Pride Before The Fall: Why The Volkswagen Phaeton Was A Sales Disaster
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- In today's video, courtesy of channel fan Barry I finally get to drive the fabled VW Phaeton. What should have been the flagship in the Volkswagen empire, the Phaeton was misunderstood from day one and is now a used bargain - but still people stay away. Are they right to, and how did one of the world's biggest car makers get it so wrong?
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#Volkswagen #Phaeton #vw
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
1:33 VW In The 90s/00s
2:28 Origin of the Phaeton
4:10 Why Barry Bought One
5:42 Phaeton Evolution
7:08 Engine Choices
9:22 The Drive
10:54 The Phaeton's Best Bit
12:01 What Went Wrong?
18:13 Conclusion
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Many years ago I did a tour of the Phaeton factory in Dresden. They take you through the buying process of specifying your car options, and you see the build process, much of it was by hand with small teams working on the major sub components, rather than your whole job just being fitting the left hand headlamp. Then you get to watch the car picker pull a vehicle out of the massive glass cylinder stack of cars. Amazing. There was also a driving sim. Pretty sure this was way before Merc started with this kind of customer experience centres.
I spent some time in Dresden, we were building Bentley Flying Spurs down the same line.
Having owned a Phaeton for 8 years and driven over 100000 miles I watched you report start to finish; I compliment you on an excellent piece of journalism. You have been thorough, informative and accurate in your report. Well done that man!!
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
@@onkarfreshie3127 not a flop in itself either, since it managed to get a second sales life in China, where it outsold audi, mercedes and BMW in this class
I own two W12 GP1 Phaetons and I have to say they have been very good to me. Nowhere near as scary as people make out. 130k and 208k miles and they are still sublime and hardly break a sweat doing jail speed in them even after doing all those miles.
Never understand the whole “looks like a Passat” thing because the B6 A4 looks exactly the same as the A8 of the same generation yet no one bats an eye about those cars
Wow you made a very good point😂I guess people just have favoritism towards car brands. I completely agree with you though
My all time favorite full size luxury car.
4 door Bentley is ugly, Merc w220 isnt half as good as the w140, bmw is ugly as well...
Phaeton just looks well finished and while some ppl dislike the interior to me its the best looking and most comfortable.
Just wish the 3.6 vr6 was easier to find.
@@danielhristov6175In my opinion the Phaeton is really the spiritual successor to the W140. It just has this insane level of build quality and solidity which was lost with the W220. Also I agree the 3.6 VR6 should have been more common; enough power, reliable, smooth and decently fuel efficient. You don’t see many 3.6 Phaeton’s because they were only available in the GP3 and GP4 models which didn’t sell as well as the earlier models.
I have owned a Phaeton for 8 years and driven over 100000 miles. Absolutely love it! luckily have a local VW specialist who knows how to maintain it. Have had no real issues or horrendously large bills like the one you are driving. It has been a joy.
Me thinks Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
😆😆😆
Is It the W12? I’ve been looking to buy one for ages.
Completely agree. We have a 2008 V8 and almost no problems since we bought it in 2011. Only the electric steering wheel adjustment would need replacing at 4000 Swiss Francs, so we do without. I do not agree, as a car buff, that it in any way resembles a Passat, although the design dates from the same time as probably the nicest sexiest Passat design, the B5. It was a great moment in the history of VW, but since dieselgate and the fall of Ferdinand Piech it has lost its mojo rather badly. This is a fabulous long distance cruiser, so quiet and comfortable and in my opinion vastly superior to the shonky rubbish put out by MB and BMW today. A car far superior to an S in fact.
@@christopheripad477 I own a W12 with over 250,000 miles on it, all original by me.
Of course you'd say that, you'll need to sell yours some day....
The boot hinges were made by Campagnolo of Vicenza, the bicycle component manufacturer which was also famous for alloy wheels in the past. We need to see you reviewing a bike with some Campagnolo components James.
If it's not enough that you lycra cnuts pestering roads. Now you trying to get in to a car channel. Just stay away from us, petrolheads. I'm sure that there a plenty of sad channels that can be bothered about crappy pushbikes
See information like these are so interesting to me. I expect reviewer to mention these instead just "how it drives etc"
That's fair, but he's not Daddy Doug. I guess knowing this shows Jay does have an eye for quality.
That’s very interesting! Love stuff like this.
Haha that's mad! I wonder how that ever came about.
£500 to replace a bulb is criminal.
Me thinks Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
Cost me £40 same car too.
😆😆😆
My MOT tester failed a 3-series BMW due to headlamp failure. Main dealer only and £1000. Oh, in the book, 4 hours to fit it as front of car has to be dismantled. He agreed with me: halogen bulbs are enough.
I mean you could do it at home
Jack up both sides. Remove undertray using a screwdriver. Remove inner wheel arch liners. Three bolts each side behind the arch liners. A handful of bolts at the top that secure the bumper to slam panel. The bumper can now be pulled forward and the headlights removed. It’s a 2 hour job start to finish realistically, and requires £10 worth of new plastic fasteners and your bulb. Therefore only the main dealer is charging £500 but even at a normal garage what’s that? £150? If you can DIY it’s absolutely fine.
Agreed it would be but luckily it's much easier and less expensive. You do not need to take the front bumper off. You remove the air boxes from inside the engine bay and then you have direct access to the back of the headlight. The difficult thing is angling the air boxes out. The passenger side is relatively easy. Driver's side is more fiddly. You just have to try different angles. 40 minutes to do both sides max. The procedure is described on VW Vortex online, which is a great resource for Phaeton owners. I've had my Phaeton for 17 years (4.2) and have done this a number of times. The direct replacement bulbs from Sylvania or Phillips cost less than $30.00 on Amazon for a pair. LEDs upgrades from Autoone are about $40.00-$50.00.
My dream car reviewed by one of the greatest car youtubers. Oh boy.
I’ve owned a 2009 V6 TDI for over 4 years. It has now done 115K and has been a great car to own. My usual garage has been able to deal with all the maintenance, having originally gone to a bentley specialist. I’ve had some issues with the wiring loom in the boot but that’s about it. You say it’s steel but all the body panels are actually aluminium. I’ve found part costs have been fine. Good review.
Ahh perfect timing! Was looking at these yesterday as I was looking for an understated luxury car. Searched UA-cam for reviews and opinions yesterday and sadly not many reviews or review I’d trust. Then I get a notification today about your review. What are the chances!
Those cars were built back in an era when manufacturers were not afraid building high complex engines. Nowadays the four banger became the "state of the art" engine.
I miss those times when they were building V10 Diesel engines or W12. Those engines are a piece of art and technology.
I bought a 2012 Phaeton for when it was 3 years old and kept it for 4 years / 60,000 miles. The only reliability issue was an intermittent air conditioning fault in the last few weeks before I sold it. It had routine servicing at a VW dealership in London, and I never paid more than £500 for a service. Tyres, brake discs, tax and insurance all quite pricey. And when an idiot knocked my door mirror off, it was £1,600 to replace. Great car though, especially on the motorway - where it would do 40mpg.
I'm of the mind that vanity projects are no bad thing because it is, regardless of the reason for existence, a pursuit of "excellence" and that pursuit, if carried out truly free from the normal limitations of having to make money, is one of the things that leads to learning, understanding and new developments.
I'm a serial buyer of old luxury cars. The thing that put me off these (as James said) is the total lack of specialists. There are even only a couple of VW dealers who actually have the knowledge to deal with these.
As much as I love the A8 D3, I'll still consider the Phaeton 4.2 or 5.0 TDI(If I can afford one of course), because I always like how understated it looks and the subtle details that differentiate the Passat and it, plus it's unlikely to find another V10 TDI sedan like ever, I just like how unique and quirky it is, I'll definitely try it someday!
James, i believe this is your most perfectly crafted video yet. Its a must watch. Very well done Sir.
I just bought a 2004 Phaeton V8 this summer. Very comfortable and more roomy than my previously owned S-class. Maintenance is about the same as my S-class too. I’m gonna baby this gem. It was built on the same platform as the Bentley Flying Spur.
if u r in the UK, u should get the TDI. If in the US, the TDI is not available here, I would only get the W12. One has to own a 12 cylinder car, even if it is a W and not a V12, once in your life.
I've heard that the V8 version is much more reliable than the W12, the 4.2 V8 had even won an engine award! And that's what makes the B7 RS4 reliable too
@@henryshu6265 the TDI version should be utterly, bulletproof reliable AND much more fuel efficient than the V8 and esp the W12. If you want the V8, why get this POS and NOT A DIVINE S CLASS?
@@anastassiosperakis2869 I hear you, honestly if I want the V8, I'll definitely choose the W221 S500(possibly with AMG exterior pack)
Me too.
I got this Rare spec.
Heat & cool
Massage seats in Rear.
2010 Mocca brown at 55k owned by a Dr.
For £6.5k.
Wow Bargain!!!
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
You missed out the
Infamous VW
2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans.
So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
The Phaeton is beautiful beyond beasure. Especially the interior. If it wasnt such a gas hog and all the expensive extras like air suspension etc I would drive one gladly.
Yesss! Very underrated car. I had s-classes, several 7 series, a8s, xj350 and still loved my old GP2, basic 3.2, dead reliable even after 340k km, mint condition and great ride.
Im looking to buy one again. But 4.2 this time. :)
After owning a W12 Spur & E250, I had the urge to own a barge that equalled the W12,
Hence the 3.oTDI Phaeton I have now.
As James says in the video, the ride handling quality & build quality is most definitely next to the Rolls Royce.
"Champagne motoring for Lemonade money."
The 4.2 isn't very reliable though. 5.0tdi is a better all-rounder
No such thing as underrated. Everything is as it should be....
I will own a phaeton at some point. This video has made me respect its engineering even more
In 2004 I remember closely examining a 12 cylinder version of this car in the dealership showroom in New York. I liked it. Not sure I ever saw another one. Parked or moving
I'm glad you did this review. Just last week I almost bought a 3.2V6 (2004) Phaeton from a garage in Crewe for £3,495.00 Perhaps someone was test driving it because when I arrived it was conspicuous by it's absence. Seems like I dodged a bullet.
These are great! My pal had a 2008 TDI and the air suspension did a great job on the rural roads around Helensburgh.
I will always remember my ride sharing journey in a Phaeton through Germany as a student, back when it was fairly new. Such a great long distance car.
Always called these the Passat XL. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
I remember working at a VW dealers in 2004/5 and these were coming in with numerous faults … only one technician was qualified to work on them … the customers were seldom happy with them & they just seemed like a nightmare at the time … I’m amazed to learn that they went all the way to 2016
new cars have problems that get ironed out over the years if you worked in the dealership you should know this unless you were the prostiture on a saturday night
I saw one rolling around Los Angeles years ago with a Jetta badges on it. Confusing but cool! Very few people caught on.
Good review. Glad to see we are back to good quality commentary rather than just revving engines and thrashing a car up and down a country A road for no apparent reason
Great video as usual James. I even enjoyed the drive by of the Focus!!!
Very cool video and sensible advice. It is interesting how well the looks of this car have aged.
I had the V10 5.0 for about a year... what a stunning car, I miss it terribly. I didn't have any problems with it - but I could tell they were looming, so got rid of it. If I had deeper pockets I would have kept it, and given it a cheeky remap.
The biggest problem I had was the coating on the glass meant that mobile and satnav reception was terrible inside the car.
I remember when VW introduced the Phaeton and Touareg they were designed to herald in a new super-luxury sub-brand with unheard of benefits like roadside assistance where a technician would be helicoptered to you within five minutes of the SOS button being pressed (I exaggerate but it was something crazy like that) and other really serious luxury perks. Only a subset of VW dealers were allowed to sell these two models and they had to invest in dedicated facilities and technicians and a special Phaeton plinth in the showroom. When I visited the Dresden factory Phaetons were being hand-assembled on the same production line as Bentleys. Needless to say, as sales didn't materialise (for the Phaeton at least) all the super-luxury support stuff quietly fell away and Touareg was opened up to the whole VW network to sell. I have run the 3.0 and V10 diesels, 3.2 and W12 petrols and they were all shockingly good, coming from nowhere and jumping ahead of the S-Class and 7-series of the day, massively over-engineered but somewhat troublesome to begin with due to the complexity. I think they had something like 40 ECUs when the average car might have had 5 or 6 at that time. I generally have a soft-spot for Q-cars, it's a shame it didn't work out.
I had 3 Phaetons consecutively, used in my chauffeur service company. They were all 3.0 turbo diesels . Great car, all LWB models. I eventually got into an Audi A8, LWB. The Phaetons were great cars, drove well, with plenty of room. The problem was Particulate Filter. I had one of each model upgrade. Each one had problems with theParticulate Filters. On a run down to London of around 200 miles, then half a day in London traffic, Particulate Filter light would come on. This meant I had to find a dual carriageway set the tiptronic to4th gear at 55mph and the filter would clear. If I did not do this quickly enough, It would go into Limp Mode. A real pain, so I eventually got rid and bought the Audi A8 LWB. Better car, never goes wrong !!
Great video! Thank you for the shoutout to me and the Phaeton Owners UK group :)
Hi Callum
The repair costs mentioned in this video are super high?
I just got one 6 months ago, removed the DPF and remapped for £400. Bulbs done at
£50.
@@onkarfreshie3127 Yeah I agree that the bills mentioned are extortionate. I’m not the owner of this car but I run the Phaeton Owners UK group - it completely depends where you take the cars to have work done. I’ve now owned Phaetons for 4 years and have completed most repairs myself. They’re not that expensive to own
@@YouCallum
FANTASTIC.
Just the chap I need to share my Phaeton stuff with.
I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry, also worried about,
"Where to park issues?"
My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & it is "Bentley Class."
Without the Super high running costs of the Bentley.
Removed the
DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job.
Paid only £6500 for a 3.0tdi Phaeton 2010,
6 months ago with 55k & rear massage heat & cooled seats + freeview tv. In a Mocca brown.
Owned by a Dr.
Super Rare Options. Just missing the LWB & Sunroof.
Just being a nerdy now.
🤓🧐🤓🧐
450.000 km on my Phaeton, didn't have a serious break until then, which is crazy to think about, but after that.....Well lets say we might as well build a new car xD. However, the best car ever owned, motor was still going very well, though became quite lazy, but other parts started failing one by one, it was not worth maintaining anymore. It will stay in my heart forever
Here in Ireland I passed out my taxi exam in 2012. Phaeton V6 diesel was towards the top of my list. Couldn't find one. Says it all. Still, cool.
It is interesting the British take on the 1990s VW car line verses the states. VW had always been a car line of the 1960s and hippies. By the time I was in high school in the 1990s in Oklahoma, I never saw new vw cars. When I was shopping for my first car, I really wanted a VR6 VW Corrado. My dad refused saying that VW were shit and bought me a 1994 Pontiac grand am...it lasted 18 months. It was not until the new vw beetle that I thought about buying a vw...and they were most popular model around while I was in college. I remember when the phaeton came out and really liked it. Great review, keep up the good work!
Back when VW were adventurous!
Speaking of which would you review a W12 Touareg if having the chance?
I know of one person who owns one.
That's when the greatest invention are made. You have to be a risk taker to move forward. Otherwise, you just stagnate.
Audio at the start is weird?
I think if you watch a longer video right after it’s uploaded the yt genious copyright tool is still going through it to make sure no Eagles songs are in it and messes up the sound for a while.
Sound Picasso
It was a known problem that when driving the Phaeton at low speeds the cabin can be filled with the sounds of tweeting birds. They never could fix it even after several recalls.
@@dkerr200 I think it only affects the cars with the canary pack
Yep, one immediately recognises the unmistakable sound of the vw clean diesel exhaust tweeter option.
Haha you kept the focus drive by in at 16.00 love it
My father used to own a earlier example of the w12 version. It was just superb, and it tops at 186mph without limiter it will go over 200. The real problem with the car is the spark plugs of the old w12 engine is somewhat problematic and it’s very expensive to replace labor wise plus the gearbox gave up regularly after 3 years the car is in the shop more often than on the road which is why my father get rid of the car.
VW sent me a lovely sales brochure for the Phaeton at launch, I still have it but no way I'd have even thought about buying one at the time. Massive depreciation seemed the obvious downside that could not be ignored.
You, Alex Kersten, Matt from High Peak.
Top gear re-booted and back to its roots.
Calling it now.
I would be more upset about the gauges not being vertical when normal, but they all seem to be in the same angle when normal, so it's not bad, just rakish.
I used to deliver these when they came out and I fell in love with them.
Great job 👍
Would love to see a Vectra VXR on the channel. Very underrated cars.
I remember these coming and for some reason being giddy with excitement!!! Must have been the name or something 🤔 I have to say its the identical looks to a Passat that really kills it for me. Here's another brother from another mother VW to review James.....the Passat CC 😐
Excellent video James! I’ve always thought these were cool but being in the US, you NEVER see them. Neat piece of automotive history imo. Cheers!
Awesome car. Drove the W12 when it came out. Deserved more recognition.
I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry also worried about, "where to park issues?"
My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & is my everyday car now. It's corner handling & road handling equals the "Bentley Class."
Removed the
DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job.
Both Front bulbs were done for £40.
I think Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
I have a 1993 Mercedes W124 300E - 100,000 miles. Number 7 older Mercedes that I have owned since 1978. None bought new. I am now 75 so this is likely the last car I will own.
These non-computer cars have an enviable reputation for reliability and build quality and my experience so far bears that out.
New cars leave me cold!!
Please kind Sir,
If you ever & I mean EVER need to sell your beloved Mercedes,
Please let me know.
A humble request.
Enjoy in the meantime.
Kind Regards
Only yesterday I was asking myself why you didnt review a Phaeton yet. An upcoming classic with, at least in Germany and an eastern europe, a loving fanbase already.
Too bad your example doesnt have any of the extras that make the car worth buying.
I got a good chuckle that you included the Ford focus drive by Jay 😂
Glad you enjoyed!
@@JayEmmOnCars Complete with a big poppy 😆
🤔 I remember the Phaeton for a brief time. Yes it was quite the exciting thing to see on the road, but only us car guys could tell the difference between it and the Passat.
Hey Jay, speaking of the W12, should it be possible to get a hold of a Volkswagen W12 Nardo for review, I would much like to see that happen. Cheers. ✌🏻🇺🇸
I quite like the Phaeton, it's all the car you'll ever need in a VERY understated package. If you know cars then you get it, but if you don't care about what the average Joe or neighbour thinks its great. I seriously looked at getting one, but it's very difficult to get one in a decent condition outside of the very top price bracket.....like an S class really.
The explanation for the Phaeton is quite simple: Ferdinand Piëch had such a huge presence in the company as Il Padrone assoluto that nobody could contradict him. The car was not an internal tussle with Audi nor a proof of VW's design prowess but Piëch's very bad idea that nobody was in a position to gainsay.
In wasn't a bad idea. They just didn't know how to segment it and sell it.
Love your program dude it takes my mind off crashing bond markets therefore our pensions!
Focus shot @ 16:00
Well played Jay.
Well played.
😂😂
A sales failure it might be, but still one of the most important cars in VAG's history
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
You missed out the
Infamous VW
2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans.
So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
A flop is not the right word. The inchassis of the Phaeton was used in the hugely successful Bentley Continental Gen I Other offsprings in the VW concern are Passat CC etc.
So true.
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
Love the Autostadt. Where the sausages in the restaurant have part numbers. Very nice they are too !
A good video enjoying the content on the channel 👌👌
0:21 The timing of that piece to camera, talking about the jewel that shouldn't have flopped while being overtaken by the turd that should have flopped but didn't.
I've had a couple of 3 litre TDI Phaetons, rear 3 quarter is the best angle. They were cheap and reasonably frugal and much better trimmed than a 730d, S320 of the era. As you say, parts are a nightmare and they suffer from water ingress into the wiring looms at the scuttle, as also affects early Bentley Conti GTS - this is the most costly fault to remedy especially if the ECUs get fried. I'd have an XJ X350 of the same value any day over a Phaeton
The VW Phaeton was a beautiful looking car.
A real statement for VW.
I was disappointed it never got any traction in the American market.
That car was beautifully made.
It was neutral which means it ages well. It could come out today and still fit in.
Was it a failure though? In hindsight it’s clear to me that it was really a test bed for the Bentley flying spur and others. Vw had a lot more money to play with than Bentley
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
You missed out the
Infamous VW
2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans.
So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
@@onkarfreshie3127 I think it’s safe to say that the car as a product was a flop but the platform as a product was a big success.
The rumor that i heard is that VW wanted to build a new car for their newly purchase Bentley but couldn’t get the necessary budget for R&D. So the phaeton project is born which in turn produce the Continental GT, Flying Spur which basically secures Bentley future.
It's not an unbelievable tale - the Passat W8 was essentially a proving ground for the Bentley W16, and this W12 was another step on
Hi James would love if you would do a review on the MK7(.5) Golf GTD. Would be nice to hear what you tink about a sporty diesel. Cheers!
Very interesting and entertaining video, thanks. But how does the car now get through an MOT with its DPF and EGR removed?!
Lovely drive by shot at 15:59, well focused
Had 3 Phaetons, 2 LWB and a shorty. Fantastic cars. They did have a habit of corroding, not through rust but where steel met aluminium, pretty much all around the car. Avoid the V10 as its noisier and no faster than the V6 diesel. The V12 is hugely thirsty and still no improvement over the V6
Much of the Phaeton was repurposed by Bentley to become the 1st generation Bentley Continental GT. They even kept the same steering wheel.
I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry also worried about,
"where to park issues?"
My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & is my everyday car now. It's corner handling & road handling equals the "Bentley Class."
Removed the
DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job.
Both Front bulbs were done for £40.
I think Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
I took the GT from 2005 and shortly after a 2014. I’d always wanted a Bentley, and yes, they were fabulous, but just missed the mark for me. Not quite special enough to warrant the worry, like you say. Shame, but those engines were sweet (both W12 versions).
At 16:00 minutes , that aforementioned Ford Focus does its drive-by. I think he even flashed his lights!
Yeah, I also noticed it and was about to comment. I think Jays chucking an Easter Egg into the vid for a bit of a laugh! 😄
Glad someone appreciated it
James, please find out what the spray cleaner the owner is using on his interior and then confiscate it from him and chuck it in the bin!
Thanks... A lot... the last two videos (this and the Alpine) have both been about cars I desperately try to resist buying on a monthly basis. Having reminders in video form really doesn't help my TVR fund.
There'll be a TVR video soon!
Well at least that will keep me somewhat on track! I still enjoyed the videos even though they tempt me to be bad, thanks!
The VW badge was the problem.
The BMW 7 series and Merc S class customer saw a VW as a downgrade
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
Very interesting and informative!
As far as I know you were able to get the VR6 Phaeton with a manual gearbox, although I don't know if that was available in the UK. There is a few for sale in Germany.
And FWD to boot.
And also a W8 version 😃🇩🇪 I live in Denmark..
Back in the day I saw both and W8 and the W12, in the city I live in…
Massive car😎🤟🏻🇩🇪
@@audimetallica There was no W8 version.
@@Inflator82 google is your friend ;)
Then lets agree on a V8 version..
Would love to see a video on the VW Touareg R50
I drove a W12 Phaeton in early 2004 as a company car delivery driver. I collected it from the head office of the Halifax building society and drove it the 200 miles back to base. The seats are amazing - 20 years ago they had more little electric motors in them than most cars! The performance was pretty epic too, and it was enormously comfy and quiet (and pretty enormous on some of the smaller roads). After that, I always wanted to own one, but a friend ran a small fleet of luxury cabs, and had a few - they were always breaking. When the regular V6 diesel breaks loads and costs a huge amount to fix, you definitely think twice about the idea of a W12. Wish I had had the money and balls to buy one though- it would be the car to have for long distance driving.
My final conclusion is the same as yours, "Stick with the S class (and not with the unreliable 7 or the A8)". The fact that the Phaeton looks just like a Passat is NOT a drawback, many people who want a Phaeton are not snobs, they intentionally want a very understated exterior to hide the luxury inside. In the US, because it was such a flop and only a few were sold, it's not even cheap to get a used Phaeton, esp the Bentley-like W12. In the UK they apparently sold a 6 cyl TDI, which, for most people, is by far the best one to buy, and if it is anything like my Merc TDIs, it should be totally reliable AND give you outstanding MPG compared to the V8 and W12 petrol engines.
Well said.
But NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
I sampled a cooking v6tdi which was pretty nice at the time, and then I drove the v10, now THAT was a real weapon. What really pit me off is the complexity of the thing, and horrendous bills to keep it alive, at least on the earlier ones.
Major expense for suspension, servicing, headlights etc....
Think the v10 was a better bet because most of the mechanicals were gear driven
What an excellent concept, pity it did not take off.
I bought a nice sample with low kms in Germany for 5500 euros. Affordable and great to drive. Unfortunately, the top speed remained at 140 kilometers per hour, because both turbos were broken. The repair would have cost around 5,000 euros.
With beoken turbos u should have bought it much cheaper.
In the future i will buy one of these, probably with the 3.2 VR6
Funny thing is with the VR6: they mounted it vertically
Sight of one of the many Phaetons on the roads in and around Shanghai always raised a chuckle with my Chinese friends. “Phaeton” is a homophone for “fei tun”, which is a slang term for “big fat a55”.
My favorite VAG projects from the "Piech Vanity era" are the Audi A2 3l and the Vw Touareg, but this isnt bad as well.
I would love an understated car like this. Would not mind at all if people confused it for a Passat. Just means the one who catches what it is will be most likely interesting. Making small talk worth it.
Seems like you probably want the dealer to make the same mistake - charge you Passat prices for a Phaeton service.
I sat for about an hour going back and forth with the sales manager on a w12 version in 2002. It was really impressive. And for around 50k, a deal. But, delivery, and a few gray areas covered in that hour, had me just ordering a maxed option Passat wagon. Which, I absolutely loved. I had performance machines, so the Passat only had to please my engineering senses and feel. I was maybe my favorite commuter car ever, but was stupidly unreliable. Towed three times in 26k miles.
B5.5 ? What engine?
@@Bogdan00 W12
@@kevatut23Maybe w8
@@YOCOSMINMAX16 no, w12
I pay luxury money and get a peoples car , a volkswagen in German .
For that money I want no car " for the people " , I want an Elitewagen .
Loving the early pink floydesque intro.
Great video james 👍 👏
In america the dealers repair costs were astronomical and consumers ran away rather quickly and resale pricing plummeted.. pretty much true of all german luxury cars...
Oh the pain of taking the front bumper off just for a headlight. I think they got that idea from the same era Passat. So it really is like a bigger Passat after all.
Probably shouldn't mention the DPF removal. It's illegal for on road use in the UK and can fail an MOT if detected.
There was also a manual version with a diesel engine.
But very few were built.
Yes it was a flop for VW brand but not for the VW group! The amount of cars that were built on this platform sold well. As You said Bentley especially.
Well said, NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
The boot mechanism got me a bit excited. Do love nice hinge.
Wait till it fails. Horrendous bills to fix it.
@@drd6416 why should it fail if maintained?
I love this car but I'm too scared of those air suspensions and all the fancy stuff to brake. still love my Superb, less to care about :)
A friend of mine bought a perfect 2005 example about three years ago for £900.
It cost him nearly that to fly over to London and drive it back to Ireland!
Peugeot 607 3.0 V6 with all the goods was a bit similar car as the Phaeton. It didn't have the correct badge so it wasn't "accepted" in the luxury car segment. But in the best trim it sure was a good car. Not quite up to Phaeton V12-level but right up there with A6 Audis, etc. Just think about it... almost all brands had a model for this segment in the 70's and 80's. Ford Granada 2.8i Ghia, Opel Senator/Monza, Fiat Croma, Citroen CX/XM, Alfa 164, Saab 9000, etc. Now it belongs MB, BMW and Audi. They have total monopoly in the class. I'm not even sure if Jaguar continues with the XF in the future.