I've made my feelings clear, but I hope all of you know that it's never my intention to put down anything anyone loves or works so hard on (which I believe this author did), but rather to be honest and informative. So for those that adore this book, let everyone know why you think it's amazing and should be read. Have a lovely day! Pick this book up if you think it sounds interesting!!! :)
I actually like it when you especially have a contradicting opinion to me. Its so much fun to see how different taste can be. I understand all of that but Bug. How could you leave Bug out of the review? I am weeping. Jokes aside, Lies of locke lamora was a favourite but your problems with it made the review even more interesting
The Gray King could actually reference Jean's power and knows that he's dangerous cause Jean frickin fought with BOTH of his sisters AT THE SAME TIME.. and he frickin KILLED THEM
I loved that Locke doesn't do what he's told most of the time, and how he interacted with magic users. Had me laughing out loud, especially after the flashback where we learn how they should be treated. Loved it...
For someone who was faking a lot of things, he was definitely not faking his attitude towards the mage. It was funny but he wouldn't have been in such bad shape had he held his tongue a bit and faked a more submissive attitude.
This exact part of the book is the only thing that's made me actually physically laugh whilst reading any book for as long as I can remember. I loved the wit and humour in it!
If you like Quentin Tarantino films, you should like Locke Lamora. Hilarious dialogue, morally ambiguous but likeable characters, over-the-top violence, nonlinear storytelling. If you don't like that sort of thing, you won't like the book (or series). I think it's brilliant but I can see why it's not for everyone.
@@DecimalD_ Same, I'm a huge Tarantino fan, but I couldn't stand this book, I tried but gave up with just 2 hours left of the audiobook XD I don't find the similarity.
Thank u for your honest review. Sums up my thoughts exactly. Way too many people blindly gushing over this book. It has great elements but definitely not for everyone
Life is strange : I admired all the things that you didn't in this book. I rather liked the dynamic between Locke & Jean, and the interludes were possibly my favourite part of the book. I didn't find the moving back and forth in time jarring at all. The writing style resonated with me ; I literally had to force myself to put the book down at times to stop myself finishing it too quickly. I think with any novel, if you don't like the characters you're on a hiding to nothing, and for whatever reason they just didn't click for you. I'm the same with Fitz, for example, in Robin Hobb's books ... I couldn't give a damn about him. Or most of the characters in Wheel of Time. One thing we can all agree on, though, is Luna is fluffy ... and cute :)
She is fluffy and cute 😄 Haha, it’s funny, isn’t the first Hobb book (the only one I’ve read so far) I didn’t really feel that bad for Fitz, and then with WoT, the characters I did care about I cared for less and less as I read into book four. You’d think this one would’ve been another check for us, but I’m glad it wasn’t and that you enjoyed it!
I can totally understand why someone wouldn't like this book. The reasons you have mentioned are precisely why I love the book so much. If you are someone who isn't getting into the book, please don't be discouraged into not reading it. At least get 200 pages in and if you still don't dig it, by all means put it down. I got back into reading this year because of this book. SPOILERS AHEAD Subjectively, I can totally get why this book didn't work for you. Personally, having recently read the book as well, I think to some extent you misunderstood the ending, especially the stuff with The Gray King. The whole point is that he has been so absorbed by the idea of his revenge that he only seeks to benefit himself and has resolved that no one else's priorities can get in the way, even if it means harming people that have nothing to do with his crusade, that's the main difference between him and Locke, to Locke revenge wasn't for his satisfaction, it was driven more by his promise to his brothers and even after he kills The Gray King, he doesn't revel in the victory at all, he cries like a baby. Also, I don't really get your distaste for the way Locke killed the Gray King. I thought it was a great subversion of expectation. He used the Gray Kings expectations against him, that's how Locke always get by, he coys with people based on their pre existing expectations and uses it against them. If the story had gone the way you suggested, that would have been fun, but really cliche and far less satisfying. To each their own, this was the only point in the review where I raised my eyebrows a bit, but that could also be a result of you not enjoying the book and that's okay.
Spoilers: I just didn’t think the distraction against the King made sense. We’d been told he was an extremely skilled fighter, and him getting distracted the way he did seemed-like the spider getting punched-way too easy of an out. Jean showing up would’ve been cliche, but...I actually feel a lot of things in the book were. The line where Jean says, “Wicked sisters, meet the wicked sisters,” is an example. As for the King wanting revenge, I still feel his plans were just too cartoonish to make him the kind of villain I like. You can be willing to have people struck down who are in your way, but his plans were so over the top that he lost all depth to me. Not a matter of misunderstanding, just matters of preference.
@@ebnovels I can see your point, but in all honesty, I never thought Jean's line was cliche. That was one of the funniest and most badass moments in the book. Also, just because there are cliches earlier in the book doesn't necessarily mean the plot needs to conclude that way. I can totally understand why The Gray King isn't to your liking, sorry I used the word 'misunderstanding', guess it was too strong. But I still feel as if what you suggested would have made the book a little underwhelming. It is nice to see someone with a completely different view than my own. Sometimes, I just need a few more days to collect my thoughts after listening to such a review.
I needed this review. I’m about 150 pages in and the writing style just isn’t hooking me. I’d heard great things about this book and wondered what I was missing but your review suggests that there’s a type of person this book isn’t really for and that’s okay. I may read a little further, but might bail without any guilt. Thank you!
spoilers: The Gray King did got the refrence of Jean because he knew Jean killed his two warrior sisters 1 against 2. So of cource he would be terrified of him especially when Lock has a hold of him.
Elliot Brooks one could tell from the wounds that it was a physical fight. The sisters would never be so careless that they could be surprised or tricked. And the mage determined that it was all Jean‘s blood on their knives.
Thank you! I've been so torn about reading this for the past year. Everyone I've talked to and every video I've watched has said that it is incredible, but I had reservations. Your review is the most detailed I've seen, and we seem to have similar tastes (based on your criticism of the book). I think I'll pass on this one for the time being (which is a relief... there are way too many other fantasy books to read!) PS - I'm glad you are so open to reviewing books that you don't like, and being refreshingly honest about your opinions. Lately I've found it hard to find "negative" reviews for books on UA-cam . It seems like everyone is always gushing about every book they read (the exceptions being you, Daniel, and Merphy). But its cool that you can dislike a book but still be objective and respectful about it. You strike a good balance in your reviews. Keep it up!
Well thank you! It’s so funny what we all tend to find is the case online, cuz recently I’ve been seeing what feels like tons of negative reviews 😆 If you do get around to this book, I hope you really enjoy it 💗
It's got a "Quentin tarantino" or "Boondock Saints" style with the flashbacks and ordering of the plot. The dialogue also has a similar feel as those films. So if you like those films then you should read the book. But if it bothers you, you probably shouldn't.
@@shalonsmith1337 oh man you just hit the nail on the head. I’d been wondering what this book felt like an imitation of, and those were all really popular properties in the mid-2000s that had a try-hard “badassness” that hasn’t aged well.
Oh Finally a review I have been waiting for. I am struggling with Gentlemen Bastard series for years now, glad to see I am not only one! I liked the book, but found it very underwhelming mainly because it is overhyped. It was fine. I also agree with many things said in your review. There is something in those books which turns me down. I still want to finish series one day, but it is a struggle. Not completely without reward, but struggle noneles.
This just seems to be one of those books/series where people love it, and others don't. I fall into the 'loved it' camp (instantly read the next two in the series, and loved those too). I hear, and understand, your critiques of the things you didn't like, or that annoyed you about some of the decisions that the author made. I was so engrossed with the characters, the city and the shenanigans Locke gets involved in, that I didn't really notice any of those things. I thought the audiobook flew by.
I think Scott Lynch has a lot of strengths as a writer. His use of dialogue, character relationships, world building, and his grasp of structure - even if flash-backs aren't your thing - are pretty masterfully pulled off in this book. It takes a lot of skill to write a book this way - and pull it off, the way he did. I do agree with Elliot in that some of the scenes could be cut done significantly, or summed up with more brevity. I did have those page-turning moments where I loathed putting the book down, but there were other moments when reading it felt like a little bit of slog - just because we we're so removed from the plot. I didnt mind it too much; the trade off for the world building was enough for me, because I was as much invested in the world as the plot. It was kind of a win-win. I also loved the passage that mentioned the sports teams. For me it really solified the identity of Cammor, and who these people really are. I thought it was a fantastic way of giving the city a cultural identity. The way a lot of sports teams in real life do - as they are a cultural touch-stone. I enjoyed The Lies of Locke Lamora, and if anything I said or anyone else has said about the book appeals to you - please get a hold of it and give it a shot.
I think the biggest problem of the book is that it makes a promise, and it doesnt deliver on it. The beginning of the book (which is great) promises us a group of somewhat flawed characters who are gonna pull a series of amazing heists, put together by the master planner Locke. I was looking forward to see these plans unfold and get more and more intricate, and to get to know these thief characters better, and maybe meet some new ones. Sadly, the book completely fails in this regard, and goes in a totally different direction. The already short list of important characters gets cut down to 2, and the main conflict(s) aren't resolved by a master-plan coming together, but mostly by improvisation, luck and unlikely wins in combat. The development of two characters we're left with isn't quite so exciting either. Jean felt like a Mary Sue, he has no flaws and his strengths and talents aren't particularly interesting or original either. He was the plump son of merchants, who got a good education and is skilled with numbers and languages, and somehow had the innate talent to be the best fighter of the entire city. His natural talents were nurtured by the best arms-master without issues, he's the unchallenged best fighter ever. He's loyal, he's strong, he's smart. He's the best sidekick ever, with no mystery to him. Locke is a bit more complex and there are a lot of mysteries around him, that are only hinted at in this book, but again, he was introduced as a slender bodied planning genius and the best actor who ever was, yet his only master-plan of the book remains the one introduced in act one, the more important problems he resolved with on-the-fly decision making, skill with the sword and pure luck.
I agree with that. I mentioned the farm stuff, but I also actually wish I could’ve seen Jean learning to fight. I wouldn’t say I’m a fan of training montages, but we sort of were told he went to learn from that person, he talked to that person, and then he was the one saving all of them from gangs.
@Horacio Nelson The twins are supposed to be super-elite, their like the top personal bodyguards of the city's most wanted crime boss, and former champions of the blood-sport which includes dancing above hungry sharks and whatnot. They should be tough opposition 1v1, and unbeatable 2v1 by normal humans. Fantasy books in general underrate how big an advantage 2v1 is, but that's besides the point. Jean used to be a fat kid, that's true, and that didnt hinder him at all in becoming the best fighter. He's described as bulky or something even now, but obviously he's not slowed down by his weight or anything like that. He obviously cant beat a bondsmage, who are the super overpowered characters of the series (to the point which i'd say it's straight up lazy writing how OP they are. The only reason they can defeat one, because that one is acting in a super stupid and careless manner). Being outmatched by a super OP villain doesnt mean he isnt a Mary Sue character, or he isnt one-dimensional. As for Locke's planning, as i said, it's mostly improvisation and luck after the first arc of the story, which is a shame, I was really intrigued at first.
I agreed with most of your thoughts. I thought this book was just OK but I can totally see how it could be people’s favourite book. It’s unique which I think makes it fun but it wasn’t for me personally.
For me this is a case of a book where I understand its flaws but the overarching reason of giving me a blast makes me adore it. I’m actually all in favor of playing with the flow of the story and its rhythm, but that’s a personal preference. Locke and Jean are redux versions of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and it shows, but I overall liked their interaction and arcs. Though I would have preferred (Spoiler) Having more of Bug. The only thing that didn’t convince me was the use of curse words. If felt it would have been more organic if he just invented curse words in camorran.
I think the cursing was interesting because when I would pick up the physical copy, a lot of the cursing was in italics. I guess in my head I already hear people say those words with emphasis? I agree about the other character you mentioned. I would’ve probably been upset by what happened to them if I’d seen them more. Regardless, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
I had the same thought when reading the book, which is why I liked it so much tbh, the Elder Scrolls just doesn't have much in the books category, so it was kinda nice to have one so closely related.....but the differences in setting made it even more interesting. The overarching idea of a "thieves guild" and the deity they worship is really where the similarities end though, the magic system in SL's world is interesting in the fact that only a certain group of people can wield it, which makes them feel that much more dangerous. and in response to Elliot, the Elder Scrolls series (the video game series in which Skyrim belongs) began game releases in the mid 90s.
Thank you so much! I thought I was the only one not really liking the book. Everyone seemed super hyped and recommended it and even though I got used to the interludes, I never really cared for any of the characters. I felt like I didn't get to know them well enough. And because of that, I couldn't really care when bad stuff started happening. I was pretty disappointed to be honest
A big reason that I really enjoyed the book was because I couldn’t predict a lot of things and I can usually predict things easily and so many things were a surprise to me. Also I can understand why you don’t like the characters or you think Locke acts dumb with the mage but Locke has a lot of pride and he thinks he is very cunning so he gets annoyed when he gets outsmarted which makes him irrational. Also this world is quite literally you do what you can to survive so sucks for the other guy that had his life ruined but that’s Camorr and it is what Locke needed to do. Spoiler: The grey king knows how powerful jean was because he single-handedly killed both of his sisters who were veterans in gladiator like combat against very powerful creatures and who had extremely good teamwork, also other of his men could’ve told him about how strong jean was cause the were part of the old group. Good review though I respect your opinions even though I don’t agree with some but I understand your thought process.
This is one series I highly recommend listening to the audio books. I just finished the audio series and it’s now my favorite series. The voice actor absolutely slays it. I cannot wait for the next one to be released in a couple months.
Elliot Brooks I’m sorry! Like you said it’s all subjective :). I’m glad you say that. Because you’re not taking responsibility for people not reading something. It should be read to be sure
I agree with your opinions on this book. I hoped I'd like the series better by the end of the third book, but the style of writing with the flashbacks and whatnot stays the same. So, if you weren't happy with the first book...you won't like the second or third.
I can totally see why people could dislike the book, and I really like how you explained your points. I personally love the book because of Locke. I really like his friendship with Jean and I like other characters too, but I have gotten bored of, not only reading about, but watching main characters in movies and similar that are usually perfect both morally and at what they do. And while I do enjoy characters being really excited when they accomplish something and all, Locke just felt so much more real to me. He does something that's for his own benefit, he takes the money for himself, but he does it because that's what he was raised for and it's something he apparently enjoys doing. And while that might be morally wrong, it makes him feel more like a person who is a part of this world and all its ups and downs. He really wants revenge, but he wants it for his friends/brothers sake and not for himself, and that makes him seem like he actually has emotions and is attached to people around, maybe because he is scared. His life isn't really what he chose himself. He never knew different really, so he clinges to the people close to him because they are what makes him happy at the end of the day. The fact that he wasn't extra happy he made it out and instead mourned for his brothers is something that also touched me, because it shows us how vulnerable he is again, and what his motivation is. So he has his good sides, and bad sides (many more than I mentioned here) and sometimes the good doesn't overpower the bad and he has to learn from his mistakes. It's what draws me to him. Last thing is that I cannot even express with words how happy I am that there has only been mention of him being in love, and the focus of the story is nowhere near a fantasy romance story. I am also a little sick of characters always having relationships from the start or one of the main plots being the relationship developing. This makes me excited to read on, because now I am connected to these characters on a different emotional level, and I am happy to learn about their love interests more than if I did in the first book. I really liked this video, because you had your own opinion on it and you being so precise with your review made me realise what I like about this book. I often read books that I love or hate, but then I can't sort my thoughts out so I need to watch someone else with the opposite opinion so that I could be more aware.
I LOVE the books but also understand your criticism. It‘s very much a personal preference thing. I loved that the story isn‘t told in a linear way but is like a woven fabric. It‘s not that I‘m not frustrated when we leave a scene right before everything happens. I just think that the payoff is worth all the frustration. Same with the characters. They are described as brilliant people but letting them do the most stupid of things or be horrible people at times adds so much dimension in my opinion. And I also just love how vivid Camorr is portrayed. I just loved everything about it. I‘m glad that you gave it a shot and it was really interesting to see it from a different perspective. Edit: please also read my comment below this one. I didn’t put it in this one because of spoilers.
Elliot Brooks it’s just pinned to this one as a subcomment. But I‘ve seen another comment who also made the same point. Thank you very much for paying attention tho :)
Finished your video. I love Locke and Jean's friendship. I loved all of the Gentlemen Bastards. When there were tragedies, I felt pain. When Locke was trying to con bankers into giving him their clothes, I looked at it as a peek into how meticulous his cons are. I was a repair technician for a major phone company and I worked on high end data circuits. The way I repaired the systems was very much like Lock's approach. Try the first thing. If that doesn't work, try the first thing plus the second. If that doesn't work, Try the second thing. Then the second and the third. The the first and the third, and so on. I respect your opinion because you love First Law. Funny that I don't think of this book as grim, dark. Locke is a very complex character, as we learn through the books. It's only hinted at in this one. But the way he was brought into the cemetery gang, and eventually sold to Chains, should tell everyone that there is something different about him. Enough. Enough. I hope you read the other books. I'm going to look now. I listened to them all and love the narrator. I look forward to book four.
@@ebnovels that's ok! I know how hard it is to put a negative review out, especially for a well loved book. So many people get offended and ridiculous. So I just wanted to let you know you're not alone girl! It's ok to not like a book and have different opinions and I wish more people would embrace that!
Hey. I have a question. when you prepare to review a book on UA-cam do you take notes while you are reading the book? do you make sure to read with your eyes when review prepping or have you ever done a review after only listening to an audiobook?
I am very vocal about my love for this series, especially Lies but I also think your criticism was very fair. The style is not gonna be for everyone, I even struggled with some of the flashbacks, I think they're often clever but once or twice I was very taken out of the world and story by them. That being said I've reread this book quite a bit and still love it. I definitely think it has flaws but there's something about a group of inherently not good rogues who care for each other and are witty and loyal that just really gets me, I think I may just love found family narratives a lot, even when the family members are all terrible. My last reread was a while ago ap I can't address too much specifically but the waiter thing has always bugged me. I don't know I struggle to really explain why I love this book so much but I do. I think I just love the idea of one of those spam emails about a Nigerian prince but played out in real life.
Hahahaha, oh my gosh, that last part is hilarious! I’m glad you love it so much. No worries about not being able to pinpoint why-sometimes we just like what we like! 😊
I’m reading it now and it’s been a struggle. English is not my first nor my second language and this book... I don’t know if it’s the story, the writing (I usually read in english, two weeks ago I finished The Blade Itself, I liked it and it was an easy reading) but after more than a week I’m only on page 120 and that’s not a good sign.
I found myself in the exact same situation with the first 150 pages or so, but i kept going because i love Locke and i really recommend you push through, it gets a lot easier once the plot starts to get going and you realise what actually is going on. i just finished it and i totally love it now!
Someone mentioned this below, but without having read the book, it just instantly brought images of Skyrim's Thieves Guild and the worship of Nocturnal to my mind!
The Gray King knew Jean was dangerous because he killed both of his very competent sisters 2v1! I was really bored with Locke trying to get the clothes too lol
I loved this book, but I agree with your criticisms almost completely. I can see why you didn’t enjoy the flashbacks and anecdotes but I always appreciate more worldbuilding and I felt like those cutaways slowed the pace in a refreshing way. There were fewer of them in the last act and I had to read from the cellar being burnt to the end all at once because of pacing. I loved it but I did cause me to stay up reading until 4am.
***SPOILER ALERT!!!!*** I love this book and absolutely connected with all the characters! I literally cried when the Galdo, Calo, and Bug died 😭 The friendship between Locke and Jean is so refreshing! I just want to say that I highly recommend this book.
Michael Page as the audiobook narrator really props up any dull expository moments of LLL. Michael Page is just fantastic throughout all 3 of the released novels. After they leave Camorr the stakes, the trials, the chaos rise even higher. It's great to see more flashbacks from the House of Perelandro and Father Chains, and all the unique and clever worldbuilding from the mind of Lynch. The author has stated he feels book 4 is the proper first book of the Gentlemen Bastard Sequence and books 1-3 are like prequels, history, backstory, and flashbacks. I think The Thorn of Emberlaine may come out this year. Fingers crossed. I need to get back to my favourite Locke & Sabetha soaps. ❤👍
Lies of Locke Lamora is one of my favorite fantasy books, so some of your review was indeed a bit frustrating for me to watch because you were describing and critiquing things that I absolutely loved. Especially your comparison with Princess Bride plus more brutal/serious moments. Because that was spot on and it is actually why I think this book is so amazing. However, even though it might be frustrating to watch an unfavorable review about one of my favorites, I think you articulate the reasons why you personally disliked the book very well and obviously taste and personal preferences differ from reader to reader and there is no right or wrong opinion about a book. The one aspect that I thought was missing in your review was the relationship between Locke and Jean and between all the gentleman bastards. For me this friendship was one of the main reasons why I loved the book so much, and I wonder if that didn't resonate with you as much because you didn't like the characters individually. Just curious.
Hahaha, I’m glad that was a decent comparison 😅 As for the friendships, I actually didn’t feel they were that strong. I didn’t want to touch on that because I don’t know if I had specific reasons. It could be that I didn’t care for the characters, but I think for me it was that I didn’t actually see the characters together that much. Sometimes they’d be together in flashbacks, but even then they weren’t very often.
What I don't like about the series is that at the end of the third book we are at pretty much the exact same point where we were at the end of the first book. Nothing relevant happened for the story in books 2 and 3
Finally someone else who didn’t care for this book! I found Lies to be very meh but continued with the series just to see books 2 and 3 get progressively worse. I would attribute most of my indifference and dislike to not being in love with the Locke/Jean friendship-it just didn’t resonate with me like it seems to with everyone else-and the whole “Locke has a smart moth and doesn’t know when to shut up” thing, that’s kind of done to death and like you said, in the absolute worst situations. He’s supposed to be smart but his actions undermine that.
I agree 100% yet I somehow still enjoyed the book and might consider the next one. My favorite scene in the whole book was Locke and Jean (I think) getting out the window along with the guy who was messing around with the married woman. The "close the window, close the window, close the F'ing window" line had me rolling. I had really high expectations of the book because of all the praise it gets.
Ah! You've read Gentlemen Bastards! My other favorite new series. It's like Oceans Eleven meets Cassanova. I just watched your First Law videos. I'm glad you read these, too. I'm going to watch you now.
I really appreciated the Interludes truly being Interludes because then you could just skip them. I didn’t get trapped in an info dump or any kind of extended backstory because he saved all of that for the interludes. So if you want it, great. It’s there. If not skip it and get back to the main plot. I’m sure others do this, but this was the first book I’ve ever read that was set up this way and I just thought it was a nice touch.
Gah! I do love your reviews. Even if my opinions differ from yours, your reviews always make me want to re-read books I’ve already read. Hmmm. How to fit another read of these books into the ever-growing TBR? Loved the Gentleman Bastard Sequence and definitely want more of this world and these characters.
I have been debating on reading this series but it is a commitment. It is not a complete series and I already have so many series to catch up on or sound more interesting. I have similar opinions of books as you and your opinions on Nevernight made me feel less guilty about DNFing it. Now I have to get back to reading so I can finish The Way of Kings by the end of February! 😁
I'm glad I'm not the only one bothered by the constant back and forth flashbacks. It feels jarring and I'm struggling to keep reading it but so many reviews say the actual story is great so I'm trying to give it a chance. I feel like the issue with the flashback format is that I don't have a chance to observe and feel the character development because I feel like even though it's the same individual, I'm reading two different characters. It reminds me of those heist movies, as well as the episode of Rick and Morty where they try to pull off the greatest heist where you get to a point, and then it shows the flashbacks of how they made it possible.
I finished the book then watched this review, and I feel almost exactly the same way you do about it. Lynch nailed the world building and theme (revenge comes with a cost!), but he fumbled character change and story structure. To Lynch’s credit, his tale was engaging enough for me to stick with it all the way, warts and all, but I agree that Lynch could have been more efficient with his storytelling-possibly by a couple hundred pages. (Spoiler ahead) Toward the end of your review you discussed the Gray King’s reaction to Locke’s mention of Jean. I think the Gray King responded strongly to Jean’s “arrival because Jean killed his sisters, but it wasn’t readily apparent that that he in fact was aware of who did the deed. And you mentioned not liking the characters-I did not overly like them either. I like Dona Salvara and the Spider and Bug. I wish Locke had more of a change or revelation, but he and his crew were fairly one note. Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to learn “How to Lose the Time War.”
I've put this book off for a while because the setting isn't really my thing, but your description sounds like exactly my own writing style. I guess I'll have to read it now.
This is one my favorite series. I always recommend it to others. Just so unpredictable and I actually liked the main character as much as the side characters, which is rare for me. It has a little bit of everything for everyone, except for romance (in the first book anyway). Definitely reading these all again before the fourth one comes out.
I have the audiobook on my phone - PERMANENTLY! I believe Scott Lynch does a fantastic job building characters that the reader cares about and have interesting personalities - from the Thiefmaker to Locke and Jean, through Barsavi and the Gray King (Yes, I actually cared about him). It is possible the subject matter may not appeal to you Elliot. The irony and sarcasm of the characters really makes them who they are. I do believe the story takes itself seriously at times (The Murder Hole Scene) and the scourging of the temple by the Bondsmage / Gray Kings men, but is very heavily contrasted by the tone and nature of Locke's general antics and schemes.
I just recently read the book and I really liked it, I think the story was well done and I wanted to keep reading. Although I have to agree with you, I fell like I didn't connect and cared much for the characters... and when terrible things happened.. I just didn't care much. But overall I think it was quite good and Im looking forward to reading the new books
I’m glad you felt that way! I wasn’t saddened when bad stuff happened, though I was aware those things were awful, so I think we felt similarly about that :)
Thought I was the only one who didn’t like this. I didn’t like the characters, the constant swearing and over-the-top violence just seemed juvenile, and the story devolves into the most generic plot ever. Complete with “bad guy has captured the main character and decides to kill him using an elaborate contraption that will only probably kill him instead of just, I don’t know, stabbing him or something” trope that Austin Powers made fun of twenty years ago. Ooh, the bad guy was wronged by society, and so he wants to get back at society by setting a ticking time bomb that can conveniently be defused in a couple minutes. Definitely the plan of a criminal genius who has been planning this whole thing for years!
I’m going to be really honest, you making the Austin Powers comparison made my day. All the stuff with the sharks made me think of Powers, and I kept doing the pinky to my mouth thing the villain does whenever I’d talk to my hubby about the book. There’s one point in the review where I almost did that hand gesture and then had to stop myself 😆
Dude just because you can't stand violence doesn't make it childish. Hows that even make sense? I'm tired of seeing characters die in books and that's that. In reality the person who killed them would end up soaking up all the dark details. Like how Lynch gives you the details.
I really don't think the main villain was as stupid as you're making him out to be, and I have no idea what elaborate contraption you're talking about that he supposedly tried to use to kill Locke. As far as I recall, in their final encounter it was a straightforward swordfight. Before that, he tried to trick Barsavi into killing Locke which almost worked.
Only thing I remember really disliking was (SPOILERS) the reveal of who the grey King was. When Locke first meets him he gets the impression he'd been in his presence before and for the LONGEST time I thought he must've been either one of the kids he'd supposedly caused the deaths of, or the daughter of that godfather character (I am not attempting to name names. I listened to the audio book so have no idea how to spell them) who he was sooort of engaged to. I was kinda hoping it was her in disguise playing a long con to take over the city and get out of the engagement as an added bonus, a sort of mirror of Locke I supposed. I just felt like her introduction and later scene with her insisting that they'll find away to get out of being married set up far too much for her to simply die off-page. I honestly thought the grey king might have been her until they made their way back to the temple after the horse piss ordeal. The fact that Locke thought he recognised him because he knew his sisters (who I don't even remember ever even traded a word with him. Would have been happier if we'd actually gotten to know them earlier) was really disappointing. And the fact that the reason for their actions was for something the cappa did years previously and mightve been vaguely mentioned (I honestly don't know if it was) earlier in the book was even more disappointing. But other than that I really liked the book. Locke is probably one of my favourite protagonists now.
That moment at around 80% in the book when one of the main characters went to get some clothes. Those are 45 minutes of my life that could have been spent on doing something...fun.
The athlete was also the best friend of the guy that called the game and he killed his friend because of it. I feel like that story showcased the lack of loyalty in camorr which made the bonds with the bastards so much more amazing
Elliot Brooks its possible im digging too deep into it but its my fav book and i love locke and jean so much. I love how you can share your opinion honestly without putting the book down. I for one didnt love mistborn or vin as a protagonist but at least we can agree that kaldin stormblessed and geralt and dandelion are all amazing characters :)
I felt underwhelmed with the GB books because of the praise I had heard of them before reading them. They got my expectations a little high. Many put GB in the same sentence as First Law, and I just can’t say I enjoyed it that much. By the end of the book I appreciated it more because that’s when I got invested in the characters. I really enjoyed the scene of Locke holding the Grey king and how that tied together. When I moved into the later books I enjoyed the series more. I suppose it’s just because I got more invested in the duo as it goes on, and that’s really what the books are, it’s miscast as a fantasy epic imo. That said, I am interested in the nuggets Lynch laid out in this world and he has expanded on it in the later books and I really hope he continues to as the series goes on.
I’m glad you’ve found yourself growing to care for the characters throughout your reading! I agree that this feels quite different to me than First Law. Perhaps more plot emphasis was put into GB, but man is the character development great in First Law 😄
Elliot Brooks and honestly it only gets better after the first trilogy. I’m not giving up on you checking out Best Served Cold, lol. Just yesterday I found a different hardcover than I had seen before for only $6.
You articulated very well the same reasons I did not like this book. I was so excited about it because of all the positive reviews and stars on Goodreads...big disappointment for me.
Love the review, just wanted to point out something at the end. **SPOILERS** It is not true that the Gray King had no reference on how strong Jean was; the Gray King knows it was him who defeated single handedly both his sisters, warriors SO GOOD that they were the last line of defense of the previous Capa, his personal guards.
Finally I feel understood! I'm going into SPOILERS NOW!!! . . I knew I couldn't be the only person who thought that the spider resolution was bad. I even think it's terrible, because, she was supposed to be this super intelligent and sneaky character, and an old lady with experience. Why, oh why would she stay alone in a room with him?! She was so stupid! Same with the bone mage. He was like: I know your last name is not real, but I have your name. And I was like: his name is obviously not real either. Come on, man, you can't be that stupid, you're a super powerful wizard! But no, he was that stupid. I ended up not listening to the last two hours of the audiobook because that kind of thing frustrates me so much! I know the term Mary Sue is badly used most of the time, but I really think at the end Locke was a Mary Sue. Not the whole book, but at the end, because all the villains became stupid suddenly just to make him look clever or funny. It didn't feel earned. He didn't outwitted them, they became fools. That on top of everything else you said. The annyoing interludes (although I enjoyed the ones of them as kids too, I wished we could see more of that), and the long scene about the clothing... It was just frustrating. And it was sad, becuase I wanted to like this book so much, the premise sounded so cool! Ahhhh.... I just needed to say it, because you're the first person I see who share some of my thoughts at least to some degree XD.
I finally finished this book and it doesn't get much better in the last 3/4. The author puts himself into the story as the protagonist, obviously, and he makes the exact same mistakes that his character is accused of; he doesn't think things through. SPOILER ALERT: i f you care... One of my biggest grips about this story (right after the 5 year old master thief) is the mages and the magic system. The entire story hinges on the magic which we get so little explanation of that it might as well be gods walking the world. They can do almost anything until they can't. They are totally unstoppable until the appropriate time for them to make a mistake. The liquid magic system (soft isn't soft enough to describe it) is the pervue of the 'Bonds Magi of Carthane' the only mages in the world. They are all from this one city because they kill anyone who dares to use magic that doesn't join them. They have a total monopoly on magic and so they charge such ridiculous prices for their services that no one can really afford them. Certainly not for long. So... let me get this straight... you have 400+ demigods living togetehr in one city and they can't really do anything with thier awesome powers because no one can afford to pay them and none of them have any ambitions to, I don't know... rule the world? No? No ambition at all? They are content to stay in this one city, wringing their hands and saying 'Bwahahahaha" because they are just so awesome... but they are not gods, they are just like normal people... but they don't seem to have normal motives... and only kings can afford them but they are unstoppable and can do anything they want but then they only take contracts and they have great ethics about protecting the secrets of their clients... lesser beings who give these demigods gold are worth losing your magic over... Hmmm... Does this make sense on any level? No, but the author wanted magic to be cool and powerful and unstoppable and force the plot along. Then you have the bloodsport... shark fighting, which we see kill the first time it is shown to us. The shark wins. Yet two characters that are pivotal to the entire plot did this for 8 years and never made a mistake. They use an alchemical lure called 'The Summons' to make the sharks come from all over and makes the sharks super aggressive so, it isn't even like they could train with little sharks and work up to it... no, it's totally chance... so a pair of twin girls just happen to survive together long enough to be infamous. This is another instance of unrealistic success like a 5 year old master thief. Then you have a whole array of alchmical supplies for disguise but no one really knows that disguise is a serious art or that it could be used to steal? No one expecs disguise to be used to fool people...??? This whole world is chock full of contradictory ideas and poorly thought out 'clever concepts' that it is nauseating. Then there is the 'Friendship' of the main characters. It starts with 'I don't like him" then One punches the other, then the one who got punched finds out, the new kid had a tough life and then he says he's sorty and they are now best friends. I suppose you could say they did sort of act like friends but as to their inner feelings about one another who knows? There is so little character development and since they are all, with one exception master liars, how can WE trust anything they say? Now we are told they have been friends for more than 15 years, so fine, they are friends, but don't tell me about how they developed such a great friendship when it is just 'Off-Page' assumptions. I know more about the look of this city and the names of its districts and its politics and the names of the nobles and what they wear and what they eat than I do about the characters, which is why I don't like any of them. The best of them, Jean, is OK. That's It, OK. The rest are basically trash and when they get killed it means nothing. I can accept that it means something to the character on the page, but I don't really sympathize with him because it was so obviously coming that he is a total ass for not seeing it happening. I would give this book a 2.5 out of 10 and that is only because it has a beginning, a high point, a low point, a plot and a conclusion. They aren't well orchestrated but at least it isn't left hanging. (I'm looking at you George R.R. Martin) I have no intention of reading the next two in the series. None. I don't recommend to anyone to read this, for any reason.
While I personally enjoyed the book when I read it back when it first came out, and can't really argue much with what you have to say about the book... except for one thing: I _really_ don't see it as "grimdark" at all. Sure, there appear to be a number of grimdark fans that are claiming it as such, but when I read Mark Lawrence's blog "Grimdark, we're nailing it down!" ( mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2017/08/grimdark-were-nailing-it-down.html ) it had a pretty low score. In that blog (which apparently used polling by a bunch of fans of the genre to find a consensus how grimdark various books are) it got a low score of 2.26 (the three highest scores were 4.72 for *Beyond* *Redemption* by Michael R Fletcher and 4.44 for *The* *Darkness* *That* *Comes* *Before* by R. Scott Bakker and in third 4.40 for *Prince* *of* *Thorns* by Mark Lawrence). Bakker's book easily deserved that score, I can attest to that! (I haven't read the other two.) At the bottom end of the scale we find (in the very last place) *The* *Sword* *of* *Shannara* by Terry Brooks with 1.16, *The* *Pawn* *of* *Prophecy* by David Eddings with 1.26 and *Magician* by Raymond E Feist with 1.46. What I find interesting about those bottom three is that the Eddings book was in my _ELEMENTARY SCHOOL_ library (K-6 in my school district), and the other two were both in my Junior High School (7-9) library. Somehow I don't really think grimdark is an appropriate genre for children, especially not for elementary school kids, children who most of whom haven't even hit puberty yet. In fact, none of the traits of grimdark (aside from violence, which is pretty much a hallmark of 99% of all Fantasy literature, including the Narnia books -- which nobody better dare try calling grimdark -- possess in spades) can be found in the aforementioned Eddings, Brooks or Feist. Or Lynch (from my recollection, other than the amorality of thieving, but see below). *Lies* *of* *Locke* *Lamora* is tied with N.K. Jemisin's *The* *Fifth* *Season* on points, and only once or twice have I seen that book referred to as grimdark, yet I've also seen it specifically described as "not grimdark." *Lord* *Foul's* *Bane* by Stephen R Donaldson scores even higher, at 3.18, and yet that is _most_ _assuredly_ _not_ _grimdark._ Perhaps the books of the "Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" could be categorised as grimdark, but not the three of "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever." As someone who has read those multiple times since the mid-to-late-80s, they just don't fit the mold. And even sillier (the much darker, much more grim novel) *Mistborn:* *the* *Final* *Empire* by Brandon Sanderson has a 1.97 on that ranking scale. Huh? What? Hell, "The Wheel of Time" (which isn't even on that list) is _much_ more grimdark than Lynch or Donaldson (or Eddings, Feist or Brooks): it has tons of violence, amorality and is rather dystopian from the get go (it is an apocalyptic time period after all, and you can't get more dystopian than the freaking apocalypse). Even Tolkien could kinda be considered moreseo (talking spiders that plan on eating the dwarves, talking goblins and orcs that plan on eating the hobbits, Shelob, Ringwraiths, all of which are pretty violent, and rather dystopian). [For the record, I'm using the Google-returned definition: "Grimdark is a subgenre of speculative fiction with a tone, style, or setting that is particularly dystopian, amoral, or violent."] Sauron's and Saruman's armies have ravaged half of Middle Earth (with sentient beings that literally eat other sentient beings, that's pretty frakking dystopian and violent). Not to mention the amorality of what Saruman's orcs and Uruk-hai are doing to Fangorn Forest. Or the amorality of what Saruman and Grima did to the Shire. So why isn't "Lord of the Rings" considered grimdark? About the only part of that definition that Lynch catches that most fantasy doesn't catch as much is "amoral," and that is only because the main protagonists are thieves (notice I refrain from calling them "heroes?"). I don't think that alone makes it grimdark. If that was the case, add a touch of magic to it and suddenly *Oliver* *Twist* is grimdark, and that just doesn't seem right. What I think has happened here is that a bunch of fans of grimdark are grasping at straws and trying to claim everything under the sun as part of their favorite sub-genre (or at least the stuff they like), and calling it that as a way of bolstering their sub-genre in the eyes of those who pass on it or just don't like it. It's a way of saying "oh, you don't like grimdark? But you like {Book X} don't you? Well, _that's_ grimdark! So you really do already like grimdark, so now read this book!" That's what it seems like is happening here, people trying to appropriate all sorts of works of Fantasy (and I'm sure Science Fiction as well) Literature as "their own" aka grimdark. But other than that (and I know my patent-pending Wall of Text makes it seem I'm worked up) I liked your review, and agreed with much of what you said, even if I enjoyed the book at the time I read it. Oh, and I actually see Locke as basically being the Fantasy world version of Han Solo, take that for what it's worth. I really don't see much difference between their personalities, just their actual activities differ (due to settings of course). And Solo doesn't even place in my Top 25 favorite Star Wars characters, so... I'll hopefully be rereading this book sometime later this year, as I've been meaning to read book three, and I don't fully remember what happened in one and two, not well enough to just jump in to the newest.
I liked Locke overall but yeah the waiter thing kind of caught me off gaurd too 😂 but his chaotic way of going through life and problem solving was just so entertaining lol
I just finished the book and you said aloud what is going on in my head since I put it down. Really glad I read it, it has wonderful world building. I'd love to go and visit Camorr, but couldn't care less for the characters. One think was that they kept repeating how smart Locke was when I found he kept doing stupid things and not see the obvious most of the time. And yes, please give me a back story for the Grey King. I was expecting turmoil, emotions, sadness and revenge..but nothing. As said happy I read it but will not continue the serie. Thank you for your review :D
I couldn't finish the third book, the characters made me want to bash my head into a wall with all of the extremely forced and unnatural "witticism" and, just in my opinion, a forced feeling of trying to get you to like and think the characters were funny and likeable when I could never find myself believing in either
I dnf'd the book because all og the reasons in your review, but you said it better. I sat hier thinkin, yes to everything. I so strongly disliked the flashbacks I just could not take it any more.
The humour of this book was just perfect.🤣 The bromance between Locke & Jean was just chefs kiss👍. I have had many rereads of this book and I know the flashbacks so well now that they don't kick me out of the tale. In the altercation between the Spider and Locke, think back to who struck who first. I would have punched her too. I bet that long poisoned knitting needle really hurt his throat. Poor guy. 😉
I respect being subjective but I think a lot of your dislike for the characters is just them being fundamentally flawed intentionally along with expecting them to make the implied correct decisions or courses of action. But ill agree the way some situations were resolved made me take a step back and be like ok dude
Yeah, but I guess for me I just legitimately didn’t like them. Idk, there are other books where I don’t like the characters, yet I still find them interesting or want to follow them. Here, I found myself kind of annoyed with them 😅
I think the impulsive nature of Locke is burdensome but I wonder if it's meant to be. He doesn't care about the consequences to other people sometimes even his own friends. He gets away with it by relying on the few friends he has because they came from crippling backgrounds and maybe don't know their own worth. I wonder if the character is based on someone the author knows.
Grim Dark "light" for me but I get the feeling that you are not a fan of the genre in general. Can't think of something you really liked that fit the mold. As I mentioned in the previous video, it WAS tough to get into. And I absolutely remember saying to myself, "not another flashback!" I, however, ended up loving the characters and the GBs were what kept me reading the series. Request: Do a "Top 5 Grim Dark Fantasy Novels that I Love" video. PS. I don't think you were being overly harsh. It just wasn't your cup of tea. I like Earl Grey, no sugar, you are more of a Chamomile with honey type of person. PPS. I don't really like Earl Grey but you get the point. ;)
Haha, I do get the point! You know, I don’t care for most grimdark I read, so you’re not wrong about that, but I did really enjoy First Law. I think I’m general it’s a genre that takes chances, and most of those chances don’t work for me 😅
good review... i agree the attempts to get fancy clothes at the end felt out of place and too much of a pause of action in a slightly tedious way.. also i did feel that the punching of the lady Spider in the teeth was too easy, and that the same lady gives him full pardon was unbelievably convenient. I also think that the Gray King was an overly simple character that could have used a lot more depth, buuuut I believe it’s one of those cases where the author knew that he had better villains in mind for later on in the series that the Gray King simply suffered from being the first level mini boss. All in all the book is entertaining and written well, started Red Seas today... has an intriguing start and am excited about reading. =]
Hey i have a question Can you please tell me the name of the book series on the left of the screen which are 12 in number and are white in colour their art style seems very good and that interests me
Rob answered you, but just want to say that Vinland is amazing, and my hubby would tell you Vagabond is a little slower, but the art is beautiful and the story is fantastic :)
As a side comment; if this book had been written in chronological order where all the main character chapters were actually put into the order they happened instead of the jarring jumps from present to past and further past etc. it would have been a marginally better book. Not good, but decent.
On God! I DNF'ed this book at Chapter Two because I couldn't stand the structure. One of the biggest turn offs is that he includes flashbacks in the first chapters when you actually DON'T CARE about them. I wish he took a more linear approach,rather than screwing up the pacing and lowering the stakes in the chapters.
@@henrywayne5724 Right there with you. Still, I almost didn't get past the 5 year old master thief which I took to be an aurhor insert... you know, putting his d&d character thief into the book or some such. It really drained my batteries with all the eye rolling...
SPOILER! Just finished this book and loved it! I think your criticisms are largely valid, but I will say that I think the Grey King was clearly made aware of Jean's combat prowess and therefore was genuinely nervous for his feigned arrival at the end. The fact that Jean single handedly killed his sisters would be enough to make him very fearful of him, I'd say.
I DNF-ed that book after 20 % and I felt so bad because many people who usually share my taste really love this book and I just didn't care. I hated the characters, I didn't care for the storytelling with all the flashbacks and the detailed description of the scenes...It was boring and annoying imo.
I feel exactly the same! I struggled through the first 75% of the book (it took a long time) and only really enjoyed the last 25%. I didn't particularly like any of the characters... especially Lock (it makes out he is so cunning but he does almost nothing smart throughout the whole book!). I did appreciate the writing and the world though - it is a very good book.... just not for me.
It’s funny how all the reasons you gave for not liking the book all that much I usually agree with. And yet... I really love this book lol Guess every rule does have an exception! You’re right tho. If you don’t like fhese characters, there is NO WAY you’ll like the book that much. I still love it though🤷🏽♀️ Ps: loved your earings!
@@ebnovels oh my gosh thanks for the offer, but I'm in Australia :') that's part of the issue, don't want to order it online because oh my gosh shipping costs are crazy 😬
Spoilers My favorite part of the book is when Locke calls back the flashback when he's defeating the grey king. "I don't have to kill you, I just have to keep you here till Jean gets back"
![Lies of Locke Lamora [SPOILER] Discussion With Friends!](/img/n.gif)
I've made my feelings clear, but I hope all of you know that it's never my intention to put down anything anyone loves or works so hard on (which I believe this author did), but rather to be honest and informative. So for those that adore this book, let everyone know why you think it's amazing and should be read. Have a lovely day! Pick this book up if you think it sounds interesting!!! :)
You r so carefull with not wanting to hurt people . Its nice to see that but dont worry too much!Its easy to see you have no ill intention :)
I actually like it when you especially have a contradicting opinion to me. Its so much fun to see how different taste can be. I understand all of that but Bug. How could you leave Bug out of the review? I am weeping. Jokes aside, Lies of locke lamora was a favourite but your problems with it made the review even more interesting
I really appreciate it when booktubers are honest about their feelings. If I wanted only good reviews I could look on the book jacket 😃
One of the best friendships in fantasy between Locke and Jean
I love this series but I highly respect your opinion.
The Gray King could actually reference Jean's power and knows that he's dangerous cause Jean frickin fought with BOTH of his sisters AT THE SAME TIME.. and he frickin KILLED THEM
I loved that Locke doesn't do what he's told most of the time, and how he interacted with magic users. Had me laughing out loud, especially after the flashback where we learn how they should be treated. Loved it...
Exactly. That had me lmao. Reminded me a little of Harry Dresdin. Half his problems could be solved if he didn't get in his own way.
Oh yay, thank you for pointing out your differing opinion! I think that makes a lot of sense, even if it made me kinda annoyed at him 😅
For someone who was faking a lot of things, he was definitely not faking his attitude towards the mage. It was funny but he wouldn't have been in such bad shape had he held his tongue a bit and faked a more submissive attitude.
This exact part of the book is the only thing that's made me actually physically laugh whilst reading any book for as long as I can remember. I loved the wit and humour in it!
I came to comment this same thing. Actually laughed out loud how he did the flashback and then immediately cursed out the mage. So good.
I am so happy that people actually put spoiler alert before their comment unlike every tv show video
If you like Quentin Tarantino films, you should like Locke Lamora. Hilarious dialogue, morally ambiguous but likeable characters, over-the-top violence, nonlinear storytelling. If you don't like that sort of thing, you won't like the book (or series). I think it's brilliant but I can see why it's not for everyone.
Thanks for this! I appreciate the comparison:) Now I know I'm going to enjoy it!
I second the other comment-thanks for the comparison! I think that makes perfect sense 😊
O yes!!!
I mean.. I LOVE Tarantino films, but I couldn’t get past 90 pages into this book. It was a struggle, but your comparison does make sense.
@@DecimalD_ Same, I'm a huge Tarantino fan, but I couldn't stand this book, I tried but gave up with just 2 hours left of the audiobook XD I don't find the similarity.
Thank u for your honest review. Sums up my thoughts exactly. Way too many people blindly gushing over this book. It has great elements but definitely not for everyone
Life is strange : I admired all the things that you didn't in this book. I rather liked the dynamic between Locke & Jean, and the interludes were possibly my favourite part of the book. I didn't find the moving back and forth in time jarring at all. The writing style resonated with me ; I literally had to force myself to put the book down at times to stop myself finishing it too quickly. I think with any novel, if you don't like the characters you're on a hiding to nothing, and for whatever reason they just didn't click for you. I'm the same with Fitz, for example, in Robin Hobb's books ... I couldn't give a damn about him. Or most of the characters in Wheel of Time. One thing we can all agree on, though, is Luna is fluffy ... and cute :)
She is fluffy and cute 😄 Haha, it’s funny, isn’t the first Hobb book (the only one I’ve read so far) I didn’t really feel that bad for Fitz, and then with WoT, the characters I did care about I cared for less and less as I read into book four. You’d think this one would’ve been another check for us, but I’m glad it wasn’t and that you enjoyed it!
SPOILER:
The Grey King was probably terrified of Jean. Jean killed both of the Grey King's sisters, who were legendary warriors.
I can totally understand why someone wouldn't like this book. The reasons you have mentioned are precisely why I love the book so much. If you are someone who isn't getting into the book, please don't be discouraged into not reading it. At least get 200 pages in and if you still don't dig it, by all means put it down. I got back into reading this year because of this book.
SPOILERS AHEAD
Subjectively, I can totally get why this book didn't work for you. Personally, having recently read the book as well, I think to some extent you misunderstood the ending, especially the stuff with The Gray King. The whole point is that he has been so absorbed by the idea of his revenge that he only seeks to benefit himself and has resolved that no one else's priorities can get in the way, even if it means harming people that have nothing to do with his crusade, that's the main difference between him and Locke, to Locke revenge wasn't for his satisfaction, it was driven more by his promise to his brothers and even after he kills The Gray King, he doesn't revel in the victory at all, he cries like a baby. Also, I don't really get your distaste for the way Locke killed the Gray King. I thought it was a great subversion of expectation. He used the Gray Kings expectations against him, that's how Locke always get by, he coys with people based on their pre existing expectations and uses it against them. If the story had gone the way you suggested, that would have been fun, but really cliche and far less satisfying.
To each their own, this was the only point in the review where I raised my eyebrows a bit, but that could also be a result of you not enjoying the book and that's okay.
Spoilers:
I just didn’t think the distraction against the King made sense. We’d been told he was an extremely skilled fighter, and him getting distracted the way he did seemed-like the spider getting punched-way too easy of an out. Jean showing up would’ve been cliche, but...I actually feel a lot of things in the book were. The line where Jean says, “Wicked sisters, meet the wicked sisters,” is an example.
As for the King wanting revenge, I still feel his plans were just too cartoonish to make him the kind of villain I like. You can be willing to have people struck down who are in your way, but his plans were so over the top that he lost all depth to me.
Not a matter of misunderstanding, just matters of preference.
@@ebnovels I can see your point, but in all honesty, I never thought Jean's line was cliche. That was one of the funniest and most badass moments in the book. Also, just because there are cliches earlier in the book doesn't necessarily mean the plot needs to conclude that way.
I can totally understand why The Gray King isn't to your liking, sorry I used the word 'misunderstanding', guess it was too strong. But I still feel as if what you suggested would have made the book a little underwhelming. It is nice to see someone with a completely different view than my own. Sometimes, I just need a few more days to collect my thoughts after listening to such a review.
Just one tiny thing, Locke always fights people who are skilled unfairly, it was set up in the initial fight with Conte.
@@ebnovels jean did kill grey kings' only alive twin sisters afterall🙄 who were kinda reputed fighters too
I needed this review. I’m about 150 pages in and the writing style just isn’t hooking me. I’d heard great things about this book and wondered what I was missing but your review suggests that there’s a type of person this book isn’t really for and that’s okay. I may read a little further, but might bail without any guilt. Thank you!
spoilers:
The Gray King did got the refrence of Jean because he knew Jean killed his two warrior sisters 1 against 2. So of cource he would be terrified of him especially when Lock has a hold of him.
He didn’t see Jean kill his sisters. For all he knows, there was deceit and trickery involved.
Elliot Brooks one could tell from the wounds that it was a physical fight. The sisters would never be so careless that they could be surprised or tricked. And the mage determined that it was all Jean‘s blood on their knives.
Thank you! I've been so torn about reading this for the past year. Everyone I've talked to and every video I've watched has said that it is incredible, but I had reservations. Your review is the most detailed I've seen, and we seem to have similar tastes (based on your criticism of the book). I think I'll pass on this one for the time being (which is a relief... there are way too many other fantasy books to read!)
PS - I'm glad you are so open to reviewing books that you don't like, and being refreshingly honest about your opinions. Lately I've found it hard to find "negative" reviews for books on UA-cam . It seems like everyone is always gushing about every book they read (the exceptions being you, Daniel, and Merphy). But its cool that you can dislike a book but still be objective and respectful about it. You strike a good balance in your reviews. Keep it up!
Well thank you! It’s so funny what we all tend to find is the case online, cuz recently I’ve been seeing what feels like tons of negative reviews 😆 If you do get around to this book, I hope you really enjoy it 💗
You should really read this book. Trust me, it's not as weird as this review makes it seem. The interludes of world building are great.
It's got a "Quentin tarantino" or "Boondock Saints" style with the flashbacks and ordering of the plot. The dialogue also has a similar feel as those films.
So if you like those films then you should read the book. But if it bothers you, you probably shouldn't.
@@shalonsmith1337 oh man you just hit the nail on the head. I’d been wondering what this book felt like an imitation of, and those were all really popular properties in the mid-2000s that had a try-hard “badassness” that hasn’t aged well.
Oh Finally a review I have been waiting for. I am struggling with Gentlemen Bastard series for years now, glad to see I am not only one! I liked the book, but found it very underwhelming mainly because it is overhyped. It was fine. I also agree with many things said in your review. There is something in those books which turns me down. I still want to finish series one day, but it is a struggle. Not completely without reward, but struggle noneles.
Sorry it was underwhelming for you! Hopefully by the end of the series you’ll really love it 💕
This just seems to be one of those books/series where people love it, and others don't. I fall into the 'loved it' camp (instantly read the next two in the series, and loved those too). I hear, and understand, your critiques of the things you didn't like, or that annoyed you about some of the decisions that the author made. I was so engrossed with the characters, the city and the shenanigans Locke gets involved in, that I didn't really notice any of those things. I thought the audiobook flew by.
Good! I’m glad you enjoyed it so much. I think it’s fascinating to see how people can feel so differently toward something 😄
You've got the whole vagabond series on your shelf... so cool.
And Vinland saga
I’m about a third of the way through and struggling a bit. I appreciate the spoiler free review- it helped me understand why I’m feeling the way I am.
That’s good! It takes some awhile to get into, so I’m hoping you end up liking it 😊
I think once you understand what the interludes are doing, things start making much more sense. At least that's how it was for me.
I think Scott Lynch has a lot of strengths as a writer. His use of dialogue, character relationships, world building, and his grasp of structure - even if flash-backs aren't your thing - are pretty masterfully pulled off in this book. It takes a lot of skill to write a book this way - and pull it off, the way he did.
I do agree with Elliot in that some of the scenes could be cut done significantly, or summed up with more brevity. I did have those page-turning moments where I loathed putting the book down, but there were other moments when reading it felt like a little bit of slog - just because we we're so removed from the plot. I didnt mind it too much; the trade off for the world building was enough for me, because I was as much invested in the world as the plot. It was kind of a win-win.
I also loved the passage that mentioned the sports teams. For me it really solified the identity of Cammor, and who these people really are. I thought it was a fantastic way of giving the city a cultural identity. The way a lot of sports teams in real life do - as they are a cultural touch-stone.
I enjoyed The Lies of Locke Lamora, and if anything I said or anyone else has said about the book appeals to you - please get a hold of it and give it a shot.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! You put everything out there so respectfully-I really appreciate that 💗
I think the biggest problem of the book is that it makes a promise, and it doesnt deliver on it. The beginning of the book (which is great) promises us a group of somewhat flawed characters who are gonna pull a series of amazing heists, put together by the master planner Locke. I was looking forward to see these plans unfold and get more and more intricate, and to get to know these thief characters better, and maybe meet some new ones.
Sadly, the book completely fails in this regard, and goes in a totally different direction. The already short list of important characters gets cut down to 2, and the main conflict(s) aren't resolved by a master-plan coming together, but mostly by improvisation, luck and unlikely wins in combat.
The development of two characters we're left with isn't quite so exciting either. Jean felt like a Mary Sue, he has no flaws and his strengths and talents aren't particularly interesting or original either. He was the plump son of merchants, who got a good education and is skilled with numbers and languages, and somehow had the innate talent to be the best fighter of the entire city. His natural talents were nurtured by the best arms-master without issues, he's the unchallenged best fighter ever. He's loyal, he's strong, he's smart. He's the best sidekick ever, with no mystery to him.
Locke is a bit more complex and there are a lot of mysteries around him, that are only hinted at in this book, but again, he was introduced as a slender bodied planning genius and the best actor who ever was, yet his only master-plan of the book remains the one introduced in act one, the more important problems he resolved with on-the-fly decision making, skill with the sword and pure luck.
I agree with that. I mentioned the farm stuff, but I also actually wish I could’ve seen Jean learning to fight. I wouldn’t say I’m a fan of training montages, but we sort of were told he went to learn from that person, he talked to that person, and then he was the one saving all of them from gangs.
@Horacio Nelson The twins are supposed to be super-elite, their like the top personal bodyguards of the city's most wanted crime boss, and former champions of the blood-sport which includes dancing above hungry sharks and whatnot. They should be tough opposition 1v1, and unbeatable 2v1 by normal humans. Fantasy books in general underrate how big an advantage 2v1 is, but that's besides the point. Jean used to be a fat kid, that's true, and that didnt hinder him at all in becoming the best fighter. He's described as bulky or something even now, but obviously he's not slowed down by his weight or anything like that. He obviously cant beat a bondsmage, who are the super overpowered characters of the series (to the point which i'd say it's straight up lazy writing how OP they are. The only reason they can defeat one, because that one is acting in a super stupid and careless manner). Being outmatched by a super OP villain doesnt mean he isnt a Mary Sue character, or he isnt one-dimensional. As for Locke's planning, as i said, it's mostly improvisation and luck after the first arc of the story, which is a shame, I was really intrigued at first.
I agreed with most of your thoughts. I thought this book was just OK but I can totally see how it could be people’s favourite book. It’s unique which I think makes it fun but it wasn’t for me personally.
For me this is a case of a book where I understand its flaws but the overarching reason of giving me a blast makes me adore it. I’m actually all in favor of playing with the flow of the story and its rhythm, but that’s a personal preference.
Locke and Jean are redux versions of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and it shows, but I overall liked their interaction and arcs. Though I would have preferred
(Spoiler)
Having more of Bug.
The only thing that didn’t convince me was the use of curse words. If felt it would have been more organic if he just invented curse words in camorran.
I think the cursing was interesting because when I would pick up the physical copy, a lot of the cursing was in italics. I guess in my head I already hear people say those words with emphasis? I agree about the other character you mentioned. I would’ve probably been upset by what happened to them if I’d seen them more. Regardless, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
This book seems very heavily based on Skyrim honestly. A thieves guild that worships the Goddess of theft (in Skyrim the goddess is Nocturnal).
Haha, which came out first?!? We have to get to the bottom of this! 😄
I had the same thought when reading the book, which is why I liked it so much tbh, the Elder Scrolls just doesn't have much in the books category, so it was kinda nice to have one so closely related.....but the differences in setting made it even more interesting. The overarching idea of a "thieves guild" and the deity they worship is really where the similarities end though, the magic system in SL's world is interesting in the fact that only a certain group of people can wield it, which makes them feel that much more dangerous.
and in response to Elliot, the Elder Scrolls series (the video game series in which Skyrim belongs) began game releases in the mid 90s.
@@ebnovels pretty sure elder scrolls did the first game came out in the 90's and i think it had a thieves guild and the goddess they worship.
Thank you so much! I thought I was the only one not really liking the book.
Everyone seemed super hyped and recommended it and even though I got used to the interludes, I never really cared for any of the characters. I felt like I didn't get to know them well enough. And because of that, I couldn't really care when bad stuff started happening.
I was pretty disappointed to be honest
A big reason that I really enjoyed the book was because I couldn’t predict a lot of things and I can usually predict things easily and so many things were a surprise to me. Also I can understand why you don’t like the characters or you think Locke acts dumb with the mage but Locke has a lot of pride and he thinks he is very cunning so he gets annoyed when he gets outsmarted which makes him irrational. Also this world is quite literally you do what you can to survive so sucks for the other guy that had his life ruined but that’s Camorr and it is what Locke needed to do.
Spoiler:
The grey king knows how powerful jean was because he single-handedly killed both of his sisters who were veterans in gladiator like combat against very powerful creatures and who had extremely good teamwork, also other of his men could’ve told him about how strong jean was cause the were part of the old group. Good review though I respect your opinions even though I don’t agree with some but I understand your thought process.
All the criticism points you made were spot on. I just finished yesterday and I thought it was amazing but you definitely made some valid points.
This is one series I highly recommend listening to the audio books. I just finished the audio series and it’s now my favorite series. The voice actor absolutely slays it. I cannot wait for the next one to be released in a couple months.
I’m glad you liked it! I listened to the audiobook on and off, but the story just didn’t work for me 😮
Elliot Brooks I’m sorry! Like you said it’s all subjective :). I’m glad you say that. Because you’re not taking responsibility for people not reading something. It should be read to be sure
I agree with your opinions on this book. I hoped I'd like the series better by the end of the third book, but the style of writing with the flashbacks and whatnot stays the same. So, if you weren't happy with the first book...you won't like the second or third.
I can totally see why people could dislike the book, and I really like how you explained your points.
I personally love the book because of Locke. I really like his friendship with Jean and I like other characters too, but I have gotten bored of, not only reading about, but watching main characters in movies and similar that are usually perfect both morally and at what they do. And while I do enjoy characters being really excited when they accomplish something and all, Locke just felt so much more real to me. He does something that's for his own benefit, he takes the money for himself, but he does it because that's what he was raised for and it's something he apparently enjoys doing. And while that might be morally wrong, it makes him feel more like a person who is a part of this world and all its ups and downs.
He really wants revenge, but he wants it for his friends/brothers sake and not for himself, and that makes him seem like he actually has emotions and is attached to people around, maybe because he is scared. His life isn't really what he chose himself. He never knew different really, so he clinges to the people close to him because they are what makes him happy at the end of the day. The fact that he wasn't extra happy he made it out and instead mourned for his brothers is something that also touched me, because it shows us how vulnerable he is again, and what his motivation is.
So he has his good sides, and bad sides (many more than I mentioned here) and sometimes the good doesn't overpower the bad and he has to learn from his mistakes. It's what draws me to him.
Last thing is that I cannot even express with words how happy I am that there has only been mention of him being in love, and the focus of the story is nowhere near a fantasy romance story. I am also a little sick of characters always having relationships from the start or one of the main plots being the relationship developing. This makes me excited to read on, because now I am connected to these characters on a different emotional level, and I am happy to learn about their love interests more than if I did in the first book.
I really liked this video, because you had your own opinion on it and you being so precise with your review made me realise what I like about this book. I often read books that I love or hate, but then I can't sort my thoughts out so I need to watch someone else with the opposite opinion so that I could be more aware.
One of the best books I’ve ever read, well listened to as I listened to it on audible. The best dialogue, and the story was phenomenal.
I LOVE the books but also understand your criticism. It‘s very much a personal preference thing. I loved that the story isn‘t told in a linear way but is like a woven fabric. It‘s not that I‘m not frustrated when we leave a scene right before everything happens. I just think that the payoff is worth all the frustration. Same with the characters. They are described as brilliant people but letting them do the most stupid of things or be horrible people at times adds so much dimension in my opinion. And I also just love how vivid Camorr is portrayed. I just loved everything about it.
I‘m glad that you gave it a shot and it was really interesting to see it from a different perspective.
Edit: please also read my comment below this one. I didn’t put it in this one because of spoilers.
I’ll make sure to find that one!
Elliot Brooks it’s just pinned to this one as a subcomment. But I‘ve seen another comment who also made the same point. Thank you very much for paying attention tho :)
Finished your video. I love Locke and Jean's friendship. I loved all of the Gentlemen Bastards. When there were tragedies, I felt pain. When Locke was trying to con bankers into giving him their clothes, I looked at it as a peek into how meticulous his cons are.
I was a repair technician for a major phone company and I worked on high end data circuits. The way I repaired the systems was very much like Lock's approach. Try the first thing. If that doesn't work, try the first thing plus the second. If that doesn't work, Try the second thing. Then the second and the third. The the first and the third, and so on.
I respect your opinion because you love First Law. Funny that I don't think of this book as grim, dark. Locke is a very complex character, as we learn through the books. It's only hinted at in this one. But the way he was brought into the cemetery gang, and eventually sold to Chains, should tell everyone that there is something different about him.
Enough. Enough. I hope you read the other books. I'm going to look now.
I listened to them all and love the narrator. I look forward to book four.
I really WANTED to love this book. Unfortunately I also had a hard time with it for a lot of the same reasons.
Well I’m sorry! I was in the same boat though 😯
@@ebnovels that's ok! I know how hard it is to put a negative review out, especially for a well loved book. So many people get offended and ridiculous. So I just wanted to let you know you're not alone girl! It's ok to not like a book and have different opinions and I wish more people would embrace that!
Great review! I really liked when Locke failed to get the clothes twice.
Hey. I have a question. when you prepare to review a book on UA-cam do you take notes while you are reading the book? do you make sure to read with your eyes when review prepping or have you ever done a review after only listening to an audiobook?
I am very vocal about my love for this series, especially Lies but I also think your criticism was very fair.
The style is not gonna be for everyone, I even struggled with some of the flashbacks, I think they're often clever but once or twice I was very taken out of the world and story by them.
That being said I've reread this book quite a bit and still love it. I definitely think it has flaws but there's something about a group of inherently not good rogues who care for each other and are witty and loyal that just really gets me, I think I may just love found family narratives a lot, even when the family members are all terrible.
My last reread was a while ago ap I can't address too much specifically but the waiter thing has always bugged me.
I don't know I struggle to really explain why I love this book so much but I do. I think I just love the idea of one of those spam emails about a Nigerian prince but played out in real life.
Hahahaha, oh my gosh, that last part is hilarious! I’m glad you love it so much. No worries about not being able to pinpoint why-sometimes we just like what we like! 😊
I’m reading it now and it’s been a struggle. English is not my first nor my second language and this book... I don’t know if it’s the story, the writing (I usually read in english, two weeks ago I finished The Blade Itself, I liked it and it was an easy reading) but after more than a week I’m only on page 120 and that’s not a good sign.
I found myself in the exact same situation with the first 150 pages or so, but i kept going because i love Locke and i really recommend you push through, it gets a lot easier once the plot starts to get going and you realise what actually is going on. i just finished it and i totally love it now!
First Law books are way better.
I appreciate your honesty in reviews. If you liked every popular book I would be suspicious.
Someone mentioned this below, but without having read the book, it just instantly brought images of Skyrim's Thieves Guild and the worship of Nocturnal to my mind!
The Gray King knew Jean was dangerous because he killed both of his very competent sisters 2v1!
I was really bored with Locke trying to get the clothes too lol
I loved this book, but I agree with your criticisms almost completely. I can see why you didn’t enjoy the flashbacks and anecdotes but I always appreciate more worldbuilding and I felt like those cutaways slowed the pace in a refreshing way. There were fewer of them in the last act and I had to read from the cellar being burnt to the end all at once because of pacing. I loved it but I did cause me to stay up reading until 4am.
***SPOILER ALERT!!!!***
I love this book and absolutely connected with all the characters! I literally cried when the Galdo, Calo, and Bug died 😭 The friendship between Locke and Jean is so refreshing! I just want to say that I highly recommend this book.
Michael Page as the audiobook narrator really props up any dull expository moments of LLL. Michael Page is just fantastic throughout all 3 of the released novels. After they leave Camorr the stakes, the trials, the chaos rise even higher. It's great to see more flashbacks from the House of Perelandro and Father Chains, and all the unique and clever worldbuilding from the mind of Lynch. The author has stated he feels book 4 is the proper first book of the Gentlemen Bastard Sequence and books 1-3 are like prequels, history, backstory, and flashbacks. I think The Thorn of Emberlaine may come out this year. Fingers crossed. I need to get back to my favourite Locke & Sabetha soaps. ❤👍
Haha, well can I skip to book 4? 😆
Lies of Locke Lamora is one of my favorite fantasy books, so some of your review was indeed a bit frustrating for me to watch because you were describing and critiquing things that I absolutely loved. Especially your comparison with Princess Bride plus more brutal/serious moments. Because that was spot on and it is actually why I think this book is so amazing.
However, even though it might be frustrating to watch an unfavorable review about one of my favorites, I think you articulate the reasons why you personally disliked the book very well and obviously taste and personal preferences differ from reader to reader and there is no right or wrong opinion about a book.
The one aspect that I thought was missing in your review was the relationship between Locke and Jean and between all the gentleman bastards. For me this friendship was one of the main reasons why I loved the book so much, and I wonder if that didn't resonate with you as much because you didn't like the characters individually. Just curious.
Hahaha, I’m glad that was a decent comparison 😅
As for the friendships, I actually didn’t feel they were that strong. I didn’t want to touch on that because I don’t know if I had specific reasons. It could be that I didn’t care for the characters, but I think for me it was that I didn’t actually see the characters together that much. Sometimes they’d be together in flashbacks, but even then they weren’t very often.
What I don't like about the series is that at the end of the third book we are at pretty much the exact same point where we were at the end of the first book.
Nothing relevant happened for the story in books 2 and 3
Lots of flashback like Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom Type?
I feel like people are so scared just to have opinions nowadays. I really felt that at the end of your review :/
Finally someone else who didn’t care for this book! I found Lies to be very meh but continued with the series just to see books 2 and 3 get progressively worse. I would attribute most of my indifference and dislike to not being in love with the Locke/Jean friendship-it just didn’t resonate with me like it seems to with everyone else-and the whole “Locke has a smart moth and doesn’t know when to shut up” thing, that’s kind of done to death and like you said, in the absolute worst situations. He’s supposed to be smart but his actions undermine that.
I agree 100% yet I somehow still enjoyed the book and might consider the next one. My favorite scene in the whole book was Locke and Jean (I think) getting out the window along with the guy who was messing around with the married woman. The "close the window, close the window, close the F'ing window" line had me rolling. I had really high expectations of the book because of all the praise it gets.
My thoughts are so similar to yours! It convinced me not to do a reread to see if I just didn't get it last time.
Well I’m sorry you didn’t care for it, but I’m glad I could help 😊
Ah! You've read Gentlemen Bastards! My other favorite new series. It's like Oceans Eleven meets Cassanova. I just watched your First Law videos. I'm glad you read these, too. I'm going to watch you now.
I really appreciated the Interludes truly being Interludes because then you could just skip them. I didn’t get trapped in an info dump or any kind of extended backstory because he saved all of that for the interludes. So if you want it, great. It’s there. If not skip it and get back to the main plot.
I’m sure others do this, but this was the first book I’ve ever read that was set up this way and I just thought it was a nice touch.
Gah! I do love your reviews. Even if my opinions differ from yours, your reviews always make me want to re-read books I’ve already read. Hmmm. How to fit another read of these books into the ever-growing TBR? Loved the Gentleman Bastard Sequence and definitely want more of this world and these characters.
I’m glad you enjoyed it! Hopefully you’ll get to read the next ones soon 😊
Over all I enjoyed the book, but I liked the flashbacks when they were kids more.
I have been debating on reading this series but it is a commitment. It is not a complete series and I already have so many series to catch up on or sound more interesting. I have similar opinions of books as you and your opinions on Nevernight made me feel less guilty about DNFing it. Now I have to get back to reading so I can finish The Way of Kings by the end of February! 😁
I'm glad I'm not the only one bothered by the constant back and forth flashbacks. It feels jarring and I'm struggling to keep reading it but so many reviews say the actual story is great so I'm trying to give it a chance. I feel like the issue with the flashback format is that I don't have a chance to observe and feel the character development because I feel like even though it's the same individual, I'm reading two different characters.
It reminds me of those heist movies, as well as the episode of Rick and Morty where they try to pull off the greatest heist where you get to a point, and then it shows the flashbacks of how they made it possible.
I finished the book then watched this review, and I feel almost exactly the same way you do about it. Lynch nailed the world building and theme (revenge comes with a cost!), but he fumbled character change and story structure. To Lynch’s credit, his tale was engaging enough for me to stick with it all the way, warts and all, but I agree that Lynch could have been more efficient with his storytelling-possibly by a couple hundred pages.
(Spoiler ahead)
Toward the end of your review you discussed the Gray King’s reaction to Locke’s mention of Jean. I think the Gray King responded strongly to Jean’s “arrival because Jean killed his sisters, but it wasn’t readily apparent that that he in fact was aware of who did the deed. And you mentioned not liking the characters-I did not overly like them either. I like Dona Salvara and the Spider and Bug. I wish Locke had more of a change or revelation, but he and his crew were fairly one note.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to learn “How to Lose the Time War.”
I've put this book off for a while because the setting isn't really my thing, but your description sounds like exactly my own writing style. I guess I'll have to read it now.
I hope you enjoy it :)
This is one my favorite series. I always recommend it to others. Just so unpredictable and I actually liked the main character as much as the side characters, which is rare for me. It has a little bit of everything for everyone, except for romance (in the first book anyway). Definitely reading these all again before the fourth one comes out.
I have the audiobook on my phone - PERMANENTLY! I believe Scott Lynch does a fantastic job building characters that the reader cares about and have interesting personalities - from the Thiefmaker to Locke and Jean, through Barsavi and the Gray King (Yes, I actually cared about him). It is possible the subject matter may not appeal to you Elliot. The irony and sarcasm of the characters really makes them who they are. I do believe the story takes itself seriously at times (The Murder Hole Scene) and the scourging of the temple by the Bondsmage / Gray Kings men, but is very heavily contrasted by the tone and nature of Locke's general antics and schemes.
I just recently read the book and I really liked it, I think the story was well done and I wanted to keep reading. Although I have to agree with you, I fell like I didn't connect and cared much for the characters... and when terrible things happened.. I just didn't care much. But overall I think it was quite good and Im looking forward to reading the new books
I’m glad you felt that way! I wasn’t saddened when bad stuff happened, though I was aware those things were awful, so I think we felt similarly about that :)
Thought I was the only one who didn’t like this. I didn’t like the characters, the constant swearing and over-the-top violence just seemed juvenile, and the story devolves into the most generic plot ever. Complete with “bad guy has captured the main character and decides to kill him using an elaborate contraption that will only probably kill him instead of just, I don’t know, stabbing him or something” trope that Austin Powers made fun of twenty years ago. Ooh, the bad guy was wronged by society, and so he wants to get back at society by setting a ticking time bomb that can conveniently be defused in a couple minutes. Definitely the plan of a criminal genius who has been planning this whole thing for years!
I’m going to be really honest, you making the Austin Powers comparison made my day. All the stuff with the sharks made me think of Powers, and I kept doing the pinky to my mouth thing the villain does whenever I’d talk to my hubby about the book. There’s one point in the review where I almost did that hand gesture and then had to stop myself 😆
Dude just because you can't stand violence doesn't make it childish. Hows that even make sense?
I'm tired of seeing characters die in books and that's that. In reality the person who killed them would end up soaking up all the dark details. Like how Lynch gives you the details.
I really don't think the main villain was as stupid as you're making him out to be, and I have no idea what elaborate contraption you're talking about that he supposedly tried to use to kill Locke. As far as I recall, in their final encounter it was a straightforward swordfight. Before that, he tried to trick Barsavi into killing Locke which almost worked.
Only thing I remember really disliking was (SPOILERS) the reveal of who the grey King was. When Locke first meets him he gets the impression he'd been in his presence before and for the LONGEST time I thought he must've been either one of the kids he'd supposedly caused the deaths of, or the daughter of that godfather character (I am not attempting to name names. I listened to the audio book so have no idea how to spell them) who he was sooort of engaged to. I was kinda hoping it was her in disguise playing a long con to take over the city and get out of the engagement as an added bonus, a sort of mirror of Locke I supposed. I just felt like her introduction and later scene with her insisting that they'll find away to get out of being married set up far too much for her to simply die off-page. I honestly thought the grey king might have been her until they made their way back to the temple after the horse piss ordeal. The fact that Locke thought he recognised him because he knew his sisters (who I don't even remember ever even traded a word with him. Would have been happier if we'd actually gotten to know them earlier) was really disappointing. And the fact that the reason for their actions was for something the cappa did years previously and mightve been vaguely mentioned (I honestly don't know if it was) earlier in the book was even more disappointing.
But other than that I really liked the book. Locke is probably one of my favourite protagonists now.
That moment at around 80% in the book when one of the main characters went to get some clothes. Those are 45 minutes of my life that could have been spent on doing something...fun.
Hahahaha, I felt similarly 🤣
Hahahah Exactly how I felt!
It was the first time i felt bad about wasting my time reading a book 😅
Unreal
The athlete was also the best friend of the guy that called the game and he killed his friend because of it. I feel like that story showcased the lack of loyalty in camorr which made the bonds with the bastards so much more amazing
I’m glad you liked that part! I didn’t think it showcased the loyalty element personally, but that’s ok 😊
Elliot Brooks its possible im digging too deep into it but its my fav book and i love locke and jean so much. I love how you can share your opinion honestly without putting the book down. I for one didnt love mistborn or vin as a protagonist but at least we can agree that kaldin stormblessed and geralt and dandelion are all amazing characters :)
I felt underwhelmed with the GB books because of the praise I had heard of them before reading them. They got my expectations a little high. Many put GB in the same sentence as First Law, and I just can’t say I enjoyed it that much.
By the end of the book I appreciated it more because that’s when I got invested in the characters. I really enjoyed the scene of Locke holding the Grey king and how that tied together. When I moved into the later books I enjoyed the series more. I suppose it’s just because I got more invested in the duo as it goes on, and that’s really what the books are, it’s miscast as a fantasy epic imo.
That said, I am interested in the nuggets Lynch laid out in this world and he has expanded on it in the later books and I really hope he continues to as the series goes on.
I’m glad you’ve found yourself growing to care for the characters throughout your reading! I agree that this feels quite different to me than First Law. Perhaps more plot emphasis was put into GB, but man is the character development great in First Law 😄
Elliot Brooks and honestly it only gets better after the first trilogy. I’m not giving up on you checking out Best Served Cold, lol. Just yesterday I found a different hardcover than I had seen before for only $6.
You articulated very well the same reasons I did not like this book. I was so excited about it because of all the positive reviews and stars on Goodreads...big disappointment for me.
The fact that people who just saw him hours ago do not recognize him when he puts on a costume is ridiculous.
Love the review, just wanted to point out something at the end.
**SPOILERS**
It is not true that the Gray King had no reference on how strong Jean was; the Gray King knows it was him who defeated single handedly both his sisters, warriors SO GOOD that they were the last line of defense of the previous Capa, his personal guards.
Hearing about something and seeing it first hand are two different things. He wasn’t there to witness Jean kill his sisters.
Finally I feel understood! I'm going into SPOILERS NOW!!!
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I knew I couldn't be the only person who thought that the spider resolution was bad. I even think it's terrible, because, she was supposed to be this super intelligent and sneaky character, and an old lady with experience. Why, oh why would she stay alone in a room with him?! She was so stupid! Same with the bone mage. He was like: I know your last name is not real, but I have your name. And I was like: his name is obviously not real either. Come on, man, you can't be that stupid, you're a super powerful wizard! But no, he was that stupid. I ended up not listening to the last two hours of the audiobook because that kind of thing frustrates me so much! I know the term Mary Sue is badly used most of the time, but I really think at the end Locke was a Mary Sue. Not the whole book, but at the end, because all the villains became stupid suddenly just to make him look clever or funny. It didn't feel earned. He didn't outwitted them, they became fools. That on top of everything else you said. The annyoing interludes (although I enjoyed the ones of them as kids too, I wished we could see more of that), and the long scene about the clothing... It was just frustrating. And it was sad, becuase I wanted to like this book so much, the premise sounded so cool! Ahhhh.... I just needed to say it, because you're the first person I see who share some of my thoughts at least to some degree XD.
Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy Lies of Locke Lamora. I quite liked it (4 stars). The world building is fantastic and it's a fun read imo
I finally finished this book and it doesn't get much better in the last 3/4. The author puts himself into the story as the protagonist, obviously, and he makes the exact same mistakes that his character is accused of; he doesn't think things through. SPOILER ALERT: i f you care...
One of my biggest grips about this story (right after the 5 year old master thief) is the mages and the magic system. The entire story hinges on the magic which we get so little explanation of that it might as well be gods walking the world. They can do almost anything until they can't. They are totally unstoppable until the appropriate time for them to make a mistake. The liquid magic system (soft isn't soft enough to describe it) is the pervue of the 'Bonds Magi of Carthane' the only mages in the world. They are all from this one city because they kill anyone who dares to use magic that doesn't join them. They have a total monopoly on magic and so they charge such ridiculous prices for their services that no one can really afford them. Certainly not for long. So... let me get this straight... you have 400+ demigods living togetehr in one city and they can't really do anything with thier awesome powers because no one can afford to pay them and none of them have any ambitions to, I don't know... rule the world? No? No ambition at all? They are content to stay in this one city, wringing their hands and saying 'Bwahahahaha" because they are just so awesome... but they are not gods, they are just like normal people... but they don't seem to have normal motives... and only kings can afford them but they are unstoppable and can do anything they want but then they only take contracts and they have great ethics about protecting the secrets of their clients... lesser beings who give these demigods gold are worth losing your magic over... Hmmm... Does this make sense on any level? No, but the author wanted magic to be cool and powerful and unstoppable and force the plot along.
Then you have the bloodsport... shark fighting, which we see kill the first time it is shown to us. The shark wins. Yet two characters that are pivotal to the entire plot did this for 8 years and never made a mistake. They use an alchemical lure called 'The Summons' to make the sharks come from all over and makes the sharks super aggressive so, it isn't even like they could train with little sharks and work up to it... no, it's totally chance... so a pair of twin girls just happen to survive together long enough to be infamous. This is another instance of unrealistic success like a 5 year old master thief.
Then you have a whole array of alchmical supplies for disguise but no one really knows that disguise is a serious art or that it could be used to steal? No one expecs disguise to be used to fool people...???
This whole world is chock full of contradictory ideas and poorly thought out 'clever concepts' that it is nauseating. Then there is the 'Friendship' of the main characters. It starts with 'I don't like him" then One punches the other, then the one who got punched finds out, the new kid had a tough life and then he says he's sorty and they are now best friends. I suppose you could say they did sort of act like friends but as to their inner feelings about one another who knows? There is so little character development and since they are all, with one exception master liars, how can WE trust anything they say? Now we are told they have been friends for more than 15 years, so fine, they are friends, but don't tell me about how they developed such a great friendship when it is just 'Off-Page' assumptions. I know more about the look of this city and the names of its districts and its politics and the names of the nobles and what they wear and what they eat than I do about the characters, which is why I don't like any of them. The best of them, Jean, is OK. That's It, OK. The rest are basically trash and when they get killed it means nothing. I can accept that it means something to the character on the page, but I don't really sympathize with him because it was so obviously coming that he is a total ass for not seeing it happening.
I would give this book a 2.5 out of 10 and that is only because it has a beginning, a high point, a low point, a plot and a conclusion. They aren't well orchestrated but at least it isn't left hanging. (I'm looking at you George R.R. Martin) I have no intention of reading the next two in the series. None. I don't recommend to anyone to read this, for any reason.
While I personally enjoyed the book when I read it back when it first came out, and can't really argue much with what you have to say about the book... except for one thing: I _really_ don't see it as "grimdark" at all. Sure, there appear to be a number of grimdark fans that are claiming it as such, but when I read Mark Lawrence's blog "Grimdark, we're nailing it down!" ( mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2017/08/grimdark-were-nailing-it-down.html ) it had a pretty low score. In that blog (which apparently used polling by a bunch of fans of the genre to find a consensus how grimdark various books are) it got a low score of 2.26 (the three highest scores were 4.72 for *Beyond* *Redemption* by Michael R Fletcher and 4.44 for *The* *Darkness* *That* *Comes* *Before* by R. Scott Bakker and in third 4.40 for *Prince* *of* *Thorns* by Mark Lawrence). Bakker's book easily deserved that score, I can attest to that! (I haven't read the other two.)
At the bottom end of the scale we find (in the very last place) *The* *Sword* *of* *Shannara* by Terry Brooks with 1.16, *The* *Pawn* *of* *Prophecy* by David Eddings with 1.26 and *Magician* by Raymond E Feist with 1.46. What I find interesting about those bottom three is that the Eddings book was in my _ELEMENTARY SCHOOL_ library (K-6 in my school district), and the other two were both in my Junior High School (7-9) library. Somehow I don't really think grimdark is an appropriate genre for children, especially not for elementary school kids, children who most of whom haven't even hit puberty yet. In fact, none of the traits of grimdark (aside from violence, which is pretty much a hallmark of 99% of all Fantasy literature, including the Narnia books -- which nobody better dare try calling grimdark -- possess in spades) can be found in the aforementioned Eddings, Brooks or Feist. Or Lynch (from my recollection, other than the amorality of thieving, but see below).
*Lies* *of* *Locke* *Lamora* is tied with N.K. Jemisin's *The* *Fifth* *Season* on points, and only once or twice have I seen that book referred to as grimdark, yet I've also seen it specifically described as "not grimdark." *Lord* *Foul's* *Bane* by Stephen R Donaldson scores even higher, at 3.18, and yet that is _most_ _assuredly_ _not_ _grimdark._ Perhaps the books of the "Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" could be categorised as grimdark, but not the three of "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever." As someone who has read those multiple times since the mid-to-late-80s, they just don't fit the mold. And even sillier (the much darker, much more grim novel) *Mistborn:* *the* *Final* *Empire* by Brandon Sanderson has a 1.97 on that ranking scale. Huh? What?
Hell, "The Wheel of Time" (which isn't even on that list) is _much_ more grimdark than Lynch or Donaldson (or Eddings, Feist or Brooks): it has tons of violence, amorality and is rather dystopian from the get go (it is an apocalyptic time period after all, and you can't get more dystopian than the freaking apocalypse). Even Tolkien could kinda be considered moreseo (talking spiders that plan on eating the dwarves, talking goblins and orcs that plan on eating the hobbits, Shelob, Ringwraiths, all of which are pretty violent, and rather dystopian). [For the record, I'm using the Google-returned definition: "Grimdark is a subgenre of speculative fiction with a tone, style, or setting that is particularly dystopian, amoral, or violent."] Sauron's and Saruman's armies have ravaged half of Middle Earth (with sentient beings that literally eat other sentient beings, that's pretty frakking dystopian and violent). Not to mention the amorality of what Saruman's orcs and Uruk-hai are doing to Fangorn Forest. Or the amorality of what Saruman and Grima did to the Shire. So why isn't "Lord of the Rings" considered grimdark?
About the only part of that definition that Lynch catches that most fantasy doesn't catch as much is "amoral," and that is only because the main protagonists are thieves (notice I refrain from calling them "heroes?"). I don't think that alone makes it grimdark. If that was the case, add a touch of magic to it and suddenly *Oliver* *Twist* is grimdark, and that just doesn't seem right.
What I think has happened here is that a bunch of fans of grimdark are grasping at straws and trying to claim everything under the sun as part of their favorite sub-genre (or at least the stuff they like), and calling it that as a way of bolstering their sub-genre in the eyes of those who pass on it or just don't like it. It's a way of saying "oh, you don't like grimdark? But you like {Book X} don't you? Well, _that's_ grimdark! So you really do already like grimdark, so now read this book!" That's what it seems like is happening here, people trying to appropriate all sorts of works of Fantasy (and I'm sure Science Fiction as well) Literature as "their own" aka grimdark.
But other than that (and I know my patent-pending Wall of Text makes it seem I'm worked up) I liked your review, and agreed with much of what you said, even if I enjoyed the book at the time I read it. Oh, and I actually see Locke as basically being the Fantasy world version of Han Solo, take that for what it's worth. I really don't see much difference between their personalities, just their actual activities differ (due to settings of course). And Solo doesn't even place in my Top 25 favorite Star Wars characters, so...
I'll hopefully be rereading this book sometime later this year, as I've been meaning to read book three, and I don't fully remember what happened in one and two, not well enough to just jump in to the newest.
Will you be reading book 2? Red Seas Under Red Skies
Nope!
@@ebnovels I'm not even upset at that😂 While I enjoyed the Lies of Locke Lamora, I hated book 2.
Alas, continue to prosper Ms.Elliot Brooks!!
Well thanks! Same to you 😄
I liked Locke overall but yeah the waiter thing kind of caught me off gaurd too 😂 but his chaotic way of going through life and problem solving was just so entertaining lol
I just finished the book and you said aloud what is going on in my head since I put it down. Really glad I read it, it has wonderful world building. I'd love to go and visit Camorr, but couldn't care less for the characters. One think was that they kept repeating how smart Locke was when I found he kept doing stupid things and not see the obvious most of the time. And yes, please give me a back story for the Grey King. I was expecting turmoil, emotions, sadness and revenge..but nothing. As said happy I read it but will not continue the serie. Thank you for your review :D
I am enjoying the series.. but i agree with all your points 100%
I've bounced off of this book so many times haha
Ah, not a fan?
I couldn't finish the third book, the characters made me want to bash my head into a wall with all of the extremely forced and unnatural "witticism" and, just in my opinion, a forced feeling of trying to get you to like and think the characters were funny and likeable when I could never find myself believing in either
I dnf'd the book because all og the reasons in your review, but you said it better. I sat hier thinkin, yes to everything. I so strongly disliked the flashbacks I just could not take it any more.
The humour of this book was just perfect.🤣 The bromance between Locke & Jean was just chefs kiss👍. I have had many rereads of this book and I know the flashbacks so well now that they don't kick me out of the tale. In the altercation between the Spider and Locke, think back to who struck who first. I would have punched her too. I bet that long poisoned knitting needle really hurt his throat. Poor guy. 😉
Hahaha, the punch was amusing, just too easy for me after being led to believe she was so intelligent.
I've been going through the novel, and I've been really enjoying it so far! It's been fun to experience.
Good!
Everything you said!!!! I just could not get into that novel! I ending up dnfing it. I wanted to love it because so many people love it. 🤷♀️
Ah, sorry you didn’t care for it! I feel ya, though.
I respect being subjective but I think a lot of your dislike for the characters is just them being fundamentally flawed intentionally along with expecting them to make the implied correct decisions or courses of action. But ill agree the way some situations were resolved made me take a step back and be like ok dude
Yeah, but I guess for me I just legitimately didn’t like them. Idk, there are other books where I don’t like the characters, yet I still find them interesting or want to follow them. Here, I found myself kind of annoyed with them 😅
I think the impulsive nature of Locke is burdensome but I wonder if it's meant to be. He doesn't care about the consequences to other people sometimes even his own friends. He gets away with it by relying on the few friends he has because they came from crippling backgrounds and maybe don't know their own worth. I wonder if the character is based on someone the author knows.
Grim Dark "light" for me but I get the feeling that you are not a fan of the genre in general. Can't think of something you really liked that fit the mold. As I mentioned in the previous video, it WAS tough to get into. And I absolutely remember saying to myself, "not another flashback!" I, however, ended up loving the characters and the GBs were what kept me reading the series. Request: Do a "Top 5 Grim Dark Fantasy Novels that I Love" video. PS. I don't think you were being overly harsh. It just wasn't your cup of tea. I like Earl Grey, no sugar, you are more of a Chamomile with honey type of person. PPS. I don't really like Earl Grey but you get the point. ;)
Haha, I do get the point! You know, I don’t care for most grimdark I read, so you’re not wrong about that, but I did really enjoy First Law. I think I’m general it’s a genre that takes chances, and most of those chances don’t work for me 😅
I agree that the author derails from the main story really quick which confused me at the beginning. I really recommend the audiobook which I loved.
Yeah, I quite liked the narrator :)
good review... i agree the attempts to get fancy clothes at the end felt out of place and too much of a pause of action in a slightly tedious way.. also i did feel that the punching of the lady Spider in the teeth was too easy, and that the same lady gives him full pardon was unbelievably convenient. I also think that the Gray King was an overly simple character that could have used a lot more depth, buuuut I believe it’s one of those cases where the author knew that he had better villains in mind for later on in the series that the Gray King simply suffered from being the first level mini boss.
All in all the book is entertaining and written well, started Red Seas today... has an intriguing start and am excited about reading. =]
Hey i have a question
Can you please tell me the name of the book series on the left of the screen which are 12 in number and are white in colour their art style seems very good and that interests me
Also the book series in the shelf below that which are multicolored
The numbered ones are Vagabond, the coloured ones are Vinland Saga I believe. Both mangas, both very good. 👍
@@robpaul7544 thanks man looking forward to buying them
Rob answered you, but just want to say that Vinland is amazing, and my hubby would tell you Vagabond is a little slower, but the art is beautiful and the story is fantastic :)
@@ebnovels wow!!got a reply form you
Btw thank you for the info
Great review, I think the princess bride is a good comparison crossed with horrific moments. It was a bit jarring for me too.
As a side comment; if this book had been written in chronological order where all the main character chapters were actually put into the order they happened instead of the jarring jumps from present to past and further past etc. it would have been a marginally better book. Not good, but decent.
On God! I DNF'ed this book at Chapter Two because I couldn't stand the structure. One of the biggest turn offs is that he includes flashbacks in the first chapters when you actually DON'T CARE about them. I wish he took a more linear approach,rather than screwing up the pacing and lowering the stakes in the chapters.
@@henrywayne5724 Right there with you. Still, I almost didn't get past the 5 year old master thief which I took to be an aurhor insert... you know, putting his d&d character thief into the book or some such. It really drained my batteries with all the eye rolling...
SPOILER!
Just finished this book and loved it! I think your criticisms are largely valid, but I will say that I think the Grey King was clearly made aware of Jean's combat prowess and therefore was genuinely nervous for his feigned arrival at the end. The fact that Jean single handedly killed his sisters would be enough to make him very fearful of him, I'd say.
I DNF-ed that book after 20 % and I felt so bad because many people who usually share my taste really love this book and I just didn't care. I hated the characters, I didn't care for the storytelling with all the flashbacks and the detailed description of the scenes...It was boring and annoying imo.
I feel exactly the same! I struggled through the first 75% of the book (it took a long time) and only really enjoyed the last 25%. I didn't particularly like any of the characters... especially Lock (it makes out he is so cunning but he does almost nothing smart throughout the whole book!). I did appreciate the writing and the world though - it is a very good book.... just not for me.
Somewhat unrelated but I’d love a spoiler chat on Lady of the Lake. Still dying for a debrief on that 😂😂
Ah, I know! I still need to do dedicated reviews for the last few 🙈
Yeah, you crazy. This is a fantastic book/series. 😁
Haha, glad you like it!
It’s funny how all the reasons you gave for not liking the book all that much I usually agree with.
And yet... I really love this book lol
Guess every rule does have an exception!
You’re right tho. If you don’t like fhese characters, there is NO WAY you’ll like the book that much.
I still love it though🤷🏽♀️
Ps: loved your earings!
Hi great review!! Happy weekend reading to u!! 😊📖💙💜
Happy reading to you!
Felt so bad for benjavier or whatever his name was. I was laughing so damn hard though
I really want to read this but my city's only bookstore doesn't have it 😔
Does your city have internet?
@@Cortisch yeah
Try Amazon or other online store or ask in your local store to order it for you.
Where do you live? If you’re in the US you can have my copy :)
@@ebnovels oh my gosh thanks for the offer, but I'm in Australia :') that's part of the issue, don't want to order it online because oh my gosh shipping costs are crazy 😬
Spoilers
My favorite part of the book is when Locke calls back the flashback when he's defeating the grey king. "I don't have to kill you, I just have to keep you here till Jean gets back"
this book is amazing go read it.