I have played a lot of snooker/pool and the concept of angle of approach vs point of impact on ball to create different spins immediately resounded with me. Makes total sense.
This is the real "secret" of the spin that tennis instructor will never teach you. As an engineer I highly recommend this video lesson to every tennis player, no matter pro or amateur. Best regards.
I've been trying to get my groundstrokes right for 55 years. Course with equipment and technique evolution it's been a changing thing, but nevertheless your explanation of topspin production and swing path makes more sense than anything I've heard. I'm going to work on a consistent 45-degree above ball-direction swing path, "hammer-it" striking technique with both forehand and backhand, keeping my racket head moving towards the target as long as possible, and consistent swing speed. Maybe I've finally found El Dorado! Thank you Daniel!
Coach, we are taught to hit under the ball. But in reality we would be hitting below CG as you have explained. I feel hitting under CG when I encounter low balls and Hitting above CG when I encounter high balls.
ducockk Great question! This is a hang up for alot of players. They think that if they swing low to high they should hit the bottom of the ball (relative to the ground) with a "flat" face. However, if you hit the bottom of the ball with a low to high swing path, the ball will inevitably go too high and have no topspin to bring it back down in the court. The thing to remember is that the racquet's face is not always perpendicular to its swing path. You need to learn to angle the face as it travels in its path.
@@HammerItTennis To add to your last sentence, the angle that you make should be about 45 degrees ( to max rotational and directional energy) , correct?
@@ksagstertohi6156 yes! You want to have around a 45 degree angle of the face relative to the directional swing path. That will give good mix of the directional energy and spin on the ball! You got it! If you angle closed that gives forward spin (topspin) if you angle open that gives under spin (backspin /slice). The more toward perpendicular to the path more directional energy less spin, the more towards perpendicular to the path, the more spin less directional energy.
@@HammerItTennis Yes. Thank you. For anyone following along, the second part of Coach Dan’s last sentence should read “the less toward perpendicular...more spin...”. As such, we call a shot that is hit perfectly perpendicular to the flight path a flat shot (ie no spin).
Excellent video Dan . For a kick serve that kicks and turns where would be the best place to make contact ? I can get plenty of kick but I can't make it turn consistently. Cheers Dave C
So in general short ball contact point is above the center of mass and baseline shots contact point is below center of mass? (Assuming shoulder plane and racquet plane at 45)
John R Crowley Jr Not exactly. First of all you probably would not want a 45 degree attack angle on a short ball near or inside the baseline, with your racquet path. That steep of an angle would make it difficult to hit a penetrating shot through the court, and you would either most likely hit the ball long, or have to hit a tremendous amount of spin and then you would have no pace. Second, when you are talking about above and below the center of mass, are you meaning relative to what? The ground? A directional strike off the center of mass on one side of the ball causes rotation in the opposite direction on the other side of the ball. Yes you could hit topspin by hitting "below the center of mass" if your reference point is the equator of the ball relative to the ground, by swinging straight upward (90 degree attack angle). However, if your racquet path is a 45 degree attack angle and your face is perpendicular to that path then you actually will be hitting inline with the center of mass and your shot will sail long. If you have a face angle of 45 degrees (relative to racquet path) and swing the path around a 45 degree attack angle (little too steep still - typically around 30-40 is ideal) upward, your contact will actually be around the equator (relative to the ground) of the ball or even slightly above that point. I will be doing more videos on TRAJECTORIES, LAUNCH ANGLES, and FACE ANGLES later. Keep in mind that each concept is not everything that makes up hitting the ball where we want it to go. There are many concepts that as a whole make up our shots. Thanks for the question!
Great video! Question. As you point out, close to the net a path parallel to the ground and racquet face about 45 degree is good for hitting a penetrating shot with good spin. But is this also true (i.e. parallel path to ground and face closed 45 degrees) for a ball hit from the baseline if the ball bounces above net level and you can put enough power behind the ball?
@@adrianaldea5869 that would sorta be a waste, everyone knows how he does it for the most part but you have to be super skilled, most pros cant even do it. Also it comes up so rarely in a match situation, you may as well hit a lob
Hi Dan , thanks for getting back . I think some coaches call it the American twist , goes over the net high as with topspin and then turns about 45 degrees to the right on the bounce if your a right handed . I think they said Sampras used it a lot on the ad side to really take opposition out of court . I can get the ball to really kick but it always goes straight , every so often I've achieved the twist but not sure how . Cheers Dave
Dave, to hit a twist your racquet needs to be moving right to left through contact. More of a 3 o'clock to 9 or 8 o'clock contact path as opposed to a 7 o'clock towards a 1 to 2 o'clock contact path for a kick serve. The twist serve may throw off a few players, but I would focus on a strong driving topspin serve that kicks up hard to the backhand.
@@ksagstertohi6156 if you’re trying to hit a twist serve, for a right handed player, the racquet path is from the outside. The wrist turns the face so the racquet moves from about 3 to 9/8 o’clock on the back of the ball.
The angle of the face is not dependent on the ground but rather a combination of the racquet's path and your spine angle. Generally speaking for an average ground stroke FROM THE BASELINE, my face needs to be at a 45 degree angle RELATIVE TO THE SWING PATH. The path will be upward at contact, lifting the ball and giving it an initial upward launch. This is where we will get into the Dual Plane approach that I teach. There is the racquet plane and the shoulder plane. The shoulder plane is what creates the vertical launch angle (y axis) and the racquet plane controls the horizontal flight (x axis). The face angle controls the spin rate.
This is outrageous - how can u tell the world this big secret?! The coaches in amateur level r gonna get u. Lol, jk For the first time in a long while, topspin makes sense instead of some "superstitious habits". THX!!!
' Strike the object off its centre of mass'..... what an unbelievable (yet profoundly simple) truth! Dude your info is pure Gold - Thanks you so much for the revelation.
Makes sense to me being a science guy. The physics of tennis is an interesting thing. I remember in the past there being a turbo tennis site that recommended focusing on the 6 o'clock position on the ball. However when I do that I unfortunately tend to hit my balls longer although I do get a decent amount of topspin with them. Thinking about the relationship with the center of mass is a very good idea.
this video made such a sense that today i was able to return-winner and hit with all the power i wanted at the exact spot on the ball and still get the ball inside! thanks a lot!
If the racquet face is nearly vertical at contact, does it mean you necessarily contact the “back” of the ball, since the racquet is a flat plane and the ball is a sphere? It feels impossible to contact the top half of the ball, unless the racquet is severely closed. What I mean is, if the racquet is exactly vertical relative to the ground at contact, then the ball must necessarily be impacted at the exact equator behind the ball, regardless of swing path. Am I missing something?
Check out this video about the equator of the ball: Make your shots more consistent! Understanding how the ball equator effects TOPSPIN! ua-cam.com/video/FVO7VAwr_Ss/v-deo.html
If your face is a 45 degree angle to your swing path, it is impossible to hit below the equator of the ball. The true ball equator is parallel with your swing plane, not an imaginary line parallel with the ground. A 45 degree closed face can only make the ball spin forward (topspin). Be sure to check out some of the other videos on my channel that expand on this concept!
I think your presentation is great, and I'm wondering if you include the how the speed (and spin) of the oncoming ball, Racquet speed, as well is the influence of the strings, will effect your shot. If a ball is coming 70 mph or faster at my racket, I can swing more vertical (such as a buggy whip) without applying a lot of forward motion. I can use more "absorption" on impact, don't need to apply as much force (or hammering). And if the racquet speed is fast enough, my racquet can angle down more with a relatively flater swing path, because the strings will grip the ball to pull it up enough to go over the net. Some of this requires more precision especially when hitting heavy topspin low over the net (like an inside out forehand with sharp angle. I am making a point, but also asking if you discuss this on any of your other videos.
Ron, thanks for the comment! I always aprpecaiate viewers taking the time to have indepth and meaningful discussions. Like you state, of course the variables that you have mentioned will all influence the shot that I am able to produce. My videos are amied to provide broad thought inducing general principles that will help the majority of tennis players. However, when you look at most players on tour, they all have an upward swing path "around" 30-40 degrees for the majority of their shots. Yes, there will always be those shots in which you have to improvise or those players that have unique swings. When I am looking at how to help most students improve the most, its generally with getting their bad better, not necessarily their best better. Cutting out a majority of variables from your swing will get a player hitting the ball more consistent, with a more consistent aimable flight, and a more consistent shot depth. Seems you are proably a step ahead of most players since you are asking about these topics though. I haven't really gotten into this much detail on UA-cam, but on court students get way more indepth instruction that is more tailered to their specific situation. But understanding how the principles relate to each other is the key! Just as you've explained, once you understand how the general principles relate to each other it allows you to manipulate the situation to fit the particular shot you are trying to produce.
@@HammerItTennis I appreciate your response to me. I tend to get too complicated when it's not always called for. You approach has opened my eyes to some important principles and I hope to explore more along your line. Thanks.
@@tennisudin No problem! If you have any more questions or comments feel free to post! I've always said I am trying to teach students the "formulas" to figure out the problem as opposed to memorizing just problems and answers. You can memorize a motion but as you've stated, there are always going to be variables or different senarios that are hard to account for if you do not understand the formaula to produce the best shot for the situation. I know alot of good players in practice situations or on a ball machine, but in matches they fall apart. Those types of players usually have a "I don't know what's wrong with my game today" type attitude, but it's not whats wrong with them, but rather they just do not throughly understand how to produce the shot they are wanting if the variables have chagned from how they practice.
Thank you for this very clear presentation. I have been thinking about spin a lot lately and have concluded the key is hitting the ball off the center of mass. I have concluded this is the primary cause of spin. I would cite as evidence that a baseball bat can create a lot of spin on a baseball and, in the case of baseball, both surfaces are round and there are no strings involved, super spin type or otherwise. However, I have just looked at some sites on physics and tennis that suggest that some spin is also generated by the fact that when the ball hits the racquet, the surface of the ball pushes the strings laterally and they then spring back against the surface of the ball and rotate it back the other way. Strings that grab the surface of the ball better (maybe due to friction?) and strings that snap back better will spin the ball more. So, the factors creating spin are these two, maybe more that I have yet to discover. I would think then that for fast paced balls at the baseline, a player would want to emphasize techniques that employ the off-center of mass factor. For short, slow balls, where more spin and less forward direction is needed, a player would want to emphasize the lateral snapping back of the strings factor. Would you agree? Hope this is useful to other players reading.
Hi David, Came across this video on my youtube, wonderful explanation on mechanics behind top spin, I am wondering what is your mind thinking when you are ready to hit a forehand meaning, do you aim for the point on the ball as mentioned in video or do you just bring the leverage / momentum. Can you elaborate how effectively can it be implemented with eastern forehand grip ( similar to federer, I have more like Fed style). Thanks a lot in advance
I think that hitting above the equator happens bc of the "closed to the path" racket face ... I still intend to hit the equator ... it's just that the top main strings contact the ball first above the equator due to the angled racket face
I recommend Semi-Western with the Hammer It method forehand. That allows you to hit with leverage and the grip has naturally closed the face to the proper angle. Different grips work with different styles of swinging the racquet. Semi-western is a closed face grip. So if you are using semi-western you must have an upward angle of attack at the ball.
Thank you soo much! I really appreciate the kind words. I've really tried to understand the game indepth in order to be able to teach the concepts behind the game and not just teach people to mimic what they can see.
Quick question When you say hitting on different spot on ball , it appears to me that you are hitting top of equator of ball no matter if swing path is steep or more flat , am I correct ? Thanks
I am actually in production on a video on this exact topic right now! Basically, the "equator" of the ball is completely relative to the swing path or angle of attack on the ball. So, the equator changes depending on the angle of the path, AND that also establishes the initial launch angle. If you make contact on the ball above the "equator" the ball MUST go below this equator AND the initial launch angle. So the ball can never go higher than that line. So if your path is very flat and only allowing a few degrees to clear the net, if you hit above the equator, it will prob go in the net. This is why we see about a 40 degree launch angle from high level players. This gives enough upward angle to work the ball down with high levels of spin and still clear the net.
Hammer It Tennis Nice But again when we are far from net we still hit above equator but since the swing path is steep the ball doesn’t go down as giving initial upward path correct ? So in essence we always hit above equator on ground strokes topspin and flat and control launch with swing path Right?
For a topspin shot, you would have to hit "above the equator" of the ball. But again that equator line could be what is "below" the level line with the court, depending on how high the swing path/launch angle is. Your "equator" could be (on a clock with 6 pointing down at the ground,12 being the sky, 9 being toward the opponent and 3 being contact side) at 4 or 5 o'clock. Sometimes when players think above the equator they tend to use the 3 o'clock mark (level line with the court) as the equator and therefore they drive the ball steeply into the net.
Hammer It Tennis Oh may be I got it wrong then 😐since i saw you making x mark at 2 clock due to racquet face 45 degree and combining with steep angle path for topspin racquet will make contact at 1 or 2 But as per your comment it sounds like even with 45 degree angle face we hit steep at 5 clock or 4 ?? Thanks
That's where I am saying it depends. It could be 1 or 2 o'clock in my example or it could be as low as 4 or 5 depending. I am trying to finish production on this topic and hopefully that will make this alot easier to explain!
If I play against a fast heavy spinner, to counter that heavy spin, with the same swing path of low to high, do I need a faster swing speed as compared to playing against players lower top spins?
I was a little confused regarding the 45 degree angle of the face to the swing path. It's seems that the angle is actually 135 degrees in relation to the beginning of the swing path.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you should measure the angle between follow-through line and the face of the racquet i.e. the angles gets larger the more you open the face of the racquet.
Fantastic stuff! If I'm following what you are saying would you agree that If the incoming ball is coming in at a downward path (high to low) at a 45 degree angle and the racket is moving in an upward path at a 45 degree angle then you will hit the center of mass of the ball and won’t generate any topspin? Conversely, if you hit the ball on the rise so it is coming in at a 45 degree upward path and your racket is also moving at a 45 degree upward path then you will hit maximum topspin and the ball will still go over the net because of the way the ball will rebound off the racket?
David, the thing to keep in mind is that the racquet path and the racquet face can be independent of each other. In your first scenario, if the ball is dropping at a 45 degree angle and the racquet is moving up at a 45 degree path AND the racquet face is neutral to the racquet path, then yes, there would be little spin. However, using that same neutral face would lead to the same effect in your second scenario too, because the face is NEUTRAL to the racquet path. If the racquet's path and the racquet's face are to parallel to each other and the ball's incoming path is also parallel with those paths of the racquet, then you would have maximum spin. However, you will hit so little of the ball that it is hard now to generate pace. Check out my other video also showing these concepts ua-cam.com/video/le5sIlZ-CyE/v-deo.html Thanks for the question and views!
jean huz Good question. The speed of the incoming ball and the spin rate of the ball are both variables into the equation. If your opponent hits a shot with topspin or with backspin, this affects how the ball reacts on our racquet. When an opponent hits with heavy topspin this tends to bite into our face more than a shot with backspin. When you hit topspin back to a topspin shot you are reversing the spin and that is easier than hitting topspin back to a backspin shot. When your opponent hits backspin, after the ball bounces on the court, the backspin slows or is changed to forward spin by hitting the ground, this will not bite into our racquet face as much. If you do not change your launch angle you are more inclined to drop your topspin shot, hit on your opponents backspin shot, in the net. You are correct, the pace of the ball you are hitting will effect the spin rate and launch angle, but depending on what kind of shot you want to hit. Also, your location on the court is another variable. So many players swing at the ball the same no matter where they are hitting from. You must adjust your shot for all these variables, which is why I teach concepts and not just blank muscle memory feel. If you do not understand the concepts and how to adjust for each shot from different opponents hit to different targets from different locations on the court, but rather just have been taught a feel from one spot hitting to a spot, you will suffer in matches.
TooleyPeter This is a point that confuses a lot of people. As stated in the video, if your face is closed at a 45 degree angle (relative to your racquet path) that will give your shot a good mix of pace and rotation. You are probably thinking in terms of relative to the ground. My racquet face does not have to be perpendicular to the racquet path all the time. That would be a neutral face. Most pros teach open, closed and neutral faces relative to the ground, but that is incorrect and irreverent. The face is either open, closed or neutral - relative to the racquet's path. I will be uploading more videos on this topic, so stay tuned! Thanks for the question!
I fell asleep at 13:11. I'm not a fan of tennis and science stuff, especially when used to teach tennis. For me it's exactly what players don't need to improve their game. A lot of things usefull for scientists but not for players. When you hit a ball, it's impossible to focus on the angle of your racket or stuff like that, you don't have the time and it's useless. I've been a tennis teacher for long and I've seen a lot of coaches teaching players of any level. We'd never talk about those things, even if they are true, because it confuses people and it's not a natural way to learn tennis.
Team-Tennis.fr Exactly! ... but this is the path American coaches are going, and they can't even get the science right, let alone teach it! Just look at the top 50 pro rankings, where are the Americans? MIA - Missing In Action.
Justin Chen Hey Justin, when was the last time at male player from the US won a Slam. How many male Americans are in the top 10? A hand full in the top 50, richest nation on Earth... pathetic! Check those facts bro.
Justin Chen Hey Justin, please share with us your tennis credentials. It appears you don't think too much/highly of Team-Tennis.fr. so you must have a pretty serious track record and we look forward to learning/hearing about it.
Justin Chen well, since you refer to him as a "racket reviewer", it's clear you have no tennis credentials and aren't worthy of carrying his rackets let alone challenging his views. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Took my tennis to a new level and can't thank you enough.
I have played a lot of snooker/pool and the concept of angle of approach vs point of impact on ball to create different spins immediately resounded with me. Makes total sense.
This is the real "secret" of the spin that tennis instructor will never teach you.
As an engineer I highly recommend this video lesson to every tennis player, no matter pro or amateur. Best regards.
I've been trying to get my groundstrokes right for 55 years. Course with equipment and technique evolution it's been a changing thing, but nevertheless your explanation of topspin production and swing path makes more sense than anything I've heard. I'm going to work on a consistent 45-degree above ball-direction swing path, "hammer-it" striking technique with both forehand and backhand, keeping my racket head moving towards the target as long as possible, and consistent swing speed. Maybe I've finally found El Dorado!
Thank you Daniel!
how u doing now? still playing?
Made a lot of sense and will be very useful in my teaching.
Love it
Coach, we are taught to hit under the ball. But in reality we would be hitting below CG as you have explained. I feel hitting under CG when I encounter low balls and Hitting above CG when I encounter high balls.
Thank you, your concepts are great!
vj rp thanks! I appreciate that!
This is a great video. What I don't understand is how can I make contact above the middle of ball but still swing low to high?
ducockk Great question! This is a hang up for alot of players. They think that if they swing low to high they should hit the bottom of the ball (relative to the ground) with a "flat" face. However, if you hit the bottom of the ball with a low to high swing path, the ball will inevitably go too high and have no topspin to bring it back down in the court. The thing to remember is that the racquet's face is not always perpendicular to its swing path. You need to learn to angle the face as it travels in its path.
@@HammerItTennis To add to your last sentence, the angle that you make should be about 45 degrees ( to max rotational and directional energy) , correct?
@@ksagstertohi6156 yes! You want to have around a 45 degree angle of the face relative to the directional swing path. That will give good mix of the directional energy and spin on the ball! You got it! If you angle closed that gives forward spin (topspin) if you angle open that gives under spin (backspin /slice). The more toward perpendicular to the path more directional energy less spin, the more towards perpendicular to the path, the more spin less directional energy.
@@HammerItTennis Yes. Thank you. For anyone following along, the second part of Coach Dan’s last sentence should read “the less toward perpendicular...more spin...”. As such, we call a shot that is hit perfectly perpendicular to the flight path a flat shot (ie no spin).
Thank xou so much ! Great - thats all 😊🎾👍
Thank you!
Thank you
Excellent video Dan . For a kick serve that kicks and turns where would be the best place to make contact ? I can get plenty of kick but I can't make it turn consistently. Cheers Dave C
Dave, I want to make sure I understand what you mean by "turn". Thanks
So in general short ball contact point is above the center of mass and baseline shots contact point is below center of mass? (Assuming shoulder plane and racquet plane at 45)
John R Crowley Jr Not exactly. First of all you probably would not want a 45 degree attack angle on a short ball near or inside the baseline, with your racquet path. That steep of an angle would make it difficult to hit a penetrating shot through the court, and you would either most likely hit the ball long, or have to hit a tremendous amount of spin and then you would have no pace. Second, when you are talking about above and below the center of mass, are you meaning relative to what? The ground? A directional strike off the center of mass on one side of the ball causes rotation in the opposite direction on the other side of the ball. Yes you could hit topspin by hitting "below the center of mass" if your reference point is the equator of the ball relative to the ground, by swinging straight upward (90 degree attack angle). However, if your racquet path is a 45 degree attack angle and your face is perpendicular to that path then you actually will be hitting inline with the center of mass and your shot will sail long. If you have a face angle of 45 degrees (relative to racquet path) and swing the path around a 45 degree attack angle (little too steep still - typically around 30-40 is ideal) upward, your contact will actually be around the equator (relative to the ground) of the ball or even slightly above that point. I will be doing more videos on TRAJECTORIES, LAUNCH ANGLES, and FACE ANGLES later. Keep in mind that each concept is not everything that makes up hitting the ball where we want it to go. There are many concepts that as a whole make up our shots. Thanks for the question!
Great video! Question. As you point out, close to the net a path parallel to the ground and racquet face about 45 degree is good for hitting a penetrating shot with good spin. But is this also true (i.e. parallel path to ground and face closed 45 degrees) for a ball hit from the baseline if the ball bounces above net level and you can put enough power behind the ball?
yeah, this!
nice explanation. Can you make same video please with banana shot Please? Thank you
When you say banana shot explanation? What exactly are you meaning? Are you talking like the shot I explain in my “how to hit high balls” video?
@@HammerItTennis hi, the running banana tennis shot used by Nadal down the line on his forehead ☺️
@@adrianaldea5869 that would sorta be a waste, everyone knows how he does it for the most part but you have to be super skilled, most pros cant even do it. Also it comes up so rarely in a match situation, you may as well hit a lob
Hi Dan , thanks for getting back . I think some coaches call it the American twist , goes over the net high as with topspin and then turns about 45 degrees to the right on the bounce if your a right handed . I think they said Sampras used it a lot on the ad side to really take opposition out of court . I can get the ball to really kick but it always goes straight , every so often I've achieved the twist but not sure how . Cheers Dave
Dave, to hit a twist your racquet needs to be moving right to left through contact. More of a 3 o'clock to 9 or 8 o'clock contact path as opposed to a 7 o'clock towards a 1 to 2 o'clock contact path for a kick serve. The twist serve may throw off a few players, but I would focus on a strong driving topspin serve that kicks up hard to the backhand.
@@HammerItTennis 3 to 9?
@@ksagstertohi6156 if you’re trying to hit a twist serve, for a right handed player, the racquet path is from the outside. The wrist turns the face so the racquet moves from about 3 to 9/8 o’clock on the back of the ball.
wow so clay ballard is wrong about it being a 45 degree angle to the ground. I been doing that alot, and no wonder its dumping into the net alot.
The angle of the face is not dependent on the ground but rather a combination of the racquet's path and your spine angle. Generally speaking for an average ground stroke FROM THE BASELINE, my face needs to be at a 45 degree angle RELATIVE TO THE SWING PATH. The path will be upward at contact, lifting the ball and giving it an initial upward launch. This is where we will get into the Dual Plane approach that I teach. There is the racquet plane and the shoulder plane. The shoulder plane is what creates the vertical launch angle (y axis) and the racquet plane controls the horizontal flight (x axis). The face angle controls the spin rate.
Ah alright, Im beginning to see where I was misinterpreting things. Thanks again.
This is outrageous - how can u tell the world this big secret?! The coaches in amateur level r gonna get u.
Lol, jk For the first time in a long while, topspin makes sense instead of some "superstitious habits". THX!!!
Wow, thank you so much for helping me understand what I was doing wrong.
' Strike the object off its centre of mass'..... what an unbelievable (yet profoundly simple) truth! Dude your info is pure Gold - Thanks you so much for the revelation.
ray edmondson glad that you appreciate the videos! Thanks for the views!
Makes sense to me being a science guy. The physics of tennis is an interesting thing. I remember in the past there being a turbo tennis site that recommended focusing on the 6 o'clock position on the ball. However when I do that I unfortunately tend to hit my balls longer although I do get a decent amount of topspin with them. Thinking about the relationship with the center of mass is a very good idea.
I also faced same when tried hitting 6 o'clock.
thank you so much
this really changed my aspect towards topspin and my game got even more better
honestly I can't find a better instructor than u
Thank you for the kind words!
this video made such a sense that today i was able to return-winner and hit with all the power i wanted at the exact spot on the ball and still get the ball inside! thanks a lot!
If the racquet face is nearly vertical at contact, does it mean you necessarily contact the “back” of the ball, since the racquet is a flat plane and the ball is a sphere? It feels impossible to contact the top half of the ball, unless the racquet is severely closed. What I mean is, if the racquet is exactly vertical relative to the ground at contact, then the ball must necessarily be impacted at the exact equator behind the ball, regardless of swing path. Am I missing something?
Check out this video about the equator of the ball: Make your shots more consistent! Understanding how the ball equator effects TOPSPIN!
ua-cam.com/video/FVO7VAwr_Ss/v-deo.html
If you face is at 45 degree angle to the ball and you make contact below the equator of the ball - what will happen? Vs hitting it above the equator?
If your face is a 45 degree angle to your swing path, it is impossible to hit below the equator of the ball. The true ball equator is parallel with your swing plane, not an imaginary line parallel with the ground. A 45 degree closed face can only make the ball spin forward (topspin). Be sure to check out some of the other videos on my channel that expand on this concept!
I think your presentation is great, and I'm wondering if you include the how the speed (and spin) of the oncoming ball, Racquet speed, as well is the influence of the strings, will effect your shot. If a ball is coming 70 mph or faster at my racket, I can swing more vertical (such as a buggy whip) without applying a lot of forward motion. I can use more "absorption" on impact, don't need to apply as much force (or hammering). And if the racquet speed is fast enough, my racquet can angle down more with a relatively flater swing path, because the strings will grip the ball to pull it up enough to go over the net. Some of this requires more precision especially when hitting heavy topspin low over the net (like an inside out forehand with sharp angle. I am making a point, but also asking if you discuss this on any of your other videos.
Ron, thanks for the comment! I always aprpecaiate viewers taking the time to have indepth and meaningful discussions. Like you state, of course the variables that you have mentioned will all influence the shot that I am able to produce. My videos are amied to provide broad thought inducing general principles that will help the majority of tennis players. However, when you look at most players on tour, they all have an upward swing path "around" 30-40 degrees for the majority of their shots. Yes, there will always be those shots in which you have to improvise or those players that have unique swings. When I am looking at how to help most students improve the most, its generally with getting their bad better, not necessarily their best better. Cutting out a majority of variables from your swing will get a player hitting the ball more consistent, with a more consistent aimable flight, and a more consistent shot depth. Seems you are proably a step ahead of most players since you are asking about these topics though. I haven't really gotten into this much detail on UA-cam, but on court students get way more indepth instruction that is more tailered to their specific situation. But understanding how the principles relate to each other is the key! Just as you've explained, once you understand how the general principles relate to each other it allows you to manipulate the situation to fit the particular shot you are trying to produce.
@@HammerItTennis I appreciate your response to me. I tend to get too complicated when it's not always called for. You approach has opened my eyes to some important principles and I hope to explore more along your line. Thanks.
@@tennisudin No problem! If you have any more questions or comments feel free to post! I've always said I am trying to teach students the "formulas" to figure out the problem as opposed to memorizing just problems and answers. You can memorize a motion but as you've stated, there are always going to be variables or different senarios that are hard to account for if you do not understand the formaula to produce the best shot for the situation. I know alot of good players in practice situations or on a ball machine, but in matches they fall apart. Those types of players usually have a "I don't know what's wrong with my game today" type attitude, but it's not whats wrong with them, but rather they just do not throughly understand how to produce the shot they are wanting if the variables have chagned from how they practice.
P.s Teaching us dynamic ball awareness is absolutely fundamental to improve - thanks again to the power of 50 :)
Great video. Sounds a lot like my problem...
Well explained! This will help my swings a lot.
Awesome! Glad you like the content!
Great tutorial Danny Boy, "Spin for Dummies", hahahaha...perfect. Greetings from Switzerland, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood....salud
Thank you for this very clear presentation. I have been thinking about spin a lot lately and have concluded the key is hitting the ball off the center of mass. I have concluded this is the primary cause of spin. I would cite as evidence that a baseball bat can create a lot of spin on a baseball and, in the case of baseball, both surfaces are round and there are no strings involved, super spin type or otherwise. However, I have just looked at some sites on physics and tennis that suggest that some spin is also generated by the fact that when the ball hits the racquet, the surface of the ball pushes the strings laterally and they then spring back against the surface of the ball and rotate it back the other way. Strings that grab the surface of the ball better (maybe due to friction?) and strings that snap back better will spin the ball more. So, the factors creating spin are these two, maybe more that I have yet to discover. I would think then that for fast paced balls at the baseline, a player would want to emphasize techniques that employ the off-center of mass factor. For short, slow balls, where more spin and less forward direction is needed, a player would want to emphasize the lateral snapping back of the strings factor. Would you agree? Hope this is useful to other players reading.
Hi David, Came across this video on my youtube, wonderful explanation on mechanics behind top spin, I am wondering what is your mind thinking when you are ready to hit a forehand meaning, do you aim for the point on the ball as mentioned in video or do you just bring the leverage / momentum. Can you elaborate how effectively can it be implemented with eastern forehand grip ( similar to federer, I have more like Fed style). Thanks a lot in advance
I think that hitting above the equator happens bc of the "closed to the path" racket face ... I still intend to hit the equator ... it's just that the top main strings contact the ball first above the equator due to the angled racket face
Dan, always enjoy your logical discussion on striking the ball. One question, Do you recommend eastern forehand or semi Western? Thanks a lot, Doug
I recommend Semi-Western with the Hammer It method forehand. That allows you to hit with leverage and the grip has naturally closed the face to the proper angle. Different grips work with different styles of swinging the racquet. Semi-western is a closed face grip. So if you are using semi-western you must have an upward angle of attack at the ball.
Yes bro!!! Thank you. Very helpful
forward to 6:34 for the topspin lesson
Where is is this guy?
daniel...you're the best tennis instructor without any doubt
Thank you soo much! I really appreciate the kind words. I've really tried to understand the game indepth in order to be able to teach the concepts behind the game and not just teach people to mimic what they can see.
Quick question
When you say hitting on different spot on ball , it appears to me that you are hitting top of equator of ball no matter if swing path is steep or more flat , am I correct ?
Thanks
I am actually in production on a video on this exact topic right now! Basically, the "equator" of the ball is completely relative to the swing path or angle of attack on the ball. So, the equator changes depending on the angle of the path, AND that also establishes the initial launch angle. If you make contact on the ball above the "equator" the ball MUST go below this equator AND the initial launch angle. So the ball can never go higher than that line. So if your path is very flat and only allowing a few degrees to clear the net, if you hit above the equator, it will prob go in the net. This is why we see about a 40 degree launch angle from high level players. This gives enough upward angle to work the ball down with high levels of spin and still clear the net.
Hammer It Tennis
Nice
But again when we are far from net we still hit above equator but since the swing path is steep the ball doesn’t go down as giving initial upward path correct ?
So in essence we always hit above equator on ground strokes topspin and flat and control launch with swing path
Right?
For a topspin shot, you would have to hit "above the equator" of the ball. But again that equator line could be what is "below" the level line with the court, depending on how high the swing path/launch angle is. Your "equator" could be (on a clock with 6 pointing down at the ground,12 being the sky, 9 being toward the opponent and 3 being contact side) at 4 or 5 o'clock. Sometimes when players think above the equator they tend to use the 3 o'clock mark (level line with the court) as the equator and therefore they drive the ball steeply into the net.
Hammer It Tennis
Oh may be I got it wrong then 😐since i saw you making x mark at 2 clock due to racquet face 45 degree and combining with steep angle path for topspin racquet will make contact at 1 or 2
But as per your comment it sounds like even with 45 degree angle face we hit steep at 5 clock or 4 ??
Thanks
That's where I am saying it depends. It could be 1 or 2 o'clock in my example or it could be as low as 4 or 5 depending. I am trying to finish production on this topic and hopefully that will make this alot easier to explain!
Great explanation.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Hammer it Tennis very much indeed for tutorial.
Is it like as if you were playing snooker or billiard? Then a slice would be negative spin?
If I play against a fast heavy spinner, to counter that heavy spin, with the same swing path of low to high, do I need a faster swing speed as compared to playing against players lower top spins?
When tennis becomes Physics
Michael Vonhaven Tennis is just a simple game of physics, geometry, and probability. Lol 😂
Many thanks for getting back Dan . Your videos are great 👍😀
I was a little confused regarding the 45 degree angle of the face to the swing path. It's seems that the angle is actually 135 degrees in relation to the beginning of the swing path.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you should measure the angle between follow-through line and the face of the racquet i.e. the angles gets larger the more you open the face of the racquet.
Fantastic stuff! If I'm following what you are saying would you agree that If the incoming ball is coming in at a downward path (high to low) at a 45 degree angle and the racket is moving in an upward path at a 45 degree angle then you will hit the center of mass of the ball and won’t generate any topspin? Conversely, if you hit the ball on the rise so it is coming in at a 45 degree upward path and your racket is also moving at a 45 degree upward path then you will hit maximum topspin and the ball will still go over the net because of the way the ball will rebound off the racket?
David, the thing to keep in mind is that the racquet path and the racquet face can be independent of each other. In your first scenario, if the ball is dropping at a 45 degree angle and the racquet is moving up at a 45 degree path AND the racquet face is neutral to the racquet path, then yes, there would be little spin. However, using that same neutral face would lead to the same effect in your second scenario too, because the face is NEUTRAL to the racquet path. If the racquet's path and the racquet's face are to parallel to each other and the ball's incoming path is also parallel with those paths of the racquet, then you would have maximum spin. However, you will hit so little of the ball that it is hard now to generate pace. Check out my other video also showing these concepts
ua-cam.com/video/le5sIlZ-CyE/v-deo.html
Thanks for the question and views!
Thank you and keep up the good work!
Hello interesting. Question the speed of the incoming ball is also interfering with the spin effect to décrease the angle of attack No ?
jean huz Good question. The speed of the incoming ball and the spin rate of the ball are both variables into the equation. If your opponent hits a shot with topspin or with backspin, this affects how the ball reacts on our racquet. When an opponent hits with heavy topspin this tends to bite into our face more than a shot with backspin. When you hit topspin back to a topspin shot you are reversing the spin and that is easier than hitting topspin back to a backspin shot. When your opponent hits backspin, after the ball bounces on the court, the backspin slows or is changed to forward spin by hitting the ground, this will not bite into our racquet face as much. If you do not change your launch angle you are more inclined to drop your topspin shot, hit on your opponents backspin shot, in the net. You are correct, the pace of the ball you are hitting will effect the spin rate and launch angle, but depending on what kind of shot you want to hit. Also, your location on the court is another variable. So many players swing at the ball the same no matter where they are hitting from. You must adjust your shot for all these variables, which is why I teach concepts and not just blank muscle memory feel. If you do not understand the concepts and how to adjust for each shot from different opponents hit to different targets from different locations on the court, but rather just have been taught a feel from one spot hitting to a spot, you will suffer in matches.
HammerItTennis Thanks a lot
I'm very confused. Are you actually suggesting people hit the ball with the racket face tilted downward at a 45 degree angle?
TooleyPeter This is a point that confuses a lot of people. As stated in the video, if your face is closed at a 45 degree angle (relative to your racquet path) that will give your shot a good mix of pace and rotation. You are probably thinking in terms of relative to the ground. My racquet face does not have to be perpendicular to the racquet path all the time. That would be a neutral face. Most pros teach open, closed and neutral faces relative to the ground, but that is incorrect and irreverent. The face is either open, closed or neutral - relative to the racquet's path. I will be uploading more videos on this topic, so stay tuned! Thanks for the question!
I fell asleep at 13:11. I'm not a fan of tennis and science stuff, especially when used to teach tennis. For me it's exactly what players don't need to improve their game. A lot of things usefull for scientists but not for players. When you hit a ball, it's impossible to focus on the angle of your racket or stuff like that, you don't have the time and it's useless. I've been a tennis teacher for long and I've seen a lot of coaches teaching players of any level. We'd never talk about those things, even if they are true, because it confuses people and it's not a natural way to learn tennis.
Team-Tennis.fr Exactly! ... but this is the path American coaches are going, and they can't even get the science right, let alone teach it!
Just look at the top 50 pro rankings, where are the Americans? MIA - Missing In Action.
Justin Chen Hey Justin, when was the last time at male player from the US won a Slam. How many male Americans are in the top 10? A hand full in the top 50, richest nation on Earth... pathetic! Check those facts bro.
Justin Chen Justin Chen looks like there's only 5 in the top 50 now LOL .... as for this video, Team-Tennis.fr is absolutely correct!
Justin Chen Hey Justin, please share with us your tennis credentials. It appears you don't think too much/highly of Team-Tennis.fr. so you must have a pretty serious track record and we look forward to learning/hearing about it.
Justin Chen well, since you refer to him as a "racket reviewer", it's clear you have no tennis credentials and aren't worthy of carrying his rackets let alone challenging his views. You should be ashamed of yourself.