I kinda doubt Old Logan had too much to do directly with anything in DS 3. Old bastart went hollow and high-fived a +15 claymore with his face. At least, that how I remember things.
Seath manages to fuck over every living thing who wants to be nerdy. I mean, a kind old man in pursuit of KNALEGE a king who wants the best for his family, and Aldia, (I don't know if this was covered before but I believe he is the better incarnation of seathe) a duke who wanted peice. well seathe is a butterfree winged piece of shite
Cool theory tho. But I think the tundra environment is caused by Sulyvahn. Cuz he is born in the icy world of Ariandel and he is also a master ice sorcerer. As you can see the floor of Sulyvahn's arena is coated by white frost
@@connormac4401 no, sulyvahn is indeed a powerful sorcerer, but not flooding-the-entire-valley-with-snow powerful. Firstly, its called the “boreal valley”, and boreal means northern. All around we see snowcapped mountains, this is a very cold world. Its snowy because its in the far north and very elevated. Second, remember that this is a remodeled and opened up Anor Londo, once home of the gods. During Gwyn’s reign, it was eternally bright and beautiful, as he basically WAS the Sun, and he is even referred to as the sun, see “the Sun’s Firstborn” referring to the Nameless King. In Ds1, the sun we see setting on Anor Londo is an illusion, maintained by powers set up by Gwyndolin, and destroying the illusory Gwynevere reveals the city is drowned in eternal night. So, given the elevation, the now lacking illusory magic, with the darkmoon taking the sun’s place, no light to offer warmth, Anor Londo has gone cold, and with it the city of Irithyll and its Boreal Valley. One last note also to further cement Anor Londo being far in the north, is the Northern Undead Asylum from Ds1, where the undead were corralled “far to the north”. Lordran isn’t far from there, just a short giant crow ride. So i think youre both wrong, its merely its being far in the north and the lack of sunlight, ie simple geography. No magic.
So one thought, if Yhorm knew the people who called him Lord weren't sincere, maybe he WANTED them to burn. Or rather, "putting the profane flame to rest" had nothing to do with the flame itself, but those who were using it, maybe the same people who called him Lord?
Back to Pontiff: If you go to High Wall, you'll notice a statue of the Pontiff being circled by a winged knight. If you look closely, you can see that he is holding the Profaned Greatsword. So when he went to allegedly tutor Prince Lothric, he had already been to the Profaned Capital. He may be the one who told Yhorm to like the flame, which as you said burned the Capital to the ground (also maybe consequently causing Yhorm to go hollow?) This could be where all of the similarities between the Grand Archives and the Profaned Capital come from. From the gargoyles to a sorcerer with Logan's scroll (the Crystal Sage being a disciple of Logan links the two). Also surprised no one mentioned the fact that the Handaids in the Profaned Capitol look very similar to the jailers in the Fungeon. Love the vids man!
You never know how much you’ll appreciate Ashen Jake and his sometimes-goofy theories until the lore community on UA-cam becomes overrun with dude’s writing fan fiction pretending to be lore detectives. It really makes you respect how this guy put so much time into collecting and connecting information without feeling the need to present it as anything other than theory-crafting for fun
Something I found interesting sometime ago but was told by friends was grasping at straws was how the Sage's Coal enables Crystal, Blessed, and Deep gem infusions. I mostly got invested in figuring out why Blessed shared coal with the Deep and argued the Angels and the Deep had a connection. Again, I was told I was grasping, but then the Ringed City released and I found vindication in the reveal of the Angels in the dreg heap. Something I began to observer though, I still need to look into Giant's Coal, is that each Coal is very indicative of a connection between various forces or influences (Sage Coal points to a connection between crystal, blessed and Deep. If we believe the connection of Sullyvahn to the Scholars this checks out). The Profaned Coal implies a relationship between the Dark, Blood, and Hollows. Let's dig into what these possible connections could imply. The Blood gem references how they are slurped by the slaves of Irithyll but I would argue this is a misapplication of the gems. Bleeding weapons I tend to associate more directly with Carthus as, I believe all weapons with Carthus in the name have bleeding damage, not to mention there is Carthus Rouge, and though it has nothing to do with bleeding its name indicates their fondness for blood: Carthus Bloodring. Some lore hunters have speculated that Yhorm is the decedent of Wolnir and the Profane Coal's ability to let us make use of bleeding might be a step to making that connection. Next we have dark, if we are to take the Carthus connection as valid and Wolnir's place in that connection this pretty much speaks for itself. Lastly, the coal allows access to use of hollow gem's, a staple of Londer but why is it there. I agree that the women who defiled the flame were in fact connected to Londer rather than Izalyth at all. The Chaos flame has died while the Profaned flame is everlasting. Another thing to note is that the flame burned all the humans but in that description would we consider a hollow/undead human. If the argument that hollows/undead were exempt from being burned by the profaned linking it would explain why the jailer's continued to exist on through Yhorms linking and long enough to come into the service of Sullyvahn. We also know that some of the Jailers become Monstrosities of Sin which are identified as Abyss Creatures rather than demons (What is up with the Abyss and hands?) This doesn't give us an flawless connection to the Sable Church but if you take a leap with me, we could argue that perhaps Elfreide's failed attempt to usurp the flame in her day is what caused this flame to become profaned in the first place creating a problem Yhorm would have to later resolve. Again, that is a wild leaping speculation but the more I think about it the more I kind of wonder... Could she be connected to Yhorm and the profaned capital? Could she be who he lost? We know she wields black pyromancies like those of the Carthus's Grave Wardens (Let's assume we accept Carthus has some connection to Yhorm and the Profaned Capital). Her efforts to usurp the flame DID result in her turning to ash whether the rest of this is true or not. This could have caused the initial defilement and Yhorm to forsake his shield. We know that the Sable Church will call anyone lord if they think it will get them where they want to go, one could call that insincere (insincerity referenced in his cinders), and Londor does not have a trustworthy reputation. Elfreide would not return to the world until the Lords of Cinder fail their task. Whether she knew of Yhorms new elevated status as one of those Lords of Cinder or not she could have ended up in the painting forlorn for her failure or that someone she cares about is now emblematic of everything she is against. Now she has a giant man that she will do anything to keep away from flame and lonely Yhorm sits on his thrown. A lot of that was last paragraph was coming to me while I was typing it so again it isn't an air tight theory. But I would argue that taking a look at the coals and the gems they associate to opens up new avenues for theories. Part two, please! And a fine Dark Soul to you.
Please don't stop making these lore videos, you're my favorite person who does these. Every-time I watch one of your lore videos a concept I haven't thought of is brought to light! Much love man, keep up the good work!
I think the "certain oracle" whom the women who triggered the Profaned Flame are said to be relatives of is actually Pontiff Sulyvahn. Is robe is basically the same as the "court sorcerer's robe", and these guys must have some point worked under him, back when he was in the Profaned Capital.
love all your videos, ive been an avid souls player from the start, played all the games, but without really knowing why or what, just mindlessly dying and killing, but your videos have brought to life and depth of these games, till now ive only uncovered or understood the bare min of the story, your videos are friggin awesome, keep it up man!!
When Gwyn, a Lord with the soul of Light, Linked the First Flame, a massive fire spreads, burning the Silver Knights that followed him; Charring them black. When you, in Dark Souls, link the first flame very little light or flame is emitted, even with the immense amount of strength you've absorbed. Perhaps because your nature as a human imbues you with a soul that converts absorbed souls toward Dark, or the Abyss. It could be that Yhorm or other Giants are more closely linked to Chaos, and as such, a Giant linking the first flame led to an Age of Chaos for the nearby area, rather than an age of Fire or Dark. The Giants, Gargoyles, and Demons are all linked in some ways. However, you could also argue that Giants are more closely linked to Anor Londo. (An area filled with Lords, and Light.) I wonder if there's any significance in the Deacons of the Deep taking over Anor Londo. Maybe a connection to Chaos or even Dark has always followed Anor Londo, without Gwyn knowing. None of this is definitive or even based on much, but it might spark something in you, and help you find more information.
Has anyone ever thought that maybe the text on the profaned greatsword saying "a burning ambition took root within him" could mean it corrupted him? As it is already known it swallows the hearts of those who come into contact with it, perhaps those words are simply a clever metaphor. This could also be tied into the first DLC items saying he was born in the painting but had not yet experienced loss. Perhaps his loss was tragically his own will when he discovered the capital and the flame. Just throwing some ideas out there for part 2 lol. Or perhaps a detailed video of sully
I automatically assumed that he was corrupted on contact. I mean it's called the friggin' Profaned Flame in a game about everything that can go wrong going wrong.
I always thought about it but. Whenever Sulivanh was corrupted and its actually because of the profaned flame that he became so violent and obsessed with replacing the first flame with it or maybe he was always as manipulative and sadistic and the flame was just a motive to him...we'll never know.
I don't fully agree with you, I must admit. Some points are interesting and, the way you link everything back to the manipulative Kaathe is pretty awesome. I also really love the scenery you managed to capture. Even in ruins, the Profaned Capital looks stunning. :) Thanks for the video~
If I may suggest, you should keep the item description on the screen longer, it's kinda better for the watcher to follow your voice with it. Really great videos mate, really enjoy them. Keep the work going
With Yhorm I think it was the similar to what happens to the player character who is convinced to link the fire -- "Hmm this Yhorm fellow is pretty stout, bet he could do to link the fire. I hear he really wants to get rid of the Profaned Flame. (louder) Hey Yhorm, you know that thing you want a lot? (lying through their teeth) It will happen automatically if you go link the fire. Sounds good right?"
I have a theory that Yhorm is the descendant of Wolnir. I forget which item says it, but he is described as the descendant of a conqueror, but asked by those conquered to lead them. Wolnir is described as a mighty warrior who was overcome by fear when the darkness enveloped him. It is said he prayed to the gods, but we're left wondering what the response to his prayer was. I think his prayer was answered by someone who wanted to take advantage of his power, perhaps Quaathe. I think the Profaned Capital is the evil civilization that arose from Wolnir's dark prayer. Yhorm, tragically, seems to have been a good and selfless ruler, but it seems his people mocked him and took him for granted, perhaps only keeping him around because he was useful in battle, perhaps they needed him to serve as a link to Wolnir's power. It seems that at some point yet another party convinced Yhorm to link the First Flame, and it is unclear if his motivation was to destroy the Profaned Flame. He may have been tricked into thinking it would save his people, but I think it's possible he finally realized what he was protecting and destroyed the Profaned Capital to cleanse its sins. I also wonder if it's significant that Karla is imprisoned in the Irithyll Dungeon, while Siegward is trapped in the Profaned Capital. I kind of think Karla's path, wherever it started, took her from the P.C. to Irithyll, where she was not wanted. Siegward, wherever the hell Catarina is, seems to have know Yhorm somehow, and his journey to end his friend's suffering mostly bypasses Irithyll and the dungeon, but is halted in the P.C.... I have a strong feeling the DLC will return here in some way.
I can't believe I went right through Wolnir without realizing he was a giant... I guess his having a face threw me off since giant's used to not have faces. But now they do. Apparently.
Rodrigo Lanas You do realize it's stated that when Wolnir prayed to the gods, which is stated to be the first time he ever prayed, the gods melted all the gold from the dead clerics to make the 3 golden bracelets that protect him from the abyss and Wolnir's Holy Sword. That's why he dies when you break the bracelets, those are the only things keeping him alive. And that's why his sword has WotG. It was literally crafted by them to keep Wolnir alive.
may be the profaned flame a knock-off first flame created by aldia and the bearer of the curse at the end of ds2? to broke the cicle of light and dark they mixed the two things togheter and created the profaned flame...that will be discovered by Sulyhvan...based on his statue in the high wall of Lothric, the dancer, vordt and the outrider knights and the profaned gargoyles i guess that he is at 99.9% the first of the scholars...he discovered both big hat logan scrolls (and probably was the mentor of the two crystal sages), and the profaned flame, and manipulated prince lothric to not link the first flame...i don't think kaathe is involved, probably he wants to achieve pure darkness
I think you are right about the profaned flame being a sort of copy of the first flame. I think that the Sable Church of Londor created the profaned flame as a means to cast off the need of the first flame. Here are my theories on the matter (mostly speculation). I think that the Profaned flame ushered in its own age of humanity. One opposed to the age brought on by the first flame. I believe the two ages waged war against each other and the humans of the profaned flame had Yhorm on their side. He fought as a vanguard and was eventually made their lord due to his strength. Over time Yhorm was getting more and more disgusted with his human subjects as it seemed that they hated him but was too cowardly to actually do anything to him. He even gave them a Storm Ruler in what seemed like a taunt to try to get them to attack him. But it seems that no one tried, even with the huge population that we see in the corpse piles in the profaned capital, no one had the courage to fight him. I believe Yhorm believed in warrior ethics (considering Seigward's ethics were about honor and valor it would make sense as to why they were friends.) and saw the humans from the age of the profaned flame as unworthy and decided to link the first flame in order to end the age of the profaned flame. I believe he willed the fire from the sky that burnt only the humans. He then swore to prevent the profaned flame from being used and had Seigward to promise to kill him if he failed his duty. Once Pontiff Sullivan discovered the profane flame and Yhorm did not stop him from wielding its power Seigward returned to honor his promise
I know I'm really late to the party and not sure if anyone has already talked about this, but my personal theory is that the profaned flame, or at least the fire pit, is actually the lord vessel from dark souls 1. Looks visually similar and houses souls of chaos (choas bed), the fragments of gwyn, and darkness/the abyss with fragmebt from the four kings and potentially gravelord nito. It's not unreasonable to suspect that the mixing of these souls that lit the lord vessel has corrupted it, and we already know thay the lord vessel devours/burns souls. Makes sense to me, but I don't really have any definitive proof.
I always wondered why there were Profaned Gargoyles in Lothric Castle. Also something to mention, there's a lot of broken stone just before the gate that the 3 knights are defending that then lead onto the chambers of Prince Lothric. Perhaps that stone is from the gargoyles and if so why?
First of all great vids my speculation whcih I had as soon as I saw the profaned capital that this the the place of the Lords Vessel from dark souls 1 and I believe that the profaned flame is the flame that Gwyn created because profaned means a sin or sacrilege and from DS2 dlc Gwen flame was called the first sin. the profaned capital is underground beneath Anor Londo same location as lord vessel in DS1 even the walk way to the flame that the witchs in white are prying for is almost exact as DS1 on a side note the grand archive has two statues one of a serpent the other of a tree creature which I believe is Aldia the person who the souls game actually called the scholar in DS2 dlc again this is all speculation sorry for long post
What I've always wanted to dig into is the procession of 'upgrade' archetypes. In Dark Souls 'dark' weapons were called occult weapons but became occult through the divine upgrade path. With how much draws from Dark Souls 1 in terms of overall lore familiarity I can't help but think that somewhere an answer for our questions in DaSIII exists in DaSI. (But not DaSII as Memezaki has a superiority complex to B-team)
I believe its worth noting that Alsanna, the silent oracle, is a reincarnation of the "'fears'' of Manus whom you meet in Dark souls 2. The ivory king who she served brought with him knights to fight off the spawns of chaos much like Lord Gwyn did before him. I don't know how this ties in with this but its what i've learned
Since the Profaned Coal is essentially Dark Chaos (Chaos from this video and the Abyss from Andres description) I wonder if the Profaned Flame might have a link to the Dark Pyromaniacs of Carthus and Wolnir
This sounds like something that might definitely be expanded on in future DLC, since it really seems like a huge part of the lore. Assuming this game gets three expansions like DS2 did, my guesses are that they'll involve the Profaned Flame (and/or possibly Chaos and the old witch), the Lothric royal family (due to its unmistakable importance in the story and the obvious hints at mysterious but potentially major characters like Gertrude and Ocelotte), and the Abyss (since this game seems to want to cover most of the same story beats as the first one, and because Manus's absence in this game seems pretty suspicious).
Awesome vid. I don’t think Kaathe would ever manipulate Yhorm into LINKING the fire - either Kaathe asked him to take the flame and he just linked it, or it was Frampt/gods that manipulated him.
Funny thing : when I played through the game, I also thought the profaned flame came out of some trick, but I thought it was from Frampt to make Yhorm link the fire. I thought this when I read the Eleonora description, because I thought the oracle could be interpreted as frampt (who tells people to link the fire to fix their problems) especially considering that the blades of the Eleonora look like wings, which could be linked to frampt, as seems to have tried to make people think he was an angel in ds3
Notice that all of the Lords of Cinder did no relink the flame due to DARKNESS. Aldrich: The Deep. Abysswatchers: The Abyss Yhorm: The profane flame This could mean that the plot in Dark Souls 3 is controlled by none other than Kaathe. Another evidence: The pilgrims are suddenly coming NOW. And there are millions of them everywhere. And Yuria is super exited to make you a lord... hmmm... how fishy.
anyone know what kind of weapon this flame-staff-thing is? Looks pretty cool. But I never saw that before. Or is that the weapon from one of those pyromancers in Irythil?
AND, I also think that the Sage's hat does resemble something about Velka, because these Sages loved Logan, and I don't recall his hat having a crow look on his mask, but I may be wrong, so maybe they served Velka as well, and this would also tie Kaathe to the Archives, and supporting my theory of Kaathe being Lothric's mentor. But Dark Souls is all about speculation and theories. So at the end of the day, anyone can believe what they want.
Awesome video! One thing though, I, personally, don't think that the chaos flame and the profaned flame are the same. The profaned flame may be an offshoot, but it's not the actual chaos flame. If it was, the demons wouldn't be dying off.
I always thought what it meant wasn’t literally do something to the profaned flame by put it to rest I thought it meant kill everyone corrupted by it since the first flame when rekindled usually renews souls of humans. It would potentially be unable to with those corrupted and instead burned them
The profaned flame is showing that the age of fire itself is falling to dark. Linking the fire is no longer working. The witches fused a piece of the flame somehow with the abyss that's why it doesn't go out. It's at balance with fire consuming the abyss in equilibrium. However it is still a tainted flame and like the flame of chaos it mutates and/or changes those touched by it. When yhorm linked the flame the profaned flame consumed the capital because it is still tied to the first flame. It can't be destroyed by linking it. My opinion and theory
I think the profaned capital might just be Londor/New Londo. Mainly because the profaned capital/flame just means the nonreligious flame. The human/abyssal one. That's what New Londo is in relation to Anor Londo.
My chain of thought is pointing towards, Yhorm being fooled into linking the fire to lead him away, and Pontiff coming to the capitol to use the Profaned Flame to incinerate the people...I mean he did imbue the flame into the Fire Witch weapon so it would not be too far fetched to think he was also responsible for turning the people who hide behind the Giant into charcoal..
Idk, smith bro says he sees the Abyss in the profaned coal; implying the profaned flame itself is a flamey manifestation of the abyss/dark? It would make sense seeing the sisters ask the Lord of Hollows to 'usurp' the flame implying that a new flame must be put forth, yes?
I'd imagine that the profaned flame is a precursor to the usurpation of fire. By combining Yhorm's linking of the first flame with the creation and explosion of the profaned flame (in what I feel is a pretty clear parallel to the chaos flame), it would actually allow for that ending in DSIII. Granted this is pure speculation, but it at least gives a 'why' for the sable church's involvement. As an aside, could the profaned flame curse also be the same curse that affected Lothric both physically, as in his handicap, and emotionally, as in affecting his decision to not link the flame.
was watching a video on the profaned capitol and i noticed something. Its physical relation to anor londo. and that huge crack in the side of the mountain wall that shows the light... New Londo became the Profaned Capitol. Im sure of it. Has anyone else noticed this... i have watched a lot of videos and havnt heard anyone point this out... maybe its so obvious no one needed to. If not id be pretty stoked to dig up this find on my own.
Having played Dark Souls 1 immediately before 3, I noticed the striking similarity between the cities right away. Not enough of a lore buff to say it's a sure thing and not just parallels.
@@lochies5407 most likely, considering that's where the dark wraiths are from and likely were worshipped, but a pilgrimage wouldn't be that difficult from londor to lothric then
While you may claim this video to be everywhere, it's still immensely within depth. I enjoy watching these because it's not just the first game that you use to prove your point, it's the whole series. Well, not two, but all the lore you could need in that game was said in the first five minutes, but nevertheless, I greatly enjoy this channel. I hope to continue watching your videos for as long as you continue. Simply as a question, what ending did you feel to be the best in three? Despite the darkness of it, I like the usurpation because you seemingly broke the cycle, but I was just curious
Thank you for the kind words! =) Hmm, I may just be a big Velka fan boy, but since she has a place in the Sable Church, I gotta go with the Lord of Hollows ending!
I love your theories man . I WOULD LOVE if did something about the drakeblood Knights and the connection between ds2 and ds3 and why is that drakeblood knight armor after you defeat ocelot what's the connection there ?
The gargoyles in the grand archives are probably something pontif sulyvahn brought with him. Since we do have a statue with him and his profaned greatsword on there, it likely happened after he discovered the profaned flame. I don't think there is something more to it. Though the whip being on the grand archives is curious on itself.
As for the manipulator, I will say "Karla". She said she's born from the Abyss, and most importantly she felt really guilty. I just start playing DS2 SOTFS, and I think Profane Capital is a huge reference of DS2..I might have to get through that game to brainstorm some ideas.
And one final speculation! Could the thing Logan was looking for be Karla? The spell said something that mirrored the dark, we see her imprisoned very near the profaned capital, and we can think she had a connection the Church of Londor. In my opinion she has no connection to the church, and manipulated Yhorm to linking the fire, knowing what will happen when he links that fire, and this could've allowed her to do something with the Abyss. It could explain why the Profaned coal has the Abyss in it. Heaps more could be said on this theory, but one must re thing. Why is ladder gut from Dark Souls 2 in the Capital? So I put some interesting theories on this video. Looking forward to what you think!
The profaned flame is not the flamr of chaos we know because in the later dlc there is the demon prince to prove it. I always loved the profaned flame because its a new flame introduced in ds3 which defies any categorization of flames we've seen so far
Regarding Karla, all I can say at this point is that she's most likely a fragment of Manus. Why she was imprisoned (contrary to all other fragments, who assumed a more active role in their respective country) or what her intentions are is beyond me. Her dialogue, her clothes' item description and her ashes don't give away too much to speculate on. If I had to guess, I'd say she's not overly interested in any major events. If anything, she seems to have taken a liking to the Ashen One (as suggested by her dialogue when she greets us or after we give the Firekeeper eyes). However, what we do get from her is a potential connection between Dark Pyromancy, Dark Sorceries and Dark Miracles as she teaches us all of them. They all seem to use Humanity as basis.
what if the profane flame and first fire are the same? the profane capital does kinda resemble the kiln from dark souls 1 that pyromancy said the profane flame is below the capital and the first flame sparked beneath the ground.
Man, i also was very confused when i saw this! Here is a statue with the head of a primordial serpent... we all saw this very early. But! There is no doubt for me that this is also a hollow body. And! To put the confusion to the extreme... it also is a body, with the winged marks of the various holy creatures! True words my friend....... WTF!?!
Here's an idea which will likely be refuted on principal, but shot in the dark here: When you make your way into the Profaned Capital's first bonfire, keeping in mind we are finding nods to DS2 even though most pple don't consider it cannon. Seeing as how you find the corpse of a certain ladder-smith spread out on the ground, and given the shape of that ruined tower made me think, what if Heide's Tower of Flame somehow collapsed & fell underground through some sort of earthquake/sinkhole which could have let whatever "flame" contained within loose or merely corrupted into what we'd then know in DS3 as the Profaned Flame? Hmmmmmmmm?
Just a quick but note worthy tid bit: I'm pretty sure that in one of the dev. Interviews, they stated that, although they look human, they are in fact Not human. I'm not trying to shoot down you're theories or anything, I actually find them very interesting, but I thout I'd mention this as it doesn't quite fit with manus, who we know was once human, as being father to the daughters of chaos, who we know are not human. Anyways, do keep up with the great work, I thoroughly enjoy you're videos
He created the profaned flame in attempt to "copy" the first flame, which is the source of souls as we know from the DS1 Intro. The flame is the source of souls and souls are "all what prevents you from going hollow" (DS2 Intro). If you follow the path to collect the lord souls but don't relink the first flame, an age of dark will come but you will go hollow at some point (like vendrik in DS2). Which at some point will trigger another undead to follow the path up until he or she murders you and then links the flame. The re-linking of the flame to humanity as it's fuel / cinder is therefore inevitable if the dark lord that gwyn feared goes hollow. That's why the profaned flame was created, to prevent that from happening. But it turns out, yhorm the giant still hollowed anyways. It is clear at this point that you cannot remake the first flame. The witch of izalith failed and so did yhorm. The only way to start the age of dark is to usurp the original first flame.
I personally think the Profaned Capital is the capital of Carthus. If you give the Carthus Pyromancy Tome to Cornyx and talk to him afterwards, he says that it is akin to the Chaotic pyromancy found in Izalith. It seems this Profaned Flame was the magnum opus of Wolnir during his reign, creating an incredibly powerful flame that shined like a beacon, a testament to the indomitable kingdom of Carthus. Though as powerful as Wolnir and his kingdom may be, he certainly wasn't wise, and so he was unaware of the ruin his dabbling in the forbbiden arts would bring upon his kingdom. Even more foolish was Wolnir when he took on pyromancy of the Dark, his journey for even more power leading him to be imprisoned inside a skull. As for the the woman who tended to the Profaned Flame, I wouldn't exactly be surprised if they were fragments of Manus as it seems only those of the Dark can calm the chaotic flame. With that being said, a bit strange we find Karla, aye? We know Sulyvahn feared opposition, but surely Karla provided none given the fact that Sulyvahn is very much in touch with the Dark. No, she was not locked away because of her capability to cast Dark spells and pyromancies, but because she was the only other person capable of suppressing the Profaned Flame. As I said, Carthus was a force to be reckoned with, so why engage the enemy if you can just lock away their savior and have the flame kill them off? I feel like Sulyvahn encouraged Yhorm to link the flame, so as to remove the most prominent threat. He tricked him into thinking it would spare his people, but really it just spared Sulyvahn a pain in the neck.
first time i plaayed DS3 i was cussing out the Pontiff hoping he would rot in the abyss. however i really love his story! he seems really important and might even be a character with more meaning to the story than we. believe
may if i ask whats up with this gaping dragon things in dark souls 3, This Aliens creaturs in the sewerage or the thing on the Bridge with his gaping stomach, you also find them by the aldrich covernant. Sry for my english
Isn't Profaned Flame pyromancy the same kind of pyromancy as Flame Swathe, the one Straid of Olaphis teaches you? Could the Profaned Capitol be linked with ancient Olaphis or IS ancient Olaphis?
Darn. I literally just thought of some of the points you make in this video and was going to offer some insight on the 'Did Velka and Her Sisters Found the Sable Church of Londor?' video. Turns out I'm mostly late. That being said, here are some random thoughts from some nobody who doesn't lore much : As you mentioned, it makes more sense for the founders to be descendants of Manus rather than of the witch of Izalith (it's not impossible for them to be both tho), but the pattern as set in DS2 was that all of them carried the syllable -na. Nashandra, Alsanna, Elana, Nadalia... I find it hard to believe that Miyazaki (and/or whoever wrote DS3) wouldn't catch on that when it came to Karla. It makes so much sense for her to be another fragment of Manus, so why is there no -na ? Nani ? Well, there is no -n anymore, but an -a sound remain. Could that imply that the relationship with Manus is more distant than that of DS2's spawn of the abyss ? As in... she isn't directly a shard of Manus but is a descendant of a shard of Manus (most likely Alsanna) ? That idea is somewhat runs counter-intuitive to the "daughter" item description. when Karla mentionned she wa a child of the abyss, everyone immediately assumed she was another shard of Manus, the father of the abyss, thus making her a "daughter" of the abyss, in extenso making all the DS2 fragments daughters all the same. In that regard, it could light some sense into the sudden emphasis of the word "daughter", especially in the context of an item related to the dark. Assuming "daughters" to be in relation to one of DS2's shards definitely isn't as clear. You also mention how these women are "relative to a certain oracle", thus not directly implying a parental link. Plus the court sorcerer set once again muddying the water. But that might be all it is : confusion thrown in the mix to throw people off. What is less believable is how Yuria and Karla don't aknowledge each other in Firelink Shrine... For the latter, it could be that more NPC interaction would be added to the DLCs, after all most of the character going to Firelink Shrine, be it in DS1 or DS3, have an end to their narrative... except, Karla. (And Cornyx, as far as I can tell.) Either way, the link between Londor and the shards of Manus from DS2 are here. The methods are also similar, as both the Na-ladies and the Sable Church went looking for one worthy of the flame, a true lord. Except the Sable Church decided to actively create a society entirely dedicated to that cause rather than merely finding a lord to attach themselves to. All of this begs many questions tho. Such as : how is Yhrom connected to Londor, if at all ? Was Yhorm just some useful potential lord the sisters used as an attempt or an experiment ? It's also possible that Yhorm is the descendant of Wolnir, Wolnir being an ancient ruler to a sand kingdom. Well, in "Sable church of Londor" is the word "sable", which is also the french word for "sand". Purely coincidental, I'm sure. Who is Karla ? Is she really like Yuria ? We have some inkling as to why she was imprisoned, she was considered a heretic, possibly by the jailers in teh dungeon who are described as missing the old days of the profane capital. From that we could assume she directly was involved in what happen there, but she seems so intent of informing you of her nature rather than letting you in the dark, being in that regard very different to Yuria who remains ever vague until she is certain you are the one she wants. Could Karla have been the one to Yhorm as Yuria is the one for you, but then regretted the outcome of her action ? Does Alva has a place in this ? Why did Eleonora died (and was turned into an axe) ? Given Eleonora is a boss item due to its upgrade path thus at one point was someone, that the description of the item refers to a group she was part of thus related to Alsanna due to the circumstances and the proeminent -a sound in her name making her potentially a sister to Yuria and Karla, what happened to her ? Lilianne and Yuria left the Profaned Capital, Karla was imprisoned by survivors of the capital due to her abyssal nature, and Eleonora... died. Or maybe she is "the certain oracle", but... erf... The axe could also tell a story in & out of itself, it's hard to take of it only one thing to be sure of. The axe's special power is both in visual and actual effect very reminiscent of miracles (there's also warth of the god in that same building, altho it's somewhat less noteworthy), light rather than dark whereas all of her known would-be sisters are definitely more versed in the dark arts, but the hollow gem gained from trading it with the crow hints at Eleonora's true nature. The axe is also found inside the sin creatures. Symbolically, their heads are Manus' hand, that could mean they carry out Manus' will to squash the light, involving killing one of his descendant who, by associating with the usual way of the gods and their miracles, is heresy to Manus' dark nature. Sin is very much a word used in relation to the flame, so it's hard to think that the name of the creatures is not related to that, but looking at it from the angle that Eleonora's betrayal to her own nature is heresy, we could call it a sin. I know it's a huge stretch but hey ! Speculations ! Another tenuous element linking the profaned capital to Londor is the Pale shade. The pale shades appear to all be women, as they are called "harlots" and wear more feminine clothes. The color of their set somewhat matches that of the Jailers found in the profaned Capital, and their mask is especially very similar. Not much to go by. Jayzus. I wrote a lot.
In my opinion, Kaathe is actually the close mentor the of Prince Lothric, because we know he didn't like the linking the of the fire, we know he was good at manipulating people, and we know that something caused Lothric to not want to link the fire. This would certainly help Kaathe and his Church. And if we didn't already know that Lorians sword was of fire from killing a Demon Prince, we could've also argued that his sword was scared r he'd by the profaned flame. Just a thought
Is there credibility that Frampt could have convinced Yorm/Yorm’s followers that linking the flame would put out the profaned flame? He was always after keeping the age of fire going and that would have kept he circle going. He would have known that it could not put out the flame but would kindle the fire.
I was thinking that the profaned flame was a manipulation of the dark soul, just as the chaos flame was a manipulation of the life soul. We often think the dark is the opposite of the flame but the furtive Pygmy was also an ember birthed from the flame in DS1 opening cinematic. I don't believe it to be the chaos flame because the chaos flame, from what I've seen, is dead or dying along with all the demons that clung to it. However what really stuck out to me is how the flame is undying, which is what all of dark souls lords were trying to create, and very few things in these games are immortal, the dragons, the serpents, and hollows. Now hollows may not be the prettiest or nicest form of immortality but it still is immortality none the less which makes me see a connection with this flame, as well as its ember being able to make weapons dark or hollow, so that's just my little theory on what the profaned flame is
That would also go along with what they are being based on. Life soul creates life so when it went astray it created corrupt demon life. The profaned flame is created from dark so its corruption destroys anything and everything with enough time (destroys the souls of the user)
But you need to differentiate between dark and hollow. The dark in a human is his humanity and only when he loses this dark does he go hollow. Gwyn also hollowed, but he never had a fragment of the dark soul. So I don't see a connection to hollows, which is a theme of the new kaathe and londor, but only one to the abyss and manus, possibly the deep if it really is the abyss.
After Playing the DLC Alfreide soul is reference and a twisted soul , just like The 3 sisters fro DSII , so they must be fragments os the manus or whatever his name was .
Don't forget the handmaiden knives. The church of londor may be involved but I think the maidens referenced are the ones around the profaned flame cauldron. They would be descendants of Alsanna I believe. The abyss is in it because like sin being poisoned she had slowly corrupted the chaos with us subduing it in dark souls two enough for the profaned capital to form with chaos contained. Karla I think is a direct descendent of Alsanna. So summary. Alsanna had descendents in Karla and the handmaidens of the profaned capital. With the chaos subdued and slowly corrupted by the abyss is became somewhat controllable and Karla may have been the head of the sorcery school of the profaned capital. From her dialogue she very much resists you imposing the dark miracles on her but is very comfortable with the dark pyromancies. She may have been contacted by the sable church but been against their goal like Alsanna leading to everything.
She would have been more concerned with containing the profaned flame. This interaction and destruction of the capital also seeded the world creating the pilgrim butterflies. They obviously are chaotic flame in nature but come from hollows and if you notice they have bloat heads like oolicile in one. Their inverted rib cage is also very reminiscent of the beasts of Sullivan and man centipedes all likely influenced by the profaned flame and deep/abyss.
RIP Part two-three :'(
I kinda doubt Old Logan had too much to do directly with anything in DS 3. Old bastart went hollow and high-fived a +15 claymore with his face.
At least, that how I remember things.
billaros1000
Yeah, I just kinda blanked on going insane=going hollow.
Seath manages to fuck over every living thing who wants to be nerdy. I mean, a kind old man in pursuit of KNALEGE a king who wants the best for his family, and Aldia, (I don't know if this was covered before but I believe he is the better incarnation of seathe) a duke who wanted peice. well seathe is a butterfree winged piece of shite
Bro claymore for life!
Logans whole story plot was he wanted to become a dragon
@@lifeward21 Definitely not, he wanted to master sorcery on the level of Seath or greater.
The fact that Seath was a dragon wasn't important.
I think the profaned flame has consumed all of the heat surrounding it, creating the icy tundra that became Irithyll.
Grackleflint Oh damn that's cool to think about, never thought of that.
Cool theory tho. But I think the tundra environment is caused by Sulyvahn. Cuz he is born in the icy world of Ariandel and he is also a master ice sorcerer. As you can see the floor of Sulyvahn's arena is coated by white frost
@@connormac4401 no, sulyvahn is indeed a powerful sorcerer, but not flooding-the-entire-valley-with-snow powerful.
Firstly, its called the “boreal valley”, and boreal means northern. All around we see snowcapped mountains, this is a very cold world. Its snowy because its in the far north and very elevated.
Second, remember that this is a remodeled and opened up Anor Londo, once home of the gods. During Gwyn’s reign, it was eternally bright and beautiful, as he basically WAS the Sun, and he is even referred to as the sun, see “the Sun’s Firstborn” referring to the Nameless King.
In Ds1, the sun we see setting on Anor Londo is an illusion, maintained by powers set up by Gwyndolin, and destroying the illusory Gwynevere reveals the city is drowned in eternal night.
So, given the elevation, the now lacking illusory magic, with the darkmoon taking the sun’s place, no light to offer warmth, Anor Londo has gone cold, and with it the city of Irithyll and its Boreal Valley.
One last note also to further cement Anor Londo being far in the north, is the Northern Undead Asylum from Ds1, where the undead were corralled “far to the north”. Lordran isn’t far from there, just a short giant crow ride.
So i think youre both wrong, its merely its being far in the north and the lack of sunlight, ie simple geography. No magic.
Velka is all the characters!!!
DUDE! The editing and content only gets better! This is awesome!
Thanks man! =D
So one thought, if Yhorm knew the people who called him Lord weren't sincere, maybe he WANTED them to burn. Or rather, "putting the profane flame to rest" had nothing to do with the flame itself, but those who were using it, maybe the same people who called him Lord?
Back to Pontiff: If you go to High Wall, you'll notice a statue of the Pontiff being circled by a winged knight. If you look closely, you can see that he is holding the Profaned Greatsword. So when he went to allegedly tutor Prince Lothric, he had already been to the Profaned Capital. He may be the one who told Yhorm to like the flame, which as you said burned the Capital to the ground (also maybe consequently causing Yhorm to go hollow?) This could be where all of the similarities between the Grand Archives and the Profaned Capital come from. From the gargoyles to a sorcerer with Logan's scroll (the Crystal Sage being a disciple of Logan links the two). Also surprised no one mentioned the fact that the Handaids in the Profaned Capitol look very similar to the jailers in the Fungeon. Love the vids man!
You never know how much you’ll appreciate Ashen Jake and his sometimes-goofy theories until the lore community on UA-cam becomes overrun with dude’s writing fan fiction pretending to be lore detectives. It really makes you respect how this guy put so much time into collecting and connecting information without feeling the need to present it as anything other than theory-crafting for fun
Something I found interesting sometime ago but was told by friends was grasping at straws was how the Sage's Coal enables Crystal, Blessed, and Deep gem infusions. I mostly got invested in figuring out why Blessed shared coal with the Deep and argued the Angels and the Deep had a connection. Again, I was told I was grasping, but then the Ringed City released and I found vindication in the reveal of the Angels in the dreg heap. Something I began to observer though, I still need to look into Giant's Coal, is that each Coal is very indicative of a connection between various forces or influences (Sage Coal points to a connection between crystal, blessed and Deep. If we believe the connection of Sullyvahn to the Scholars this checks out). The Profaned Coal implies a relationship between the Dark, Blood, and Hollows.
Let's dig into what these possible connections could imply. The Blood gem references how they are slurped by the slaves of Irithyll but I would argue this is a misapplication of the gems. Bleeding weapons I tend to associate more directly with Carthus as, I believe all weapons with Carthus in the name have bleeding damage, not to mention there is Carthus Rouge, and though it has nothing to do with bleeding its name indicates their fondness for blood: Carthus Bloodring. Some lore hunters have speculated that Yhorm is the decedent of Wolnir and the Profane Coal's ability to let us make use of bleeding might be a step to making that connection. Next we have dark, if we are to take the Carthus connection as valid and Wolnir's place in that connection this pretty much speaks for itself. Lastly, the coal allows access to use of hollow gem's, a staple of Londer but why is it there. I agree that the women who defiled the flame were in fact connected to Londer rather than Izalyth at all. The Chaos flame has died while the Profaned flame is everlasting. Another thing to note is that the flame burned all the humans but in that description would we consider a hollow/undead human. If the argument that hollows/undead were exempt from being burned by the profaned linking it would explain why the jailer's continued to exist on through Yhorms linking and long enough to come into the service of Sullyvahn. We also know that some of the Jailers become Monstrosities of Sin which are identified as Abyss Creatures rather than demons (What is up with the Abyss and hands?)
This doesn't give us an flawless connection to the Sable Church but if you take a leap with me, we could argue that perhaps Elfreide's failed attempt to usurp the flame in her day is what caused this flame to become profaned in the first place creating a problem Yhorm would have to later resolve. Again, that is a wild leaping speculation but the more I think about it the more I kind of wonder... Could she be connected to Yhorm and the profaned capital? Could she be who he lost? We know she wields black pyromancies like those of the Carthus's Grave Wardens (Let's assume we accept Carthus has some connection to Yhorm and the Profaned Capital). Her efforts to usurp the flame DID result in her turning to ash whether the rest of this is true or not. This could have caused the initial defilement and Yhorm to forsake his shield. We know that the Sable Church will call anyone lord if they think it will get them where they want to go, one could call that insincere (insincerity referenced in his cinders), and Londor does not have a trustworthy reputation. Elfreide would not return to the world until the Lords of Cinder fail their task. Whether she knew of Yhorms new elevated status as one of those Lords of Cinder or not she could have ended up in the painting forlorn for her failure or that someone she cares about is now emblematic of everything she is against. Now she has a giant man that she will do anything to keep away from flame and lonely Yhorm sits on his thrown. A lot of that was last paragraph was coming to me while I was typing it so again it isn't an air tight theory. But I would argue that taking a look at the coals and the gems they associate to opens up new avenues for theories.
Part two, please! And a fine Dark Soul to you.
I like your theory.
Interesting and Good stuff as always. Thank you for taking some of your personal time and giving us a reason to keep playing DARK SOULS III.
Thanks so much for all the support friend! Means a ton! =) I'll keep trying my best!
Please don't stop making these lore videos, you're my favorite person who does these. Every-time I watch one of your lore videos a concept I haven't thought of is brought to light! Much love man, keep up the good work!
I'll keep trying my best! Thank you for the kind words friend! =)
I think the "certain oracle" whom the women who triggered the Profaned Flame are said to be relatives of is actually Pontiff Sulyvahn.
Is robe is basically the same as the "court sorcerer's robe", and these guys must have some point worked under him, back when he was in the Profaned Capital.
Looking forward to part 2! Certainly one of the most engaging lore videos about DS I've seen so far :-)
love all your videos, ive been an avid souls player from the start, played all the games, but without really knowing why or what, just mindlessly dying and killing, but your videos have brought to life and depth of these games, till now ive only uncovered or understood the bare min of the story, your videos are friggin awesome, keep it up man!!
When Gwyn, a Lord with the soul of Light, Linked the First Flame, a massive fire spreads, burning the Silver Knights that followed him; Charring them black.
When you, in Dark Souls, link the first flame very little light or flame is emitted, even with the immense amount of strength you've absorbed. Perhaps because your nature as a human imbues you with a soul that converts absorbed souls toward Dark, or the Abyss.
It could be that Yhorm or other Giants are more closely linked to Chaos, and as such, a Giant linking the first flame led to an Age of Chaos for the nearby area, rather than an age of Fire or Dark. The Giants, Gargoyles, and Demons are all linked in some ways.
However, you could also argue that Giants are more closely linked to Anor Londo. (An area filled with Lords, and Light.) I wonder if there's any significance in the Deacons of the Deep taking over Anor Londo. Maybe a connection to Chaos or even Dark has always followed Anor Londo, without Gwyn knowing.
None of this is definitive or even based on much, but it might spark something in you, and help you find more information.
This channel deserves WAY more subs than it has, superb content! keep it up!!
Thanks so much buddy! =)
Has anyone ever thought that maybe the text on the profaned greatsword saying "a burning ambition took root within him" could mean it corrupted him? As it is already known it swallows the hearts of those who come into contact with it, perhaps those words are simply a clever metaphor. This could also be tied into the first DLC items saying he was born in the painting but had not yet experienced loss. Perhaps his loss was tragically his own will when he discovered the capital and the flame. Just throwing some ideas out there for part 2 lol. Or perhaps a detailed video of sully
I automatically assumed that he was corrupted on contact. I mean it's called the friggin' Profaned Flame in a game about everything that can go wrong going wrong.
I always thought about it but. Whenever Sulivanh was corrupted and its actually because of the profaned flame that he became so violent and obsessed with replacing the first flame with it or maybe he was always as manipulative and sadistic and the flame was just a motive to him...we'll never know.
I don't fully agree with you, I must admit. Some points are interesting and, the way you link everything back to the manipulative Kaathe is pretty awesome. I also really love the scenery you managed to capture. Even in ruins, the Profaned Capital looks stunning. :)
Thanks for the video~
Great vid ashenhollow. Glad to see some new vids. I would love some more of your theory vids
If I may suggest, you should keep the item description on the screen longer, it's kinda better for the watcher to follow your voice with it.
Really great videos mate, really enjoy them. Keep the work going
7:29 I assumed the "scholar" that the spell refers to was talking about the person that you find the spell on
The soul that beholds beauty becomes beautiful.
What ever happened to the Furtive Pygmy? Did it become Manus? Has it become the Chaos /Profaned Flame? So easily forgotten...
since Manus is the first man and the furtive pygmy is the ancestor of humankind, they do seem to be the same.
With Yhorm I think it was the similar to what happens to the player character who is convinced to link the fire -- "Hmm this Yhorm fellow is pretty stout, bet he could do to link the fire. I hear he really wants to get rid of the Profaned Flame. (louder) Hey Yhorm, you know that thing you want a lot? (lying through their teeth) It will happen automatically if you go link the fire. Sounds good right?"
I have a theory that Yhorm is the descendant of Wolnir. I forget which item says it, but he is described as the descendant of a conqueror, but asked by those conquered to lead them.
Wolnir is described as a mighty warrior who was overcome by fear when the darkness enveloped him. It is said he prayed to the gods, but we're left wondering what the response to his prayer was.
I think his prayer was answered by someone who wanted to take advantage of his power, perhaps Quaathe. I think the Profaned Capital is the evil civilization that arose from Wolnir's dark prayer. Yhorm, tragically, seems to have been a good and selfless ruler, but it seems his people mocked him and took him for granted, perhaps only keeping him around because he was useful in battle, perhaps they needed him to serve as a link to Wolnir's power.
It seems that at some point yet another party convinced Yhorm to link the First Flame, and it is unclear if his motivation was to destroy the Profaned Flame. He may have been tricked into thinking it would save his people, but I think it's possible he finally realized what he was protecting and destroyed the Profaned Capital to cleanse its sins.
I also wonder if it's significant that Karla is imprisoned in the Irithyll Dungeon, while Siegward is trapped in the Profaned Capital. I kind of think Karla's path, wherever it started, took her from the P.C. to Irithyll, where she was not wanted. Siegward, wherever the hell Catarina is, seems to have know Yhorm somehow, and his journey to end his friend's suffering mostly bypasses Irithyll and the dungeon, but is halted in the P.C....
I have a strong feeling the DLC will return here in some way.
I can't believe I went right through Wolnir without realizing he was a giant... I guess his having a face threw me off since giant's used to not have faces. But now they do. Apparently.
In the trailer, you confront Wolnir in the place you confront Yhorm in the final game.
+Hero of Trains I always use to think that Yhorm was related to the Giant Lord from DS2
Rodrigo Lanas You do realize it's stated that when Wolnir prayed to the gods, which is stated to be the first time he ever prayed, the gods melted all the gold from the dead clerics to make the 3 golden bracelets that protect him from the abyss and Wolnir's Holy Sword. That's why he dies when you break the bracelets, those are the only things keeping him alive. And that's why his sword has WotG. It was literally crafted by them to keep Wolnir alive.
Interesting connection with the Crystal Sage crow mask and Velka. Reminds me of how Velka’s talisman casts via Intelligence stat
I realize I'm late in watching this video but I have to know what you did to the Manakin claws that made them kill Pontiff so quickly?
may be the profaned flame a knock-off first flame created by aldia and the bearer of the curse at the end of ds2? to broke the cicle of light and dark they mixed the two things togheter and created the profaned flame...that will be discovered by Sulyhvan...based on his statue in the high wall of Lothric, the dancer, vordt and the outrider knights and the profaned gargoyles i guess that he is at 99.9% the first of the scholars...he discovered both big hat logan scrolls (and probably was the mentor of the two crystal sages), and the profaned flame, and manipulated prince lothric to not link the first flame...i don't think kaathe is involved, probably he wants to achieve pure darkness
great theory man, you have my like
+Sternritter C: Malthael Aldritch thank you ;)
I think you are right about the profaned flame being a sort of copy of the first flame. I think that the Sable Church of Londor created the profaned flame as a means to cast off the need of the first flame. Here are my theories on the matter (mostly speculation). I think that the Profaned flame ushered in its own age of humanity. One opposed to the age brought on by the first flame. I believe the two ages waged war against each other and the humans of the profaned flame had Yhorm on their side. He fought as a vanguard and was eventually made their lord due to his strength. Over time Yhorm was getting more and more disgusted with his human subjects as it seemed that they hated him but was too cowardly to actually do anything to him. He even gave them a Storm Ruler in what seemed like a taunt to try to get them to attack him. But it seems that no one tried, even with the huge population that we see in the corpse piles in the profaned capital, no one had the courage to fight him. I believe Yhorm believed in warrior ethics (considering Seigward's ethics were about honor and valor it would make sense as to why they were friends.) and saw the humans from the age of the profaned flame as unworthy and decided to link the first flame in order to end the age of the profaned flame. I believe he willed the fire from the sky that burnt only the humans. He then swore to prevent the profaned flame from being used and had Seigward to promise to kill him if he failed his duty. Once Pontiff Sullivan discovered the profane flame and Yhorm did not stop him from wielding its power Seigward returned to honor his promise
dude your vids are fucking awesome keep it up
i would like to know more about Yhorm and Siegward... oh btw, i love all your videos about DS3
I know I'm really late to the party and not sure if anyone has already talked about this, but my personal theory is that the profaned flame, or at least the fire pit, is actually the lord vessel from dark souls 1. Looks visually similar and houses souls of chaos (choas bed), the fragments of gwyn, and darkness/the abyss with fragmebt from the four kings and potentially gravelord nito. It's not unreasonable to suspect that the mixing of these souls that lit the lord vessel has corrupted it, and we already know thay the lord vessel devours/burns souls. Makes sense to me, but I don't really have any definitive proof.
I always wondered why there were Profaned Gargoyles in Lothric Castle. Also something to mention, there's a lot of broken stone just before the gate that the 3 knights are defending that then lead onto the chambers of Prince Lothric. Perhaps that stone is from the gargoyles and if so why?
First of all great vids
my speculation whcih I had as soon as I saw the profaned capital that this the the place of the Lords Vessel from dark souls 1 and I believe that the profaned flame is the flame that Gwyn created because profaned means a sin or sacrilege and from DS2 dlc Gwen flame was called the first sin.
the profaned capital is underground beneath Anor Londo same location as lord vessel in DS1 even the walk way to the flame that the witchs in white are prying for is almost exact as DS1
on a side note the grand archive has two statues one of a serpent the other of a tree creature which I believe is Aldia the person who the souls game actually called the scholar in DS2 dlc
again this is all speculation
sorry for long post
Really great insight with excellent citing where appropriate. Keep it up.
What are those huge fist headed things in the swamp bit of the profaned capital? i found them yesterday and they were freaky O.O
What I've always wanted to dig into is the procession of 'upgrade' archetypes. In Dark Souls 'dark' weapons were called occult weapons but became occult through the divine upgrade path. With how much draws from Dark Souls 1 in terms of overall lore familiarity I can't help but think that somewhere an answer for our questions in DaSIII exists in DaSI. (But not DaSII as Memezaki has a superiority complex to B-team)
I believe its worth noting that Alsanna, the silent oracle, is a reincarnation of the "'fears'' of Manus whom you meet in Dark souls 2. The ivory king who she served brought with him knights to fight off the spawns of chaos much like Lord Gwyn did before him. I don't know how this ties in with this but its what i've learned
Since the Profaned Coal is essentially Dark Chaos (Chaos from this video and the Abyss from Andres description) I wonder if the Profaned Flame might have a link to the Dark Pyromaniacs of Carthus and Wolnir
Really interesting speculation, keep up the good work!
This sounds like something that might definitely be expanded on in future DLC, since it really seems like a huge part of the lore. Assuming this game gets three expansions like DS2 did, my guesses are that they'll involve the Profaned Flame (and/or possibly Chaos and the old witch), the Lothric royal family (due to its unmistakable importance in the story and the obvious hints at mysterious but potentially major characters like Gertrude and Ocelotte), and the Abyss (since this game seems to want to cover most of the same story beats as the first one, and because Manus's absence in this game seems pretty suspicious).
there are only 2 dlc coming
Awesome vid. I don’t think Kaathe would ever manipulate Yhorm into LINKING the fire - either Kaathe asked him to take the flame and he just linked it, or it was Frampt/gods that manipulated him.
The profaned flame has ties to the abyss, linking the flame would subdue it, and Kaathe would never want that
Funny thing : when I played through the game, I also thought the profaned flame came out of some trick, but I thought it was from Frampt to make Yhorm link the fire. I thought this when I read the Eleonora description, because I thought the oracle could be interpreted as frampt (who tells people to link the fire to fix their problems) especially considering that the blades of the Eleonora look like wings, which could be linked to frampt, as seems to have tried to make people think he was an angel in ds3
Notice that all of the Lords of Cinder did no relink the flame due to DARKNESS.
Aldrich: The Deep.
Abysswatchers: The Abyss
Yhorm: The profane flame
This could mean that the plot in Dark Souls 3 is controlled by none other than Kaathe.
Another evidence: The pilgrims are suddenly coming NOW. And there are millions of them everywhere. And Yuria is super exited to make you a lord... hmmm... how fishy.
anyone know what kind of weapon this flame-staff-thing is? Looks pretty cool. But I never saw that before. Or is that the weapon from one of those pyromancers in Irythil?
I wonder how Straid of Olaphis fits into this. In DS2, he made a spell called Flame Swathe. In DS3, its now called Profaned Flame.
AND, I also think that the Sage's hat does resemble something about Velka, because these Sages loved Logan, and I don't recall his hat having a crow look on his mask, but I may be wrong, so maybe they served Velka as well, and this would also tie Kaathe to the Archives, and supporting my theory of Kaathe being Lothric's mentor. But Dark Souls is all about speculation and theories. So at the end of the day, anyone can believe what they want.
Awesome video! One thing though, I, personally, don't think that the chaos flame and the profaned flame are the same. The profaned flame may be an offshoot, but it's not the actual chaos flame. If it was, the demons wouldn't be dying off.
I always thought what it meant wasn’t literally do something to the profaned flame by put it to rest I thought it meant kill everyone corrupted by it since the first flame when rekindled usually renews souls of humans. It would potentially be unable to with those corrupted and instead burned them
The profaned flame is showing that the age of fire itself is falling to dark. Linking the fire is no longer working. The witches fused a piece of the flame somehow with the abyss that's why it doesn't go out. It's at balance with fire consuming the abyss in equilibrium. However it is still a tainted flame and like the flame of chaos it mutates and/or changes those touched by it. When yhorm linked the flame the profaned flame consumed the capital because it is still tied to the first flame. It can't be destroyed by linking it. My opinion and theory
I think the profaned capital might just be Londor/New Londo. Mainly because the profaned capital/flame just means the nonreligious flame. The human/abyssal one. That's what New Londo is in relation to Anor Londo.
My chain of thought is pointing towards, Yhorm being fooled into linking the fire to lead him away, and Pontiff coming to the capitol to use the Profaned Flame to incinerate the people...I mean he did imbue the flame into the Fire Witch weapon so it would not be too far fetched to think he was also responsible for turning the people who hide behind the Giant into charcoal..
Make more on the profaned capital
Oh god! Velka! It's always Velka with this guy!
Had a thought, if it even makes sense; It doesn't ever fade, so what if the profaned flame isn't a 'flame' at all?
Idk, smith bro says he sees the Abyss in the profaned coal; implying the profaned flame itself is a flamey manifestation of the abyss/dark? It would make sense seeing the sisters ask the Lord of Hollows to 'usurp' the flame implying that a new flame must be put forth, yes?
love your lore vids man
I'd imagine that the profaned flame is a precursor to the usurpation of fire. By combining Yhorm's linking of the first flame with the creation and explosion of the profaned flame (in what I feel is a pretty clear parallel to the chaos flame), it would actually allow for that ending in DSIII. Granted this is pure speculation, but it at least gives a 'why' for the sable church's involvement. As an aside, could the profaned flame curse also be the same curse that affected Lothric both physically, as in his handicap, and emotionally, as in affecting his decision to not link the flame.
was watching a video on the profaned capitol and i noticed something. Its physical relation to anor londo. and that huge crack in the side of the mountain wall that shows the light... New Londo became the Profaned Capitol. Im sure of it. Has anyone else noticed this... i have watched a lot of videos and havnt heard anyone point this out... maybe its so obvious no one needed to. If not id be pretty stoked to dig up this find on my own.
Having played Dark Souls 1 immediately before 3, I noticed the striking similarity between the cities right away. Not enough of a lore buff to say it's a sure thing and not just parallels.
I think much more evidence points towards New Londo being Londor. I even think he referenced this in a previous video.
@@lochies5407 most likely, considering that's where the dark wraiths are from and likely were worshipped, but a pilgrimage wouldn't be that difficult from londor to lothric then
Man, this is one of the best Dark Souls channels I ever seen! =D
So, is the profane flame the flame that the Witch of Izalith created before DS1?
Thanks kindly friend! That is my thought! =)
While you may claim this video to be everywhere, it's still immensely within depth. I enjoy watching these because it's not just the first game that you use to prove your point, it's the whole series. Well, not two, but all the lore you could need in that game was said in the first five minutes, but nevertheless, I greatly enjoy this channel. I hope to continue watching your videos for as long as you continue. Simply as a question, what ending did you feel to be the best in three? Despite the darkness of it, I like the usurpation because you seemingly broke the cycle, but I was just curious
Thank you for the kind words! =)
Hmm, I may just be a big Velka fan boy, but since she has a place in the Sable Church, I gotta go with the Lord of Hollows ending!
I love your theories man . I WOULD LOVE if did something about the drakeblood Knights and the connection between ds2 and ds3 and why is that drakeblood knight armor after you defeat ocelot what's the connection there ?
The gargoyles in the grand archives are probably something pontif sulyvahn brought with him. Since we do have a statue with him and his profaned greatsword on there, it likely happened after he discovered the profaned flame. I don't think there is something more to it. Though the whip being on the grand archives is curious on itself.
True enough! There are just so many curiosities throughout the story. I may end up going hollow! @_@
Damn this channel keeps growing at an extra fast rate XD
As for the manipulator, I will say "Karla". She said she's born from the Abyss, and most importantly she felt really guilty. I just start playing DS2 SOTFS, and I think Profane Capital is a huge reference of DS2..I might have to get through that game to brainstorm some ideas.
And one final speculation! Could the thing Logan was looking for be Karla? The spell said something that mirrored the dark, we see her imprisoned very near the profaned capital, and we can think she had a connection the Church of Londor. In my opinion she has no connection to the church, and manipulated Yhorm to linking the fire, knowing what will happen when he links that fire, and this could've allowed her to do something with the Abyss. It could explain why the Profaned coal has the Abyss in it. Heaps more could be said on this theory, but one must re thing. Why is ladder gut from Dark Souls 2 in the Capital? So I put some interesting theories on this video. Looking forward to what you think!
The profaned flame is not the flamr of chaos we know because in the later dlc there is the demon prince to prove it. I always loved the profaned flame because its a new flame introduced in ds3 which defies any categorization of flames we've seen so far
You make the best theories on the internet
Thank you kindly friend! =)
Is that Paladin's Leeroy's Armor set?
Regarding Karla, all I can say at this point is that she's most likely a fragment of Manus. Why she was imprisoned (contrary to all other fragments, who assumed a more active role in their respective country) or what her intentions are is beyond me. Her dialogue, her clothes' item description and her ashes don't give away too much to speculate on. If I had to guess, I'd say she's not overly interested in any major events. If anything, she seems to have taken a liking to the Ashen One (as suggested by her dialogue when she greets us or after we give the Firekeeper eyes).
However, what we do get from her is a potential connection between Dark Pyromancy, Dark Sorceries and Dark Miracles as she teaches us all of them. They all seem to use Humanity as basis.
how do you get all this in-game footage?
Cheat Engine
what if the profane flame and first fire are the same? the profane capital does kinda resemble the kiln from dark souls 1 that pyromancy said the profane flame is below the capital and the first flame sparked beneath the ground.
I really don't think the pontiff was the first of the scholars but aside from that, well done
Man, i also was very confused when i saw this! Here is a statue with the head of a primordial serpent... we all saw this very early. But! There is no doubt for me that this is also a hollow body. And! To put the confusion to the extreme... it also is a body, with the winged marks of the various holy creatures! True words my friend....... WTF!?!
Here's an idea which will likely be refuted on principal, but shot in the dark here: When you make your way into the Profaned Capital's first bonfire, keeping in mind we are finding nods to DS2 even though most pple don't consider it cannon. Seeing as how you find the corpse of a certain ladder-smith spread out on the ground, and given the shape of that ruined tower made me think, what if Heide's Tower of Flame somehow collapsed & fell underground through some sort of earthquake/sinkhole which could have let whatever "flame" contained within loose or merely corrupted into what we'd then know in DS3 as the Profaned Flame? Hmmmmmmmm?
Just a quick but note worthy tid bit: I'm pretty sure that in one of the dev. Interviews, they stated that, although they look human, they are in fact Not human. I'm not trying to shoot down you're theories or anything, I actually find them very interesting, but I thout I'd mention this as it doesn't quite fit with manus, who we know was once human, as being father to the daughters of chaos, who we know are not human. Anyways, do keep up with the great work, I thoroughly enjoy you're videos
And because I can't proofread, the "they" I'm referring to at the beginning of my comment are the Daughters of Chaos and Izalith
He created the profaned flame in attempt to "copy" the first flame, which is the source of souls as we know from the DS1 Intro. The flame is the source of souls and souls are "all what prevents you from going hollow" (DS2 Intro). If you follow the path to collect the lord souls but don't relink the first flame, an age of dark will come but you will go hollow at some point (like vendrik in DS2). Which at some point will trigger another undead to follow the path up until he or she murders you and then links the flame. The re-linking of the flame to humanity as it's fuel / cinder is therefore inevitable if the dark lord that gwyn feared goes hollow.
That's why the profaned flame was created, to prevent that from happening. But it turns out, yhorm the giant still hollowed anyways. It is clear at this point that you cannot remake the first flame. The witch of izalith failed and so did yhorm. The only way to start the age of dark is to usurp the original first flame.
When is part two coming?
No part 2?
where do i get that armor and weapon you are wearing/using in the beginning of the video?
I personally think the Profaned Capital is the capital of Carthus. If you give the Carthus Pyromancy Tome to Cornyx and talk to him afterwards, he says that it is akin to the Chaotic pyromancy found in Izalith. It seems this Profaned Flame was the magnum opus of Wolnir during his reign, creating an incredibly powerful flame that shined like a beacon, a testament to the indomitable kingdom of Carthus. Though as powerful as Wolnir and his kingdom may be, he certainly wasn't wise, and so he was unaware of the ruin his dabbling in the forbbiden arts would bring upon his kingdom. Even more foolish was Wolnir when he took on pyromancy of the Dark, his journey for even more power leading him to be imprisoned inside a skull. As for the the woman who tended to the Profaned Flame, I wouldn't exactly be surprised if they were fragments of Manus as it seems only those of the Dark can calm the chaotic flame. With that being said, a bit strange we find Karla, aye? We know Sulyvahn feared opposition, but surely Karla provided none given the fact that Sulyvahn is very much in touch with the Dark. No, she was not locked away because of her capability to cast Dark spells and pyromancies, but because she was the only other person capable of suppressing the Profaned Flame. As I said, Carthus was a force to be reckoned with, so why engage the enemy if you can just lock away their savior and have the flame kill them off? I feel like Sulyvahn encouraged Yhorm to link the flame, so as to remove the most prominent threat. He tricked him into thinking it would spare his people, but really it just spared Sulyvahn a pain in the neck.
Yeah I always wondered what the gargoyles were doing on the ramparts of the archives.
first time i plaayed DS3 i was cussing out the Pontiff hoping he would rot in the abyss. however i really love his story! he seems really important and might even be a character with more meaning to the story than we. believe
may if i ask whats up with this gaping dragon things in dark souls 3, This Aliens creaturs in the sewerage or the thing on the Bridge with his gaping stomach, you also find them by the aldrich covernant. Sry for my english
It seems they are the end result of the outriders curse
Isn't Profaned Flame pyromancy the same kind of pyromancy as Flame Swathe, the one Straid of Olaphis teaches you?
Could the Profaned Capitol be linked with ancient Olaphis or IS ancient Olaphis?
Darn. I literally just thought of some of the points you make in this video and was going to offer some insight on the 'Did Velka and Her Sisters Found the Sable Church of Londor?' video. Turns out I'm mostly late. That being said, here are some random thoughts from some nobody who doesn't lore much :
As you mentioned, it makes more sense for the founders to be descendants of Manus rather than of the witch of Izalith (it's not impossible for them to be both tho), but the pattern as set in DS2 was that all of them carried the syllable -na. Nashandra, Alsanna, Elana, Nadalia... I find it hard to believe that Miyazaki (and/or whoever wrote DS3) wouldn't catch on that when it came to Karla. It makes so much sense for her to be another fragment of Manus, so why is there no -na ? Nani ? Well, there is no -n anymore, but an -a sound remain. Could that imply that the relationship with Manus is more distant than that of DS2's spawn of the abyss ? As in... she isn't directly a shard of Manus but is a descendant of a shard of Manus (most likely Alsanna) ?
That idea is somewhat runs counter-intuitive to the "daughter" item description. when Karla mentionned she wa a child of the abyss, everyone immediately assumed she was another shard of Manus, the father of the abyss, thus making her a "daughter" of the abyss, in extenso making all the DS2 fragments daughters all the same. In that regard, it could light some sense into the sudden emphasis of the word "daughter", especially in the context of an item related to the dark. Assuming "daughters" to be in relation to one of DS2's shards definitely isn't as clear.
You also mention how these women are "relative to a certain oracle", thus not directly implying a parental link. Plus the court sorcerer set once again muddying the water. But that might be all it is : confusion thrown in the mix to throw people off. What is less believable is how Yuria and Karla don't aknowledge each other in Firelink Shrine... For the latter, it could be that more NPC interaction would be added to the DLCs, after all most of the character going to Firelink Shrine, be it in DS1 or DS3, have an end to their narrative... except, Karla. (And Cornyx, as far as I can tell.)
Either way, the link between Londor and the shards of Manus from DS2 are here. The methods are also similar, as both the Na-ladies and the Sable Church went looking for one worthy of the flame, a true lord. Except the Sable Church decided to actively create a society entirely dedicated to that cause rather than merely finding a lord to attach themselves to.
All of this begs many questions tho. Such as : how is Yhrom connected to Londor, if at all ? Was Yhorm just some useful potential lord the sisters used as an attempt or an experiment ? It's also possible that Yhorm is the descendant of Wolnir, Wolnir being an ancient ruler to a sand kingdom. Well, in "Sable church of Londor" is the word "sable", which is also the french word for "sand". Purely coincidental, I'm sure.
Who is Karla ? Is she really like Yuria ? We have some inkling as to why she was imprisoned, she was considered a heretic, possibly by the jailers in teh dungeon who are described as missing the old days of the profane capital. From that we could assume she directly was involved in what happen there, but she seems so intent of informing you of her nature rather than letting you in the dark, being in that regard very different to Yuria who remains ever vague until she is certain you are the one she wants. Could Karla have been the one to Yhorm as Yuria is the one for you, but then regretted the outcome of her action ? Does Alva has a place in this ?
Why did Eleonora died (and was turned into an axe) ? Given Eleonora is a boss item due to its upgrade path thus at one point was someone, that the description of the item refers to a group she was part of thus related to Alsanna due to the circumstances and the proeminent -a sound in her name making her potentially a sister to Yuria and Karla, what happened to her ? Lilianne and Yuria left the Profaned Capital, Karla was imprisoned by survivors of the capital due to her abyssal nature, and Eleonora... died. Or maybe she is "the certain oracle", but... erf...
The axe could also tell a story in & out of itself, it's hard to take of it only one thing to be sure of. The axe's special power is both in visual and actual effect very reminiscent of miracles (there's also warth of the god in that same building, altho it's somewhat less noteworthy), light rather than dark whereas all of her known would-be sisters are definitely more versed in the dark arts, but the hollow gem gained from trading it with the crow hints at Eleonora's true nature. The axe is also found inside the sin creatures. Symbolically, their heads are Manus' hand, that could mean they carry out Manus' will to squash the light, involving killing one of his descendant who, by associating with the usual way of the gods and their miracles, is heresy to Manus' dark nature. Sin is very much a word used in relation to the flame, so it's hard to think that the name of the creatures is not related to that, but looking at it from the angle that Eleonora's betrayal to her own nature is heresy, we could call it a sin. I know it's a huge stretch but hey ! Speculations !
Another tenuous element linking the profaned capital to Londor is the Pale shade. The pale shades appear to all be women, as they are called "harlots" and wear more feminine clothes. The color of their set somewhat matches that of the Jailers found in the profaned Capital, and their mask is especially very similar. Not much to go by.
Jayzus. I wrote a lot.
In my opinion, Kaathe is actually the close mentor the of Prince Lothric, because we know he didn't like the linking the of the fire, we know he was good at manipulating people, and we know that something caused Lothric to not want to link the fire. This would certainly help Kaathe and his Church. And if we didn't already know that Lorians sword was of fire from killing a Demon Prince, we could've also argued that his sword was scared r he'd by the profaned flame. Just a thought
"Scorched by the Profaned flame," not scared r.
I think velka is Logan because the velk talisman in ds1 scaled on int
Is there credibility that Frampt could have convinced Yorm/Yorm’s followers that linking the flame would put out the profaned flame? He was always after keeping the age of fire going and that would have kept he circle going. He would have known that it could not put out the flame but would kindle the fire.
What if the Profaned Capital IS Londor, hence why you had the Undead Settlement, as it was basically a refugee camp?
I was thinking that the profaned flame was a manipulation of the dark soul, just as the chaos flame was a manipulation of the life soul. We often think the dark is the opposite of the flame but the furtive Pygmy was also an ember birthed from the flame in DS1 opening cinematic. I don't believe it to be the chaos flame because the chaos flame, from what I've seen, is dead or dying along with all the demons that clung to it. However what really stuck out to me is how the flame is undying, which is what all of dark souls lords were trying to create, and very few things in these games are immortal, the dragons, the serpents, and hollows. Now hollows may not be the prettiest or nicest form of immortality but it still is immortality none the less which makes me see a connection with this flame, as well as its ember being able to make weapons dark or hollow, so that's just my little theory on what the profaned flame is
That would also go along with what they are being based on. Life soul creates life so when it went astray it created corrupt demon life. The profaned flame is created from dark so its corruption destroys anything and everything with enough time (destroys the souls of the user)
It could be the Furtive Pygmy! So easily forgotten.
But you need to differentiate between dark and hollow. The dark in a human is his humanity and only when he loses this dark does he go hollow. Gwyn also hollowed, but he never had a fragment of the dark soul. So I don't see a connection to hollows, which is a theme of the new kaathe and londor, but only one to the abyss and manus, possibly the deep if it really is the abyss.
im new an your videos seem well made for such a small channel. im sure you'll grow big
Thank you kindly! =)
+The Ashen Hollow no problem man, best of luck to you and your channel.
About the londor shade- if you kill the pilgrim in the church of yorshka, you get invaded by him instead.
Where
+DayQuilAssLeak29 down in the area you have to run through to open the elevator shortcut in front of the church of yorshka
+Armazillo oh I guess I'll kill him this time what weapons do he use?
+DayQuilAssLeak29 I think morion blade and sorceries. I don't know though I didn't fight him. I restarted my game so I could the boss fight lol
Armazillo lol i'll let you know how it goes when i get there
all i wonder is where the fuck did the primordial serpents go after ds1
After Playing the DLC Alfreide soul is reference and a twisted soul , just like The 3 sisters fro DSII , so they must be fragments os the manus or whatever his name was .
Wouldn’t the sisters of the sable church be pontiffs aunts and mom? Didn’t we find that out?
Don't forget the handmaiden knives. The church of londor may be involved but I think the maidens referenced are the ones around the profaned flame cauldron. They would be descendants of Alsanna I believe. The abyss is in it because like sin being poisoned she had slowly corrupted the chaos with us subduing it in dark souls two enough for the profaned capital to form with chaos contained. Karla I think is a direct descendent of Alsanna.
So summary. Alsanna had descendents in Karla and the handmaidens of the profaned capital. With the chaos subdued and slowly corrupted by the abyss is became somewhat controllable and Karla may have been the head of the sorcery school of the profaned capital. From her dialogue she very much resists you imposing the dark miracles on her but is very comfortable with the dark pyromancies. She may have been contacted by the sable church but been against their goal like Alsanna leading to everything.
She would have been more concerned with containing the profaned flame. This interaction and destruction of the capital also seeded the world creating the pilgrim butterflies. They obviously are chaotic flame in nature but come from hollows and if you notice they have bloat heads like oolicile in one. Their inverted rib cage is also very reminiscent of the beasts of Sullivan and man centipedes all likely influenced by the profaned flame and deep/abyss.
We need more Velka stuff to pop up in the DLC's. Please From... do a Velka DLC! DO IT!
YES! It is everything I've ever dreamed of!
the oracle is from eleyum loyce. not the church of sable and not the chaos witch. she is the only person in the game who is referred to as the oracle.
Yeah, I know. I said all of that in the video! =)
I wanna rock a plague doctor mask.
Well, I feel like Irythil was built on the ruins of Eleum Loyce.
That could be the case! There is a definitely an argument to be had for it! Nice insight! =)
The Ashen Hollow I also have a feeling that The Nameless King and Faraam could be the same entity.
+Kaleb Cranor (Moonlight Warrior) tons of people also think the samething
+Kaleb Cranor (Moonlight Warrior) I don't, I think Faraam's technically a name something that the Nameless King is contractually not allowed to have
What if the chosen undead/unkind led ash is velka?