The Druid is technically there in the D&D Basic form of it. If you play a Neutral Cleric you are considered a Druid and your Turn Unholy reflects that.
pretty sure dwarves coveting gold was a major pagan mythological aspect long before jews were involved. In the Volsuna saga for instance, a main character seigfreid was tasked by his adopted uncle a dwarf, to slay a dragon who sat atop the dwarf’s family treasure. And then birds told Seigfred that the dwarf was planing to kill seigfred to keep it all for himself. (sounds pretty familiar to a certain more modern fantasy author right?). And their general schtick was being associated with crafts and wealth is all over stuff like the poetic eddas. Probably same reason warhammer dwarves have the gold lust. But I havent read DCC, maybe its a bit more on the nose.
Conversely, anti-semitism has been a major part of European culture since uh...the Roman Empire onward, basically. Which, if anything, leads to the question - if stuff like gnomes (with their red caps reminiscent of jewish headware at the time) or dwarves are ultimately very likely to just be anti-semitic stereotypes from the middle ages, do you just use them? And if not, then how many other things do we have to ignore, because...yeah a lot of European folklore and traditions come from not particularly pleasant places or views of other people. Like, at what point do you go far enough back that the origins of a thing don't matter anymore, right?
@@JenxRodwell also, there's the factor that claiming any representation of a mythological creature as being greedy or ugly must secretly be an antisemitic stereotype can itself be a form of antisemitism. Like, if you hear something be described as "greedy" and "ugly" and your first thought is "Jews", that might say a bit more about you than it does the author.
@@lightningstrike9876I agree with almost everything said among those lines in these videos except for this, I am Jewish but never even slightly considered that it was a Jewish stereotype and was surprised when it was mentioned. However I think people are valid in questioning that type of thing, especially because so many high fantasy demihuman races do have racist histories. Dwarves and Jews have had very real problematic connections in the past. This is why I prefer to work new ideas like smelling gold or largely negativity perceived traits in fantasy races into newer races that haven’t existed in the past.
@@GooseMousse I feel like more recently peoples hyper fixation on racism has almost had the opposite effect, like you said, to me a Dwarf being greedy and loving Gold is a Dwarf thing and the Jewish stereotype never crossed my mind until brought up. But I do like your idea of trying to take normal fantasy tropes and reassigning them as interesting; I'm imagining greedy Orcs and barbaric bloodthirsty Dwarves as we speak.
The funnel is about shifting your perspective on how to play away from modern DnD. You don't (or shouldn't) go into a funnel thinking "I want to play a wizard". You should go into it with the expectation of "I can't wait to play out my character's backstory and find out what he becomes" Also, Funnels are optional but they are worth it. The ones I've run are all a blast for players and they really help set the tone 😊
This is exactly right. For example, you might get an incredible magic item in your funnel that makes you say "Dang, this guy was going to be a cleric but now he's GOTTA be a warrior!"
@@rommdan2716 Then DCC may not be the right game for you. There are plenty of games where you can choose your character and stats aren't rolled randomly
Funnels are a concept that works for a very specific kind of game, and one that's not overly popular these days. Tellingly even some games that use 'level zero introductory adventures' as a baseline skip the idea of a funnel, Shadow of the Demon Lord springs to mind. But a game where everybody knows you're dragging hirelings along to serve as easy replacements, or in ye olde 'right, everybody who turned up get out your folders and pick characters' setups it's completely fine.
I always change the sense of taste for dwarves to a sense of vibration from crystal matrices for being an earth based people and can instead 'feel' the vibration from nearby minerals. Just change the negative to a positive.
Alternative way to substitute for funky dice: d2 = coin or d4/2 or d6/3 d3 = d6/2 d5 = d10/2 d7 = d8, reroll 8s d14 = roll a d8 and a d6, reroll 8s, on a 4+ add 7 to the d8 result d16 = roll d8 and d6, on a 4+ add 8 to the d8 result d24 = roll d12 and a d6, on a 4+ add 12 to the d12 result
Well I explained the d24 in the video, but really for everything other than the d2-which I always just do odd=1 even=2 on any die-the easiest solution is always going to be roll the next die size up. Like, even with a 30% chance of having to reroll, rolling a d20 for a d14 is still the second fastest and easiest option.
Easier way is to use multiplicative dice: d14 = d2*d7 d16 = d4*d4 d24 = d3*d8 Also, I use a fudge die plus d10 for d30 (blank=0, -=1, +=2, and like d100, 0/0=30). At least in my mind is quicker to get the result at a glance.
@cassandracastro2759 Multiplicative dice do not work, for example how could you roll a 7 on your d16 with your 2d4? also, the dice would not have a uniform distribution
The funnel won't favor a "strong" character much at all. Any level 0 character, even one with better stats, will die if slapped once or twice by anything in the dungeon. You are not going to win this by throwing stats at it. Whether the character is the best-statted warrior wannabe out there, or the feeblest nerd, what it's going to come down to much more will be luck and/or smart play. So what you get out of the funnel is not some "survival of the fittest", it's just survival. And you'll take what comes out, with the added bonus of having a snappy backstory for your brand-new, random level 1 character.
So what you're saying is "If I want to play a wizard, and I have a character that has good stats for a wizard, my other characters are basically now just bodyguards for the character I actually want to play."
@@zigmenthotep Yeah, certainly, you can of course game the system. I was mostly just commenting on the supposition that the funnel idea would favor a "strong" character with nominal advantage in a fight in a way that predisposes them to come out on top. The rest is more of the intent they have with the whole thing, or I guess an assumption of the play conceit. Which is, I agree, awkward in some rather unfortunate ways. I guess if it was clear that the players really wanted to play certain character classes and were already mentally set, I'd just skip the funnel. DCC tends to be known for them, but it's not as if they're some crucial feature. It's a slightly different way to start the game, but not like you'll lose anything crucial if you just let someone pick Wizard. Your point about "What then when someone loses their character later?" (which they likely will, old school play and DCC tone and adventure design being what it is) is apt as well. They don't really have an answer to that. Such a strong emphasis on play-oriented character creation does not fit a system with suppositions of high lethality very comfortably.
Yeah stats aren't going to help out anyone at level 0 here. You need to think outside of the box, use things in the environment for advantage, have characters work together to try to get an extra bonus, you don't need to fight always either, use items you have and or find. A chicken could be used to distract enemies as you try to sneak around them. A holy symbol can be used, pray and hope you can call down the gods to aid you and burn up your luck points to do so. Also use luck points. I used to play 4th ed, 3.5 and pathfinder first edition we always would use our heads think outside of the box, not always fight everything we didn't have to. A game will be as good as the players are and it's up to the DM/GM/Judge or whatever to come along with these ideas add dice scores they need to hit to get it. Also the point of the funnel is to have show off the basics game, make people think and adds to their backstory and anan easy way to keep and get a party together well as show how lethal the game is among other things.
So the Funnel is the dungeoneering equivalent of social Darwinism? A crummy theory which is not only factually inaccurate but would fail to justify its so-called benefits if it was accurate?
What you said about luck is half right. The modifier does change with the luck score. The birth auger and the modifier it got does not change. That is permanent.
This game's quickly becoming one of my favorites just for how wacky it can be. It has such creative spins on the classes, like the cleric's disapproval mechanic?! Amazing! Great video as usual :)
The Funnel is absolutely brilliant for this reason: when(if) a character survives, they have SEEN things. They went through hell. There's a story. But you lived that story, and so did your fellow players. I'll never write a character backstory again. The Funnel is the best way to tell that tale.
Those are dwarfs my overly sensitve sir, concept of short men living in caves and mines gathering gold and gems existed in slavic folklore hundreds of years before they met any jewish people. Ps. fun fact, Tolkien(he said it himself!) in crafting dwarfts in LOTR used old prechristian slavic(mostly polish) folklore. If see short bearded folk that makes magic items and love gold, and you say "JEW!!!", its your problem not the game problem.
pretty sure a lot of those are Germanic. though i assume there is a decent amount of bleed over culturally both ways. Stuff like the poetic eddas and the nibelungenlied.
Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but it is actually perfectly legal to copy a game's mechanics. You just can't copy the exact wording within that game's rules. For example, you can have Armor Class, but can't copy the exact description as to how AC works.
Yes, part of the "classic" part of the game is the weird dice, especially as the variety of dice have collapsed into a d20. Weird dice were part of the appeal of B/X when it developed, but DCC funky dice aren't simply for tables. As I understand it, having only read and not yet played DCC, moving up and down the dice chain is how they handle situations getting easier or more difficult for various reasons. I like using different dice for qualitatively different actions, but then again, I like Greyhawk initiative.
When I know this system, the ideia selled was very very different from the perception I have now after see how to make a char. Great video. More information than I expected.
While the book sells the idea of a funnel as a way to balance the game, in reality it’s more of step in the character creation process. It’s not something you need to do, and the idea of “What if I want to play a wizard.” Is the antithesis of DCC. The idea is you go in with a handful of characters and put them up against the adventure and see who survives. If you go into wanting to pick and make a certain character before hand you’re kinda missing the point of everything. And running a bunch of characters through a funnel isn’t that bad. I ran a session last night, Sailors of the Starless Sea, and it was just a ton of fun. One thing I realize with players having multiple characters is it allows them to be more silly and try out different personalities. It’s tons of fun and honestly something I think I would try with a lot of other systems too. Edit: To clarify you can just make a character you want. As you read the rule book that's one of the first things it talks about is how people will likely not like that aspect of DCC and you're free to do it however you wish. The idea and concept of a random character and a funnel, however, is that you don't pick and choose a class. You let the fates lead you towards an end result. Which might not be a wizard.
As someone else said, funnels are a great way to generate character backstory. Ever wondered how a bunch of disparate people are working together and trusting each other? This is how. The idea of a character in this game is also not a hero that can defeat dragons because they are special (current D&D comes to mind), but an ordinary commoner that got dropped into a life-or death situation, managed to survive somehow, and decided that this is going to be his life from then on, for whatever reason.
@@krinkrin5982 The Funnel doesn't "generate character backstory" in any way that some guy calling for adventurers in the tavern doesn't. First off, it's not really backstory since it's actually happening in play. Second, it's only a good way to generate character backstories if the Funnel or tavern guy happen to provide a setting and plot for good character storytelling. Maybe the Funnel can do that, but a tavern guy _definitely_ can. Third, I don't see how either could work if you don't have some character backstory ahead of time. Without some idea who your character is at the start of the Funnel or when he enters the tavern, how can you wring any story out of that? How can you create character within the adventure without first bringing character into it? Further, I'd argue that the Funnel is _guaranteed_ to be no better than a random tavern adventure any GM could potentially write. The Funnel was written once, and it has to work the same for every character sent into the Funnel. Every combination of attributes and occupation and player personality and party composition needs to be accounted for. But even the most inexperienced GM improv can account for details. They can yes-and their player's ideas, or tweak events to be more personal, or invent specific reasons why a scribe, farmer, and ratcatcher might be sent on their mission. They might not try, or they might fail, but any GM can potentially do better, and most would have pretty good odds even without a session 0. Off-the-shelf adventures _always_ suck for character-based storytelling, because _their stories can't be about specific characters._
@@timothymclean Let me address your points in order: > The Funnel doesn't "generate character backstory" in any way that some guy calling for adventurers in the tavern doesn't. There is absolutely a difference between dropping characters in a situation against their will and them picking up a random quest. In the second scenario, they already are adventurers and willing to go along with it. However, both can work equally well as a backstory, because a funnel adventure is essentially pitting characters that are not adventurers against a life-or-death situation, with the goal of emerging as someone who has the determination and skill to tackle those odds in the future and has trusted companions to do so with. The random NPC quest can be something like a dare to spend a night in the village's haunted manor, the point is that the effect on the characters is the same. > First off, it's not really backstory since it's actually happening in play. Technically, not, however, what is a backstory than simply a list of events and NPC interactions that caused your character to become an adventurer? The only difference is that you are actually playing through it, allowing dice to decide the outcome, rather than writing it like a book. Many GMs advocate for playing through the character's backstory in any case. > Second, it's only a good way to generate character backstories if the Funnel or tavern guy happen to provide a setting and plot for good character storytelling. That is fully on the GM really, but again, the adventure itself provides the difficult situation, and the reactions of the characters to that situation are what generates character storytelling. > Third, I don't see how either could work if you don't have some character backstory ahead of time. Without some idea who your character is at the start of the Funnel or when he enters the tavern, how can you wring any story out of that? How can you create character within the adventure without first bringing character into it? In the case of a funnel, the usual character backstory is that 'they are a commoner of this specific profession that has led a normal life up to this point.' That is all the backstory anyone needs to start a funnel, since the interactions between characters and reactions of the characters to the dangerous situation they are in during the funnel provide further backstory. Again, backstory is about what happened prior to the character becoming an adventurer that willingly goes to dangerous places and fights monsters for fun and profit. > Further, I'd argue that the Funnel is guaranteed to be no better than a random tavern adventure any GM could potentially write. This is a moot point, since a GM that does their job well will not run any scenario as-is straight out of the book, but use it as a springboard to create something for their group, including improvising things on the fly. > The Funnel was written once, and it has to work the same for every character sent into the Funnel. Every combination of attributes and occupation and player personality and party composition needs to be accounted for. From what I understand, funnels are written differently to regular adventures in the way that they are supposed to be deadly and rely more on player skill than character abilities (because they have none). > But even the most inexperienced GM improv can account for details. They can yes-and their player's ideas, or tweak events to be more personal, or invent specific reasons why a scribe, farmer, and ratcatcher might be sent on their mission. They might not try, or they might fail, but any GM can potentially do better, and most would have pretty good odds even without a session 0. Again, this is true for any pre-written adventure module. And a funnel adventure is equally one when written by a GM for a specific group, and when adapted from an idea someone else had. > Off-the-shelf adventures always suck for character-based storytelling, because their stories can't be about specific characters. I am getting the feeling that your beef is with published adventures being run straight out of the box without any modification, rather than specifically with the funnel style.
I understand the impetus behind pointing out potential stereotypes, but I find that that sort of thing is rarely a good idea. It leads to "any negative trait I see in fantasy is somehow real world bigotry" which is an easy way to make yourself look bad. It's like the "Orcs remind me of black people" controversy. Where you have an evil and violent fantasy race, and then someone tries to draw the parallel between them and people of African descent, because some racists think that they're more violent than normal? Nobody is fighting orcs in tabletop and becoming more racist, nobody is fighting orcs in tabletop and using that as justification for real world racism. In the same vein, Dwarves being able to smell gold is just funny? Like, it's not even being portrayed negatively. Dwarves are usually portrayed as generally good, people like pretending to be them for a reason. Like, what's the angle here? That because Dwarves can smell gold, people are going to start hating Jewish people? or that people who already dislike Jewish people are going to see it as a dogwhistle or something? Bringing it up just looks conspiratorial. There's no possible way that it can really affect any kind of bad outcome, other than it maybe reminding you of something negative, in which case TTRPGs might not be for you at all, considering that they're about playing a group of murderers who kill people and take their stuff, and plots typically revolve around people being murdered and kidnapped by X Y and the Z. Either way, just a sour note on an otherwise good video. Again, I understand your reasoning, I just think it was the wrong call.
Current polls to measure antisemitism include the small stuff. The NSDAP was able to build their stuff on little ideas that seemed harmless on their own. There was a sort of background antisemitism in Europe that just didn't reach full Kristallnacht level. A questionnaire might poll people if they think Jews are more loyal to Israel than their home nation, if Jews should be allowed to marry into your family, if the Jews have undue media influence. People at the time who believed there was an international sionist movement all Jews were loyal to could still be shocked by the Kristallnacht brutality and think that was too far. And then fret if their country could handle Jewish refugees.
@@SusCalvin IDK most of that just sounds like a slippery slope argument. Most people don't even make the connection between "haha funny dwarf smell gold" and Jews at all. Your argument only makes sense if everyone is already antisemetic, in which case it makes no difference. Pointing it out just makes you look weird for even having made the association in the first place.
Would you be more specific in how you get the rolls of 6, 20 and 22 using your d30 method please? You said you use a 3 in the tens place instead of a d10, but I'm confused by how the outcomes are obtained there. Thank you in advance.
How I get a result of 1-30 via dice is rolling 1d10 and 1d6. On a 1-2 on the d6 you just read the d10, on a 3-4 on the d6 you just add 10 to the d10 result, and on a 5-6 on the d6 you add 20 to the d10 result.
Gnomes and half-elves did in fact get the Basic treatment. Gnomes appeared in Creature Crucible 2: Top Ballista, where they have a flying city, and half-elves were statted out as a class in a Dragon Magazine article exploring the world of Mystara
Half-Elves of Mystara are, interestingly, a created race that partially resembles both humans and elves, as no races in Mystara can interbreed (unless noted as an exception somewhere I haven't heard of) and that includes humans and elves not being cross-fertile like almost every other setting ever.
I can understand the appeal of Dungeon Crawl Classics but I don't think I'd want to run a long form campaign with it. If I was going to run it I'd run it for a one shot maybe a level 2 or 3 campaign but not much longer then that. Also I don't like Races counting as Classes, that's just weird imo.
I'd rather a system like this did away with all the non-humans, or took away all the human's classes. You are Man, Elf, Dwarf, and Hobbit or you are Fighting Man, Magic User, Expert Treasure Finder, and Holy Crusader. Races Only: Can Men use magic? Yes, if they read it from a book or scroll, and are unusually wise; can Elves use magic? Yes, and will intuit the ways of magic without active teaching. Can Dwarves use magic? Yes, but only the slow deliberate sort to set up wards and alarms and craft items of great wonder, nothing you can just whip out in the middle of an adventure. Can Halflings use magic? No, they're the down to earth sorts, but do seem better able to resist the influences of magic on their persons. All humans of decent strength or dexterity are warriors, all humans of high intelligence can be wizards but need not be if they don't want to seek wizardly equipment like books and staves over the reliable protections of sword, shield, or bow. Classes Only: If any of you aren't humans, you're close enough that we have no rules to represent this. You may have a distant fairy grandparent or the blood of giants in your line, but the important thing is less where you came from, and more what you can DO.
13:00 I guess I can see that as a jewish stereotype, but it's kinda a dwarven one too. At least there are some norse stories about how dwarfs love gold. 23:20 book from the 1930s?
Tolkien recognized it as a Jewish stereotype when he made Dwarves and based several aspects of Dwarves off Hebrews (Letter 176). They spoke a language heavily inspired by Hebrew (Khuzdul), they were a displaced people without a land of their own and they were distinct, but still related, to Tolkien's Christian framework of Middle-earth, to represent the differences but relation between Judaism and Christianity. It's entirely possible the stereotype was based off Jews before him, though. A lot of iconic dwarf characteristics notably did not begin appearing until well into the Viking era despite dwarf stories predating that. People seem to not realize Norse and Germanic people had a not-great history with Jewish people since at least the Roman Republic era.
@@amelialonelyfart8848 That's fair. My knowledge on the subject is very loose. And some of the stories that I know were around where outside religions and perspectives were influencing them. I mean I think the story I might have been thinking at the time was Sigurð slaying Fáfnir. ... the parallels are unfortunately very obvious now, to me. At the very least when I think dwarves I just think the greatest craftsmen of armor and weapons and the best builders of stone structures.
Huh. I have watched a number of videos about DCC over the last couple years, and I have purchased and read through the DCC book, Hubris, and Lankhmar. I have not yet played DCC (but soon...), but all that said, I have not heard the thing about dwarves being able to smell gold as a Jewish stereotype. But it's a stereotype about dwarves, and dwarves aren't Jewish. So, the thing about halflings being lucky and good with dual-wielding knives, is that a short people stereotype? 🤔
I thought Dwarf gold-smelling was a reference to mythical Nordic dwarves. Which were more like a type of old-school faerie, living under mountains, and some of those old legends said they could do that. I'm a bit alarmed that the vid creator would just instantly jump to the conclusion he did. That's not a good look in his case.
@@NefariousKoel What source do you have that from? I don't remember reading that they could literally smell gold anywhere and searching in both English and Norwegian didn't give any relevant results.
Bro where did you get Dwarf smells gold = Jew??? Where did that even come from? Ive always seen Dwarves as more Scottish (thanks Gimli) or German (Warhammer)
It came from J. R. R. Tolkien, probably before him. He very much based Dwarves off Jews. Their language is based off Hebrew, they are a displaced people, they're separate but still related to his Christian-inspired cosmological-theological system. He went as far as to say it in Letter 176.
Interesting you didn't mention stillborn characters. When you get a negative bonus on stamina and roll low enough on the d4, your character is considered to have died stillborn and you can either accept that or roll a new one.
I'm disappointed that they don't use the weird odd-number dice, d7, d9, d11, etc. Also, Have you made Cyberpunk character yet? I can't seem to find it on your channel.
I'm pretty sure the aim was to specifically use the Gamescience dice-going as far as to call them “Zocchi dice”-which include d3, d5, d7, d14, d16, d20, and d24, but not d9 or d11. As for Cyberpunk, It's just not something I remember exists often.
OSR games aren't really my thing, buuuuuuut I love funnels as a one shot. Throwing a bunch of doods into a fun house by way of Jigsaw sounds like a hoot for a night.
When someone once asked if his Dwarves were Jewish stereotypes, Tolkien said "If so, that would be flattery to my Dwarves, not an insult to the Jews." And as Mr. Welch has shown, what you really need for cultural sensitivity isn't people to check for possible offense, but to ask people _from_ that culture what they think is cool, epic, and over the top heroic and embody _those_ stereotypes in your important characters to a setting. Make your heroes and villains from a fantasy culture as much like the heroes and villains said culture's real world inspiration would have written or recounted stories about! Don't be afraid to offend the perpetually offended, they weren't going to like you trying to have fun anyway.
National stereotypes in Europe were used by the states to tap hatred on and off. You don't need to hate the French all the time, just absorb that the French are fundamentally different. Those peasants just across the river are now super different peasants and the far-off crown is your friend.
What's the problem with rolling d24? You roll a d6. If it's 4+, you use d12+12, otherwise just d12. It's one roll and either you add 12 or not. The most problematic one would be d14 since it requires 4+ on d6 to substitute for d2 and a d8 with a reroll of 8 to substitute for d7. But honestly if rolling d8 for d7 is acceptable, then adding d2 isn't too much of an added hustle.
@@SusCalvin that's not what I meant. I propose a single d12 plus a coin toss. If it's heads, you leave your single d12 result as is. If it's tails you add +12 to that same d12 result. Thus you get 24 outcomes from you d12&d2 double roll.
@@StanNotSoSaint Gotcha. Yeah, there are workarounds for a lot of the funky dice. But the more there are and the harder it is to get a d30 the more operations I got to add. I could keep rolling a d3-1x10 + 1d10 for the d30 but do I want to five-ten times in a row.
@@SusCalvin sure thing. That's troublesome if you need to do it lots of those. Depends on the rules though. If you need to make just a roll or two per turn, it's far less egregious. But if you roll for every little thing, it sure would get bothersome quickly.
I get coming across a system that feels wrong to you at first glance (based on initial ignorance), but man this “review” is based on a haughty combination of wrong information, outdated information and significant leaps of logic based on broad and untested assumptions. The current version of the core rules changed a lot of outdated and potentially offensive language (stuff that was never included to court controversy). 8th printing, for example, eliminated the mentioned halfling occupation. Also the way funnels play out, contrary to your assumption, does not actually tend to benefit the statistically best character. This is from a person who’s played and run many funnels. Also the hard line the system allegedly takes about 3d6 “down the line” for stat generation is clarified in the same section to be a stylistic choice. It’s not in any way a hard rule that’s inviolable. That’s a huge difference between the design intentions implied in 5e (the rules are law) and that of DCC and basically all OSR systems (rules are made to be adjusted to the table’s whim). It’s annoying to see such half baked “gotcha” attacks leveled at any game, particularly one that has built such a robust and inclusive community. So many of your assumptions could be easily clarified if you bothered to spend even a few minutes on any community forums or perhaps even watching any of the voluminous online content from both fans and Goodman.
5e's design intentions aren't "the rules are law", it's that half of the community has made it so that way. It's an outcome of the popularity of online content revolving around rules mastery and character builds, and thus leading to players highly adverse to "table's whim" play (anti-fudging, not accepting the monsters at your table might not follow the book's lore, acting as if you can't play a different alignment than what the books tell you is the usual for your race, etc, for example).
Man, people being squeamish on my behalf is always a tad annoying. I give Dwarves a pass. They can sniff as much gold as they want. That's pretty metal. Never knew I was supposed to be offended, until Twitter told me so, really. Your local lizardman.
Of course the weird dice are unnecessary, it's just that dice = fun! That said, the provide simple instructions for playing without the weird dice if you like. Re: Character Classes, their plan was to publish an Annual publication that would offer expanded classes, gods, patrons, etc. And they did produce one annual, but so much excellent 3rd-party and player produced work came out that they stopped making the annuals. The Gong Farmers Almanac (several versions have been printed) contains many, many optional character classes as do some of the adventure worlds that have been created. And don't forge that MCC is fully compatible, so you can use those classes too. The Goodman Games folks are actually quite sensitive to issues around equity. It's not practical or desirable to rebuild an entire fantasy world around the sensitives of a few unhappy people. I hope they don't join hands with WoTC and Paizo, and other organizations that are destroying their own games. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.
The only way I played it was a level 0 one-shot. It was pretty fun, but it didn't really feel like RPG altogether... More like some board game (perhaps because I don't care much for winning or losing at these, as long as won't have to leave mid-game if I don't play well enough, like in Mafia). Also, we played one character at a time; playing four characters at once in MCC (as it's intended in DCC as well) was pretty tedious.
The crew managed to play a big squadron of five level naughts each. 20-25 in total. If you are used to playing with a goon squad it's no different, except you are all goons.
Yeah to find the good OSR games you have to go in real deep. Most OSR games that ever get talked about are retro clones, very bigoted or sexist in some way, or AI-generated slop now.
Whenever I hear OSR now, I think "I don't understand what this thing is?" probably because I don't actually play modern RPGs that much (though have been running Abomination Vaults recently with Pathfinder 2e) and really play in the OSR 'style' I suppose. Though never did like the 'oh, you're just dead because your dice hates you' method. People told me online to not fub rolls, but when you're playing GURPS and your character can take a long time to tweak just right, I'm not very likely to just kill you off based on some lucky / unlucky rolls... But maybe that's just me, I'd rather keep a player in the game and having fun then to just say 'sorry dude, you're dead.' It was a huge difference when, with other games, you can roll up a new character in a few minutes.
As an Israeli, that jew stereotype comment about dwarves kinda came out of left field. Dwarves can smell gold Nothing was inheritly racist, and you made it about my race. I had no issues with the dwarfs ability as I ,as a jew, dont have infared vision or have a history of mining. Really disappointed and soured the video and this channel.
Hot take, but I think if you're going to be rolling for stats, it should be roll in order. If you get to assign the rolls to the stats you want, then all you're rolling for is how good the character is, and that's dumb. If you want to build a specific character, then character creation shouldn't have any randomness at all.
I had some good times playing DCC. Now a game that plays similarly as DCC, Dungeon World, D&D and 4AD with the best combined rules is called D100 Dungeon by MK Games from Martin Knight. I love D100 Dungeon!
Great and interesting video. But to be honest. The entire idea of retro clones is to keep it simple. 5th ed is a great game but combat and such takes way to long. I don't think there should be new classes. DCC has a unique take on OSR with fun adventures, chaotic rules and funky dices.
It's almost like the conservative grognards who like OSR came to debate your not especially conservative view of it. It was a fine video for the rest of us.
I never associated dwarves smelling gems and gold and love counting coins with Jews. I think that's on you. This is the first I've ever heard of such thing. It sounds like how liberals say Tolkien was racist for how depicted Orcs. If racism is your worldview, that's how you see the world. That's still on you. Don't assume that everyone else is racist like you.
I'm gonna be like that, but ascending armor class (AAC) is just not objectively better than descending armor class (DAC). What's "best" is what you like to use the most and prefer when actually playing. Thus it's fair to say that AAC is best for you and your table, but that goes the other direction too. It's okay to not like DAC, but to say that AAC is "objectively better" is just incorrect.
"The good kind of OSR" is such a gross comment. I appreciate that old RPGs are different, and you might not find them worth your time, but letting them disappear out of print forever because the rights holders can't make any money on them, and the original print runs are becoming rarer (and harder to understand) isn't a stance I can get behind. Publications like OSE or Mutant Future that collect, reorganize for clarity, and reprint rules for old games are a fantastic resource for people interested in exploring the history of RPGs.
It kinda seems like the game is designed for quick and dirty one shots, but also for long-term campaigns at the same time? It seems like those two directions clash with each other.
I have had campaigns that were basically a series of one-shots with the same characters progressing through them. It's definitely possible, and that series of one-shots can quickly unfold into a wider campaign depending on what the players do.
I mean, dwarves are creatures of the earth, it's not crazy they can smell precious metals. Will you find it offensive that rust monsters can smell iron too? You people always looking for something...
As a Jew, I don't find this the least bit offensive. Dwarves may have originally been based on Jews, but they certainly grew out of those stereotypes in modern fantasy. The addition of the ability to smell gold and gems doesn't strike me as insensitive, but rather as something that really sits well as an ability of a subterranean race, in the context of a game that is all about going out on adventure and amassing huge amounts of treasure.
@@HCSR2 it is a joke, I don't actually care if they smell metal, though they should have chosen some other method to detect, maybe something that metals have, instead of smell
This looks more like a boardgame than a ttrpg, I like making a character with whatever I got, though this game doesn't look like it want to make a character at all, just a pile of numbers...
Gonna get technical. Im of the opinion that OSR is a very specific and trchnical term that *only* should be about returning to or emulating (via retroclones) older dnd. Being inspired by it and doing your own thing should be categorized under the broader umbrella of oldschool gaming in general. still cool, just not OSR.
Chaotic is not evil. Chaotic means 'opposed to organized civilization.' This can mean 'doing bad things to people' but it can also mean 'heading off into the wilderness to live in a small community not beholden to the king.' The shaman is quite clearly an example of the latter.
I'd say the benefit of the funnel isn't either (1) it randomises character selection or (2) it lets you pick the one you like - it's that it gives you both options at once. You know right off the bat which of your characters you want to play? Cool, try your best to keep them alive! On the contrary, you have three generic characters you have no particular preference for? No problem, play them for a bit in this deadly sandbox and maybe some personality will emerge that helps you pick a favourite, or maybe they'll just die off until the decision is made for you.
I feel like DCC was made by incels. I will give them the benefit of the doubt as they are trying to capture the old dnd style, and Gygax isn't someone you should look up to. But come on, its been 50 years since those first books, we can move past races as class, either don't have fantasy races playable, or make it separate from class. Its not a core part of the game, it was a decision made by closed minded people who where bad at understanding the thing they made. You can be old school, but still benefit from modern ideas.
The Funnel is mainly about being edgy and feeling cool how your game is more hardcore and brutal than the D&D and you can pat yourself on the back about it. OSR just really loves waxing poetic about how player characters are dirt farmers and peasants who aren't in any way special, its basically part of the aesthetic.
WFRP is the main game for stevedores, coalers, militia and students. PCs in there remain squishy. A standard humanoid monster is equal to a level 1 or 2 fighter. You are not weak, the world is just at your level at the start. We found the funnel to not be that deadly. A few of the 25 goons were chomped but most became level 1 heroes. It depends on the adventure.
I'm a fan of OSR games and the style they embody, but DCC is honestly probably my least favorite OSR game. The things everyone likes about it are the things I don't like; it's a little too gonzo wacky for me and I'm not a fan of having to have a special set of dice for my RPG. I do think there's some cool stuff to take from it; the magic system is great if you want to make magic really wacky and I absolutely snatched up copies of the Mighty Deed section on its own and I'm more than happy to let any martial in any game use a similar system. But overall when I dive into the OSR, I really want a simple system that gives me more freedom to just make calls and create my own stuff and I feel like DCC goes the other way where it wants a huge tome of rules to represent every possible outcome (and to fit all their gigantic tables). I'm looking for Basic and ironically DCC leans more towards Advanced, not in the sense that it is literally inspired by Advanced DnD (it's not), but in the sense that there's two big stereotypes of OSR games; extremely simple pamphlets and absolutely gigantic tomes, and if I'm gonna have to pick one of the two, I'm more of a pamphlet guy. That said, I'm really glad you liked it! I think a lot of OSR games come with an inherent debuff from people who aren't already invested in that corner of the hobby so I was really expecting it to just be a lot of "grumble grumble old game bad!" but you were extremely fair to it, which it seems like you usually are but it's always nice to point out when it happens.
DCC adventures like to mutate PCs. Dinosaurs and time travellers and lamb demons are nice but DCC throws them in everywhere. The funky dice are hard to get.
A weird amount of people being like “What no the money hungry Jew is totally not a real ancient stereotype, you made that up in this video!” In these comments.
I think it's more, at least for me, that not every instance of a person or type of creature being greedy and liking gold is a reference to Jews. Like, is Mr. Krabs based on Jewish stereotypes because he loves money?
You jumping to calling smelling gold a Jewish stereotype is a you thing. Frankly, thst type if virtue signaling is also very disingenuous. Shame on you.
There's definitely a few more *sigh* problematic elements that very much feel like they're out of ignorance but are still definitely there like usage of the g slur, with "halfling g slurs" being a rollable occupation with like, fortune telling accoutrements iirc.
If only they’d put the stats in a different order, it could have been ASSLIP. Missed opportunity.
The real MVP
Lol!
The Druid is technically there in the D&D Basic form of it. If you play a Neutral Cleric you are considered a Druid and your Turn Unholy reflects that.
Not until higher levels, at least in BECMI. In BECMI it's introduced as a higher level option for Neutral clerics in the Companion set.
@@Mannahnin I think he meant that type of Druid is in DCC, represented by DCC's Neutral Cleric.
pretty sure dwarves coveting gold was a major pagan mythological aspect long before jews were involved.
In the Volsuna saga for instance, a main character seigfreid was tasked by his adopted uncle a dwarf, to slay a dragon who sat atop the dwarf’s family treasure. And then birds told Seigfred that the dwarf was planing to kill seigfred to keep it all for himself. (sounds pretty familiar to a certain more modern fantasy author right?).
And their general schtick was being associated with crafts and wealth is all over stuff like the poetic eddas. Probably same reason warhammer dwarves have the gold lust. But I havent read DCC, maybe its a bit more on the nose.
Conversely, anti-semitism has been a major part of European culture since uh...the Roman Empire onward, basically. Which, if anything, leads to the question - if stuff like gnomes (with their red caps reminiscent of jewish headware at the time) or dwarves are ultimately very likely to just be anti-semitic stereotypes from the middle ages, do you just use them? And if not, then how many other things do we have to ignore, because...yeah a lot of European folklore and traditions come from not particularly pleasant places or views of other people.
Like, at what point do you go far enough back that the origins of a thing don't matter anymore, right?
@@JenxRodwell also, there's the factor that claiming any representation of a mythological creature as being greedy or ugly must secretly be an antisemitic stereotype can itself be a form of antisemitism. Like, if you hear something be described as "greedy" and "ugly" and your first thought is "Jews", that might say a bit more about you than it does the author.
@@lightningstrike9876 See also the people who insist on whitewashing the behavior of orcs because they see "orc" and think "black"
@@lightningstrike9876I agree with almost everything said among those lines in these videos except for this, I am Jewish but never even slightly considered that it was a Jewish stereotype and was surprised when it was mentioned. However I think people are valid in questioning that type of thing, especially because so many high fantasy demihuman races do have racist histories. Dwarves and Jews have had very real problematic connections in the past. This is why I prefer to work new ideas like smelling gold or largely negativity perceived traits in fantasy races into newer races that haven’t existed in the past.
@@GooseMousse I feel like more recently peoples hyper fixation on racism has almost had the opposite effect, like you said, to me a Dwarf being greedy and loving Gold is a Dwarf thing and the Jewish stereotype never crossed my mind until brought up. But I do like your idea of trying to take normal fantasy tropes and reassigning them as interesting; I'm imagining greedy Orcs and barbaric bloodthirsty Dwarves as we speak.
when your character dies and you need a new one during the game you’re supposed to have hirelings that will also level up etc
You can roll up a level 1 bum. The funnel is like a starting minigame. Or maybe you want to have four-five hopefully show up.
The funnel is about shifting your perspective on how to play away from modern DnD. You don't (or shouldn't) go into a funnel thinking "I want to play a wizard". You should go into it with the expectation of "I can't wait to play out my character's backstory and find out what he becomes"
Also, Funnels are optional but they are worth it. The ones I've run are all a blast for players and they really help set the tone 😊
This is exactly right. For example, you might get an incredible magic item in your funnel that makes you say "Dang, this guy was going to be a cleric but now he's GOTTA be a warrior!"
And what if I don't want to do that?
@@rommdan2716 Then DCC may not be the right game for you. There are plenty of games where you can choose your character and stats aren't rolled randomly
@@GrandNagusEli Sounds nice by me 👌
Funnels are a concept that works for a very specific kind of game, and one that's not overly popular these days. Tellingly even some games that use 'level zero introductory adventures' as a baseline skip the idea of a funnel, Shadow of the Demon Lord springs to mind.
But a game where everybody knows you're dragging hirelings along to serve as easy replacements, or in ye olde 'right, everybody who turned up get out your folders and pick characters' setups it's completely fine.
3:30
WAIT
Is this where the Skeleton Being Poked By Pitchfork image come from?!
Neat!
so THAT's where the sassy skeleton meme's pic came from
Keep in mind: the funnel is optional. You can make a level 1 character and just choose to play a wizard.
I always change the sense of taste for dwarves to a sense of vibration from crystal matrices for being an earth based people and can instead 'feel' the vibration from nearby minerals. Just change the negative to a positive.
There are some settings where dwarfs are closer to earth gnomes. Dwarfs in Birthright can eat stone.
20:26
You really should buy the weird dice 🎲
"The Good(man) kind of OSR!" 😉
The classes have significant variants based on alignment (see thief). This adds variety.
Alternative way to substitute for funky dice:
d2 = coin or d4/2 or d6/3
d3 = d6/2
d5 = d10/2
d7 = d8, reroll 8s
d14 = roll a d8 and a d6, reroll 8s, on a 4+ add 7 to the d8 result
d16 = roll d8 and d6, on a 4+ add 8 to the d8 result
d24 = roll d12 and a d6, on a 4+ add 12 to the d12 result
Well I explained the d24 in the video, but really for everything other than the d2-which I always just do odd=1 even=2 on any die-the easiest solution is always going to be roll the next die size up.
Like, even with a 30% chance of having to reroll, rolling a d20 for a d14 is still the second fastest and easiest option.
Easier way is to use multiplicative dice:
d14 = d2*d7
d16 = d4*d4
d24 = d3*d8
Also, I use a fudge die plus d10 for d30 (blank=0, -=1, +=2, and like d100, 0/0=30). At least in my mind is quicker to get the result at a glance.
@cassandracastro2759 Multiplicative dice do not work, for example how could you roll a 7 on your d16 with your 2d4? also, the dice would not have a uniform distribution
The funnel won't favor a "strong" character much at all. Any level 0 character, even one with better stats, will die if slapped once or twice by anything in the dungeon. You are not going to win this by throwing stats at it. Whether the character is the best-statted warrior wannabe out there, or the feeblest nerd, what it's going to come down to much more will be luck and/or smart play. So what you get out of the funnel is not some "survival of the fittest", it's just survival. And you'll take what comes out, with the added bonus of having a snappy backstory for your brand-new, random level 1 character.
So what you're saying is "If I want to play a wizard, and I have a character that has good stats for a wizard, my other characters are basically now just bodyguards for the character I actually want to play."
@@zigmenthotep Yeah, certainly, you can of course game the system. I was mostly just commenting on the supposition that the funnel idea would favor a "strong" character with nominal advantage in a fight in a way that predisposes them to come out on top. The rest is more of the intent they have with the whole thing, or I guess an assumption of the play conceit. Which is, I agree, awkward in some rather unfortunate ways.
I guess if it was clear that the players really wanted to play certain character classes and were already mentally set, I'd just skip the funnel. DCC tends to be known for them, but it's not as if they're some crucial feature. It's a slightly different way to start the game, but not like you'll lose anything crucial if you just let someone pick Wizard.
Your point about "What then when someone loses their character later?" (which they likely will, old school play and DCC tone and adventure design being what it is) is apt as well. They don't really have an answer to that. Such a strong emphasis on play-oriented character creation does not fit a system with suppositions of high lethality very comfortably.
Yeah stats aren't going to help out anyone at level 0 here. You need to think outside of the box, use things in the environment for advantage, have characters work together to try to get an extra bonus, you don't need to fight always either, use items you have and or find. A chicken could be used to distract enemies as you try to sneak around them. A holy symbol can be used, pray and hope you can call down the gods to aid you and burn up your luck points to do so. Also use luck points. I used to play 4th ed, 3.5 and pathfinder first edition we always would use our heads think outside of the box, not always fight everything we didn't have to. A game will be as good as the players are and it's up to the DM/GM/Judge or whatever to come along with these ideas add dice scores they need to hit to get it. Also the point of the funnel is to have show off the basics game, make people think and adds to their backstory and anan easy way to keep and get a party together well as show how lethal the game is among other things.
So the Funnel is the dungeoneering equivalent of social Darwinism?
A crummy theory which is not only factually inaccurate but would fail to justify its so-called benefits if it was accurate?
Sense gold, I called it sense Ore which cover more than just gold
What you said about luck is half right. The modifier does change with the luck score. The birth auger and the modifier it got does not change. That is permanent.
This game's quickly becoming one of my favorites just for how wacky it can be. It has such creative spins on the classes, like the cleric's disapproval mechanic?! Amazing!
Great video as usual :)
The Funnel is absolutely brilliant for this reason: when(if) a character survives, they have SEEN things. They went through hell. There's a story. But you lived that story, and so did your fellow players. I'll never write a character backstory again. The Funnel is the best way to tell that tale.
My absolute favorite OSR (clone) !! It's so fun to *customize* it and being able to use starcrawl or mutant crawl classics really makes it best for me
Those are dwarfs my overly sensitve sir, concept of short men living in caves and mines gathering gold and gems existed in slavic folklore hundreds of years before they met any jewish people.
Ps. fun fact, Tolkien(he said it himself!) in crafting dwarfts in LOTR used old prechristian slavic(mostly polish) folklore. If see short bearded folk that makes magic items and love gold, and you say "JEW!!!", its your problem not the game problem.
you see*
pretty sure a lot of those are Germanic. though i assume there is a decent amount of bleed over culturally both ways.
Stuff like the poetic eddas and the nibelungenlied.
Do Savage Worlds next, please!
Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but it is actually perfectly legal to copy a game's mechanics. You just can't copy the exact wording within that game's rules. For example, you can have Armor Class, but can't copy the exact description as to how AC works.
I have the weird dice.
An the weird dice are fun to use.
Yes, part of the "classic" part of the game is the weird dice, especially as the variety of dice have collapsed into a d20. Weird dice were part of the appeal of B/X when it developed, but DCC funky dice aren't simply for tables. As I understand it, having only read and not yet played DCC, moving up and down the dice chain is how they handle situations getting easier or more difficult for various reasons. I like using different dice for qualitatively different actions, but then again, I like Greyhawk initiative.
B/X use the standard D4, D6, D8, D10, D12, and D20.
DCC use D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D10, D12, D14, D16, D20, D24 and D30.
When I know this system, the ideia selled was very very different from the perception I have now after see how to make a char. Great video. More information than I expected.
4:42 what modifier do i use for the attack? Agility or Strength? Mine is an elf.
Strength for melee, Agility for ranged .
1. Skyrealms of Jorune
2. Darksword Adventures
3. Toon
4. Alpha Omega
While the book sells the idea of a funnel as a way to balance the game, in reality it’s more of step in the character creation process. It’s not something you need to do, and the idea of “What if I want to play a wizard.” Is the antithesis of DCC. The idea is you go in with a handful of characters and put them up against the adventure and see who survives. If you go into wanting to pick and make a certain character before hand you’re kinda missing the point of everything.
And running a bunch of characters through a funnel isn’t that bad. I ran a session last night, Sailors of the Starless Sea, and it was just a ton of fun. One thing I realize with players having multiple characters is it allows them to be more silly and try out different personalities.
It’s tons of fun and honestly something I think I would try with a lot of other systems too.
Edit: To clarify you can just make a character you want. As you read the rule book that's one of the first things it talks about is how people will likely not like that aspect of DCC and you're free to do it however you wish.
The idea and concept of a random character and a funnel, however, is that you don't pick and choose a class. You let the fates lead you towards an end result. Which might not be a wizard.
As someone else said, funnels are a great way to generate character backstory. Ever wondered how a bunch of disparate people are working together and trusting each other? This is how.
The idea of a character in this game is also not a hero that can defeat dragons because they are special (current D&D comes to mind), but an ordinary commoner that got dropped into a life-or death situation, managed to survive somehow, and decided that this is going to be his life from then on, for whatever reason.
@@krinkrin5982 The Funnel doesn't "generate character backstory" in any way that some guy calling for adventurers in the tavern doesn't.
First off, it's not really backstory since it's actually happening in play.
Second, it's only a good way to generate character backstories if the Funnel or tavern guy happen to provide a setting and plot for good character storytelling. Maybe the Funnel can do that, but a tavern guy _definitely_ can.
Third, I don't see how either could work if you don't have some character backstory ahead of time. Without some idea who your character is at the start of the Funnel or when he enters the tavern, how can you wring any story out of that? How can you create character within the adventure without first bringing character into it?
Further, I'd argue that the Funnel is _guaranteed_ to be no better than a random tavern adventure any GM could potentially write.
The Funnel was written once, and it has to work the same for every character sent into the Funnel. Every combination of attributes and occupation and player personality and party composition needs to be accounted for.
But even the most inexperienced GM improv can account for details. They can yes-and their player's ideas, or tweak events to be more personal, or invent specific reasons why a scribe, farmer, and ratcatcher might be sent on their mission. They might not try, or they might fail, but any GM can potentially do better, and most would have pretty good odds even without a session 0.
Off-the-shelf adventures _always_ suck for character-based storytelling, because _their stories can't be about specific characters._
@@timothymclean Let me address your points in order:
> The Funnel doesn't "generate character backstory" in any way that some guy calling for adventurers in the tavern doesn't.
There is absolutely a difference between dropping characters in a situation against their will and them picking up a random quest. In the second scenario, they already are adventurers and willing to go along with it. However, both can work equally well as a backstory, because a funnel adventure is essentially pitting characters that are not adventurers against a life-or-death situation, with the goal of emerging as someone who has the determination and skill to tackle those odds in the future and has trusted companions to do so with. The random NPC quest can be something like a dare to spend a night in the village's haunted manor, the point is that the effect on the characters is the same.
> First off, it's not really backstory since it's actually happening in play.
Technically, not, however, what is a backstory than simply a list of events and NPC interactions that caused your character to become an adventurer? The only difference is that you are actually playing through it, allowing dice to decide the outcome, rather than writing it like a book. Many GMs advocate for playing through the character's backstory in any case.
> Second, it's only a good way to generate character backstories if the Funnel or tavern guy happen to provide a setting and plot for good character storytelling.
That is fully on the GM really, but again, the adventure itself provides the difficult situation, and the reactions of the characters to that situation are what generates character storytelling.
> Third, I don't see how either could work if you don't have some character backstory ahead of time. Without some idea who your character is at the start of the Funnel or when he enters the tavern, how can you wring any story out of that? How can you create character within the adventure without first bringing character into it?
In the case of a funnel, the usual character backstory is that 'they are a commoner of this specific profession that has led a normal life up to this point.' That is all the backstory anyone needs to start a funnel, since the interactions between characters and reactions of the characters to the dangerous situation they are in during the funnel provide further backstory. Again, backstory is about what happened prior to the character becoming an adventurer that willingly goes to dangerous places and fights monsters for fun and profit.
> Further, I'd argue that the Funnel is guaranteed to be no better than a random tavern adventure any GM could potentially write.
This is a moot point, since a GM that does their job well will not run any scenario as-is straight out of the book, but use it as a springboard to create something for their group, including improvising things on the fly.
> The Funnel was written once, and it has to work the same for every character sent into the Funnel. Every combination of attributes and occupation and player personality and party composition needs to be accounted for.
From what I understand, funnels are written differently to regular adventures in the way that they are supposed to be deadly and rely more on player skill than character abilities (because they have none).
> But even the most inexperienced GM improv can account for details. They can yes-and their player's ideas, or tweak events to be more personal, or invent specific reasons why a scribe, farmer, and ratcatcher might be sent on their mission. They might not try, or they might fail, but any GM can potentially do better, and most would have pretty good odds even without a session 0.
Again, this is true for any pre-written adventure module. And a funnel adventure is equally one when written by a GM for a specific group, and when adapted from an idea someone else had.
> Off-the-shelf adventures always suck for character-based storytelling, because their stories can't be about specific characters.
I am getting the feeling that your beef is with published adventures being run straight out of the box without any modification, rather than specifically with the funnel style.
I LOVE Dungeon Crawl Classics. It’s my favorite OSR game and my favorite “generic fantasy” game (if that makes sense)
I understand the impetus behind pointing out potential stereotypes, but I find that that sort of thing is rarely a good idea. It leads to "any negative trait I see in fantasy is somehow real world bigotry" which is an easy way to make yourself look bad.
It's like the "Orcs remind me of black people" controversy. Where you have an evil and violent fantasy race, and then someone tries to draw the parallel between them and people of African descent, because some racists think that they're more violent than normal? Nobody is fighting orcs in tabletop and becoming more racist, nobody is fighting orcs in tabletop and using that as justification for real world racism. In the same vein, Dwarves being able to smell gold is just funny? Like, it's not even being portrayed negatively. Dwarves are usually portrayed as generally good, people like pretending to be them for a reason. Like, what's the angle here? That because Dwarves can smell gold, people are going to start hating Jewish people? or that people who already dislike Jewish people are going to see it as a dogwhistle or something? Bringing it up just looks conspiratorial. There's no possible way that it can really affect any kind of bad outcome, other than it maybe reminding you of something negative, in which case TTRPGs might not be for you at all, considering that they're about playing a group of murderers who kill people and take their stuff, and plots typically revolve around people being murdered and kidnapped by X Y and the Z.
Either way, just a sour note on an otherwise good video. Again, I understand your reasoning, I just think it was the wrong call.
Nibelungen dwarves are less noble. They are greedy little lecherous crafters. They adore beauty in crafts and people but covet it and lock it away.
Current polls to measure antisemitism include the small stuff. The NSDAP was able to build their stuff on little ideas that seemed harmless on their own. There was a sort of background antisemitism in Europe that just didn't reach full Kristallnacht level.
A questionnaire might poll people if they think Jews are more loyal to Israel than their home nation, if Jews should be allowed to marry into your family, if the Jews have undue media influence.
People at the time who believed there was an international sionist movement all Jews were loyal to could still be shocked by the Kristallnacht brutality and think that was too far. And then fret if their country could handle Jewish refugees.
@@SusCalvin IDK most of that just sounds like a slippery slope argument.
Most people don't even make the connection between "haha funny dwarf smell gold" and Jews at all.
Your argument only makes sense if everyone is already antisemetic, in which case it makes no difference.
Pointing it out just makes you look weird for even having made the association in the first place.
Not even going to sugarcoat it. I do not like the J's.
Not even **I** saw the Dwarf J connection.
He's actually looking for it.
Would you be more specific in how you get the rolls of 6, 20 and 22 using your d30 method please? You said you use a 3 in the tens place instead of a d10, but I'm confused by how the outcomes are obtained there. Thank you in advance.
How I get a result of 1-30 via dice is rolling 1d10 and 1d6. On a 1-2 on the d6 you just read the d10, on a 3-4 on the d6 you just add 10 to the d10 result, and on a 5-6 on the d6 you add 20 to the d10 result.
Gnomes and half-elves did in fact get the Basic treatment. Gnomes appeared in Creature Crucible 2: Top Ballista, where they have a flying city, and half-elves were statted out as a class in a Dragon Magazine article exploring the world of Mystara
Half-Elves of Mystara are, interestingly, a created race that partially resembles both humans and elves, as no races in Mystara can interbreed (unless noted as an exception somewhere I haven't heard of) and that includes humans and elves not being cross-fertile like almost every other setting ever.
My favorite DnD book ever
I can understand the appeal of Dungeon Crawl Classics but I don't think I'd want to run a long form campaign with it. If I was going to run it I'd run it for a one shot maybe a level 2 or 3 campaign but not much longer then that. Also I don't like Races counting as Classes, that's just weird imo.
I'd rather a system like this did away with all the non-humans, or took away all the human's classes. You are Man, Elf, Dwarf, and Hobbit or you are Fighting Man, Magic User, Expert Treasure Finder, and Holy Crusader.
Races Only:
Can Men use magic? Yes, if they read it from a book or scroll, and are unusually wise; can Elves use magic? Yes, and will intuit the ways of magic without active teaching. Can Dwarves use magic? Yes, but only the slow deliberate sort to set up wards and alarms and craft items of great wonder, nothing you can just whip out in the middle of an adventure. Can Halflings use magic? No, they're the down to earth sorts, but do seem better able to resist the influences of magic on their persons. All humans of decent strength or dexterity are warriors, all humans of high intelligence can be wizards but need not be if they don't want to seek wizardly equipment like books and staves over the reliable protections of sword, shield, or bow.
Classes Only:
If any of you aren't humans, you're close enough that we have no rules to represent this. You may have a distant fairy grandparent or the blood of giants in your line, but the important thing is less where you came from, and more what you can DO.
13:00 I guess I can see that as a jewish stereotype, but it's kinda a dwarven one too. At least there are some norse stories about how dwarfs love gold.
23:20 book from the 1930s?
The Hobbit, essentially the basis for the entirety of modern fantasy... via D&D "Borrowing" _heavily_ from Tolkien's work for its lore.
@@zigmenthotep Ah, makes sense. I thought something else when you said book.
@@zigmenthotep I have never heard of Tolkien saying that dwarves are based on jews, like ever.
Tolkien recognized it as a Jewish stereotype when he made Dwarves and based several aspects of Dwarves off Hebrews (Letter 176). They spoke a language heavily inspired by Hebrew (Khuzdul), they were a displaced people without a land of their own and they were distinct, but still related, to Tolkien's Christian framework of Middle-earth, to represent the differences but relation between Judaism and Christianity.
It's entirely possible the stereotype was based off Jews before him, though. A lot of iconic dwarf characteristics notably did not begin appearing until well into the Viking era despite dwarf stories predating that. People seem to not realize Norse and Germanic people had a not-great history with Jewish people since at least the Roman Republic era.
@@amelialonelyfart8848 That's fair. My knowledge on the subject is very loose. And some of the stories that I know were around where outside religions and perspectives were influencing them.
I mean I think the story I might have been thinking at the time was Sigurð slaying Fáfnir. ... the parallels are unfortunately very obvious now, to me.
At the very least when I think dwarves I just think the greatest craftsmen of armor and weapons and the best builders of stone structures.
I had no idea that Jews could smell gold.
It's not like it'd be a negative thing if they could.
That's what the liberal mainstream media is hiding from you.
Huh. I have watched a number of videos about DCC over the last couple years, and I have purchased and read through the DCC book, Hubris, and Lankhmar. I have not yet played DCC (but soon...), but all that said, I have not heard the thing about dwarves being able to smell gold as a Jewish stereotype. But it's a stereotype about dwarves, and dwarves aren't Jewish. So, the thing about halflings being lucky and good with dual-wielding knives, is that a short people stereotype? 🤔
Halfling = Irish. Always after me lucky charms!
I thought Dwarf gold-smelling was a reference to mythical Nordic dwarves. Which were more like a type of old-school faerie, living under mountains, and some of those old legends said they could do that. I'm a bit alarmed that the vid creator would just instantly jump to the conclusion he did. That's not a good look in his case.
@@NefariousKoel What source do you have that from? I don't remember reading that they could literally smell gold anywhere and searching in both English and Norwegian didn't give any relevant results.
@@NefariousKoelThose are lecherous, greedy little pricks who covet beauty. In items they make, in people.
Bro where did you get Dwarf smells gold = Jew??? Where did that even come from? Ive always seen Dwarves as more Scottish (thanks Gimli) or German (Warhammer)
It came from J. R. R. Tolkien, probably before him. He very much based Dwarves off Jews. Their language is based off Hebrew, they are a displaced people, they're separate but still related to his Christian-inspired cosmological-theological system. He went as far as to say it in Letter 176.
Interesting you didn't mention stillborn characters. When you get a negative bonus on stamina and roll low enough on the d4, your character is considered to have died stillborn and you can either accept that or roll a new one.
I don't think that's a thing in dcc. I'm pretty sure they just say minimum of 1
Could you make a Kamigakari character?
I'm disappointed that they don't use the weird odd-number dice, d7, d9, d11, etc.
Also, Have you made Cyberpunk character yet? I can't seem to find it on your channel.
I'm pretty sure the aim was to specifically use the Gamescience dice-going as far as to call them “Zocchi dice”-which include d3, d5, d7, d14, d16, d20, and d24, but not d9 or d11.
As for Cyberpunk, It's just not something I remember exists often.
@@zigmenthotep That's fair enough, Pretty much any time I try to search for it, I just get stuff about the video game, even if I put "-2077"
OSR games aren't really my thing, buuuuuuut I love funnels as a one shot.
Throwing a bunch of doods into a fun house by way of Jigsaw sounds like a hoot for a night.
When someone once asked if his Dwarves were Jewish stereotypes, Tolkien said "If so, that would be flattery to my Dwarves, not an insult to the Jews." And as Mr. Welch has shown, what you really need for cultural sensitivity isn't people to check for possible offense, but to ask people _from_ that culture what they think is cool, epic, and over the top heroic and embody _those_ stereotypes in your important characters to a setting. Make your heroes and villains from a fantasy culture as much like the heroes and villains said culture's real world inspiration would have written or recounted stories about! Don't be afraid to offend the perpetually offended, they weren't going to like you trying to have fun anyway.
National stereotypes in Europe were used by the states to tap hatred on and off. You don't need to hate the French all the time, just absorb that the French are fundamentally different. Those peasants just across the river are now super different peasants and the far-off crown is your friend.
What's the problem with rolling d24? You roll a d6. If it's 4+, you use d12+12, otherwise just d12. It's one roll and either you add 12 or not.
The most problematic one would be d14 since it requires 4+ on d6 to substitute for d2 and a d8 with a reroll of 8 to substitute for d7. But honestly if rolling d8 for d7 is acceptable, then adding d2 isn't too much of an added hustle.
2d12 makes a bell curve. Which you might like or not for a roll.
Rolling 3d6 for attributes intentionally makes a bell curve where 18 and 3 are rare.
@@SusCalvin that's not what I meant. I propose a single d12 plus a coin toss. If it's heads, you leave your single d12 result as is. If it's tails you add +12 to that same d12 result. Thus you get 24 outcomes from you d12&d2 double roll.
@@StanNotSoSaint Gotcha. Yeah, there are workarounds for a lot of the funky dice. But the more there are and the harder it is to get a d30 the more operations I got to add. I could keep rolling a d3-1x10 + 1d10 for the d30 but do I want to five-ten times in a row.
@@SusCalvin sure thing. That's troublesome if you need to do it lots of those. Depends on the rules though. If you need to make just a roll or two per turn, it's far less egregious. But if you roll for every little thing, it sure would get bothersome quickly.
I get coming across a system that feels wrong to you at first glance (based on initial ignorance), but man this “review” is based on a haughty combination of wrong information, outdated information and significant leaps of logic based on broad and untested assumptions. The current version of the core rules changed a lot of outdated and potentially offensive language (stuff that was never included to court controversy). 8th printing, for example, eliminated the mentioned halfling occupation. Also the way funnels play out, contrary to your assumption, does not actually tend to benefit the statistically best character. This is from a person who’s played and run many funnels. Also the hard line the system allegedly takes about 3d6 “down the line” for stat generation is clarified in the same section to be a stylistic choice. It’s not in any way a hard rule that’s inviolable. That’s a huge difference between the design intentions implied in 5e (the rules are law) and that of DCC and basically all OSR systems (rules are made to be adjusted to the table’s whim). It’s annoying to see such half baked “gotcha” attacks leveled at any game, particularly one that has built such a robust and inclusive community. So many of your assumptions could be easily clarified if you bothered to spend even a few minutes on any community forums or perhaps even watching any of the voluminous online content from both fans and Goodman.
5e's design intentions aren't "the rules are law", it's that half of the community has made it so that way. It's an outcome of the popularity of online content revolving around rules mastery and character builds, and thus leading to players highly adverse to "table's whim" play (anti-fudging, not accepting the monsters at your table might not follow the book's lore, acting as if you can't play a different alignment than what the books tell you is the usual for your race, etc, for example).
Man, people being squeamish on my behalf is always a tad annoying. I give Dwarves a pass. They can sniff as much gold as they want. That's pretty metal. Never knew I was supposed to be offended, until Twitter told me so, really.
Your local lizardman.
Of course the weird dice are unnecessary, it's just that dice = fun! That said, the provide simple instructions for playing without the weird dice if you like.
Re: Character Classes, their plan was to publish an Annual publication that would offer expanded classes, gods, patrons, etc. And they did produce one annual, but so much excellent 3rd-party and player produced work came out that they stopped making the annuals. The Gong Farmers Almanac (several versions have been printed) contains many, many optional character classes as do some of the adventure worlds that have been created. And don't forge that MCC is fully compatible, so you can use those classes too.
The Goodman Games folks are actually quite sensitive to issues around equity. It's not practical or desirable to rebuild an entire fantasy world around the sensitives of a few unhappy people. I hope they don't join hands with WoTC and Paizo, and other organizations that are destroying their own games. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.
The only way I played it was a level 0 one-shot. It was pretty fun, but it didn't really feel like RPG altogether... More like some board game (perhaps because I don't care much for winning or losing at these, as long as won't have to leave mid-game if I don't play well enough, like in Mafia). Also, we played one character at a time; playing four characters at once in MCC (as it's intended in DCC as well) was pretty tedious.
The crew managed to play a big squadron of five level naughts each. 20-25 in total. If you are used to playing with a goon squad it's no different, except you are all goons.
Act the OSR is loaded with creative.
The problem is the retro clones are always the ones that get promoted the most.
Yeah to find the good OSR games you have to go in real deep. Most OSR games that ever get talked about are retro clones, very bigoted or sexist in some way, or AI-generated slop now.
Do Castles & Crusades next.
You should make a video about Age of Heroes 5th edition.
Whenever I hear OSR now, I think "I don't understand what this thing is?" probably because I don't actually play modern RPGs that much (though have been running Abomination Vaults recently with Pathfinder 2e) and really play in the OSR 'style' I suppose. Though never did like the 'oh, you're just dead because your dice hates you' method. People told me online to not fub rolls, but when you're playing GURPS and your character can take a long time to tweak just right, I'm not very likely to just kill you off based on some lucky / unlucky rolls... But maybe that's just me, I'd rather keep a player in the game and having fun then to just say 'sorry dude, you're dead.' It was a huge difference when, with other games, you can roll up a new character in a few minutes.
Hmm, this is completely not like I thought it would be.. o.o I'll stay with Fantastic Heroes & Witchery.
Which 1930s book? Not The Hobbit is it?
Take a nap.
As an Israeli, that jew stereotype comment about dwarves kinda came out of left field. Dwarves can smell gold Nothing was inheritly racist, and you made it about my race. I had no issues with the dwarfs ability as I ,as a jew, dont have infared vision or have a history of mining. Really disappointed and soured the video and this channel.
As an American Jew, I've seen the "dwarves as Jewish stereotypes" thing before. It might be more of a thing over here, but he didn't make it up.
I'm sorry I wasn't prepared to read the words "As a Jew, don't have infrared vision." got a good chuckle out of me.
Hot take, but I think if you're going to be rolling for stats, it should be roll in order. If you get to assign the rolls to the stats you want, then all you're rolling for is how good the character is, and that's dumb. If you want to build a specific character, then character creation shouldn't have any randomness at all.
I had some good times playing DCC. Now a game that plays similarly as DCC, Dungeon World, D&D and 4AD with the best combined rules is called
D100 Dungeon by MK Games from Martin Knight. I love D100 Dungeon!
Do the wizard and do dying earth please
Great and interesting video. But to be honest. The entire idea of retro clones is to keep it simple. 5th ed is a great game but combat and such takes way to long. I don't think there should be new classes. DCC has a unique take on OSR with fun adventures, chaotic rules and funky dices.
It's almost like the conservative grognards who like OSR came to debate your not especially conservative view of it.
It was a fine video for the rest of us.
I don’t think anyone saw a real world stereotype until you decided to highlight it as one. This was a great video up until you made it racist.
I never associated dwarves smelling gems and gold and love counting coins with Jews. I think that's on you. This is the first I've ever heard of such thing. It sounds like how liberals say Tolkien was racist for how depicted Orcs. If racism is your worldview, that's how you see the world. That's still on you. Don't assume that everyone else is racist like you.
I'm gonna be like that, but ascending armor class (AAC) is just not objectively better than descending armor class (DAC). What's "best" is what you like to use the most and prefer when actually playing. Thus it's fair to say that AAC is best for you and your table, but that goes the other direction too. It's okay to not like DAC, but to say that AAC is "objectively better" is just incorrect.
No. It's objectively better.
You're the one who made the associate between smelling gold an Jews. I'd say that says more about you than it does about them.
No. That is not correct.
Went from Germanc folklore to THE JEWS! real quick there i see.
That Jewish stereotype take was pretty dumb, NGL.
Just discovered your channel, nice. Sub'd. And choosing a Flumph as an avatar is just based.
"The good kind of OSR" is such a gross comment. I appreciate that old RPGs are different, and you might not find them worth your time, but letting them disappear out of print forever because the rights holders can't make any money on them, and the original print runs are becoming rarer (and harder to understand) isn't a stance I can get behind. Publications like OSE or Mutant Future that collect, reorganize for clarity, and reprint rules for old games are a fantastic resource for people interested in exploring the history of RPGs.
Why bring up the Jewish references and take a slow disappointed crawl through it
It kinda seems like the game is designed for quick and dirty one shots, but also for long-term campaigns at the same time? It seems like those two directions clash with each other.
I have had campaigns that were basically a series of one-shots with the same characters progressing through them. It's definitely possible, and that series of one-shots can quickly unfold into a wider campaign depending on what the players do.
I mean, dwarves are creatures of the earth, it's not crazy they can smell precious metals. Will you find it offensive that rust monsters can smell iron too? You people always looking for something...
As a Jew, I don't find this the least bit offensive. Dwarves may have originally been based on Jews, but they certainly grew out of those stereotypes in modern fantasy. The addition of the ability to smell gold and gems doesn't strike me as insensitive, but rather as something that really sits well as an ability of a subterranean race, in the context of a game that is all about going out on adventure and amassing huge amounts of treasure.
Yes it is, metals have no smell
@@3_14pie I assume you mean it as a joke lol but yeah metals are often referenced to be detected by smell in fantasy games.
@@HCSR2 it is a joke, I don't actually care if they smell metal, though they should have chosen some other method to detect, maybe something that metals have, instead of smell
@@acemcjack They are certainly not based on Jews but were connected to Jews mostly in the 19th century.
I’m sure this game is a lot of fun but I won’t ever play it. I’m not buying a bunch of weird dice just for this one game.
This looks more like a boardgame than a ttrpg, I like making a character with whatever I got, though this game doesn't look like it want to make a character at all, just a pile of numbers...
Gonna get technical.
Im of the opinion that OSR is a very specific and trchnical term that *only* should be about returning to or emulating (via retroclones) older dnd. Being inspired by it and doing your own thing should be categorized under the broader umbrella of oldschool gaming in general. still cool, just not OSR.
Retroclone and OSR are different terms for a reason. Black Hack is OSR but not a retro clone. Old School Essentials is both.
You could have left the Jewish stuff out.
Dwarfs liking gold is a Jewish stereotype? Lmao touch grass dude.
A level 2 Chaotic (essentially evil) Wizard is called a Shaman. I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt with "just exaggerating D&D"
Well Shaman was also the title for a third-level anti-cleric in original D&D, so it's possible.
Chaotic is not evil. Chaotic means 'opposed to organized civilization.' This can mean 'doing bad things to people' but it can also mean 'heading off into the wilderness to live in a small community not beholden to the king.' The shaman is quite clearly an example of the latter.
If you read that Dwarves can smell gold and think of Jews, you're the problematic one, not the book. You clearly had that on your mind.
I'd say the benefit of the funnel isn't either (1) it randomises character selection or (2) it lets you pick the one you like - it's that it gives you both options at once. You know right off the bat which of your characters you want to play? Cool, try your best to keep them alive! On the contrary, you have three generic characters you have no particular preference for? No problem, play them for a bit in this deadly sandbox and maybe some personality will emerge that helps you pick a favourite, or maybe they'll just die off until the decision is made for you.
You say Jewish stereotype, but not lie; jewly noted
I feel like DCC was made by incels. I will give them the benefit of the doubt as they are trying to capture the old dnd style, and Gygax isn't someone you should look up to. But come on, its been 50 years since those first books, we can move past races as class, either don't have fantasy races playable, or make it separate from class. Its not a core part of the game, it was a decision made by closed minded people who where bad at understanding the thing they made. You can be old school, but still benefit from modern ideas.
The Funnel is mainly about being edgy and feeling cool how your game is more hardcore and brutal than the D&D and you can pat yourself on the back about it. OSR just really loves waxing poetic about how player characters are dirt farmers and peasants who aren't in any way special, its basically part of the aesthetic.
WFRP is the main game for stevedores, coalers, militia and students. PCs in there remain squishy.
A standard humanoid monster is equal to a level 1 or 2 fighter. You are not weak, the world is just at your level at the start.
We found the funnel to not be that deadly. A few of the 25 goons were chomped but most became level 1 heroes. It depends on the adventure.
I'm a fan of OSR games and the style they embody, but DCC is honestly probably my least favorite OSR game. The things everyone likes about it are the things I don't like; it's a little too gonzo wacky for me and I'm not a fan of having to have a special set of dice for my RPG. I do think there's some cool stuff to take from it; the magic system is great if you want to make magic really wacky and I absolutely snatched up copies of the Mighty Deed section on its own and I'm more than happy to let any martial in any game use a similar system. But overall when I dive into the OSR, I really want a simple system that gives me more freedom to just make calls and create my own stuff and I feel like DCC goes the other way where it wants a huge tome of rules to represent every possible outcome (and to fit all their gigantic tables). I'm looking for Basic and ironically DCC leans more towards Advanced, not in the sense that it is literally inspired by Advanced DnD (it's not), but in the sense that there's two big stereotypes of OSR games; extremely simple pamphlets and absolutely gigantic tomes, and if I'm gonna have to pick one of the two, I'm more of a pamphlet guy.
That said, I'm really glad you liked it! I think a lot of OSR games come with an inherent debuff from people who aren't already invested in that corner of the hobby so I was really expecting it to just be a lot of "grumble grumble old game bad!" but you were extremely fair to it, which it seems like you usually are but it's always nice to point out when it happens.
DCC adventures like to mutate PCs. Dinosaurs and time travellers and lamb demons are nice but DCC throws them in everywhere. The funky dice are hard to get.
A weird amount of people being like “What no the money hungry Jew is totally not a real ancient stereotype, you made that up in this video!” In these comments.
I think it's more, at least for me, that not every instance of a person or type of creature being greedy and liking gold is a reference to Jews. Like, is Mr. Krabs based on Jewish stereotypes because he loves money?
You jumping to calling smelling gold a Jewish stereotype is a you thing. Frankly, thst type if virtue signaling is also very disingenuous.
Shame on you.
There's definitely a few more *sigh* problematic elements that very much feel like they're out of ignorance but are still definitely there like usage of the g slur, with "halfling g slurs" being a rollable occupation with like, fortune telling accoutrements iirc.
Yeah, I had a feeling I didn't pick dwarf and find the only problematic element in the book.
I had no idea that Jews could smell gold.