The bosses early were well tuned because the varience in character build is very low. So the best and worst builds had similar experiences and you could tune the bosses for that. As you continue through the game the difference between the best and worst builds widens significantlly and so the bosses are almost impossible to be a good "challenge" for everyone.
yeh, he's take is quite dumb, for someone like him that grinded his life on ARPGs to swing so much on his whining, oww the game is too hard, oww now the game is too easy, wtf, no gear = game bad, got some gear = game bad again because too easy, wtf?!
Not even close. I played 6 hrs last night and got one regal, no exalts, one artificer orb. The rares are a bit better but they definitely didn't go too far in my opinion.
@@bobinasack yeah definitely unlucky. Got two regals and a jewelers orb in an hour last night. 39 infernalist with zero issues concerning both loot and mob difficulty.
I got 1 exalt and 1 regal last night in 1 hour of straight playing. Loot is not too much. I work 10 hours a day. How much do I have to f*cking grind to get gear. So stfu about nerfing the loot. It's not loot pinata.
If you are no-lifing the game 12 hours a day loot may feel overtuned, but just fine for me as a normal person with a 9-5 job. Mobs feel powerful if you are not doing a meta build with guides, and same for bosses
@@joelhodoborgas yeah, having played arpg's for thousands of hours makes absolutely no difference. Thanks for the great insight. Love to hear more sweaty advice
No, just no. I played my ranger for almost 9 hours last evening, after the drop buffs, and I'm still on the L16 bow that I crafted 3 days ago and I'm L34 now. And I did not find anything worth keeping during my recent session. The buff to drops was much needed and only super hardcore guys like streamers who play 18 hours a day would want a nerf to that.
Tbh this. If they change things to cater to a streamer who plays 16hrs a day, imagine how hard it'll be for other players who can only get on a few hours a day (if that). The new drops are fine imo (lvl 42 ranger) and I finally have more than 4k gold from selling items.
I totally agree with Llama, the drop rate is getting out of hand... I'm level 60 and the amount of items I get is ridiculous! It's very rewarding and I HATE IT. Just remember this game is NOT for casual players... I don't think GGG should reward casual players at all.
@@callmejm3073the game is 100% factually catered towards more casual players than POE 1. Less complex passive tree most nodes are simple stat increases, voiced explanations for skills gems that has a video to go along with it, the ability to respec for gold, releasing the game in a 1-1 state on console, adding split screen couch co-op, much more simple crafting system, much less bloat in the end game, them increasing currency drop rates and loot drop rates and many more things that clearly show they are trying to cater to a more casual audience while also having engaging end game systems that keep more hardcore players hooked. You’re factually wrong. Go play POE 1 dude they’re gonna keep updating it no need to try and turn POE 2 into a reskin of POE 1 most people want a new game that feels different not a copy paste with better graphics.
@@zaiyas1408 You are totally WRONG about EVERYTHING! LOL... GGG didn't even want to buff drops, they made it just for the casual whiners! They didn't want any bad reviews about it. Look how they're going to nerf drops again, mark my words... GGG even says this game is going to be hard in everything... the only thing they're helping casual players with is explaining more about the game, that's all. You don't have a single word of common sense! I bet you're a Diablo 4 player, I can tell.
since the update i still haven't found an upgrade for any gear i think the loot is fine, sure its dropping more but how much of that is actually usable gear? I'm not complaining about not finding an upgrade either yea it sucks but im still having fun
I think it is much better. I played all afternoon yesterday and had a completely different experience. Actually could get gear, could afford items at shop, it felt good getting drops quicker, killing mobs and the difficulty curve differentiating white from blue from gold is noticeable and feels great. I actually had the most fun I’ve had in a loooong time last night and was finally able to go into act 3.
Same experience here as a 37 Monk in act 3 that played a lot in post patch with the same magic find. For me the currency drops are just perfect now as a bases 2 craft ratio. As for rares, i have like 30% magic find and they drop on special ocasions as intendet via bosses or yellow mobs or events/chests. I believe the problem doesnt stands in the drop rates themselves but more likely in how the game should tune the drop rates itself as u progress and u surpass harder and harder content, for example how they made the bosses guarantee a rare drop not just trash currency. We need a dynamic loot system and itemization in relation to the content not just numbers tweaks.
An avid arpg speed runner wants game to be harder. Sounds about right. The game isn't going to be patched so that hardcore arpg players can feel good inside. The increased loot is only an issue if you get really good rng. Im still struggling to get GOOD rares, items usable for my class, etc.
Make sure to check the shop every time you level up! I was struggling while playing a Witch minion build in HC SSF until I realized I was supposed to check the vendors every time I leveled up. As soon as I started doing that I got a +1 minion spells helmet , sceptre, plus an good blue emulet that I got lucky when I upgraded and gave me another +1. I'm literally stomping through act1 and 2 since then on shop gear alone almost (kinda like how it was in Diablo 2's early game.)
@@thingsofinterest603 the way I took his criticism about too many rares is that it slowed the game down sense he had to go back to town to disenchant. Which fair enough. But the problem is if they just give you currency without that step maybe the trade market experienced inflation?
I dont think the loot is alot .. I am still in act 3 and i am playing for hours a day and cant find a good weapon, yet .. Dont make them nerf it , cuz we are not all streamers ,playing 24/7 .
You must craft and look at merchants too, relying on drops allow is not the only way to get upgrades. I've gotten most of my upgrades from whites/blues I added new stats to.
For sure, I'm a bit worried of getting a loot pinata experience. I had found one unique pre-patch, to level 25. Now I've found three uniques within less playtime, and too many rares. Getting more currency is awesome, and incentivizes players to craft, but getting more rares, and uniques feels like too much.
Remember everyone, this is coming from a guy that played the most broken class in the game. Go play a melee and come back and tell us this again, you won’t.
Came here to say that. I could only play a few hours a day on my monk b4 turning off the game. Made it to act 2 final boss. Ranger I made it to act 3 in two days.
I'm playing monk and was having a decent time figuring out how to deal with each boss' mechanics. Post patch, I can almost ignore everything outside of a one-shot attack. I've even had situations where I deleted half the boss' HP in a couple of seconds. Sure, it's faster, but the fights aren't nearly as memorable. Little more than a roadblock I have to move aside.
I can’t believe we’re having this conversation at all. I couldn’t see a single difference with item drops. Only currency drops. Essentially it’s to the point where they shouldnt listen to ANYONE because no matter what people are going to complain. Build the game to the way you want and just tell everyone to shut up lol take some pointers from Nikita from Battlestate games.
he is probl dieing his way thru the game clicking every dmg note he can find and getting oneshot all the time as he said. ofc someone like that gets more loot / hour but at what cost.
Except he is a new player in POE2. And so is everyone else. Why are you trying to balance the game around absolutely new players who expect to play like pros?
As a casual who is on his 1st playthrough in Act 2 the changes feel just right. Yes, definitely seeing a big increase in drops but I only got one that was an upgrade to what I had before the patch.
Small intellect individual, you. Welcome to feedback for an early access game. That's literally the point. They are trying to get the balance, just right. To use an example your smoothbrain will get. Not too hot, not too cold.
Why am I not seeing these buffs? I don't see that much change but maybe it's because I'm still only low 20's? I still have only found 3 regal orbs and 1 I lost because I died before picking it up so it was lost. So I have issues even crafting items because I don't have currency.
EDIT: Just wanted to add to please keep in mind GGG said they made these loot changes to rares specifically to address end game mapping. I'm pretty okay with the changes, game still feels fun, it is a little easier which is probably better for the majority of the players that play this game. I think we have to always be careful not to try to fine tune a game for people in that top 2% who have been playing ARPG games forever and are very good. Majority of players are not like this and I am going to let GGG cook some more and see what they do.
I have almost 40 hours in game since early access launch and I am absolutely having a blast with the difficulty. However I do feel that the crafting in the game should be more useful to a degree. I have had some success with crafting but not enough to make it a main part of my game.
I agree with the loot thing. I might have been lucky before where I got about one rare per zone cleared, which I thought was fair for a *rare* item. Now I'm getting like four on average. I even got three in quick succession when killing two rare mobs that were close by and looting a basket. A basket!
The "difficulty" I experienced pre update was because I was constantly in bad gear or gear that was 10 levels old. I've played to half way through act 2 on two characters and I saw my first exalt orb last night. First ever. If your boss "interactions" aren't to your liking, change your build. Game is all around better. Also, the bosses will naturally get easier the more experience you have with the game. First time through, the act 1 boss took me 8 - 10 attempts. On the second, he only got time to do his fog and poetry segment a single time and I hadn't seen anything big from the patch.
I think the loot is fine. If its too much then maybe bring it a bit down because maybe the reason it got easier is you just get good with the character. But whatever. Im having fun.
If there is ANYTHING wrong with the game, the average PoE player will suggest fixing that problem by increasing the loot. Any problem at all. The answer is always "give us more loot."
Warrior totem build is feeling really weak early on. I'm hopeful I'll be able to ramp up, but gosh it's rough early. Took me like 10 minutes to full phase act 1 boss. And like 20 attempts.
@@BorisTheGoose92I did it in one try, maybe 8 minute fight. Games not insanely hard, being willing to recognize a blue item is better than a yellow item and shop if you don’t get a drop is hard.
@@jeezybaby43 that's like that in almost every arpg, because no one knows how to make warriors interesting. You have d2 barb pre nerf. Well that's it. It's a game design trap and they all fall for it.
I also don't understand the critiques about "kiting." You're a speedrunner so I can understand why this is annoying to you. But, having heard that this game is a Diablo/Souls mix, that's just how it goes in Souls games for a beginner. I suspect that it would be a disadvantage for GGG to allow speedrunners to do their thing at this point.
bear in mind that we only have half of the weapon types right now, if everything stays the same we will get about half of the "right" weapon type when all is out
I think the boss difficulty in Cruel has nothing to do with the loot because my pre and post patch experience hss been the same and i havent upgraded anything gear wise. I was destroying Cruel before and i still am. If i had to guess, Acts 4-6 will be better balanced than content they are asking players to repeat. I kind of appreciate that Cruel has been fast to move through so far.
Which part of the loot system changes do you think went overboard? Currency drops? Guaranteed rares for certain encounters? Combination of both? Are you referring to end game or campaign or both?
I got to play after working yeaterday for 2 hours, i found 6 rare items and not a single one worked for my build. Lucky me, lets pull back these drops...i acquired 4 regal shards for the night. The vendor had a wand though!
As a casual player I also think rare drop chance is a little to high. I think currency is in a great spot though. I think bosses are going to feel to easy or even harder depending on the build you use. I have been using a cold sorc for example and struggled through normal but once I got to cruel my freeze CC makes me obliterate bosses before they can even get an attack off. I can guarantee a melee build would not have that same luxury.
The way you do it is silently, little by little. If they actually did overbuff loot drops (which I'm not necessarily convinced they did but I'm not an expert), then the way to address that is every patch just turn it down a little bit at a time until it feels right. Do it gradually like that and don't advertise it and players likely won't even notice it's happening.
People struggle with this game. Honestly had a friend complaining that his ranger was struggling. Blamed it all on loot. I took a couple minutes looking at his passive skill tree, and it was absolute garbage. Some people just struggle to make good builds unless you smack a paper guide in front of them.
@@Arcin321 Which is why people are already rerolling streamer builds and being less negative in global chat. Of course unless it's to condemn how their original character was garbage and not look at what the streamer build did correctly.
This is not just because of the patch, it's also because you went from normal to cruel where loot drops a lot more. The patch itself was fine for normal but in cruel the drops were already fine.
I honestly have not noticed a difference at all in quality of loot. I think you must notice only due to the amount of time you are playing, because a few hours of playtime on I've had post patch my gear drops are still very stingy.
There is enough loot I think, but not too much. I am finding a few more rares now, but they are still mostly either garbage or not bases useful for my class. I am certainly not drowning in crafting currency either. My biggest gripe with the game is how often I get 1 shot as a monk. I have invested in evasion and energy shield and have life on my gear, but I haven't been able to find much useful res gear at all and monk doesn't make good use of armour so phys dmg (especially in melee range) tears me apart. I have to kite back with every mob pack and my melee character is that in name only, relying on ranged melee skills which I think is kind of lame and much the same as POE 1. Trying to face to face melee anything more than 3 enemies is a huge risk I find. My bossing experience has been fairly good, but again I feel like too much of the difficulty comes from 1 shots and not being able to see the boss move cue due to it being slightly off screen.
I'm curious how much of this can be tied to class balance. I spent my first 40 hours on a Stormweaver, struggling every step of the way due to how unbelievably undertuned all the spells are, only to reroll into a Deadeye around about the time of the loot change, and while the class feels great, it feels like I'm getting too much good loot because I'm less dependent on it, simply because of the mechanical strength of the abilities I have access to. My Deadeye at lvl 30 was doing more damage and clearing faster than my 70 Stormweaver was when I switched. I think it's going to be very difficult to have loot feeling balanced until it exists in a balanced ecosystem. I think it's a mistake to consider it in a vacuum right now, as for some classes (Bloodmage, etc), there's still nowhere near enough loot to make the class feel viable (especially with how Lab/ Ascendancy works [or doesn't, at the moment]). But that points to a wider issue, where we're dealing with item clutter, but still struggling to kill trash mobs. There are many knobs to adjust here, and they all can affect eachother in various ways. In many ways, I'm reminded of how PoE1 got to the state it did with items. The truth is, balancing a game this mechanically complex is a fool's errand, and at a certain point, I think GGG just threw their hands up and let players have all the loot they could want in order to shake out the inconsistencies in class and skill balance. A great example of this is how everyone's frustrated with tight hallways and narrow corridors right now in PoE2, while my Stormweaver, who depends on Spark, finds that the only layout style where she has consistently acceptable damage output, given Spark's interaction with bouncing off walls. Put her in an open field, and she may as well be casting thoughts and prayers. I'm glad they're trying things now while they have the chance. And I'm glad they're not afraid to go too far while they can still take things back before 1.0, but I think we have a long way to go, and adding the other 24/36 Ascendancies, their skills and supports, plus the second half of the passive tree that's still missing, as well as all the rest of the base types and unique items is only going to complicate matters further.
Am im insane or is the patch not even out yet? Since the patch notes look the same as yesterday. They only told us from the feedback what they wanted to change and they clearly said they dont want to overtune. The improvements in item drops are very slightly and really needed imo. There are no changes planned to mob or boss difficulty at all. Only regal orbs drop more and you get minmal more loot from bosses. I think its kinda perect now and still challenging. But little bit more rewarding :)
So complain about not enough loot. They change it to where now I got 1 of what I was looking for and it needs nerfed? Try only having a couple hrs a night after work and see how that feels. You’re entitled to your opinion but make up your mind.
tbh, 1000% trash mobs are still scary but i feel i can take em on now (with the recent power creep due to more loot). i agree that i shouldn't be kiting back laps and laps and laps throughout the map to kill one pile of trashmobs. i can still die to em due to a tactical error but they do feel like they're at a good pace when i run through em this time around. they are perfect. bosses do feel a bit weaker and it IS because of the loot drops. more life and/or more armor would be nice. maybe recharge the energy shield a tiny bit faster. would like to go through the phases. im not as scared of bosses as i was pre patch i knew raising the loot drop percentages would get out of hand. they just need to bring the percentages down a bit or go through each currency individually and set their drop rate according to rare monsters, trash mobs, bosses etc. for example .. i'd rather not see them as much or super rarely when i kill trashmobs. regal shards could be tuned down a bit on rare monsters. . . but yeah .. this last patch took away the complicatedness. they should still make the casual 9-5 dad gamers suffer a bit
I totally agree with the graphs you drew out and the conclusions from them. Pre-patch, the bosses were perfect; they were challenging and they kept me on my toes. Post-patch, the power creep has made bosses a little too easy. I think if they tone down the loot a little, bosses would be perfect. Pre-patch white mobs were the bane of my existence. In fact, even post-patch, they are still a little too strong. The biggest reason for this is the raw size and speed of the models. With a boss, I can see clearly what the boss is winding up, and I can decide to either tank it or dodge out of the way. With 15 white mobs on the screen, firstly, their model is too small for me to decipher their attack, secondly, I cannot keep my eyes on 15 attacks simultaneously. On the whole, white mobs need to be toned down relative to boss-power, and loot needs to be toned down relative to both. Pre-patch, the loot was extremely scarce. However, post-patch, it is a little too common. I've found 11 exalts from doing about 10 maps, averaging out to an exalt per map. Maybe that's a touch too high. Pre-patch, I found about 7 exalts through both normal+cruel campaign, which has enough zones to be the rough equivalent of about 10 maps (zones) per act, so 60 maps in total. So, it went from 7 exalts in 60 maps to 11 exalts in 10 maps. I would prefer a middle ground, somewhere along the lines of an exalt per roughly 3-4 maps, where I have enough to craft, but at the same time, it feels less like a transmute. Coming to the rares, I agree that they drop a little too often now, but I have a different problem, which is shared by PoE 1 too. The rares have an insanely low floor and an absurdly high ceiling. Ideally, this should be closer. With PoE 1, they tried this with the smartloot/loot 2.0 in heist and I would much like it that way. Quality over quantity. Make rares actually rare, but actually make them worth looking at, rather than being regal-shard-fodder. On the whole, I'm enjoying the game a lot. The polish PoE 2 has over PoE 1 is fantastic, and by the time we're in maps, the clear speed is great. While it isn't one-button-blow-up-the-screen as PoE 1 was, it's still pretty fast while presenting a fair challenge. Granted I'm only in T2-T4 maps right now, so I'm yet to experience the full endgame.
I played with two different characters yesterday and the loot experience was completely different. My witch was constantly getting item upgrades in every zone, but my mercenary wasn't. I spent several hours on my Merc leveling through multiple zones and still only ended up upgrading one item.
*You can't simply compare normal and cruel playthroughs as a benchmark. You need to play the same char, same spec, same acts on SSF to be able to make a somewhat accurate comparison. Cruel is generally easier as your build comes online so it shifts everything.* In other words they might of actually hit a nice balance now on normal but need to buff cruel.
The truth is if the games bosses were previously that well tuned for you, then the game was in a terrible place. You, as a super experienced arpg player, never gave that sort of experience. Never. You don’t deserve that experience because you play games too much. I’m sorry. But that game was overtuned. Of it was that fine tuned, that means 60-70 percent of players couldn’t beat it. Now what this means for you? You as experienced player should be going faster. Not spending a bunch of time on loot. You should let your skill do the talking. Turn on a loot filter and skip the loot you don’t need.
I don’t think the loot is the issue. I’m seeing players in endgame not even able to cap their res at like level 80 which feels like a loot issue. I agree with the sentiment that bosses tend to fall over faster and would be fine tuning them a bit stronger as I also enjoy engaging with the mechanics. Also agree the normal mobs now feel like they’re in a good spot. Another point on bosses is I feel part of why they were more of a struggle the first time around was we had no familiarity and had to learn all their moves and when to dodge. The fights will naturally become easier after we’ve done that.
I agree. It feel a little bit too much. Especially with the rares, they are starting to feel like not that rare, as in POE1 and d2, d3 and d4. Maintaining the bosses challenging for a wide array of build will be hard to do, but I really hope they are able to hit somewhere around the mark on this.
I would caution saying GGG over tuned things. Most players are still not going to know how to leverage currency effectively. The difficulty curve will have a significantly less drastic change than what an above average player will experience. Your experience and prior knowledge around things like affixes, suffixes, base types, etc. is a major advantage. However, easier access to such resources will encourage and promote those players to engaging and learn the system.
Excellent feedback. I believe reducing the amount of items dropped and increasing the currency instead would be a fine balance, because it will allow the player to at least craft and engage with the crafting system and at the same time it won't give them too much instant power from loot dropped. Yes, they should keep the bosses relatively hard otherwise they will become meaningless.
That's how looting games work,you start weak but there's always that chance that a white mob or a urn will drop a unique overpowered item wtf are you talking about,thats why we play these games its for the loot more loot better where not playing a crafting game its called a looter game.,idiots
Consider that the easier time you are having after normal, may not be just because of the loot, but the power curve of the character. Some Tier 2 or Tier 3 support gems may be really powerful, Or some of your advanced skills for the Bow. Many characters in PoE are notorious for only "working" after a certain amount was invested on the tree. Not saying more loot didn't make the game easier, just that maybe is not JUST about the loot, and there are some balances to be made in the powercreep within the individual builds.
Yea… i played all night, only in a2 norm and loot is not abundant cause i kill slow and bosses are still very long. I think it’s only for when you are high level and more skills / tree / ascendancy - u become more powerful and clear faster so more loot drops. If u just restarted the game fresh with no hand me down loot you would prolly experience almost the same thing. Edit: seems like the answer is to just buff bosses in cruel / maps cause life still aint easy in normal before having a lot of skills and nodes and ascendancies
I think they can do this while still make some fine tuning optimizations. 75% of peoples issues in this game can be solved with developing some muscle memory for using the dodge mechanic. Another 20% of the issues can be solved by using crafting items in act 1 and 2 to exclusively make a better weapon for damage output.
This is a problem for people who play a ton of ARPGs and or play the strongest builds, also this comes down to gaining experience from fighting the bosses before/learning the mechanics the first play through, its not gonna feel the same the 2nd time around. When you hit Cruel your character power is just naturally stronger from the passive tree and levels. Cruel difficulty happens to just be filler and your not in that 'learning' phase anymore. Personally i was fine with the way loot was before but i do understand it wasnt really what they originally claimed it to be/wanted it to be, with that said It doesnt bother me that there is more access to currency or loot and it doesnt feel overdine either.
That character build you're playing too plays a factor. The electrocutioner is pretty OP even with mediocre gear... that plays a bit of a factor. So is my minion witch she one spotted act 1 boss with hardly any good gear. Lol
RNG is a big factor too. I’m playing solo, no trades or guild stash (basically SSF), I don’t get good boots with some movement speed or weapon (XBow) with 2 essential modifiers. I’m still struggling (am I the only one?) So, I need to re-do the highest level maps repeatedly till I am over level than the Act Bosses. Buffing the loot drops allows me to have more “chance” to craft better equipments. But if no luck (for me still zero luck), then need to level up a bit more & try the boss again. If failed a couple times, back to levelling again…. (Btw, during this process, I found no upgrade at all so far). But it’ll become slower & slower. There are vids showing builds can progress faster. Perhaps after trying several builds blindly by myself 1st. Then I’ll start looking other metas.
I’ve been running maps all day and the amount of rares and good orbs dropping is insane. I’m not even juicing my maps either I’m just using the magic tier ones that drop. My only issue with the game so far is the honor system and bosses in ascendancy 3+. They are just absolutely brutal even with a good defensive minion build every single attack is a 1 shot to your health or honor.
I don't believe they should spend to much time adjusting the act 1-3 bosses in cruel since for the final game those bosses won't be getting a second play through. Also one thing to consider on your power level once you hit Level 52 and you start getting those level 13 skill gems on the warrior i have falling hammer and I'm doing massive damage just with having that skill before I even got any upgrades I think they should spend their time focusing on finishing acts 4-6 and then tuning the end game maps in beta. Also I feel loots drips are in a decent place now IMO
Very similar to how some went almost the whole campaign without a single drop and others rolled into act 1 and got a gg weapon that can carry them through to maps - I don't think the buff is too much. I genuinely think I would've enjoyed my early progression way more if I didn't feel like I was struggle bussing because of gear. Like, I don't think I had much res outside of what quests gave till act 2 or 3 - hence I died to a lot of random stuff (and I was doing my damnedest to craft and scour over vendors). It's great actually being able to build defensively now.
Probably changes wildly by character. Playing warrior i was finally able to craft an okayish weapon at level 34. Feels like i can clear areas a bit faster, and i am not poking bosses with a spoon.
Think boss fights need this adjustment: less one shots available, more life/def/res. Rare drops should actually be good. Make them drop less. Add more crafting stuff to try to make a good rare. But dropped rates should have a higher chance to be great, but lower rate to find in the open
I play minion witch and I die and it is hell. There is no loot that support minions... every item that I have (and actually buffs minions) is bought from the shop.
that's a good point. I ended up going for cast on minion death on skeletons with burning legion and instability so they end up doing fire damage in combination with contagion build
People don't really talk about this, but Uniques drop at a great rate before the patch, and probably an even better rate now. I would say loot right now is a LIIIIITTTLE on the high side now, but I think they key now is just to NOT TOUCH IT. Leave it where it is, and maybe only shuffle currency amounts.
I really think the loot is perfect because you should really only want to pick up rares for your build and I am still encouraged to do so. I don't know where the inventories of loot are coming from but I feel like you've either been incredibly lucky or you're picking up too much. As long as loot matters, we're no where near poe 1.
hard disagree on it being close to loot pinata, im actually getting rares now but they are still uncommon enough that getting a good one for my class still feels great and only happens a few times per act, maybe 3 or 4 times for all of act 2? which is a very long act
I'd be okay if they lowered the rare drops but tuned the affix bands a bit more. Seeing rares drop initially was a great feeling, but IDing them to see 6% resistance 2.2 life regeneration and 9 mana is just disheartening from an endgame map. Otherwise I feel that the current rate of rare drops is okay for what we're seeing. The white mobs feel fine, I agree with you there and bosses feel weaker, but I do think it's more because of player power progression as you get more support gems & ascendancy points than it is from getting items (see my initial statement as to why)
This happens with every ARPG. I’m enjoying the game. But, I doubt it’s long term appeal unless significantly more changes happen. And when that happens, everyone will crap on the game because it’s too “casual”. Seen it a million times. Happened with D4 and Last Epoch, too. Gamers never change. Lol
the only complaint about loot i have atm is just managing it. everytime i go back to town i have to identify, then go salvage, then disenchant, then sell for gold.
Crazy how small the adjustments were and how much of an impact that had for you. I played for 8hrs yesterday and didn’t even notice a difference with loot drops lol
During campaign, there's basically no crafting done other than trans+aug. No regals drop. I got maybe 2-3 during 50 lvls. They say they buffed it, but currency still barely drops. I thought Poe1 fresh leveling was slow and rough, but PoE2 just said: Hold my beer. I wished they would drop more low currency so we can at least use the limited crafting during leveling. Regals need to drop at least half of what trans and aug are. I have 40 transmutes and 20 augs while I've been using them regularly. I only dropped 1 regal in 2 days.
Yep this is what I want, drop the loot a bit touch and increase regals shards/orbs. Feels bad having a stash of magic items with good suffixes ready to regal only to sell them on for 3-5 transmutes
Maybe my build is kind of okay, but I was already having a much easier time with bosses before the loot changes in cruel, so it seems like increasing their hp is a good idea regardless
its so nice that everything ppl complain at this stage is just numbers things tbh. no core problems with the game. cant imagine the place this game will be in 12 months. (i personally dont like the die once and lose the complete map thing, i hope that will be adjusted tbh.)
I played my electric archer build this morning from level 10 to 18, and white mobs and elites were how you described, continually kiting backwards all the way to the entrance, and then run all the way back through. The bosses on the other hand, were not really much of a problem, and less fear of death than the whites. Also a bit of a bug with the side quest mini boss things: if you die and respawn at the marker, the whole map respawns. It happened to me in the tombs today, and a few days ago on my sorc character doing the Ominous Altars quest in Freythorn, I thought I was going crazy as it would respawn the other alters that had already been cleared, and I couldn't get the foggy one to clear.
They should just add a feature in the options that allows certain players to increase loot in an offline mode so not everybody has to play the same. Personally I thought the loot was perfect pre patch.
The bosses early were well tuned because the varience in character build is very low. So the best and worst builds had similar experiences and you could tune the bosses for that. As you continue through the game the difference between the best and worst builds widens significantlly and so the bosses are almost impossible to be a good "challenge" for everyone.
Well said
I feel like this is just anecdotal. With so much RNG in games like these someone could just get lucky and have a real easy run, others not so much.
Yeah, this is what I didn't understand about Llama's earlier criticisms. I mean, he's a D2 player! Things are rare and difficult to find...
yeh, he's take is quite dumb, for someone like him that grinded his life on ARPGs to swing so much on his whining, oww the game is too hard, oww now the game is too easy, wtf, no gear = game bad, got some gear = game bad again because too easy, wtf?!
Not even close. I played 6 hrs last night and got one regal, no exalts, one artificer orb. The rares are a bit better but they definitely didn't go too far in my opinion.
I think you were unlucky. I'm getting more stuff than I need right now.
@@bobinasack yeah definitely unlucky. Got two regals and a jewelers orb in an hour last night. 39 infernalist with zero issues concerning both loot and mob difficulty.
I got 2 exalts in a 30 second span lmao
I got at least 5 regals last night. Just luck.
I got 1 exalt and 1 regal last night in 1 hour of straight playing.
Loot is not too much. I work 10 hours a day. How much do I have to f*cking grind to get gear.
So stfu about nerfing the loot. It's not loot pinata.
i think its in a perfect spot now
Bosses were fun now I can’t even see what they’re doing I kill them so fast… it’s less fun now
If you are no-lifing the game 12 hours a day loot may feel overtuned, but just fine for me as a normal person with a 9-5 job. Mobs feel powerful if you are not doing a meta build with guides, and same for bosses
Didn't know playing more hours a day gave you a buff😂
@@joelhodoborgas yeah, having played arpg's for thousands of hours makes absolutely no difference. Thanks for the great insight. Love to hear more sweaty advice
No, just no. I played my ranger for almost 9 hours last evening, after the drop buffs, and I'm still on the L16 bow that I crafted 3 days ago and I'm L34 now. And I did not find anything worth keeping during my recent session. The buff to drops was much needed and only super hardcore guys like streamers who play 18 hours a day would want a nerf to that.
Tbh this. If they change things to cater to a streamer who plays 16hrs a day, imagine how hard it'll be for other players who can only get on a few hours a day (if that). The new drops are fine imo (lvl 42 ranger) and I finally have more than 4k gold from selling items.
This
I totally agree with Llama, the drop rate is getting out of hand... I'm level 60 and the amount of items I get is ridiculous! It's very rewarding and I HATE IT. Just remember this game is NOT for casual players... I don't think GGG should reward casual players at all.
@@callmejm3073the game is 100% factually catered towards more casual players than POE 1. Less complex passive tree most nodes are simple stat increases, voiced explanations for skills gems that has a video to go along with it, the ability to respec for gold, releasing the game in a 1-1 state on console, adding split screen couch co-op, much more simple crafting system, much less bloat in the end game, them increasing currency drop rates and loot drop rates and many more things that clearly show they are trying to cater to a more casual audience while also having engaging end game systems that keep more hardcore players hooked. You’re factually wrong. Go play POE 1 dude they’re gonna keep updating it no need to try and turn POE 2 into a reskin of POE 1 most people want a new game that feels different not a copy paste with better graphics.
@@zaiyas1408 You are totally WRONG about EVERYTHING! LOL... GGG didn't even want to buff drops, they made it just for the casual whiners! They didn't want any bad reviews about it. Look how they're going to nerf drops again, mark my words... GGG even says this game is going to be hard in everything... the only thing they're helping casual players with is explaining more about the game, that's all. You don't have a single word of common sense! I bet you're a Diablo 4 player, I can tell.
since the update i still haven't found an upgrade for any gear i think the loot is fine, sure its dropping more but how much of that is actually usable gear? I'm not complaining about not finding an upgrade either yea it sucks but im still having fun
gotta make upgrades my guy
@BigWillyam I know bruh it's not that easy lol spammed my currency on every piece that has potential I've just been unlucky
I think it is much better. I played all afternoon yesterday and had a completely different experience. Actually could get gear, could afford items at shop, it felt good getting drops quicker, killing mobs and the difficulty curve differentiating white from blue from gold is noticeable and feels great. I actually had the most fun I’ve had in a loooong time last night and was finally able to go into act 3.
You’ve got that streamer client loot. I’ve been playing virtually 24/7 and that is NOT my experience post patch. It’s slightly better with the orbs.
THIS
streamers ruin gaming
Same experience here as a 37 Monk in act 3 that played a lot in post patch with the same magic find.
For me the currency drops are just perfect now as a bases 2 craft ratio. As for rares, i have like 30% magic find and they drop on special ocasions as intendet via bosses or yellow mobs or events/chests. I believe the problem doesnt stands in the drop rates themselves but more likely in how the game should tune the drop rates itself as u progress and u surpass harder and harder content, for example how they made the bosses guarantee a rare drop not just trash currency.
We need a dynamic loot system and itemization in relation to the content not just numbers tweaks.
Exactly. I barely saw any change last night so this video is a bit overblown IMO.
An avid arpg speed runner wants game to be harder. Sounds about right.
The game isn't going to be patched so that hardcore arpg players can feel good inside.
The increased loot is only an issue if you get really good rng. Im still struggling to get GOOD rares, items usable for my class, etc.
Make sure to check the shop every time you level up!
I was struggling while playing a Witch minion build in HC SSF until I realized I was supposed to check the vendors every time I leveled up.
As soon as I started doing that I got a +1 minion spells helmet , sceptre, plus an good blue emulet that I got lucky when I upgraded and gave me another +1.
I'm literally stomping through act1 and 2 since then on shop gear alone almost (kinda like how it was in Diablo 2's early game.)
...Doesn't PoE 2 literally market itself as a game for hardcore arpg players though?
@@ElShogoso they have said several times they are trying to open the door for more casual players. I assure you there aren’t 400k no lifers/streamers
You don't have to clear ubers in 3 weeks so you can feel good inside either
@@thingsofinterest603 the way I took his criticism about too many rares is that it slowed the game down sense he had to go back to town to disenchant. Which fair enough. But the problem is if they just give you currency without that step maybe the trade market experienced inflation?
I dont think the loot is alot .. I am still in act 3 and i am playing for hours a day and cant find a good weapon, yet .. Dont make them nerf it , cuz we are not all streamers ,playing 24/7 .
not a streamer, but i quit poe because of the damn hoards of loot, it's annoying to manage and hover over most of the loot. quality before quantity.
In end game it will rain loot on you.. you are not even in "the game" yet
You must craft and look at merchants too, relying on drops allow is not the only way to get upgrades. I've gotten most of my upgrades from whites/blues I added new stats to.
Look the vendors after every lvl up, they have real strong items from time to time.
@rdubs1705 he dont know how to play and want items to rain.. then he will quit and go to the next game he dont understand and repeat this..
My loot went WAAAAY up after the patch.
They 10000% don't need to go any higher.
For sure, I'm a bit worried of getting a loot pinata experience. I had found one unique pre-patch, to level 25. Now I've found three uniques within less playtime, and too many rares. Getting more currency is awesome, and incentivizes players to craft, but getting more rares, and uniques feels like too much.
This is why it's early access. By the time it gets a full release it will be fine-tuned. Got to trust the process and GGG games.
Remember everyone, this is coming from a guy that played the most broken class in the game.
Go play a melee and come back and tell us this again, you won’t.
Came here to say that. I could only play a few hours a day on my monk b4 turning off the game. Made it to act 2 final boss.
Ranger I made it to act 3 in two days.
I'm playing monk and was having a decent time figuring out how to deal with each boss' mechanics. Post patch, I can almost ignore everything outside of a one-shot attack. I've even had situations where I deleted half the boss' HP in a couple of seconds.
Sure, it's faster, but the fights aren't nearly as memorable. Little more than a roadblock I have to move aside.
My monk deletes bosses in seconds, give em the cow bell freeze @@stryfer1989
I'm playing melee, I think they over corrected, they should have increased the currency drops only
Literally 5 seconds it takes for my monk to melt a boss I don’t know what you’re talking about. He just needs some more attention when playng
I can’t believe we’re having this conversation at all. I couldn’t see a single difference with item drops. Only currency drops.
Essentially it’s to the point where they shouldnt listen to ANYONE because no matter what people are going to complain. Build the game to the way you want and just tell everyone to shut up lol take some pointers from Nikita from Battlestate games.
Pretty much, I got one unique and a lot of currency
he is probl dieing his way thru the game clicking every dmg note he can find and getting oneshot all the time as he said. ofc someone like that gets more loot / hour but at what cost.
I'm playing a melee and the boss fights feels like a Fromsoft experience. But I liked the difficulty personally
I don't think so. Feels good now, and bosses are still challenging to me (on a self-made build, at least).
Never balance a game by a freaking expert arpg player who has 10k hours in Diablo 2. Are you insane.
Try 30k
What do you think he has wrong?
Except he is a new player in POE2.
And so is everyone else.
Why are you trying to balance the game around absolutely new players who expect to play like pros?
Hes actually admitted to having over 50k and this was years go
like diablo 2 mechanics are same lmao.
As a casual who is on his 1st playthrough in Act 2 the changes feel just right. Yes, definitely seeing a big increase in drops but I only got one that was an upgrade to what I had before the patch.
Not enough loot. Complains.
Too much loot. Complains.
#gamers
Small intellect individual, you.
Welcome to feedback for an early access game. That's literally the point. They are trying to get the balance, just right. To use an example your smoothbrain will get. Not too hot, not too cold.
@@BjornStatenguard This feedback of course is based on your years of experience in game development right?
You know nothing John Snow.
Feedback is fine but this video makes big assumptions on a single point of data which seems silly. This wasn't my experience last night at all.
@@BjornStatenguard what you said make sense but it's not the reality. we know ppl are going to complain until GGG make the items drop like crazy
Why am I not seeing these buffs? I don't see that much change but maybe it's because I'm still only low 20's? I still have only found 3 regal orbs and 1 I lost because I died before picking it up so it was lost. So I have issues even crafting items because I don't have currency.
EDIT: Just wanted to add to please keep in mind GGG said they made these loot changes to rares specifically to address end game mapping.
I'm pretty okay with the changes, game still feels fun, it is a little easier which is probably better for the majority of the players that play this game. I think we have to always be careful not to try to fine tune a game for people in that top 2% who have been playing ARPG games forever and are very good. Majority of players are not like this and I am going to let GGG cook some more and see what they do.
The things you discuss here has very little to do with the loot changes. Cruel is ALOT easier than normal and was exactly like this pre patch aswell.
Idk man, my resistances doubled…
I have almost 40 hours in game since early access launch and I am absolutely having a blast with the difficulty. However I do feel that the crafting in the game should be more useful to a degree. I have had some success with crafting but not enough to make it a main part of my game.
I don't think white mobs are overturned, just forces you to try and improve your build.
I like the new loot changes I don't think it's too much. I am halfway through act 2 and still using my crossbow from act 1.
I hope this doesn't turn into a d3 / d4 style adventure
I do.
It definitely wont
@@Yslohrwild statement no one wants that lol
@@Yslohr hell nah go play D3 and D4 then. This isn't D3 or D4 and I pray to whoever is listening it doesn't go that way. Trash games
@@Yslohr Pleb 😂
Sorry I can't agree with you on this one. I feel like the Buff was fine and that the loot absolutely needed the improvement.
I agree with the loot thing. I might have been lucky before where I got about one rare per zone cleared, which I thought was fair for a *rare* item. Now I'm getting like four on average. I even got three in quick succession when killing two rare mobs that were close by and looting a basket. A basket!
idk man i feel like most people went from getting barely anything to getting barely anything but with an occasional rare.
The "difficulty" I experienced pre update was because I was constantly in bad gear or gear that was 10 levels old. I've played to half way through act 2 on two characters and I saw my first exalt orb last night. First ever.
If your boss "interactions" aren't to your liking, change your build. Game is all around better. Also, the bosses will naturally get easier the more experience you have with the game. First time through, the act 1 boss took me 8 - 10 attempts. On the second, he only got time to do his fog and poetry segment a single time and I hadn't seen anything big from the patch.
I think the loot is fine. If its too much then maybe bring it a bit down because maybe the reason it got easier is you just get good with the character. But whatever. Im having fun.
If there is ANYTHING wrong with the game, the average PoE player will suggest fixing that problem by increasing the loot. Any problem at all. The answer is always "give us more loot."
My warrior bosses felt challenging, made a witch yesterday zoomed through a1-3 with no struggles
that's because witch is s tier and warrior is b tier lol
Warrior totem build is feeling really weak early on. I'm hopeful I'll be able to ramp up, but gosh it's rough early. Took me like 10 minutes to full phase act 1 boss.
And like 20 attempts.
@@BorisTheGoose92I did it in one try, maybe 8 minute fight. Games not insanely hard, being willing to recognize a blue item is better than a yellow item and shop if you don’t get a drop is hard.
Perfect strike armor break warrior hits so hard on cruel difficulty that bosses won't even have time to show all the mechanics
@@jeezybaby43 that's like that in almost every arpg, because no one knows how to make warriors interesting.
You have d2 barb pre nerf.
Well that's it.
It's a game design trap and they all fall for it.
Loot is def not overtuned..... Play Melee
I also don't understand the critiques about "kiting." You're a speedrunner so I can understand why this is annoying to you. But, having heard that this game is a Diablo/Souls mix, that's just how it goes in Souls games for a beginner. I suspect that it would be a disadvantage for GGG to allow speedrunners to do their thing at this point.
bear in mind that we only have half of the weapon types right now, if everything stays the same we will get about half of the "right" weapon type when all is out
There is just more yellow stuff that is mostly bad - idk what you are talking about that there is to much good loot xD
I think the boss difficulty in Cruel has nothing to do with the loot because my pre and post patch experience hss been the same and i havent upgraded anything gear wise. I was destroying Cruel before and i still am.
If i had to guess, Acts 4-6 will be better balanced than content they are asking players to repeat. I kind of appreciate that Cruel has been fast to move through so far.
So glad to see someone with a similar feeling on loot quantity. Overshooting rare loot makes magic loot meaningless.
Which part of the loot system changes do you think went overboard? Currency drops? Guaranteed rares for certain encounters? Combination of both? Are you referring to end game or campaign or both?
I got to play after working yeaterday for 2 hours, i found 6 rare items and not a single one worked for my build. Lucky me, lets pull back these drops...i acquired 4 regal shards for the night. The vendor had a wand though!
Loot is feeling better. I'm a warrior and I'm still struggling with bosses in ACT 3 normal.
im 36 still using a lvl3 staff lol, i dont see any difference in drops
As a casual player I also think rare drop chance is a little to high. I think currency is in a great spot though. I think bosses are going to feel to easy or even harder depending on the build you use. I have been using a cold sorc for example and struggled through normal but once I got to cruel my freeze CC makes me obliterate bosses before they can even get an attack off. I can guarantee a melee build would not have that same luxury.
Llama you are playing ranger. Strongest class in game. So if ya having too easy of a time play something else
My sorceress is walking the game without any issues too
My monk melting everything close range
The problem with buffing loot is nerfing it will feel bad. They’ve already opened Pandora’s box I think.
The way you do it is silently, little by little. If they actually did overbuff loot drops (which I'm not necessarily convinced they did but I'm not an expert), then the way to address that is every patch just turn it down a little bit at a time until it feels right. Do it gradually like that and don't advertise it and players likely won't even notice it's happening.
Jonathan gets on video " so we fixed a bug that was allowing more loot to drop than previously expected" done and done
Never take early feedback to the heart as a dev, most players don't know what they want and just make bad suggestions when things are mostly fine.
I certainly don't feel the buffs, still feel like i'm not getting anything at all
I think its much better with the added loot percentage. I still doe at bosses 😂
They didnt buff it too much because you need good loot vs how hard the game is. Your graph isnt accurate
The game isnt too hard.. what are u on??
People struggle with this game. Honestly had a friend complaining that his ranger was struggling. Blamed it all on loot. I took a couple minutes looking at his passive skill tree, and it was absolute garbage. Some people just struggle to make good builds unless you smack a paper guide in front of them.
@@Arcin321 Which is why people are already rerolling streamer builds and being less negative in global chat. Of course unless it's to condemn how their original character was garbage and not look at what the streamer build did correctly.
I think they buffed the item drops a bit too much, crafting mats would be better imo.
This is not just because of the patch, it's also because you went from normal to cruel where loot drops a lot more. The patch itself was fine for normal but in cruel the drops were already fine.
I honestly have not noticed a difference at all in quality of loot. I think you must notice only due to the amount of time you are playing, because a few hours of playtime on I've had post patch my gear drops are still very stingy.
There is enough loot I think, but not too much. I am finding a few more rares now, but they are still mostly either garbage or not bases useful for my class. I am certainly not drowning in crafting currency either. My biggest gripe with the game is how often I get 1 shot as a monk. I have invested in evasion and energy shield and have life on my gear, but I haven't been able to find much useful res gear at all and monk doesn't make good use of armour so phys dmg (especially in melee range) tears me apart. I have to kite back with every mob pack and my melee character is that in name only, relying on ranged melee skills which I think is kind of lame and much the same as POE 1. Trying to face to face melee anything more than 3 enemies is a huge risk I find. My bossing experience has been fairly good, but again I feel like too much of the difficulty comes from 1 shots and not being able to see the boss move cue due to it being slightly off screen.
I'm curious how much of this can be tied to class balance. I spent my first 40 hours on a Stormweaver, struggling every step of the way due to how unbelievably undertuned all the spells are, only to reroll into a Deadeye around about the time of the loot change, and while the class feels great, it feels like I'm getting too much good loot because I'm less dependent on it, simply because of the mechanical strength of the abilities I have access to.
My Deadeye at lvl 30 was doing more damage and clearing faster than my 70 Stormweaver was when I switched. I think it's going to be very difficult to have loot feeling balanced until it exists in a balanced ecosystem. I think it's a mistake to consider it in a vacuum right now, as for some classes (Bloodmage, etc), there's still nowhere near enough loot to make the class feel viable (especially with how Lab/ Ascendancy works [or doesn't, at the moment]). But that points to a wider issue, where we're dealing with item clutter, but still struggling to kill trash mobs. There are many knobs to adjust here, and they all can affect eachother in various ways.
In many ways, I'm reminded of how PoE1 got to the state it did with items. The truth is, balancing a game this mechanically complex is a fool's errand, and at a certain point, I think GGG just threw their hands up and let players have all the loot they could want in order to shake out the inconsistencies in class and skill balance.
A great example of this is how everyone's frustrated with tight hallways and narrow corridors right now in PoE2, while my Stormweaver, who depends on Spark, finds that the only layout style where she has consistently acceptable damage output, given Spark's interaction with bouncing off walls. Put her in an open field, and she may as well be casting thoughts and prayers.
I'm glad they're trying things now while they have the chance. And I'm glad they're not afraid to go too far while they can still take things back before 1.0, but I think we have a long way to go, and adding the other 24/36 Ascendancies, their skills and supports, plus the second half of the passive tree that's still missing, as well as all the rest of the base types and unique items is only going to complicate matters further.
How have you built your spark stormweaver? Once I got my first ascendancy the games been on easy mode for me
Am im insane or is the patch not even out yet? Since the patch notes look the same as yesterday. They only told us from the feedback what they wanted to change and they clearly said they dont want to overtune. The improvements in item drops are very slightly and really needed imo. There are no changes planned to mob or boss difficulty at all. Only regal orbs drop more and you get minmal more loot from bosses. I think its kinda perect now and still challenging. But little bit more rewarding :)
I agree completely and had the same experience on my rerolled character.
So complain about not enough loot. They change it to where now I got 1 of what I was looking for and it needs nerfed? Try only having a couple hrs a night after work and see how that feels. You’re entitled to your opinion but make up your mind.
Damnit guys. Rare loot being rare was great.... the cry babies going to win out again!
Edit: MAKE BOSSES GREAT AGAIN
Yuuuup.
tbh, 1000%
trash mobs are still scary but i feel i can take em on now (with the recent power creep due to more loot).
i agree that i shouldn't be kiting back laps and laps and laps throughout the map to kill one pile of trashmobs.
i can still die to em due to a tactical error but they do feel like they're at a good pace when i run through em this time around. they are perfect.
bosses do feel a bit weaker and it IS because of the loot drops. more life and/or more armor would be nice. maybe recharge the energy shield a tiny bit faster.
would like to go through the phases. im not as scared of bosses as i was pre patch
i knew raising the loot drop percentages would get out of hand. they just need to bring the percentages down a bit or go through each currency individually and set their drop rate according to rare monsters, trash mobs, bosses etc. for example .. i'd rather not see them as much or super rarely when i kill trashmobs. regal shards could be tuned down a bit on rare monsters. . .
but yeah .. this last patch took away the complicatedness.
they should still make the casual 9-5 dad gamers suffer a bit
I totally agree with the graphs you drew out and the conclusions from them.
Pre-patch, the bosses were perfect; they were challenging and they kept me on my toes. Post-patch, the power creep has made bosses a little too easy. I think if they tone down the loot a little, bosses would be perfect.
Pre-patch white mobs were the bane of my existence. In fact, even post-patch, they are still a little too strong. The biggest reason for this is the raw size and speed of the models. With a boss, I can see clearly what the boss is winding up, and I can decide to either tank it or dodge out of the way. With 15 white mobs on the screen, firstly, their model is too small for me to decipher their attack, secondly, I cannot keep my eyes on 15 attacks simultaneously. On the whole, white mobs need to be toned down relative to boss-power, and loot needs to be toned down relative to both.
Pre-patch, the loot was extremely scarce. However, post-patch, it is a little too common. I've found 11 exalts from doing about 10 maps, averaging out to an exalt per map. Maybe that's a touch too high. Pre-patch, I found about 7 exalts through both normal+cruel campaign, which has enough zones to be the rough equivalent of about 10 maps (zones) per act, so 60 maps in total. So, it went from 7 exalts in 60 maps to 11 exalts in 10 maps. I would prefer a middle ground, somewhere along the lines of an exalt per roughly 3-4 maps, where I have enough to craft, but at the same time, it feels less like a transmute.
Coming to the rares, I agree that they drop a little too often now, but I have a different problem, which is shared by PoE 1 too. The rares have an insanely low floor and an absurdly high ceiling. Ideally, this should be closer. With PoE 1, they tried this with the smartloot/loot 2.0 in heist and I would much like it that way. Quality over quantity. Make rares actually rare, but actually make them worth looking at, rather than being regal-shard-fodder.
On the whole, I'm enjoying the game a lot. The polish PoE 2 has over PoE 1 is fantastic, and by the time we're in maps, the clear speed is great. While it isn't one-button-blow-up-the-screen as PoE 1 was, it's still pretty fast while presenting a fair challenge. Granted I'm only in T2-T4 maps right now, so I'm yet to experience the full endgame.
I played with two different characters yesterday and the loot experience was completely different. My witch was constantly getting item upgrades in every zone, but my mercenary wasn't. I spent several hours on my Merc leveling through multiple zones and still only ended up upgrading one item.
SOLID disagree
Fair enough!
*You can't simply compare normal and cruel playthroughs as a benchmark. You need to play the same char, same spec, same acts on SSF to be able to make a somewhat accurate comparison. Cruel is generally easier as your build comes online so it shifts everything.*
In other words they might of actually hit a nice balance now on normal but need to buff cruel.
The truth is if the games bosses were previously that well tuned for you, then the game was in a terrible place. You, as a super experienced arpg player, never gave that sort of experience. Never. You don’t deserve that experience because you play games too much. I’m sorry. But that game was overtuned. Of it was that fine tuned, that means 60-70 percent of players couldn’t beat it. Now what this means for you? You as experienced player should be going faster. Not spending a bunch of time on loot. You should let your skill do the talking. Turn on a loot filter and skip the loot you don’t need.
I’m destroying bosses now as well. After 46 hours. I don’t want to farm for 300 hours to build one character to competence
I don’t think the loot is the issue. I’m seeing players in endgame not even able to cap their res at like level 80 which feels like a loot issue. I agree with the sentiment that bosses tend to fall over faster and would be fine tuning them a bit stronger as I also enjoy engaging with the mechanics. Also agree the normal mobs now feel like they’re in a good spot.
Another point on bosses is I feel part of why they were more of a struggle the first time around was we had no familiarity and had to learn all their moves and when to dodge. The fights will naturally become easier after we’ve done that.
I think fresh play through you will feel the same as before and its not the patch. Cruel is way easier because you are geared even pre patch
I agree. It feel a little bit too much. Especially with the rares, they are starting to feel like not that rare, as in POE1 and d2, d3 and d4.
Maintaining the bosses challenging for a wide array of build will be hard to do, but I really hope they are able to hit somewhere around the mark on this.
I haven't noticed a loot increase at all, I'm on act 3 and I've never seen an exalted and yellows are still rare.
Maybe that's normal.
I would caution saying GGG over tuned things. Most players are still not going to know how to leverage currency effectively. The difficulty curve will have a significantly less drastic change than what an above average player will experience.
Your experience and prior knowledge around things like affixes, suffixes, base types, etc. is a major advantage.
However, easier access to such resources will encourage and promote those players to engaging and learn the system.
Thanks for your works, Mr Llama! I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday!
Happy holidays!! Thank you
Excellent feedback. I believe reducing the amount of items dropped and increasing the currency instead would be a fine balance, because it will allow the player to at least craft and engage with the crafting system and at the same time it won't give them too much instant power from loot dropped. Yes, they should keep the bosses relatively hard otherwise they will become meaningless.
That's how looting games work,you start weak but there's always that chance that a white mob or a urn will drop a unique overpowered item wtf are you talking about,thats why we play these games its for the loot more loot better where not playing a crafting game its called a looter game.,idiots
Consider that the easier time you are having after normal, may not be just because of the loot, but the power curve of the character. Some Tier 2 or Tier 3 support gems may be really powerful, Or some of your advanced skills for the Bow. Many characters in PoE are notorious for only "working" after a certain amount was invested on the tree. Not saying more loot didn't make the game easier, just that maybe is not JUST about the loot, and there are some balances to be made in the powercreep within the individual builds.
Yea… i played all night, only in a2 norm and loot is not abundant cause i kill slow and bosses are still very long. I think it’s only for when you are high level and more skills / tree / ascendancy - u become more powerful and clear faster so more loot drops. If u just restarted the game fresh with no hand me down loot you would prolly experience almost the same thing.
Edit: seems like the answer is to just buff bosses in cruel / maps cause life still aint easy in normal before having a lot of skills and nodes and ascendancies
They need to ignore the people screaming it’s to hard
It's pretty hard compared to other games, I'm still not able to kill the act1 boss at lvl18 sorc quite challenging
I think they can do this while still make some fine tuning optimizations. 75% of peoples issues in this game can be solved with developing some muscle memory for using the dodge mechanic. Another 20% of the issues can be solved by using crafting items in act 1 and 2 to exclusively make a better weapon for damage output.
@@hazenkaul3052 just rolled a witch and killed the act1 boss in my third try.
I hope so,. Only because I love watching the cycles of emotions when people's OP builds get balanced again.
This is a problem for people who play a ton of ARPGs and or play the strongest builds, also this comes down to gaining experience from fighting the bosses before/learning the mechanics the first play through, its not gonna feel the same the 2nd time around. When you hit Cruel your character power is just naturally stronger from the passive tree and levels. Cruel difficulty happens to just be filler and your not in that 'learning' phase anymore. Personally i was fine with the way loot was before but i do understand it wasnt really what they originally claimed it to be/wanted it to be, with that said It doesnt bother me that there is more access to currency or loot and it doesnt feel overdine either.
That character build you're playing too plays a factor. The electrocutioner is pretty OP even with mediocre gear... that plays a bit of a factor. So is my minion witch she one spotted act 1 boss with hardly any good gear. Lol
RNG is a big factor too.
I’m playing solo, no trades or guild stash (basically SSF), I don’t get good boots with some movement speed or weapon (XBow) with 2 essential modifiers.
I’m still struggling (am I the only one?) So, I need to re-do the highest level maps repeatedly till I am over level than the Act Bosses. Buffing the loot drops allows me to have more “chance” to craft better equipments. But if no luck (for me still zero luck), then need to level up a bit more & try the boss again. If failed a couple times, back to levelling again…. (Btw, during this process, I found no upgrade at all so far). But it’ll become slower & slower.
There are vids showing builds can progress faster. Perhaps after trying several builds blindly by myself 1st. Then I’ll start looking other metas.
I’ve been running maps all day and the amount of rares and good orbs dropping is insane. I’m not even juicing my maps either I’m just using the magic tier ones that drop.
My only issue with the game so far is the honor system and bosses in ascendancy 3+. They are just absolutely brutal even with a good defensive minion build every single attack is a 1 shot to your health or honor.
I don't believe they should spend to much time adjusting the act 1-3 bosses in cruel since for the final game those bosses won't be getting a second play through. Also one thing to consider on your power level once you hit Level 52 and you start getting those level 13 skill gems on the warrior i have falling hammer and I'm doing massive damage just with having that skill before I even got any upgrades I think they should spend their time focusing on finishing acts 4-6 and then tuning the end game maps in beta.
Also I feel loots drips are in a decent place now IMO
Very similar to how some went almost the whole campaign without a single drop and others rolled into act 1 and got a gg weapon that can carry them through to maps - I don't think the buff is too much. I genuinely think I would've enjoyed my early progression way more if I didn't feel like I was struggle bussing because of gear. Like, I don't think I had much res outside of what quests gave till act 2 or 3 - hence I died to a lot of random stuff (and I was doing my damnedest to craft and scour over vendors). It's great actually being able to build defensively now.
Probably changes wildly by character. Playing warrior i was finally able to craft an okayish weapon at level 34. Feels like i can clear areas a bit faster, and i am not poking bosses with a spoon.
Think boss fights need this adjustment: less one shots available, more life/def/res.
Rare drops should actually be good. Make them drop less.
Add more crafting stuff to try to make a good rare.
But dropped rates should have a higher chance to be great, but lower rate to find in the open
I play minion witch and I die and it is hell. There is no loot that support minions... every item that I have (and actually buffs minions) is bought from the shop.
that's a good point. I ended up going for cast on minion death on skeletons with burning legion and instability so they end up doing fire damage in combination with contagion build
People don't really talk about this, but Uniques drop at a great rate before the patch, and probably an even better rate now.
I would say loot right now is a LIIIIITTTLE on the high side now, but I think they key now is just to NOT TOUCH IT.
Leave it where it is, and maybe only shuffle currency amounts.
I really think the loot is perfect because you should really only want to pick up rares for your build and I am still encouraged to do so. I don't know where the inventories of loot are coming from but I feel like you've either been incredibly lucky or you're picking up too much. As long as loot matters, we're no where near poe 1.
agreed. i played for only an hour last night and got soo much loot. At first I was excited. That excitement quickly wore away.
hard disagree on it being close to loot pinata, im actually getting rares now but they are still uncommon enough that getting a good one for my class still feels great and only happens a few times per act, maybe 3 or 4 times for all of act 2? which is a very long act
I'd be okay if they lowered the rare drops but tuned the affix bands a bit more. Seeing rares drop initially was a great feeling, but IDing them to see 6% resistance 2.2 life regeneration and 9 mana is just disheartening from an endgame map.
Otherwise I feel that the current rate of rare drops is okay for what we're seeing. The white mobs feel fine, I agree with you there and bosses feel weaker, but I do think it's more because of player power progression as you get more support gems & ascendancy points than it is from getting items (see my initial statement as to why)
This happens with every ARPG. I’m enjoying the game. But, I doubt it’s long term appeal unless significantly more changes happen. And when that happens, everyone will crap on the game because it’s too “casual”. Seen it a million times. Happened with D4 and Last Epoch, too. Gamers never change. Lol
the only complaint about loot i have atm is just managing it. everytime i go back to town i have to identify, then go salvage, then disenchant, then sell for gold.
Crazy how small the adjustments were and how much of an impact that had for you. I played for 8hrs yesterday and didn’t even notice a difference with loot drops lol
During campaign, there's basically no crafting done other than trans+aug. No regals drop. I got maybe 2-3 during 50 lvls. They say they buffed it, but currency still barely drops. I thought Poe1 fresh leveling was slow and rough, but PoE2 just said: Hold my beer. I wished they would drop more low currency so we can at least use the limited crafting during leveling. Regals need to drop at least half of what trans and aug are. I have 40 transmutes and 20 augs while I've been using them regularly. I only dropped 1 regal in 2 days.
Yep this is what I want, drop the loot a bit touch and increase regals shards/orbs. Feels bad having a stash of magic items with good suffixes ready to regal only to sell them on for 3-5 transmutes
Maybe my build is kind of okay, but I was already having a much easier time with bosses before the loot changes in cruel, so it seems like increasing their hp is a good idea regardless
its so nice that everything ppl complain at this stage is just numbers things tbh. no core problems with the game. cant imagine the place this game will be in 12 months.
(i personally dont like the die once and lose the complete map thing, i hope that will be adjusted tbh.)
Yeah i mean the game is fantastic at its core! Just numbers tweaking needed
I played my electric archer build this morning from level 10 to 18, and white mobs and elites were how you described, continually kiting backwards all the way to the entrance, and then run all the way back through. The bosses on the other hand, were not really much of a problem, and less fear of death than the whites.
Also a bit of a bug with the side quest mini boss things: if you die and respawn at the marker, the whole map respawns. It happened to me in the tombs today, and a few days ago on my sorc character doing the Ominous Altars quest in Freythorn, I thought I was going crazy as it would respawn the other alters that had already been cleared, and I couldn't get the foggy one to clear.
It certainly feels better. I'm not sure it needs to get buffed more, but I'd also be ok with a slight nerf, though I'm ok with where it current sits.
They should just add a feature in the options that allows certain players to increase loot in an offline mode so not everybody has to play the same. Personally I thought the loot was perfect pre patch.