Modern Hybrids Suck. 16 Years Ago, Toyota Got it Absolutely Right.
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- Опубліковано 3 тра 2024
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Today I drive an often overlooked, but nevertheless brilliant car - the Toyota Crown. A legendary nameplate stretching back to 1955, the Crown is Toyota's answer to the BMW 5-series and Mercedes E-Class, yet is normally seen outside is home market badged as a Lexus. Today I show you why I think this car is better than modern hybrids.
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Just for info: The Toyota/Lexus HSD driveline is not a CVT in the traditional sense (metal belts running on variable diameter pullies) but it uses planetary gear sets (ring gear + planet gears + sungear, like we know from an oldskool automatic gbox and the Sturmey-Archer 3sp bicycle hubs ;-) They are not combined with a torque convertor but rather with a beefy e-motor and e-generator. fully computer controlled. No clutch because it is not needed. It's a bloody brilliant design. Extremely reliable.
i like this Crown! I expect it to be bullit proof reliable.
Yep HSD is what we should have all been driving instead of diesels. They had the right idea all along imo. That diesels we're not suitable for light duty passenger application.
Good that i bought a 2017 Toyota Auris 1.8 Hybrid, which has the HSD drivetrain in it, as my first car xd
Ford actually used that planetary gear transmission in the Fusion Hybrid in the US Market, which combined with the other Mazda/Toyota tech in the car, ended up being one of the most reliable cars in it's class in America for it's entire production run.
Whoooah
@@0tispunkm3y3r unfortunately HSD doesn't help while driving on highways/autobahns. I own Lexus RX and it consumes 9-10l of petrol on autobahn, while a typical same power output 3l diesel requires only 6l of diesel at the same speed in a similar weight and size car. Considering diesel is usually also a bit cheaper, I end up paying almost double for the same trip my friend does in his diesel car. I love my RX though, city driving is where it shines.
14:22 Those grab handles mentioned, these have been a tradition for most cars of this class in Japan, they are there to ease the getting in and out rather than when the car is being driven. The sort of person who gets to sit in the back on these cars tend to be older or even elderly so these features were appreciated. Started to appear from mid 1980s.
I figured that would be the reason. Thanks for confirming it for me.
yes.. I have those in my 1989 S130 RoyalSaloon, but the SuperSaloon doesnt have those.
@@dhanihartanto3332 That is because come S130 series, the Super Saloon trim level was no longer the top of the range as it were previously.
Modern cars seem to be totally undesirable eveything from 15 + years ago seemed so much better.
And even 20 years ago we were complaining they didn’t make them like they used to!
@@norseman4763 In 2035 we will be saying cars from the 20s were so much better.
Theyre not mate. Only in your head.
Cars are getting ibetter and safer but also increasingly complicated, in some instances unnecessarily so. One example, electronic parking brakes.
You'll always idolize the cars from the era when you were growing up. I was born in the mid 90s so 2000s cars will always be the best imo
I own a 2013 GS 450H with essentially the same drive train. In normal everyday driving, nothing beats it for smoothness. The eCVT combined with this bigger engine and e-motor have enough torque to keep the revs down and make it feel like a regular auto before lockup. The v6 sound is not unpleasant so when you do mash the throttle it's actually enjoyable. And deceptively fast, as you have a different orientation of acceleration as opposed to climbing through gears. I absolutely adore every minute of being in it. I'm currently on 16 months of ownership and have added 50K kilometers, it now sits at 272K km. No oil consumption, no fault codes stored in any module other than an intermittent tpms sensor that probably has a low battery. Interior still looks fresh.
In other words: if you want it, you'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands.
As another GS450h owner (2007 model) I share your sentiment. It is a great car. Mine is only at 250,000 ish km and I have had it for 5 years now. Had to replace the battery as it was getting on in age, but that is just a battery thing. I had the TPMS sensor issues too, but I jsut got them replaced as they are a consumable item. The CVT is quiet as the RPMs when cruising as you say stay low. I have had absolutely 0 engine issues and I just keep up on regular maintenance. The 2GR is going to probably last until the heath death of the universe.
$3.50 is the best I can do.
@@s4nder86 goddamn Loch Ness monster! I ain't giving you mah three fiddy!
Another GS450h owner here. Mines a facelift (2017) Premier and is a terrific car. Sonic titanium with black leather, sunroof and 19” diamond cut option wheels, ML surround, head-up display, etc. It’s comfortable, quick enough, economical (42 mpg average) and gets admiring glances from other road users as it’s relatively rare. Reliability wise it’s passed all its mots through the years with flying colours and the only additional expense I’ve had is a new set of wiper blades recently. All in all a terrific car which I will keep until I have to stop driving.
A early mk4 GS 450H owner here had mines coming up to four year now put 20k mileage on it now at 83k. The previous owners did not look after her well so I have spent a small fortune keeping her well maintained re wear and tear spent $2000 last year on new condenser new exhaust box and some other little things. Year before that $1170 year before that re 4x new discs and 2x front wheel bearings and year before that around $700 for four new tpms sensors. I just changed the 12 volt for a second time as only lasts 2-3 years $406. So as you can see I’ve spent a small fortune but the car engine has been reliable and never let me down no oil leaks or issues. The drive is lovely and super fast when you need it. I average in summer time 38mpg with spirted driving combined city and motorway and 35mpg in winter (due to hybrid battery performance better in summer re heat). If I was to sell the car I’d buy a newer last model 2018 version if I could afford it. Mines also has the mark Leverson speaker system which is the best I’ve ever heard which I blast loud everyday with Afro beats and Metallica and hip hop and people are shocked it’s the OEM system and think it’s been ungraded.
10:37 I had a 2006 gs450h for five years and it was the best car I ever had! Whisper quiet, smooth, reliable and a proper wolf in sheeps clothing, plus the dealerships treat you like royalty!
I've got a 2010 GS450H... feels like it's made from granite.
Ehhhh? It was quietish but nothing special. That tranny was anything but smooth, the brakes where janky too and its ass was so heavy the dampers were incapable of dealing with highway bumps at 120kmh+. Fast on a straight but Bimmers or Mercs with 60 HP less were even faster. Lastly, those battery were anything but reliable and an absolute fortune to fix. That car was way too expensive and dynamically, way to inept, unfortunately... Infiniti did it better on their first attempt in the m35h. Faster, better handling, equally reliable and way better built.
Lexus doesn’t mess around. My uncle had a GS300 for a very long time. Then he sold it and bought an SC400 in “imperial jade green”.
Imported from Canada as it was never sold in the EU, with a tan interior and the automatic gearbox paired to that 4.0l 1UZ 💀
The GS ran its entire life without troubles, the SC400 is now at 270.000kms without skipping a beat 🤷♂️ its been fully repainted. Ready for another 25y as our mechanic said 😆
Any toyota hybrid is good even new
Exactly. They're all fantastic. In fact, I've test drive the LBX recently and i can say they're getting better (compared to my 8 year old Toyota hybrid). It's just that everything else is shit, precisely because they build hybrids around DCTs. Which are shit anywhere other than on the race track. The eCVT is a magnificent engineering achievement.
@@peterpodgorskiEven when Toyota is using any transmission other than a e-CVT, it's usually a traditional planetary gear transmission because it will have a far smoother experience than a DCT.
@@peterpodgorskieven when Toyota isn't using the e-CVT, they will use a traditional auto with planetary gears instead to give it a smoother experience. (Hybrid MAX & iForce MAX)
The new Crown -the lifted sedan model that is- with the Hybrid Max powertrain (2.4L Turbo hybrid) producing a healthy 340hp for example.
Excellent and getting better every year 👍
I bought a 2015 Yaris full options to rent out. I am sold on Toyota. I prob go Toyota from now on. There is not comparision.
Reliable, somehow fast and luxurious Hybrid is the way to go.
Totally agreed. Treated myself with a 2019 Lexus ES300h Luxury - just a gem for long commutes.
@@6rimR3ap3r Haha, but thats neither fast nor luxurios lol... Theres diesels out there that are more frugal, faster and will last longer.
@@AI-qd4vb an ES in full luxury trim isn't luxurious? Tell me you've never driven one without telling me you've never driven one... It's the size of a 5 series / A6 / E-class with a +65.000€ price tag for a reason.
@@AI-qd4vblong lasting diesels have been legislated out of production unless you do rep miles. I struggle to equate luxury with an engine that sounds like a tractor on start up! I’ll stick with Lexus thanks
@@AI-qd4vblast longer??? You live in dream land. Lexus hybrid has no turbo, starter motor, alternator, adblue, dpf, clutch or dsg/dct whatever stupig gearbox. A hybrid battery swap cost the same as a clutch and dual mass flywheel in a dieasel, but last longer. We have 3 lexus hybrids in the fleet. Over 500k miles. Driven by stupid idiots sometimes. They are still going strong . Nothing will beat toyota/lexus hybrid reliability.
Completely agree James, i also feel similar with my 2009 LS600hL - the EV side helps improve economy and useful in residential/city environments with no engine running, yet the ICE V8 gives you that long range ability too when needed. 34mpg often achieved on long roadtrips. The future of motoring is obviously 15 years ago! Rear fridge is a plus too 🤣
I've driven the GS450h, the interior is great, only downside is the CVT, otherwise it's very reliable, especially compared to the e klass and the 5 series
TBH I don't mind the Planetary Power Split/eCVT that Ford/Toyota use. It's smooth, does what you want, and they're practically indestructible... and they're extremely efficient on top of all of that, way better than the traditional rubber-band style CVT
An E-class is going to be better mechanically.
The CVT is not a CVT. It's amazing. I nearly bought one but went Skoda superb because I want boot space and seat backs that can be lowered.
That's why I drive the GS V8, the 430 for 8 years as a daily.
@@martinsvensson6884 🤣
Jay, i implore you to do a little bit more research on normal CVTs Vs the Toyota Planetary CVT style transmission that is in this and lexus models. Very very different transmission mechanically and very robust, it also makes sense in these vehicles as they just sit slightly off idle at Hwy speeds, and are silky smooth.
This is incredibly popular in Jamaica especially with scammers. It's so popular that there are several songs about it
Mhm, and it hasn't stopped used car dealers fr bringing them in.
This Crown has a full digital lcd speedometer all the way back 2008.
Mercedes first put a full digital speedometer in 2013 in the S-Class (W222) and BMW first put a full digital speedometer in 2015 in the 7 Series (G11).
And to top it all of the crown is really reliable and cheap to maintain
The 2010-2012 Range Rover did that before the S-Class and 7 Series.
My 2008 S class had a digital speedo.
Astra Gsi had this in the 80s as did the Honda s2000 a decade later
That's not true. 6WB digital instruments became an option in the F01 7 series and F1x 5/6 series in 2011. 4WS was an option from the start. Night vision was an option even in the previous generation E6x 5/7. I don't think anything in this car was truly revolutionary but it's rare to see euro luxury cars with all these options because they were expensive add-ons regardless of trim where I get the impression that JDM cars tended to have them as part of a trim level.
I don't think I'd take one of these over a 535d (which is both quicker and more economical without the CVT and antiquated, expensive battery to fail) but for the option of doing short journeys without killing a DPF I can see the appeal. The interior is clearly better quality than a BMW of the same era (I'm looking at you, melted door handles and broken dash vents…) but it doesn't *look* as nice.
I own one of these. Probably the best car I've ever owned.
Mine has night vision which is pretty amazing for its time.
Yep bought one last year, the best part for me is having guys in euro cars pull up next to me at the lights thinking it's a Camry, only to get blown away haha.
@@JasonISF Being gapped by a long Camry must be soul destroying
I have one of these too. Love the understated luxury and power
Even though Ni-MH batteries is slowly replaced by the more popular Li-Ion ones, Ni-MH has proven itself to be a very durable battery hence why you can still see it being used for Toyota's regular hybrid cars, while their Plug-In variants are the ones using Li-Ion battery.
Toyota are dropping the Li-lon batteries and going back to Nickel batteries now, as the tech has come on to make them more viable and reliable long term than the Li equivalents
Makes sense my gs 450h original ni mh still going strong 12 years later for now.
@@riccccccardo They are long lasting if you use them daily. Taxi hybrids last 300,000 miles. But if you use them only occasionally (3 x per week, short distances) you will find they need replacement under 8 years. They are not expensive to replace but they are some of the best vehicles you can buy for distance traveled.
@@alechappy2070 I use mine 5-6 days a week usually it had 6 previous owners Lexus quoted me £3000 to change the hybrid battery. What’s more annoying the 12 volt only lasts two and a half years I’ve just replaced it a 2nd time at Lexus. Just the way it is.
I've had a 2013 GS450h for a couple of years. The powertrain was slightly detuned from the previous generation for the sake of fuel efficiency. Lose a couple tenths from 0-60 (still under 6 seconds), but I understand quite a bit better economy. It's averaged 39MPG in the 18k miles I've had it, with my daily commute very short at under 4 miles. Longer trips can see mid to high 40s, I got 47 on a single tank from Inverness to Taunton. Any minor niggles I had when I bought it were quickly resolved by a great dealer thanks to the Lexus relax 10 year warranty. They've been fantastic every time I've been back for servicing too.
Yes, the CVT can be odd above 70mph, where it's in the second output gear and it'll just pin the revs at redline at full throttle. Cruising at those speeds the engine is at ~1100RPM. Unlike the smaller engined hybrids, the engine doesn't have to work hard. Most of the time it'll be gently humming away under 2000RPM to get up to speed effortlessly and quickly. Even full acceleration up to 60 gently builds the revs up, it doesn't just pin at redline.
Although the electric motor is rated at 200HP, the tiny battery (about 1.8kwh) limits the system output. I do wonder what they'd have been like with a better battery, although the 15 year unlimited mileage warranty isn't to be sniffed at I guess.
Many of these are used as a Taxi here in Japan and the handlebars on the back of the front seats are for helping people (I believe mostly elder) to get in and out.
Everone in Japan is elderly. There are 7 children there. 😂
In the USA, Lexus is ALWAYS A Great Choice!!!
Hybrids Make SO MUCH MORE SENSE Than EV’s!!!
Usa is one of the few countries that think lexus is a luxury car😂
@@lukezi3952 it is. im sorry it absolutely is. imagine thinking a 100k plus car isnt luxury lol. your mind is mush. im sorry you think only euro cars that fall apart after 5 years and cost a fortune to maintain and stay in the shop regularly are true luxury. i'll take my lexus and enjoy it trouble free any day over them
@@MyKeeP81 Lexus is 10 years behind german rivals. So if you compare new lexus to 10 year old germans yeah sure it can seem like a ”luxury” car😆
I've got the GS450H that you mention, i think a hybrid with a big engine suits a luxury saloon really well. On my car the steering is quite heavy so i think thats different on the Crown. I like that on older hybrids there is no pedestrian warning noises at slow speeds. Mine is on 130k miles and its fantastic. Make no mistake, there is maintenance involved, its no corolla but it is very reliable.
Sold my 2022 Camry hybrid SL for a 2010 Crown Hybrid (JDM import) and it was the best thing I ever did. Faster, smoother, more comfortable, looks better inside and out I could go on and on. Still gets 9-10l per 100kms driven sensibly too around town.
I currently own a 2009 model of this car here in Aus. Bought it in 2022 with 77k on the odometer. Now 2 years later at 95k never had any problems with it. It's far the best car I've owned out of the 10 cars I've owned previously including the German counterparts. I kid you not it's the only car that wished me a Merry Christmas and Happy new year audibly through the infotainment system in a female Japanese voice obviously in Japanese and saved me from 2 crashes by beebing at me and cutting acceleration when I wasn't paying attention.
BTW this car is fast for it's type and era even by todays standards. I would know cause vehicles try to overtake me from behind (Mind you I wasn't doing anything wrong and was doing just slightly over the speed limit) by them merging into the other lane coming to a complete stop. Their lane was going to merge 70m ahead back into my lane. This included on separate occasions a Kia Stinger and a newer model AWD Volvo XC60. Let's just say it changed their opinion of Toyota Hybrids being slow...
Honestly, from the review , the car sounds amazing.
It seems powerful, economic and luxurious enough.
Apart from that it has that jdm cool factor and honestly doesnt even look that bad.
Maybe its just the way James presents cars but i want one after watching this...
Glad I got myself one of these before every big UA-cam channel started talking about them. Best car I've ever owned.
9:24 Funny you should mention that. This, and it's Lexus counterpart, have the best in class turning circle. The Japanese seem to be the only ones that cared to properly engineer for this kinda stuff. Comes in pretty handy here in the tight streets of Asia.
BMW and Merc also have great turning circles on their RWD cars.
The only bad CVT is those with the belt/chain while those with only a pair of electric motors and a small planetary set are phenomenal for reliability unlike the belt driven trash that needs the fluid changed every twenty to forty thousand miles.
This^^^ Toyota's Hybrid E-CVT gets completely mischaracterized.
I was lucky enough to obtained one 3 years ago with literally every options: night vision, rear facing radar, lane keeping assit, extra air box to cool rear seat passangers.
If you absolutely must do the hybrid thing, and you want a reliable system; Toyota is the only game in town.
"modern hybrids suck" is a stupid take when anything Toyota Hybrid will go 300k miles+ without trying and have very slow depreciation.
@@louiearmstrong Huh? I didn't say hybrids suck. Toyota hybrid systems are the best in the business, and I hold the Prius in very high regard. Other brands, not quite so much. BMW and Land Rover systems are very unreliable, and give a lot of trouble. However, I do think hybrids are a bit pointless. You're just adding needles complication to your vehicle, with the potential for high repair costs as it gets older. And you can get better fuel economy from a half decent diesel. Skoda Octavia; 70 mpg plus.
you know toyota licenses out their hybrid tech to other companies like Hyundai, ford, and more?
@@matthewgodwin3050 i was referring to the video title
@@louiearmstrongyep my gs 450h losing maybe £500 each year depreciation where’s as my previous Audi was losing £1000 per year.
The CVT is not belt driven like the Jaco garbarge and others use. It operates with planetary gears...and it's hugely reliable.
As the owner of a Ford Fusion Hybrid , while it's no luxo sedan, fortunately Ford bought the Toyota hybrid technology and for the most part, especially late run models its trouble free and operates pretty well,
But I do agree, the Crown aka modified Lexus is a great car.
You cant just add motor and ICE power together due to when each of these items produces their peak values in operation. Theyre often not operating at their peak points at the same points because they're doing different jobs.
Also NiMH batteries are again one of these things that people seem to misunderstand. Its not that its not old technology and that is all they had at the time. Its that NiMh battery technology is well suited to the task at hand: very very durable and able to withstand the constant cycling of a small pack size, able to take large current input/output, able to handle extremes of temperature very well and hence only need air cooling, able to hold their SoC for long periods, more ecological due to materials used, and provide enough energy density for the pack size limitation required and also provide a cost advantage over lithium for the application.
Yes lithium makes more sense for bigger packs as you need even better energy density. But the NiMh pack technology is perfectly suited to the task of hybrid powertrain. Ultimately its the most reliable, long lived and economic choice. This is a toyota remember.
I have a 2.0 Corolla hybrid estate. I find it more than entertaining enough, quiet and comfortable. It'll do mid 50s pretty easily too.
It's so strange. You have an actual JDM car video and nobody in the comments says JDM. You have something that isn't a JDM car (like a Supra, RX7, Basic Skyline, etc) and people are saying JDM all the time.
i feel like people don't have clear understanding regarding what domestic car markets these days..
ive seen people who call a honda/toyota economy car, which are built locally aka not actually from japan, a JDM
I think people get confused and think JDM just means Japanese. Similar to OEM+, which in the late 90s meant using parts from a superior model in the range or from another brand in the group (Audi parts on a VW, for example). These days people use it to describe something that looks similar to factory 🤷
@@CT-oe1ug It doesn't help when even someone like Shmee gets it wrong - recently adding JDM to the title of one of his videos about a Skyline GT-T, which was sold in New Zealand, Singapore, and Hong Kong. Therefore not Japanese Domestic Market only. Therefore not JDM. It really isn't that difficult.
@@veemacks7255 Very true.
@@veemacks7255 wrong, it means Japanese drift motor
My Dad bought a Hinda Jazz hybrid in Dec 2012. We are still driving it around today it's a great car.
Coup d'etat? Ha! That gave me a chuckle.
Great video. Love your Japanese ephemera vids
Thank you Jay for this video. It's actually perfect timing because I am contemplating importing either a hybrid Crown, or a naturally aspirated 60th anniversary G package Crown Athlete 2GRFSE. I was leaning more for the naturally aspirated but I found your video very informing.
@JayEmmOnCars The 4th gen (2013+) Lexus GS450h F Sport is the ultimate version of this hybrid platform - it was called the New N Platform. RWD, rear wheel steering, adjustable variable suspension, adjustable steering feel, bigger boot, same reliable engine and transmission, and a dedicated water pump. Those were sold in the UK if I recall. The ultimate version was the GWS224 series crown, because it was the last hybrid V6, but built on the TNGA-L (current Lexus LS) platform.
ayo this has nothing on a modern hybrid 5 series yet is 16 years old. didnt realise toyota was this ahead of the game. thanks for the vid, cheers!
its cvt rear wheel drive v6 still getting roughly same mpg as avalon hybrid 2015 which is front wheel driev so hybrid ssytem works lot more for effeincy..the onyl otehr cvt hyrbdi i rerember is koniegsegg gemera regera mental hospital cars, and maybe that torodial high toruqe cvt nissan if i rerember right
I just realized that I watch almost all of James' videos while working out. I don't know, these are just perfect for that.
A lot like my Lexus IS300h, which I really enjoy. It’s incredibly smooth, great on fuel, and decently quick. The eCVT is a cut above the rest.
Modern E-CVT 'yota hybrids are solid, rode a modern Corolla sedan and a C-HR not long ago and the are amazing.
It seems the Poms don’t get the Camry, even though the Irish do.
The ES300 and the Camry share the same platform. They are both truly impressive cars. The e-CVT is vastly superior to the Variator Belt CVT used in non-Hybrids.
Not any more. They tried to sell it for a couple of hears in the 2.5 hybrid form but only sold about a dozen, so gave up
James, thanks for another great video.
Simp
You should have a go in Lexsus ES300 they still have it right. I am not a massive fan of CVT but in lexus it just makes sense- ES is the smoothest car I ever drove.
The ES300 and the Camry share the same platform. They are both truly impressive cars. It seems the Poms don’t get the Camry, even though the Irish do. The e-CVT is vastly superior to the Variator Belt CVT used in non-Hybrids.
@@mortofromoz1We did get the Camry but no one bought it so it was withdrawn from sale after a couple of years. People here just want SUVs. It's a real shame. I suspect it would have sold better if they just offered an estate version!
Informative; thank you!🎩
Obviously, it was mentioned that we got it in GS450h form, but I think there were several things that contemporaneously were issues with those cars. I just happened to own GS300 at the moment, because for £1,000 that it a lot of car and I just didn't want to spend much at all considering I drive it maybe once month at best and 2000 miles years is all it gets. As such fuel economy does not matter for me, that said £400 road tax hurts a little bit. Considering it replaced RC-F with £700 road tax it is not as much of an issue and secondly I just didn't want to keep the car that is depreciating... and there is no way GS300 depreciates more than it already has,
Anyway, back to 450h. The problem was really the price, it was going almost for M5 money - £52k when new in UK, and M5 if memory serves started at jus £5 shy of £60k.Yet for the crowd that buys performance saloons it had no handling, no sound and was just all around weird choice. It really needed to be maybe £10k cheaper to combat 530d, but even then it would have been quite a bit more expensive. The second, and I would argue, main reason - UK taxation simply killed it, it just favoured diesels at the time and didn't care much about "real" life pollution, so people were incentivised to buy diesels not hybrids. Third reason would be CVT, it really kills the buzz when driving. Lexus actually resolved that with next generation so called eCVT, but the battle was already long lost, overall 4th gen GS was great car GS450h in particular, but again due to high price and no incentives it never caught on. Final nail was delayed introduction of PHEV, that is how BMW successfully produced very attractive cars for company cars schemes with low taxation (530e), if Lexus had switched to lithium, with maybe 20 miles of EV only range and plug-in option, it may just had a chance, but Lexus never did that in car market, only now they have extremely well selling PHEV SUVs.
In short - they just trageted wrong market segment, car was too expensive and they missed tax incentives by not offering PHEV, they fixed the CVT in next generation, but the time was over for entire saloon market as SUVs just took over.
That said you can still get same smooth experience in modern Lexus hybrids RX450h before 2022, LC500h, LS500h. Sadly, Lexus now going downsizing way - 2L turbo hybrid just doesn't feel right.
P.S. for £8,200 it is a little bit pricey, especially considering GS450h could be had probably closer to £6,000. What is worse, you can also get 4th gen GS450h for probably £11k and that is upgrade in every imaginable way. So comparable 3rd gen is much cheaper, although the looks may be slightly controversial... not that Crown is particularly pretty, just JDM. But I genuinely like how 4th Gen looks, it is rare, modern, could be upgraded to latest mod-cons (like AA/CP). so it would be thoug to buy this one over newer GS.
What's AA/CP? Thanks
What's AA/CP? Thanks
@@RazeenMujarrab android auto, apple car play
Nice write up thanks. Yeah the gs 450 one mile electric only is a bit of a bummer but I think of it more as a turbo that assists when boost needed etc…. I average 35mpg in winter and 38mpg in summer with spirted motorway and city driving.
Great review. You see plenty of these here in New Zealand (we get a lot of ex-Japan cars) as well as "normal" Crowns of various generations. I test drove a previous generation Crown Royal and it was fantastic. Incredibly comfortable and refined with just enough power. Regret not buying it as I recall not being able to get the dealer to throw in a second aftermarket key in the purchase price (this was before used car prices went crazy). Now I'd give my left arm to have the same opportunity at the same price.
Had my Audi for almost a year before I realised it was a hybrid 😅
Lol Same when you come to tax it I guess?
6:09 In fact, Toyota still uses that battery technology in many of its current hybrids.
Hence, no, it is not old.
It is heavier, but cheaper and does not require so much control (namely, temperature, humidity, or SOC).
What these old cars miss is a design not around the hybrid.
Instead, the hybrid was placed inside an already developed design - which is not ideal, namely ending up losing much cargo space.
Great review of an amazing and interesting car. Thanks very much.
I would love to have a drive of the Lexus LS 600hl. 5 litre v8 with 327kw electric motor. I believe it was sold here in Australia in 07 to 08. There are three for sale currently in Australia.$29000 for 08 model with 290000 km on the clock. $36500 for 07 model with 116000 km. Don’t think I want to pay that much for a 4 seater and that old but would love a drive.😂
Love how you're into these JDMs, James!
I keep looking at the lexus GS cars from the 2000s and thinking that if I didn't have so.many kids, I would almost certainly have one of those. They just look so understated and cool. On a slight side note, have you done a review, or plan to do one in the the lexus ES? I have seen a few of them driving around my local town and they are so beautiful they make my knees ache! Would love to know more about them.
1:44 my friend has one of those.. such a nice car.. especially for it's age.. loved driving it for a few days when she dropped it to me for sound/rs/alarm.. so smooth and comfy, nice 1jz.. hate auto but didn't dread it like almost any other auto car I ever get stuck driving..
We had a 2nd generation
We had a 2nd generation Crown Custom in 1964. In those days the only airbags installed were the ones inside the tyres!
Hey Jay, thanks for not putting the link to the Toyota website in the description.
leather isn't suited for anything you sit on, unfortunately many brands decide you can't have non-leather in premium models or premium configs
Sport mode, a bit of fun, crawls around the corner :D I just like this guy.
I don't see a link to the website you show
The Infiniti M35h/Q70 hybrid is overshadowed by the Lexus/Crown in popularity, but still a great alternative for those who prefer the engagement of a torque converter automatic over the seamlessness of the eCVT.
The question mark in the bit about the massive handles for the rear passengers puzzles me. When I visited Japan 3 months ago I noticed that 90% of the taxis were Toyota Crown, mostly the late 80s/early 90s model. I shouldn't wonder this model catered to taxi drivers.
James what about that link to the Toyota website?..can't seem to find it here.
I have a 2007 GS450H and it has unfortunately been one of the least reliable cars I've owned. But I still love it. It wasn't the cars fault more previous owner letting the car sit and this was very bad for the hybrid battery. I still have the car because I genuinely cannot find any new car that isn't north of 70k to replace it. It's fast, quiet, comfortable. Great cars. Just buy one with a hybrid health check and all paperwork not like me 😂
What symptoms did you experience with yours? I have the same model Crown as in this video, but have noticed the hybrid battery level will deplete insanely fast when just using EV power (as in it'll drain from 80% to 10% within about 1km or less of driving.) It'll charge up just fine and won't drain overnight or anything, but it doesn't last long in car parks lol.
Some modern hybrids may suck but the ones I've driven recently - Toyota Corolla 2.0, BMW 330e, Volvo XC40 and Renault - have all had very good powertrains
I’d be curious is JayEmm knows about the Toyota Sai. It’s a Japanese market compact saloon that is basically a Lexus H250H, but it’s an interesting car if you look at the facelift model 2014 onwards.
I used to live in Asia and several of my friends had Crowns, though not the hybrids. These things are indestructible; they all told me the cars never had any problems. One even was lamenting that his car is getting old so he would love to get a new one but it still drove and looked like new without a hint of a problem so he couldn't justify replacing it :)
For its age it looks much, much newer than 2008. Even the gauge cluster is fully digital. For an 2008 car, that's insane.
All Toyotas latest hybrids are good nice to drive efficient smooth plenty of power there not race cars tho just like nearly every other car on the road your average car doesn't sound good anyway why not get a hybrid if you're not racing around everywhere i get 70 mpg out of mine easy i get alot more than that driving in urban environments
The Toyota SynergyDrive is a genius bit of kit. It's a little bit outdated compared to Honda's, but it's very efficient, unbreakable and smooth.
If you don't mind the CVT effect (and I must admit, it's unsettling wten you put your foot down), it's the best by a mile.
If you want something that (appears) more conventional, Honda is better, it's also easier to use for optimizing mpg, whereas Toyotas require you drive in a particular way, or you will get mediocre mpg.
Nah, the hybrid system in my 2023 CR-V Hybrid Touring is very good. 40 mpg on average in almost a year of driving; the whole hybrid system is very smooth and seemless (no tells in between switches); transmission is very good too; etc.
Can you link that toyota history page?
13:05 about how to brake smoothly in a Toyota with hybrid system.. I think in hybrid system, when the brake pedal is pressed, the regenerative / energy recovery also kicks in, so in this Toyota it felt like, we pressed the brake pedal a bit too much.. (which is not)
I found out in the website of Toyota brake system supplier of the hybrid models, that in some higher end Toyota models (the website mention Toyota Alphard) there are additional hardware sensors (& maybe software algorithm) to help drivers brake the hybrid cars smoothly just like non-hybrid cars..
But to engange this "Smoooth Braking mode" you have to press the "ECO mode" button first.
So..Please try this tips, if you happen to drive expensive model of Toyota hybrid cars
11:43
This excact system is now a go to for lots of easyern car makers, and is literally a pain in the backside (first thing i turn off every drive) and resets to on when the car is turned off.
The problem with hybrids, isn’t that they’re hybrid- it’s that without a manual transmission (THREE PEDALS!) there has NEVER been one I’d ever choose to drive, or give a shit if I did.
We have modern Toyota and Lexus hybrids and they are excellent
Lovely drivetrain!
I'm driving a Hyundai Tuscan 2024 Hybrid and I have to say it's an excellent drive. It's smooth and quiet most of the time. The only thing I don't like is a random acceleration hitch that I can't predict. It's not all the time though.
This car’s amenities are very similar to a 2003 LS430 with ultra luxury package that I once owned. It wasn’t a hybrid of course. Nowadays I have a 2021 Highlander Hybrid Platinum. The hybrid system is fantastic and regularly get 32+ mpg…and its a 3 row SUV! And I have the safer NiMh battery as well.
The Toyota hybrids have recently been upgraded and are apparently much better. I had a 1.8 2017 C-HR hybrid and that was a good car & nice to drive except when you wanted to get a move on as it became rather noisy.
I now have a 2020 model 2.0 Corolla excel sport touring hybrid. This is a much better car in every way. The ecvt gearbox works really well with this engine, much quieter and very smooth.
I currently own 2 Toyotas, an MR2 mk3 & the Corolla. Both brilliant cars and completely different in every way 😂
13:19 the odd brake feel will be due to the brake by wire. Toyota hybrids of that era at least used an electro-hydraulic control unit with no direct hydraulic connection from master cylinder to calipers, except as a failsafe.
Also regenerative braking
Question as you guys seem quite knowledgeable what is the purpose and point of Lexus every year doing a hybrid battery certification check on my gs 450h? What benefit do I get? Is it a warranty or cheaper to fix if faulty? Etc….?
Currently in a Lexus CT200h for commuting and it is a fantastic car for that task, just lacking some top end and fun power. So I’m thinking maybe an IS300h to replace, though, an Infiniti Q50 Hybrid has me very tempted as well. They do call the Q50 a Skyline in Japan after all!
Peak hybrid was the original MANUAL insight
3:08 Crown Royal...... I'd have to hang the purple bag from my rear view mirror. 😂
I lived in Japan for a good part of my life and moving back to the United States one of the things I was underwhelmed by the vehicles that are offered here in the United States. JDM cars seem to have so much more features in 2008 in even a family car like the Ipsum than a 2014 USDM car and built well. I’m driving a 24’ RAV4 and while it’s Definitely an upgrade from the big three there’s something about these older Japanese cars that feel right. I think this review Definetly hits that on the head. The JDM has created some phenomenal vehicles over the years that just are packed with features and designs that work.
As an owner of one of the latest Corolla Hybrids, I disagree that they suck. It's brilliant.
Admittedly, I've only had a short tryout, but I didn't think that the Volvo V60 T8 was rubbish.
Ohh boy I still have the 1982 Toyota crown super salon, I really love that car more than my new car.
As I've been looking at the Lexus GS 450h it's basically a Lexus,and that probably why it wasn't sold in that form by Toyota
You could always get a Lexus LS600H or even LS460 if you're not bothered about the electric bit. Much easier to get your hands on in the UK and glorious.
How does this 16 year old have a full digital gauge cluster, and today all Lexuses they have all these weird mix of digital with analog that looks like a cheap aftermarket mix. There's some dials, with a digital square in the middle, with overlaps, just ridiculous.
NiMH batteries are more suitable for frequent charge and discharge in a standard hybrid car (non plugin). It can withstand more discharge cycles than li-ion. Toyota still use them in select models.
TY J! 🙏🙏
the backseat handles are to assist ingress and egress of the cabin.
would love a review from you on the lexus is300h
For Western markets, they should have sold these under an "Imperator" division - since the name would be appropriate for a Japanese Imperial prestige nameplate. Of course pronunciation would have been difficult - coming out more as "Impelatol" (but that's not any worse than "Rexus"). I kid, with love.
I was waiting for this video
If the prat nav is programmed for uk / Europe, it’d be interesting to work out if the clever damping does work!
A early mk4 GS 450H F sport rear wheel drive etc owner here had mines coming up to four year now put 20k mileage on it now at 83k. The previous owners did not look after her well so I have spent a small fortune keeping her well maintained re wear and tear spent $2000 last year on new condenser new exhaust box and some other little things. Year before that $1170 year before that re 4x new discs and 2x front wheel bearings and year before that around $700 for four new tpms sensors. I just changed the 12 volt for a second time as only lasts 2-3 years $406. So as you can see I’ve spent a small fortune but the car engine has been reliable and never let me down no oil leaks or issues. The drive is lovely and super fast when you need it. I average in summer time 38mpg with spirted driving combined city and motorway and 35mpg in winter (due to hybrid battery performance better in summer re heat). If I was to sell the car I’d buy a newer last model 2018 version if I could afford it. Mines also has the mark Leverson speaker system which is the best I’ve ever heard which I blast loud everyday with Afro beats and Metallica and hip hop and people are shocked it’s the OEM system and think it’s been ungraded…
I have owned my 2008 GS 460 for 4 years and it is without a doubt a brilliant machine. My only real gripe is the lack of steering feel, which I understand is related to the electric power steering. I do not like hybrid vehicles, I cannot believe two complex drive trains in one vehicle is a good thing and I do not drink the EV green kool-aid currently in vogue either. My biggest concern is the ageing of rubber seals and such although I've not had a problem so far. I am sure it is capable of good fuel economy, but the acceleration is addictive, (spec'd at 5.4 seconds 0 to 60) but I cannot verify that it still has all it's ponies. I love your content, although many of the cars you review are not available here (Canada).
Regards Mac.
I’ve also had an 08 GS460 for almost 4 years now ha! With the 8 speed you can get 27mpg on the highway, once I went just 60-65mph for about 2 hours straight and got 31mpg. Adjustable suspension, cooled seats, great sound system, semi aniline leather 🤌
I desperately want one of these.
This car is great. Seen it. Very rare and it is out of this planet when it came out in 2008. I saw it in 2014 and i really liked it.