Fix Muddy Metal Guitars with the Andy Sneap C4 Setting
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2018
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This is a classic metal mixing trick for guitars!
Learn how to control the low-end of heavy guitars during palm mutes and chugging... WITHOUT making the rest of your tone thin.
This is accomplished using a multiband compressor that only effects the low mids... leaving the rest of your guitar tone intact.
The Waves C4/C6 is a no brainer plugin! Check it out here: waves.alzt.net/7vZM3
For those who like free plugins, TDR Nova is an amazing plugin that will accomplish similar results to the plugin above. I use it the same way as demonstrated in the video above, and it cleans up the mud nicely. Just an alternative option.
yep, really no need to buy anything else.
Caleb Hohneke Thanks for the tip
tdr nova and reaXcomp
Same
Such a good plugin one of my favourites. Easy to use and very versatile
My mixes have kind of always sounded meh but the tips you provide have really helped change my perspective on mixing as a whole. I appreciate you, homie!
I can't wait to use this on my next mix. So simple, yet so helpful. Thank you!
Yes!! This has been my go to for years. Great vid
Hey Jordan, you should do a video on getting rid of overall mudiness in a mix. Love the video keep em coming. You have help me mix 1000 times better already. Capture techniques would be a cool series as well
Thanks for all the great videos.
And thanks for your great work with Intervals. In Time sounds amazing.
like you videos getting some good tips as I'm new to home recording etc but watching your videos and one or two others has helped me out alot thanks
The Waves C4 is the best plugin I've bought in the past year - not even exaggerating. It's saved my life on multiple occasions haha
What are you using it for except the guitars? I recently bought one just because it was discounted heavily, (29$ only).
Petar Pavasović maybe to compress harsh vocal sybilant areas
Thanks for the great tip! I used it when I was working on the guitar sound for my latest video. So I was able to get much cleaner sound which still sounds heavy and not thin at all.
oh my i am sooooooooo glad i have found this channel! where where you for the last... .. yeasr!
Using compressors on guitar tone sounds better than messing up the tone guitarists set, this is really helpful, thanks man
I really like it, awesome tip. Thanks Jordan.
Great video. Clearly explained and a powerful tool. Could be used all around the session on snare or toms and clean up the mix.
Great, thank you, I will try this in my next mix👍🏼
Thanks for this, really helps control those chugs.
And also the song your working on sounds great keep up the good work
For static issues you use static EQ... for dynamic issues you use dynamic EQ or multiband compression (both are pretty similar in function). If you're super cheap, you can simply automate any EQ plug in to accomplish this, but this requires some time and precision. Best to get Pro Q3, C4 or some other purpose made plug in.
Thank you so much for these videos!
Hi Thank you for that clear and efficient tip.
Great Video and really good tip
Hey man I love this plugin from waves also it’s awesome so thank you so much for this tip on how to use this plugin
Cool trick!! Thanks!!
Great trick! I like to use C4 on kick bus to get different sound of bass drum.
Great, helpful information.
Thank You Jordan
Great C4 trick, but i’m really loving the tone on those gtrs.
came too slowly to this channel... very cool. subscribed - UK
Thanks Jordan for this trick, I wonder if we can use the same approach for making the palm mutes more visible in the mix?
Didn't expect to hear The Afterimage right away lmaooo
Good video, thank you
Man, I really appreciate the quick run through at 5:26
jw bus glue guitars has a chug slayer button that is basically this. i love it
Awesome !
Thankyou!
Your videos are always very informative but I would like to find out if there is a way to make a bad sounding guitar separated from a 30 year old recording sound better.
Thank you 🙏
I assume there's no makeup gain being used after the compression?
This kind of guitar track is made for multiband compression.
Multiband compression was made for guitar tracks like this.. ;)
This and EQing out the garbage around 4K are the two best things to ever happen to metal guitars. If I was told I could only make two adjustments using plug ins on a guitar track, those two things would win basically every single time (assuming heavy distorted guitar tracks)
How about High Pass, lmao?
Beautiful, thank you Jordan. This plugin has become invaluable to me for fat ass guitars.
Question: I've got a tune with a string ensemble (1st & 2nd vln, vla, cello & bass) with oboe, flute and vox in the bridge. The bass is primarily marcato while the rest of the strings are primarily sipato, the winds are lagato. Mixing the strings in particular is driving me nuts. Got any suggestions?
Hey Jordan. Can you help me with something. This technique is awesome. I want to know if there is any difference between using this method on each channel or on a distorted guitar bus? Thanks, great stuff btw
Same results, less processing
Awesome tnx
So I bought this, but when istalling it I found out that I need Windows 10 to use it, and apparently I'm still running Windows 8.1
Can I still install this? Or do I really need to change to Windows 10, or just use more money for a better computer? I bought the Asus gaming laptop I'm using now back in 2016, but it wasn't exactly cheap then.
Look up an older version of Waves. I use Waves 10.
Very cool technique. Thanks for the video! What are the pros and cons between using this technique or using dynamic EQ?
This actually is dynamic eq. With a pretty wide Q
Hey Jordan, quick question, have you ever noticed that the c4 and c6 plugins affects the tone even if you check bypass on all four bands?
This is driving me crazy cause it kinda evens out the sound more than I wanted. Or maybe it's just me.
Like this, if I bypass all the for bands, and then bypass the whole plugin, it changes the sound, with the plugin engaged and the bands bypassed the sound gets a lot darker.
1:21 That fx grouping sounds really convenient! I'm a reaper user so I wonder if this is Pro Tools exclusive or if it can be done in Reaper as well. First time hearing about this feature
Saaaame
I love u dude!!
Hi do you still add / use compression on the original guitar track then apply the C4 afterwards on the same track ?
I wasn't expecting a 16 ms attack time. Was type of compressor is this, VCA, FET? I know not all milliseconds are equal.
When we're applying this technique, how much mind should be given to the transient? None at all, because it's just that specific frequency range? Or is there still some sort of low-end transient or punch in the chugs that we should bear in mind?
Great tip are you using any low and high pass filters on the guitars in the video?
Yup, usually around 100hz and 10-12k
Jman, what's your view on the double tracked hard panned principal guitars, and having a slightly diff EQ setting, eg on L guitar 8K -2db, and R guitar +2db so you get a 4db swing to make it sound slightly wider. Do you do this trick?
I'm not Jordan but after following him for awhile, he seems to always have 2 guitar tracks only, 1 panned left 1 panned right with the SAME exact settings for EQ/compressor on both. That's assuming rhythm of course; lead's different for sure.
Thank you do you still add compression to the individual
I believe this trick was first used to get bfmv their tone on the poison album
supercool thks
It didn't work well for me. I tried doing the same with the Toneboosters EQ4 and it's much better! That plugin goes for around $40, and it's similar to the FabFilter Pro Q 3.
I'm emailing waves to see if I can exchange my C6 by a Puig Tec, since I got the C6 just for this purpose and the EQ4 worked better.
Also, this song doesn't half enough palm mute in my opinion. If you work with punk rock or hardcore, there are millions of songs where the verse is palm muted and the chorus is open power chords, it would have been a much more audible difference in my view.
How well does this work for quad tracked guitars?
I stopped using C4 , it was causing very audible phase distortion. And yes , it really cause phase distortion confirmed by Waves itself. Thats why they came up with the 0 phase distortion version....its called LMB linear phase. But TDR Nova its free and does a way better job without phase compromise.
tdr nova, tdr ferris, tdr kotelnikov all my FAVORITE plugins!!
You should have rendered the waveform to show what it looked like after using the plug-in... Just for visual reference.
What do you do with the CLA-3A, 3db GR?
Do you remember what the guitar signal chain was? Sounds killer.
No - I didn't track this but I think it was a Kemper
are the guitars editied?
Two seconds in I knew it was The Afterimage
Lol yup
Just curious. Why do you apply the same plugin on both of the guitar tracks instead of summing them together using an aux and then just use one instance of each plugin?
See comment below. I like to have the flexibility as I often will have to adjust the volume or automate a plugin on only one side of the guitars
Is this free or? If not is there a substitute?
Question: Is there a reason why you aren't processing the guitars through a single stereo aux instead of having the L&R tracks grouped with mirrored plug-in settings?
Yup. There are times in the mix where i want to adjust or automate only one side of the guitars. This allows me a lot more flexibility.
Ahhh. I see. Totally makes sense. Thanks for the quick response! Cheers!
I'm having the opposite problem. Palm mutes sound fine but open chords sound muddy. WTF?
Can you do this same trick with a Dynamic Eq? I'd imagine that in this case, you'd set one of the band's frequency to 220Hz (in-between 90-350Hz). Then set the Q wide enough so it's covering the entire spectrum (90-350Hz). I'm curious about this method because I own a Dynamic Eq, but no Multiband Compressor. Thanks.
Sure - basically the same thing. I haven’t used a dynamic Eq but I’ve heard it used interchangeably with multiband comp
Hardcore Music Studio
I posted this question is a couple different forums and the response was about 50/50. One side saying they're interchangeable, and the other, that they're two separate plugs and will affect the signal in different ways.
Is the difference that a MBC compresses the frequencies when they are above the set threshold, while a DynEq cuts/boosts a specific freq when it hits the set threshold?
Sorry, I'm not sure as I haven't used a dynamic EQ. But yeah, that makes sense that you could set it to either boost or cut frequencies without other factors of compression like attack and release time.
Two different plugins won't ever do the same thing. But honestly, 99% of the time, the difference is unnoticeable.
when you say, "two different plugins," are you referring to two different MBC's or two different types of plugins, i.e. a MBC and a DynEq?
I dont hear any difference either. I have fantastic studio monitors, maybe my ears arent tuned in enough? i replayed this a thousand times. I just dont hear a change. He describes it as a big change, but im missing that. Ill have to try this with my own recordings to see if its worth it
Did The Afterimage release these stems? Where did you get these?
I mixed the song!
Dude, that is sweet! I absolutely love that album! Did you mix the entire album? What else have you mixed? I'd love to listen to more of your work. Subscribed!
Maybe some offtopic question: what mic is this one you're talking on?
Shure SM7B
Thank you very much, I was pretty sure it's Shure, but didn't know the model. Again, thanks a lot!
4:30 I honestly can't hear any difference at all. What am I missing?
A decent pair of headphones/monitors probably...
Honestly were talking about transparent compression that only affects a certain articulation of the guitar riff. Even knowing what he is doing specifically, it's hard to hear what's being accomplished with multiband compression. It takes lots and lots of time in the box mixing yourself, your ears will start to pick out the subtle, yet important aspects of compressing metal that create the sounds we've all listened to since Vulgar Display of Power
How do you know that the palm mute lands at 350 Hz?
He's been doing it for a while, he already knew it would be between 100 to 400hz.
You can also use the solo button right next to the bypass button and listen in on what frequencies jump out...then that is the sweet spot. Every guitar take has a different range depending on where you play on the neck and how low the tuning is. Used this for a bit now and it helps tremendously.
What they said! Years of doing it.. but as a rule, "muddy" or "woofy" frequencies are around the 150-400hz mark.
What is the name and the band of this song? Thank you! From Thai Fan
Its Pursue by The Afterimage
Frank Hernandez Thank you!
thats a huge mic buddy......
Rockerpower Naga sure sm7b. Such an awesome mic
With so good playing I think it actually sounded better without the C4. Prefer it when it only reacts to 'some' of the palm-mutes, not all of them, depending on what fret on the guitar.
What’s up with UA-cam? This never came to me through my subscriptions
noreaction the video was obviously set to private, which means that only people that got the link can watch it.
That's strange, you should have been notified. Hmm
Found it in my email, anyway great video, I like these videos in the style of "Here's a common problem, and here's how to fix it". Lately I've been wondering how to create tones in my bass guitar that match/blend well with my guitar tones without sounding over the top below 400 hertz or so
Or you can just roll off all those bassy frequencies in the guitars with a simple eq and let a real bass guitar add the bassy frequencies. Should sound similar when they play together. But cool trick.
The length of a palm mute's bass tapering off is different than when a bass plays the same note, so I feel it's better to still keep some low end for the guitar. Also, for bass guitar, Jordan lowers the EQ of that ~300ish range specifically for allowing the lower end of the guitars to still be present. (Of course, guitars are cut off lower than that to make room for bass guitar and kick)
set the knee to hard. works better for me.
Wtf. Midi guitar?
thats not metal thats mallcore
😂
I'm not complaining here but you've got me confused. If you're compressing the guitars and probably everything else in the mix then you've literally killed your dynamic range. So your music is going to sound LOUD and quickly give your listener ear fatigue and they'll love your songs, for a few plays, and then the ear fatigue will make them look for new songs to give them that dopamine hit they're desiring and they'll quickly move on to the next new shiny thing! Sort of like if I had typed this entire paragraph in ALL CAPS you'd wonder why I WAS SCREAMING AT YOU?!?! You haven't made anything less muddy, YOU'VE JUST MADE IT ALL LOUD NOW. The reason older bands have such a huge following is that their albums, especially mastered for vinyl, were made to be listened to over and over and over again because they had great dynamic range, which compression of this type completely destroys. And that's what has me confused. Why would you want to produce a mix that is going to turn your band into a here today, gone tomorrow type of band?
Think of C4 as an EQ automated gain pot, when the level of the audio in the selected frequency range passes the threshold it pulls down that frequency range, rather than just compressing the full bandwidth of the audio.
I see. So it's like sidechained compression for ducking. Got you! Thanks.
Ok guys. Let’s think about something that is glaringly obvious. This is NOT multi band compression. He even mentions this several times when telling you to use only 1 of the bands on the C4. You do not need a C4. You need a compressor with a side chain input....which is just about every plug in compressor made these days.
Multi band compression would be compressing more than one band......therefore called MULTI BAND. If compressing just one band, use any compressor with a side chain.
Btw, shall we discuss some ratio/attk/release settings to obtain different sounds? Nah....why bother.
Ok, so I’ve just vented a bit.....I’ll try to contribute something so I don’t look like a complete arse......don’t copy your exact settings for your dbl gtr track. Choose slightly different eq points and a slightly different compression eq side chain as well as the Q of the side chain compression. This will add a touch of natural width to the gtrs that are doubled.
Good luck!
JJ
www.BoogieTracks.com
A regular compressor with a sidechain wouldn't be the same, because that would compress the WHOLE signal when the low mids crossed the threshold. It still needs to be a multiband comp so it can attenuate ONLY that frequency range.
@@hardcoremusicstudio could you use something like fab filter pro Q in dynamic mode instead?
Andy sneap only did good on the more things change and the first two pissing razors albums after that he went to far with bloody loudness war and over compression second that song your mixing is not metal metal core is not real metal