Swapping Pressed Pistons For The Home Engine Builder
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- Опубліковано 23 лют 2022
- When a machine shop with a proper rod oven isn't available or your budget is super tight, a piston/rod swap with pressed pins can be accomplished using a mapp gas torch and following the simple guidelines.
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I can absolutely attest to this. I couldn't afford machine shop stuff when I was younger. Had to build and learn and integrate from others. That led me to working at a machine shop and expanding. I'm now a custom engine builder, self employed, and have more work than I want. You younger people have now idea how easy you have to people like UT a keyboard away.
He has been more than helpful that is for sure. UT has amazing content. Its sad to know that in just a few decades nobody will even know how to build a Chrysler 383. Just like we dont know how to build the rockets that sent us to the moon. It is technology lost to time.
@@alpha13dylan eventuallyknowing how to pour beer will be the same way
Ain't that the truth. My learning was all trial and error ,reading books and asking guys my father's age what to do.
Eat a dick. You had 1$ gas and 5000$ cars.
@@sawyerbarnes7439 and 4.00 an hour minimum wage, and at 18 parents kicked kids out to become adults. Not raise manchilds in the basement
Brilliant, you have cleared a niggling worry I had after I received my pistons and rods back from the machine shop. I noticed the wrist pins were not all precisely central when the connecting rod wrre. I enquired with them about this and they said it’s fine. Being my first warm V8 rebuild, I was skeptic all but you have cleared the worry. Good job, thanks.
when I got mine back (f302), the pin ends of the rod were all discolored dark purple. it's been nagging me ever since that they might have killed the forge strength by overheating.
@ SometimesLeela
Actually, so did I. But I figured with heat there was always going to be discolouration but to what extent. Mine too had dull purple shade but our man Tony has lifted our concerns.
that would piss me off especially with how much some of us are paying for the simplest of stuff done app machine shops! in this situation I would expect that pins to be centered within .020" at the most and if they weren't then I would have them do it again which would cause me even more concern because of how many times the rod had to be heated! parts are not cheap and I have a lot of bad experiences at machine shops and their prices are definitely not cheap!
the prices I'm paying at my machine shops I demand perfection especially for the price of quality parts, so those pins better be pretty damn close to dead center on all eight!
whats a niggling
Hey Uncle Tony .. great video man ! .
My Father was a mechanic his entire life ,. and worked on everything in his mechanic shops , including doing his own machining with his own equipment .
when he would assemble pistons and rods he would basically do what you just did in your video . except he would usually use his oxygen and acetylene torch , with a small rosebud tip on it .
because like you said , most piston pins have an offset to one side , he had spacer tools that he made from copper for the spacing .
they were U shaped tool with about a four inch handle on them .
he four of them in different sizes , but the one most often used was the .060" thick one .
and he would also use 30 weight motor oil on the piston and pin during assembly .
but you are absolutely right , it is all the same concept .
thank you for the videos Tony
Tim from Wisconsin .
Man, I just pulled and pressed a carrier bearing on my 86 Volvo driveshaft. The manager at the part store was impressed, said he bought a new shaft because of the way his was pressed together. Not sure his vehicle, but I was like "really? I'm not even that much of a gearhead and I'm doing it!" No fire needed, just cut a 1-3/4" notch in a block of wood and gently hammered it on. Pain in the ass is it's special order shit, and I got the wrong rubber donut it goes in so I'm waiting a week for the fucker I need. Glad it's a project car and not my daily (it will be again sometime).
Not but a few months ago I was watching Tony talk about people that are doers. I was not in that category then, but I'm working on being more of a doer! My primary truck had a few problems I needed to fix. (Body control module had a burnt circuit- started the adventure). When I was satisfied (and bored), I dragged the old Volvo up out of the dirt. Thanks for the inspiration, Tony!
Edit: anyone wondering, parts have been pretty cheap so far, but nobody has them in stock for same day pickup. O'Reilly has become the standout in my recent experience, if that helps anyone. Used to go to Napa a lot but they close earlier/less convenient for a non-pro like me.
My Dad has done this stuff since the 60's and said, "Everything you are Saying Word for Word", on a Friday Night as he showed me how to do this very same thing. I learned 2 things, the right way to do it, and how to do it when you can't do it the right way, but it has to be done anyway. Great Video UTG! and an even better message.
Man, I’ve been doing it all wrong!
Going through case after case of bic lighters. 😦
Candles don't work very good either 😏
Lol!
I'll let you know how the magnifying glass works but it might be a while...
@@codemang87 Rubbing these 2 sticks together is taking a really long time 😁
@@pauberrymon5892 are least you can find sticks! I've been waiting a week just for the clouds to clear!
Using a factory installed piston as a guide, make a simple fixture to help you get that pin centered. It really helps when you have that hot connecting rod and you are trying to move fast before it cools.
DD speed shop gave you a shout out and painted his engine block like you did in your video.
I did this at home on my first 440 engine build back in the 90’s & man, I can’t tell you how grateful I am that Firepower Hemi has FLOATING wrist pins.
When you see it done at the machine shop the heater looks like a toaster. My local shop machined and balanced my lower end and pressed the pins while I waited, did all 8 in about 10 minutes for $8 a piece. Seemed like a fair price so I let him take care of it for $64 .
When I had a shop I had an old toaster oven used for such things.
If the rod is heated to hot it distorts the small end therefore it loses it quench .ie press fit ,. Seen this way to many times. Pin moving in against the cyl wall when it gets hot . Owned a machine shop for 30+ years .Let a shop do it
@@eugeneyelton3829 And he heated it too hot. If its red its too hot.
@@eugeneyelton3829 I get what you're saying but machine shops hire idiots too. It's not their motor it's not their money spent. Ive had them F up my stuff before.
I've used the same method installing bearings. Put the bearings in the freezer, then heat up the pocket the bearing sits in. When it's warm, pull bearing out of the freezer and should slide right in. Can also use an oven for heating parts too, if their small enough. Great video! This is the garage mechanics way taught to me by my grandfather.
Have put new bearing races in many truck hubs this way, also ring gears on flywheels.
Last shop i worked in had a huge commercial oven we could put a whole 4 cyl diesel block in we could freeze the new cylinder liners over night and they just dropped in by hand after you set the block in the oven for about 2hrs.
Never put parts in wifes oven. Oil always smells up the kitchen, even if you clean parts. Ask me how I know. Now just have dedicated toaster oven in garage. Haha
Rods will get harder if you put them in a nice warm place.
@@BigBing1987 I usually put the new ring gear in the pizza oven for a bit.
Great how to video.
I've done this numerous times on pistons. And the same process works when inserting bearings and bearing races into axle tubes
The learning never stops at UTG. Saw your guest appearance on DD speed shop. Damn nice of you to do way up there to help Dan.
Love it Uncle Tony, showing the little guys with little budgets how to do it!!
Thanks Uncle Tony your the best! I asked this a couple weeks back on a live stream, great to see a follow up video as I know it’s a hot topic with not a lot of info out there. I ended up building an adjustable jig that clamps the piston and sets the wrist pin depth, very similair to what a machine shop has. Ive always been told if the rod gets dull red/red hot the rod is toasted and might aswell throw it out. I did this last week in my SBC I only heated the rods until they were blue and the wrist pin slid right in no problem, Great work by the way appreciate the video!
Used Moms oven to heat my 327 rods back in the day. Worked great until Mom went to use the oven the next day. My ass is still sore from the old man.
A red heat visible in daylight is around 1000°. That must have been quite the oven.
I stumbled into your content about a year ago....ThankYou, God Bless you and the UTG family and friends!!!
Great "how to" video Tony thanks. There is a British motorcycle engine builder that we all know and love that uses his gas grill to do this. Either method looks very easy if you take your time. Thanks again.
Awesome as always Sir! Thanks for the Super Useful info for us regular folks!
Thanks for doing these "home engine builder" vids! They're super informative and helpful.
So glad everything I have uses floating pistons. Sprio locks are SLIGHTLY less annoying than pressed pin.
This was the video I was waiting for. Along with every new video of course. Good job!
I have taken it up on myself to do my 86 4 runner's 22RE. This channel has made me feel so much more comfortable about the project. Watching you has helped me grasp and understand so much more. Thank you!
Great engine! How did it go?
MAPP burns hotter, not just a bigger flame. Great video Tony!
Also, the point where the primary cone and secondary cone meet is the hottest part. If the primary bright blue cone is wrapping around the piece, you're holding it too close. Sorry, I'm a firebug.
Mapp has more btu's
A little bit of Acetylene does wonders. MAPP gas is not always available these days.
@@jimc3688 Not very experienced with Acetylene, but I wanna study up and get a rig. I wonder if I put a rod end in my propane forge, would it be good or heat up to large of an area? Looks like a handheld torch and patience are where my experience level would lead me.
There has not been any mapp gas produced after 2008. If you read the label on that familiar yellow bottle it says map pro. It's what replaced mapp gas. It does burn hotter than propane but not as hot as mapp gas.
Was gonna say ,I've got a torch head that is used on mapp or propane just screw an adjustment knob.
Thank Tony for another awesome video! I remember the 1st time I seen this done..i was like oh my God my RODS!! The machinist was an old guy that was known for building race engines so i didnt dare question him. That engine saw some high revs and never had an issue with it! I still have machinist do certain things for me just cause their way better at it
The new Mapp gas is nothing like the OG stuff from the 2000’s that got discontinued. In fact, it is only marginally hotter than propane. Look it up. Don’t let the sound or looks of the flame fool ya.
It's still hotter. If you try this with propane, you can't heat it enough. MAPP gas just barely does it, but it does it. I use oxyacetylene torch myself. That will get it way too hot, so you have to be very careful with that.
I looked into that too. MAPP gas is new and less hot than MAP gas of old. They snookered us by adding that extra P and it is only a couple hundred degrees hotter than the older stuff.
Sorry, than the propane stuff. Correction in my wording.
Yep only about 100 degrees F hotter than propane
@@elmerfudpucker3204 You only need the rod to get to 400-450. Propane will work just fine. A toaster oven would work just fine.
It's amazing what heat and cold will do for press fits. I had an interference fit bearing in a tractor axle where the old one slipped out and I couldn't get the new one in and due to it being inside the housing I couldn't tap it really with anything. Bearing sat in the freezer overnight and I heated the housing just a bit with a propane torch and when I got the bearing out it just pushed right in with ease.
Cool! I’ve always been worried about setting pins in rods. I’ve always had the machine shop do them. I’ve been curious about replacing pistons of different metals, and domes. This was definitely an eye opener! Thanks again!
Looks good Tony. I have a little jig i made out of scrap that I set the piston in, and it has a bolt on one side to set the pin depth. Ive always done this job with a propane torch.
I'll be doing this myself after your tutorial. Easy method and excellent how to. Thanks!
Nice tutorial! I had forgotten that I did this back in the 70's putting 12.5/1 pistons in my uncles 62 Impala! I actually need to put a set of 5.7" rods on 400 pistons, so this is cool!!
Back when I was a pup 78 I worked for chevrolet I was doing an engine that needed a rod so I bought it to a machine shop down the street and he used a torch to do it made it look so simple no questions about how you are doing this
Wow! I've never heated the rod to remove a pressed in pin. I've got a huge vise & pressed the pins out to clean the pistons & rod then pressed the pin back in. I've never damaged a piston or had any issue. I see the benefit of heating the rod it would take the stress off the piston while making in pin go in a lot easier.
Awesome.
Thank you, uncle Tony and uncle Kathy.
This channel is a public service for the nex generation of hot rodders
Watching power nation and motor trend in the past few years turned me away from cars for lack of budget . Even though ive always been a die hard car fanatic .
Thank you Tony , youve inspierd me and gave me confidence to start tinkering with engines again
I grab the rod through the big end and hold it in such a way that when I extend my hand the tang will be in the direction I need it in and keep it like that. That way once the heat is off I can quickly assemble
Thanks Uncle Tony. Been looking on how to do a rod swap and your method saves the rod and the piston. Just what I needed. You Rock!
His method ruins the piston as most do.. You need specialty jigs if you want to save the piston.
Reminds me of heating up a starter ring gear until it falls into a new flywheel, a new M Benz standard shift flywheel doesn't always come with a starter ring gear, so sometimes you have to patiently tap around the old flywheel with a brass drift to remove the ring without breaking it and put it on the new flywheel. If all goes well getting it off, just lay it flat and heat the crap out of it with Acetylene/Ox torch.
But never ever tap the ring while it's hot. It will snap like popcorn. Great Video Uncle Tony.
Of course a machine shop is easiest but I have done it at home without much trouble. Its all about setup. I used a block of wood with a section cut out with the same radius as the piston. I used a cheap tabletop hydraulic press from harbor freight. Heating the rod in the oven and cooling the pin in the freezer reduces the amount of force the press has to apply.
Another great uncle Tony tip! See ya tomorrow for sure!
No cherry red, "you're not looking to have the heat come up the shank of the rod" that got a good laugh outta me. I could just about hear the clatter of piston and rod on start up after reassembly and hoping uncle rodney didnt make a quick exit. Lol....
There are some propane torch rigs that are capable of high heat operations but you won't find them usually at the local hardware store. I have used some in the plumbing trade in place of acetylene units.
Damn Uncle Tony making it look easy! Love this channel.
I was half expecting the party trick with this one... in my automotive class, our teacher did this exact thing (with an oxy torch instead, though) but when he let it cool down, he showed the transfer of heat from the conrod to the pin, and from the pin to the piston. My teacher did this by holding the connecting rod up off the piston by a bit (about a 45 degree angle) and when the con rod cooled down and the pin heated up, the pin locked up inside the conrod and the piston, making the conrod stay on the 45ish angle... until it dropped when the piston soaked up some of the heat from the pin, expanding the hole to be bigger. Great content nonetheless, and was everything I remember being taught about this! I even distinctly remember the feeling of the pin slipping into the conrod... good times!
4:48 “I USE MY FINGERS AS A GAUGE….” best Rock Band name of the ‘60’s.
Thanks Tony , that was the coolest thing I've ever seen .
I need to start learning to do that my self. Most of the old timer in my area getting to old and retired or dieing off.. you have the same techniques my pap used. He passed away 7years ago at 84 years old.
Great job Tony.
The only other advantage to having a machine shop doing this that they would check the bore of the large end of the rod and machine it if it is found to be out of round.
Good on ya uncle tony always helping out the home-gamer DIY man….!!
You're a godsend, Uncle Tony! Thank you!
Thanks for the tech Uncle T. Got a 327 Chevy that needs a new piston. Might give it a shot on all 8
An old friend's dad had a pieces of metal that were bent to a Block C shape for replacing pistons or connecting rods on any of his three engines
Very good practice, nice job explaining Tony.
I love the paint-stir stick idea.
Awesome vid! I appreciate the information here, I should have listened to the very first thing you said and taken mine to a machine shop! Haha, I ruined a 440 6 Pack Rod, and Tweaked a KB 137 Piston Head!!! I mentioned your chanel in the video I'm posting now crediting you with giving me the confidence to try this myself. You make it look very easy. I just found your channel and look forward to watching more of your stuff!
Thanks for another helpful video!
Thanks! This is very timely information for me!
I have a Samurai I'm working on that has rods like this, although they're a lot smaller than that old Mopar! I think I'm going to try a machine shop for this one though, I feel like the tiny little pistons and wrist pins won't take my ham-fisted attempts well. It really looks easy in your video, and if I didn't have a machine shop ready to do it for me, I'd be out there in the shop with a torch myself.
Thanks greatly I have a jeep 4.0 I think may either have a loose rod or or damaged piston . Also checking other posiable reasons from torque converter bolts and so on but starting to look like it's time to drop the pan.
I was wondering if there was a way to change out piston and rods so now I know as long as the pins are not thin wall. It's a 2001 so what are the odds .lol
Definitely works. They sell great crayons that melt at predictable Temps which helps those nervous about overheating. Freezing the pin also is a good idea. Heading the rod is heating the rod. I love full floaters and haven't used anything else since early 90's. But those are high dollar engines and another topic altogether.
Thumbs up 👍 Thank you for the Video uncle Tony I enjoyed watching 👀
I "press fitted" my whole Speed Pro hypereutectic set with nothing but that exact bernzomatic propane torch. I had to, because everywhere I tried to take em literally told me "I can't guarantee that I won't crush these pistons with the press". Freezing the wrist pins made it sooo much worse. It cooled the rod too fast and then you don't have the same window of opportunity to get it centered. I just heated the rod and pushed the pin through exactly the same way you demonstrated, to where my fingers stopped it.
Pressing he piston out with a press ruins the piston as the shop told you. You need specialty jig. The shop was explaining that to you but you did not listen.
A stick welder can also be used to heat the rod, not to weld on it but arc the welder out on the rod end and let it hum until it gets warmer enough positive and negative on each side of the rod end to only heat the end
Shorting out a 200A welder...you're a special type of stupid.
Expertly presented & Explained !! .....It's Important to measure the Actual desired pin offset Direction as some Aftermarket pistons Arrow stamp is oriented Reversed from Oem & you can end up Reversed from Intended !!
That was good to know and well demonstrated
Nice video Tony thanks for the knowledge
It looks like he's using a Bernzomatic TS4000 torch and so called 'map gas'. This setup will cost a sizable sum of money. I used a regular brass style torch from the hardware store and propane gas. I put the pin in a bowl of ice for 15 minutes before installing and it worked just fine.
Good Advice brought to you by the Shut up and listen corner here at UTG Headquarters..
Keep wrenching everyone
Badda Bing, Badda Bip!!
Good stuff.
A simple pin stop can be built on a mill or drill press table (or any flat surface). An infrared thermometer takes away the chance of extracting the temper of the rod. 430-460 degrees F is what I aim for.
400 range is what you want. If you got it red like Tony, its too hot.
That was fun.
Valuable information. Great video.
Excellent these are great skills to have.
Excellent, thanks !
Excellent vid Uncle Tony. I'm assuming this is one way to do the much debated practice of "turning the pistons around backwards" on a 318,to change the offset that you mention in the pistons,to get a bit of added low end torque. I ask because i've always wanted to try it.
I've always had good results just tapping it out with a socket as the driver. I've been told it can't be done that way, but it works just fine.
It will work if you dont care about ruining the piston or pin.
@@TripleWhopperWithCheese It works without damaging anything if you're only moderately careful. The socket is Cr-V, which is far softer than a pin, so it won't be damaged that way. It's done on a block of wood, which is softer than aluminum, no damage there, either. I've been rebuilding engines for almost 40 years and haven't had a problem using this method.
Thanks for this info I'm in Canada we don't have any machine shops anymore
Very good videos Tony, I enjoy your information
Another great video
Great demonstration..
thanks so much uncle tony. Regards
great video Tony
Thank you , explained very well
Thank you, great explanation
I did a dirt bike piston by putting the piston pin in the freezer and the rod in the oven at about 210 degrees, a little oil and it slipped right into place then let it cool
learned something new. thanks
Playing with racecars that was one job I hated, not difficult just a pain. Was a joy when we learned about floating pins with clips
Great video !
Thank you for giving me the confidence to do this myself. The machine shop wasnt an option.
I have done this using a toaster oven and stove top coil as well, same principle applies.
Great video great you are a great help
You are a mad man. Lol. Excellent video
Thanks Tony
I appreciate your video you saved me time and money thank you
Thanks Tony. I'll put that in my toolbox 🤔
Machine shops have messed up my co$tly forged pistons a couple of times. Will experiment on a couple of used rod / pistons Thank Uncle Tony .
Same here sad to say
Forged pistons will be free floating. If yours were press fit they were junk.
@@TripleWhopperWithCheese TRW for a turbo Corvair Spyder. Not the very best but dependable nos.
VGG got a tour of the Blue Print engines factory. They do so many if these that they have a special fixture. Machine presents piston appropriate side up with wrist pin inserted to proper depth. The operator has a rod presented also in the correct orientation. He places the piston end in a heating slot and presses a button. When the rod is ready a light goes green. The operator moves the rod over to the piston and pushes a button which properly inserts the pin.
That was Cletus, not VGG.
awesome video
STEVE Dulcitch has a video on how to make a tool that presses the pin in or out without any heat or damage to the pistons with nothing more than an old pin and a threaded rod . IT works like a c press for kingpins and you don't have to heat the rods ,maybe putting the pins in freezer to install to go back easier.I know how UT doesn't care too much for those guys but its a pretty ingenious tool
Where can I see that???
@@brandonbelongstocharlottef1798 Homemade tool removes press pin on Steve Dulcitch channel on UA-cam
@@ronnieb7408 thank you sir 👍
If you're going to trash the piston and pin like that, might as well just heat it and smack it out with a socket. A lot less work.
Is this where you would reverse the piston direction in relation to the rod? or do you reverse the rod-piston assembly when you reverse the pistons?
Don't reverse the rods in the engine. Reverse the pistons on the rods.