Susan's handwriting, saying that he would harm her, was not enough? The insurance that he bought on her name? Him been the last one to see her alive? There was so much, why did they treat her like she was dilusional?
I'm thinking maybe because Josh and Co. would have said she was not dead but unstable? No body to prove she was dead and no proof elsewhere that say so much blood of hers was lost in a vehicle, mine, etc. that she was definitely dead. Just a guess... no one ever said it was her DNA, just that there was blood. I'm guessing there couldn't have been much, he never seemed to leave much evidence anywhere, this guy planned everything.
They had more than enough evidence to keep him from those children, especially after the oldest boy drew a picture of his mother in the trunk of a car.
This police department has these kids blood on their hands.. There are plenty of cases won on circumstantial evidence! They are crazy for allowing this to happen!
The short answer. YES. Having lived just 5 miles from her at time of her disappearance and going through my own abuse from a narcissist I now look backwards and see how the entire culture is set up to discredit any woman who fears for her life. They treat men with kid gloves. The WVC police dept and lead detective are LAME. He even shrugs shoulders while admitting Josh was Sociopath and there was nothing he could do...God help us all.
I don't understand why Ellis didn't/couldn't get a search warrant for the house & Josh's vehicle(s) after he observed the damp carpet & sofa & the fan being used to dry the area in the living room. In addition, apparently some blood spatter was missed near the fireplace. Ellis kept worrying about not having enough prosecutorial evidence but FAILED to collect ANY EVIDENCE RIGHT AFTER Susan's disappearance giving Josh time to clean&dispose of clues. 🙄
I think no one expected him to ditch the police the day after she disappeared, rent a vehicle and go missing ... which is probably when they think he may have taken her body to brother Michael. They did find blood evidence there but I never heard whether it was her type/DNA or not.
I would have pressed harder. Giving Josh an inch gave him EVERYTHING. They gave him too much lead, too much control & in my humble opinion; Had they just ducked and power drilled all the way thru him- they would've had their answers. Edit: I do understand what the lead detective was saying about allowing things to "play out". But these guys were dealing with a different type of animal here & I believe that full force would have broken Josh into a confession. They miss judged his character type and screwed up bad. Ellis was too busy following orders. They had heart for Susan. But someone should have snapped into gear & said, wait a minute...this obviously isn't working. So f--- it. IT'S ON NOW. Right?
except the minute you place handcuffs on him and he is found innocent in a courtroom you cannot go after him again. Thats where the problem is, im sure Ellis and probably the entire police department knew he wasnt your average suspect but at the same time even today if he is found innocent in a courtroom than you are done. So it is much better to keep fighting until you positive evidence. By the way just days before Josh killed himself he was ordered to undergo a intensive lie detector test which would of determined enough to place the handcuffs on him.
I don't want to hear about what they didn't have but what they DID have was proof of indecent images of children on his computer and they STILL allowed him to be around children....
"What could we have done"? If this is what the police have to say, then there is no hope for all those people who are waiting for justice. No, this is not the movies, yes, this is real life. Is the police so incompetent? Resign. Let someone who is competent do the job. The level of helplessness he displays (with every resource in their hands) is pathetic. There were other cases with no dead body but the police did everything they could to solve it which is not the case here and that resulted in the death of two innocent little children. Such a shame that you have to sit on a television channel and confess to the public that you couldn't do anything and trying to justify your failure! What a tremendous failure!!!
It was snow, why not follow tracks, phone pings, boys said about mammy in the trunk, going with daddy and not comming back. Not one mammy but two little boys? Why
Can they find in the landfills the approximity where the dumpsters had their waste dumped? Its usually tagged They found that little girl a few yrs back by tracking where the garbage was dumped.
At one point they found some of Susan's books he dumped, but I think that was it. It's hard to find a little stuff dumped in a big landfill. And no DNA blood or anything was on them...or they probably would have been burned, I guess.
No they didn't, and not only many innocent people are dead, but the guilty ones are, too. The cops completely failed on this case, and all on the taxpayer's dime.
This is such a tradagy. At least let the kids go and if he wants to harm himslef do it by yourself. He is evil. It's obviously he did and his brother knew and who know who else knew. The system failed her. He should've been arrested.
he was ordered by the psychiatrist who did an evaluation on him to take the sexual Peter meter test as well as a polygraph. he knew it was over and killed the kids shortly after
They gave him the opportunity to get rid of evidence at the beginning by letting him reenter the house telling him to return for more questioning in the morning, where he was over 4hrs late providing him with time to destroying the last possible evidence in the home.
@madjou1 they could have arrested him just to get him off the street to get the boys away from him. even if he could have gotten out on bail the kids would be safe
@@pinkpugginz arrest him on what? Once a person is arrested, the county attorney/prosecutor has very little time to file the case, in Iowa where I live it's 45 days. Then, you have to be let out if they fail to move forward or if they do, with little evidence, theyll lose and double Jeopardy laws apply. He killed his boys over 2 years after his wife. In America, these constitutional rights afford all of us from being unfairly accused and stripped of our freedoms for good reason. Sometimes, even the bad guys get lucky under these rights. He would've more than likely been eventually arrested and tried. But what he pulled on the social worker was just a horrible event that he preplanned too. They can't just arrest people to get them off the street without any actual crime being committed they could go to trial with concretely. It's easy to say these things out of emotion but thank God our country is built on a strict set of rights that don't allow us to be thrown in to jail because we should be off the streets.
@@pinkpugginz out on bail for the boys to be safe? He'd already been stripped of his parental rights and days before knew this was true but allowed supervised visitation. It's sad that children's protective services didn't require the visits be held elsewhere. Out on bail he would've still been given supervised visits with his children until he was convicted. Not one thing in hindsight could've changed this except for visitations being held at a place that was designated for these things, not in the home of this killer and whack job.
@@lindiehammond7921 they could have not given him any visitation or been much more strict considering the police found images of the neighbor's children on his computer. They were saying they couldn't do anything because they didn't have a body, but they did have evidence that he had preyed on children. He shouldn't have been allowed around them at all
Excuses and excuses...I believe they worked their butts off...but we all know u DON'T need a body to get a guilty verdict... They had plenty of EVIDENCE. They failed!
Susan's handwriting, saying that he would harm her, was not enough? The insurance that he bought on her name? Him been the last one to see her alive? There was so much, why did they treat her like she was dilusional?
I'm thinking maybe because Josh and Co. would have said she was not dead but unstable? No body to prove she was dead and no proof elsewhere that say so much blood of hers was lost in a vehicle, mine, etc. that she was definitely dead. Just a guess... no one ever said it was her DNA, just that there was blood. I'm guessing there couldn't have been much, he never seemed to leave much evidence anywhere, this guy planned everything.
the blood in the house too
@@dpiroch the blood in the house on the tile was tested and it was susans
They had more than enough evidence to keep him from those children, especially after the oldest boy drew a picture of his mother in the trunk of a car.
This police department has these kids blood on their hands.. There are plenty of cases won on circumstantial evidence! They are crazy for allowing this to happen!
The short answer. YES. Having lived just 5 miles from her at time of her disappearance and going through my own abuse from a narcissist I now look backwards and see how the entire culture is set up to discredit any woman who fears for her life.
They treat men with kid gloves.
The WVC police dept and lead detective are LAME. He even shrugs shoulders while admitting Josh was Sociopath and there was nothing he could do...God help us all.
I don't understand why Ellis didn't/couldn't get a search warrant for the house & Josh's vehicle(s) after he observed the damp carpet & sofa & the fan being used to dry the area in the living room. In addition, apparently some blood spatter was missed near the fireplace. Ellis kept worrying about not having enough prosecutorial evidence but FAILED to collect ANY EVIDENCE RIGHT AFTER Susan's disappearance giving Josh time to clean&dispose of clues. 🙄
Yepp! 👍
I think no one expected him to ditch the police the day after she disappeared, rent a vehicle and go missing ... which is probably when they think he may have taken her body to brother Michael. They did find blood evidence there but I never heard whether it was her type/DNA or not.
He could have. He didn't ask for one.
I would have pressed harder. Giving Josh an inch gave him EVERYTHING. They gave him too much lead, too much control & in my humble opinion; Had they just ducked and power drilled all the way thru him- they would've had their answers.
Edit: I do understand what the lead detective was saying about allowing things to "play out". But these guys were dealing with a different type of animal here & I believe that full force would have broken Josh into a confession. They miss judged his character type and screwed up bad. Ellis was too busy following orders. They had heart for Susan. But someone should have snapped into gear & said, wait a minute...this obviously isn't working. So f--- it. IT'S ON NOW. Right?
except the minute you place handcuffs on him and he is found innocent in a courtroom you cannot go after him again. Thats where the problem is, im sure Ellis and probably the entire police department knew he wasnt your average suspect but at the same time even today if he is found innocent in a courtroom than you are done. So it is much better to keep fighting until you positive evidence.
By the way just days before Josh killed himself he was ordered to undergo a intensive lie detector test which would of determined enough to place the handcuffs on him.
How many arrests have been made and even won when they didn't have evidence or a body. An arrest should have been made !
This Cold series is amazing
I don't want to hear about what they didn't have but what they DID have was proof of indecent images of children on his computer and they STILL allowed him to be around children....
The cops should've got tough with josh in the interviews . Put pressure, to see if they could've broken him down
Water board!!!
"What could we have done"? If this is what the police have to say, then there is no hope for all those people who are waiting for justice. No, this is not the movies, yes, this is real life. Is the police so incompetent? Resign. Let someone who is competent do the job. The level of helplessness he displays (with every resource in their hands) is pathetic. There were other cases with no dead body but the police did everything they could to solve it which is not the case here and that resulted in the death of two innocent little children. Such a shame that you have to sit on a television channel and confess to the public that you couldn't do anything and trying to justify your failure! What a tremendous failure!!!
SAD!
It was snow, why not follow tracks, phone pings, boys said about mammy in the trunk, going with daddy and not comming back. Not one mammy but two little boys? Why
Can they find in the landfills the approximity where the dumpsters had their waste dumped? Its usually tagged They found that little girl a few yrs back by tracking where the garbage was dumped.
What little girl if you dont mine?
I want to say her name started with an. A C or a D but I can't remember. I'm going to have to research it now.
At one point they found some of Susan's books he dumped, but I think that was it. It's hard to find a little stuff dumped in a big landfill. And no DNA blood or anything was on them...or they probably would have been burned, I guess.
@@dpiroch yes. he was in the garage with a torch burning stuff. tons of chunks of burned melted metal and cleaning out the van all night.
Hate to say it looking In from the outside after the fact but , yeah you could have done something different , there was so much stuff and hints
The frustration so totally understood. Law enforcement did their best with what they had and explain it very well
No they didn't, and not only many innocent people are dead, but the guilty ones are, too. The cops completely failed on this case, and all on the taxpayer's dime.
Not really
I feel like they failed all of us.
What if it was one of our family members.
This is such a tradagy. At least let the kids go and if he wants to harm himslef do it by yourself. He is evil. It's obviously he did and his brother knew and who know who else knew. The system failed her. He should've been arrested.
What about his parents
I think a jury would have convicted him..🙄
why wasnt he ever given a lie test?
He scheduled one with police, then cancelled.
he was ordered by the psychiatrist who did an evaluation on him to take the sexual Peter meter test as well as a polygraph. he knew it was over and killed the kids shortly after
Very strange case
They gave him the opportunity to get rid of evidence at the beginning by letting him reenter the house telling him to return for more questioning in the morning, where he was over 4hrs late providing him with time to destroying the last possible evidence in the home.
Yes. And they failed those boys.
They should of arrested him.....proof!!!! What else do you need?
@madjou1 they could have arrested him just to get him off the street to get the boys away from him. even if he could have gotten out on bail the kids would be safe
@@pinkpugginz arrest him on what? Once a person is arrested, the county attorney/prosecutor has very little time to file the case, in Iowa where I live it's 45 days. Then, you have to be let out if they fail to move forward or if they do, with little evidence, theyll lose and double Jeopardy laws apply. He killed his boys over 2 years after his wife. In America, these constitutional rights afford all of us from being unfairly accused and stripped of our freedoms for good reason. Sometimes, even the bad guys get lucky under these rights. He would've more than likely been eventually arrested and tried. But what he pulled on the social worker was just a horrible event that he preplanned too. They can't just arrest people to get them off the street without any actual crime being committed they could go to trial with concretely. It's easy to say these things out of emotion but thank God our country is built on a strict set of rights that don't allow us to be thrown in to jail because we should be off the streets.
@@pinkpugginz out on bail for the boys to be safe? He'd already been stripped of his parental rights and days before knew this was true but allowed supervised visitation. It's sad that children's protective services didn't require the visits be held elsewhere. Out on bail he would've still been given supervised visits with his children until he was convicted. Not one thing in hindsight could've changed this except for visitations being held at a place that was designated for these things, not in the home of this killer and whack job.
@@lindiehammond7921 they could have not given him any visitation or been much more strict considering the police found images of the neighbor's children on his computer. They were saying they couldn't do anything because they didn't have a body, but they did have evidence that he had preyed on children. He shouldn't have been allowed around them at all
Excuses and excuses...I believe they worked their butts off...but we all know u DON'T need a body to get a guilty verdict... They had plenty of EVIDENCE. They failed!
I had forgotten!
The answer to the question is, "yes." Also, "but not all cops."
That lawyer(dark haired) did a great dance around the information and how it is used. It was just a bunch of BS.
The prosecutors are condescending.
Law enforcement and the court’s handling of this case was an absolute joke, it’s their fault Susan’s sons died.
Here “cooperate”. Means confess
Definitely
the grandparents got 98 million dollars off the taxpayers for this screw up
Yes
Worst true crime story. Sick.
Can
You guys give this guy some help he is know as the ghost Whisper on tik tok and youtube. He is doing Susan case now and there is new clued
This could be your only chance he pretty good
No physical evidence, all circumstantial, The Law is the Law, unfortunately!
I can’t stand this so call Detective.