Also, i see Roger maintaining his concentration and refusing to slide down into humour and away from the salient point. Powerful display from Roger here.
One of the realities facing Conservative MPs is that their constituents often ARE the vested interests that need to be persuaded to change course - not only are they comprised of wealthy landowners (not the same thing as farmers) for whom personal economic gain trumps social, civic or public goods, but they are also the very same people who are either the executives of large corporations, or significant shareholders in those companies, for whom swift profit outweighs sustainable long-term value. It is not as coincidental as Zac implies that this battle is happening under Tory 'leadership'. I know plenty of right-leaning voters who seem entirely comfortable with continuing to vote for self-serving short-termist policies whilst at the same time claiming to be supportive 'in principle' of the ambitions of people like those on the panel. Penetrating the hypnotized delusional state in which such people functionally exist is the greatest challenge we face, because without waking them up, the corporate entities that THEY control or influence will not change course. Roger is trying to agitate and accelerate that process, Zac is trying to evolve it - it seems unlikely to me that we have sufficient time for the latter.
The important thing about this great conversation is that all involved were willing to focus on our desperately needed common goals. And that is how it needs to be of course #WeHaveToWinThisOne
Mr Goldsmith completly underestimates the size of the problem of overshoot . there is no government in the world who can do anything about that. is it possible he is trying to calm people down in order to prolong the quiet before the storm?
Goldsmith is intelligent and well-spoken (in that posh patrician Paddy Ashdown public school kind of way) but his confidence that change can be achieved through the current electoral system and with our mass media and political representatives in the pocket of vested interests and international capital, reflects someone living in cloud cuckoo land. Does he seriously expect either the Conservative Party or the Labour Party to be a sufficient agent of change here?
I think unfortunately people like this have to, otherwise to concede ground would challenge their world view and they would capitulate - I think genuinely it's a protection mechanism. Could also be scared of what a revolution can bring in terms of turmoil and uncertainty.
I'm sorry but if Goldsmith want to change systems, rather than tap the conveyer belt with a spanner, spraying oil when required then he's in the wrong party! That party isn't the Labour Party which is a "social democratic" party instead Goldsmith needs to find himself a "democratic socialist" party and yes the order of words does matter!
Yes, he won't fundamentally challenge the power of international capital. The way to do that is not through regulation but by returning the ownership of it to the commons. That requires a revolution.
A big part of the problem is that we've left it so late, it's difficult to sugar the pill. The demands we make on farming makes its power disproportionate, and they in turn are able to make the kind of demands that reversed the policy that ZG was talking about. That's just food...then there is transport, energy production and so fourth. I fear that Roger Hallam has a grip on reality that Zac does not. His outlook has the air of naive hope and conservatism - not only that, he seemed to keep insisting that Hallam was talking about violent revolution when RH repeated several times that he meant systemic revolution. It won't be a matter of goverment of one colour or another solving things, or the signing of agreements - people appear to find it nigh on impossible to stick to any agreement - by terribly influential and responsible bodies...because events will overtake us. Indeed, this is the central point. If we don't make fundamental changes to the way we live, events will overtake us. The political extremism that RH talks about will be made possible by the fear generated by destabilisation due to climate change. This is why the kind of intransigence that prevents any meaningful change taking place is deeply baffling to me; where are folks going to spend all this cash they've salted away? I really can't foresee anywhere being safe once the anticipated upheaval begins. That's what I call facing facts. Where I would differ from 'survivalists' quite profoundly, is instead of running away, we should band together to find solutions and to confront our politicians with irrevocable truths. Whenever the whining of 4x4 owners becomes voluable, challenge it - insisting we do nothing in the face of quite disturbing evidence really should be revealed as the childish footdragging that it is. If nations the world over put their heads together and used the scientific expertise that created something like the Hadron collider to address climate change - instead of creating and fighting insane wars everywhere - how much better would our situation be? This is a problem for our species, not just one country. Finally, their was some piss-taking of popular democracy. But isn't that what local democracy is? Councillors Steve and Bob arguing over road maintenance? Isn't it what both major political parties cleave to when they've run out of things to say .....decentralising power? Roger Hallam laid it on the line finally; the conversation suddenly became real.
governments have one main job. Protect the people from corporations and others that cause harm. They have lost this ability over the decades so now a change is needed. Fortunately with the www we can transition peacefully together.
It wasn't allways that way after WW2 much of the elites leverage within the west was stalled by some very effective regulation but unfortunately the likes of the Trilateral through modern day properganda what we call today public relations were able to counter attack democracy unfortunately people asumed that because the obvious fasctis dictatorial powers of europe had been defeated and therefore job done we can relax.
He says that corporate interests are winning over, than he says that we need to focus on government levers...politicians has no power...the equation is simple: money = power. So who has the power? Who got more money. Does politicians has money? Nope...so the power is on the hands of big corps....capitalism, corpocracy, you name it, the consequence is the same. I am with Roger, we need a revolution...NOW! We need a socio-economy system which is based on sustainability. If we can't reach it, we will die. "we know its doable" Yea the thing every time happens is that when people go out and the pressure is high enough, politicians change things favouring the people, but shortly after that they will change policies under the carpet slowly, slowly boiling the frog that the frog dont even notice that it is dead...slowly they implement the same policies so at the end we achieved nothing...in the past our ancestory got out and made politician change laws, they implemented max work hours, and retirement and so on, now they are slowly grabs those back... Am sorry but do I see it right? Is there a swastica on those flags?
RH is totally right in that we are heading towards fascism. More catastrophes there are and more living costs go up more fans they also have. Fascists from probably right or in some countries from left side use shamelessly our innate need most of us have to not get involved to create the kind of world where they think they will be the rulers and have the power. Obviously a large part of population in rich countries have lost their hope in their capacity to change even their own lives, never mind society or the system and unfortunately that means billions and billions of humans and animals will die in front of us or maybe we choose governments that figures out ways people are kept in dark about it. Governments have had plenty of practice of how to silence criticism people don't want but needs to hear, even democratic ones. Too many old people are just secretly pleased, that they are old and die soon anyway so they throw the towel and do nothing but probably vote for "strong" leaders. That's how they are conditioned. How to deal with that ever more large population of people?
@@EarthPoets Of course there will be, there will have to be. You can scream at people to go vegan all you want, I agree it's a probably a good thing, but the vast majoirity of the world aren't and won't go vegan. It will need a top down approach.
@@TheColossalBlanket Who's screaming? Oh yes the animals! You must be looking at politicians I can't see across the globe mate, do those magical specs give lottery numbers too, lol? The *only* hope is change by the majority. The rich believe they are immune and will ride it out as long as they can, possibly even ending up on the Moon. As long as we trust the politicians we have zero chance. Your message is the wrong one and will end in disaster.
Elite is problematic idea. Elites are people who get to the top of their fields. They the brilliant personality types. The ruling class like to be in close proximity to them. They are the sports players, the great artists, the best scientists etc. They are the elite group, they mostly do come from privilege and had good nutrition and mostly good opportunities in the system. The ruling class have no brilliance as the Elites do. That's why they cluster around elites. The term elite must not be used to describe the ruling class. They are different forces.
And what really matters is to change property relations, that is ownership of the corporations. That is the real radical change and the Tories, or Labour come to that, won't do that.
Why wouldn't labour listen to you? Good Bladdy question. Remember we had a global movement forming for Climate action and then what happened? Do you even know?
I think labour are so scared of being branded commies or ‘eco zealouts’ (or whatever the right wing press call them) that they wouldn’t touch Hallam with a barge pole. They fear it would be an electoral disaster, and may be right
RH makes predictions all the time. In 2018 he said that millions of people would be dying of hunger in the UK during the next five years. Five years later...
Nothing is beyond politics, I remember XR America and the shutdown of the fourth demand about socioeconomic justice and reparations. Roger is stooping to new lows after backing the UK Conservative party and right-wing media in the ousting of Jeremy Corbyn with his push against ecosocialism and the working classes Burning Pink... sickening stuff.
Please don't blame Hallam, I backed Mr Corbyn because he genuinely believes in a better world but unfortunately the systems within the Labour Party won't allow it! Google the campaign for democracy within the Labour Party started in 1973. Even when we had all member meetings the influence of the PLP was just too effective. The 3rd way PLP need to have their usual answer "ideals are fine but are useless without power" I won't enpower the lesser of two evils...
@joncumberbatch852 during the global rebellion, I remember the fence sitting and as someone from a part of the world badly affected by UK foreign policy the opposition to ideas about climate justice. It is not Roger's fault perhaps, but this seems really depressing after the hope Corbyn represented to those who didn't profit from war.
@@StephenMurcott I fear the right will become the leaders in taking measures to "protect the environment" obviously their environment when everything is going tits up! This reminds me I watched a film last night “Nowhere” on Netflix that gave a pretty accurate example where we are heading unless we do something.
What Zac is describing is oligarchy / white supremacy, ( which oddly enough is the reason he determined his plight was futile ). What Roger is describing is revolution / anarchy. If u want a general idea of what these, quote : "vested interest" are capable of just watch Dennis Potter's "Cold Lazarus" for a reasonable representation.
Jesus I wish I'd had a father such as Roger Hallam. This guy's the real deal in terms of steadfast ambitions.Truth unlimited. ( no disrespect dad ) 👍
Also, i see Roger maintaining his concentration and refusing to slide down into humour and away from the salient point. Powerful display from Roger here.
Pathetic how he became the controlled opposition.
Great to see you Roger. Greetings from Tasmania Australia. We are still doing the work. Cheers Cass
One of the realities facing Conservative MPs is that their constituents often ARE the vested interests that need to be persuaded to change course - not only are they comprised of wealthy landowners (not the same thing as farmers) for whom personal economic gain trumps social, civic or public goods, but they are also the very same people who are either the executives of large corporations, or significant shareholders in those companies, for whom swift profit outweighs sustainable long-term value. It is not as coincidental as Zac implies that this battle is happening under Tory 'leadership'.
I know plenty of right-leaning voters who seem entirely comfortable with continuing to vote for self-serving short-termist policies whilst at the same time claiming to be supportive 'in principle' of the ambitions of people like those on the panel.
Penetrating the hypnotized delusional state in which such people functionally exist is the greatest challenge we face, because without waking them up, the corporate entities that THEY control or influence will not change course. Roger is trying to agitate and accelerate that process, Zac is trying to evolve it - it seems unlikely to me that we have sufficient time for the latter.
The important thing about this great conversation is that all involved were willing to focus on our desperately needed common goals. And that is how it needs to be of course #WeHaveToWinThisOne
Mr Goldsmith completly underestimates the size of the problem of overshoot . there is no government in the world who can do anything about that. is it possible he is trying to calm people down in order to prolong the quiet before the storm?
Brilliant stuff. Roger is on fire here.
We can dream
good for Gabon and Costa Rica. makes me proud. why can't every other country in the world do the same?
Quite enlightening.
Thanks.
UK is a leader in rhetoric.
Do you speak french, chinese, ibo?😢
Luv it ,, thank you all mucho
Goldsmith is intelligent and well-spoken (in that posh patrician Paddy Ashdown public school kind of way) but his confidence that change can be achieved through the current electoral system and with our mass media and political representatives in the pocket of vested interests and international capital, reflects someone living in cloud cuckoo land. Does he seriously expect either the Conservative Party or the Labour Party to be a sufficient agent of change here?
I think unfortunately people like this have to, otherwise to concede ground would challenge their world view and they would capitulate - I think genuinely it's a protection mechanism. Could also be scared of what a revolution can bring in terms of turmoil and uncertainty.
I'm sorry but if Goldsmith want to change systems, rather than tap the conveyer belt with a spanner, spraying oil when required then he's in the wrong party! That party isn't the Labour Party which is a "social democratic" party instead Goldsmith needs to find himself a "democratic socialist" party and yes the order of words does matter!
Yes, he won't fundamentally challenge the power of international capital. The way to do that is not through regulation but by returning the ownership of it to the commons. That requires a revolution.
good one.
I would rather they had questions.
Let's get money out of politics. No big donors putting pressure on MPs to restrict green policy.
Remember him taking the White Supremist cash and collapsing XR?
To do that you have to abolish capitalism
@@yellowgreen5229 Er, okay then!. It only works for the top 1% anyway.
Cosy.
There was no French Revolution without the context of Haiti and the ousting and elimination of the slave masters in the Caribbean.
governments are not needed
A big part of the problem is that we've left it so late, it's difficult to sugar the pill. The demands we make on farming makes its power disproportionate, and they in turn are able to make the kind of demands that reversed the policy that ZG was talking about. That's just food...then there is transport, energy production and so fourth. I fear that Roger Hallam has a grip on reality that Zac does not. His outlook has the air of naive hope and conservatism - not only that, he seemed to keep insisting that Hallam was talking about violent revolution when RH repeated several times that he meant systemic revolution. It won't be a matter of goverment of one colour or another solving things, or the signing of agreements - people appear to find it nigh on impossible to stick to any agreement - by terribly influential and responsible bodies...because events will overtake us. Indeed, this is the central point. If we don't make fundamental changes to the way we live, events will overtake us. The political extremism that RH talks about will be made possible by the fear generated by destabilisation due to climate change. This is why the kind of intransigence that prevents any meaningful change taking place is deeply baffling to me; where are folks going to spend all this cash they've salted away? I really can't foresee anywhere being safe once the anticipated upheaval begins. That's what I call facing facts. Where I would differ from 'survivalists' quite profoundly, is instead of running away, we should band together to find solutions and to confront our politicians with irrevocable truths. Whenever the whining of 4x4 owners becomes voluable, challenge it - insisting we do nothing in the face of quite disturbing evidence really should be revealed as the childish footdragging that it is.
If nations the world over put their heads together and used the scientific expertise that created something like the Hadron collider to address climate change - instead of creating and fighting insane wars everywhere - how much better would our situation be? This is a problem for our species, not just one country.
Finally, their was some piss-taking of popular democracy. But isn't that what local democracy is? Councillors Steve and Bob arguing over road maintenance? Isn't it what both major political parties cleave to when they've run out of things to say .....decentralising power? Roger Hallam laid it on the line finally; the conversation suddenly became real.
stop buying junk, grow your food, and cook your food, that is a start
governments have one main job. Protect the people from corporations and others that cause harm. They have lost this ability over the decades so now a change is needed. Fortunately with the www we can transition peacefully together.
Actually, the opposite is true - the state exists to protect private property rights. The government protects the Capitalists from the labor class.
Antarctica is melting, we running out of time.
Yeah, Labour movement sending a definite message...
Our foreign Affairs minister spends her whole time discussing how wrong we are to focus of military expansion whilst the planet burns.
It's actually too late.
@Roger_Hallam Please set your comms to be Newest First so ppl can have convs and your vids get seen more.
Our governments have little power. Corporates and finance run things ok.
It wasn't allways that way after WW2 much of the elites leverage within the west was stalled by some very effective regulation but unfortunately the likes of the Trilateral through modern day properganda what we call today public relations were able to counter attack democracy unfortunately people asumed that because the obvious fasctis dictatorial powers of europe had been defeated and therefore job done we can relax.
He says that corporate interests are winning over, than he says that we need to focus on government levers...politicians has no power...the equation is simple: money = power. So who has the power? Who got more money. Does politicians has money? Nope...so the power is on the hands of big corps....capitalism, corpocracy, you name it, the consequence is the same. I am with Roger, we need a revolution...NOW! We need a socio-economy system which is based on sustainability. If we can't reach it, we will die.
"we know its doable" Yea the thing every time happens is that when people go out and the pressure is high enough, politicians change things favouring the people, but shortly after that they will change policies under the carpet slowly, slowly boiling the frog that the frog dont even notice that it is dead...slowly they implement the same policies so at the end we achieved nothing...in the past our ancestory got out and made politician change laws, they implemented max work hours, and retirement and so on, now they are slowly grabs those back...
Am sorry but do I see it right? Is there a swastica on those flags?
Outlandish, yes, but true.
True in your crystal ball maybe
There is no crystal ball in my world.
@@jeffsimon9594
Risk revolutionary outcome, or risk ecological collapse outcome. Welcome to the problem.
RH is totally right in that we are heading towards fascism. More catastrophes there are and more living costs go up more fans they also have. Fascists from probably right or in some countries from left side use shamelessly our innate need most of us have to not get involved to create the kind of world where they think they will be the rulers and have the power. Obviously a large part of population in rich countries have lost their hope in their capacity to change even their own lives, never mind society or the system and unfortunately that means billions and billions of humans and animals will die in front of us or maybe we choose governments that figures out ways people are kept in dark about it. Governments have had plenty of practice of how to silence criticism people don't want but needs to hear, even democratic ones. Too many old people are just secretly pleased, that they are old and die soon anyway so they throw the towel and do nothing but probably vote for "strong" leaders. That's how they are conditioned. How to deal with that ever more large population of people?
So how long has Zac been Vegan? If he is not then he is talking out of his money making political rear.
I think we're past criticising people's individual habits. This is systemic and it will take a systemic approach to tackle it.
@@TheColossalBlanket How convenient for you, however there will not be a "systemic approach" so what's your plan B?
@@EarthPoets Of course there will be, there will have to be. You can scream at people to go vegan all you want, I agree it's a probably a good thing, but the vast majoirity of the world aren't and won't go vegan. It will need a top down approach.
@@TheColossalBlanket Who's screaming? Oh yes the animals! You must be looking at politicians I can't see across the globe mate, do those magical specs give lottery numbers too, lol? The *only* hope is change by the majority. The rich believe they are immune and will ride it out as long as they can, possibly even ending up on the Moon. As long as we trust the politicians we have zero chance. Your message is the wrong one and will end in disaster.
@@TheColossalBlanket Who's screaming? Oh yes the 8 Billion+ animals being killed every day!
Here in Canada we have @On2Ottawa
Elite is problematic idea. Elites are people who get to the top of their fields. They the brilliant personality types. The ruling class like to be in close proximity to them. They are the sports players, the great artists, the best scientists etc. They are the elite group, they mostly do come from privilege and had good nutrition and mostly good opportunities in the system. The ruling class have no brilliance as the Elites do. That's why they cluster around elites. The term elite must not be used to describe the ruling class. They are different forces.
Parasite classes like to feed on society and ecosystems.
Was Burtrand Russel part of the elite?
Yes but the term used in this context is well understood to mean the corporate ruling class.
And what really matters is to change property relations, that is ownership of the corporations. That is the real radical change and the Tories, or Labour come to that, won't do that.
I prefer the term ‘illite’ for the ruling class. Elite tennis players are not a problem
Cornel West, watch this space.
Oliver Cromwell is coming!
its impossible
start growing potatoes and you will be able to survive
it is our fault...
Why wouldn't labour listen to you? Good Bladdy question. Remember we had a global movement forming for Climate action and then what happened? Do you even know?
He knows, and I am sure will feel ashamed sooner or later.
Labour don't even listen to their members so why would they! Sir Starmer is establishment. It's simple 😂
I think labour are so scared of being branded commies or ‘eco zealouts’ (or whatever the right wing press call them) that they wouldn’t touch Hallam with a barge pole. They fear it would be an electoral disaster, and may be right
RH makes predictions all the time. In 2018 he said that millions of people would be dying of hunger in the UK during the next five years. Five years later...
The British elite, psychotic or psychopathic?
Nothing is beyond politics, I remember XR America and the shutdown of the fourth demand about socioeconomic justice and reparations. Roger is stooping to new lows after backing the UK Conservative party and right-wing media in the ousting of Jeremy Corbyn with his push against ecosocialism and the working classes Burning Pink... sickening stuff.
Please don't blame Hallam, I backed Mr Corbyn because he genuinely believes in a better world but unfortunately the systems within the Labour Party won't allow it! Google the campaign for democracy within the Labour Party started in 1973. Even when we had all member meetings the influence of the PLP was just too effective. The 3rd way PLP need to have their usual answer "ideals are fine but are useless without power" I won't enpower the lesser of two evils...
@joncumberbatch852 during the global rebellion, I remember the fence sitting and as someone from a part of the world badly affected by UK foreign policy the opposition to ideas about climate justice. It is not Roger's fault perhaps, but this seems really depressing after the hope Corbyn represented to those who didn't profit from war.
@@StephenMurcott I fear the right will become the leaders in taking measures to "protect the environment" obviously their environment when everything is going tits up! This reminds me I watched a film last night “Nowhere” on Netflix that gave a pretty accurate example where we are heading unless we do something.
What Zac is describing is oligarchy / white supremacy, ( which oddly enough is the reason he determined his plight was futile ). What Roger is describing is revolution / anarchy. If u want a general idea of what these, quote : "vested interest" are capable of just watch Dennis Potter's "Cold Lazarus" for a reasonable representation.
its to late
It may be too late, but I want to resist anyway. Because I can’t live with myself if I don’t
dont believe it...
more BS