"When I genuinely Love someone or something, I celebrate what it is or what that person is in themselves, but at the same time, this is not in my own interest. If it is, it isn't Love, it is Manipulation of some sort." .... "So I would want to put Love back into the picture. And I observe that in Western culture over the last 200 years, Love has been systematically screened out. The old Faust Legend had as one of its' features, that when Faust makes a pact with the Devil, the deal is : You Must Not Love." "You'll get all kinds of other wonderful things, but you must not Love. And I think one of the reasons why the Faust legend has been so important in the modern world... is precisely because it reflects something profound about contemporary Western culture." Thank you for your brilliance and making my day!
@@DeepTalksTheology This quote made me reflect in our culture today on the costly spread of malignant narcissism, narcissistic rage, and narcissistic abuse (which does not apply only to looks as in the legend of Narcissus), but to any person’s manipulative behavior and speech intended to reduce another’s self-worth and feeling of safety, in order to control and cripple their victim - Who they claim to Love - while feeding their needs for superiority and entitlement. Love is replaced by manipulation. This sleight of hand has been ignored for decades and decades by friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, society and culture, and yes - Love is systematically screened out. Love is confused with one’s narcissistic needs for power and as a way to look good to society and be rewarded. They replace any empathy for the one they “love” with manipulation and control by their anger. The deep-seated insecurity, rage, and shame of the malignant narcissistic that is so common today belies the truth of Faust’s deal with the Devil : You can get anything you want (and at another’s cost) but - You Must Not Love. I hope other people can relate this discussion to problems afflicting society today.
I'm so so glad you did this! A couple of years ago when they were planning the Savannah Symposium with Iain McGilchrist and Jordan Peterson as speakers, I was trying to talk them into including N. T. Wright and Esther Meek to discuss together this idea of Loving to Know. N T Wright has a wonderful long essay in the First Things from February 2020 entitled Loving to Know in which he lays out a thesis very similar to Meek's and a history of thought very consonant with McGilchrist's summary in The Master and His Emissary. So much overlap! And you put it together. I'm so so happy:-)
thank you, Karen! I know the NT Wright article you refer to well. Esther is a new addition to my inner world but I'm really enjoying everything I've seen from her
@@DeepTalksTheology How can we get Jordan Peterson into this conversation? His order/chaos/ navigator maps right onto known, unknown and knower, so living a purposeful life is the same thing as loving to know.
‘Live life on the terms of the yet to be known.” This is the way, no kidding. “Invite the real”. Years later you will experience reality. Deep stuff here but accessible to change lives!
"When I genuinely Love someone or something, I celebrate what it is or what that person is in themselves, but at the same time, this is not in my own interest. If it is, it isn't Love, it is Manipulation of some sort." .... "So I would want to put Love back into the picture. And I observe that in Western culture over the last 200 years, Love has been systematically screened out. The old Faust Legend had as one of its' features, that when Faust makes a pact with the Devil, the deal is : You Must Not Love." "You'll get all kinds of other wonderful things, but you must not Love. And I think one of the reasons why the Faust legend has been so important in the modern world... is precisely because it reflects something profound about contemporary Western culture." Thank you for your brilliance and making my day!
thanks for this quotation, Kimberly
@@DeepTalksTheology This quote made me reflect in our culture today on the costly spread of malignant narcissism, narcissistic rage, and narcissistic abuse (which does not apply only to looks as in the legend of Narcissus), but to any person’s manipulative behavior and speech intended to reduce another’s self-worth and feeling of safety, in order to control and cripple their victim - Who they claim to Love - while feeding their needs for superiority and entitlement. Love is replaced by manipulation. This sleight of hand has been ignored for decades and decades by friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, society and culture, and yes - Love is systematically screened out. Love is confused with one’s narcissistic needs for power and as a way to look good to society and be rewarded. They replace any empathy for the one they “love” with manipulation and control by their anger. The deep-seated insecurity, rage, and shame of the malignant narcissistic that is so common today belies the truth of Faust’s deal with the Devil : You can get anything you want (and at another’s cost) but - You Must Not Love.
I hope other people can relate this discussion to problems afflicting society today.
I'm so so glad you did this! A couple of years ago when they were planning the Savannah Symposium with Iain McGilchrist and Jordan Peterson as speakers, I was trying to talk them into including N. T. Wright and Esther Meek to discuss together this idea of Loving to Know. N T Wright has a wonderful long essay in the First Things from February 2020 entitled Loving to Know in which he lays out a thesis very similar to Meek's and a history of thought very consonant with McGilchrist's summary in The Master and His Emissary. So much overlap! And you put it together. I'm so so happy:-)
thank you, Karen! I know the NT Wright article you refer to well. Esther is a new addition to my inner world but I'm really enjoying everything I've seen from her
@@DeepTalksTheology My conversation with her will publish on Friday morning.
@@DeepTalksTheology How can we get Jordan Peterson into this conversation? His order/chaos/ navigator maps right onto known, unknown and knower, so living a purposeful life is the same thing as loving to know.
7:20 .....the question is what are we going to do with that? Great question!
‘Live life on the terms of the yet to be known.” This is the way, no kidding.
“Invite the real”. Years later you will experience reality.
Deep stuff here but accessible to change lives!
Quoted accurately below, but capitalizations on Love (and Manipulation) are my own.