CarVertical: The History Checking Service Use This Link or Code "JM20" for a Discount! www.carvertical.com/gb/landing/v3?b=1e4c9523&a=JayEmm&voucher=jm20&chan=JM
Having owned a Phaeton for 8 years and driven over 100000 miles I watched you report start to finish; I compliment you on an excellent piece of journalism. You have been thorough, informative and accurate in your report. Well done that man!!
NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
@@Sub-Kuch13.13 not a flop in itself either, since it managed to get a second sales life in China, where it outsold audi, mercedes and BMW in this class
Many years ago I did a tour of the Phaeton factory in Dresden. They take you through the buying process of specifying your car options, and you see the build process, much of it was by hand with small teams working on the major sub components, rather than your whole job just being fitting the left hand headlamp. Then you get to watch the car picker pull a vehicle out of the massive glass cylinder stack of cars. Amazing. There was also a driving sim. Pretty sure this was way before Merc started with this kind of customer experience centres.
I went there with my father to pick up our phaeton from the factory What an amazing experience it was! I still have the picture when we stood there with our lovely new car What a pity I loved it
I have owned a Phaeton for 8 years and driven over 100000 miles. Absolutely love it! luckily have a local VW specialist who knows how to maintain it. Have had no real issues or horrendously large bills like the one you are driving. It has been a joy.
Completely agree. We have a 2008 V8 and almost no problems since we bought it in 2011. Only the electric steering wheel adjustment would need replacing at 4000 Swiss Francs, so we do without. I do not agree, as a car buff, that it in any way resembles a Passat, although the design dates from the same time as probably the nicest sexiest Passat design, the B5. It was a great moment in the history of VW, but since dieselgate and the fall of Ferdinand Piech it has lost its mojo rather badly. This is a fabulous long distance cruiser, so quiet and comfortable and in my opinion vastly superior to the shonky rubbish put out by MB and BMW today. A car far superior to an S in fact.
I own two W12 GP1 Phaetons and I have to say they have been very good to me. Nowhere near as scary as people make out. 130k and 208k miles and they are still sublime and hardly break a sweat doing jail speed in them even after doing all those miles. Never understand the whole “looks like a Passat” thing because the B6 A4 looks exactly the same as the A8 of the same generation yet no one bats an eye about those cars
My all time favorite full size luxury car. 4 door Bentley is ugly, Merc w220 isnt half as good as the w140, bmw is ugly as well... Phaeton just looks well finished and while some ppl dislike the interior to me its the best looking and most comfortable. Just wish the 3.6 vr6 was easier to find.
@@danielhristov6175In my opinion the Phaeton is really the spiritual successor to the W140. It just has this insane level of build quality and solidity which was lost with the W220. Also I agree the 3.6 VR6 should have been more common; enough power, reliable, smooth and decently fuel efficient. You don’t see many 3.6 Phaeton’s because they were only available in the GP3 and GP4 models which didn’t sell as well as the earlier models.
The boot hinges were made by Campagnolo of Vicenza, the bicycle component manufacturer which was also famous for alloy wheels in the past. We need to see you reviewing a bike with some Campagnolo components James.
If it's not enough that you lycra cnuts pestering roads. Now you trying to get in to a car channel. Just stay away from us, petrolheads. I'm sure that there a plenty of sad channels that can be bothered about crappy pushbikes
I’ve owned a 2009 V6 TDI for over 4 years. It has now done 115K and has been a great car to own. My usual garage has been able to deal with all the maintenance, having originally gone to a bentley specialist. I’ve had some issues with the wiring loom in the boot but that’s about it. You say it’s steel but all the body panels are actually aluminium. I’ve found part costs have been fine. Good review.
I bought a 2012 Phaeton for when it was 3 years old and kept it for 4 years / 60,000 miles. The only reliability issue was an intermittent air conditioning fault in the last few weeks before I sold it. It had routine servicing at a VW dealership in London, and I never paid more than £500 for a service. Tyres, brake discs, tax and insurance all quite pricey. And when an idiot knocked my door mirror off, it was £1,600 to replace. Great car though, especially on the motorway - where it would do 40mpg.
I just bought a 2004 Phaeton V8 this summer. Very comfortable and more roomy than my previously owned S-class. Maintenance is about the same as my S-class too. I’m gonna baby this gem. It was built on the same platform as the Bentley Flying Spur.
if u r in the UK, u should get the TDI. If in the US, the TDI is not available here, I would only get the W12. One has to own a 12 cylinder car, even if it is a W and not a V12, once in your life.
I've heard that the V8 version is much more reliable than the W12, the 4.2 V8 had even won an engine award! And that's what makes the B7 RS4 reliable too
@@henryshu6265 the TDI version should be utterly, bulletproof reliable AND much more fuel efficient than the V8 and esp the W12. If you want the V8, why get this POS and NOT A DIVINE S CLASS?
Me too. I got this Rare spec. Heat & cool Massage seats in Rear. 2010 Mocca brown at 55k owned by a Dr. For £6.5k. Wow Bargain!!! NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY. You missed out the Infamous VW 2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans. So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
I'm a serial buyer of old luxury cars. The thing that put me off these (as James said) is the total lack of specialists. There are even only a couple of VW dealers who actually have the knowledge to deal with these.
Ahh perfect timing! Was looking at these yesterday as I was looking for an understated luxury car. Searched UA-cam for reviews and opinions yesterday and sadly not many reviews or review I’d trust. Then I get a notification today about your review. What are the chances!
I remember when VW introduced the Phaeton and Touareg they were designed to herald in a new super-luxury sub-brand with unheard of benefits like roadside assistance where a technician would be helicoptered to you within five minutes of the SOS button being pressed (I exaggerate but it was something crazy like that) and other really serious luxury perks. Only a subset of VW dealers were allowed to sell these two models and they had to invest in dedicated facilities and technicians and a special Phaeton plinth in the showroom. When I visited the Dresden factory Phaetons were being hand-assembled on the same production line as Bentleys. Needless to say, as sales didn't materialise (for the Phaeton at least) all the super-luxury support stuff quietly fell away and Touareg was opened up to the whole VW network to sell. I have run the 3.0 and V10 diesels, 3.2 and W12 petrols and they were all shockingly good, coming from nowhere and jumping ahead of the S-Class and 7-series of the day, massively over-engineered but somewhat troublesome to begin with due to the complexity. I think they had something like 40 ECUs when the average car might have had 5 or 6 at that time. I generally have a soft-spot for Q-cars, it's a shame it didn't work out.
I'm of the mind that vanity projects are no bad thing because it is, regardless of the reason for existence, a pursuit of "excellence" and that pursuit, if carried out truly free from the normal limitations of having to make money, is one of the things that leads to learning, understanding and new developments.
As much as I love the A8 D3, I'll still consider the Phaeton 4.2 or 5.0 TDI(If I can afford one of course), because I always like how understated it looks and the subtle details that differentiate the Passat and it, plus it's unlikely to find another V10 TDI sedan like ever, I just like how unique and quirky it is, I'll definitely try it someday!
My MOT tester failed a 3-series BMW due to headlamp failure. Main dealer only and £1000. Oh, in the book, 4 hours to fit it as front of car has to be dismantled. He agreed with me: halogen bulbs are enough.
Jack up both sides. Remove undertray using a screwdriver. Remove inner wheel arch liners. Three bolts each side behind the arch liners. A handful of bolts at the top that secure the bumper to slam panel. The bumper can now be pulled forward and the headlights removed. It’s a 2 hour job start to finish realistically, and requires £10 worth of new plastic fasteners and your bulb. Therefore only the main dealer is charging £500 but even at a normal garage what’s that? £150? If you can DIY it’s absolutely fine.
Agreed it would be but luckily it's much easier and less expensive. You do not need to take the front bumper off. You remove the air boxes from inside the engine bay and then you have direct access to the back of the headlight. The difficult thing is angling the air boxes out. The passenger side is relatively easy. Driver's side is more fiddly. You just have to try different angles. 40 minutes to do both sides max. The procedure is described on VW Vortex online, which is a great resource for Phaeton owners. I've had my Phaeton for 17 years (4.2) and have done this a number of times. The direct replacement bulbs from Sylvania or Phillips cost less than $30.00 on Amazon for a pair. LEDs upgrades from Autoone are about $40.00-$50.00.
Hi Callum The repair costs mentioned in this video are super high? I just got one 6 months ago, removed the DPF and remapped for £400. Bulbs done at £50.
@@Sub-Kuch13.13 Yeah I agree that the bills mentioned are extortionate. I’m not the owner of this car but I run the Phaeton Owners UK group - it completely depends where you take the cars to have work done. I’ve now owned Phaetons for 4 years and have completed most repairs myself. They’re not that expensive to own
@@YouCallum FANTASTIC. Just the chap I need to share my Phaeton stuff with. I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry, also worried about, "Where to park issues?" My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & it is "Bentley Class." Without the Super high running costs of the Bentley. Removed the DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job. Paid only £6500 for a 3.0tdi Phaeton 2010, 6 months ago with 55k & rear massage heat & cooled seats + freeview tv. In a Mocca brown. Owned by a Dr. Super Rare Options. Just missing the LWB & Sunroof. Just being a nerdy now. 🤓🧐🤓🧐
I think if you watch a longer video right after it’s uploaded the yt genious copyright tool is still going through it to make sure no Eagles songs are in it and messes up the sound for a while.
It was a known problem that when driving the Phaeton at low speeds the cabin can be filled with the sounds of tweeting birds. They never could fix it even after several recalls.
Yesss! Very underrated car. I had s-classes, several 7 series, a8s, xj350 and still loved my old GP2, basic 3.2, dead reliable even after 340k km, mint condition and great ride. Im looking to buy one again. But 4.2 this time. :)
After owning a W12 Spur & E250, I had the urge to own a barge that equalled the W12, Hence the 3.oTDI Phaeton I have now. As James says in the video, the ride handling quality & build quality is most definitely next to the Rolls Royce. "Champagne motoring for Lemonade money."
I'm glad you did this review. Just last week I almost bought a 3.2V6 (2004) Phaeton from a garage in Crewe for £3,495.00 Perhaps someone was test driving it because when I arrived it was conspicuous by it's absence. Seems like I dodged a bullet.
In 2004 I remember closely examining a 12 cylinder version of this car in the dealership showroom in New York. I liked it. Not sure I ever saw another one. Parked or moving
My father used to own a earlier example of the w12 version. It was just superb, and it tops at 186mph without limiter it will go over 200. The real problem with the car is the spark plugs of the old w12 engine is somewhat problematic and it’s very expensive to replace labor wise plus the gearbox gave up regularly after 3 years the car is in the shop more often than on the road which is why my father get rid of the car.
I had 3 Phaetons consecutively, used in my chauffeur service company. They were all 3.0 turbo diesels . Great car, all LWB models. I eventually got into an Audi A8, LWB. The Phaetons were great cars, drove well, with plenty of room. The problem was Particulate Filter. I had one of each model upgrade. Each one had problems with theParticulate Filters. On a run down to London of around 200 miles, then half a day in London traffic, Particulate Filter light would come on. This meant I had to find a dual carriageway set the tiptronic to4th gear at 55mph and the filter would clear. If I did not do this quickly enough, It would go into Limp Mode. A real pain, so I eventually got rid and bought the Audi A8 LWB. Better car, never goes wrong !!
I drove with my new bride from England to Germany a few years ago to participate in an Expo at Leipzig, we then travelled to Dresden where we stayed in accommodation across the road from the transparent factory. I did see the VW logo but did not realise at the time it was the Phaeton production line. I had not heard of the Phaeton.
I had the V10 5.0 for about a year... what a stunning car, I miss it terribly. I didn't have any problems with it - but I could tell they were looming, so got rid of it. If I had deeper pockets I would have kept it, and given it a cheeky remap. The biggest problem I had was the coating on the glass meant that mobile and satnav reception was terrible inside the car.
The explanation for the Phaeton is quite simple: Ferdinand Piëch had such a huge presence in the company as Il Padrone assoluto that nobody could contradict him. The car was not an internal tussle with Audi nor a proof of VW's design prowess but Piëch's very bad idea that nobody was in a position to gainsay.
Yes! One of my dream cars. I own a 5.0 V10 TDI LWB and it drives absolutely amazing. But as any Phaeton it definitely has it's issues like a broken door-lock and broken Door handles. However I can forgive all of it' flaws every time I drive it. Also I do think it looks pretty impressive, although mine is slightly lowered on 19 inch 275 wheels an tires and has a VW-Individual full dark-grey and red leather interior (every surface is covered in leather). Ultimately though, anyone buying a phaeton needs to be ready to afford the "intensive care" the car needs, or be willing to do the work themselves.
Those cars were built back in an era when manufacturers were not afraid building high complex engines. Nowadays the four banger became the "state of the art" engine. I miss those times when they were building V10 Diesel engines or W12. Those engines are a piece of art and technology.
The Phaeton is beautiful beyond beasure. Especially the interior. If it wasnt such a gas hog and all the expensive extras like air suspension etc I would drive one gladly.
I quite like the Phaeton, it's all the car you'll ever need in a VERY understated package. If you know cars then you get it, but if you don't care about what the average Joe or neighbour thinks its great. I seriously looked at getting one, but it's very difficult to get one in a decent condition outside of the very top price bracket.....like an S class really.
VW sent me a lovely sales brochure for the Phaeton at launch, I still have it but no way I'd have even thought about buying one at the time. Massive depreciation seemed the obvious downside that could not be ignored.
I've had a couple of 3 litre TDI Phaetons, rear 3 quarter is the best angle. They were cheap and reasonably frugal and much better trimmed than a 730d, S320 of the era. As you say, parts are a nightmare and they suffer from water ingress into the wiring looms at the scuttle, as also affects early Bentley Conti GTS - this is the most costly fault to remedy especially if the ECUs get fried. I'd have an XJ X350 of the same value any day over a Phaeton
the car was successful in China was purely because the brand has an invincible, unconditional brand loyalty there. VW was introduced in China back in 1983 for their Passat B2, and it was the ONLY western modern car available in China back then (competitors was soviet cars), so it became THE de facto luxury, high quality brand for the most of the Chinese people for decades, and it still is now. In other words, Chinese will buy anything VW makes
I remember working at a VW dealers in 2004/5 and these were coming in with numerous faults … only one technician was qualified to work on them … the customers were seldom happy with them & they just seemed like a nightmare at the time … I’m amazed to learn that they went all the way to 2016
new cars have problems that get ironed out over the years if you worked in the dealership you should know this unless you were the prostiture on a saturday night
If you buy a well maintained one, I doubt one needs to worry about spending too much money on these. My dad bought one from 2011 a few years back and it has been working flawlessly since, only needed regular maintenance. The paint will bubble up on the doors though, that is a guarantee.
@@bartismoellis1052 The paint bubbling up is a common problem with the Phaeton in particular. It's not rust, the paint simply comes off the aluminium door. VW has been sued over this.
This car was released when I was a teenager. At the time, I had a subscription to Motor Trend magazine. They used to include a new car buyer's guide at the back of each issue. Nothing too in depth, but it highlighted things like dimensions, power, price, etc. I didn't know a ton about cars back then but i remember looking through those buyer's guides and thinking that the Phaeton didn't make sense. I mean, here's a brand that has cars ranging from 20-35k US and then the Phaeton, which was a tick over 100k. Looking at the car now and understanding what they are and what they were meant to be, the price makes more sense but the perception of the car was always going to suffer when it's being sold on the same lot as the Beetle.
NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY. You missed out the Infamous VW 2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans. So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
As a satisfied second-hand Phaeton owner, i completely disagree with your judgement on the Phaeton. It is really not all that expensive to maintain. Your local handyman garage can do almost anything. You DON't need to go to the VW dealership. It doesn't matter if you have a Pheaton or a Audi A8, or a Mercedes S-Class, if you go to the brand's garage you are going to PAY. And in today's internet age it's totally unneccesary too. I had a faulty automatic cruise control (yes, this car had adaptive cruise control) and at the dealership it would have cost me 4000 EUR to replace things that didn't need any replacement at all. a VCDS tool readout only indicated that i needed to replace the brake booster controller unit, it cost me 160 euro's second-hand and it immediately worked like a charm. Also, ANY car will cost maintainance. And funny it may be, but these cars are built so 'bulletproof' that you really hardly ever have anything with it. Yes, sure, things will fail - but that goes for ANY car. Including Toyota's. The only thing why these cars aren't popular to be bought right now is because of it's weight, you tend to pay a hefty price on taxes, and obviously, fuel economy. Testing a V6 imho is really NOT the way to go. You should have went with the V8 or the W12. The V6 is a 'cheap@ss' version so to speak, and many of them 'abused' by now. So it's like any car: you buy the low-budget many-miles car, you are going to get issues. It doesn't matter if it's a Golf, a Polo, a Civic, a Jazz. Cheap, badly maintained, abused cars are expensive. I have never driven a car better than the Pheaton and it's an absolute delight. The ONLY two things to go with are making a bluetooth connection and a proper phone mount for you navigation purposes as the CD maps are now getting rather out of date - and a rear-view camera, which is EASILY able to be fitted to the license plate area and connecting to your TV input which is conveniently in the back of the car. But a few hundred miles in the car of driving and you know exactly it's proportions and limits so you don't actually need one. Also, it's purposeful that it 'looks' like a Passat - some have called it 'stealth wealth'. Owners of the Pheaton aren't the type of people that want to flash their riches. The mistake VW made was actually providing the 'base' version with the UNDERPOWERED V6 you actually drive. The Pheaton was a luxury treat, and when VW offered it much cheaper with a lousy V6, people got annoyed as it greatly lost it's prestige and it became a 'lease vehicle'. I also very much disagree on the looks department : the original pre-facelift Phaeton looks far more classy and tasteful than the 'cheapened VW generic' look of the facelift version, that includes the tail lights. Only the SatNav was an improvement imho. The V8 was a blazing fast car, with the speed limiter removed it just barely hits the 270 kph mark on the speedo (not actual GPS speed obviously) but the W12 goes another full degree over that. The Pheaton is a MASSIVELY underappreciated car and it's right on schedule as becoming a collector's car which will see it's value skyrocket in the next decade, not unlike the BMW M3 E30 of old, and other 'classic' cars - because that's what it's really becoming : a genuine Classic Car, and it's a Gentleman's car. So if you want to have a Phaeton, you better buy it now whilst they're affordable. Not the cheap V6s, those are generally completely torn. Not because they're bad cars, but because they get treated like how people treat a cheap Veauxhall : as a throwaway product instead of properly taking care of a proper vehicle. If you trash a Ferrari, that's not bad build quality of Ferrari's side. It's the owner's fault. And the reputation the Pheaton achieved is exactly because of that cheap V6 type of owners and buyers. And that is where however VW is to blame. They ruined the image of the car by cheapening it. It was opposite of what Pfiech actually had in mind. It's like putting a 4-cylinder underpowered diesel in a Jaguar Sovereign. It ruins and dilutes the brand / model.
Well said my friend. I had to read this twice. I've just got the 3.oTDI Phaeton, removed the DPF and remapped to 285bhp & oh what a delight ? Light & nimble in & out of the corners for a 2.5 ton machine. After owning a W12 Spur for 3 years & driving a friends 2010 XJ for 4 weeks, I had to have the Phaeton due to the fact, the Phaeton had the uber luxury, & the feeling of the Flying Spur inside. Well outside, I don't have the " Where do I park it Issues? & Where is the nearest petrol station issues ?" now it stress free living. Champagne motoring for Lemonade money. My 2010 came with the VW rear camera, Rear H&C Massage seats, 4 zone air con. I added a Bluetooth Media-in AUX at CD player, does the phone & music for £10, plus 2x magnet phone holder. The Germans invented the diesel engine, but the Japs perfected it. I can say this because I have a 25 year old Landcruiser 4.2tdi after 25 years, I've just replaced the ABS PUMP & only at wear do I need to replace parts in my ownership of 7 years. Also runs on Bio Diesel perfect. I can't risk this on the German engines due to rubber seals. However that said, the VW 2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM was best of the Germans. So great, that VW took it of the market & went back to 2.0tdi, due to the PARTS department not making any money & would only make at a 500k engine overhaul. I would buy another one today. My kindest regards & once again well said.
I have a 1993 Mercedes W124 300E - 100,000 miles. Number 7 older Mercedes that I have owned since 1978. None bought new. I am now 75 so this is likely the last car I will own. These non-computer cars have an enviable reputation for reliability and build quality and my experience so far bears that out. New cars leave me cold!!
Please kind Sir, If you ever & I mean EVER need to sell your beloved Mercedes, Please let me know. A humble request. Enjoy in the meantime. Kind Regards
My final conclusion is the same as yours, "Stick with the S class (and not with the unreliable 7 or the A8)". The fact that the Phaeton looks just like a Passat is NOT a drawback, many people who want a Phaeton are not snobs, they intentionally want a very understated exterior to hide the luxury inside. In the US, because it was such a flop and only a few were sold, it's not even cheap to get a used Phaeton, esp the Bentley-like W12. In the UK they apparently sold a 6 cyl TDI, which, for most people, is by far the best one to buy, and if it is anything like my Merc TDIs, it should be totally reliable AND give you outstanding MPG compared to the V8 and W12 petrol engines.
Well said. But NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
The VW Phaeton was a beautiful looking car. A real statement for VW. I was disappointed it never got any traction in the American market. That car was beautifully made.
I would be more upset about the gauges not being vertical when normal, but they all seem to be in the same angle when normal, so it's not bad, just rakish.
Good review. Glad to see we are back to good quality commentary rather than just revving engines and thrashing a car up and down a country A road for no apparent reason
I sat for about an hour going back and forth with the sales manager on a w12 version in 2002. It was really impressive. And for around 50k, a deal. But, delivery, and a few gray areas covered in that hour, had me just ordering a maxed option Passat wagon. Which, I absolutely loved. I had performance machines, so the Passat only had to please my engineering senses and feel. I was maybe my favorite commuter car ever, but was stupidly unreliable. Towed three times in 26k miles.
As far as I know you were able to get the VR6 Phaeton with a manual gearbox, although I don't know if that was available in the UK. There is a few for sale in Germany.
Had 3 Phaetons, 2 LWB and a shorty. Fantastic cars. They did have a habit of corroding, not through rust but where steel met aluminium, pretty much all around the car. Avoid the V10 as its noisier and no faster than the V6 diesel. The V12 is hugely thirsty and still no improvement over the V6
It is interesting the British take on the 1990s VW car line verses the states. VW had always been a car line of the 1960s and hippies. By the time I was in high school in the 1990s in Oklahoma, I never saw new vw cars. When I was shopping for my first car, I really wanted a VR6 VW Corrado. My dad refused saying that VW were shit and bought me a 1994 Pontiac grand am...it lasted 18 months. It was not until the new vw beetle that I thought about buying a vw...and they were most popular model around while I was in college. I remember when the phaeton came out and really liked it. Great review, keep up the good work!
I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry also worried about, "where to park issues?" My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & is my everyday car now. It's corner handling & road handling equals the "Bentley Class." Removed the DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job. Both Front bulbs were done for £40. I think Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
Thanks... A lot... the last two videos (this and the Alpine) have both been about cars I desperately try to resist buying on a monthly basis. Having reminders in video form really doesn't help my TVR fund.
I drove a W12 Phaeton in early 2004 as a company car delivery driver. I collected it from the head office of the Halifax building society and drove it the 200 miles back to base. The seats are amazing - 20 years ago they had more little electric motors in them than most cars! The performance was pretty epic too, and it was enormously comfy and quiet (and pretty enormous on some of the smaller roads). After that, I always wanted to own one, but a friend ran a small fleet of luxury cabs, and had a few - they were always breaking. When the regular V6 diesel breaks loads and costs a huge amount to fix, you definitely think twice about the idea of a W12. Wish I had had the money and balls to buy one though- it would be the car to have for long distance driving.
Only yesterday I was asking myself why you didnt review a Phaeton yet. An upcoming classic with, at least in Germany and an eastern europe, a loving fanbase already. Too bad your example doesnt have any of the extras that make the car worth buying.
I would love an understated car like this. Would not mind at all if people confused it for a Passat. Just means the one who catches what it is will be most likely interesting. Making small talk worth it.
I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry also worried about, "where to park issues?" My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & is my everyday car now. It's corner handling & road handling equals the "Bentley Class." Removed the DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job. Both Front bulbs were done for £40. I think Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
I took the GT from 2005 and shortly after a 2014. I’d always wanted a Bentley, and yes, they were fabulous, but just missed the mark for me. Not quite special enough to warrant the worry, like you say. Shame, but those engines were sweet (both W12 versions).
I am Chinese, and i lived in US about 8 years. Chinese love this car because of stealth wealth. I really like pheaton. I watched almost every pheaton car reviews I can find. But, I bought Volvo xc90...
Was it a failure though? In hindsight it’s clear to me that it was really a test bed for the Bentley flying spur and others. Vw had a lot more money to play with than Bentley
NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY. You missed out the Infamous VW 2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans. So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
In america the dealers repair costs were astronomical and consumers ran away rather quickly and resale pricing plummeted.. pretty much true of all german luxury cars...
I heard that VW planned another "luxury" sedan between the Passat and Phaeton to be developed with Maserati. It was to use the same chassis as the Quattroporte. They even developed a 4.0 W8 for the car. But with the apparent failure of the Phaeton made them scrap the idea and use the 4.0 W8 for other cars. including the Passat W8.
I remember these coming and for some reason being giddy with excitement!!! Must have been the name or something 🤔 I have to say its the identical looks to a Passat that really kills it for me. Here's another brother from another mother VW to review James.....the Passat CC 😐
Yes it was a flop for VW brand but not for the VW group! The amount of cars that were built on this platform sold well. As You said Bentley especially.
Well said, NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
I know someone who owned one. He owned it for 2 years, out of which it had spent about 4 months in garages having things fixed. It was an utter disaster!
I lusted after a v10 tdi Phaeton for quite a while whilst I had a d2 A8 4.2q, I drove a 3.2 lwb Phaeton & was hugely underwhelmed by it to be honest, lots of niggles & the 3.2 felt horribly out of place in such a car. I like the story but the equivalent S Class is a much better drive, all are aflicted by massive bills. 100k cars are still 100k cars even if you pay a fraction to buy one!
Peugeot 607 3.0 V6 with all the goods was a bit similar car as the Phaeton. It didn't have the correct badge so it wasn't "accepted" in the luxury car segment. But in the best trim it sure was a good car. Not quite up to Phaeton V12-level but right up there with A6 Audis, etc. Just think about it... almost all brands had a model for this segment in the 70's and 80's. Ford Granada 2.8i Ghia, Opel Senator/Monza, Fiat Croma, Citroen CX/XM, Alfa 164, Saab 9000, etc. Now it belongs MB, BMW and Audi. They have total monopoly in the class. I'm not even sure if Jaguar continues with the XF in the future.
The rumor that i heard is that VW wanted to build a new car for their newly purchase Bentley but couldn’t get the necessary budget for R&D. So the phaeton project is born which in turn produce the Continental GT, Flying Spur which basically secures Bentley future.
Enjoyed your video on the VW Phaeton. Sat in a few at Motor Shows but the VW Passat look doesn't sit comfortably with this car. VW should have tried harder with the styling. I'm a Jag Man, on my 5th. Keeping my current XJ8 Sovereign LWB (X308) despite its foibles and 208k mileage. Last of the Jags where you can source spares at reasonable cost and find an informative specialist with sensible labour rates. Watching the video reminded me that I can still change a light bulb, no air suspension problems, etc. I have friends with later Jag models who shell out a fortune on replacement components and lengthy labour costs! My problem is, what do I replace my worthless Jaguar with...especially when neighbour's tell me to "never replace that car". You see they perceive the vehicle as an expensive classic car. I had better continue to keep it clean and well polished.
Have you checked out Mercedes or BMW, or Lexus? A 5 Series doesn't look identical the a 7 Series? And nearly all Mercedes models look alike. Kinda like the way all manufactures build there cars.
I bought a nice sample with low kms in Germany for 5500 euros. Affordable and great to drive. Unfortunately, the top speed remained at 140 kilometers per hour, because both turbos were broken. The repair would have cost around 5,000 euros.
So true. But NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
I like Phaetons - they are really well build. I might understand why he is running without DPF as that is expensive to replace (however, I do not support that), but why would someone not put in new EGR if the original did fail? The DPFs on these cars last really long distances and usually fail due to other issues with engine (injectors, turbo, thermostats) or due to unsuitable driving conditions (short distances with low average speed) as those early DPFs needed certain circumstances to perform DPF regeneration. Otherwise these engine may run 300k miles if maintained properly.
0:21 The timing of that piece to camera, talking about the jewel that shouldn't have flopped while being overtaken by the turd that should have flopped but didn't.
When a VW tries to sell at AUDI prices. In the states, Phaeton sold only in V8 and W12 for I think a couple model years, the W8 was in the Passat with 4-motion in manual or automatic for one year, then the CC came out when VW tried to call that the new Passat and VW fans were not having it that CC became a stand alone model. Seen a couple Phaetons around with V8 and super low mileage, the owners will not part with them. They look nice.
This review sums up the phaeton perfectly. I remember clearly that around 2000, Volkswagen could do no wrong: many of their cars were claimed to be superior to their rivals and it was for many, many people their only go-to brand. But I get the impression that because of that perception Ferdinand Piëch became a bit too much of a megalomaniac and the phaeton was like the first sign of him stretching the companies luck too far. Even back then I wondered who would be interested in an expensive executive saloon that looked like a stretched-out passat, especially at a time when Skoda introduced litteraly a car like that, their first post-war superb. Still wonder why you would want one today, especially with maintenance costs like that, so those low asking prices to me make perfect sense; I think I'd refuse it if someone gave me one for free.
Stunning car. It’s very simple…people are not willing to pay $100K for a Volkswagen. That’s it. Great car. As a used car, you need huge funds for service and repairs. It could prove to be a nightmare, unless you get lucky.
If you've seen the second-gen Phaeton prototype, I can only imagine how desirable that car would be. Pity the interior got the god-awful touchscreen and touch-sensitive buttons. The exterior, in my opinion, is handsome.
🤔 I remember the Phaeton for a brief time. Yes it was quite the exciting thing to see on the road, but only us car guys could tell the difference between it and the Passat. Hey Jay, speaking of the W12, should it be possible to get a hold of a Volkswagen W12 Nardo for review, I would much like to see that happen. Cheers. ✌🏻🇺🇸
I sampled a cooking v6tdi which was pretty nice at the time, and then I drove the v10, now THAT was a real weapon. What really pit me off is the complexity of the thing, and horrendous bills to keep it alive, at least on the earlier ones. Major expense for suspension, servicing, headlights etc.... Think the v10 was a better bet because most of the mechanicals were gear driven
A flop is not the right word. The inchassis of the Phaeton was used in the hugely successful Bentley Continental Gen I Other offsprings in the VW concern are Passat CC etc.
So true. NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
NOT a FLOP, due to the numbers sold under Bentley Spur & Conti, Porches Panamera, Audi A8. All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton. Making VW millions, all due to people being Badge HAPPY. You missed out the Infamous VW 2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans. So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
CarVertical: The History Checking Service
Use This Link or Code "JM20" for a Discount!
www.carvertical.com/gb/landing/v3?b=1e4c9523&a=JayEmm&voucher=jm20&chan=JM
Having owned a Phaeton for 8 years and driven over 100000 miles I watched you report start to finish; I compliment you on an excellent piece of journalism. You have been thorough, informative and accurate in your report. Well done that man!!
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
@@Sub-Kuch13.13 not a flop in itself either, since it managed to get a second sales life in China, where it outsold audi, mercedes and BMW in this class
Many years ago I did a tour of the Phaeton factory in Dresden. They take you through the buying process of specifying your car options, and you see the build process, much of it was by hand with small teams working on the major sub components, rather than your whole job just being fitting the left hand headlamp. Then you get to watch the car picker pull a vehicle out of the massive glass cylinder stack of cars. Amazing. There was also a driving sim. Pretty sure this was way before Merc started with this kind of customer experience centres.
I spent some time in Dresden, we were building Bentley Flying Spurs down the same line.
I went there with my father to pick up our phaeton from the factory
What an amazing experience it was! I still have the picture when we stood there with our lovely new car
What a pity
I loved it
so it really was indeed a discount bentley, what a shame that it didn't sell better.
I have owned a Phaeton for 8 years and driven over 100000 miles. Absolutely love it! luckily have a local VW specialist who knows how to maintain it. Have had no real issues or horrendously large bills like the one you are driving. It has been a joy.
Me thinks Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
😆😆😆
Is It the W12? I’ve been looking to buy one for ages.
Completely agree. We have a 2008 V8 and almost no problems since we bought it in 2011. Only the electric steering wheel adjustment would need replacing at 4000 Swiss Francs, so we do without. I do not agree, as a car buff, that it in any way resembles a Passat, although the design dates from the same time as probably the nicest sexiest Passat design, the B5. It was a great moment in the history of VW, but since dieselgate and the fall of Ferdinand Piech it has lost its mojo rather badly. This is a fabulous long distance cruiser, so quiet and comfortable and in my opinion vastly superior to the shonky rubbish put out by MB and BMW today. A car far superior to an S in fact.
@@christopheripad477 I own a W12 with over 250,000 miles on it, all original by me.
Of course you'd say that, you'll need to sell yours some day....
I own two W12 GP1 Phaetons and I have to say they have been very good to me. Nowhere near as scary as people make out. 130k and 208k miles and they are still sublime and hardly break a sweat doing jail speed in them even after doing all those miles.
Never understand the whole “looks like a Passat” thing because the B6 A4 looks exactly the same as the A8 of the same generation yet no one bats an eye about those cars
Wow you made a very good point😂I guess people just have favoritism towards car brands. I completely agree with you though
My all time favorite full size luxury car.
4 door Bentley is ugly, Merc w220 isnt half as good as the w140, bmw is ugly as well...
Phaeton just looks well finished and while some ppl dislike the interior to me its the best looking and most comfortable.
Just wish the 3.6 vr6 was easier to find.
@@danielhristov6175In my opinion the Phaeton is really the spiritual successor to the W140. It just has this insane level of build quality and solidity which was lost with the W220. Also I agree the 3.6 VR6 should have been more common; enough power, reliable, smooth and decently fuel efficient. You don’t see many 3.6 Phaeton’s because they were only available in the GP3 and GP4 models which didn’t sell as well as the earlier models.
Stealth wealth. Looking like a Passat is perfect. I’m not trying to impress others, I’m trying to enjoy the best automotive engineering can provide.
The boot hinges were made by Campagnolo of Vicenza, the bicycle component manufacturer which was also famous for alloy wheels in the past. We need to see you reviewing a bike with some Campagnolo components James.
If it's not enough that you lycra cnuts pestering roads. Now you trying to get in to a car channel. Just stay away from us, petrolheads. I'm sure that there a plenty of sad channels that can be bothered about crappy pushbikes
See information like these are so interesting to me. I expect reviewer to mention these instead just "how it drives etc"
That's fair, but he's not Daddy Doug. I guess knowing this shows Jay does have an eye for quality.
That’s very interesting! Love stuff like this.
Haha that's mad! I wonder how that ever came about.
I’ve owned a 2009 V6 TDI for over 4 years. It has now done 115K and has been a great car to own. My usual garage has been able to deal with all the maintenance, having originally gone to a bentley specialist. I’ve had some issues with the wiring loom in the boot but that’s about it. You say it’s steel but all the body panels are actually aluminium. I’ve found part costs have been fine. Good review.
I bought a 2012 Phaeton for when it was 3 years old and kept it for 4 years / 60,000 miles. The only reliability issue was an intermittent air conditioning fault in the last few weeks before I sold it. It had routine servicing at a VW dealership in London, and I never paid more than £500 for a service. Tyres, brake discs, tax and insurance all quite pricey. And when an idiot knocked my door mirror off, it was £1,600 to replace. Great car though, especially on the motorway - where it would do 40mpg.
I just bought a 2004 Phaeton V8 this summer. Very comfortable and more roomy than my previously owned S-class. Maintenance is about the same as my S-class too. I’m gonna baby this gem. It was built on the same platform as the Bentley Flying Spur.
if u r in the UK, u should get the TDI. If in the US, the TDI is not available here, I would only get the W12. One has to own a 12 cylinder car, even if it is a W and not a V12, once in your life.
I've heard that the V8 version is much more reliable than the W12, the 4.2 V8 had even won an engine award! And that's what makes the B7 RS4 reliable too
@@henryshu6265 the TDI version should be utterly, bulletproof reliable AND much more fuel efficient than the V8 and esp the W12. If you want the V8, why get this POS and NOT A DIVINE S CLASS?
@@anastassiosperakis2869 I hear you, honestly if I want the V8, I'll definitely choose the W221 S500(possibly with AMG exterior pack)
Me too.
I got this Rare spec.
Heat & cool
Massage seats in Rear.
2010 Mocca brown at 55k owned by a Dr.
For £6.5k.
Wow Bargain!!!
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
You missed out the
Infamous VW
2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans.
So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
I'm a serial buyer of old luxury cars. The thing that put me off these (as James said) is the total lack of specialists. There are even only a couple of VW dealers who actually have the knowledge to deal with these.
Ahh perfect timing! Was looking at these yesterday as I was looking for an understated luxury car. Searched UA-cam for reviews and opinions yesterday and sadly not many reviews or review I’d trust. Then I get a notification today about your review. What are the chances!
I remember when VW introduced the Phaeton and Touareg they were designed to herald in a new super-luxury sub-brand with unheard of benefits like roadside assistance where a technician would be helicoptered to you within five minutes of the SOS button being pressed (I exaggerate but it was something crazy like that) and other really serious luxury perks. Only a subset of VW dealers were allowed to sell these two models and they had to invest in dedicated facilities and technicians and a special Phaeton plinth in the showroom. When I visited the Dresden factory Phaetons were being hand-assembled on the same production line as Bentleys. Needless to say, as sales didn't materialise (for the Phaeton at least) all the super-luxury support stuff quietly fell away and Touareg was opened up to the whole VW network to sell. I have run the 3.0 and V10 diesels, 3.2 and W12 petrols and they were all shockingly good, coming from nowhere and jumping ahead of the S-Class and 7-series of the day, massively over-engineered but somewhat troublesome to begin with due to the complexity. I think they had something like 40 ECUs when the average car might have had 5 or 6 at that time. I generally have a soft-spot for Q-cars, it's a shame it didn't work out.
My dream car reviewed by one of the greatest car youtubers. Oh boy.
I'm of the mind that vanity projects are no bad thing because it is, regardless of the reason for existence, a pursuit of "excellence" and that pursuit, if carried out truly free from the normal limitations of having to make money, is one of the things that leads to learning, understanding and new developments.
As much as I love the A8 D3, I'll still consider the Phaeton 4.2 or 5.0 TDI(If I can afford one of course), because I always like how understated it looks and the subtle details that differentiate the Passat and it, plus it's unlikely to find another V10 TDI sedan like ever, I just like how unique and quirky it is, I'll definitely try it someday!
£500 to replace a bulb is criminal.
Me thinks Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
Cost me £40 same car too.
😆😆😆
My MOT tester failed a 3-series BMW due to headlamp failure. Main dealer only and £1000. Oh, in the book, 4 hours to fit it as front of car has to be dismantled. He agreed with me: halogen bulbs are enough.
I mean you could do it at home
Jack up both sides. Remove undertray using a screwdriver. Remove inner wheel arch liners. Three bolts each side behind the arch liners. A handful of bolts at the top that secure the bumper to slam panel. The bumper can now be pulled forward and the headlights removed. It’s a 2 hour job start to finish realistically, and requires £10 worth of new plastic fasteners and your bulb. Therefore only the main dealer is charging £500 but even at a normal garage what’s that? £150? If you can DIY it’s absolutely fine.
Agreed it would be but luckily it's much easier and less expensive. You do not need to take the front bumper off. You remove the air boxes from inside the engine bay and then you have direct access to the back of the headlight. The difficult thing is angling the air boxes out. The passenger side is relatively easy. Driver's side is more fiddly. You just have to try different angles. 40 minutes to do both sides max. The procedure is described on VW Vortex online, which is a great resource for Phaeton owners. I've had my Phaeton for 17 years (4.2) and have done this a number of times. The direct replacement bulbs from Sylvania or Phillips cost less than $30.00 on Amazon for a pair. LEDs upgrades from Autoone are about $40.00-$50.00.
Great video! Thank you for the shoutout to me and the Phaeton Owners UK group :)
Hi Callum
The repair costs mentioned in this video are super high?
I just got one 6 months ago, removed the DPF and remapped for £400. Bulbs done at
£50.
@@Sub-Kuch13.13 Yeah I agree that the bills mentioned are extortionate. I’m not the owner of this car but I run the Phaeton Owners UK group - it completely depends where you take the cars to have work done. I’ve now owned Phaetons for 4 years and have completed most repairs myself. They’re not that expensive to own
@@YouCallum
FANTASTIC.
Just the chap I need to share my Phaeton stuff with.
I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry, also worried about,
"Where to park issues?"
My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & it is "Bentley Class."
Without the Super high running costs of the Bentley.
Removed the
DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job.
Paid only £6500 for a 3.0tdi Phaeton 2010,
6 months ago with 55k & rear massage heat & cooled seats + freeview tv. In a Mocca brown.
Owned by a Dr.
Super Rare Options. Just missing the LWB & Sunroof.
Just being a nerdy now.
🤓🧐🤓🧐
Audio at the start is weird?
I think if you watch a longer video right after it’s uploaded the yt genious copyright tool is still going through it to make sure no Eagles songs are in it and messes up the sound for a while.
Sound Picasso
It was a known problem that when driving the Phaeton at low speeds the cabin can be filled with the sounds of tweeting birds. They never could fix it even after several recalls.
@@dkerr200 I think it only affects the cars with the canary pack
Yep, one immediately recognises the unmistakable sound of the vw clean diesel exhaust tweeter option.
Yesss! Very underrated car. I had s-classes, several 7 series, a8s, xj350 and still loved my old GP2, basic 3.2, dead reliable even after 340k km, mint condition and great ride.
Im looking to buy one again. But 4.2 this time. :)
After owning a W12 Spur & E250, I had the urge to own a barge that equalled the W12,
Hence the 3.oTDI Phaeton I have now.
As James says in the video, the ride handling quality & build quality is most definitely next to the Rolls Royce.
"Champagne motoring for Lemonade money."
The 4.2 isn't very reliable though. 5.0tdi is a better all-rounder
No such thing as underrated. Everything is as it should be....
I will own a phaeton at some point. This video has made me respect its engineering even more
James, i believe this is your most perfectly crafted video yet. Its a must watch. Very well done Sir.
I'm glad you did this review. Just last week I almost bought a 3.2V6 (2004) Phaeton from a garage in Crewe for £3,495.00 Perhaps someone was test driving it because when I arrived it was conspicuous by it's absence. Seems like I dodged a bullet.
In 2004 I remember closely examining a 12 cylinder version of this car in the dealership showroom in New York. I liked it. Not sure I ever saw another one. Parked or moving
My father used to own a earlier example of the w12 version. It was just superb, and it tops at 186mph without limiter it will go over 200. The real problem with the car is the spark plugs of the old w12 engine is somewhat problematic and it’s very expensive to replace labor wise plus the gearbox gave up regularly after 3 years the car is in the shop more often than on the road which is why my father get rid of the car.
I had 3 Phaetons consecutively, used in my chauffeur service company. They were all 3.0 turbo diesels . Great car, all LWB models. I eventually got into an Audi A8, LWB. The Phaetons were great cars, drove well, with plenty of room. The problem was Particulate Filter. I had one of each model upgrade. Each one had problems with theParticulate Filters. On a run down to London of around 200 miles, then half a day in London traffic, Particulate Filter light would come on. This meant I had to find a dual carriageway set the tiptronic to4th gear at 55mph and the filter would clear. If I did not do this quickly enough, It would go into Limp Mode. A real pain, so I eventually got rid and bought the Audi A8 LWB. Better car, never goes wrong !!
I drove with my new bride from England to Germany a few years ago to participate in an Expo at Leipzig, we then travelled to Dresden where we stayed in accommodation across the road from the transparent factory. I did see the VW logo but did not realise at the time it was the Phaeton production line. I had not heard of the Phaeton.
I had the V10 5.0 for about a year... what a stunning car, I miss it terribly. I didn't have any problems with it - but I could tell they were looming, so got rid of it. If I had deeper pockets I would have kept it, and given it a cheeky remap.
The biggest problem I had was the coating on the glass meant that mobile and satnav reception was terrible inside the car.
The explanation for the Phaeton is quite simple: Ferdinand Piëch had such a huge presence in the company as Il Padrone assoluto that nobody could contradict him. The car was not an internal tussle with Audi nor a proof of VW's design prowess but Piëch's very bad idea that nobody was in a position to gainsay.
In wasn't a bad idea. They just didn't know how to segment it and sell it.
Yes! One of my dream cars. I own a 5.0 V10 TDI LWB and it drives absolutely amazing. But as any Phaeton it definitely has it's issues like a broken door-lock and broken Door handles. However I can forgive all of it' flaws every time I drive it. Also I do think it looks pretty impressive, although mine is slightly lowered on 19 inch 275 wheels an tires and has a VW-Individual full dark-grey and red leather interior (every surface is covered in leather). Ultimately though, anyone buying a phaeton needs to be ready to afford the "intensive care" the car needs, or be willing to do the work themselves.
Those cars were built back in an era when manufacturers were not afraid building high complex engines. Nowadays the four banger became the "state of the art" engine.
I miss those times when they were building V10 Diesel engines or W12. Those engines are a piece of art and technology.
The Phaeton is beautiful beyond beasure. Especially the interior. If it wasnt such a gas hog and all the expensive extras like air suspension etc I would drive one gladly.
I quite like the Phaeton, it's all the car you'll ever need in a VERY understated package. If you know cars then you get it, but if you don't care about what the average Joe or neighbour thinks its great. I seriously looked at getting one, but it's very difficult to get one in a decent condition outside of the very top price bracket.....like an S class really.
VW sent me a lovely sales brochure for the Phaeton at launch, I still have it but no way I'd have even thought about buying one at the time. Massive depreciation seemed the obvious downside that could not be ignored.
I've had a couple of 3 litre TDI Phaetons, rear 3 quarter is the best angle. They were cheap and reasonably frugal and much better trimmed than a 730d, S320 of the era. As you say, parts are a nightmare and they suffer from water ingress into the wiring looms at the scuttle, as also affects early Bentley Conti GTS - this is the most costly fault to remedy especially if the ECUs get fried. I'd have an XJ X350 of the same value any day over a Phaeton
the car was successful in China was purely because the brand has an invincible, unconditional brand loyalty there. VW was introduced in China back in 1983 for their Passat B2, and it was the ONLY western modern car available in China back then (competitors was soviet cars), so it became THE de facto luxury, high quality brand for the most of the Chinese people for decades, and it still is now. In other words, Chinese will buy anything VW makes
I remember working at a VW dealers in 2004/5 and these were coming in with numerous faults … only one technician was qualified to work on them … the customers were seldom happy with them & they just seemed like a nightmare at the time … I’m amazed to learn that they went all the way to 2016
new cars have problems that get ironed out over the years if you worked in the dealership you should know this unless you were the prostiture on a saturday night
Cuz is pet project
My favorite VAG projects from the "Piech Vanity era" are the Audi A2 3l and the Vw Touareg, but this isnt bad as well.
If you buy a well maintained one, I doubt one needs to worry about spending too much money on these. My dad bought one from 2011 a few years back and it has been working flawlessly since, only needed regular maintenance. The paint will bubble up on the doors though, that is a guarantee.
The paint on the doors is a common problem on cars from harsh climates here in California we don’t see that problem.
@@bartismoellis1052 The paint bubbling up is a common problem with the Phaeton in particular. It's not rust, the paint simply comes off the aluminium door. VW has been sued over this.
This car was released when I was a teenager. At the time, I had a subscription to Motor Trend magazine. They used to include a new car buyer's guide at the back of each issue. Nothing too in depth, but it highlighted things like dimensions, power, price, etc. I didn't know a ton about cars back then but i remember looking through those buyer's guides and thinking that the Phaeton didn't make sense. I mean, here's a brand that has cars ranging from 20-35k US and then the Phaeton, which was a tick over 100k. Looking at the car now and understanding what they are and what they were meant to be, the price makes more sense but the perception of the car was always going to suffer when it's being sold on the same lot as the Beetle.
And now look at Mercedes Benz who also sells delivery van and A class or BMW which sells shit boxes like X1.
A sales failure it might be, but still one of the most important cars in VAG's history
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
You missed out the
Infamous VW
2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans.
So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
The world's best Government executive saloon: discreet luxury, and with the humdrum VW badge the general public would never have guessed it.
As a satisfied second-hand Phaeton owner, i completely disagree with your judgement on the Phaeton. It is really not all that expensive to maintain. Your local handyman garage can do almost anything. You DON't need to go to the VW dealership. It doesn't matter if you have a Pheaton or a Audi A8, or a Mercedes S-Class, if you go to the brand's garage you are going to PAY. And in today's internet age it's totally unneccesary too. I had a faulty automatic cruise control (yes, this car had adaptive cruise control) and at the dealership it would have cost me 4000 EUR to replace things that didn't need any replacement at all.
a VCDS tool readout only indicated that i needed to replace the brake booster controller unit, it cost me 160 euro's second-hand and it immediately worked like a charm.
Also, ANY car will cost maintainance. And funny it may be, but these cars are built so 'bulletproof' that you really hardly ever have anything with it. Yes, sure, things will fail - but that goes for ANY car. Including Toyota's.
The only thing why these cars aren't popular to be bought right now is because of it's weight, you tend to pay a hefty price on taxes, and obviously, fuel economy.
Testing a V6 imho is really NOT the way to go. You should have went with the V8 or the W12.
The V6 is a 'cheap@ss' version so to speak, and many of them 'abused' by now. So it's like any car: you buy the low-budget many-miles car, you are going to get issues. It doesn't matter if it's a Golf, a Polo, a Civic, a Jazz. Cheap, badly maintained, abused cars are expensive.
I have never driven a car better than the Pheaton and it's an absolute delight. The ONLY two things to go with are making a bluetooth connection and a proper phone mount for you navigation purposes as the CD maps are now getting rather out of date - and a rear-view camera, which is EASILY able to be fitted to the license plate area and connecting to your TV input which is conveniently in the back of the car.
But a few hundred miles in the car of driving and you know exactly it's proportions and limits so you don't actually need one.
Also, it's purposeful that it 'looks' like a Passat - some have called it 'stealth wealth'. Owners of the Pheaton aren't the type of people that want to flash their riches.
The mistake VW made was actually providing the 'base' version with the UNDERPOWERED V6 you actually drive. The Pheaton was a luxury treat, and when VW offered it much cheaper with a lousy V6, people got annoyed as it greatly lost it's prestige and it became a 'lease vehicle'.
I also very much disagree on the looks department : the original pre-facelift Phaeton looks far more classy and tasteful than the 'cheapened VW generic' look of the facelift version, that includes the tail lights.
Only the SatNav was an improvement imho.
The V8 was a blazing fast car, with the speed limiter removed it just barely hits the 270 kph mark on the speedo (not actual GPS speed obviously) but the W12 goes another full degree over that.
The Pheaton is a MASSIVELY underappreciated car and it's right on schedule as becoming a collector's car which will see it's value skyrocket in the next decade, not unlike the BMW M3 E30 of old, and other 'classic' cars - because that's what it's really becoming : a genuine Classic Car, and it's a Gentleman's car.
So if you want to have a Phaeton, you better buy it now whilst they're affordable. Not the cheap V6s, those are generally completely torn. Not because they're bad cars, but because they get treated like how people treat a cheap Veauxhall : as a throwaway product instead of properly taking care of a proper vehicle. If you trash a Ferrari, that's not bad build quality of Ferrari's side. It's the owner's fault. And the reputation the Pheaton achieved is exactly because of that cheap V6 type of owners and buyers.
And that is where however VW is to blame. They ruined the image of the car by cheapening it. It was opposite of what Pfiech actually had in mind. It's like putting a 4-cylinder underpowered diesel in a Jaguar Sovereign. It ruins and dilutes the brand / model.
Well said my friend.
I had to read this twice.
I've just got the 3.oTDI
Phaeton, removed the DPF and remapped to 285bhp & oh what a delight ?
Light & nimble in & out of the corners for a 2.5 ton machine.
After owning a W12 Spur for 3 years & driving a friends 2010 XJ for 4 weeks,
I had to have the Phaeton due to the fact,
the Phaeton had the uber luxury, & the feeling of the Flying Spur inside.
Well outside,
I don't have the
" Where do I park it Issues? & Where is the nearest petrol station issues ?" now it stress free living.
Champagne motoring for Lemonade money.
My 2010 came with the VW rear camera,
Rear H&C Massage seats, 4 zone air con.
I added a Bluetooth
Media-in AUX at CD player, does the phone & music for £10, plus
2x magnet phone holder.
The Germans invented the diesel engine, but the Japs perfected it.
I can say this because I have a 25 year old Landcruiser 4.2tdi after 25 years, I've just replaced the ABS PUMP & only at wear do I need to replace parts in my ownership of 7 years. Also runs on Bio Diesel perfect.
I can't risk this on the German engines due to rubber seals.
However that said, the
VW 2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM was best of the Germans.
So great, that VW took it of the market & went back to 2.0tdi, due to the PARTS department not making any money & would only make at a 500k engine overhaul.
I would buy another one today.
My kindest regards & once again well said.
I have a 1993 Mercedes W124 300E - 100,000 miles. Number 7 older Mercedes that I have owned since 1978. None bought new. I am now 75 so this is likely the last car I will own.
These non-computer cars have an enviable reputation for reliability and build quality and my experience so far bears that out.
New cars leave me cold!!
Please kind Sir,
If you ever & I mean EVER need to sell your beloved Mercedes,
Please let me know.
A humble request.
Enjoy in the meantime.
Kind Regards
My final conclusion is the same as yours, "Stick with the S class (and not with the unreliable 7 or the A8)". The fact that the Phaeton looks just like a Passat is NOT a drawback, many people who want a Phaeton are not snobs, they intentionally want a very understated exterior to hide the luxury inside. In the US, because it was such a flop and only a few were sold, it's not even cheap to get a used Phaeton, esp the Bentley-like W12. In the UK they apparently sold a 6 cyl TDI, which, for most people, is by far the best one to buy, and if it is anything like my Merc TDIs, it should be totally reliable AND give you outstanding MPG compared to the V8 and W12 petrol engines.
Well said.
But NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
The VW Phaeton was a beautiful looking car.
A real statement for VW.
I was disappointed it never got any traction in the American market.
That car was beautifully made.
It was neutral which means it ages well. It could come out today and still fit in.
I would be more upset about the gauges not being vertical when normal, but they all seem to be in the same angle when normal, so it's not bad, just rakish.
These are great! My pal had a 2008 TDI and the air suspension did a great job on the rural roads around Helensburgh.
Good review. Glad to see we are back to good quality commentary rather than just revving engines and thrashing a car up and down a country A road for no apparent reason
I sat for about an hour going back and forth with the sales manager on a w12 version in 2002. It was really impressive. And for around 50k, a deal. But, delivery, and a few gray areas covered in that hour, had me just ordering a maxed option Passat wagon. Which, I absolutely loved. I had performance machines, so the Passat only had to please my engineering senses and feel. I was maybe my favorite commuter car ever, but was stupidly unreliable. Towed three times in 26k miles.
B5.5 ? What engine?
@@Bogdan00 W12
@@kevatut23Maybe w8
@@YOCOSMINMAX16 no, w12
As far as I know you were able to get the VR6 Phaeton with a manual gearbox, although I don't know if that was available in the UK. There is a few for sale in Germany.
And FWD to boot.
And also a W8 version 😃🇩🇪 I live in Denmark..
Back in the day I saw both and W8 and the W12, in the city I live in…
Massive car😎🤟🏻🇩🇪
@@audimetallica There was no W8 version.
@@Inflator82 google is your friend ;)
Then lets agree on a V8 version..
Had 3 Phaetons, 2 LWB and a shorty. Fantastic cars. They did have a habit of corroding, not through rust but where steel met aluminium, pretty much all around the car. Avoid the V10 as its noisier and no faster than the V6 diesel. The V12 is hugely thirsty and still no improvement over the V6
It is interesting the British take on the 1990s VW car line verses the states. VW had always been a car line of the 1960s and hippies. By the time I was in high school in the 1990s in Oklahoma, I never saw new vw cars. When I was shopping for my first car, I really wanted a VR6 VW Corrado. My dad refused saying that VW were shit and bought me a 1994 Pontiac grand am...it lasted 18 months. It was not until the new vw beetle that I thought about buying a vw...and they were most popular model around while I was in college. I remember when the phaeton came out and really liked it. Great review, keep up the good work!
Awesome car. Drove the W12 when it came out. Deserved more recognition.
I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry also worried about, "where to park issues?"
My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & is my everyday car now. It's corner handling & road handling equals the "Bentley Class."
Removed the
DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job.
Both Front bulbs were done for £40.
I think Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
Here in Ireland I passed out my taxi exam in 2012. Phaeton V6 diesel was towards the top of my list. Couldn't find one. Says it all. Still, cool.
Thanks... A lot... the last two videos (this and the Alpine) have both been about cars I desperately try to resist buying on a monthly basis. Having reminders in video form really doesn't help my TVR fund.
There'll be a TVR video soon!
Well at least that will keep me somewhat on track! I still enjoyed the videos even though they tempt me to be bad, thanks!
I drove a W12 Phaeton in early 2004 as a company car delivery driver. I collected it from the head office of the Halifax building society and drove it the 200 miles back to base. The seats are amazing - 20 years ago they had more little electric motors in them than most cars! The performance was pretty epic too, and it was enormously comfy and quiet (and pretty enormous on some of the smaller roads). After that, I always wanted to own one, but a friend ran a small fleet of luxury cabs, and had a few - they were always breaking. When the regular V6 diesel breaks loads and costs a huge amount to fix, you definitely think twice about the idea of a W12. Wish I had had the money and balls to buy one though- it would be the car to have for long distance driving.
Only yesterday I was asking myself why you didnt review a Phaeton yet. An upcoming classic with, at least in Germany and an eastern europe, a loving fanbase already.
Too bad your example doesnt have any of the extras that make the car worth buying.
I will always remember my ride sharing journey in a Phaeton through Germany as a student, back when it was fairly new. Such a great long distance car.
I would love an understated car like this. Would not mind at all if people confused it for a Passat. Just means the one who catches what it is will be most likely interesting. Making small talk worth it.
Seems like you probably want the dealer to make the same mistake - charge you Passat prices for a Phaeton service.
Much of the Phaeton was repurposed by Bentley to become the 1st generation Bentley Continental GT. They even kept the same steering wheel.
I had the Flying Spur w12, FANTASTIC petrol engine, but I need to be the Underdog not flash Harry also worried about,
"where to park issues?"
My 3.0tdi Phaeton ticks all the boxes & is my everyday car now. It's corner handling & road handling equals the "Bentley Class."
Removed the
DPF & remapped for £400 a simply job.
Both Front bulbs were done for £40.
I think Barry is getting RAPED by his specialist.
I took the GT from 2005 and shortly after a 2014. I’d always wanted a Bentley, and yes, they were fabulous, but just missed the mark for me. Not quite special enough to warrant the worry, like you say. Shame, but those engines were sweet (both W12 versions).
I am Chinese, and i lived in US about 8 years. Chinese love this car because of stealth wealth. I really like pheaton. I watched almost every pheaton car reviews I can find. But, I bought Volvo xc90...
I watched your review from start to finish..thanks!
Always called these the Passat XL. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
I used to deliver these when they came out and I fell in love with them.
Great job 👍
Very interesting and entertaining video, thanks. But how does the car now get through an MOT with its DPF and EGR removed?!
I saw one rolling around Los Angeles years ago with a Jetta badges on it. Confusing but cool! Very few people caught on.
Was it a failure though? In hindsight it’s clear to me that it was really a test bed for the Bentley flying spur and others. Vw had a lot more money to play with than Bentley
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
You missed out the
Infamous VW
2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans.
So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.
@@Sub-Kuch13.13 I think it’s safe to say that the car as a product was a flop but the platform as a product was a big success.
In america the dealers repair costs were astronomical and consumers ran away rather quickly and resale pricing plummeted.. pretty much true of all german luxury cars...
I heard that VW planned another "luxury" sedan between the Passat and Phaeton to be developed with Maserati. It was to use the same chassis as the Quattroporte. They even developed a
4.0 W8 for the car. But with the apparent failure of the Phaeton made them scrap the idea and use the 4.0 W8 for other cars. including the Passat W8.
Timeline doesn’t match up because the W8 Passat came out before the Phaeton
Would love to see a Vectra VXR on the channel. Very underrated cars.
I remember these coming and for some reason being giddy with excitement!!! Must have been the name or something 🤔 I have to say its the identical looks to a Passat that really kills it for me. Here's another brother from another mother VW to review James.....the Passat CC 😐
I'm the proud owner of the first Phaeton P4 W8 2004 and I love it! 16,924 original miles!
Yes it was a flop for VW brand but not for the VW group! The amount of cars that were built on this platform sold well. As You said Bentley especially.
Well said, NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
I know someone who owned one. He owned it for 2 years, out of which it had spent about 4 months in garages having things fixed. It was an utter disaster!
I lusted after a v10 tdi Phaeton for quite a while whilst I had a d2 A8 4.2q, I drove a 3.2 lwb Phaeton & was hugely underwhelmed by it to be honest, lots of niggles & the 3.2 felt horribly out of place in such a car. I like the story but the equivalent S Class is a much better drive, all are aflicted by massive bills. 100k cars are still 100k cars even if you pay a fraction to buy one!
Peugeot 607 3.0 V6 with all the goods was a bit similar car as the Phaeton. It didn't have the correct badge so it wasn't "accepted" in the luxury car segment. But in the best trim it sure was a good car. Not quite up to Phaeton V12-level but right up there with A6 Audis, etc. Just think about it... almost all brands had a model for this segment in the 70's and 80's. Ford Granada 2.8i Ghia, Opel Senator/Monza, Fiat Croma, Citroen CX/XM, Alfa 164, Saab 9000, etc. Now it belongs MB, BMW and Audi. They have total monopoly in the class. I'm not even sure if Jaguar continues with the XF in the future.
The rumor that i heard is that VW wanted to build a new car for their newly purchase Bentley but couldn’t get the necessary budget for R&D. So the phaeton project is born which in turn produce the Continental GT, Flying Spur which basically secures Bentley future.
It's not an unbelievable tale - the Passat W8 was essentially a proving ground for the Bentley W16, and this W12 was another step on
Probably shouldn't mention the DPF removal. It's illegal for on road use in the UK and can fail an MOT if detected.
You, Alex Kersten, Matt from High Peak.
Top gear re-booted and back to its roots.
Calling it now.
Enjoyed your video on the VW Phaeton. Sat in a few at Motor Shows but the VW Passat look doesn't sit comfortably with this car. VW should have tried harder with the styling.
I'm a Jag Man, on my 5th. Keeping my current XJ8 Sovereign LWB (X308) despite its foibles and 208k mileage. Last of the Jags where you can source spares at reasonable cost and find an informative specialist with sensible labour rates. Watching the video reminded me that I can still change a light bulb, no air suspension problems, etc. I have friends with later Jag models who shell out a fortune on replacement components and lengthy labour costs!
My problem is, what do I replace my worthless Jaguar with...especially when neighbour's tell me to "never replace that car". You see they perceive the vehicle as an expensive classic car. I had better continue to keep it clean and well polished.
Have you checked out Mercedes or BMW, or Lexus? A 5 Series doesn't look identical the a 7 Series? And nearly all Mercedes models look alike. Kinda like the way all manufactures build there cars.
I bought a nice sample with low kms in Germany for 5500 euros. Affordable and great to drive. Unfortunately, the top speed remained at 140 kilometers per hour, because both turbos were broken. The repair would have cost around 5,000 euros.
With beoken turbos u should have bought it much cheaper.
I’ll tell you how it happened badge snobbery “why have a vw when I could have a Bentley or a an Audi “ 😅 I’d pick the VW as it’s understated luxury
So true.
But NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
Excellent video James! I’ve always thought these were cool but being in the US, you NEVER see them. Neat piece of automotive history imo. Cheers!
I like Phaetons - they are really well build. I might understand why he is running without DPF as that is expensive to replace (however, I do not support that), but why would someone not put in new EGR if the original did fail? The DPFs on these cars last really long distances and usually fail due to other issues with engine (injectors, turbo, thermostats) or due to unsuitable driving conditions (short distances with low average speed) as those early DPFs needed certain circumstances to perform DPF regeneration. Otherwise these engine may run 300k miles if maintained properly.
300k mi or km?
@@demri123 Have seen these engines running 500k kms or 300k+ miles
0:21 The timing of that piece to camera, talking about the jewel that shouldn't have flopped while being overtaken by the turd that should have flopped but didn't.
When a VW tries to sell at AUDI prices. In the states, Phaeton sold only in V8 and W12 for I think a couple model years, the W8 was in the Passat with 4-motion in manual or automatic for one year, then the CC came out when VW tried to call that the new Passat and VW fans were not having it that CC became a stand alone model. Seen a couple Phaetons around with V8 and super low mileage, the owners will not part with them. They look nice.
This review sums up the phaeton perfectly. I remember clearly that around 2000, Volkswagen could do no wrong: many of their cars were claimed to be superior to their rivals and it was for many, many people their only go-to brand. But I get the impression that because of that perception Ferdinand Piëch became a bit too much of a megalomaniac and the phaeton was like the first sign of him stretching the companies luck too far. Even back then I wondered who would be interested in an expensive executive saloon that looked like a stretched-out passat, especially at a time when Skoda introduced litteraly a car like that, their first post-war superb. Still wonder why you would want one today, especially with maintenance costs like that, so those low asking prices to me make perfect sense; I think I'd refuse it if someone gave me one for free.
Stunning car. It’s very simple…people are not willing to pay $100K for a Volkswagen. That’s it. Great car. As a used car, you need huge funds for service and repairs. It could prove to be a nightmare, unless you get lucky.
The design parameters were 'simple':
Cruise at 130 mph,
in 105° F while maintaining
an interior of 72°.
Design parameters were met.
If you've seen the second-gen Phaeton prototype, I can only imagine how desirable that car would be.
Pity the interior got the god-awful touchscreen and touch-sensitive buttons. The exterior, in my opinion, is handsome.
Back when VW were adventurous!
Speaking of which would you review a W12 Touareg if having the chance?
I know of one person who owns one.
That's when the greatest invention are made. You have to be a risk taker to move forward. Otherwise, you just stagnate.
Very cool video and sensible advice. It is interesting how well the looks of this car have aged.
Great video as usual James. I even enjoyed the drive by of the Focus!!!
🤔 I remember the Phaeton for a brief time. Yes it was quite the exciting thing to see on the road, but only us car guys could tell the difference between it and the Passat.
Hey Jay, speaking of the W12, should it be possible to get a hold of a Volkswagen W12 Nardo for review, I would much like to see that happen. Cheers. ✌🏻🇺🇸
I sampled a cooking v6tdi which was pretty nice at the time, and then I drove the v10, now THAT was a real weapon. What really pit me off is the complexity of the thing, and horrendous bills to keep it alive, at least on the earlier ones.
Major expense for suspension, servicing, headlights etc....
Think the v10 was a better bet because most of the mechanicals were gear driven
A flop is not the right word. The inchassis of the Phaeton was used in the hugely successful Bentley Continental Gen I Other offsprings in the VW concern are Passat CC etc.
So true.
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
I got a good chuckle that you included the Ford focus drive by Jay 😂
Glad you enjoyed!
@@JayEmmOnCars Complete with a big poppy 😆
At 16:00 minutes , that aforementioned Ford Focus does its drive-by. I think he even flashed his lights!
Yeah, I also noticed it and was about to comment. I think Jays chucking an Easter Egg into the vid for a bit of a laugh! 😄
Glad someone appreciated it
I'm a big Vw fan but this is for someone who wants the luxury without the attention
Perfect for the Underdog & NO
"Where do I park it Issues??"
If only more cars were sold for 15 years. The BMW E90 could still be sold today as a new car. It's far nicer than the new models for sure.
NOT a FLOP,
due to the numbers sold under
Bentley Spur & Conti,
Porches Panamera,
Audi A8.
All thanks to the underpinnings & development of the humble Phaeton.
Making VW millions,
all due to people being Badge HAPPY.
You missed out the
Infamous VW
2.5tdi COGS TIMINGS SYSTEM the best of the Germans.
So fantastic, that the parts department didn't make any money, until they got over hauled at 500k mileage. Hence they stopped selling them.