EV vs ICE politics mentioned. Someone once commented on it being like the "VHS BETAMAX" format wars. But I think the difference is more dramatic than that, so I liken it to the "VHS" vs NETFLIX" war, overstepping DVD and Blueray, because the difference between a 100 year old technology and an EV is huge. Not only are EVs better to drive, and include more capabilities for safety and comfort, but their source of power is so universal, that everyone has it at home. That is the reason I champion EVs for most private and much business use. No need to go find gas when you can just plug it in where you park it at night. As DC fast chargers multiply, longer trips will be taken for granted as well. But perhaps even more attractive is the fact that such a ubiquitous power source can be generated from Oil, Gas, Nuclear, hydro, geothermal, water currents, solar and wind, and yet it's all the same at the other end, so we as users don't have to worry about how it's generated, as long as it is there. Anything else, such as natural gas, hydrogen, still requires that the driver go and find some to fill up on, no matter what the price at the time, or how far you have to go out of your way, adding even more traffic to the roads. EVs fix a lot of problems, so it is perplexing to me why so many want to keep pushing for other tech which has less promise, even as EVs get better and cheaper. There may be use cases where hydrogen makes more sense, but those will be few, expensive, and dangerous as has been demonstrated so far, so the reason had better be good. But if I still can't fill up at home, I'll pass.
@@jasonriddell You're camping. What the hell would you need Netflix for? Towing range would be fine for a Silverado EV, they have the battery capacity. But they are costly, as all new tech is. I remember when nobody ever thought they would own a cell phone, because they were just too expensive. Give it time.
I'm really glad to see content from the Everything Electric Vancouver event. For someone like me, who's mostly homebound, being able to catch these events online is such a wonderful experience. I really hope more of this kind of content becomes available in the future. One thing I find unfortunate is that the live chats or discussions seem to be one-time events-if you miss them, they're gone. It would be great if there were more ways to access those conversations later on. As for the issue of not having enough cameras or equipment, I would personally prefer having two separate recordings with fixed cameras over trying to get two or three different angles from a single event. Even simple, straightforward recordings would go a long way in making these events more accessible to people like me.
Speaking of Tariffs? I wonder how many people realize that the only reason solar is so expensive in Canada today? Is because there is a 300% import tariff on Chinese solar panels and cells. You can thank Heir Harper for that one.
@@corradoalamanni179 Excuse me? Im off grid in Saskatchewan. The only time my generator ran last year? I was too sick to go clean the panels off after a snow storm for two days. Solar works just fine up here. In fact when its -30C out on a sunny day? My panels are producing 25% more power than they are rated for. Solar is much more efficient in the cold.
excellent, being able to catch these events online is such a wonderful experience. I really hope more of this kind of content becomes available in the future
Totally agree that there needs to be a regulatory agency for EV chargers. 1) Is it working. 2) is it providing the Kw advertised? 3) Is it charging fairly? etc.
IN BC Canada GAS PUMPS are NOT "regulated" for up time they are certified to PUMP as much OR MORE then what they show on the display in the same way a butchers scale is certified my point being is "government regulation like petrol pumps" WILL NOT bring about better up time PERFORMANCE
If the industry can bring back small cheap movie theaters with a bunch of level 2 chargers that'll be something that might work, or like the guy said restaurants that has chargers on their lot so people can eat while their vehicle charge.
For anybody with a driveway there is little need for the much discussed charging network. We bought a used 2019 Nissan Leaf and charge it at home by plugging it into a standard wall outlet.
The range of an ICE truck is reduced if towing a trailer as it is in cold weather. We simply experience less anxiety with the familiar and available petrol stations. Although having driven a Citroen Dyane across Dartmoor late at night and realised my petrol gauge was hovering on empty, I recognise that range anxiety isn't just about EVs.
last spring did a Winnipeg to thunder bay run after work left @ midnight friday to find all the gas stations closed but a number of Tesla EV stations "open" for business
grew up in Victoria and later Vancouver was there LAST summer and again this summer and the INCREASE in visible chargers is impressive even NOT needing them I am finding them all over this last time and I expect even MORE next year plus the BC Hydro ones where at EVERY rest stop I stopped at except one and CHEAP AS to boot
Hi Robert. Fantastic episode, again. Regarding your comment on lack of staff to produce quality content from your recorded on-stage content. Have you thought about crowd sourcing that portion of your production? Many of us would appreciate being allowed to help & possibly we could assist with editing, maybe, if output is labelled appropriately. So much excellent content you could share. Seems almost a waste not to.
Well done Robert when your guest said about the range of the Leaf I thought you might have gone full 4 Yorkshire men on him. 80 miles you were lucky I had a Mitsubishi imev
80 miles is 120 to 140 KMs and the LEAF MK1 had more range then the iMiev got to say the iMiev was a "go cart" and it was always a giggle to drive it around plus I still have the sales promo USB business card from buying one NEW
Good discussion, thanks for sharing this. Totally agree, hydrogen is a no-go for cars, charging at home is just too convenient;) H2 might have a niche role for long distance trucking and rail, but may prove vital for aviation.
Do try to be serious. Hydrogen will be the main driver for EVs and HGVs. You just have to factor in that Robert has a certain idée fixe against hydrogen. Which is fair enough but wrong. As we'll all see fairly soon.
@@t1n4444hydrogen for personal vehicles is waning even after massive government investment. Filling has always been fiddly (freezing connectors, issues with stations being unable to dispense even when fuel is available) and stations are now closing permanently with regularity and never existed in practical density outside California. I don't think it is likely at all that hydrogen will play a significant role in personal vehicles. I'm prepared to be surprised, but it would not make sense to choose an FCEV even if green hydrogen was readily available since the same energy for making that hydrogen would take a BEV further, so it is guaranteed to be more expensive to drive an FCEV unless the free market doesn't work.
@@t1n4444 lots of word salad to say "I don't get the cheap option and pushing the expensive impractical option" there is a reason shell energy is closing there H2 stations around the globe and Toyota is facing lawsuits from current owners for towing and hauling it MIGHT make sense but for private cars it is an expensive and inconvenient energy source H2 + carbon capture "syn fuels" would be more likely to have uses then gas form Hydrogen
The fact the Red Dwarf crew haven't all been knighted anyway, is a blight on the honours system to be honest. Services to being funny alone should be enough. Or at least a lesser gong of some kind.
Audience question was incorrect in its preface that gasoline pickups don't lose mileage when they are hauling heavy loads. That would defy laws of physics. You need the same amount of power whether you use gas or electricity, and the loss in range is the same. It's just that large fuel tanks give you more range than the Ford Lighting had in its battery pack, so it's a smaller percentage with gas. As battery capacity improves, the difference will be negligible.
I often found on long trips, delivering furniture, i used more fuel driving back empty than i did driving out full. The difference in fuel consumption between empty and full, was completely negated by the changes in my driving, because of the goods being in the vehicle or not. I have never driven an EV so i don't have any experience. Do you think it is possible that there is a greater difference in fuel consumption between empty and full for EVs than diesel?
@@robinhood4640 if your delivering is done with a box truck, the main difference in fuel consumption, EV or ICE is in the aerodynamics. So you have bad mileage already, whatever you do. A pickup truck hauling a big box trailer has larger drag than a pickup truck alone. If you are pulling a low slung trailer, say bed height, it's aero drag is potentially much better than a horse trailer. The weight has an impact that you can somewhat mitigate with your driving style. And if the weight is furniture you want to be careful with, there you have it! slower acceleration, longer braking, slower turning, even lower speed on the highway, and you've got your hypermiling creds!
@@martinboucher7406 Absolutely, that is exactly what was going on. My question was; Do you think it is possible that there is a greater difference in fuel consumption between empty and full for EVs than diesel? My thoughts are that the difference in efficiency between the two, is having an effect on the difference between empty and full. Electricity is far more efficient than diesel, so every increase in mass will be seen as increased electricity used. Whereas diesel is so inefficient that some of the mass will be unnoticed at the tank, because they will be absorbed by variations in the losses. I have driven many diesel and petrol vehicles and depending on engine size, and gear ratios, the difference between empty and full will be seen to a lesser or greater degree. Also the proportion of the total mass to the payload will contribute to the variation. I don't have any problem with the idea that EVs show a greater difference than diesel between empty and full, but it would be nice to know if it is true.
@@martinboucher7406 Thanks for replying, but you are not answering my question. Is there a difference between the proportional increase in fuel consumption between EVs and ICE between empty and loaded? My thoughts are that Diesel vehicles are designed to run loaded, therefore they are even less efficient when empty. EVs are so efficient it makes little difference. So it is more of an increase in losses when empty, that reduces the difference between empty and full.
Hydrogen (H2) has an economic and application problem. It's no good for home heating and cooking, having way less energy value than the fuel it would largely replace - methane. It produces NOx in combustion, so it pollutes. It's also less safe than methane. There's also no mass, clean infrastructure. It will also cost just as much, if not more, than the fuels it could replace, in the home and transport -petrol/gasoline and diesel. Yes, there are H2 Fuel Cell vehicles to consider but they are way too expensive.... Ok, I'm writing this and listening too, and a person has approached the mic to comment and said virtually the same thing. Maybe H2 has a purpose in some form - helping to make steel, for example, but I don't see it feasibly contributing to the zero emission future in commercial, domestic heating and any kind of road and rail transport, and I'm aware that there is the odd H2 train in the world. Shipping maybe, though thorium nuclear would be better. Airships..? Err... No. It's niche. EDIT: Completely forgot to mention the thing I first wanted to say - Thank you Robert and TFCS team for showing some output from Everything Electric events that people can't get to. I'm coming to Farnborough, UK (35 miles up the road from me) this year. That'll be the 4th time. Bringing more Newbies with me, as usual.
the ONLY "viable" H2 as a fuel use I have heard is combining H2 with captured carbon to create a "SYN FUEL" for long haul aviation or heavy Maritime type of uses BYD already make shipping can batteries for coastal freight ships that get swapped out at the port like a cargo container could see the same battery used for heavy rail in routes where electrification wont happen
Hydrogen is a very important industrial component now and mostly made from methane. Petrochemical companies would love to make more hydrogen and pretend that carbon capture will work.
we had battery swapping for forklifts in the 80s and a FCEV forky does NOT have longer run time then the battery versions - seen and worked on both and LPG/Diesel forkies
The solution to lv2 charging is to have them at work for a cheap/free cost. I know a few oil head ppl who bought ev bc they got free charging at work. This shld have been rolled out massively from the start. Solves the apartment problem too.
should be rolled out into every parking lot I imagine Hydro installing and managing them AND taking the payment for there use for a NO/LOW cost to the property owners
Tesla's charging network was designed for Teslas. The NACS connector will soon be everywhere, but the chargers have other issues. One is that their cables are too short to reach many other brands of EVs, and so need to be lengthened, and the other is that they were designed for 400v architecture, and many newer EVs are based on 800v. This means that a 400v Tesla charger can never charge one of these cars at their fastest rate, and charging will take longer.
Tesla V4 chargers already take care of all of those "issues" and some "legacy" charge locations are relocating a few cabinets at the end of the row for NON teslas / other side cars like Hyundai ioniq5 /Mach E they moved the cabinets to the other end of the space and turned it sideways so a Tesla would NOSE in past the cabinet and having it sideways allows ONE cabinet to "service" two stalls on the end already deployed at a supercharger station in surrey BC along with V4 cabinets
I’ve a feeling that the Provincial subsidy on new EV's will continue in Québec, the provincial government owns Hydro Québec who produce a surplus of power which they need to use. Also, the main EV charging company in the province is Circuit Électrique again the government owns or partly own the company ! 😅. More EV’s on the road is a win win situation for them. 😮
unless something has/will change they already announced the run out of the rebates "due to budgetary" reasons and like BC there already is high penetration in those 2 markets places like Manitoba and Alberta NEED to KEEP them as there are LOW penetration and LOW used EV cars available
Gas stations have their issues too. Pumps are often out of order. Bad gas can happen. Putting diesel in a gas engine happen. They don't work after hurricanes because they can't get refueled. In the last hurricane Rivian trucks just started right up and had no problems. They are designed for off road use and are water tight. Gas engines are ruined when submerged. Towing cuts range on all vehicles regardless of what powers them. Usually cuts mpg by half.
Wait til Canadians see their friends and family in Australia enjoying high quality Chinese EVs at a reasonable price. Eventually they will ask their politicians why can't we have this? And their answer of we need to protect auto jobs in Ontario won't fly with most. Especially when the 100% tariff adds at least $30K more for a car
keep in mind in a few years nothing BUT EVS will be available and the US makers are PLEADING with the US government to scrap there emissions standards so they can DROP EV production and go back to profitable large SUV sales Europe cancelled there planned EV tariffs after getting price agreements from the CHINESE foreign trade ambassador
Audience q re Tesla Superchargers is just confused. Tesla hasn’t made any change to SuC other than to shake up the operation behind the scenes. Since then the network has continued to operate excellently and has also continued to grow.
I believe we NEED to start seeing level 2 chargers in almost every parking lot at high enough numbers someone can leave a car over night / all day plugged in and NOT have to move / incur standing fees I picture going to the grocery -> plug in for the hour or so then to the mall -> plug in again ETC having plug ins everywhere would go a LONG ways towards apartment dwellers and other can't charge at home types
The Atlantic region is sorrowfully behind the rest of Canada jn charging infrastructure and EV sales. Unfortunately reaching "critical mass"will be further delayed as a result. The 100 % tariffs on cheap imports is extremely frustrating. Hopefully the upcoming Federal election will address this issue.
@@Trashed20659 can NOT order the CX30 OR the polestar II only ones available are already landed in Canada this from Volvo / polestar Vancouver the week after everything electric show the C40-CX40 both are made in northern Europe and allowed with the polestar 3 from Korea even Tesla is scrambling to source cars NOT FROM CHINA and hold there pricing in Canada
What rarely if ever gets discussed are the laws of physics and thermodynamics. These laws rule modern civilization. Good example is the comment on hydrogen. His be nice to every idea approach is how we got into this sad situation. The laws of physics explaining hydrogen make it clear that much of the hype hope and billions of dollars flowing into hydrogen are a waste of time money and resources. Hopium laced projects at this point in our struggle to reduce, eliminate, remove flammable fossils greenhouse gases pollution are counterproductive. We know what must be done. We have everything required to move faster. There's no theological supreme judicial junta that can strike down these laws. Electrify everything ASAP
chinese ev tariffs? its not complicated at all,..we all committed to the free trade agreement to level the playing field and now we are not being allowed access to it to save 10K jobs for overpaid Unions 41 Million people contributed 10K benefitted pretty simple
Talk about the $TRILLIONS national electrical grid and its need of $100sBILLIONS in cashflow. Because when the sunshines the cashflow is dead. With rooftop PV and BVs oversized battery.
When I use fast chargers on my road trips, I am not interested in Tesla chargers or gas station chargers, they are all way more expensive than BC Hydro chargers, which, at 35 cents per kWhr, are still six times the price I pay at home during night time charging. I get that fast chargers are expensive to install, but why is the cost to charge between 2 and 6 six time the cost to charge at home?
only by people having there riches put in risk and "lackys" hating on anyone telling them what to do" - same people that argue we should have "ignored" the "plandemic" all while forgetting the death toll
as far as "bad" charger availability and down time right now in MOST markets DC fast chargers are NOT profitable due to such LOW EV volumes gas pump goes DOWN OR worse a station runs out of gasoline they LOOSE big business EV plugs go down and days might pass before the business "notices" at all as MORE and MORE EV's make up the total fleet more the EV chargers will be integral to the business revenue and they will NATURALLY keep them in better operation
Ha!!..... An absolute CLASSIC UA-cam comment from someone who hasn't the first idea what he's talking about.... It's just laughable, really isn't it.... Are you arrogant and egocentric... or, just dim..... !?!? .... or, maybe just a troll.....
Tl:dr Hydrogen ? Combustible Hydrogen. ? Really! Nooo! . (Not for Passenger cars) Your first audience commentator was ON the money . Your 2nd commentator was Wrong - NO charging was off loaded by Tesla - he should have been corrected : that would have been good journalism .Your guest got there and was reluctantly honest under pressure . Good Journalism is about exhausting research and deep understanding of ALL technologies such that you may opine authoritatively on what IS actually best for any given application . That is, unless you are a political shill who feels he must be seen to support all players for Income and exposure gain. Thats HOW being an EvEvangelist works. Fact: BEV is the ONLY alternative to ICE Fact: TESLA is operating in a different league of implementation & innovation . At the moment almost every other BEV is paying rent . Prove me wrong. RANT OVER (for now) 😊❤
Heres the thing EVs don't address.. overconsumption. Overconsumption of energy #1 overconsumption of stuff #2. To tackle the climate crisis this has to be reigned
@@andymccabe6712 Sure, I was free to criticize, and he is free to have an opinion. I am merely saying he was not as UNBIASED as he was presented to be.
Not sure about _'across the world',_ Tesla's charging network in Europe was restricted access till a couple of years back, even now only a subset of their charger network is open to non-Tesla cars. It's more a case of Tesla recognising that there are more non-Tesla chargers available across Europe, that all cars including Teslas use the same CCS2 connector and so Tesla cars are not locked into Tesla charging infrastructure. Hence the market dynamics of pricing and opening up to all cars would work better for them in a fairly competitive market space.
@GruffSillyGoat Just because there was a delay until SC network was available to all cars doesn't diminish Tesla's work 'around the world' if they hadn't done it, don't believe for a second that the others would even be close to where they are now! Even though they are way behind tesla on easy and reliability.
@richf3654 - respectfully I disagree. Tesla in Europe, and many other parts of the world, launched with a proprietary charger network based on the US specific design one that could not handle the higher power three-phase AC available in many other parts of the world. Whilst this worked for Tesla cars the rest of the market just got with developing a standards based solution (CCS2), this supported higher charging power and so faster rates. It is this standard that took off for charging, outside of North America, allowing cars to fast charge and with the introduction of DC charging (CCS2 combo) leaped over Tesla's ability introducing rapid charging. In the end Tesla, with the release of the model 3, changed to CCS2 on their non-North American cars and chargers due to CCS2's dominance and better features. In terms easy of use, Tesla is no different from other CCS based networks offering both _charge and go_ and _pay at the charger_ based services. Reliability, again both Tesla and other chargers were poor in Europe in the early days, but today have improved significantly; although Tesla does not hold pole position in this respect. indeed European governments are introducing legislation requiring all charging operators to assure 99% reliability. Even in North America Tesla dropped their proprietary (CHAdeMo can derived) signalling protocal for that of the CCS standard, supported on V3 and V4 chargers, with tthe territory coalescing on the Tesla connector format as the NACS standard (using the CCS comunications protocol) . The experience of Tesla in the US is not replicated in other parts of the world where Tesla's charging network has followed rather than defined.
You might have a small crew, but your production is outstanding. Photography, editing, audio it's all top notch.
Aren't Canadians nice people.
@@robinwhitebeam4386no. Rhey act like they are. They are worst than americans too be honest. Americans are not that bad.
Thanks Robert for a great talk, needs to be longer, I enjoy these panel discussions.
As a two time attendee of your Vancouver shows, I wanted to tell you and your fine crew that your efforts are very much appreciated!
EV vs ICE politics mentioned. Someone once commented on it being like the "VHS BETAMAX" format wars. But I think the difference is more dramatic than that, so I liken it to the "VHS" vs NETFLIX" war, overstepping DVD and Blueray, because the difference between a 100 year old technology and an EV is huge. Not only are EVs better to drive, and include more capabilities for safety and comfort, but their source of power is so universal, that everyone has it at home. That is the reason I champion EVs for most private and much business use. No need to go find gas when you can just plug it in where you park it at night. As DC fast chargers multiply, longer trips will be taken for granted as well. But perhaps even more attractive is the fact that such a ubiquitous power source can be generated from Oil, Gas, Nuclear, hydro, geothermal, water currents, solar and wind, and yet it's all the same at the other end, so we as users don't have to worry about how it's generated, as long as it is there. Anything else, such as natural gas, hydrogen, still requires that the driver go and find some to fill up on, no matter what the price at the time, or how far you have to go out of your way, adding even more traffic to the roads. EVs fix a lot of problems, so it is perplexing to me why so many want to keep pushing for other tech which has less promise, even as EVs get better and cheaper. There may be use cases where hydrogen makes more sense, but those will be few, expensive, and dangerous as has been demonstrated so far, so the reason had better be good. But if I still can't fill up at home, I'll pass.
and like NETFLIX totally fails in some use cases LIKE camping - not internet NO netflix and EV TOWING range CURRENTLY is sub par
@@jasonriddell You're camping. What the hell would you need Netflix for? Towing range would be fine for a Silverado EV, they have the battery capacity. But they are costly, as all new tech is. I remember when nobody ever thought they would own a cell phone, because they were just too expensive. Give it time.
Brilliant news! I’m disabled and cannot get to the live shows, so being able to see the discussions is a very welcome update. Thank you.
I'm really glad to see content from the Everything Electric Vancouver event. For someone like me, who's mostly homebound, being able to catch these events online is such a wonderful experience. I really hope more of this kind of content becomes available in the future.
One thing I find unfortunate is that the live chats or discussions seem to be one-time events-if you miss them, they're gone. It would be great if there were more ways to access those conversations later on.
As for the issue of not having enough cameras or equipment, I would personally prefer having two separate recordings with fixed cameras over trying to get two or three different angles from a single event. Even simple, straightforward recordings would go a long way in making these events more accessible to people like me.
Great idea to live stream the talks! Look forward to seeing you next year in Oz
Speaking of Tariffs? I wonder how many people realize that the only reason solar is so expensive in Canada today? Is because there is a 300% import tariff on Chinese solar panels and cells. You can thank Heir Harper for that one.
Also how North in the world Canada is
@@corradoalamanni179 Excuse me? Im off grid in Saskatchewan. The only time my generator ran last year? I was too sick to go clean the panels off after a snow storm for two days. Solar works just fine up here. In fact when its -30C out on a sunny day? My panels are producing 25% more power than they are rated for. Solar is much more efficient in the cold.
excellent, being able to catch these events online is such a wonderful experience. I really hope more of this kind of content becomes available in the future
I was at your show in Vancouver, what a beautiful city!
Again a great video . Looking forward to Sydney show again . tickets and hotel booked.
Totally agree that there needs to be a regulatory agency for EV chargers.
1) Is it working.
2) is it providing the Kw advertised?
3) Is it charging fairly?
etc.
IN BC Canada GAS PUMPS are NOT "regulated" for up time
they are certified to PUMP as much OR MORE then what they show on the display in the same way a butchers scale is certified
my point being is "government regulation like petrol pumps" WILL NOT bring about better up time PERFORMANCE
thanks Robert
Great point Glen! 21:19
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for sharing.
If the industry can bring back small cheap movie theaters with a bunch of level 2 chargers that'll be something that might work, or like the guy said restaurants that has chargers on their lot so people can eat while their vehicle charge.
nice show
Really enjoyed this 👍🏾
For anybody with a driveway there is little need for the much discussed charging network. We bought a used 2019 Nissan Leaf and charge it at home by plugging it into a standard wall outlet.
i loved the early videos from the first on the road shows.
The range of an ICE truck is reduced if towing a trailer as it is in cold weather. We simply experience less anxiety with the familiar and available petrol stations. Although having driven a Citroen Dyane across Dartmoor late at night and realised my petrol gauge was hovering on empty, I recognise that range anxiety isn't just about EVs.
last spring did a Winnipeg to thunder bay run after work left @ midnight friday to find all the gas stations closed but a number of Tesla EV stations "open" for business
The 40 station in Quebec he mentioned is St Louis De Blanford. I’ve reviewed this site on my channel. Quebec has charging literally everywhere
grew up in Victoria and later Vancouver
was there LAST summer and again this summer and the INCREASE in visible chargers is impressive even NOT needing them I am finding them all over this last time
and I expect even MORE next year
plus the BC Hydro ones where at EVERY rest stop I stopped at except one and CHEAP AS to boot
We where at Excel, there was so much we wanted to look at, and two test drives, we had very little time to sit down and watch the discussions
Hi Robert. Fantastic episode, again. Regarding your comment on lack of staff to produce quality content from your recorded on-stage content. Have you thought about crowd sourcing that portion of your production? Many of us would appreciate being allowed to help & possibly we could assist with editing, maybe, if output is labelled appropriately. So much excellent content you could share. Seems almost a waste not to.
Well done Robert when your guest said about the range of the Leaf I thought you might have gone full 4 Yorkshire men on him. 80 miles you were lucky I had a Mitsubishi imev
80 miles is 120 to 140 KMs and the LEAF MK1 had more range then the iMiev
got to say the iMiev was a "go cart" and it was always a giggle to drive it around plus I still have the sales promo USB business card from buying one NEW
Good discussion, thanks for sharing this. Totally agree, hydrogen is a no-go for cars, charging at home is just too convenient;) H2 might have a niche role for long distance trucking and rail, but may prove vital for aviation.
Do try to be serious.
Hydrogen will be the main driver for EVs and HGVs.
You just have to factor in that Robert has a certain idée fixe against hydrogen.
Which is fair enough but wrong.
As we'll all see fairly soon.
@@t1n4444hydrogen for personal vehicles is waning even after massive government investment. Filling has always been fiddly (freezing connectors, issues with stations being unable to dispense even when fuel is available) and stations are now closing permanently with regularity and never existed in practical density outside California.
I don't think it is likely at all that hydrogen will play a significant role in personal vehicles.
I'm prepared to be surprised, but it would not make sense to choose an FCEV even if green hydrogen was readily available since the same energy for making that hydrogen would take a BEV further, so it is guaranteed to be more expensive to drive an FCEV unless the free market doesn't work.
@@t1n4444 lots of word salad to say "I don't get the cheap option and pushing the expensive impractical option"
there is a reason shell energy is closing there H2 stations around the globe and Toyota is facing lawsuits from current owners
for towing and hauling it MIGHT make sense but for private cars it is an expensive and inconvenient energy source
H2 + carbon capture "syn fuels" would be more likely to have uses then gas form Hydrogen
@@jasonriddell
Why not contact those manufacturers who are engaged in developing hydrogen fuel cell cars and let them know where they're going wrong?
The fact the Red Dwarf crew haven't all been knighted anyway, is a blight on the honours system to be honest. Services to being funny alone should be enough. Or at least a lesser gong of some kind.
Arise Sir Robert.🧐
Audience question was incorrect in its preface that gasoline pickups don't lose mileage when they are hauling heavy loads. That would defy laws of physics. You need the same amount of power whether you use gas or electricity, and the loss in range is the same. It's just that large fuel tanks give you more range than the Ford Lighting had in its battery pack, so it's a smaller percentage with gas. As battery capacity improves, the difference will be negligible.
I often found on long trips, delivering furniture, i used more fuel driving back empty than i did driving out full.
The difference in fuel consumption between empty and full, was completely negated by the changes in my driving, because of the goods being in the vehicle or not.
I have never driven an EV so i don't have any experience. Do you think it is possible that there is a greater difference in fuel consumption between empty and full for EVs than diesel?
@@robinhood4640 if your delivering is done with a box truck, the main difference in fuel consumption, EV or ICE is in the aerodynamics. So you have bad mileage already, whatever you do.
A pickup truck hauling a big box trailer has larger drag than a pickup truck alone. If you are pulling a low slung trailer, say bed height, it's aero drag is potentially much better than a horse trailer.
The weight has an impact that you can somewhat mitigate with your driving style. And if the weight is furniture you want to be careful with, there you have it! slower acceleration, longer braking, slower turning, even lower speed on the highway, and you've got your hypermiling creds!
@@martinboucher7406 Absolutely, that is exactly what was going on.
My question was; Do you think it is possible that there is a greater difference in fuel consumption between empty and full for EVs than diesel?
My thoughts are that the difference in efficiency between the two, is having an effect on the difference between empty and full.
Electricity is far more efficient than diesel, so every increase in mass will be seen as increased electricity used.
Whereas diesel is so inefficient that some of the mass will be unnoticed at the tank, because they will be absorbed by variations in the losses.
I have driven many diesel and petrol vehicles and depending on engine size, and gear ratios, the difference between empty and full will be seen to a lesser or greater degree. Also the proportion of the total mass to the payload will contribute to the variation.
I don't have any problem with the idea that EVs show a greater difference than diesel between empty and full, but it would be nice to know if it is true.
@@robinhood4640 That too. And the fact it currently is far easier to get bigger energy storage on a diesel vehicle...
@@martinboucher7406 Thanks for replying, but you are not answering my question.
Is there a difference between the proportional increase in fuel consumption between EVs and ICE between empty and loaded?
My thoughts are that Diesel vehicles are designed to run loaded, therefore they are even less efficient when empty.
EVs are so efficient it makes little difference.
So it is more of an increase in losses when empty, that reduces the difference between empty and full.
Hydrogen (H2) has an economic and application problem. It's no good for home heating and cooking, having way less energy value than the fuel it would largely replace - methane. It produces NOx in combustion, so it pollutes. It's also less safe than methane. There's also no mass, clean infrastructure. It will also cost just as much, if not more, than the fuels it could replace, in the home and transport -petrol/gasoline and diesel.
Yes, there are H2 Fuel Cell vehicles to consider but they are way too expensive....
Ok, I'm writing this and listening too, and a person has approached the mic to comment and said virtually the same thing.
Maybe H2 has a purpose in some form - helping to make steel, for example, but I don't see it feasibly contributing to the zero emission future in commercial, domestic heating and any kind of road and rail transport, and I'm aware that there is the odd H2 train in the world. Shipping maybe, though thorium nuclear would be better. Airships..? Err... No. It's niche.
EDIT: Completely forgot to mention the thing I first wanted to say - Thank you Robert and TFCS team for showing some output from Everything Electric events that people can't get to. I'm coming to Farnborough, UK (35 miles up the road from me) this year. That'll be the 4th time. Bringing more Newbies with me, as usual.
the ONLY "viable" H2 as a fuel use I have heard is combining H2 with captured carbon to create a "SYN FUEL" for long haul aviation or heavy Maritime type of uses
BYD already make shipping can batteries for coastal freight ships that get swapped out at the port like a cargo container
could see the same battery used for heavy rail in routes where electrification wont happen
Hydrogen is a very important industrial component now and mostly made from methane. Petrochemical companies would love to make more hydrogen and pretend that carbon capture will work.
Hydrogen isn’t competitive in transport or mining or farming or even fork lifts. For many reasons.
we had battery swapping for forklifts in the 80s and a FCEV forky does NOT have longer run time then the battery versions - seen and worked on both and LPG/Diesel forkies
@@jasonriddell add a few more words for clarity. Brief comments can be a little cryptic I have been told myself. 😊
The solution to lv2 charging is to have them at work for a cheap/free cost. I know a few oil head ppl who bought ev bc they got free charging at work.
This shld have been rolled out massively from the start. Solves the apartment problem too.
They could be available to the public outside work hours.
should be rolled out into every parking lot
I imagine Hydro installing and managing them AND taking the payment for there use for a NO/LOW cost to the property owners
Tesla's charging network was designed for Teslas. The NACS connector will soon be everywhere, but the chargers have other issues. One is that their cables are too short to reach many other brands of EVs, and so need to be lengthened, and the other is that they were designed for 400v architecture, and many newer EVs are based on 800v. This means that a 400v Tesla charger can never charge one of these cars at their fastest rate, and charging will take longer.
Tesla V4 chargers already take care of all of those "issues" and some "legacy" charge locations are relocating a few cabinets at the end of the row for NON teslas / other side cars like Hyundai ioniq5 /Mach E
they moved the cabinets to the other end of the space and turned it sideways so a Tesla would NOSE in past the cabinet and having it sideways allows ONE cabinet to "service" two stalls on the end
already deployed at a supercharger station in surrey BC along with V4 cabinets
I’ve a feeling that the Provincial subsidy on new EV's will continue in Québec, the provincial government owns Hydro Québec who produce a surplus of power which they need to use. Also, the main EV charging company in the province is Circuit Électrique again the government owns or partly own the company ! 😅. More EV’s on the road is a win win situation for them. 😮
unless something has/will change they already announced the run out of the rebates "due to budgetary" reasons and like BC there already is high penetration in those 2 markets
places like Manitoba and Alberta NEED to KEEP them as there are LOW penetration and LOW used EV cars available
So canada subsidies it ev like china? Thars unfair right
Gas stations have their issues too. Pumps are often out of order. Bad gas can happen. Putting diesel in a gas engine happen. They don't work after hurricanes because they can't get refueled. In the last hurricane Rivian trucks just started right up and had no problems. They are designed for off road use and are water tight. Gas engines are ruined when submerged. Towing cuts range on all vehicles regardless of what powers them. Usually cuts mpg by half.
Wait til Canadians see their friends and family in Australia enjoying high quality Chinese EVs at a reasonable price. Eventually they will ask their politicians why can't we have this? And their answer of we need to protect auto jobs in Ontario won't fly with most. Especially when the 100% tariff adds at least $30K more for a car
keep in mind in a few years nothing BUT EVS will be available and the US makers are PLEADING with the US government to scrap there emissions standards so they can DROP EV production and go back to profitable large SUV sales
Europe cancelled there planned EV tariffs after getting price agreements from the CHINESE foreign trade ambassador
When the farmers go broke.and bill gates buys it all
Thanks for your comment at the end re allowing people to pay for charging easily. Can we hire you to go speak to the BC govt. ?
Audience q re Tesla Superchargers is just confused. Tesla hasn’t made any change to SuC other than to shake up the operation behind the scenes. Since then the network has continued to operate excellently and has also continued to grow.
I believe we NEED to start seeing level 2 chargers in almost every parking lot at high enough numbers someone can leave a car over night / all day plugged in and NOT have to move / incur standing fees
I picture going to the grocery -> plug in for the hour or so then to the mall -> plug in again ETC
having plug ins everywhere would go a LONG ways towards apartment dwellers and other can't charge at home types
The Atlantic region is sorrowfully behind the rest of Canada jn charging infrastructure and EV sales. Unfortunately reaching "critical mass"will be further delayed as a result. The 100 % tariffs on cheap imports is extremely frustrating. Hopefully the upcoming Federal election will address this issue.
only the Chinese ones. You can still order a Volvo CX30 though at $35K, even though they are made in China.
@@Trashed20659 can NOT order the CX30 OR the polestar II only ones available are already landed in Canada this from Volvo / polestar Vancouver the week after everything electric show the C40-CX40 both are made in northern Europe and allowed with the polestar 3 from Korea
even Tesla is scrambling to source cars NOT FROM CHINA and hold there pricing in Canada
What rarely if ever gets discussed are the laws of physics and thermodynamics. These laws rule modern civilization. Good example is the comment on hydrogen. His be nice to every idea approach is how we got into this sad situation. The laws of physics explaining hydrogen make it clear that much of the hype hope and billions of dollars flowing into hydrogen are a waste of time money and resources. Hopium laced projects at this point in our struggle to reduce, eliminate, remove flammable fossils greenhouse gases pollution are counterproductive. We know what must be done. We have everything required to move faster. There's no theological supreme judicial junta that can strike down these laws. Electrify everything ASAP
chinese ev tariffs?
its not complicated at all,..we all committed to the free trade agreement to level the playing field and now we are not being allowed access to it to save 10K jobs for overpaid Unions
41 Million people contributed 10K benefitted
pretty simple
Shame the camera was in a walkway
First World War Problems: Electric F150 50% range reduction when towing.
😊
15 ford lighting all in one charger station…. 🤔😂😂🤣
funny you find that funny
the number of lightnings running around BC for actual work vehicles
@@jasonriddell ua-cam.com/video/JVq71K5rhh0/v-deo.htmlsi=rHneBmh_YavxzcYv
Talk about the $TRILLIONS national electrical grid and its need of $100sBILLIONS in cashflow.
Because when the sunshines the cashflow is dead. With rooftop PV and BVs oversized battery.
When I use fast chargers on my road trips, I am not interested in Tesla chargers or gas station chargers, they are all way more expensive than BC Hydro chargers, which, at 35 cents per kWhr, are still six times the price I pay at home during night time charging. I get that fast chargers are expensive to install, but why is the cost to charge between 2 and 6 six time the cost to charge at home?
lots of maintenance for something that does NOT get a LOT of use as FEW people daily fast charge
Yeah, who are the 3% of Norwegians who are still buying ICE cars???
Ev is politicized only in the West.
only by people having there riches put in risk and "lackys" hating on anyone telling them what to do" - same people that argue we should have "ignored" the "plandemic" all while forgetting the death toll
Hydrogen…?
What a fools errand.
Not a biase.
Plain math.
White hydrogen for trains and ships is a viable option. You sound like some people who don't like EVs. Try imagining new ideas.
as far as "bad" charger availability and down time
right now in MOST markets DC fast chargers are NOT profitable due to such LOW EV volumes
gas pump goes DOWN OR worse a station runs out of gasoline they LOOSE big business
EV plugs go down and days might pass before the business "notices" at all
as MORE and MORE EV's make up the total fleet more the EV chargers will be integral to the business revenue and they will NATURALLY keep them in better operation
He sounds like Hydrogen Man I don’t trust him
How about you spend less on Presenters and more on production then.
Okay don’t have as many presenters and then miss out on more content .
Ha!!..... An absolute CLASSIC UA-cam comment from someone who hasn't the first idea what he's talking about.... It's just laughable, really isn't it.... Are you arrogant and egocentric... or, just dim..... !?!?
.... or, maybe just a troll.....
@@ingatestone100 or balance production and presenter costs. If you have no content, then no social media revenue.
Tl:dr Hydrogen ? Combustible Hydrogen. ? Really! Nooo! . (Not for Passenger cars) Your first audience commentator was ON the money . Your 2nd commentator was Wrong - NO charging was off loaded by Tesla - he should have been corrected : that would have been good journalism .Your guest got there and was reluctantly honest under pressure .
Good Journalism is about exhausting research and deep understanding of ALL technologies such that you may opine authoritatively on what IS actually best for any given application . That is, unless you are a political shill who feels he must be seen to support all players for Income and exposure gain. Thats HOW being an EvEvangelist works.
Fact: BEV is the ONLY alternative to ICE
Fact: TESLA is operating in a different league of implementation & innovation .
At the moment almost every other BEV is paying rent . Prove me wrong.
RANT OVER (for now) 😊❤
Heres the thing EVs don't address.. overconsumption. Overconsumption of energy #1 overconsumption of stuff #2.
To tackle the climate crisis this has to be reigned
Unfortunately, this guy is quietly snubbing Tesla and all it has done for the charging network all across the world, even in Canada.
Er, it IS allowed, y'know... Criticism!
We don't live in Putin's Russia....
@@andymccabe6712 Sure, I was free to criticize, and he is free to have an opinion. I am merely saying he was not as UNBIASED as he was presented to be.
Not sure about _'across the world',_ Tesla's charging network in Europe was restricted access till a couple of years back, even now only a subset of their charger network is open to non-Tesla cars. It's more a case of Tesla recognising that there are more non-Tesla chargers available across Europe, that all cars including Teslas use the same CCS2 connector and so Tesla cars are not locked into Tesla charging infrastructure. Hence the market dynamics of pricing and opening up to all cars would work better for them in a fairly competitive market space.
@GruffSillyGoat Just because there was a delay until SC network was available to all cars doesn't diminish Tesla's work 'around the world' if they hadn't done it, don't believe for a second that the others would even be close to where they are now! Even though they are way behind tesla on easy and reliability.
@richf3654 - respectfully I disagree. Tesla in Europe, and many other parts of the world, launched with a proprietary charger network based on the US specific design one that could not handle the higher power three-phase AC available in many other parts of the world. Whilst this worked for Tesla cars the rest of the market just got with developing a standards based solution (CCS2), this supported higher charging power and so faster rates. It is this standard that took off for charging, outside of North America, allowing cars to fast charge and with the introduction of DC charging (CCS2 combo) leaped over Tesla's ability introducing rapid charging. In the end Tesla, with the release of the model 3, changed to CCS2 on their non-North American cars and chargers due to CCS2's dominance and better features.
In terms easy of use, Tesla is no different from other CCS based networks offering both _charge and go_ and _pay at the charger_ based services. Reliability, again both Tesla and other chargers were poor in Europe in the early days, but today have improved significantly; although Tesla does not hold pole position in this respect. indeed European governments are introducing legislation requiring all charging operators to assure 99% reliability.
Even in North America Tesla dropped their proprietary (CHAdeMo can derived) signalling protocal for that of the CCS standard, supported on V3 and V4 chargers, with tthe territory coalescing on the Tesla connector format as the NACS standard (using the CCS comunications protocol) .
The experience of Tesla in the US is not replicated in other parts of the world where Tesla's charging network has followed rather than defined.
26:00 This moment called out for a "What is your question, sir?"