"Living Famously - Karen Carpenter" BBC Documentary (Pt 3)
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Excellent Documentary produced by BBC.
Some great clips and concert footage, as well as interviews by Caroline Corr, Herb Alpert, Burt Bacharach, Jerry Moss, John Bettis, Phil Ramone, Frank Pooler, Mike Curb, Randy Schmidt, and others.
Go here for Pt 4: • "Living Famously - Kar...
Visit www.GoCarpenter... to help induct the Carpenters into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame!
Karen seemed to have looked, sounded and been at her happiest in 1971. She was quite slim, but looked very healthy, gorgeous and sounded absolutely wonderful! Being a professional singer myself, I know that you can lose a lot of weight when you are performing live and making albums! I lost a lot of weight very quickly when I was starting out in my singing career. I often didn't have time to eat. I was very stressed about how successful my album, tour, or both were going to be, and soon I was extremely thin. I was so focused on my singing that it wasn't until my vocal coach approached me and said that I had to put back on some weight as nasty rumours were being spread that I was anorexic, that I realised how thin I'd become. Naturally I was furious as it was absolutely untrue. So I wonder if this was also the case in the beginning for Karen, but sadly she did go on to develop anorexia nervosa and bulimia. Thank God I didn't, but I was still very thin until I took a long hiatus. People don't realise the pressure you are under, whether you're a professional actor, dancer, or singer to look and be your best all the time. Obviously the eating disorders were her way of trying to look her best all the time. How wrong poor Karen was. May she rest in everlasting peace.
So happy and beautiful playing the drums!!!
I didn't know people thought the Carpenters had some kind of incest going on. To me, it just seems like they only knew each other due to being so busy & not having that free time to be around others. So it makes sense to me that they would move in together. They worked together; spent all that time together; it would just be second nature to have that close contact whenever something comes up. As for the love songs, they were working partners. Who else would they sing with, you know?
Exactly. This piece has a whiff of the tabloids about it. Still exploiting Karen's story.
Just because you have trouble with being in a relationship or single for a long time doesn't make you gay. This coming from me who's been single for most of my life. Why are people so judgemental about singletons? It's like that even these days.
I agree 100 percent. I had a lot of small minds in my family. They thought a woman had to be with a man,get married,and immediately start having as many babies as possible. I wanted to pursue my own happiness,and accomplish things on my own. My great grandmother asked me because I was single if I was a lesbian. It hurt me deeply that my only worth was wrapped up in my ability to nasty,and reproduce.
@@revdrtiffanyfoster Your relatives probably call you a 'carpet-muncher' behind your back as a joke, though. That's how family is. Like in the song "Don't mind people grinning in your face," Jack White's fave song; he came from a big family, so it resonated with him.
How does aconversation get so off topic and morph into homophobic iconoclastic parallel of karens life. My mother thru that out at me too and i was deeply scarred about it ever since.I thought iwas normal just oversensitive. My other sibling idk. Just sweep it under the rug and dont talk about your family that way. I can never give up hope of a normal relationship as i was taught. There seems to be ghost bloggers texters waiting to pounce and chime in as wd see fit oops.
Even if it begins with dieting in pursuit of a "feminine" ideal, anorexia, once it gets going, doesn't have much to do with looking good or feminine. It's an anxiety disorder that expresses itself through obsessive weight loss. It happens to tomboys, it happens to feminists, it happens to all sorts of down-to-earth smart people.
And it happened to her because of one insensitive remark made by a jealous high school despiser who said said she was chubby.
But it doesn't happen to fat chicks, the ones who could benefit from it. A cruel paradox.
@@jameschristian848 As well as a snippy remark in a newspaper article calling her “chubby.” But this American culture is so lethally weight-conscious for women that “feeling fat” can be self-generated.
@@lesliegoodman-malamuth9796 I never heard that, I heard it was her mom that gave her the complex. Richard was always the favorite and the mom doeted on him. Actually when was surprised at both of them were slightly heavy when they started out. But I read Karen didnt like her hips and would ride an exercise bike alot when on the road. Richard look pill I believe. They both developed anxiety about the camera magnifying their weight by adding 10 lbs on the screen.
this highly rated comment above is dead on, this psychologist is so sure of something she has no first hand knowledge, yet is talking like she does and is spot on certain of it. It's not only annoying to listen to, but an insult to this otherwise excellent BBC series.
I find it very disgusting, inappropriate and ugly that someone should imply that there was something sexually intimate that could have been going on between this brother and sister team.This was nothing that would have ever crossed my mind then or now until this BBC documentary. Shame on those who would want to detract from their beautiful contribution in music to the world. Just because there is so much social aberration today in our sick society and world doesn't mean that the Carpenters' close familial relationship needs to be besmirched by such innuendos.
+Rosa Cardona i know right! and this national enquirer rag mag editor mike walker suggests that others even alot of people thought this? HUH! never once have I EVER EVER THOUGHT OF THIS! what a sicko he is and he's the one with the perverted mind!... and i've been a fan since the early 70's! they sang love songs and were brother and sisters, a musical professional duo! what is so damn hard or weird for people to understand? i mean were they looking into each other's eyes singing these songs! of course not! sick sick mentality of these people to even think this stuff, much less suggest it!...
Believe me, they were fucking each other.
Oh really - Don't think so somehow
Richard and Karen were very driven perfectionists, and most people don't know how much work they had to put into producing their music. Everything just wasn't set up for them, and they'd go in an sing and leave. The whole product was their creation; Richard's selection of the material, the arrangements and orchestrations, their stacked backing vocals, Karen's lead track, Richard playing nearly every keyboard track, and Karen playing a lot of the drum work, plus all of the production and mixing. I think Karen and Richard were more passionate about their music than their romantic lives, but leave it to the demented public and press to come up with some other false answer to their personal lives. Agnes, their mother, was very controlling, and I think they probably felt guilty moving out of the family home, and thought if they at least shared a house, it would soften the blow. The creepy thought that people would say there was something sexual between them is really sick...
fool4singing GOOD POST and true...of course it's BEYOND sick to think what these people in the video were thinking! then again, look at who they are and what they do for a living! enough said! people like this do not have mirrors in their homes!...
The therapist isn't technically 'off,' but she really seems emotionally invested, there. Jeeez.
And what was wrong with Karen's image. This so called journalist and Holly weirdo Executive contributed to Karen's eating disorder/death. I am very well aware of eating disorders. During my tenure as a mental health therapist, I have treated women diagnosed with Anorexia Nervosa. The underlying issues with Anorexia Nervosa stem from Anxiety, Depression, Guilt, Low Self Esteem, Inadequacy, not to mention lack of confidence and insecurities, that leads to inward self punishment and the need for self-control. Instead of confronting those with dominant personalities, one turns to self-punishment and a sense of self-control.
1:50 the Butter Queen was the Dallas, Texas groupie Barbra Cope, a former David Cassidy groupie, among many others. She was mentioned in the Stones song "Rip this Joint." Cope used butter as a lubricant for sex, as Marlon Brando did in "Last Tango"; she died at age 67, as did David Cassidy. She died in a house fire.
Karen carpenters talent could have benefited enormously if i had been given a chance to be a part of her life . you dont think im being to grandiose about this ????
That's what I was thinking. I wished she had met someone like you, her rock.
If Karen had survived Anorexia, I hoped that she would've made some decisions to give Carpenters a break and venture out on her own and get a band together where she can play on the drums. The videos I am seeing of her on the drums is where she's the most happiest.
Such a fascinating person. There are so many of them throughout history..huge talent, huge demons.
that therapist is right on
Love them still
Oh i know so do i. She actually looked thru a curved mirrored effect. No no no she did it deliberately as if to punish the one said those cruel poisnous. Words u know what i mean.
i have no idea why everyone's so hard on Anna Raeburn. her certitude of tone may be a little jarring, but every single thing she's saying here has been corroborated by the other speakers, by every Carpenters biography, by other documentaries, and even by the TV film, The Karen Carpenter Story, which Richard co-produced.
Really, Lovely '70s.
For a solid dose of the '70s, check out Elton's "Caribou" one of my fave albums.
I really appreciate this documentary. I have to add that unlike the comment that was made that this was a liaison in the name of family values. From all the research I have done this was a liaison between the mother and the daughter and the son as we call, psychic incest in the business. Had they gotten help, they would have survived and been free of a very insidious condition. So too bad for such a talent. But we had them for a brief time
Karen Carpenter FOREVER
Anorexia is not usually actually all about the weight. A lot of times it is about the control. Maybe it was the one thing she felt she could control (food) in her life and she took charge.
Its a shame, she died too young. No matter what the psychological reasons for her disorder... its too bad that the awareness wasn't as prevalent as it is now.
@vmuto, why do you have this great fascination with trashing Randy Schmidt? He has a great love for Karen, and the book he created, is beautiful. LITTLE GIRL BLUE has fascinated a lot of people, judging by sales of it. Kudos Randy!
It’s a remarkably well-written book. People who’d never spoken publicly about Karen, such as Frenda Leffler Franklin (thanks so much, Frenda!), went into great detail on the record.
National Inquirer and Star magazine...Really!!!!!!
The Butter Queen, indeed... ;-)
Barbra Cope died since you posted that. She was the Butter Queen. She slept with David Cassidy, and they both died at age 67. For him, it was booze; for her, a house fire.
When Karen's brother started dating she always had to be with him ,but when she had a date with someone she always went with them alone.
Either a control freak or maybe he was a controlling of her and it was her way of getting back at him.
The comment from the two guys in the band about them living with their parents being less weird than moving in together is really true. I'm sure it wasn't incestuous in the literal sense, but their closeness was too close to be healthy. Great artists are often very insecure.
Their hit song 'close to you' could be sung to each other.
Enmeshed
No stupid therapist! Karen liked being behind the drums because CLEARLY it was her PASSION. Can you say PASSION?? She started dying the minute they took her out from behind the drums. And BTW I never liked Richard. I thought he had too much control over Karen..
I just loved resonating voice the way she pronounced her vocals. She was sick in more ways than one. Ive made peace with it i forgive her...
Great drumming!!
The make-up artists really messed badly with Karen's eyebrows at certain points, raising then them alarmingly. It so did not suit her.
These mothers and fathers...who ruin everything....the young ones today have changed....they wouldn't let you
Yowch, methinks the Butter Queen was the original butterface, hence the name.
They didn’t write Close To You or We’ve Only Just Begun so the statement about them is dumb. CTY was handed to him and Richard discovered WOJB via a TV commercial.
If the Carpenters were Anna's clients she would be bound to keep things confidential.
You "hate" Anna b/c she has a different opinion than you do?? Strange ...
Effortless. Just natural beauty. Karen Carpentar.
The therapist needs a therapist herself. Where does she come from?
If this is true about Butter Queen, the "condition" was probably to get rid of her. Does anyone think that Karen Carpenter would really go through with it?
jfryza:
I somehow doubt it. Maybe they WERE abnormally close, but from what I've heard about Karen Carpenter, I doubt the closeness extended to sex.
No, that was the idea..
Terrible thing about jokes. You have to have a brain to get them frequently.
Would have been pretty cool if she did though lol
@SoftRazor12 That is a very good summary, I fully agree. But then, most psychiatrist have a bracket world, where they desperately try to squeeze you in. It never occurs to them that the human psyche is a little more complicated than what they learned during their education.
@SoftRazor12 yeah! she didn't even know her!!!
Karen was an incredible singer and shouldn't have been exposed to crude acerbic tales about her weight.. Most people know being in the public eye,you will be scrutinze. But at the same token, talented people didn't really sign up for that..but the entrenched industry says other wise. Karen had everything her Family always in her corner but,something apparantly was wrong. We shouldn't be astute.She was an amazing talent,who left us timeless work to cherish.
Perhaps you might mean obtuse in place of astute. But maybe I am mistaken.
That psychiatrist is like Nurse Diesel from High Anxiety. Scary woman.
No, she's just sick of the bullshit and everyone tiptoeing around the truth. I love her aggression and ability to cut through the bullshit and lies.
That is really what Anorexics need of course.
I wonder what she would think if she were here now seeing how women are happy with what shape they are. You know taking the Karen Carpenter out of 1975 and putting her in 2008 how would she feel? It's sad that when she wanted help it was too late, if only she knew what she was doing to herself...
Well we have an epidemic of boobs implants and fake butt and lip implants so who knows. We also have an epidemic of depression, mental illness and drug addiction today so I think she would have done worse today. Women in media all have the fake plastic look today. In the 50's, 60's and 70's, men preferred the natural looking real woman.
Today women are changing their bodies to unnatural proportions more than any time.
how is playing drums being a "tomboy"? huh?
It isn't. Load of sexist crap. But sexism was rife in the 1970's, especially before punk.
I started playing drums in 1970 and so many people...mostly boys...told me girls can’t play drums. I just figured they were jealous because they weren’t picked to play them 😜
It was back in the day. Different times.
Regardless, Karen was somewhat a Tomboy. Softball was one of her favorite activities.
@@tracypaxton1054 "She plays softball" is code for lesbian to some people, it seems. When Elana Kagen was nominated to the high court, they showed a picture of her playing softball in the newspaper. Why did the gay lobby go nuts? They said it was a gay-bashing picture, as if to call Kagen gay by printing it. She is gay, though. So who cares.
That shrink is obnoxious & just bloody excited to hear the sound of her own voice. Considering she never treated Karen, it's tacky to make broad generalizations. Still, some of what she said is logical & could be accurate. Anorexia is fairly easy to diagnose, but its incredibly difficult to treat. There's never 1 simple answer to the many "why's." Its like peeling away layers of an onion. Overbearing Mom & unhealthy co-dependent relationship w/ brother would likely only scratch the surface.
those people realy must visit an optalmologist coz Karen was never chubby!!!
Back then you weren’t allowed to have a large butt. No one would have said that about her today.
She was as a child and into her teens. Because she got teased for it in school and perhaps criticized by her mother, she always saw herself as chubby, even when she was skeletal.
@MsTrumpetplayer How do you know? What do you know that the rest of us don't? Please share.
I've never heard of this "butter queen". Had to look it up. How sick is that, She wanted to do Richard, but would have to do Karen too? This industry is very sick and demented. No wonder so many of them go off the deep end.
Well you can’t just leave your only sister out lol
So true. What I find funny is the "cat lady" label. Why is it that a guy can have dogs, even if they run around barking and unattended, and it's all cool? A single woman, especially "of a certain age" is a fixed with the cat lady stamp.
I reckon she looked way better when she was "chubbier"
at least younger...
The ButterQueen never did any of them. Karen really didn't have the time to put her mind on the sexual aspect of life. She was really someone who would rather stay home on a friday night.
NO Agnes...Everything Richard did was great as far as you were concerned.
Great Documentary with the exception of seeing the overly "scripted" Randy Schmidt. Randy seems convinced he lived in this time with Karen & Richard.The Facts are, those of us who lived it know more than Rand Schmidt only wishes he knew. I know Randy sickens alot of people. He's like the Biggest Carpenters leetch. Stick to your day job Randy please!
Agree with you. I went to a public library and read "Little Girl Blue". By the time I reached the end ,I was so happy I never shelled out money for it.
roy didlock Why are you guys being such assholes about Randy? What is he saying or doing that is causing such passionate animosity?
Karen being jealous on Richard having a date?!?!? CUTE :)
"If it now is not acceptable to be a tomboy, and you have to be a real girl: the first thing you do is to attack your waight!"
Pwaa, would not want this woman to explain me to anyone after my death.
Anna is a real piece of work, ugh!
I think it is a great tragedy. Her mother dir not love her very much. Her son Richard was the favourite one! And Richard was a bit jealous of her! She was great!!
There is no need to be overly critical of one more risque point of view. (Commenters that are dismissive of some of the suggestions in this documentary.) Naturally family would want an approved, sanitized biography. The truth probably lies somewhere between the salacious and the squeeky clean and its up to the viewer to discern. No one truely knows except those directly related to the situation.
I agree, but I think what she was trying to say is for Karen to have a big butt was bad because it meant you wre fat, I remember years ago, women were obsessed with having flat butts because they wanted this pancake model stick look, I think it's ridiculous, and she was right, Karen did have a Jennifer Lopez figure, I saw her in a bikini I think back in the early 70s and her butt was huge! She had a great figure, it's just sad she couldn't love herself.
The psychologist is a quack
The whole world is still longing and misses a Karen Anne Carpenter..It's really sad because she's gone now.Personally,i still feel mad to Richard and to their mother..they are one of the reason why Karen slowly killed her life by taking some (drugs/medicines)that caused her to death..I don't want to intrude,but let us face the fact that maybe Richard had a deep feelings to her sister...that too Karen knew it so it hard for her get away for it,so decided to marry Tom Burris.Sorry but it's only my opinion..
I hadn't even noticed that she was pear shaped. Even now, I still don't.
When I think of Karen, if it's not about her inimitable vocals, it's about a THIN girl who grew up into a REALLY thin young woman and died.
Comparing her backside to Jennifer Lopez is just bizarre. When someone sees J-Lo for the first time in their life, they're going to first notice her face and then her ass.
Can anyone honestly say that that's how they would see Karen the first time?
Besides, when she sings, she's perfect
I thought Karen looked great, even before she went on those horrendous weight loss episodes, well maybe I being man, from my perspective a woman who is a little pear-shaped isn't a bad thing, not at all. In fact to me Karen looked simply wonderful, pear shaped or not. You accept a person for who he or she is, not how they look physically.
> sexually flaunted themselves, nobody would have batted an eyelid (these days) and nobody would have made any money out of reading murky goings on into their life (and childhood).
So they are a God Send to the likes of Anna Raeburn et al (& a meal-ticket).
But the give away is in the detail isn't it? Of course they were close - they lived and breathed each other - that's how they produced this incredible music. yes she was shy-she hid behind the drums at first before 'coming out'. >
Of course she was jealous of Richards girl friends and they had an 'unreal' rleationship. hey had an unreal life.And yes their parents were 'stage-school parents'.Who wouldn't be with talents like that. And yes -Karen had body issues and her catapulting into fame and into being 'front person' just made those spiral out of control. And Yes - she might be here now if the Carpenters had never happened. They were naiive, neither liked partying, she was shy and both seemed to defy 70's promiscuity>
This is a sleazy "documentary" featuring a "therapist" who seems an annoying know-it-all. Rubbish half of this.
dang, they were really fucked up! who knew?!
Richard Carpenter had a girlfriend? Really? I always thought that both Karen and Richard were gay. I think that the therapist makes a lot sense about Karen's situation.
they were totally dedicated to success in their career, had no time for relationships...but she did date Tony Danza and others.
My gaydar pings on Karen. Not saying she was "closeted," but maybe she wasn't even aware of it herself. (Not just because she played the drums either). She didn't seem to ever fully realize her romantic/sexual potential with men anyway. Don't downvote; just sharing my opinion :)