Nature abhors a vacuum. The party might have cleaned out the dungeon once, but now it's free real estate for someone else to move in. Renew, recycle, reuse. Excellent advice.
The great thing about Sandbox is that you can upcycle locations and materials - you've reached the end of a campaign, but not all the hexes are filled in, so you can start a new campaign in the same world (maybe even with the same players) and retread locations with different factions/groups occupying the location, or use them to demonstrate the passage of time. "Remember that cemetery outside the Dwarven stronghold in the mountains that was overrun by the undead? Well, the undead have been put to rest and there's now a thriving Dwarven settlement inside." "Remember that cave system you explored at level 15? Well, now a group of goblins have taken over, and we need someone to clear them out." "Remember that one tiny settlement that you helped establish ... Well, something happened and now it's a ghost town."
Moreover, any threats the last party failed to address in the previous campaign may have evolved into the high level antagonists of the next. After all, their biggest rivals in the region were taken out by a bunch of rat-catchers. "Remember that giant evil spider you ignored? Well, she's birthed a vast brood, who now dominate the eastern forest and the high mountains." "Remember the necromancer's lieutenant that got away? He's now a warlord, who picked up a bunch of other minions from your defeated enemies." "Remember that tower you saw once, but didn't explore? It's _walking_ now."
I run a monthly game at my local library and I do a "mega" dungeon crawl scenario. I generally use the 1 month real time = 1 month game time in order to justify repopulating some of the room. The first time, my players were surprised to find that a band of Goblins had moved into a bunch of rooms that they had cleaned out previously! >:-]
Hey Earthmote. Just realized it's been a hot minute since I've seen one of your videos, for whatever reason, UA-cam has not been showing them to me. Just commenting and resubbing in hopes the algorithm recognizes. Cheers!
I think it's very valid to have a new faction move into a dungeon overnight, but it depends on what else you've set up in the area. For example, you've got a band of ogres occupying a dungeon, and there's a goblin tribe living in the forest a few miles away. The goblins have been paying tribute to the ogres for years. One day, the goblin envoys bring their payment to the ogres and find that they have clearly been eradicated. Then the goblins move right in!
In some instances it could make sense! But if you do it too often, it might start to feel unbelievable. Plus often there isn't a need for it to be that fast. The party likely isn't coming back to the dungeon immediately (unless its a large/mega dungeon and they didn't finish their exploration there in the first place).
@@Earthmote Very true! For me, it's less about _need_ and the _party_ and more about following what I've set out for the factions' behaviors. If you're keeping strict time records, and it's time for some local faction to visit the dungeon, I think you should follow what the faction would do if they find it "cleared". In the example I had, the goblins _might_ just leave their tribute at the dungeon entrance to avoid any interaction with the ogres. So they _might not_ notice anything amiss for a while (depending on how often they leave tribute and who else might wander by and find it). Either way, I find it interesting that the party might come back by the dungeon and find a pile of loot at the entrance. Or, maybe, the goblins moved into the dungeon and the party runs across their abandoned settlement in the forest.
One thing I ALWAYS pay attention to is that NOTHING happens in a vaccum. What the players do in one place is likely to impact nearby locations in one way or another. The game world is not a static setting.
It funny, that how one of my board game features would work. The game has you rushing across the realm to arm the survivors against the mutating horror named the Taint, all regions get slowly infected as it spreads and they creep into the dungeons. They can reduce or mutate the amount of enemies in a dungeon, alter the dungeon and potentially make it "easier" to break in. Like for exmaple, a necromantic kingdom has good rewards but e v e r y person in the kingdom is a skeleton so taking on the horde is ill advised. The Taint would reduce the amount of summoned dead but you may be paying a great cost for not clearing it up... or you already planned for it. 😂
I dont mind this theory of design, but i did once get feedback from someone who didn't like "how nihilistic" it was. They felt that having to retread the same locations multiple times left them with a sort of "adventuring is futile, it's a waste of time" feeling.
It can be but i bet if you ask them how much They travel out of where they live, it will be funny. Jokes aside. You could always alter it or have it be totally warped. I think the player is mad that you arent his content slave. 😂
@@Subject_Keter The way they put it was that this didn't feel in a game like having a new problem, it felt like an old problem wasn't staying solved. Also, because of general expectations around leveling, the thing that moved into the castle tends to be worse than what was in the castle before. So they got this sorta meta "we never should have cleared out the goblins, all we did was create an opening for the demons to move in."
Watching these vids, i feel like I'm one of the few that doesn't like a sandbox method. If i prep an abandoned mine for our next session, the players show up knowing that's the adventure we are going to run. If they decided to skip the mine to explore the nearby hidden castle, then there would be no adventure unless I developed everything on the fly. Now after we finish the mine, if they say they want to scout the hidden castle next, then I'll prep that for next time. I don't get the appeal of this open sandbox environment where the players' choices are not likely to align with what the DM has prepped.
I think it might depend on how you prepare for these sites. For me, if there's a hidden castle and a mine in the area, I'm going to have both of those ready to go (whether I've created them or just brought in Somebody Else's Modules to use). For me, the pre-session prep is going to be reading through, making some notes, and maybe some small changes. I haven't felt it to be a big deal when the players decide to change what they want to do. When that has happened, I've just asked them to give me about 10 minutes to skim through their _new_ destination again. If you're waiting for them to say they're going to the castle to create it (or find an appropriate SEM), then that can definitely be difficult. It might also depend on how comfortable you are with improvising and fitting in those details later because, for example, you forgot there was a harpy nest at the top of one of the towers.
Well, sandboxes aren't for everyone and that's okay! Play the way that works for your table. But to give some guidance on how I make my sandboxes work, I ask my players their plans for the next session at the end of your active one. That way, I know in advance what I need to prep. Obviously, they can change their plans if something happens within the fiction, and that might require improv on my part. But its sort of a social contract that as a group that they will make their decisions at the end of the session so I can have some direction on what to prep next.
@@Earthmote Plus, as a DM, you can throw as many "random" encounters at the party on the way to their spur-of-the-moment quest as you need. If they spend most of the session dealing with weird, disconnected stuff on the road, and then the rest at the entrance to their newly intended location, that's another week bought for you to figure out a plan. For times like these, keeping some sidequests or encounter ideas in your DM folder is a useful tactic. Adjusting encounter composition or difficulty as needed to keep pace with the party.
Great points 🤌 reminds me a lot of various video game tricks for re-experiencing or remixing content (which, TTRPGs are falling WAY behind video games as far as ripping ideas from each other)
I always tell those in my DMing tree that prep is rarely wasted, it's just waiting to be used somewhere else in the future. Great advice, Earthmote!
Thanks!
Nature abhors a vacuum. The party might have cleaned out the dungeon once, but now it's free real estate for someone else to move in. Renew, recycle, reuse. Excellent advice.
Yep, the world keeps moving!
From the quantum ogre to the traveling ogre
Great video. I listened to it through the lens of a Dolmenwood campaign I’m starting soon.
Dolmenwood looks great. I plan to run a campaign in it soon too.
The great thing about Sandbox is that you can upcycle locations and materials - you've reached the end of a campaign, but not all the hexes are filled in, so you can start a new campaign in the same world (maybe even with the same players) and retread locations with different factions/groups occupying the location, or use them to demonstrate the passage of time.
"Remember that cemetery outside the Dwarven stronghold in the mountains that was overrun by the undead? Well, the undead have been put to rest and there's now a thriving Dwarven settlement inside." "Remember that cave system you explored at level 15? Well, now a group of goblins have taken over, and we need someone to clear them out." "Remember that one tiny settlement that you helped establish ... Well, something happened and now it's a ghost town."
Yeah, that's a nice way to have continuity between campaigns if you use the same setting!
This is a great approach, but I can't resist the urge to just start again.
Moreover, any threats the last party failed to address in the previous campaign may have evolved into the high level antagonists of the next. After all, their biggest rivals in the region were taken out by a bunch of rat-catchers.
"Remember that giant evil spider you ignored? Well, she's birthed a vast brood, who now dominate the eastern forest and the high mountains."
"Remember the necromancer's lieutenant that got away? He's now a warlord, who picked up a bunch of other minions from your defeated enemies."
"Remember that tower you saw once, but didn't explore? It's _walking_ now."
I run a monthly game at my local library and I do a "mega" dungeon crawl scenario. I generally use the 1 month real time = 1 month game time in order to justify repopulating some of the room. The first time, my players were surprised to find that a band of Goblins had moved into a bunch of rooms that they had cleaned out previously! >:-]
Hey Earthmote. Just realized it's been a hot minute since I've seen one of your videos, for whatever reason, UA-cam has not been showing them to me. Just commenting and resubbing in hopes the algorithm recognizes. Cheers!
Another great one!
I think it's very valid to have a new faction move into a dungeon overnight, but it depends on what else you've set up in the area. For example, you've got a band of ogres occupying a dungeon, and there's a goblin tribe living in the forest a few miles away. The goblins have been paying tribute to the ogres for years. One day, the goblin envoys bring their payment to the ogres and find that they have clearly been eradicated. Then the goblins move right in!
In some instances it could make sense! But if you do it too often, it might start to feel unbelievable.
Plus often there isn't a need for it to be that fast. The party likely isn't coming back to the dungeon immediately (unless its a large/mega dungeon and they didn't finish their exploration there in the first place).
@@Earthmote Very true! For me, it's less about _need_ and the _party_ and more about following what I've set out for the factions' behaviors. If you're keeping strict time records, and it's time for some local faction to visit the dungeon, I think you should follow what the faction would do if they find it "cleared". In the example I had, the goblins _might_ just leave their tribute at the dungeon entrance to avoid any interaction with the ogres. So they _might not_ notice anything amiss for a while (depending on how often they leave tribute and who else might wander by and find it). Either way, I find it interesting that the party might come back by the dungeon and find a pile of loot at the entrance. Or, maybe, the goblins moved into the dungeon and the party runs across their abandoned settlement in the forest.
One thing I ALWAYS pay attention to is that NOTHING happens in a vaccum. What the players do in one place is likely to impact nearby locations in one way or another. The game world is not a static setting.
Thank you for the video, you're really helping me prep for my upcoming sandbox campaign
I'm glad it could help!
It funny, that how one of my board game features would work.
The game has you rushing across the realm to arm the survivors against the mutating horror named the Taint, all regions get slowly infected as it spreads and they creep into the dungeons.
They can reduce or mutate the amount of enemies in a dungeon, alter the dungeon and potentially make it "easier" to break in.
Like for exmaple, a necromantic kingdom has good rewards but e v e r y person in the kingdom is a skeleton so taking on the horde is ill advised. The Taint would reduce the amount of summoned dead but you may be paying a great cost for not clearing it up... or you already planned for it. 😂
3:30 Did you throw your own lego build to get that footage? xD
Hey! I love your vídeos! Amazing content. Do you any video on how to handle and manage pacing on a sandbox explorarion focused rpg?
I dont mind this theory of design, but i did once get feedback from someone who didn't like "how nihilistic" it was. They felt that having to retread the same locations multiple times left them with a sort of "adventuring is futile, it's a waste of time" feeling.
It can be but i bet if you ask them how much They travel out of where they live, it will be funny.
Jokes aside. You could always alter it or have it be totally warped. I think the player is mad that you arent his content slave. 😂
@@Subject_Keter The way they put it was that this didn't feel in a game like having a new problem, it felt like an old problem wasn't staying solved. Also, because of general expectations around leveling, the thing that moved into the castle tends to be worse than what was in the castle before. So they got this sorta meta "we never should have cleared out the goblins, all we did was create an opening for the demons to move in."
3:10 trigger warning
I'm literally shook right now😮
Watching these vids, i feel like I'm one of the few that doesn't like a sandbox method. If i prep an abandoned mine for our next session, the players show up knowing that's the adventure we are going to run. If they decided to skip the mine to explore the nearby hidden castle, then there would be no adventure unless I developed everything on the fly. Now after we finish the mine, if they say they want to scout the hidden castle next, then I'll prep that for next time. I don't get the appeal of this open sandbox environment where the players' choices are not likely to align with what the DM has prepped.
I think it might depend on how you prepare for these sites. For me, if there's a hidden castle and a mine in the area, I'm going to have both of those ready to go (whether I've created them or just brought in Somebody Else's Modules to use). For me, the pre-session prep is going to be reading through, making some notes, and maybe some small changes. I haven't felt it to be a big deal when the players decide to change what they want to do. When that has happened, I've just asked them to give me about 10 minutes to skim through their _new_ destination again. If you're waiting for them to say they're going to the castle to create it (or find an appropriate SEM), then that can definitely be difficult. It might also depend on how comfortable you are with improvising and fitting in those details later because, for example, you forgot there was a harpy nest at the top of one of the towers.
Well, sandboxes aren't for everyone and that's okay! Play the way that works for your table.
But to give some guidance on how I make my sandboxes work, I ask my players their plans for the next session at the end of your active one. That way, I know in advance what I need to prep.
Obviously, they can change their plans if something happens within the fiction, and that might require improv on my part. But its sort of a social contract that as a group that they will make their decisions at the end of the session so I can have some direction on what to prep next.
@@Earthmote Plus, as a DM, you can throw as many "random" encounters at the party on the way to their spur-of-the-moment quest as you need. If they spend most of the session dealing with weird, disconnected stuff on the road, and then the rest at the entrance to their newly intended location, that's another week bought for you to figure out a plan.
For times like these, keeping some sidequests or encounter ideas in your DM folder is a useful tactic. Adjusting encounter composition or difficulty as needed to keep pace with the party.
🥕
🤓
Great points 🤌 reminds me a lot of various video game tricks for re-experiencing or remixing content (which, TTRPGs are falling WAY behind video games as far as ripping ideas from each other)
Thanks! Yeah I think its a good idea to take ideas from other systems (video games, books, TTRPGs, movies, tv, etc.)