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Used to be a wrench at a Stihl dealer. Customer brought in a MS290 with a severely scored cylinder. Saw was only about a month old at the time. He lent it to someone and they ran straight gas in it and cooked it. Stihl wouldn't cover under warranty because of the straight gas. Cost of repair was high enough that customer bought a new saw. He didn't want his old saw so it sat under my workbench for quite a while. Service manager dropped of a box full of parts on my bench one day with no work order. He said it was for the saw under my bench. It was mine if I wanted it. New top end, new crank bearings and seals and a carb kit. Still have that saw today, 12 years later. Still runs like a top. Did buy a case for it though.
I have worked in the woods for some time and repaired saws. I find from my experience the cause for the intake boots getting torn like that is from 1st yes they get brittle from time, but the biggest culprit for failure is this, saw gets bar pinched in the wood being cut and the operator yanks too hard on the handle over stretching the vibration mounts and damages the boot.
I have the same problem in my concrete saw, normally when I have to repair something by myself I have to watch tons of videos and read millions of articles to reach the best possible conclusion, your video was the first one I saw and you literally solved all my doubts, keep the channel forever, thank you for your time.
Great job Dony! Started a small engine shop from home barn! You have taught me a ton! Saying thanks from Central Indiana! Send that 441 down here. I would slap an AM kit in it, rebuilt multiple 290s with a couple hundred hours on each!
The MS441 is a great. Bought a lightly used one last year. Never used it until recently after a storm came in and knocked down a few trees. Powerful saw
It makes sense because in a 2 stroke engine, the lubrication comes from the fuel. If you're not getting enough fuel that has adequate lubrication, the engine will be starved of fuel and lube. It can cause overheating and excess friction leading to engine damage from insufficient lubrication. A 2 stroke tends to rev higher when adjusted too lean or not enough oil in fuel. Either one of these conditions would eventually lead to damaging the engine. This is quite a bit coming from someone who doesn't work on small engines on a daily basis like you do. However, I have gained knowledge from people on UA-cam and have experienced it too. I have always been interested in this kind of stuff. I always learn from these videos.
I checked my intake boot for leaking by wrapping plastic tape around a 15 mm copper pipe in a taper-spiral so that it would fit into the carb intake, and then blew into it with the piston up. Thanks for all the great tips you have given me over the years, merci beau-coup!
My 441 boot cracked too with very few hours but cought it as soon as it started running lean. I think it was a combination of very cold weather and pulling too hard on the handle after getting it stuck in a tree. A very powerful saw though.
I’ve always mixed my fuel 40:1 if the machine calls for 50:1 and I also tune the carb slightly rich. Looking in the muffler the engines I have still looks brand new many years later
I like the 45 to 1 gas oil ratio. These motors need the extra lubrication. I'm going to start this practice going forward. PS: Watched your boot repair on MS192tc. Just got a used one and totally rebuilt it thanks to your videos. Look forward to weekly Friday videos. Keep em coming.
The first thing I thought, was grabbing the wrong gas can, and putting straight gasoline in it, instead of 2-cycle mix. I've never seen an intake boot like that. All my saws have fuel/air mixture screws, and I just adjust those, to make sure the mixture is right. Too rich, fouls spark plugs, and causes hit and miss running. Too lean, it just doesn't have the power, and, I don't allow that for just the reasons shown in this video. The fuel is the lubricant.
I had to rekit the carby on my brothers Honda GX25 4 stroke line trimmer, it was very hard to start & ran lean so I bought a $5 AUD carby kit & fitted it,now it runs like a beauty. The fuel pump diaphragm & the diaphragm for the needle was all stiff & dried up. I've bought parts to rebuilt my fathers 16 year old Honda GSV190 engine as it smokes up when cold,so far,I've ordered the piston rings but realized that I need to order the later model piston to suit the 014 rings. It's cheaper to order the new piston as well than the older 004 rings which are no longer available from Honda,I just need to order all of the seals & piston to fix it up. I'm ordering the parts from the U.S. because they seem to be able to do a better deal even than what they can on eBay.
Good one, you had me fooled! I was guessing it was the old "carbon buildup in the exhaust port" one! (Now I'm nervous my two cycle equipment is running lean without me realizing, but then I remember the spark plugs look rich if anything...)
Totally rebuilt my 044, used a big bore over sized kit (aftermarket), ran great until the crankshaft broke when I hit a nail that was inside an old tree. I told a few people that the crankshaft broke and I had to show them because they didn’t believe me, China junk metal failed and I’ll never buy anything but OEM ever again.
In hindsight I would have liked to see where that intake boot is located on the chain saw. Splendid video none the less. Thank you DB73 for all your fine work here. Cheers my Friend !!.
Good video Donny!!! I would love to show people this, that bring their saws in a total wreck with 3 year old gas in it, plugged air filter and super dull chain.....and they don't have a clue about what's wrong...
@@ralphnapierii1184 old ones need a pint to gallon ..i kee p blowing up old ez homlites .took me 3 of them to stop being stubborn. Oils the same as it was then because I collect old oil bottles and read them
@@ralphnapierii1184 I won't use synthetic oil ,its two watery my oil truck got hot with no oil pressure when I tried to use it.garbage,dumped it out soon as I could and put normal oil back
I’ve always ran my equipment with a bit more oil for added insurance against it blowing up, running it hard and hot seems to stop any carbon issues even with some of my machines running 32:1
A lot of people spread the myth that putting too much oil can create fouling or leanness, but here's the truth: At 50:1, the gas represents 50/51'ths of the mix, or 98.03% of the mix is gas. At 40:1 the gas represents 40/41 or 97.56% of the mix A 0.53% difference in the amount of gas in the mix will not make much difference in terms of leaness. The critical factor in leaness is the "air to mix" ratio - not the "oil to gas" ratio. This has to change by ~5% or more to make a significant difference. 25:1 means gas is 25/26 or 96% is gas Now look at what else varies the air to fuel mix ratio. The total amount of air getting into the cylinder is influence by the atmospheric pressure which can commonly vary between 1000 to 1020 mb over a few days. This change represents a 2% change in air pressure and means the saw will get ~2% more oxygen at 1020 than 1000 mb. Does anyone operating at the same elevation read the atmospheric pressure and then retune? - of course not, a stock saw can tolerate at least a +/- 2.5% change in air pressure which corresponds to shifting the mix down from 50:1 to about 25:1.
I am a stihl mechanic you should do a video on a ms194 the pom prons getting under the recoil cover have them take the cover off to clean it or thay will over heat the saw
If you cant afford to buy new, take some emery cloth or a pocket knife to remove melted aluminum from cylinder. Sometimes you can doctor up the piston if its not too bad.takes some time and labor.Of course new is allways better.
Baileys online logging supply sales a good aftermarket piston and cylinder kit,but often times you can clean the aluminum transfer out of the cylinder wall and use a good meteor piston with caber ring and only spend $50. A new oem piston and cylinder will run you $399,and is also a good option.
From someone who has never used it. I spoke to Shell before becoming a dealer about the oil. Shell said, it is far superior to anything on the market today, including anything we put out. That is their words, not mine. I spoke with the Shell Answer man who has a column in a truck magazine every month, you can ask him anything about oil or lubrication and he will give you the answers in detail.
45:1 or 50:1 is not making much of a difference, it's pretty much the same amount and in the user error variable. Most people mix at 45-55:1 since they don't measure perfectly. Trying to mix 32:1 or 40:1 does make a difference though, especially with modern synthetic oils that don't smoke.
What I love is when the owner doesnt like the answer then trys to pawn the job off on another guy. He says he took it to Joe blow and they said blah blah( usually half truths) and dont know why they wouldnt fix it. Then they try to get you to commit to being able to produce a miracle and magically get it to run again. Even though the engine is clearly toast. I had a guy pull that on me with a riding lawn mower. I told him no promises and Let me look it over. Afer doing a compression test and checking the cylinder heads, I discovered it was run dry. The damage was both top end and bottom end. He told me the other shop told him it could be fixed but he only gave me part of the story. I told him the crank bearings were bad too( I could hear the piston slop in the bottom end) The top end was wiped on both cylinders. I could see metal transfer on the cylinder walls. I also noticed it had a bad oil leak by the build up of crud around the base of the engine. I told him I could get another engine for it but I wasnt going to rebuild that engine. He ended up scrapping the mower.
@@donyboy73 Yup! I tell them its warrantied to the end of the driveway. lol. I quit doing warrenty on snowmobiles when a customer went and ragged on a fresh rebuild after I told him not to. He didnt blow it up or anything but thats just bull. Every manufacturer has a break in period on an engine and even aftermarket has break in on their parts. I was using Wisco Pistons and new cylinder sleeves. I NEVER just rebuild on side eather. I had a customer try and tell me it made no difference. I told him he could take it to someone else then. Both cylinders were pretty much gone. One had a hole through the piston caused by an over lean condition. He decided to let me do the job after I stood my ground. Now everytime I see him he brags about how great that snowmobile is. Thats because I did it correctly and wouldnt budge. Spring is comming buddy! I already have a line of lawn mowers to fix and sell. Take it easy!
I would fix this saw fore sure got a 441 c myself that I ran for a few years logging until the coil broke, planning a big bore kit after market coil and thinking about swapping for a non m tronic set up may e even do a Reed valve build or might just go back stock but certainly not junkies it, it's a dang good saw
problem is how much of the crap from the piston and jug got to the bearings??? also before you pull the jug take 10 minutes to do a pressure test. in this case you found an intake boot but ive been bit by this. throw a jug kit on only to find bad crank seals or a crankcase gasket bad now you've wasted more than the 10 minute test.
That is an early 441, not an M-tronic. Examining the intake is next to impossible, it is buried. Dony, I am a fan of yours and have learned a ton from you. Did you pressure/vac test the saw before you tore it down? Btw, those who think that you could buy that saw rebuilt for $200, think again, the core has value, the parts will cost near 200 and then you have labor costs. Looking at 500-600 at least.
Shop labor rates are a killer. Chainsaws are not difficult to work on, so for the DIYers, rebuilding a chainsaw is a great way to save a ton of cash. If the owner has no mechanical skills nor the time, nor simply it isn't his thing, then pay BIG.
Hi Donyboy73 I have a Stihl 028 Wood boss that I am having an issue with it I rebuilt and cleaned the carburetor the saw starts up great and idles great but when you go to throttle it up it is very rich but if you press the trigger rapidly it will take right off and run fine then let it idle then it will be rich again ? What would cause this issue? Thank you for the video.
Before doing anything to my saws, I blow it off with a blowgun to remove all the dust, mud oily shite and woodchips, makes a far better start as nothing is worse than messy engines and it gets into everything.
The ms 441 is a medium size saw. If the bar and chain are part of the deal the saw could be worth $40...as a parts saw. Never borrow out your equipment, fellas. Unless the borrower is putting down a deposit of the true value of the tool.
@@DS-kn4bs complaints? from what ive read it was the complete opposite? i almost went with the 550xp because it had so many good reviews. but instead i choosed echo to give it a try and i was impressed!
@@DS-kn4bs make sure to use non-ethanol fuel. you will see, in one or 2 years from now it will require a carb rebuild or replacement. it will become very hard to start in the near future. i had 3 and one was a smaller 291 and it came from factory with a carburator issue...
I bought a Craftsman Snow Shreader 250cc single stage Blown Engine $250 bucks tried to Hone and Reuse Parts ie Piston , rings Connecting rod and Crank - Lasted 30mins before Smoking !!! Put NEW BLOCK, ROD , PISTON < NEW RINGS and NEW CRANK cost $ 800 Bucks !!! LEARNING Experience !!! Cheaper to just put in a NEW CHINA PRINCES AUTO ENGINE
Usually Tractor Supply, Fleet Farm, Farm and Fleet, Northern Tool, ACE hardware...sell premixed fuel for about $10-20 in a can. That usually has a pretty decent shelf life. Usually wound in 50 and 40:1 mixtures.
Great video as always Don. Was wondering if you have any Harbor Freight Tools stores in Canada and if so, have you ever worked on any Predator engines from Harbor Freight? These engines are growing fast in popularity and would like to see you do some repair videos on them. Thanks!
Don , what is that "Crack" slightly diagonal ( in the inner - outer casing) near the rod and piston in the video? great prevention video ! :) thank you .
@@RaoulThomas007 yes . I have never torn my stihls down . So using auto engine brain. I thought the block on the saw was cracked. That was my question . Thank you .
I just had the same light scoring/compression loss problem on husqvarna 372 depicted in your video. my leak was on filter connection right in front of carburetor. I diagnosed it as saw running on debris in air. was i right? would it be possible in your opinion?
Last week, changed the oil of my John Deere L100 w/17.5 B&S, used Castro blend 10w30. Also changed oil filter. Grandson cut grass, motor knocked, then seized. Could it be the synthetic blend?
Hey do you have a video that explains why an engine ( 7horse ) idled up and down when in use? My troybuilt horse is almost stalling when tilling it seems to do it most when I turn around or back up. I'm thinking carb.
@@ryy597 I might have a clogged vent in the carb but I'm afraid to take it off before I'm done with lol. I need my garden enlarged. Last year there was too much rain so I couldn't till until late may.
Old fuel, and carburetor probably needs cleaned out, replaced, or rebuilt. My old Troy Bilt Horse tiller needs a carburetor rebuild, but I found a replacement carburetor for $20 so I am going that route but keeping the old one to rebuild it and have it ready to go. The garbage fuel we are forced to use now really isn't carburetor friendly.
@@wildbill23c I bought high octane ethanol free gas. The guy I bought it off used ethanol free aswell. Donny just did a video a little while ago on cleaning the port on a carb. Guess I'll take a look at that first. Thanks
Hello Donyboy, I have tried several other channels about the following question, and pretty much the majority of replies don't agree with my assumption, so I thought I'd ask for yours now. Pardon me for my question not having much to do with this video, though I guess it could be my problem. I have a 6.75 HP Craftsmen B&S gold mower that starts but sounds like it's puttering on low throttle, even though I have no throttle other than the governor spring. It was running fine one day, then the next day the puttering started. I checked the carb, fuel line, spark plug, air filter, and even the flywheel key, and they all seem to be clean and okay. I saw another video talking about the coil and where it should be resistance-wise, a level between 2.5 and 5.0. I checked mine out, and it reads 6.5. My question is this, would a reading above the normal levels cause performance problems? Like I said, mine starts, but it obviously isn't running like it should. No one I've asked seems to have ever heard of this causing a problem other than starting issues. Thanks.
Hello donyboy73, greetings from Scotland in the UK!! A two year old video from you which i found very interesting! At 4.36 time on video, you mentioned the lower bolts, and i am wondering, do you know the correct torque settings for these bolts?--(from the top bolts to the bottom presumably, and what type of torque wrench would i need?)--Are they the same in ALL chainsaw's or are they unique to Stihl? Thank you for looking at my question, i'm a massive fan, upticked and subbed!! Thank you, Mikky from Scotland, UK!
Hi. Why is there on my cylinder walls of my husqvarna 545rx some markings (which are just visual, cant feel anything with my nail) and the piston is perfect, spotless? Is that a sign of normal ware? The compression is still very strong. Cheers from Romania.
I have a jonsered cs2188 chainsaw I replaced the crankshaft I put the saw back together I started it but it won't stay running I would like to know if the carburetor needs to be rebuilt because it sat around sence last summer there was no gas left in the fuel tank
diaphram most likely dried up and hardened. some people say that its good to drain the machine out of gaz before storing but i highly disagree. if you want to sell the saw id buy it lol
but what i don't understand is that you were able to split the cases and press in new bearings and all but you don't know your way around a carb? they are really easy to work with!
@@archierockey if you want i can help you find the problem? if you installed everything correctly and have the right gap between the coil and flywheel i suspect that the carburator is your problem?
I have a question for all the knowledgeable people here. I just picked up a sears and Roebuck top handled chainsaw model # 358.350911. I have searched high and low for an owner/repair manual for this thing with no luck. I have done some troubleshooting on it. The fuel lines are toasted. It has no fire. And it has 60psi. I can’t find any specs on it. I did remove the muffler, and didn’t see any scoring on the piston. Just looking for a little help as far as specs and parts. Thank you.
So I'll throw in a different experience. I used to buy that to be sure I was getting good fuel and oil, but always had lots of trouble with my two-cycle equipment. Everything was much easier to start and keep running well once I started to mix my own. So if you're having issues and you're using that stuff, might be worth trying mixing your own (at least if you can buy ethanol free gas to mix)
Dony has good video about Trufuel. Especially good for homeowners. Excellent for storing outdoor equipment. Trimmers, saws, snowblowers too. Trufuel makes 4 cycle as well. Your carbs will thank you.
Well even if it costs half of a new one that’s $350.00 in my pocket, so put the new parts in it.(please) but since I am able to do the work myself it would be more like one quarter the price. Plus I just hate the disposable mentality theses days! Get back to making quality products and selling parts to fix them with. Please don’t take offense sir ,it was a great video.👍 (just needed to rant a bit)
I hone the cylinders (if they are not too bad), you are suggesting people don't repair their saws!, wonder if that's because you quote them shop time to fix it. If they were up to it then they could repair that saw themselves.
Thats just it. Those guys do not know how to repair them. In this day and age its called throw it out and buy a new one. The industry makes them to not last eather. As he stated, you cannot hone a cylinder. The whole head needs to be replaced. Do the math. The repair shop has to charge for their work. If you can fix it yourself, more power to you.
I mix 40:1 with a very high quality low smoke full synthetic 2-stroke oil (Motul 710) and use small engine gasoline (alkylate). 50:1 is too little and 30:1 is too much. I don't use racing oil since they are not low smoke and will cause carbon deposits, me thinks. They are VERY expensive as well. Don't use 2-stroke oils inended for outboards or snowmobiles.
The only fuel were I live without ethanol in the fuel is 87 fuel. If there’s a 98 fuel here I haven’t seen it, also don’t I took my moms 14.5hp riding mower engine apart cause the compression release broke, yes it’s Briggs engine, but is it ok not to use the gasket n use high temp sealant. Had to order the whole cam. It arriving today so I can put it back together.
You can fix the cylinders by cleaning the aluminum off with hydrochloric acid. The cylinder isn’t scored, it has aluminum from the piston welded to it. This happens quite a bit from improperly sharpened chains. A chain needs sharpening every single tank of gas at a minimum. If working in dirty wood, it needs additional sharpening.
good tip to have a bit extra oil in the gas , to get a bit more lubrication on the piston, because chainsaw dont have separate oil tank like four stroke motor, like snowblower
@@dontcare3430 OK. Your name suits you. Adding too much oil to the mix makes the engine run lean, with less power, and make nearly 1.5 times the heat, so lucky you that you found some gem of a chainsaw that can stand up to your abuse.
@@canamrider7195 yes they are! i checked and you can get a rebuild kit for 120$ shipped. add a boot and a carb rebuild kit and you've got a brand new 441 for less then 200$. these model are fairly new. the came after the "0" series saw. parts a still available and easy to find
@@ryy597 And considering Donny already has it apart, the obvious next step it to spend the $200, and have a 70cc class saw up and running again, and likely for many many years.
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Used to be a wrench at a Stihl dealer. Customer brought in a MS290 with a severely scored cylinder. Saw was only about a month old at the time. He lent it to someone and they ran straight gas in it and cooked it. Stihl wouldn't cover under warranty because of the straight gas. Cost of repair was high enough that customer bought a new saw. He didn't want his old saw so it sat under my workbench for quite a while. Service manager dropped of a box full of parts on my bench one day with no work order. He said it was for the saw under my bench. It was mine if I wanted it. New top end, new crank bearings and seals and a carb kit. Still have that saw today, 12 years later. Still runs like a top. Did buy a case for it though.
I have worked in the woods for some time and repaired saws. I find from my experience the cause for the intake boots getting torn like that is from 1st yes they get brittle from time, but the biggest culprit for failure is this, saw gets bar pinched in the wood being cut and the operator yanks too hard on the handle over stretching the vibration mounts and damages the boot.
Thanks for sharing! i find your comment valuable
You're welcome !
Great tip!
Yes, good tip thanks
Correct never pull on the saw or it WILL screw up
I have the same problem in my concrete saw, normally when I have to repair something by myself I have to watch tons of videos and read millions of articles to reach the best possible conclusion, your video was the first one I saw and you literally solved all my doubts, keep the channel forever, thank you for your time.
Great job Dony! Started a small engine shop from home barn! You have taught me a ton! Saying thanks from Central Indiana! Send that 441 down here. I would slap an AM kit in it, rebuilt multiple 290s with a couple hundred hours on each!
Bring er back to life Hatter's Lawncare
The MS441 is a great. Bought a lightly used one last year. Never used it until recently after a storm came in and knocked down a few trees. Powerful saw
It makes sense because in a 2 stroke engine, the lubrication comes from the fuel. If you're not getting enough fuel that has adequate lubrication, the engine will be starved of fuel and lube. It can cause overheating and excess friction leading to engine damage from insufficient lubrication. A 2 stroke tends to rev higher when adjusted too lean or not enough oil in fuel. Either one of these conditions would eventually lead to damaging the engine. This is quite a bit coming from someone who doesn't work on small engines on a daily basis like you do. However, I have gained knowledge from people on UA-cam and have experienced it too. I have always been interested in this kind of stuff. I always learn from these videos.
What great videos you produce. Plan and simple to understand. Thank you.
I checked my intake boot for leaking by wrapping plastic tape around a 15 mm copper pipe in a taper-spiral so that it would fit into the carb intake, and then blew into it with the piston up.
Thanks for all the great tips you have given me over the years, merci beau-coup!
My 441 boot cracked too with very few hours but cought it as soon as it started running lean. I think it was a combination of very cold weather and pulling too hard on the handle after getting it stuck in a tree. A very powerful saw though.
I’ve always mixed my fuel 40:1 if the machine calls for 50:1 and I also tune the carb slightly rich. Looking in the muffler the engines I have still looks brand new many years later
Same here, a little extra oil is only going to help.
The one person who gave this a thumbs down must have thought Donyboy was gonna put a new piston and cylinder in this saw. Good work as usual Don☺!
probably the same guy who took that saw to him to fix lol
I like the 45 to 1 gas oil ratio. These motors need the extra lubrication. I'm going to start this practice going forward. PS: Watched your boot repair on MS192tc. Just got a used one and totally rebuilt it thanks to your videos. Look forward to weekly Friday videos. Keep em coming.
the govt may not like 45-1 but what do then know?
Many thanks for taking the time to put together another great video. 😎👍🇨🇦
Thanks, Dony -- good info! I had to rebuild my Husqvana saw last year because of the same problem.
Great piece of information Donny Boy.
The first thing I thought, was grabbing the wrong gas can, and putting straight gasoline in it, instead of 2-cycle mix. I've never seen an intake boot like that. All my saws have fuel/air mixture screws, and I just adjust those, to make sure the mixture is right. Too rich, fouls spark plugs, and causes hit and miss running. Too lean, it just doesn't have the power, and, I don't allow that for just the reasons shown in this video. The fuel is the lubricant.
I had to rekit the carby on my brothers Honda GX25 4 stroke line trimmer, it was very hard to start & ran lean so I bought a $5 AUD carby kit & fitted it,now it runs like a beauty.
The fuel pump diaphragm & the diaphragm for the needle was all stiff & dried up.
I've bought parts to rebuilt my fathers 16 year old Honda GSV190 engine as it smokes up when cold,so far,I've ordered the piston rings but realized that I need to order the later model piston to suit the 014 rings.
It's cheaper to order the new piston as well than the older 004 rings which are no longer available from Honda,I just need to order all of the seals & piston to fix it up.
I'm ordering the parts from the U.S. because they seem to be able to do a better deal even than what they can on eBay.
Very timely video. Time for me to do a good spring check-up. Thanks Dony.
Great video, thanks for the preventative maintenance info, much appreciated!
great tips, excellent photography & good edits!
Good one, you had me fooled! I was guessing it was the old "carbon buildup in the exhaust port" one! (Now I'm nervous my two cycle equipment is running lean without me realizing, but then I remember the spark plugs look rich if anything...)
If you're going to miss on the fuel/air mix, better rich than lean. Sparkplugs are much less expensive, than pistons, rings and cylinders!
Great advice. Thank you
THIS IS AN EYE OPENER
Another great video, Donny. Have not seen one of yours in a while but yours are really good.
Superb video. Thanks!
Totally rebuilt my 044, used a big bore over sized kit (aftermarket), ran great until the crankshaft broke when I hit a nail that was inside an old tree. I told a few people that the crankshaft broke and I had to show them because they didn’t believe me, China junk metal failed and I’ll never buy anything but OEM ever again.
Thanks your videos are so clear 👍👌👏
I know you'll put a piston cylinder kit in this for around $50. It's too awesome not to keep for yourself.
All good advice Donny, thanks
Thanks Donyboy great video as usual.
Always great tips!
In hindsight I would have liked to see where that intake boot is located on the chain saw. Splendid video none the less. Thank you DB73 for all your fine work here. Cheers my Friend !!.
vetterfellow intake boot is between the carb and the cylinder.
Good video Donny!!! I would love to show people this, that bring their saws in a total wreck with 3 year old gas in it, plugged air filter and super dull chain.....and they don't have a clue about what's wrong...
That's why I run 16.1 mix in my older saws..40.1 on my new ones they need that oil to keep them cool if the boots or seals sucking air..
@@YoungOzzy432 ya
Just use 50:1. Any more oil than that will damage the saw sooner or later. Adding more oil leans out the mixture and makes the equient run way hotter.
@@ralphnapierii1184 old ones need a pint to gallon ..i kee p blowing up old ez homlites .took me 3 of them to stop being stubborn. Oils the same as it was then because I collect old oil bottles and read them
@@jacoblang2712 you are not correct. Modern synthetic oils are meant to be used at 50:1.
@@ralphnapierii1184 I won't use synthetic oil ,its two watery my oil truck got hot with no oil pressure when I tried to use it.garbage,dumped it out soon as I could and put normal oil back
Hi Dony, great vid, that saw is toast!
Yup, just buy anew one guys,! 👏🏻👏🏻🇬🇧🇬🇧
Happy spring Don.
says: 50 to 1 i make/use 40 to 1
no spark plug fouling troubles
I’ve always ran my equipment with a bit more oil for added insurance against it blowing up, running it hard and hot seems to stop any carbon issues even with some of my machines running 32:1
A lot of people spread the myth that putting too much oil can create fouling or leanness, but here's the truth:
At 50:1, the gas represents 50/51'ths of the mix, or 98.03% of the mix is gas.
At 40:1 the gas represents 40/41 or 97.56% of the mix
A 0.53% difference in the amount of gas in the mix will not make much difference in terms of leaness. The critical factor in leaness is the "air to mix" ratio - not the "oil to gas" ratio. This has to change by ~5% or more to make a significant difference.
25:1 means gas is 25/26 or 96% is gas
Now look at what else varies the air to fuel mix ratio. The total amount of air getting into the cylinder is influence by the atmospheric pressure which can commonly vary between 1000 to 1020 mb over a few days. This change represents a 2% change in air pressure and means the saw will get ~2% more oxygen at 1020 than 1000 mb.
Does anyone operating at the same elevation read the atmospheric pressure and then retune? - of course not, a stock saw can tolerate at least a +/- 2.5% change in air pressure which corresponds to shifting the mix down from 50:1 to about 25:1.
@@em4703 33:1 is ok ?
That is why you do a vac and pressure test and if it is a m tonic saw it might be worth fixing it is a 1000 saw
Used to be a wrench at a Stihl dealer. The vac/pressure test is awesome for finding the problem on the ones that just wont run right.
I am a stihl mechanic you should do a video on a ms194 the pom prons getting under the recoil cover have them take the cover off to clean it or thay will over heat the saw
Someone bring this Stihl back to life!
its an expensive one to throw it in the trash....
If you cant afford to buy new, take some emery cloth or a pocket knife to remove melted aluminum from cylinder. Sometimes you can doctor up the piston if its not too bad.takes some time and labor.Of course new is allways better.
Baileys online logging supply sales a good aftermarket piston and cylinder kit,but often times you can clean the aluminum transfer out of the cylinder wall and use a good meteor piston with caber ring and only spend $50. A new oem piston and cylinder will run you $399,and is also a good option.
Thank you Thank you. You are the man.
I had no idea, thanks for the tip.
I use the Amsoil Saber oil and you can mix that as I do at 100:1. Haven't had a problem.
Its been caused by intake boot damage/leakage saw was running too lean. it wasn't been oil fail...
From someone who has never used it. I spoke to Shell before becoming a dealer about the oil. Shell said, it is far superior to anything on the market today, including anything we put out. That is their words, not mine. I spoke with the Shell Answer man who has a column in a truck magazine every month, you can ask him anything about oil or lubrication and he will give you the answers in detail.
Bought my first chainsaw. It's a MS 291 with a can of premix fuel. Just can wait to fire it up soon.
have fun with your new toy!! be safe hope ya bought some chaps too.
The premix fuel is better, if you use the saw only from time to time. I use also premix fuel for my 026 and 460.
Have a lot of fun with your saw!
How's she goin'? Great info Dony!! Now I'm heading to the shop to check my saw!!! Take care!!
45:1 or 50:1 is not making much of a difference, it's pretty much the same amount and in the user error variable. Most people mix at 45-55:1 since they don't measure perfectly. Trying to mix 32:1 or 40:1 does make a difference though, especially with modern synthetic oils that don't smoke.
What I love is when the owner doesnt like the answer then trys to pawn the job off on another guy. He says he took it to Joe blow and they said blah blah( usually half truths) and dont know why they wouldnt fix it. Then they try to get you to commit to being able to produce a miracle and magically get it to run again. Even though the engine is clearly toast. I had a guy pull that on me with a riding lawn mower. I told him no promises and Let me look it over. Afer doing a compression test and checking the cylinder heads, I discovered it was run dry. The damage was both top end and bottom end. He told me the other shop told him it could be fixed but he only gave me part of the story. I told him the crank bearings were bad too( I could hear the piston slop in the bottom end) The top end was wiped on both cylinders. I could see metal transfer on the cylinder walls. I also noticed it had a bad oil leak by the build up of crud around the base of the engine. I told him I could get another engine for it but I wasnt going to rebuild that engine. He ended up scrapping the mower.
yes happens all the time, then they expect a warranty lol
@@donyboy73 Yup! I tell them its warrantied to the end of the driveway. lol. I quit doing warrenty on snowmobiles when a customer went and ragged on a fresh rebuild after I told him not to. He didnt blow it up or anything but thats just bull. Every manufacturer has a break in period on an engine and even aftermarket has break in on their parts. I was using Wisco Pistons and new cylinder sleeves. I NEVER just rebuild on side eather. I had a customer try and tell me it made no difference. I told him he could take it to someone else then. Both cylinders were pretty much gone. One had a hole through the piston caused by an over lean condition. He decided to let me do the job after I stood my ground. Now everytime I see him he brags about how great that snowmobile is. Thats because I did it correctly and wouldnt budge. Spring is comming buddy! I already have a line of lawn mowers to fix and sell. Take it easy!
I would fix this saw fore sure got a 441 c myself that I ran for a few years logging until the coil broke, planning a big bore kit after market coil and thinking about swapping for a non m tronic set up may e even do a Reed valve build or might just go back stock but certainly not junkies it, it's a dang good saw
Great videos always
problem is how much of the crap from the piston and jug got to the bearings??? also before you pull the jug take 10 minutes to do a pressure test. in this case you found an intake boot but ive been bit by this. throw a jug kit on only to find bad crank seals or a crankcase gasket bad now you've wasted more than the 10 minute test.
amsoil saber. love that stuff.
That is an early 441, not an M-tronic. Examining the intake is next to impossible, it is buried. Dony, I am a fan of yours and have learned a ton from you. Did you pressure/vac test the saw before you tore it down? Btw, those who think that you could buy that saw rebuilt for $200, think again, the core has value, the parts will cost near 200 and then you have labor costs. Looking at 500-600 at least.
Shop labor rates are a killer. Chainsaws are not difficult to work on, so for the DIYers, rebuilding a chainsaw is a great way to save a ton of cash. If the owner has no mechanical skills nor the time, nor simply it isn't his thing, then pay BIG.
That saws pooched good vid don 👍
Thanks Donyboy.
Hi Donyboy73 I have a Stihl 028 Wood boss that I am having an issue with it I rebuilt and cleaned the carburetor the saw starts up great and idles great but when you go to throttle it up it is very rich but if you press the trigger rapidly it will take right off and run fine then let it idle then it will be rich again ? What would cause this issue? Thank you for the video.
Great tips.
Before doing anything to my saws, I blow it off with a blowgun to remove all the dust, mud oily shite and woodchips, makes a far better start as nothing is worse than messy engines and it gets into everything.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Can you please recommend an online source for me to get a cylinder kit for my ms461? Thanks.
try www.discountonlineparts.com
@@donyboy73Based on your video, I check with them before but they don't carry it. I was wandering if you knew of a different source.
@@sarape27 Maybe huztl on ebay
@@donyboy73 Thanks a lot. I'll check them out.
Thanks for the excellent Information!
What would a damaged saw like that one be worth, if anything?
Just good for a paper weight or cup holder.
The ms 441 is a medium size saw. If the bar and chain are part of the deal the saw could be worth $40...as a parts saw. Never borrow out your equipment, fellas. Unless the borrower is putting down a deposit of the true value of the tool.
Hey dony have you done a video on installing an arctic kit on a 044
Finally bought my Stihl ms 251 😁
should've went with another brand. hello to carburator and fuel issues...
@@ryy597 all reviews were good. I was thinking about the husqvarna but it had to many complaints.
@@DS-kn4bs complaints? from what ive read it was the complete opposite? i almost went with the 550xp because it had so many good reviews. but instead i choosed echo to give it a try and i was impressed!
Well I'm very impressed with my stihl. Already cut down a bunch of small trees on my property and got lots more to go.
@@DS-kn4bs make sure to use non-ethanol fuel. you will see, in one or 2 years from now it will require a carb rebuild or replacement. it will become very hard to start in the near future. i had 3 and one was a smaller 291 and it came from factory with a carburator issue...
I bought a Craftsman Snow Shreader 250cc single stage Blown Engine $250 bucks
tried to Hone and Reuse Parts ie Piston , rings Connecting rod and Crank - Lasted 30mins before Smoking !!!
Put NEW BLOCK, ROD , PISTON < NEW RINGS and NEW CRANK cost $ 800 Bucks !!!
LEARNING Experience !!!
Cheaper to just put in a NEW CHINA PRINCES AUTO ENGINE
Our gasoline is so screwed up in the u.s.a. it can go bad in 30 days! Fuel stabilizer is critical.
True with ethanol fuel. Ethanol free fuel can last much longer.
@@canamrider7195 isnt always that easy to find. its becoming scarce.
Billy Darley It’s actually becoming more common in my area. Even the local Walmart (Murphy) gas station carries it. Any marina will have it too.
@@fivespeed3026 wish it was that way in my town.
Usually Tractor Supply, Fleet Farm, Farm and Fleet, Northern Tool, ACE hardware...sell premixed fuel for about $10-20 in a can. That usually has a pretty decent shelf life. Usually wound in 50 and 40:1 mixtures.
Great video as always Don. Was wondering if you have any Harbor Freight Tools stores in Canada and if so, have you ever worked on any Predator engines from Harbor Freight? These engines are growing fast in popularity and would like to see you do some repair videos on them. Thanks!
In Canada, Princess Auto would be the closest equivalent to Harbor Freight .
I borrowed a saw stihl 381 and my oil mixture was lacking can I loosen the rings please help, the head is fine just the rings fused
Don , what is that "Crack" slightly diagonal ( in the inner - outer casing) near the rod and piston in the video? great prevention video ! :) thank you .
william savage The crack at 1:08 ?
@@RaoulThomas007 yes . I have never torn my stihls down . So using auto engine brain. I thought the block on the saw was cracked. That was my question . Thank you .
I just had the same light scoring/compression loss problem on husqvarna 372 depicted in your video. my leak was on filter connection right in front of carburetor. I diagnosed it as saw running on debris in air. was i right? would it be possible in your opinion?
Last week, changed the oil of my John Deere L100 w/17.5 B&S, used Castro blend 10w30.
Also changed oil filter. Grandson cut grass, motor knocked, then seized. Could it be the synthetic blend?
Hey do you have a video that explains why an engine ( 7horse ) idled up and down when in use?
My troybuilt horse is almost stalling when tilling it seems to do it most when I turn around or back up.
I'm thinking carb.
surging problem? clogged jet in the carburator?
@@ryy597 I might have a clogged vent in the carb but I'm afraid to take it off before I'm done with lol. I need my garden enlarged. Last year there was too much rain so I couldn't till until late may.
Old fuel, and carburetor probably needs cleaned out, replaced, or rebuilt. My old Troy Bilt Horse tiller needs a carburetor rebuild, but I found a replacement carburetor for $20 so I am going that route but keeping the old one to rebuild it and have it ready to go. The garbage fuel we are forced to use now really isn't carburetor friendly.
@@wildbill23c I bought high octane ethanol free gas. The guy I bought it off used ethanol free aswell. Donny just did a video a little while ago on cleaning the port on a carb. Guess I'll take a look at that first. Thanks
Hello Donyboy, I have tried several other channels about the following question, and pretty much the majority of replies don't agree with my assumption, so I thought I'd ask for yours now. Pardon me for my question not having much to do with this video, though I guess it could be my problem. I have a 6.75 HP Craftsmen B&S gold mower that starts but sounds like it's puttering on low throttle, even though I have no throttle other than the governor spring. It was running fine one day, then the next day the puttering started. I checked the carb, fuel line, spark plug, air filter, and even the flywheel key, and they all seem to be clean and okay. I saw another video talking about the coil and where it should be resistance-wise, a level between 2.5 and 5.0. I checked mine out, and it reads 6.5. My question is this, would a reading above the normal levels cause performance problems? Like I said, mine starts, but it obviously isn't running like it should. No one I've asked seems to have ever heard of this causing a problem other than starting issues. Thanks.
How to tell if running lean though?
Don would you recommend OME carbarator or after market for a rebuild?
i always use the oem carb kit when rebuilding a carburetor
Hello donyboy73, greetings from Scotland in the UK!! A two year old video from you which i found very interesting! At 4.36 time on video, you mentioned the lower bolts, and i am wondering, do you know the correct torque settings for these bolts?--(from the top bolts to the bottom presumably, and what type of torque wrench would i need?)--Are they the same in ALL chainsaw's or are they unique to Stihl? Thank you for looking at my question, i'm a massive fan, upticked and subbed!! Thank you, Mikky from Scotland, UK!
Do people repair their stuffs or do they just buy new one's?
I bought a mantis tiller for 20 bucks the other day. Took the muffler off and the piston was worse than this one.
Hi, nonethanol fuel mentioned towards the end is hard to obtain. do you know of any alternatives, or additives?
stihl MOTOMIX OR Trufuel is an alternative
What would the cost be to do this to a ms 261
Hi.
Why is there on my cylinder walls of my husqvarna 545rx some markings (which are just visual, cant feel anything with my nail) and the piston is perfect, spotless? Is that a sign of normal ware?
The compression is still very strong.
Cheers from Romania.
Probably just some carbon scored the cylinder
So what was the cause of this? Improper gas/oil mix. What about the boot crack. Did that suck in dirt and be the cause since intake side was scored?
Boot crack caused an excessively lean mixture. Normally this can be sensed by the owner when running and fixed before damage is done.
I have a jonsered cs2188 chainsaw I replaced the crankshaft I put the saw back together I started it but it won't stay running I would like to know if the carburetor needs to be rebuilt because it sat around sence last summer there was no gas left in the fuel tank
diaphram most likely dried up and hardened. some people say that its good to drain the machine out of gaz before storing but i highly disagree. if you want to sell the saw id buy it lol
but what i don't understand is that you were able to split the cases and press in new bearings and all but you don't know your way around a carb? they are really easy to work with!
@@ryy597 thanks for the information the saw is not for sale
@@archierockey if you want i can help you find the problem? if you installed everything correctly and have the right gap between the coil and flywheel i suspect that the carburator is your problem?
Could we do a video on changing my head gasket on a Honda Odessey minivan???
I have a question for all the knowledgeable people here. I just picked up a sears and Roebuck top handled chainsaw model # 358.350911. I have searched high and low for an owner/repair manual for this thing with no luck. I have done some troubleshooting on it. The fuel lines are toasted. It has no fire. And it has 60psi. I can’t find any specs on it. I did remove the muffler, and didn’t see any scoring on the piston. Just looking for a little help as far as specs and parts. Thank you.
jason hopper
I will bet your Sears saw was a Poulin. Look for the same HP cc etc for Poulin and I’ll bet you will find a match.
JoeB
Is this 441 a M-Tronic or non
M-Tronic ?
Hey Donyboy..what do you think about tru - fuel ??
it's good
AMAZING how my equipment starts & works with this high $$ stuff
@@REVNUMANEWBERNIt should for the price lol, have a good weekend Numa!
So I'll throw in a different experience. I used to buy that to be sure I was getting good fuel and oil, but always had lots of trouble with my two-cycle equipment. Everything was much easier to start and keep running well once I started to mix my own. So if you're having issues and you're using that stuff, might be worth trying mixing your own (at least if you can buy ethanol free gas to mix)
Dony has good video about Trufuel. Especially good for homeowners. Excellent for storing outdoor equipment. Trimmers, saws, snowblowers too. Trufuel makes 4 cycle as well. Your carbs will thank you.
Buy the premix gas in cans it has no ethanol.
Well even if it costs half of a new one that’s $350.00 in my pocket, so put the new parts in it.(please) but since I am able to do the work myself it would be more like one quarter the price. Plus I just hate the disposable mentality theses days! Get back to making quality products and selling parts to fix them with. Please don’t take offense sir ,it was a great video.👍 (just needed to rant a bit)
I hone the cylinders (if they are not too bad), you are suggesting people don't repair their saws!, wonder if that's because you quote them shop time to fix it. If they were up to it then they could repair that saw themselves.
Thats just it. Those guys do not know how to repair them. In this day and age its called throw it out and buy a new one. The industry makes them to not last eather. As he stated, you cannot hone a cylinder. The whole head needs to be replaced. Do the math. The repair shop has to charge for their work. If you can fix it yourself, more power to you.
I mix 40:1 with a very high quality low smoke full synthetic 2-stroke oil (Motul 710) and use small engine gasoline (alkylate). 50:1 is too little and 30:1 is too much. I don't use racing oil since they are not low smoke and will cause carbon deposits, me thinks. They are VERY expensive as well. Don't use 2-stroke oils inended for outboards or snowmobiles.
Don can you please help me I have a tractor that clicks when your turn the key but when you put jumper cables it starts help please
sounds like a battery issue. recharge or replace.
Warm up engine before go full throtttle
Wouldn't catch me lending my MS 441C to anybody. It's my baby.
The only fuel were I live without ethanol in the fuel is 87 fuel. If there’s a 98 fuel here I haven’t seen it, also don’t I took my moms 14.5hp riding mower engine apart cause the compression release broke, yes it’s Briggs engine, but is it ok not to use the gasket n use high temp sealant. Had to order the whole cam. It arriving today so I can put it back together.
Thanks
Too bad, an MS 441 is a nice saw!
You can fix the cylinders by cleaning the aluminum off with hydrochloric acid. The cylinder isn’t scored, it has aluminum from the piston welded to it.
This happens quite a bit from improperly sharpened chains. A chain needs sharpening every single tank of gas at a minimum. If working in dirty wood, it needs additional sharpening.
good tip to have a bit extra oil in the gas , to get a bit more lubrication on the piston, because chainsaw dont have separate oil tank like four stroke motor, like snowblower
Double the oil.
Been doing that for years.
No problems.
Just use 50:1. Any more oil than that will damage the saw sooner or later.
@@ralphnapierii1184 seventy cords and still going strong.
Ten years of wood for a fifty dollar saw.
And still running.,.....
Or I have four more saws.
@@dontcare3430 OK. Your name suits you. Adding too much oil to the mix makes the engine run lean, with less power, and make nearly 1.5 times the heat, so lucky you that you found some gem of a chainsaw that can stand up to your abuse.
@@ralphnapierii1184 ?
i use amsoil use 100 to 1 with aviation fuel 100 octane exhaust is white run a ms 661c
Lead crust. I’ve encountered the same thing.
will the owner be rebuilding? its a 1000+ dollar saw. i would go ahead and rebuild it. if you want to sell it id be interested in buying
If After Market parts are available for this saw, the savings can be quite significant and well worth it to rebuild.
@@canamrider7195 yes they are! i checked and you can get a rebuild kit for 120$ shipped. add a boot and a carb rebuild kit and you've got a brand new 441 for less then 200$. these model are fairly new. the came after the "0" series saw. parts a still available and easy to find
@@ryy597 And considering Donny already has it apart, the obvious next step it to spend the $200, and have a 70cc class saw up and running again, and likely for many many years.
@@canamrider7195 exactly its better to pay 200$ and have it fixed then spending another 1000$+ dollars on another new saw.