Also its more like the one unexplained untechable situation in Smash 4, where if you're immediately colliding with a wall the frame you get knocked back from being hit by a move, then you can't tech. Thanks to Balloon knockback, it just has a more pronounced affect at lower percents than in Smash 4.
@@ekotedepoulet4014 I fixed up my sentence a bit. Though really it just seems to be that way. Also yeah red quake effects mean that its an untechable as well. Though it doesn't seem to happen with ground bounces...?
yo, this is a HUGE needed buff to heavy weights overall which always felt lacking in all smash games, they're really working to give you reasons to not always pick the fastest character as they might also be lighter
that's a bit arbitrary if you ask me. Let player skill be the deciding factor. I wont help heavys that much anyway because heavies sucked at landing and getting GIMPED not getting stage spiked allot. It wont help bowser or dk it could help K ROOL and that's about it I think. I Think this change was unneeded honestly
i dont know if its really a buff because heavyweights tend to be easier to camp, combo, and especially edgeguard. it might make some of the ones with weaker recoveries even more abusable to be honest
I did though i did tipe "n't" behind the can...But stupid auto Typing Had Different Ideas...anyway You can make it One was or the other^^ (and now i'm searching for the Option to turn the Autotyping Off. It's Even more anoying to Write something in English if You are from Germany...Thats a Nigthmare)
Rosso Simo imagine getting the hypest read ever when your opponent is at 200%+, stage spiking them, and then they just press shield and the moment is gone
@@NickbroNine if that was the case then it would very annoying when it comes to online play when some people would be almost unkillable so I think this mechanic is very good
I personally think it's great. It ensures most kill combos reliant on spikes as starting points WILL connect. It also makes successfully catching a player during the recovery much more rewarding for characters without strong spikes (or with only access to suicidal spikes, which is about the same thing). Additionally, this is new mechanic could mean the return of some stages with walls to the competitive scene, whose main reason for bans are the caves of life created by teching, and the infinite combos that are no longer possible due to the balloon knockback. It is a really interesting potential change to consider in rulesets in my opinion.
Melee has a 20 frame tech window and you can’t input a tech during hitlag or when you hit a surface. Melee techs lean way more towards prediction than reaction.
At high enough %'s this is actually kind of a good thing because it makes your disadvantage state even worse, punishing you for having gotten damaged / being offstage while high % to begin with. Rewarding good play with good timing /w techs is a great thing, yeah, but punishing bad playstyles i.e. being reckless / playing lucario, is honestly pretty good, and'll definitely help the meta speed things up a bit especially in the edgeguard department. Light characters offstage now could be pretty terrified.
thank you i thought i was the only one who realised this omg everything being techable would result in a meta based around spikes and hanging at ledge THAT'S EVEN WORSE THAN BRAWL WHERE THE META WAS ... well meta meta ... meta wait a minute meta meta knight hmmmmmmmmmm🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
The best channel, I swear to God. Get direct, succinct info with no cringey or corny forced personality nonsense. Clear visuals to accompany simple explanations. Appealing thumbnails. And SMOOTH Austrian(?) accents. Am I beefy? You bet your ass I'm beefy.
Ive actually noticed that in that area, you can never really tech the first bounces at high percents but the more you bounce the easier it is to tech. this vid perfectly explains it
It makes untechables have more logic behind them. The red ring particle effect is a really nice edition because before that you didn’t really know if you could tech or not. I mean, it makes sense that every character has an untechable stage spike above 110 percent or so because the knock back is so high anyway. But honestly, the lower threshold for the on stage spike untechable is a bit frustrating. Unless it would be really difficult if not impossible for the character doing the spiking to follow up.
You can't wait for them to stand up, you can mash out of a jab lock with get up attack. If you jab lock, you must IMMEDIATELY punish or else you'll get attacked from get up. Jab twice, and without delay smash attack.
@@TheFirstRamenKamen Set the training CPU to smash attack and ground them and try to jab lock and allow them to stand up. You'll eat a get up attack everytime.
I like this mechanic. It makes there be a limit to just how long someone can survive for after being hit by strong attacks, and is another incentive to go offstage for edgeguards. I don't really see much of a negative to this at all, all of those tech chain montage clips where someone gets stagespiked 4-5 times but manages to survive every time do still exist because those clips mostly happen at mid percents where they're still techable. ------ It also drastically benefits the fair-ness of cave-of-life stages. Probably not enough to make them tournament legal, but at least now there's a limit to how long people will just survive on them for if they get rolled randomly online. And it also stops Snake from being able to stall infinitely under the stage with his C4.
How about a look at the weird properties of angled surfaces? They have this weird sticky effect where you follow them up and down and it has some really weird effects. Incineroar's side special can send you gliding up the side if the rope is inside an angled surface. Additionally, I've had several times where a spike doesn't go straight down but rides the angle under the stage and never truly hits the stage.
Maybe I'm still looking at this game wearing rose tinted glasses, but I really like this change. I always liked teching as a mechanic, but felt I it got rediculously overpowered at some point. You could launch your opponent at over light speed such that a wormhole, bending time and space, formed along his trail, but a light tap on the wall with his free hand would instantly stop his momentum. I love this as it both balances teching as an (in some cases) silly OP mechanic, removes the stupid randomness while also buffing heavies somewhat. Heavies are the ones that will clearly benefit the most as they are more resiliant to knockback and, arguably still, most in need of buffs.
I like this change because it means at higher percents Captain falcon and ganondorf can no longer be punished for landing their up specials when trying to recover. (Previously you could jump tech the knockback then you would be in the perfect position to spike them with a dair)
I realized this problem yesterday while practicing teching in training mode. If you go frame by frame, when characters suffer incredibly high knockback, in one frame they are under hitlag, and in the next frame they are already slamming on the wall. This gives no reaction time to tech a hit.
I placed the CPU on the ledge, set it to"Side Smash" and I stood right next to it. I was Mario so my weight is only 98 units. At 150% damage my launch speed was so high that once hitlag ended, in the next frame I instantly slammed into the wall.
This is super important for me, as a mewtwo main good techs on high percent can be extremly good to survive longer. In fact i just love this videos cause you can actually use this knowledge to improve yourself and get into the competetiv scene step by step. Keep it up!
I like it, I always found it kind of unsatisfying how you'd almost never see stage spikes kill in high level Smash 4, plus the restrictions teching grounded spikes, horizontal knockback and aerial spikes all seem like they add some combo potential, which is kinda nice to have since footstools, and platslides are tech-able now
I appreciate the change. Wall spikes are flashy and (frankly) awesome, so it’s nice to know I’ll see some cool stuff in competitive matches. It also encourages offstage aggression which i personally love. So, for me... good job, Sakurai
I'll miss those nearly infinite tech situations, but WON'T miss those untechable mechanics. But seriously, this seems like an unexpected, yet interesting mechanic.
This mechanic makes sense from both a logical, and a gameplay standpoint. It makes surviving at high percents that much more difficult and it benefits heavies who generally have bad recoveries
Untechable happens when there's no time between getting hit and striking the wall, which is only possible due to "balloon knockback". The red splash strongly indicates this is an intended mechanic. Meshima was researching this and tweeted about it, and it's been discussed in the Kurogane Hammer Discord server, if you wanna check my sources.
If you are in the tumbling animation, and you air dodge into the ground, you will tech in place. If you dodge diagonally, you will tech in that direction as well.
I'm glad it's just a threshold because good players would drag matches on way to long. You are 150? Just accept that lost stock when you lose it. This is why fighting games have block chip damage and such. Sure if you could perfect block everything that's "skillful" but if you are getting hit that much something eventually has to give. And in the end, you still "lost" the match because you let yourself get hit in the first place. This would apply even if teching was never a mechanic in the first place.
That ideology promotes campy never get hit defensive gameplay, more mechanics to survive longer via hard tech is great, and builds more aggressive hunting of the kill, which is what Melee has, you can tech literally everything in melee
SharpEdgeSoda the fact that you had to say good player implies that you believe the act of tech actually requires skill to execute. If anything this new tech rewards bad players
@@MetalB1985 That's called a disadvantage state, you know where people don't wanna be? In that disadvantage spot, any game where the more damaged you are the more exponentially you get punished, it'll become a block-defensive camp fest.
@@AkiraSatou I'm not sure I see the difference there. That renders the idea of a high percentage sort of pointless in any direction a wall or platform may be located. Now the other player is not only basically fearless, but has rage on top of that. You want untechables, because without it the other player actually becomes stronger, not weaker when you hurt them.
I like how groud meteors can't be teched. It allows more combos and made some laggy down airs worth using. Toon link, for example, had a down air that was litteraly unsafe on hit .
this is actually amazing for ness. All the quick and easy edgeguards on ness like counter and rosa down b have been heavily nerfed. This means that if they wanna challenge ness, they gotta commit to a risky edgeguard, and if they screw up, then they get stage spiked, and PK Rocket has super high knockback, so the untechable could happen. So ya ness benefits greatly from this and I love it.
Love your videos. 1 suggestion is to not only use the new training mode(well not new but actually good enough to be useable) but also use the frame by frame option to showcase some of these super quick animations
I think these are all great changes, the red tech forces the player to avoid that situation at those percents rather than just teching the wall. I think it also helps to consider that there is an option select for teching while recovering by just pressing the shield button at the same time (Which they didn't remove from the game as far as I'm aware.) which makes teching stage spikes much easier. I don't have a problem with this, because I really like option selects, but since option selects do ultimately reduce some of the skill required in a given situation, putting the skill check somewhere that isn't covered by the OS (Not getting stage spiked in the first place.) seems completely fair and this opens up more options for edge guarding. Not being able to tech spikes while standing on the ground is fine too. I think it's fair to say if you have the ability to tech those on reaction then you most likely could've just shielded instead, and why should someone be punished for landing a hit? (Especially with the easier tech window?) This also removes accidental techs in these situations (Similar to how they also removed accidental perfect shields) and opens up a few more options for characters onstage. These all seem like pretty healthy and well-informed changes.
This mechanic makes more sense. Smash Ultimate was designed to have faster matches. That’s why things like less invincibility frames when you’re at a higher percent are in the game.
It's scary for sure knowing the enemy can kill you if you hug the ledge at high percents, but I also appreciate the mechanic. I've found a lot of characters with mostly upward recoveries like Fox tend to start playing tag at high percents, constantly jumping loops around the edge in hopes of keeping themselves alive for as long as possible. Now, hugging the ledge isn't completely safe anymore, and that's a relief. That said, I'll have to get the hang of recovering more outward when I'm at kill percent.
I don't think you should tech all the time, if you're still alive at high % then of course you should have some kind of disadvantage to be added to the fact that you're easy to kill. Most of the time you're going to tech these things are going to be times where you are available to do this anyway, don't tell me you see someone at 190% + being in these situations than you see someone at like... 70 or 90. On an added note, if a lighter fighter loses his or her ability to tech faster than a heavier character, it buffs heavyweights and other mid weight characters that don't excel in speed. After all, some high tier characters tend to always be the fast ones, while some lower tiers are heavies, so it's a good feature if it prioritizes bigger and heavier characters. So yeah, overall good that you can tech in situations where you couldn't before while also not making a badly injured fighter able to just magically tech just like a barely damaged fighter, and if you're THAT concerned over this improvement then just... don't grind your face against the stage and don't get spiked on the ground.
If you look at the guide, which is in the options menu iirc, the segment on teching says that you won't be able to do so if the knockback is too high. So it's definitely intended.
They tech right next to the damn wall at 150% and they act like nothing happened. Meanwhile if you tech a stage spike CPUs immediately punish you with a quick aerial after you tech, hitting you during the 40 cooldown frame and stage spiking you again.
this is actually lowkey sick. It will make playing in the pit less annoying in Hyrule, and the other big stages (of course this is only for casual matches). Its a small buff to heavy characters. It will give some guranteed deaths, combos, and setups at high percent. Idk, not bad. Its different, but Id say in a good way.
Pretty good change. I think this will also mean that in high level play pros should know the exact percentages at which they can still tech and based on that decide their recovery.
As someone who plays Cloud and doesn't have Ultimate yet... All I could hear after hearing he can tech anytime during Up-B (Till the percent where it becomes untechable) was Hallelujah
Honestly riding the ledge is bs in how safe it is. At least with teching not available taking that very safe option every time has the potential for high punish. Otherwise there is literally no reason not to just do it every time.
Quality video as always, Doods! I personally think the mechanic is going to be something I and others are upset by for a while, but I think it does a lot of good, like making stage-spikes matter more, nerfing caves of life in a non-random way, and buffing heavy characters' survivability. Using LSI like that too is a very skillful thing to mix into your gameplay, and this is undoubtedly better than the way Smash 4 handled untechables. HOWEVER, I would very much like to REQUEST testing from the community on something here (especially after I lose access to this Switch). I need to know: Is there ever a point where the cinematic KOs (end of a 1v1) or cinematic strong hits (PKT2, Falcon Punch, etc) can make you miss a tech? Like you try to tech within the 11 frames, but the game deciding to do the cinematic might make you miss the timing? Does it freeze the counter for time to tech too? I know this might seem like it just overlaps with the red wallsplat untechable in the video, but wall-techning spikes especially means you'll be avoiding KOs from the cinematic camera a lot and I want to know if it's possible to miss the timing or correct yourself on it when this happens. Thanks again for the video!
Hey BSD, I found something interesting! Up-Bs are nerfed! You can only sweetspot the ledge up to 6 times, a seventh attempt will fail and you fall to your doom. I tested it with 4 characters so seems to be universal
When I hear about Armada talking how disadvantage state in ultimate isn't harsh enough, the fact you lose tech at high % is one of those things that really makes offstage much more lethal. I think its smart design overall, rewards the player who is doing good while creating a purpose for stage spiking. If you could tech everything those kills would literally never happen and it makes stage interaction more boring.
Honestly, I fully support this change! Stage spikes and ground spikes are still techable some of the time, but now they're actually viable KO options at top-level play...~
It's consistent, so that's fair. And honestly it makes sense. Bracing for an impact wouldn't do much good after a certain point realistically. It also sort of balances some of the fast light characters a bit, while giving heavies a slight advantage in these situations. Also those "can always recover" characters get a nerf, so that's nice for those who don't play such characters. 8/10, decent mechanic.
I like the change, but am a little concerned at how much it disadvantages lightweights. Then again, it's not like heavyweights were ever top tier in earlier games... maybe it's finally their time to shine.
Oh yeah. Heavyweights are definitely shining in this game more than previous titles. The fact that every character can only air dodge once before getting hit/landing makes it easier for heavies to edgeguard.
@@vortex9604 True, although that's something of a double-edged sword vs projectile/sword characters too, since heavies get edgeguarded easier if they don't have some sort of crazy K Rool-esque recovery.
Boingboingsplat Lights are faster and have a harder time teching, while heavies are slower and have an easier time teching. Seems like a fair compromise to me.
I like the change. Smash doesn't have an HP bar, so getting to a point where you just cannot tech anymore because your damage is too high sounds alright with me.
Also. They changed the regrab mechanic in ultimate as well. If the character is flashing yellow after a set amount of time after a throw. U can regrab again. I was testing Roys up throw and managed to regrab fox on the way down. Not needing to hit him inbetween to reset the grab timer.
I actually like this. It makes it a lot more rewarding to go for risky edge guards and ground bounces at higher % because you know you're going to get the stage spike or the ground bounce combo. This could be good for certain characters who struggle to get reliable KO confirms, like Wolf.
So in other words, it's much like how rolling won't prevent fall damage after a certain point. Martial arts priciples in a fighting game. Who'dve thought it?
Hey, I actually made a tweet about this whole untechable thing a while ago They didnt mention it, but you may have noticed that when you're unable to tech, at least on a wall, the recoil ring will always be red and blue, mostly red. This way you'll always know when or when not something was untechable. Edit: I believe this occurs on ceilings too
If you guys ever played Ganondorf on For Glory and hit the Sandbag with his d-air or jab, you might remember how weird Sandbag look without hitstun. That’s how the knock back looks like in Ultimate
I really like this mechanic. If someone wins neutral, puts their opponent in an off stage situation where they can be knocked into the stage and lands the righr move at the right percent, they should get a stock. Also camping near a wall and relying on techs to not die is no longer a viable option
![How To NEVER Miss This Tech [SMASH REVIEW 194]](/img/n.gif)
If the explode on the wall is red it's untechable
*Vision 100*
Also its more like the one unexplained untechable situation in Smash 4, where if you're immediately colliding with a wall the frame you get knocked back from being hit by a move, then you can't tech. Thanks to Balloon knockback, it just has a more pronounced affect at lower percents than in Smash 4.
Holy shit-
@@ekotedepoulet4014 I fixed up my sentence a bit. Though really it just seems to be that way. Also yeah red quake effects mean that its an untechable as well. Though it doesn't seem to happen with ground bounces...?
Nice! Helps a lot, thx
yo, this is a HUGE needed buff to heavy weights overall which always felt lacking in all smash games, they're really working to give you reasons to not always pick the fastest character as they might also be lighter
that's a bit arbitrary if you ask me. Let player skill be the deciding factor. I wont help heavys that much anyway because heavies sucked at landing and getting GIMPED not getting stage spiked allot. It wont help bowser or dk it could help K ROOL and that's about it I think. I Think this change was unneeded honestly
i dont know if its really a buff because heavyweights tend to be easier to camp, combo, and especially edgeguard. it might make some of the ones with weaker recoveries even more abusable to be honest
I didn't say it fixed heavy weight's problems I said it's a good buff
But yeah, all fair points, all I'm saying that heavies will live even longer
You also have K Rool
Oh LOL that explains a lot! On day 1 I tried practicing techs in Hyrule at 999% and just kept dying thinking man I suck at this game lol
Next Time "Can we Parry everything?" Every move which can be Parryed
I think it would be easier to list the moves that can't be parried.
I did though i did tipe "n't" behind the can...But stupid auto Typing Had Different Ideas...anyway You can make it One was or the other^^ (and now i'm searching for the Option to turn the Autotyping Off. It's Even more anoying to Write something in English if You are from Germany...Thats a Nigthmare)
Fox D-Air can be parried but thats all I know.
JediritterGER dude just edit your comment
Nope. That Would be to easy And not Funny ;)
I'm liking these changes. Much better than it was in Smash 4
This is a really fair trade. No dumb untechable Glitches but a balanced mechanic.
Thanks, Sakurai.
Edit: Over 100 likes in just an hour :D
Yeah
@Bulbmin 66 yet they do feel like they are
A really balanced mechanic would have been the chance to tech literally everything
@@degron and then you wouldn't be able to kill a good player with stage spikes or ground spikes. Yeah, really fair
Rosso Simo imagine getting the hypest read ever when your opponent is at 200%+, stage spiking them, and then they just press shield and the moment is gone
Anyone saying this is a bad mechanic and liked untechables in Smash 4 probably liked tripping in Brawl too
@@NickbroNine if that was the case then it would very annoying when it comes to online play when some people would be almost unkillable so I think this mechanic is very good
I personally think it's great. It ensures most kill combos reliant on spikes as starting points WILL connect. It also makes successfully catching a player during the recovery much more rewarding for characters without strong spikes (or with only access to suicidal spikes, which is about the same thing).
Additionally, this is new mechanic could mean the return of some stages with walls to the competitive scene, whose main reason for bans are the caves of life created by teching, and the infinite combos that are no longer possible due to the balloon knockback. It is a really interesting potential change to consider in rulesets in my opinion.
I'm fine with it especially given how easy it is to tech now.
It's like Melee tech, if I'm not wrong!
@@EtheRenard It does feel like melee timing to me too
Melee has a 20 frame tech window and you can’t input a tech during hitlag or when you hit a surface. Melee techs lean way more towards prediction than reaction.
At high enough %'s this is actually kind of a good thing because it makes your disadvantage state even worse, punishing you for having gotten damaged / being offstage while high % to begin with. Rewarding good play with good timing /w techs is a great thing, yeah, but punishing bad playstyles i.e. being reckless / playing lucario, is honestly pretty good, and'll definitely help the meta speed things up a bit especially in the edgeguard department. Light characters offstage now could be pretty terrified.
thank you i thought i was the only one who realised this omg
everything being techable would result in a meta based around spikes and hanging at ledge
THAT'S EVEN WORSE THAN BRAWL WHERE THE META WAS ... well
meta
meta
...
meta
wait a minute
meta
meta knight
hmmmmmmmmmm🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Lol did you just say playing Lucario is a bad playstyle?
“/playing lucario” that made my sides hurt sir
@@thecookiemeister5374 SAME XD
Taking away a skill to survive longer is not better for the game ..
The best channel, I swear to God. Get direct, succinct info with no cringey or corny forced personality nonsense. Clear visuals to accompany simple explanations. Appealing thumbnails. And SMOOTH Austrian(?) accents.
Am I beefy? You bet your ass I'm beefy.
I like it this way, it gives incentive to play heavy characters.
Sylver Lune not really they should just allow you to tech anything like before
Yeah, it's cool.
Not really considering how easy it'll be to get heavies into those thresholds just as easy if not easier than other weight classes.
@@prl4122 but you couldnt tech everything in smash 4, you couldnt even tech foot stools
nerhip ' yeah smash 4 isn’t the only smash game, there are some that called melee and brawl and they came before smash 4
Mannn I can't have tech parties on Temple :(
N'omi Gordon I know right
We called that area techsas (texas) but no longer :(
That was my first thought! :(
Since you hit multiple walls on temple your velocity might reduce when you reach a second wall, its not the same but a second wall could save you.
Ive actually noticed that in that area, you can never really tech the first bounces at high percents but the more you bounce the easier it is to tech. this vid perfectly explains it
The intro was godlike XD!
ecks dee
Semicolon closed parentheses
69 likes
It makes untechables have more logic behind them.
The red ring particle effect is a really nice edition because before that you didn’t really know if you could tech or not.
I mean, it makes sense that every character has an untechable stage spike above 110 percent or so because the knock back is so high anyway.
But honestly, the lower threshold for the on stage spike untechable is a bit frustrating.
Unless it would be really difficult if not impossible for the character doing the spiking to follow up.
Make a video about jablocks in ultimate👍
You can't wait for them to stand up, you can mash out of a jab lock with get up attack. If you jab lock, you must IMMEDIATELY punish or else you'll get attacked from get up.
Jab twice, and without delay smash attack.
weirdkid5 Gaming interesting. Ive never seen that happen.
@@TheFirstRamenKamen Set the training CPU to smash attack and ground them and try to jab lock and allow them to stand up. You'll eat a get up attack everytime.
It also seems like every jab (except for something like Zelda's) can jab lock now.
@@weirdkid5 Ooh, wait, could you use that on purpose to parry it and get a bigger punish? Some getup attacks are -really- long.
Can you do a video abouts buffering
Please
just press buttons 4head
*Someone call Megaman for Tech Support. :^)*
Yevi Network or rob
that shirt is a perfect desining of a joker kirby, once again nice work
1:17 That has never happened to my Cloud in Smash 4, but I'm still glad that untechable Climhazzard nonsense is finally gone.
I like this mechanic. It makes there be a limit to just how long someone can survive for after being hit by strong attacks, and is another incentive to go offstage for edgeguards.
I don't really see much of a negative to this at all, all of those tech chain montage clips where someone gets stagespiked 4-5 times but manages to survive every time do still exist because those clips mostly happen at mid percents where they're still techable.
------
It also drastically benefits the fair-ness of cave-of-life stages. Probably not enough to make them tournament legal, but at least now there's a limit to how long people will just survive on them for if they get rolled randomly online.
And it also stops Snake from being able to stall infinitely under the stage with his C4.
How about a look at the weird properties of angled surfaces? They have this weird sticky effect where you follow them up and down and it has some really weird effects. Incineroar's side special can send you gliding up the side if the rope is inside an angled surface. Additionally, I've had several times where a spike doesn't go straight down but rides the angle under the stage and never truly hits the stage.
If its consistent like this then I guess I dont really mind it.
I never actually knew what teching actually was so i'm very grateful for this vid~
Maybe I'm still looking at this game wearing rose tinted glasses, but I really like this change. I always liked teching as a mechanic, but felt I it got rediculously overpowered at some point. You could launch your opponent at over light speed such that a wormhole, bending time and space, formed along his trail, but a light tap on the wall with his free hand would instantly stop his momentum.
I love this as it both balances teching as an (in some cases) silly OP mechanic, removes the stupid randomness while also buffing heavies somewhat. Heavies are the ones that will clearly benefit the most as they are more resiliant to knockback and, arguably still, most in need of buffs.
I like this change because it means at higher percents Captain falcon and ganondorf can no longer be punished for landing their up specials when trying to recover. (Previously you could jump tech the knockback then you would be in the perfect position to spike them with a dair)
I realized this problem yesterday while practicing teching in training mode.
If you go frame by frame, when characters suffer incredibly high knockback, in one frame they are under hitlag, and in the next frame they are already slamming on the wall. This gives no reaction time to tech a hit.
I placed the CPU on the ledge, set it to"Side Smash" and I stood right next to it. I was Mario so my weight is only 98 units.
At 150% damage my launch speed was so high that once hitlag ended, in the next frame I instantly slammed into the wall.
True, but you can actually tech while slammed against the wall and even during the later part of hitstun!
Good change, and it even has a visual cue too
This is super important for me, as a mewtwo main good techs on high percent can be extremly good to survive longer. In fact i just love this videos cause you can actually use this knowledge to improve yourself and get into the competetiv scene step by step. Keep it up!
This means more combos, techchases and edguarding so I think it's good
I like it, I always found it kind of unsatisfying how you'd almost never see stage spikes kill in high level Smash 4, plus the restrictions teching grounded spikes, horizontal knockback and aerial spikes all seem like they add some combo potential, which is kinda nice to have since footstools, and platslides are tech-able now
"Do we tech those" should be the title of this video.
As a long time smash player who never really knew a lot about DI or teching, I love your videos! Thanks
Thank you for SHOWING WHEN to press shield to tech instead of just leaving it saying "just press shield" it's very helpful
I would've never even thought to think about this. This is suuuuper in depth.
I'm all for heavies having reasonable advantages instead of broken kill confirms. Good work, Sakurai.
3:00 Is that interaction between DK and Peach a coincidence or is that part of the game?
1:20-Captain Falcon is not pleased by Fox tickling his chin
I appreciate the change. Wall spikes are flashy and (frankly) awesome, so it’s nice to know I’ll see some cool stuff in competitive matches. It also encourages offstage aggression which i personally love.
So, for me... good job, Sakurai
I'll miss those nearly infinite tech situations, but WON'T miss those untechable mechanics. But seriously, this seems like an unexpected, yet interesting mechanic.
This mechanic makes sense from both a logical, and a gameplay standpoint. It makes surviving at high percents that much more difficult and it benefits heavies who generally have bad recoveries
Untechable happens when there's no time between getting hit and striking the wall, which is only possible due to "balloon knockback". The red splash strongly indicates this is an intended mechanic. Meshima was researching this and tweeted about it, and it's been discussed in the Kurogane Hammer Discord server, if you wanna check my sources.
This opens up way too many combo opportunities.
If you are in the tumbling animation, and you air dodge into the ground, you will tech in place. If you dodge diagonally, you will tech in that direction as well.
I love that stage spiking is a viable option now. It will encourage offstage play
Oh thank god you uploaded this, I thought I was going insane when I was failing every single easy tech at high percent.
I'm glad it's just a threshold because good players would drag matches on way to long.
You are 150? Just accept that lost stock when you lose it. This is why fighting games have block chip damage and such. Sure if you could perfect block everything that's "skillful" but if you are getting hit that much something eventually has to give.
And in the end, you still "lost" the match because you let yourself get hit in the first place. This would apply even if teching was never a mechanic in the first place.
That ideology promotes campy never get hit defensive gameplay, more mechanics to survive longer via hard tech is great, and builds more aggressive hunting of the kill, which is what Melee has, you can tech literally everything in melee
SharpEdgeSoda the fact that you had to say good player implies that you believe the act of tech actually requires skill to execute. If anything this new tech rewards bad players
@@AkiraSatou The mechanic will mainly factor in recovering at high precentage, the one place where "not getting hit" is the main focus anyway.
@@MetalB1985 That's called a disadvantage state, you know where people don't wanna be? In that disadvantage spot, any game where the more damaged you are the more exponentially you get punished, it'll become a block-defensive camp fest.
@@AkiraSatou I'm not sure I see the difference there. That renders the idea of a high percentage sort of pointless in any direction a wall or platform may be located. Now the other player is not only basically fearless, but has rage on top of that. You want untechables, because without it the other player actually becomes stronger, not weaker when you hurt them.
I like how groud meteors can't be teched. It allows more combos and made some laggy down airs worth using. Toon link, for example, had a down air that was litteraly unsafe on hit .
3:01 woah, Did Donkey Kong give Peach a smooch??
this is actually amazing for ness. All the quick and easy edgeguards on ness like counter and rosa down b have been heavily nerfed. This means that if they wanna challenge ness, they gotta commit to a risky edgeguard, and if they screw up, then they get stage spiked, and PK Rocket has super high knockback, so the untechable could happen. So ya ness benefits greatly from this and I love it.
Simply making untechables consistent and not chance makes this mechanic nice and fair.
I actually like this mechanic. The only time I think it should be removed is on Snake's C4 recovery.
Love your videos. 1 suggestion is to not only use the new training mode(well not new but actually good enough to be useable) but also use the frame by frame option to showcase some of these super quick animations
I think these are all great changes, the red tech forces the player to avoid that situation at those percents rather than just teching the wall. I think it also helps to consider that there is an option select for teching while recovering by just pressing the shield button at the same time (Which they didn't remove from the game as far as I'm aware.) which makes teching stage spikes much easier. I don't have a problem with this, because I really like option selects, but since option selects do ultimately reduce some of the skill required in a given situation, putting the skill check somewhere that isn't covered by the OS (Not getting stage spiked in the first place.) seems completely fair and this opens up more options for edge guarding. Not being able to tech spikes while standing on the ground is fine too. I think it's fair to say if you have the ability to tech those on reaction then you most likely could've just shielded instead, and why should someone be punished for landing a hit? (Especially with the easier tech window?) This also removes accidental techs in these situations (Similar to how they also removed accidental perfect shields) and opens up a few more options for characters onstage. These all seem like pretty healthy and well-informed changes.
Like other people said, it's a nice balance for how it all works. I also feel it was done to help fights go by faster.
We won't see again anything similar to the tech of Jesus :'c
¡¡El octavo tech de Jesús!!
Hunter Sam lol yeah I remember that, all those techs were crazy
Sakurai saw the clip and that's why techs were nerfed.
壁に当たる瞬間だけシールドするのかと思ってた
そうじゃないと？
あってるよ？
@@長濱ねるしか 人間の感覚的には関係ないけど、攻撃から壁までの間でも良いのは知らなかった
@@赤西光士郎 ということです
This mechanic makes more sense. Smash Ultimate was designed to have faster matches. That’s why things like less invincibility frames when you’re at a higher percent are in the game.
It's scary for sure knowing the enemy can kill you if you hug the ledge at high percents, but I also appreciate the mechanic. I've found a lot of characters with mostly upward recoveries like Fox tend to start playing tag at high percents, constantly jumping loops around the edge in hopes of keeping themselves alive for as long as possible. Now, hugging the ledge isn't completely safe anymore, and that's a relief.
That said, I'll have to get the hang of recovering more outward when I'm at kill percent.
Thanks for the clarification, I thought I was going crazy earlier as I was convinced I was teching some hits but was obviously dying anyway.
I don't think you should tech all the time, if you're still alive at high % then of course you should have some kind of disadvantage to be added to the fact that you're easy to kill.
Most of the time you're going to tech these things are going to be times where you are available to do this anyway, don't tell me you see someone at 190% + being in these situations than you see someone at like... 70 or 90.
On an added note, if a lighter fighter loses his or her ability to tech faster than a heavier character, it buffs heavyweights and other mid weight characters that don't excel in speed. After all, some high tier characters tend to always be the fast ones, while some lower tiers are heavies, so it's a good feature if it prioritizes bigger and heavier characters.
So yeah, overall good that you can tech in situations where you couldn't before while also not making a badly injured fighter able to just magically tech just like a barely damaged fighter, and if you're THAT concerned over this improvement then just... don't grind your face against the stage and don't get spiked on the ground.
If you look at the guide, which is in the options menu iirc, the segment on teching says that you won't be able to do so if the knockback is too high. So it's definitely intended.
red = untechable. footstool window is tighter, harder to pull footstool off in the air.
The weird thing is that level 9 CPUs can tech even though they have a massive porcentage...
Them lvl 9 CPU are teching everything...That's the first thing I noticed when playing against bots
Level 9 CPUs can tech the blastzone if they really want to.
They tech right next to the damn wall at 150% and they act like nothing happened.
Meanwhile if you tech a stage spike CPUs immediately punish you with a quick aerial after you tech, hitting you during the 40 cooldown frame and stage spiking you again.
@@Nyxael5845
In a way it's cool that they buffed the difficulty a little bit for the CPUs. They make better sparring partners now.
@@sludgewave4786 Not really. They're teaching you incorrect rules and tactics.
this is actually lowkey sick. It will make playing in the pit less annoying in Hyrule, and the other big stages (of course this is only for casual matches). Its a small buff to heavy characters. It will give some guranteed deaths, combos, and setups at high percent. Idk, not bad. Its different, but Id say in a good way.
Roupization going in temple and fighting in the pit was the funnest thing tho, this just makes it less fun and rewards less skillful play
lol your nuts dude. Teching isnt skillfull play, especially in the pit. The tech window is so big it takes literally no skill, its pretty mich free.
I love this!! This and meteor canceling are the best things they added to ultimate!
Loving the works you guys are putting in. Keep it up
DK gave peach an appology kiss at 3:00
This is great as it would prevent stalling from Snake's C4 under stages
That shirt is amazing, holy crap.
I think this is as good as we are gonna get! Thanks for the upload, you guys make phenomenal quality content as always.
Pretty good change. I think this will also mean that in high level play pros should know the exact percentages at which they can still tech and based on that decide their recovery.
As someone who plays Cloud and doesn't have Ultimate yet...
All I could hear after hearing he can tech anytime during Up-B (Till the percent where it becomes untechable) was Hallelujah
Honestly riding the ledge is bs in how safe it is. At least with teching not available taking that very safe option every time has the potential for high punish. Otherwise there is literally no reason not to just do it every time.
Just because we had one game with unintended glitches and mechanics doesn't mean the entire series should be that way.
The purpose of this mechanic is for Snake and Snake only so that he can't recover for a literal eternity
Quality video as always, Doods! I personally think the mechanic is going to be something I and others are upset by for a while, but I think it does a lot of good, like making stage-spikes matter more, nerfing caves of life in a non-random way, and buffing heavy characters' survivability. Using LSI like that too is a very skillful thing to mix into your gameplay, and this is undoubtedly better than the way Smash 4 handled untechables. HOWEVER, I would very much like to REQUEST testing from the community on something here (especially after I lose access to this Switch).
I need to know:
Is there ever a point where the cinematic KOs (end of a 1v1) or cinematic strong hits (PKT2, Falcon Punch, etc) can make you miss a tech? Like you try to tech within the 11 frames, but the game deciding to do the cinematic might make you miss the timing? Does it freeze the counter for time to tech too? I know this might seem like it just overlaps with the red wallsplat untechable in the video, but wall-techning spikes especially means you'll be avoiding KOs from the cinematic camera a lot and I want to know if it's possible to miss the timing or correct yourself on it when this happens.
Thanks again for the video!
Side-note: untechables on the ground don't have the larger red effect and it bugs the hell out of me
This is nothing but a good thing. Balance. Easier defence at lower percents, rewards for offence at higher percents. Sakurai is galaxy brain.
The fan service in Ultimate is amazing
I feel like this was a positive change, specifically to counter the OP recoveries some characters have in this game which is a remnant from Smash 4.
Hey BSD, I found something interesting! Up-Bs are nerfed! You can only sweetspot the ledge up to 6 times, a seventh attempt will fail and you fall to your doom. I tested it with 4 characters so seems to be universal
When I hear about Armada talking how disadvantage state in ultimate isn't harsh enough, the fact you lose tech at high % is one of those things that really makes offstage much more lethal. I think its smart design overall, rewards the player who is doing good while creating a purpose for stage spiking. If you could tech everything those kills would literally never happen and it makes stage interaction more boring.
Honestly, I fully support this change! Stage spikes and ground spikes are still techable some of the time, but now they're actually viable KO options at top-level play...~
This change is amazing
It's consistent, so that's fair. And honestly it makes sense. Bracing for an impact wouldn't do much good after a certain point realistically. It also sort of balances some of the fast light characters a bit, while giving heavies a slight advantage in these situations. Also those "can always recover" characters get a nerf, so that's nice for those who don't play such characters.
8/10, decent mechanic.
I like the change, but am a little concerned at how much it disadvantages lightweights.
Then again, it's not like heavyweights were ever top tier in earlier games... maybe it's finally their time to shine.
Oh yeah. Heavyweights are definitely shining in this game more than previous titles. The fact that every character can only air dodge once before getting hit/landing makes it easier for heavies to edgeguard.
K. ROOL'S DOWN THROW TO DOWN SMASH FOR DAAAAAAYS!!!!
@@vortex9604 True, although that's something of a double-edged sword vs projectile/sword characters too, since heavies get edgeguarded easier if they don't have some sort of crazy K Rool-esque recovery.
Boingboingsplat
Lights are faster and have a harder time teching, while heavies are slower and have an easier time teching. Seems like a fair compromise to me.
Yeah, Ganon and DDD need to step back for a bit and let people like Shiek and Diddy Kong shine.
as a bowser main stage-spiking with back air, i find this mechanic veeeeeeeeeerrryyyyyy goooooooooood
3:00 *smooch*
I like the change. Smash doesn't have an HP bar, so getting to a point where you just cannot tech anymore because your damage is too high sounds alright with me.
Good mechanic change my mind
Also. They changed the regrab mechanic in ultimate as well. If the character is flashing yellow after a set amount of time after a throw. U can regrab again. I was testing Roys up throw and managed to regrab fox on the way down. Not needing to hit him inbetween to reset the grab timer.
I like this change, it makes the gameplay faster
I actually like this. It makes it a lot more rewarding to go for risky edge guards and ground bounces at higher % because you know you're going to get the stage spike or the ground bounce combo. This could be good for certain characters who struggle to get reliable KO confirms, like Wolf.
I think that's perfectly reasonable. Makes edge guarding better and dair combos.
So in other words, it's much like how rolling won't prevent fall damage after a certain point.
Martial arts priciples in a fighting game. Who'dve thought it?
Rip Hyrule fight club :(
Hey, I actually made a tweet about this whole untechable thing a while ago
They didnt mention it, but you may have noticed that when you're unable to tech, at least on a wall, the recoil ring will always be red and blue, mostly red. This way you'll always know when or when not something was untechable.
Edit: I believe this occurs on ceilings too
If you guys ever played Ganondorf on For Glory and hit the Sandbag with his d-air or jab, you might remember how weird Sandbag look without hitstun. That’s how the knock back looks like in Ultimate
I really like this mechanic. If someone wins neutral, puts their opponent in an off stage situation where they can be knocked into the stage and lands the righr move at the right percent, they should get a stock. Also camping near a wall and relying on techs to not die is no longer a viable option
I really like it that way. Good idea to make it dependent from the percentage of damage.