“While those (power numbers) might sound low, the BRZ (FRS / 86) is an example of a car that raises the heart rate not with its overwhelming power, but with its thoughtful engineering. Its the balance and handling that will really steal your heart” Well said Jessi.
the first mod is always the DRIVER. get lots of seat time around town, go to an autocross and hire an instructor to ride with you, take some HPDE classes. only after you are comfortable with the friction circle and limits of your car should you think about upgrading tires, forced induction, etc. You want to go faster by driving faster rather than driving a faster car. the BRZ/FRS is the perfect car to practice stick shift, drifting, burnouts, heel toe, autocross, circuits, etc. Getting forced induction or stickier tires will simply get you in trouble much quicker.
The beauty of the BRZ’s suspension tune is it remained very predictable with the tire/wheel upgrade. The limit got higher, and the peak a bit more narrow (versus the very wide peak/gradual break away of the O.E. tires). But this car communicates so well that it was easy to go faster with the upgraded tires. It doesn’t bite when you get to the limit, you know right where it is.
But all in all, the tires are the most important thing. They just added on the wheels because they could. In real life, tires are the best bang-for-buck first modification.
To all the people saying an exhaust would be a better first mod... lol. Just LOL. Exhaust won't give you much for shit in a performance increase. GTFO with that. Wheels and tires are absolutely the easiest thing you can do first and best bang for your buck.
(Reply Part 2 of 2) But in most instances you can change the personality of the vehicle by changing the tires, which is what Jessi wanted to do in this project. Some tires change the ride quality; others provide additional winter traction or in this case improve the dry and wet traction. The Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires helped make the most of Subaru’s great chassis and suspension. Had we put on “cheap” replacement tires we’re certain the car’s handling would suffer.
I felt a big difference when I installed 57dr gramlights 17x9, Michelin pilot sport a/s 3, 245/40/17 on my FR-S. Changing the tires really do change how the car takes corners, great for autox and track on stock suspension.
Mario S not really, the stock suspension handles really well. With my wheel and tire setup I get great grip and better handling than the stock tires. Coilover are not a must, the proper wheels and tires is all this car needs to handle better than stock. Of course, later down the road I would upgrade to coilovers, but its not really as important as set of wheels and tires.
i know this is super late but hope you reply. I want more grip on my Toyota 86 . It slides too easily :( Love everything about the car except that part. I'm not big on modifications because one changes leads to more expensive changes. Just want to make the slightest change and get better grip . What is your setting on your FRS and if you still have the Michelin PSS 245/40/17 ?Thank u. also, can you post a few pics of your car on your channel- thanks!
(Reply Part 2 of 2) Going up in wheel diameter (same width wheel & tire) will usually improve responsiveness, but there is a point of diminishing returns where ultimate handling & ride quality are compromised by the lower tire profile. You can think of it like a bell curve. The trick is to find out how close your reference point is to the peak of the curve (the sweet slot). We’ve found that wheel weight does have an effect, but it takes more than a few pounds to create a measurable difference.
The tires that come with these cars are notoriously slippery. When mine hit 38k I kept the wheels and threw on Potenza RE11A's. The improvement was dramatic, just as she experienced. I don't get to drift as much, though. Too sticky. :(
A few mistakes made in this video that people should be aware of and the obvious as well. Larger tire obviously means larger contact patch, of course there is going to be more confidence into the turn. Plus when she did the lap on the original set it was only her in the car, on the new tires there were two people. Thus, the weight distribution is evened out better and keeps the car a bit more stable. Also, DO NOT torque down your lug nuts while the car is jacked. Snug them up tight, lower the car, than check the torque specs to eliminate risk. A good safety procedure to practice is to put a rim under the car because of an accidental drop and don't forget to chock your wheels.
Andy. Cantiello. It is a larger contact patch, they are not changing the circumference of the tire from stock (the second number out of the three numbers to distinguish a tire size ex. 225/50R16) to whatever they like because if you go a larger or smaller circumference tire the speedometer would need to be adjusted. They put a tire on with a larger width which is the first number in tire sizing, more millimetres obviously means larger contact patch. Yes, the contact patch shape does change but the concept still stays, it creates a larger contact patch because it is wider thus larger contact patch equals more grip.
what a stupid reply. Obviously it is assumed that if you put on a larger tire on a sports car it will result in a larger contact patch. Why would u put on a larger tire on a sports car if its not wider. (unless to accommodate larger rims)
sl66ICEcuba I am well aware of what the numbers mean. You are incorrect in saying, "more millimeters obviously means larger contact patch." A WIDER tire simply means a WIDER contact patch (and shorter). The AREA of the patch remains relatively constant. The addition of wider tires makes the contact patch wider and shorter which helps with cornering but decreases straight line traction (as well as weigh more which affects performance). The contact patch area is a function of tire inflation pressure and weight acting on it. marshallrhayes Do some research before saying my reply is stupid.
Dude...... if draw a square 5 inches by 5 inches and another square 5 inches by 6 inches are you gonna try and tell me the area for both squares are the same? lol. A normal tire will have less total contact patch than a tire that is the same height except wider. Thus it will have more traction. This is why drag cars have tires that are like a foot or two wide. For more traction. (contact patch) What you are saying defies the laws of simple physics.
OEM tires and wheels: 215/45R17 87W Michelin Primacy HP Grand Touring Summer category 17x7.0" OEM wheels Performance tire and wheel upgrade: 245/35R18 (92Y) Michelin Pilot Super Sport Max Performance Summer category 18x8.0" OZ Alleggerita HLT wheels Jessi
The wheels didn't do it the tires did. You're chaning the suspension geometry by putting larger wheels on it. Chances are it'd handle even better with 17's and performance tires than with 18's and performance tires.
Jessi didn’t get a chance to do a road ride evaluation to compare before & after ride quality. But with all things being equal, there can be a modest reduction in ride quality as the wheel gets bigger & the tire’s sidewall gets shorter. Differences between 2 tires in the same size can have almost as large an effect on their own, so how much of a difference in ride quality there is between A & B ultimately depends on what A and B are, more so than a flat assumption that B is always worse than A.
Each O.E. Subaru tire and wheel assembly weighs 41.4 pounds, while the 18” performance tire and wheel package Jessi installed actually weighed one pound less per assembly.
+Takahashi Ryosuke Nope paint the brake calipers red instant 5% hp gain and change the blinker fluid to low friction for faster turn in. then add your go fast stickers lol
Jessi, I have a Subaru BRZ, and I'm worried that changing the tires and wheels to be stickier would reduce some of the cars tail-happiness and fun factor, even if it is slower. You didn't really address the fun factor after the tire change, just that it made the car faster. I'd be thrilled if you could shed a little light on that area for me!
(Reply Part 1 of 2) Great questions, without a simple answer, it's somewhat dependent on the products used. Ride and handling are both impacted by changes in wheel width and diameter, but how much depends on the test tire’s characteristics. But to summarize a variety of past tests and anecdotal experience, we’ve found that wider wheels (same tire width and wheel diameter) help responsiveness and handling but can make the tire ride somewhat more firmly.
This isn't even about modifying the car, it's just a fucking advertisement for tire rack. Putting some wider tires on a BRZ before adding a tire is a must, though. Every journalist mentions how thin and easy to slide the stock wheels are.
(Reply Part 1 of 2) We’d argue that routine maintenance uses “equivalent” product when doing the service. In the case of tires, that would mean re-using more of the O.E. tires when you replace the worn out tires, giving you the same ride and handling as when the car rolled off the showroom floor. True, some replacement tires don’t “feel” any different than what you had on the car before.
+chemicallust77 fuck turbos ;) it would be a pitty to screw such a jewel engine with turbo. Get a supercharger instead. It's far better choice, and in this car you don't need speed, this car was made for drifting. There are better choices to make a sprinter ;)
nubserver he means you should know how to enter corners when to brake when to downshift with single clutch revmatching .. knowing the advantages of a manual gbox.. etc etc.. a drivers. car.. many idiots feel they are good drivers but they drive automatics and the car does everything else...that's what he means
It isn't that the GT86/BRZ is specifically a drift car, but rather because it is such a neutral and predictable handling car it allows the driver to drift pretty easily. Like with other great handling vehicles, it is more of a track car, the chassis is very stiff and handles turn in and body roll extremely well.
for street, which most people are going to buy the brz/86/frs for, tyres arent really something youd consider most important as a mod. first change the exhaust system entirely, and also cold air intake. if you got the bucks, supercharge dat shit.
ha, you can, if its a high quality, racing exhaust kit with cold air intake (perrin etc.) your gonna get about 30bhp not 5, it does make a difference in terms of getting the rev counter out of the lows quicker so chill out roy lad. and stiffer + lower suspension kit should also be considered if u want a more sharper handling response from a car of this sort
K Singh need rims that look better but with the same width so you can still do some mad skids :D don't think the stock rims look that good but i think you kind of defeat the purpose of the car by putting wider tires on there.
I really like mine. Fast enough it can do 140 & I have gotten 40 mpg. I people criticize the engine noise but I have actually grown quite fond of the noises. It sings and changes tones from 3 grand all the way to redline and back down. I fn love this car. And I do like how slick the original tires are I can whip the back out super easy when tuning into a street.
Dani Kimbro Don't forget high lift, low duration cams and higher CC injectors, Those two, on top of a short ram intake and header back exhaust, are more than enough for a daily/goof off car in terms of power gain throughout the entire power band. Also don't cost as much as a proper turbo setup.
casey360360 Really we need to remember this is essentially a WRX engine. Thats both good and bad. Bad because the WRX has 4 wheel drive so a peeky turbo doesn't make much difference to that car while here it makes a huge difference. Good though in that there are tons of internal mods already out there to build power, there are cams, pistons, flywheels, pullys, you name it for this engine there are parts out there, and all can be used practically bolt over, as long as you take toyotas direct injection system into account when you do it.
tire and wheel upgrades really are a must. When I got my 07 Yaris hatch, first thing I did was put in 15" Konig Heliums with 195/55 Falken Ziex. HUGE difference. Now it has K/N box filter, front strut bar, tanabe lowering springs, and Megan Racing axel back exhaust. Hella fun to drive.
I agree with you dude. Women are just as capable as us guys are when it comes to the automotive industry. Would love to work on a car with a women and maybe learn something in the process.
MrCHaoS1236 F=uFn is an approximation. There are actually a few situations where this approximation is wrong, one of which is tires and anything tacky. Tires and rubber in general generates friction similar to the way the glue on tape does. As such it is dependent on surface area and has a surface area component to its equation. This is one of the reasons that wider tires grip better than skinnier tires, and is also behind the reason that hotter tires grip better than colder tires. I study physics at Florida International University so this answer can be trusted.
Dani Kimbro I agree with you that coulomb's approximation has its limits and that it doesn't work for conjoined surfaces (such as tacky surfaces). I also know that f=uFn is an approximation on molecular scale. My problem is that a normal road tyre isn't tacky like a slick tyre so therefore f=uF works and therefore the contact area has little affect. Now what is interesting is that you said you can prove that the contact area has great affect by experimentation. So i will actually do some experiments and I'll come back to you as soon as I have some results. I'm not going to argue with someone who has experience without actual data. :)
dont forget, extremely low profile tires also tend to slide more while higher profile tires tend to dig in more thus improving cornering speed... not to forget the higher cost and of course diminished/harsh ride quality. the final thing to consider is that going with a smaller diameter wheel also lowers unsprung weight and most importantly has a direct effect on gearing (raising rpm) which in performance driving situations is always a bonus.
Keep your stock wheels and use them for street driving. Bolt on the other tires when you go to the track or autocross. On my track S2000 I have a street wheel set and a track wheel set. It works out really well. By the way, I just test drove this car and I really enjoyed it. It would be great to get out on the track with one. Enjoy it man!
the fast time came from the performance tyre compound is greater than the stock, even u use the stock rim, but change for the smaller size say 205 45 r17 semi slicks ( toyo R888 etc ), the result is drastically, so the common misleading for the media is always come to the width, but if you wanna prove it, pls use the equal context, use the same compound tyre but wider tyre, the result come to ur lap time will not get so fast unless the width u choose extend to some level.
Yea, this is why the handling of the car is so lively with the stock setup. The tires have so little grip that you can get the back end to slide all over the place even though the engine barely produces any torque. Honestly I like the idea of making a cheap sports-car more fun to drive rather than having lower lap times.
I love Jessi!! Not only does really know her stuff, but she's also always happy and fun... so adorable when starts running thru the warehouse lol more vids plz :D
If you want a track car this is what you should do people are ragging on the fact that this car is primarily for drifting... but most people (in America at least) will take a car to a track or drag strip way before they go out drifting... I also want to know if she is single haha great video with a gorgeous host cant go wrong there!
Going from a 17" rim with a higher profile to a 18" rim with a lower profile allows for the overall diameter of the rim+tire to remain the same. This keeps the speedo accurate and keeps the car within spec while still getting the benefits of a lower profile tire. In addition, good quality aftermarket wheels are stronger and lighter than wheels fitted from the factory.
It makes sense that upgrading the tires on this car would have such an effect on handling. The standard tires on those cars are the same tires as on a Prius!
If you wanna slide around get a quad or go drive on a dirt road with any car. Sticking to the road far beyond what the stock tires and wheels allow is IMHO just as fun and satisfying. The problem then might be just finding more twisty roads to try out and see how well the tires hold. I believe this combo does make sense and IMHO is more fun, then again I like speed, most especially around corners.
threshold grip will not change with a different diameter but it does change a lot of things such as wheel inertia, weight, and tire sidewall stiffness. So it does make a difference when selecting wheels and tires. There have been tests in grassroots motorsports where a bigger wheel will perform better on track. It doesn't change wheel alignment or the speed sensor as long as you choose the appropriate aspect ratio. It's a very complex subject that needs to be addressed.
The BRZ was designed specifically in the tradition of the legendary 86, which means thinner tires but extremely well balanced controlled slides. Beefing up the tires would make it hard to swing the back end out, and more specifically, hard to swing it out in a controlled, linear manner.
I'm all for increased grip, when needed. But the stock tire choice of this car was to give the driver a delicate handling balance and to be able to have a lovely little slide when traction breaks.
well anyway, I do agree with changing to better tires as the first upgrade. accelerate faster, turn faster, stop faster. why they chose to illustrate that with the added confusion of larger, wider tires on top of that I really don't get.
well, in the case of modding a car, wheels and tires are always the first that should be done. Now, of course, if you aren't going to add horsepower there is no reason to upgrade the tires, but if you do, you'll probably want a bit more grip to handle the power. The BRZ, to me, seems like the perfect car to mod. Just like the AE86 the car is inspired from.
I remember reading the print article on this topic and I believe they obtained the best results by keeping the rims the same and just swapping out the tires. When they did try to upsize the wheels and tires together, I could have sworn they said they didn't get any performance increase (and possibly a performance decrease) when compared to the 17" rims and better tires.
It was given undersized tires to make it cheaper. The fact you can drift easier is an added bonus but if you want performance - which is what people seem to want - you need grip to actually put the power down.
I have been able to personally compare different tires at the same size. I switched from all season tires to summer tires at one point. The grip off the line with the summer tires in the wet was significantly better than that of the all season. Cornering was also much better and despite the same tire size, response was much quicker. This of course was the same in the dry weather. In the snow however, the all season tire provided better stopping and grip. The summer tire could not match.
people who think you shouldn't change the stock 17x7 215 primacy probably don't own an frs or brz. it's not the tires that allows the car to drift easy or makes it fun to drive. it's the way it's engineered through balanced chassis, steering feel, low centered mass and an awesome tranny feel that is even better than the 6speed sti. with wider wheels and better tires this car will drift just as easy, just drifts at a faster cornering speed which adds to the fun.
This would be my DREAM job!!! I'm currently a valet and I parked a Scion Fr-S with the 6 speed manual and it was amazing, but too short of a drive. That must be the best job in the world!
I changed out my stock 15" wheels/tires for 16" police steelies and federal summer tires and quickly noticed a HUGE difference in handling, no more did the car do those crazy 70's power-slides at ...25 mph, it stuck to the road like glue, after the tires my next mod would have been brakes and suspension, but I no linger have it.
The first modification you should make to these twins is the Vortech Supercharger. Which just might be the ONLY mod you'll really need depending on your driving habits
Biggest improvement to lap times is a tire upgrade. You can get usually around 2 seconds better lap times without an increase in power or change in suspension. No other mod can do that so easily and so cheaply.
Right, you don't have to increase diameter, just width and type (summer vs. A/S). However bigger wheels (diameter) won't upset speed setting if you go with a proper +1 sizing, the calculation remains very similar. 205/55-16 to 215/45-17 for example (common Subaru size upgrade). Plus if you go with lightweight wheels, that potentially decreases unsprung weight, if the new tires are equal to, or lighter than the OEM ones.
part of the difference is when the temperatures get cold. Not sure where you're located, but if the temps drop below 40*F then they start to lose traction because the rubber hardens up due to the cold. in theory, All Seasons will be the same below that temp.
Is "Modifying the Subaru BRZ" going to be a sub series part of WOT? I'd love to see you guys do more of these videos where you look for the best upgrades that don't break the bank that produce better performance such as maybe an aftermarket intake, exhaust, stuff like that. Great episode Jessi, I really enjoyed it!
It is nice to see the difference in tire size. I understand the prius tires were put on for a more fun driving experience but it sure does not help in lap times. My only question is that even though the wheels were changed from 17 to 18, the most important question is what the wdth difference was. It did say an inch difference in wheel width but never stated tire width size. Also, all car enthusiasts know that you upgrade in certain order. Driver mod, then tires, then suspesnsion/brakes.
agreed, sidenote: bigger rims will also necessitate thinner sidewalls for more road feel but at the expense of some NVH. i would get 18s with crappy tires so i can slide but i can feel the road more.
were those michelin pilot super sport? its hard to tell by tread (used to have PSS on my old car) if so then theres still the option of much stickier tires for track even before suspension/alignment parts = yay
Road and track tested the same idea with an FRS and did a much better job of it. If you're going after improved lap times you do want a slightly wider tire and significantly stickier one; however, because the BRZ and FRS are a bit underpowered you want an equal or smaller overall diameter to give you shorter gearing (improves acceleration).
The number one modification a driver should make... is himself. Being a capable driver is worth 10x whatever a set of tires is. Nothing like being able to launch out better then the next guy at the strip, or maintain speed while hitting apexes, etc. Driver is #1 mod. Tires can be #2.
jessi is so charming! her makeup was a bit unlucky in this episode but that doesnt mean i think shes less cute. also very informative...only downside: premium tires cost a fortune
“While those (power numbers) might sound low, the BRZ (FRS / 86) is an example of a car that raises the heart rate not with its overwhelming power, but with its thoughtful engineering. Its the balance and handling that will really steal your heart”
Well said Jessi.
This is a great commercial for Tire Rack that also includes a car.
Yeah I agree ☝🏼
So I just watched a 10 minute ad for tirerack
Well played tirerack
So glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for taking the time to send us your feedback!
Jessi
the first mod is always the DRIVER. get lots of seat time around town, go to an autocross and hire an instructor to ride with you, take some HPDE classes. only after you are comfortable with the friction circle and limits of your car should you think about upgrading tires, forced induction, etc. You want to go faster by driving faster rather than driving a faster car. the BRZ/FRS is the perfect car to practice stick shift, drifting, burnouts, heel toe, autocross, circuits, etc. Getting forced induction or stickier tires will simply get you in trouble much quicker.
only comment section where they talk about the car more than the girl. the BRZ is awesome.
i love how the lady doesnt use her body to get your attention, as well as isnt ditsy or trying too hard,
bravo, i wish there were more people like you
The beauty of the BRZ’s suspension tune is it remained very predictable with the tire/wheel upgrade. The limit got higher, and the peak a bit more narrow (versus the very wide peak/gradual break away of the O.E. tires). But this car communicates so well that it was easy to go faster with the upgraded tires. It doesn’t bite when you get to the limit, you know right where it is.
But all in all, the tires are the most important thing. They just added on the wheels because they could. In real life, tires are the best bang-for-buck first modification.
I like Jessi she is genuine and doesn't act, she's real.
To all the people saying an exhaust would be a better first mod... lol. Just LOL. Exhaust won't give you much for shit in a performance increase. GTFO with that. Wheels and tires are absolutely the easiest thing you can do first and best bang for your buck.
(Reply Part 2 of 2)
But in most instances you can change the personality of the vehicle by changing the tires, which is what Jessi wanted to do in this project. Some tires change the ride quality; others provide additional winter traction or in this case improve the dry and wet traction. The Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires helped make the most of Subaru’s great chassis and suspension. Had we put on “cheap” replacement tires we’re certain the car’s handling would suffer.
I felt a big difference when I installed 57dr gramlights 17x9, Michelin pilot sport a/s 3, 245/40/17 on my FR-S. Changing the tires really do change how the car takes corners, great for autox and track on stock suspension.
Did u need to get coilovers for those wheels?
Mario S not really, the stock suspension handles really well. With my wheel and tire setup I get great grip and better handling than the stock tires. Coilover are not a must, the proper wheels and tires is all this car needs to handle better than stock. Of course, later down the road I would upgrade to coilovers, but its not really as important as set of wheels and tires.
i know this is super late but hope you reply. I want more grip on my Toyota 86 . It slides too easily :( Love everything about the car except that part. I'm not big on modifications because one changes leads to more expensive changes. Just want to make the slightest change and get better grip . What is your setting on your FRS and if you still have the Michelin PSS 245/40/17 ?Thank u. also, can you post a few pics of your car on your channel- thanks!
(Reply Part 2 of 2)
Going up in wheel diameter (same width wheel & tire) will usually improve responsiveness, but there is a point of diminishing returns where ultimate handling & ride quality are compromised by the lower tire profile. You can think of it like a bell curve. The trick is to find out how close your reference point is to the peak of the curve (the sweet slot). We’ve found that wheel weight does have an effect, but it takes more than a few pounds to create a measurable difference.
The tires that come with these cars are notoriously slippery. When mine hit 38k I kept the wheels and threw on Potenza RE11A's. The improvement was dramatic, just as she experienced. I don't get to drift as much, though. Too sticky. :(
The Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires are 245/35R18, and the OZ Alleggerita HLT wheels are 18x8.0 ET48.
This was a great video and the awesome energy of the host made it even better!
A few mistakes made in this video that people should be aware of and the obvious as well. Larger tire obviously means larger contact patch, of course there is going to be more confidence into the turn. Plus when she did the lap on the original set it was only her in the car, on the new tires there were two people. Thus, the weight distribution is evened out better and keeps the car a bit more stable. Also, DO NOT torque down your lug nuts while the car is jacked. Snug them up tight, lower the car, than check the torque specs to eliminate risk. A good safety procedure to practice is to put a rim under the car because of an accidental drop and don't forget to chock your wheels.
Larger tire does not mean larger contact patch. The size of the tire changes the SHAPE of the contact patch.
Andy. Cantiello. It is a larger contact patch, they are not changing the circumference of the tire from stock (the second number out of the three numbers to distinguish a tire size ex. 225/50R16) to whatever they like because if you go a larger or smaller circumference tire the speedometer would need to be adjusted. They put a tire on with a larger width which is the first number in tire sizing, more millimetres obviously means larger contact patch. Yes, the contact patch shape does change but the concept still stays, it creates a larger contact patch because it is wider thus larger contact patch equals more grip.
what a stupid reply. Obviously it is assumed that if you put on a larger tire on a sports car it will result in a larger contact patch. Why would u put on a larger tire on a sports car if its not wider. (unless to accommodate larger rims)
sl66ICEcuba I am well aware of what the numbers mean. You are incorrect in saying, "more millimeters obviously means larger contact patch." A WIDER tire simply means a WIDER contact patch (and shorter). The AREA of the patch remains relatively constant. The addition of wider tires makes the contact patch wider and shorter which helps with cornering but decreases straight line traction (as well as weigh more which affects performance). The contact patch area is a function of tire inflation pressure and weight acting on it. marshallrhayes Do some research before saying my reply is stupid.
Dude...... if draw a square 5 inches by 5 inches and another square 5 inches by 6 inches are you gonna try and tell me the area for both squares are the same? lol. A normal tire will have less total contact patch than a tire that is the same height except wider. Thus it will have more traction. This is why drag cars have tires that are like a foot or two wide. For more traction. (contact patch) What you are saying defies the laws of simple physics.
OEM tires and wheels:
215/45R17 87W Michelin Primacy HP
Grand Touring Summer category
17x7.0" OEM wheels
Performance tire and wheel upgrade:
245/35R18 (92Y) Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Max Performance Summer category
18x8.0" OZ Alleggerita HLT wheels
Jessi
The wheels didn't do it the tires did. You're chaning the suspension geometry by putting larger wheels on it. Chances are it'd handle even better with 17's and performance tires than with 18's and performance tires.
Jessi didn’t get a chance to do a road ride evaluation to compare before & after ride quality. But with all things being equal, there can be a modest reduction in ride quality as the wheel gets bigger & the tire’s sidewall gets shorter. Differences between 2 tires in the same size can have almost as large an effect on their own, so how much of a difference in ride quality there is between A & B ultimately depends on what A and B are, more so than a flat assumption that B is always worse than A.
"The 18 inch package performed better" hahahahahahhahahaha
I'd rather have 17's too. but a 255/40/17 , and not the stock 215/45/17 prius all seasons.
I rather have Michelin’s pilot sport AS 3+ plus 225/45/17
Each O.E. Subaru tire and wheel assembly weighs 41.4 pounds, while the 18” performance tire and wheel package Jessi installed actually weighed one pound less per assembly.
The first change a drive should make is, add some stickers. Instant power boost guaranteed.
+Takahashi Ryosuke so, are you going to a rematch with takumi?
+Takahashi Ryosuke Nope paint the brake calipers red instant 5% hp gain and change the blinker fluid to low friction for faster turn in. then add your go fast stickers lol
Jessi, I have a Subaru BRZ, and I'm worried that changing the tires and wheels to be stickier would reduce some of the cars tail-happiness and fun factor, even if it is slower. You didn't really address the fun factor after the tire change, just that it made the car faster. I'd be thrilled if you could shed a little light on that area for me!
HIIIII BIG FAN!!!!!
leaning forward out of the seat works my nerves! thats so ghetto
(Reply Part 1 of 2)
Great questions, without a simple answer, it's somewhat dependent on the products used. Ride and handling are both impacted by changes in wheel width and diameter, but how much depends on the test tire’s characteristics. But to summarize a variety of past tests and anecdotal experience, we’ve found that wider wheels (same tire width and wheel diameter) help responsiveness and handling but can make the tire ride somewhat more firmly.
This isn't even about modifying the car, it's just a fucking advertisement for tire rack.
Putting some wider tires on a BRZ before adding a tire is a must, though. Every journalist mentions how thin and easy to slide the stock wheels are.
The wheels are the O.Z. Alleggerita HLT (18x8 @ $441 per wheel) with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires (245/35/ZR18 @ $238 each).
You're welcome.
On behalf of all of us. Thank you !
Nice try TireRack...
(Reply Part 1 of 2)
We’d argue that routine maintenance uses “equivalent” product when doing the service. In the case of tires, that would mean re-using more of the O.E. tires when you replace the worn out tires, giving you the same ride and handling as when the car rolled off the showroom floor. True, some replacement tires don’t “feel” any different than what you had on the car before.
Says "football season"
Shows a marching band
Pretty sure it's marching band season
We updated the vehicle's Original Equipment wheels to 18x8 O.Z. Racing Alleggerita HLT wheels wrapped in 245/35R18 Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.
Question: Should I put mustard or mayonnaise on my sandwich?
Mayo.... :P
I usually go for both.
Let me ask my wife.
yes
Mustard
Wow, thanks a lot! I'm absolutely sure going from a 215 to a 245 completely transformed this car! Great, informative video!
What wheels and tires are those? Any specs on them?
+old12school3 Looks like O.Z. Racing Alleggerita HLT 18x8 with Michelin Pilot Super Sport 225/40r18. But that's just an educated guess!
okay thanks! I thought maybe 245's? idk
probably 245 rear 225 front
I love TireRack...tires are sooooooooooo important and by far one the most underrated mods out there. I just added this vid to my blog.
I'd still put a turbo on it :-)
chemicallust77 Crawford performance turbo kit good for 450whp and 500lb-ft :D
Whoa seriously? I knew they were good, I didn't know they were THAT good
+chemicallust77 fuck turbos ;) it would be a pitty to screw such a jewel engine with turbo. Get a supercharger instead. It's far better choice, and in this car you don't need speed, this car was made for drifting. There are better choices to make a sprinter ;)
geuros tbh,I'd have to agree...I'd probably procharge it instead of turbo.
It's true, and the weight-loss is unintentional. I have the flu to thank for that, but I'm stocking up on donuts and bagels to get things right.
Jessi
wait i thought the point of the brz was to be a drift car?
***** i don't get what you mean by a "driver's car".
you need to be able to drive to drive this car
WillShredForBread ahh
nubserver he means you should know how to enter corners when to brake when to downshift with single clutch revmatching .. knowing the advantages of a manual gbox.. etc etc.. a drivers. car.. many idiots feel they are good drivers but they drive automatics and the car does everything else...that's what he means
It isn't that the GT86/BRZ is specifically a drift car, but rather because it is such a neutral and predictable handling car it allows the driver to drift pretty easily. Like with other great handling vehicles, it is more of a track car, the chassis is very stiff and handles turn in and body roll extremely well.
The O.Z. Racing Alleggerita HLT wheels used on the BRZ were 18x8.
for street, which most people are going to buy the brz/86/frs for, tyres arent really something youd consider most important as a mod. first change the exhaust system entirely, and also cold air intake. if you got the bucks, supercharge dat shit.
i agree, a noisy exhaust with a 5 hp gain is much more important than stoping and turning
ha, you can, if its a high quality, racing exhaust kit with cold air intake (perrin etc.) your gonna get about 30bhp not 5, it does make a difference in terms of getting the rev counter out of the lows quicker so chill out roy lad. and stiffer + lower suspension kit should also be considered if u want a more sharper handling response from a car of this sort
***** true haha :D
K Singh need rims that look better but with the same width so you can still do some mad skids :D don't think the stock rims look that good but i think you kind of defeat the purpose of the car by putting wider tires on there.
K Singh then u have to spend 500$ on a tune! im glad i got rid of my wrx
I really like mine. Fast enough it can do 140 & I have gotten 40 mpg. I people criticize the engine noise but I have actually grown quite fond of the noises. It sings and changes tones from 3 grand all the way to redline and back down. I fn love this car. And I do like how slick the original tires are I can whip the back out super easy when tuning into a street.
First modification for a BRZ should be either a super charger or turbo. That's going to give you the largest performance boost.
adding forced induction before upgrading the tires would be very stupid.
I was going to say something but the peeps above have done it for me.
First tires, then brakes, then, if the suspension is good enough (which in this car it is), forced induction.
Dani Kimbro Don't forget high lift, low duration cams and higher CC injectors, Those two, on top of a short ram intake and header back exhaust, are more than enough for a daily/goof off car in terms of power gain throughout the entire power band. Also don't cost as much as a proper turbo setup.
casey360360 Really we need to remember this is essentially a WRX engine. Thats both good and bad. Bad because the WRX has 4 wheel drive so a peeky turbo doesn't make much difference to that car while here it makes a huge difference. Good though in that there are tons of internal mods already out there to build power, there are cams, pistons, flywheels, pullys, you name it for this engine there are parts out there, and all can be used practically bolt over, as long as you take toyotas direct injection system into account when you do it.
tire and wheel upgrades really are a must. When I got my 07 Yaris hatch, first thing I did was put in 15" Konig Heliums with 195/55 Falken Ziex. HUGE difference. Now it has K/N box filter, front strut bar, tanabe lowering springs, and Megan Racing axel back exhaust. Hella fun to drive.
Stick with a 17x9 with 245-40-17. You're welcome.
My thoughts are the same. Bigger rims most of the times means less tire to work with.
I agree with you dude. Women are just as capable as us guys are when it comes to the automotive industry. Would love to work on a car with a women and maybe learn something in the process.
does she really know about cars or tires performance? I doubt it.
People need to stop talking bad about her. Let her live her life. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
Definitely change the wheels, the stock wheels look ridiculously ugly.
MrCHaoS1236 F=uFn is an approximation. There are actually a few situations where this approximation is wrong, one of which is tires and anything tacky. Tires and rubber in general generates friction similar to the way the glue on tape does. As such it is dependent on surface area and has a surface area component to its equation. This is one of the reasons that wider tires grip better than skinnier tires, and is also behind the reason that hotter tires grip better than colder tires. I study physics at Florida International University so this answer can be trusted.
I have a masters in physics :). f= uF is not an approximation where did you get that?!?
Dani Kimbro I agree with you that coulomb's approximation has its limits and that it doesn't work for conjoined surfaces (such as tacky surfaces). I also know that f=uFn is an approximation on molecular scale. My problem is that a normal road tyre isn't tacky like a slick tyre so therefore f=uF works and therefore the contact area has little affect. Now what is interesting is that you said you can prove that the contact area has great affect by experimentation. So i will actually do some experiments and I'll come back to you as soon as I have some results. I'm not going to argue with someone who has experience without actual data. :)
Dani Kimbro crap...btw Dani Kimbro = Mizino7....stupid google.
I hope she isn't still with motor trend. She does absolutely nothing the whole video.
I'm about 5"4 in my shoes, and an inch or so shorter without them.
Jessi
The first change should be getting an S2000.
LOL
+Aesthetics45 But will that fit in my honda? ;) #MCM
That’s if you can find one
dont forget, extremely low profile tires also tend to slide more while higher profile tires tend to dig in more thus improving cornering speed... not to forget the higher cost and of course diminished/harsh ride quality. the final thing to consider is that going with a smaller diameter wheel also lowers unsprung weight and most importantly has a direct effect on gearing (raising rpm) which in performance driving situations is always a bonus.
ya cant expect me to take this vid seriously with a woman host
You can't expect the world to be good with people who blatantly discriminate like you.
The wheel is an 18" gold painted OZ racing Alleggerita HLT. The tire is a 245/35ZR18 Michelin; looks like the Pilot Super Sport
Keep your stock wheels and use them for street driving. Bolt on the other tires when you go to the track or autocross. On my track S2000 I have a street wheel set and a track wheel set. It works out really well. By the way, I just test drove this car and I really enjoyed it. It would be great to get out on the track with one. Enjoy it man!
the fast time came from the performance tyre compound is greater than the stock, even u use the stock rim, but change for the smaller size say 205 45 r17 semi slicks ( toyo R888 etc ), the result is drastically, so the common misleading for the media is always come to the width, but if you wanna prove it, pls use the equal context, use the same compound tyre but wider tyre, the result come to ur lap time will not get so fast unless the width u choose extend to some level.
Jessi, you just made this video a million times better :)
Yea, this is why the handling of the car is so lively with the stock setup. The tires have so little grip that you can get the back end to slide all over the place even though the engine barely produces any torque. Honestly I like the idea of making a cheap sports-car more fun to drive rather than having lower lap times.
I love Jessi!! Not only does really know her stuff, but she's also always happy and fun... so adorable when starts running thru the warehouse lol
more vids plz :D
If you want a track car this is what you should do people are ragging on the fact that this car is primarily for drifting... but most people (in America at least) will take a car to a track or drag strip way before they go out drifting... I also want to know if she is single haha great video with a gorgeous host cant go wrong there!
The O.Z. Racing wheels weigh 17.4 lbs. each.
Going from a 17" rim with a higher profile to a 18" rim with a lower profile allows for the overall diameter of the rim+tire to remain the same. This keeps the speedo accurate and keeps the car within spec while still getting the benefits of a lower profile tire. In addition, good quality aftermarket wheels are stronger and lighter than wheels fitted from the factory.
It makes sense that upgrading the tires on this car would have such an effect on handling. The standard tires on those cars are the same tires as on a Prius!
If you wanna slide around get a quad or go drive on a dirt road with any car. Sticking to the road far beyond what the stock tires and wheels allow is IMHO just as fun and satisfying. The problem then might be just finding more twisty roads to try out and see how well the tires hold. I believe this combo does make sense and IMHO is more fun, then again I like speed, most especially around corners.
threshold grip will not change with a different diameter but it does change a lot of things such as wheel inertia, weight, and tire sidewall stiffness. So it does make a difference when selecting wheels and tires. There have been tests in grassroots motorsports where a bigger wheel will perform better on track. It doesn't change wheel alignment or the speed sensor as long as you choose the appropriate aspect ratio. It's a very complex subject that needs to be addressed.
Its kinda sad that people are thinking that all season tires are good. Just buy some good summer tires and a set of decent winter tires.
The BRZ was designed specifically in the tradition of the legendary 86, which means thinner tires but extremely well balanced controlled slides. Beefing up the tires would make it hard to swing the back end out, and more specifically, hard to swing it out in a controlled, linear manner.
I'm all for increased grip, when needed. But the stock tire choice of this car was to give the driver a delicate handling balance and to be able to have a lovely little slide when traction breaks.
well anyway, I do agree with changing to better tires as the first upgrade. accelerate faster, turn faster, stop faster. why they chose to illustrate that with the added confusion of larger, wider tires on top of that I really don't get.
well, in the case of modding a car, wheels and tires are always the first that should be done. Now, of course, if you aren't going to add horsepower there is no reason to upgrade the tires, but if you do, you'll probably want a bit more grip to handle the power. The BRZ, to me, seems like the perfect car to mod. Just like the AE86 the car is inspired from.
I remember reading the print article on this topic and I believe they obtained the best results by keeping the rims the same and just swapping out the tires. When they did try to upsize the wheels and tires together, I could have sworn they said they didn't get any performance increase (and possibly a performance decrease) when compared to the 17" rims and better tires.
It was given undersized tires to make it cheaper. The fact you can drift easier is an added bonus but if you want performance - which is what people seem to want - you need grip to actually put the power down.
I have been able to personally compare different tires at the same size. I switched from all season tires to summer tires at one point. The grip off the line with the summer tires in the wet was significantly better than that of the all season. Cornering was also much better and despite the same tire size, response was much quicker. This of course was the same in the dry weather. In the snow however, the all season tire provided better stopping and grip. The summer tire could not match.
people who think you shouldn't change the stock 17x7 215 primacy probably don't own an frs or brz. it's not the tires that allows the car to drift easy or makes it fun to drive. it's the way it's engineered through balanced chassis, steering feel, low centered mass and an awesome tranny feel that is even better than the 6speed sti. with wider wheels and better tires this car will drift just as easy, just drifts at a faster cornering speed which adds to the fun.
exactly, what makes it so much fun is how easily you can make it slide with the factory tires more grip means less fun
It doesn't matter what anybody looks like, it's the content of what they say and the reality of what they do.
This would be my DREAM job!!! I'm currently a valet and I parked a Scion Fr-S with the 6 speed manual and it was amazing, but too short of a drive. That must be the best job in the world!
Jessi is the greatest reviewer ever!!!
This is correct- this idea is what the concept of the deltawing is founded upon.
I changed out my stock 15" wheels/tires for 16" police steelies and federal summer tires and quickly noticed a HUGE difference in handling, no more did the car do those crazy 70's power-slides at ...25 mph, it stuck to the road like glue, after the tires my next mod would have been brakes and suspension, but I no linger have it.
I can confidently say that tires are my Second most important upgrade. First? The best damn windscreen wiper!
I'd love to do an episode on suspension mods. I'll see what I can do and will keep you posted! Thanks for the feedback and for watching!
Jessi
The first modification you should make to these twins is the Vortech Supercharger.
Which just might be the ONLY mod you'll really need depending on your driving habits
Jessi Lang kicks ass...keep up the good work!!
Biggest improvement to lap times is a tire upgrade. You can get usually around 2 seconds better lap times without an increase in power or change in suspension. No other mod can do that so easily and so cheaply.
Right, you don't have to increase diameter, just width and type (summer vs. A/S). However bigger wheels (diameter) won't upset speed setting if you go with a proper +1 sizing, the calculation remains very similar. 205/55-16 to 215/45-17 for example (common Subaru size upgrade). Plus if you go with lightweight wheels, that potentially decreases unsprung weight, if the new tires are equal to, or lighter than the OEM ones.
part of the difference is when the temperatures get cold. Not sure where you're located, but if the temps drop below 40*F then they start to lose traction because the rubber hardens up due to the cold. in theory, All Seasons will be the same below that temp.
Is "Modifying the Subaru BRZ" going to be a sub series part of WOT? I'd love to see you guys do more of these videos where you look for the best upgrades that don't break the bank that produce better performance such as maybe an aftermarket intake, exhaust, stuff like that. Great episode Jessi, I really enjoyed it!
It is nice to see the difference in tire size. I understand the prius tires were put on for a more fun driving experience but it sure does not help in lap times. My only question is that even though the wheels were changed from 17 to 18, the most important question is what the wdth difference was. It did say an inch difference in wheel width but never stated tire width size.
Also, all car enthusiasts know that you upgrade in certain order. Driver mod, then tires, then suspesnsion/brakes.
Very nice Jessi, loving that pinch of comedy in your episodes! Keep up!
agreed, sidenote: bigger rims will also necessitate thinner sidewalls for more road feel but at the expense of some NVH. i would get 18s with crappy tires so i can slide but i can feel the road more.
I've been buying tires online from tirerack for years now, never knew they had such a huge facility! Awesome stuff
Jessi sorry you got the flu! you still have that great personality tho so you will bounce back jus fine, thanks for commenting back too!
were those michelin pilot super sport? its hard to tell by tread (used to have PSS on my old car) if so then theres still the option of much stickier tires for track even before suspension/alignment parts = yay
Road and track tested the same idea with an FRS and did a much better job of it.
If you're going after improved lap times you do want a slightly wider tire and significantly stickier one; however, because the BRZ and FRS are a bit underpowered you want an equal or smaller overall diameter to give you shorter gearing (improves acceleration).
The number one modification a driver should make... is himself. Being a capable driver is worth 10x whatever a set of tires is. Nothing like being able to launch out better then the next guy at the strip, or maintain speed while hitting apexes, etc. Driver is #1 mod. Tires can be #2.
jessi is so charming!
her makeup was a bit unlucky in this episode but that doesnt mean i think shes less cute.
also very informative...only downside: premium tires cost a fortune