to the bottom then winding back up the top tieing the felt to the pipe (like chicken wire / latace so it was not like a heater coil ) then I had another layer of carbon felt wrapped around then the membrane sleeve / sock / tube holding that in place , then carbon felt wrapped around the membrane then copper wire winding down and back up again to tie it all tightly together with another outer felt layer just tied on with fishing line and a few zip ties and a larger agi pipe slid over top to keep it protected , these are sitting inside 200L plastic drums and I am now cheating a bit using pairs of drums with polarities reversed so i do not have to worry about matching volume sizes something I have no way to explain with out pictures but as I am flowing liquid though membrane tubes (they are no longer flat sheets but tubed like a drinking straw ) the inside tube has lower liquid volume then the external side of the tube sitting inside the drums so I alternate in pairs , ie) drum 1 has + on internal tube - on external drum 1 then the drum 1 gets plumbed into drum 2 internal tube and it has - on the internal tube and + on external drum 2 that is plumbed into drum 1 internal tube , I really hope I typed that all right , others have been saying to Nickel plate the copper , but others are saying that will also have galvanic corrosion , I do also have nickel strips / rolls for 18650 battery packs , but did not want to use them because they will block liquid flowing through the felt easily , also these are 86cm long full height of the drums , the centre has been cut out about 1 foot wide for acess with a donor drum capping off their tops / creating a lid , using the remaining 6 inch lip for holding things in place giving me something to bolt onto for electrodes etc considering the drums cost next to nothing well worth it :P no need for custom stack blocks and custom O-rings to prevent leaks , I just have membrane held on / sealed with a generic O-ring on PVC pipe that just slips over the top of the internal agi pipe the felt then goes up inside this PVC pipe for electrical connections and the membrane is sealed onto the external of this pipe liquid is flowed through a vented T , oh and I am now stacking them by using 90 deg elbows as a carbon felt separator so the liquid going up and down through multiple membrane tubes each can do 100A , my 5kw inverter can only do 120A so until I get another inverter I can not stress test it much more think 80A was actually its rating but I have tallied up the MPPT Solar Chargers and have seen 400A going into it peak how ever I was only getting about 200w out of 250w from the individual panels so I might just need to clean them :D also i am scared of killing the membranes by having too much current , unsure what their limits are or if they have already been surpassed , does anyone know how much voltage / current they can safely be exposed to >?
and a mate just suggested nickel plate the carbon felt as well , so going to see how that goes as well : Copper ρ (Ω•m) 1.68×10−8 σ (S/m) 5.96×107 , Nickel ρ (Ω•m) 6.99×10−8, σ (S/m)1.43×107, Carbon ρ (Ω•m)5×10−4 to 8×10−4 σ (S/m)1.25 to 2×103
so what the point if the pumps aren't running off the battery as well?
Yes, if you turn off the pumps then the battery will stop working after some time. Because the capacity of the battery is not stored in the cell but in the electrolyte. So,... some of the electrolyte will still be in the cell when the pumps are not runing and the cell will still work for so long that all the small amount of the electrolyte which is in the cell will be discharged.
no I mean if the pumps run off the cell itself in a closed loop do you get surplus energy?@@cayrex
Have you done a cell stack?
Yes
Hello. What you can comment about possible concept of Hydrogen Peroxide Redox Flow Battery. How efficient such battery construction can be? Hydrogen peroxide can be generated and then stored for longer time.
Hello! You mean something like NaOH//H2O2 flow battery? I dont have the idea about efficient of that battery.
@@cayrex Yes, correct. I meant NaOH/H2O2 flow battery. There are interesting unit in a market developed that can produce H2O2 onsite with special using Direct electrochemical synthesis using only water, electricity and air. No liquid electrolyte. It will be interesting to combine such technology generating H2O2 from solar and storing energy in a form of hydrogen peroxide for later use in H2O2 flow battery
@@GintsVideo Yes that can be interesting.
@@cayrex The energy density of aqueous H2O2 (60%) is 3.0 MJ l−1 (2.1 MJ kg−1), which is comparable to the value (2.8 MJ l−1, 3.5 MJ kg−1) of compressed hydrogen (350 bar).
@@cayrex technology producing 99.999% pure hydrogen peroxide on-site, using only air, electricity, and water.
Can you make a fuel cell battery without corroding electrodes that just uses water?
Yes, with salt water a flow battery is possible. But vanadium can de more energy dense.
what is the point of this battery if you need fans running ? lol over complex for nothing to be honest.
Heh, and still the vanadium redox flow battery is one of the most used flow battery on the world. Here I make only a mini singel cell variant. ☺
@@cayrex the world uses alot of inefficient tech to be honest, back in late 1800's to early 1900's each house hold made it own batteries... do some more research. thanks.
@@baware80 so much lost tech as well , for decades they have been trying to reproduce things made centuries ago , at least in the electronic world its quicker to get stuff shared before some agency knocks you off the face of the planet now