Vowel+R #6: NORTH & FORCE & MORAL
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- This one gets a little more complicated again, partially because most English speakers don't make a distinction between NORTH and FORCE... but then some do... I can't tell the difference instinctually, so it's something I have to look up whenever I'm coaching an accent that requires knowing that distinction. I also hit on the NORTH subset of MORAL, which is one that occurs more commonly as a distinction, but not for most American speakers.
You can find Generican (Generic American) materials at www.accenthelp...
#IPA #accenthelp #NORTH #FORCE #MORAL #generalamerican #accents #lexicalsets
I've waited so much for this! And I adore your dad jokes.
I've noticed in some Cajun, African American and gulf coast accents, the " force " vowel is pronounced more like " oe "
Floor can be pronounced as flow
More can be moe
Board = bode
And at least for words that have "ore" or "oard", it sorta makes sense when you drop the r that the vowel would be pronounced like that.
This is called the door-dough merger fo sho
My family's gulf coast & appalachian accents become tonal when we crank it to 7-8 or so.
In addition to floor and flow merging, they're only rising tone away from float! (Not the t becoming glottal stop, and rising pitch doesn't = question for us)
Oh, and why don't we call th-stopping the though-dough merger when talking about Americans 🤣
Thank you, Mr. Jim. for great video.
If I'm not mistaken, the older non-rhotic Southern American accent distinguishes North, Force, and Moral. Not many accents do this today, possibly conservative Irish speakers and some holdovers in the American South.
Agreed!
The Boston accent (maybe only conservative/older speakers now) usually makes a distinction between “horse” and “hoarse”. “horse” uses the merged cot-caught vowel, so /hɒːs/, and “hoarse” is /hɔəs/ I think.
Also there are places in the north and midlands of England that still make the distinction. Off the top of my head I can say there are parts of Greater Manchester where the merger isn’t complete.
@@anonymoususer2756 I think you're thinking of the Maine accent. Either way, I was talking about a three-way distinction with North, Force, and Moral. Maine and Boston, like Scotland, have the cot-caught merger. "North" is the "caught" vowel before r and "moral" is the "cot" vowel before r. Some Northern English accents can definitely make the 3-way distinction though.
@@albertlouisher Yeah. You’re right. I think part of the reason it’s so rare for accents to have three different vowels in “aural”, “choral” and “moral” is because accents without the horse-hoarse merger also tend to be cot-caught merged (for example eastern New England, India and Scotland), and so use one vowel in LOT, THOUGHT and NORTH, and another in GOAT and FORCE. However, not all Scottish English speakers have the cot-caught merger, so there will also be places in Scotland that have a three-way distinction.
Another very similar, somewhat analogous, three-way merger happens in General American where the vowels of NURSE, CURE and STRUT (before R) are all merged, such that “hurry”, “furry” and “jury” rhyme (not for all Americans though since “jury” is also pronounced with the GOOSE vowel). However, the FOOT vowel is also part of this merger, so for the vast majority of Americans and Canadians “courier” and “currier” are homophones, where in RP they’re different.
Yeah, " north " in a non-rhotic southern accent tends to be " nooath" or " noth ", " force " in some black and Cajun accents tends to be " foece " and " moral " is pronounced with the same o as in " hot "
Alot of the east and gulf coast accents pronounce the o in words like " Florida " " horrible " and " moral " the same as in the words " hot " and " gone ".
2:56 Mike Tysonin'.
You mentioned that in RP, the START and NORTH vowels are commonly not diphthongs. You might be interested to know that in modern RP (for speakers under 65 or so -- my observation), the diphthongs /ɪə/, /ʊə/ and /ɛə/ have pretty much all become long monophthongs except in deliberate speech or in some utterance-final cases. This means the whole class of centring diphthongs has been replaced with long monophthongs. This pleases me for its symmetry.
Nothing like an organized accent. The schwa has always been quite minor in these, so it makes sense that in less stressed moments they would go away completely - but perhaps it will be almost complete elimination soon!
This is a big focus of Dr. Geoff Lindsey’s restructuring of the Standard Southern British vowel system. You should check it out.
The /ʊə/ dipthong has died out in SSB and become a completely different o: diphthong. Creating a poor= pour merger in most british accents
Hi
I,m from Iran and my only touchstones of british and american english are BBC world new and CNN, I haven't listened to local accents that much.
My question is about these example words that you have explaned throughout vowel+R videos " hurry, merry, Marry, marry and moral ". All of them have 2 syllabes and R forms the onset of the second syllable therefore we don't have a rhotic vowel here and we shoudn't use this symble ə^, instead we should use the inverted r after the syllabe break. the only time that the vowel is rhotic is when vowel+R is in the same syllabe and make up the rhyme of the syllabe. In examples above the vowel is the nucleus of the first syllable, and the syllable break happens and then the R is the coda of the second syllable. It should not be considerd as a rhotic vowel or viwel+R thing.
Could you please explane this?
Thankyou.
The way to transcribe them varies a bit from one person to another, but you're correct that many would use the turned-r in the second syllable, so it wouldn't technically be vowel+R. That said, the way many Americans actually say these words, the R sound does "pollute" or affect the vowel before it, so it's not fully appropriate, accurate, or representative to transcribe it with the /r/ in a separate syllable.
Hello, for a before n sound in the word (and /ænd/) is the sound like
/ɛnd/ or /ɛənd/ and ( pan /pæn/) like /pɛn / or /pɛən/ . Thank you.
Check out this video: ua-cam.com/video/e1xarXAs29w/v-deo.html
@@AccentHelp i watched this video before but i hope with example for every word with narrow transcription . Thank you.
I've always thought the vowel in 'North' sounded much closer to /o/ anyway...
I know that most Americans, at least the ones that I've heard, say "tomorrow", "sorry" and "borrow" with the "ar as in far", just like the "New York horrible", but other than that, I think most people will actually say the rest of the words with that pattern with "or as in more". Right? Unless your Canadian, so you probably going to say everything with "or", hahaha
In most of america the rest of these words will be pronounced with the 'or in more', but New York and many East Coast accents have a similar system to the UK where words like 'horrible', 'historical' and 'orange' are pronounced with the 'lot' vowel.
However what makes this a bit confusing is that Americans also use their 'lot' vowel for 'a' in words like 'car' or 'park'. This creates a 'Sari- Sorry' merger which doesn't exist in the UK.
Hi, I'm Canadian, and my name is Laurie, which to me is just another way of spelling Lori. (That is, the au is pronunce o.) In a discussion group I belonged to, some USian people insisted that Lori was pronounced with an o sound, while Laurie was pronounced with an ah sound, the same as Lari. Whaaaat? Horrible.
That is true - for some people, depending on their region. But it's your name, so you can let them know how it's properly pronounced. If they don't do that, this is sometimes called an "asshole."
The American system is closer to the British system in that some will use a 'lot' vowel for words like Laurie, especially in East Coast accents. On the other hand Canadia has completely undergone a sound change where there is no 'lot' vowel before 'r' anymore even before words like 'sorry', instead they use a 'glory' vowel. It's unfortunate that Americans mispronounce your name at the same time the American system is more conservative and closer to the British system, especially in East Coast accents. However it does merge with 'Lari' in American accents but not in Britain
@@laurierend However what makes this a bit confusing is that Americans also use their 'lot' vowel for 'a' in words like 'car' or 'park'. This creates a 'Sari- Sorry' merger which doesn't exist in the UK.
subtitula los videos al español
It’s illogical to write ‘o’ just to capture lip rounding. The difference between [o] and the half-O (the mirrored c) is one of height, not lip-rounding. It really annoys me that people think they can ‘play around’ with symbols as they wish, according to their own personal definitions. For the past few decades, phonetics and phonology has ceased to be a science, but merely a word game of signs and symbols with no common meaning. A ‘phonemic craze’, as one old phonetician put it.
Phonology has always been just that, to be honest. But I do agree on phonetic.
but usually more rounding than half-o is true.
Wait, but [◌̹] is an IPA diacritic for increased roundedness.
easy old pal. this is just a more simple guide for non-academic people who wish to become actors.
This was hilarious! Thank you for making all of this /mɔɚ/ fun.
Sup, Dayvin! Great to see the squad here.