What do you think of the theory that Tarbosaurus bataar is an Asian T. rex? Given the ages, it's possible... If that were the case, though, what is Zuchengtryannus magnus...?
Another great, information-rich video! I love how much detail was provided about the context and significance of this discovery while also giving fair analysis to different ideas about the more controversial aspects. It even features a reassessment of an earlier video showing how paleontological views can change as we learn more about prehistory. These recent videos have definitely been worth the wait!
I guess Tyrannosaurus mcraeensis finally puts to rest the whole Tyrannosaurus originating in Asia & migrating into North America cause we now know the Tyrannosaurus genus was around during the Campanian, the same time as Tarbosaurus & Zhuchengtyrannus.
That shows nothing. You can still have tyrannosaurids older in Asia, and if they are found, the theory still sticks And it still sticks now, since the tyrannosaurids we know are already huge species, not smaller and less developed
@@SmashBrosAssembleyes but they still came from Asia, the tyrannosauroids must've migrated to north america, where the tyrannosaurids evolved then the tyrannosaurids moved back into Asia which is why we find things like tarbosaurus and zuchengtyrannus, which could also come from a common ancestor with tyrannosaurus, which explains why they existed at the same time and where found in a different place
@@SmashBrosAssemble I know I'm just saying they are still Asian dinosaurs who moved to America, even if their species did develop on America it's from a lineage of Asian ancestors.
I'm still a little upset that T.regina and T.imperator can't be used again as a result of that one study, I always thought T.regina was perfect for a second species of Tyrannosaurus.
@reiangossling6395 it didn't make any sense and that one study that you downplay as "that one study" refuted that three species claim out of the ballpark
I think this is becoming my favorite tyrannosaur. Tyrannosaurus Mcraeensis was situated not only southern US, but also Mexico in south laramidia. But i think Alamotyrannus is just T-Mac.
I’ve got some great ideas and some great suggestions for you to make UA-cam Videos Shows about some more Prehistoric Extinct Crocodilian Species, such as Lazarussuchus, Plesiosuchus, and Metriorynchus adding that to the episodes on the next Saturday on the next Chimerasuchus coming up next!!👍👍👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
I would posit that where you have large areas of lowlands you have larger dinosaurs. Perhaps there was mega herbivores in Hall lake, because unlike more northern Laramidia it was not a narrow strip of land between the rocky mountains and Western interior sea way. When the sea way started to drop all that new lowland could support mega herbivores and mega trex. This may also help to explain why Alamosaurus did not move north.
If you had to pick a lineage of predatory mammals, which would be most similar to tyrannosaurs in terms of speciation and length of evolutionary development? Big cats? Eagles?
Sorry but 0:15 seconds into the video and I find myself disagreeing with you. 🤣🤣🤣 Allow me to put my thoughts forwards. I do not think it was because of their heads being large that their arms evolved to compensate. From what we can tell Saurophaginax was about the size of a large carcharodontosaur, or tyrannosaur(I use the family name as I mean to highlight a consistent pattern). Compared to smaller tyrannosaurs like Albertosaurus it's head is quite large. And Albertosaurus(much like all other similarly sized tyrannosaurs) has comparatively tiny arms. My theory hinges on an assumption, which I believe is well supported: (asside from Megaraptors) The primary kill organ of a large therapod dinosaur is the jaws. In Abelisaurs and Tyrannosaurs they are using their heads for grappeling as adults. BUT in the Jurassic we have Ceratosaurs, Allosaurs, metriacanthosaurs and Megalosaurs(and later Yuityrannus) that are all heavily armed (ha ha) as in they both have very functional arms and jaws. This disappears somewhere in the early to midd Cretaceous. Which prompts the question, what do large therapods of the midd Jurassic to early/midd Cretaceus use their arms for which later creatures were not doing? And with that ground work, my theory is this: Stegosaurs. Stegosaurs went extinct through most of the globe by the later part of the earliest Cretaceous, but there is some evidence of them in the Ilek formation of Siberia into the Aptian and Albian. How would you want to bring down a stegosaur if you were a therapod? My thought is this, it has a long reach, area denial weapon on it's ass. Traditionally closing and grappeling is effective against such weapons. If you manage to get in close you want to stay there, as I suspect it's thagomisers cannot reach it's own flank you want to have big arms with big claws to hug your body against the stegosaur, and then bite with the jaws and wear it down in a battle of attrition. IF you are a head grappeler like an ableisaur or tyrannosaur(say an albertosaurus in this case) the stegosaurus may be able to pivot(a step or two with those long rear legs) and thagomise you about the tail or hips. Which is far from ideal. After Stegosaurs went extinct, only really megaraptors kept the large arms, and they were nowhere near as balanced between arm and jaw as an allosaur, metircanthosaur, ceratosaur or megalosaur.
Jack Horner suggested it, but that hypothesis has been debunked. Among other things, younger Torosaurus have been found and they are clearly different from Triceratops. In any event, since Triceratops was named first, if Horner was right then Torosaurus would have been an adult Triceratops.
@@chimerasuchus Ok, yeah i meant Torosaurus would have been an adult triceratops, i misspoke on that one. I didn't know we had found younger torosaurus since. I had heard a few paleontologists (Julien Benoit for exemple, he on youtube on the french channel "entracte science") were said the regina/rex/imperator felt really based on nothing but i hadn't heard the Triceratops/torosaurus had been debunked, thanks for that one ;)
Based on the description here, I'm kinda wondering why we're not calling it Tarbosaurus Macraeensis? Seems like its ckoser in age and appearance to Tarbosaurus than to Tyrannosaurus.
Well, mcraeensis and rex are both North American, while Tarbosaurus is Asian. To my knowledge only Saurolophus is known from both Asia and America at the end of the Cretaceous, so it’s just more likely for mcraeensis to be allied with the other giant North American tyrannosaurin (although Tarbosaurus being descended from Tyrannosaurus or originating in North America outright are very interesting and likely possibilities).
Thinking more about it, perhaps Tyrannosaurus mcraeensis represents the “original” condition for Tyrannosaurini? If both T. rex and the Asian tyrannosaurins descended from T. mcraeensis or a similar, as-of-yet unknown form or species (keep in mind, genera do not need to be completely monophyletic), then perhaps the Asian tyrannosaurins retained the original conditions of mcraeensis, while rex evolved its own traits.
@@GalvyTheTom if I recall correctly the paper concluded that T. rex is not descended from T. macraeensis as T. macraeensis has various automorphies that aren’t found in any other tyrannosaurs, making it a distinct off shoot rather than a direct descendent.
@@Saurophaganax1931 huh, that's interesting, and puts another tangle into tyrannosaurin evolution. In any case, there's still the geographical separation to account for. Besides, different species in a genus can look different in certain ways from other species in the genus and remain part of it (e.g. Smilodon populator has a very distinct appearance from the other Smilodon species, for instance).
@@GalvyTheTom yes but also two different species of the same genus can become seperated by vast geographical distances. I mean a Jaguar from South America is the same genus as a Lion from Africa yet they could not be further away from one another geographically. Same goes with wolves and coyotes that occupy every continent but Africa as well as bears and crocodiles that are spread across the world. Compared to that the distance from Laramidia to Mongola is relatively small. Pretty much just the Bering strait separating the two.
As if the Tyrannosaurid group couldn't get any more confusing
What do you think of the theory that Tarbosaurus bataar is an Asian T. rex? Given the ages, it's possible... If that were the case, though, what is Zuchengtryannus magnus...?
T-Rex & T-Mac.
T. Max was a helluva player when he was with the Toronto Raptor…
T-Rex and T-Bone
T-mac & cheese.
T Mac needs to gain traction! Forever gonna refer to them as Trex and Tmac now
Another great, information-rich video! I love how much detail was provided about the context and significance of this discovery while also giving fair analysis to different ideas about the more controversial aspects. It even features a reassessment of an earlier video showing how paleontological views can change as we learn more about prehistory. These recent videos have definitely been worth the wait!
I guess Tyrannosaurus mcraeensis finally puts to rest the whole Tyrannosaurus originating in Asia & migrating into North America cause we now know the Tyrannosaurus genus was around during the Campanian, the same time as Tarbosaurus & Zhuchengtyrannus.
That shows nothing. You can still have tyrannosaurids older in Asia, and if they are found, the theory still sticks
And it still sticks now, since the tyrannosaurids we know are already huge species, not smaller and less developed
@@LudwigVaanArthans
It does, it shows that Tyrannosaurines likely evolved in North America & then migrated into Asia instead of the inverse.
@@SmashBrosAssembleyes but they still came from Asia, the tyrannosauroids must've migrated to north america, where the tyrannosaurids evolved then the tyrannosaurids moved back into Asia which is why we find things like tarbosaurus and zuchengtyrannus, which could also come from a common ancestor with tyrannosaurus, which explains why they existed at the same time and where found in a different place
@@KhanArtist3
We’re not talking about Tyrannosauroidea as a whole, we’re talking about the Tyrannosaurines.
@@SmashBrosAssemble I know I'm just saying they are still Asian dinosaurs who moved to America, even if their species did develop on America it's from a lineage of Asian ancestors.
Trex: This is my older cousin, he's name is Mac, he is from the South.
This is a crazy development considering there's been a lot of "species-ing" amongst the T: T. Imperator, T. Regina, Nanotyrannus, etc.
The Tyrannosaurus Rex being three species has been debunked and refuted
@Texasmade74 that's what makes it fascinating that throughout all this noise, T. Mac comes out as a true new species
I'm still a little upset that T.regina and T.imperator can't be used again as a result of that one study, I always thought T.regina was perfect for a second species of Tyrannosaurus.
@reiangossling6395 it didn't make any sense and that one study that you downplay as "that one study" refuted that three species claim out of the ballpark
@@posticusmaximus1739 indeed
Thanks for another fantastic video, we appreciate you dude
I think this is becoming my favorite tyrannosaur. Tyrannosaurus Mcraeensis was situated not only southern US, but also Mexico in south laramidia. But i think Alamotyrannus is just T-Mac.
my favorite youtuber bar none - another great video
Haven't checked out this channel in a while, and come back to this amazing video. Can't wait to see what you cover next.
2024 is really the year of tyrannosaur
The year of the tyrant lizard!
Underrated comment.
Great video as always. I always look forwards to an update!
Great work! I have come to expect no less! 😀
While interesting, it seems a bit much of a story to draw from a fragmentary dentary, a few cranial frags and a handful of chevrons...
Purussaurus is coming?
Yes please!
So there is another therapod that could rival T. Rex. It just happens to be another Tyrannosaur.
Brilliant video, as always.
I'm going to make a prediction: Nanotyrannus will be accepted as a valid species relatively soon.
Great video, thankyou.
Another great video 😎
Now I know what the "Run For the Cube" guy does in his spare time.
nice video
I’ve got some great ideas and some great suggestions for you to make UA-cam Videos Shows about some more Prehistoric Extinct Crocodilian Species, such as Lazarussuchus, Plesiosuchus, and Metriorynchus adding that to the episodes on the next Saturday on the next Chimerasuchus coming up next!!👍👍👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
👍👍👍
yesssss thank you
I would posit that where you have large areas of lowlands you have larger dinosaurs. Perhaps there was mega herbivores in Hall lake, because unlike more northern Laramidia it was not a narrow strip of land between the rocky mountains and Western interior sea way. When the sea way started to drop all that new lowland could support mega herbivores and mega trex.
This may also help to explain why Alamosaurus did not move north.
A new therapod is found!
The media: It was bigger than a Trex!
No.
The media: Well it could have beaten a Trex!
Heads, eyes, noses, teeth, legs, arms, organs... We have much in common.
If you had to pick a lineage of predatory mammals, which would be most similar to tyrannosaurs in terms of speciation and length of evolutionary development? Big cats? Eagles?
For a second I thought the voiceover was a joke. He sounds like a cartoon.
The video is packed with 35 minutes of some of the most interesting and informative paleontology on UA-cam, and you choose to comment on the voice?
@@dinohall2595 Your royal nerdness.🤓🤓🤓
More bone crushers, yeay🎉
Sorry but 0:15 seconds into the video and I find myself disagreeing with you. 🤣🤣🤣
Allow me to put my thoughts forwards.
I do not think it was because of their heads being large that their arms evolved to compensate. From what we can tell Saurophaginax was about the size of a large carcharodontosaur, or tyrannosaur(I use the family name as I mean to highlight a consistent pattern). Compared to smaller tyrannosaurs like Albertosaurus it's head is quite large. And Albertosaurus(much like all other similarly sized tyrannosaurs) has comparatively tiny arms.
My theory hinges on an assumption, which I believe is well supported: (asside from Megaraptors) The primary kill organ of a large therapod dinosaur is the jaws.
In Abelisaurs and Tyrannosaurs they are using their heads for grappeling as adults. BUT in the Jurassic we have Ceratosaurs, Allosaurs, metriacanthosaurs and Megalosaurs(and later Yuityrannus) that are all heavily armed (ha ha) as in they both have very functional arms and jaws. This disappears somewhere in the early to midd Cretaceous.
Which prompts the question, what do large therapods of the midd Jurassic to early/midd Cretaceus use their arms for which later creatures were not doing?
And with that ground work, my theory is this:
Stegosaurs.
Stegosaurs went extinct through most of the globe by the later part of the earliest Cretaceous, but there is some evidence of them in the Ilek formation of Siberia into the Aptian and Albian.
How would you want to bring down a stegosaur if you were a therapod? My thought is this, it has a long reach, area denial weapon on it's ass. Traditionally closing and grappeling is effective against such weapons. If you manage to get in close you want to stay there, as I suspect it's thagomisers cannot reach it's own flank you want to have big arms with big claws to hug your body against the stegosaur, and then bite with the jaws and wear it down in a battle of attrition.
IF you are a head grappeler like an ableisaur or tyrannosaur(say an albertosaurus in this case) the stegosaurus may be able to pivot(a step or two with those long rear legs) and thagomise you about the tail or hips. Which is far from ideal.
After Stegosaurs went extinct, only really megaraptors kept the large arms, and they were nowhere near as balanced between arm and jaw as an allosaur, metircanthosaur, ceratosaur or megalosaur.
The video is actually watchable if you put it through a voice to text > text to voice (A.I.)!
Haven't Torosaurus and Triceratops been found to be the same species? with Triceratops being juvenile Torosaurus if i remember correctly.
Jack Horner suggested it, but that hypothesis has been debunked. Among other things, younger Torosaurus have been found and they are clearly different from Triceratops. In any event, since Triceratops was named first, if Horner was right then Torosaurus would have been an adult Triceratops.
@@chimerasuchus Ok, yeah i meant Torosaurus would have been an adult triceratops, i misspoke on that one. I didn't know we had found younger torosaurus since.
I had heard a few paleontologists (Julien Benoit for exemple, he on youtube on the french channel "entracte science") were said the regina/rex/imperator felt really based on nothing but i hadn't heard the Triceratops/torosaurus had been debunked, thanks for that one ;)
Mcraeencies size- 12m long & 9.2 tonnes
So. What you’re saying is. The Hell Creek was an offbrand.
Based on the description here, I'm kinda wondering why we're not calling it Tarbosaurus Macraeensis? Seems like its ckoser in age and appearance to Tarbosaurus than to Tyrannosaurus.
Well, mcraeensis and rex are both North American, while Tarbosaurus is Asian. To my knowledge only Saurolophus is known from both Asia and America at the end of the Cretaceous, so it’s just more likely for mcraeensis to be allied with the other giant North American tyrannosaurin (although Tarbosaurus being descended from Tyrannosaurus or originating in North America outright are very interesting and likely possibilities).
Thinking more about it, perhaps Tyrannosaurus mcraeensis represents the “original” condition for Tyrannosaurini? If both T. rex and the Asian tyrannosaurins descended from T. mcraeensis or a similar, as-of-yet unknown form or species (keep in mind, genera do not need to be completely monophyletic), then perhaps the Asian tyrannosaurins retained the original conditions of mcraeensis, while rex evolved its own traits.
@@GalvyTheTom if I recall correctly the paper concluded that T. rex is not descended from T. macraeensis as T. macraeensis has various automorphies that aren’t found in any other tyrannosaurs, making it a distinct off shoot rather than a direct descendent.
@@Saurophaganax1931 huh, that's interesting, and puts another tangle into tyrannosaurin evolution. In any case, there's still the geographical separation to account for. Besides, different species in a genus can look different in certain ways from other species in the genus and remain part of it (e.g. Smilodon populator has a very distinct appearance from the other Smilodon species, for instance).
@@GalvyTheTom yes but also two different species of the same genus can become seperated by vast geographical distances. I mean a Jaguar from South America is the same genus as a Lion from Africa yet they could not be further away from one another geographically. Same goes with wolves and coyotes that occupy every continent but Africa as well as bears and crocodiles that are spread across the world. Compared to that the distance from Laramidia to Mongola is relatively small. Pretty much just the Bering strait separating the two.
Stranger dinosaur
Sorry dude - but I prefer the episodes where you get another person to narrate. But I love the content :)
Unpopular opinion for sure
Jesus christ l can't listen to that