Hi Alisa, I began listening to your podcast this week, and I’m really enjoying it. I have been a born-again Christian for 48 years. It saddens my heart when I see churches changing in ways that do not agree with true Biblical Christianity. Thank you for addressing some of these issues. Both my husband and I are enjoying listening and learning. Lord bless you as you continue in His Work.
James Trotter do you actually believe that comment by JP is some sort of Wisdom. What would it sound like if you spoke it out loud in the voice of Donald Duck. What would that say about God. Would that be O.K. would that man that God is a duck. Just asking?
If your belief system has a hierarchy, RUN. If you’re a Christian and someone is telling you there’s a hierarchy among believers in the eyes of God, RUN. Nothing good has ever come out of placing one person over another in terms of who receives God’s love or blessing or favor more. To the one uplifted, it inflates their arrogance. To the one cast down, it destroys them with despair.
There was hierarchy in the church from day 1. There's hierarchy in the Kingdom of God. There's hierarchy in nature. The question is if the higher-ups are lording over the rest, or serving them in love.
Those "chills"/"goosebumps" were a huge stumbling block for me. I genuinely believed that those came from being in God's presence and that whenever I didn't feel them, God wasn't near or I wasn't near Him. I now know that those came because of how excited and euphoric I was after being saved and born again. I mostly felt them in the "Honeymoon Phase" of my Salvation and I still get them now but not as much because nowadays the feeling isn't as much a euphoria for God, it has become more of a mature love and reverence for Him.
Anybody can have chills / goosebumps... it's emotional / physiological / brain chemicals etc. Athiests get the chills/goosebumps. It's not bad, but neither does it mean you're hearing/feeling the divine/God.
I recently left a church like this and you are right, these teachings do put a burden on you. I’m so grateful to God that He helped me to see the truth and come out of that deception. It feels like a literal weight has come off of me. It is a very deceptive teaching that seems to be focused on God, but in reality it is focused on self.
How did you finally get out? How long were you in it? My mom has been brainwashed into the NAR and I am constantly arguing with her over this. Can you give any advice as to how I can help her? Should I just leave her alone and stop saying anything?
@@lonewulf1922 I was going to this particular church for 4 years. I never fully felt comfortable at the church, but was taught to “submit to the teaching” and that I was “afraid of what the spirit wanted to do”. So my true beliefs didn’t actually line up with NAR, but I thought that the NAR was correct…if that makes sense. I think it was a process over time to realize and come back to my true beliefs that I had held since I was saved. What helped me a lot was watching a Mike Winger video on UA-cam where he talked about NAR and Word of Faith and these different groups and then contradicted their teachings with biblical truth. Listening to his videos made me realize that my beliefs had always actually lined up with what he was saying, which was also why I never felt comfortable at that church. I honestly think the Lord was helping me to come out of the deception, because I had seen previous videos years before speaking against NAR and I couldn’t receive it, I would just get offended. I would say that you could try to share some resources or videos, but the most important thing is to pray. Pray for wisdom and discernment and that the Lord would open her eyes.
Other helpful teachers are Chris Rosebrough @ Fighting 4 The Faith and Pirate Christian Media, Steve and Paulette Kozar @ The Messed Up Church, and Dan and Robin Long @ Long4Truth, all on UA-cam. And of course, Justin Peters.
@@lonewulf1922 ohh Samuel , dear me have you got a problem. I’m serious you see your mother will honestly think she is being persecuted for her belief . Because she can’t differentiate , and is unaware of the Theological subtleties. It really “Christian Buddhism” and it’s so devious the way it has crept in . Just pray 🙏 that she is released from this Christian Buddhism. People are getting aroused and clapping at songs that are error eg..”Is there an Ancient Anointing rising from the ground . This is Samsara Buddhism and for years they try to smuggle it in . So if you told your mother she had become a Christian Buddhist she would feel offended. There is only one five fold ministry Ephesians 4. Not an extra special one as they intimate . It’s just a resurgence of failed Torontoism. Anything to add to the Gospel as an accoutrement. To get away from the Word. It is man focussed . A Social Gospel to draw Saints away from the word . Presently it is Covering/Safeguarding in order to distract from the Word . A Social Gospel and people are losing their grasp on the Word of God. Just pray and ask the Lord to show you what to do and say.
I struggle to listen to Justin Peters. I can’t get past the tone that wreaks of mockery to me. If people are in error, Jesus wants to restore them to right fellowship with Him. We should be grieved and praying for them, even as we call out things that are against The Bible.
I absolutely agree with you. ‘The tone that wreaks of mockery’. It makes me so uncomfortable, I will NOT listen to him. I AM grateful to have found a few channels that discuss these very important things respectfully.
Satire works for me. What the NAR do is antichristian/ satanic. Peters is in the John McArthur " club" with a very hard and mockery way of preaching about non biblical churches. It sound very harsh. Again using satire but in such important issue as the false churc a more humble aproach would perhaps be more profesional than mock follower of the Prosperity "church" and make lots of fun out of it. Dont sit well with me as it might sound prideful : the Grace commity is superior. Not a humble approach for sure.
Since Cancel Culture is real, you might want to head over to Locals, and get your videos uploaded to a dedicated website, that is overseas, like Iceland, Netherlands, Switzerland and some other countries. Because these countries and some companies don't care about US Law and in particular Iceland has laws on the books that help prevents a content creator for being deplatform. I plan to move all my websites and start doing videos again, on a dedicated website. Sure, cost much more money. But it is a nice back up, just in case UA-cam goes full 1984.
When he was talking about the nar prophets coming up with new revelations to get people to forget the old ones that didn't pass it reminds me of Deuteronomy 18:20-22
Admitting the burden is amazing. I keep telling supposed apostles and prophets that their burden is unbiblical, Jesus says, "my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Why weigh yourself down with that responsibility, which I would argue is sin?
@@kofizayn6077 Scripture says, "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away." Jesus also says, "[M]any will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" So scripture does say prophecy will cease and there are prophets and exorcists going to hell. Please seriously consider Scripture before responding.
@@velociray Either it doesn't say there are no more prophets it just says there will also be fake ones. Also in Africa there are lots and lots of prophets in Africa who prophesy and do miracles and wonders like prophet passion Java, prophet obofour, prophet obinim, prophet omoto Jeremiah or prophet edd Branson and lots and lots of and lots of prophets in Africa who do miracles and wonders.
Watch some he’ll testimonies you won’t stay an aethiest for long. Repent ! Just because there are wolves in the church doesn’t mean you don’t have to repent ..
My husband and I just started two weeks ago going to Harvest church. We have been at evangelical church for a bit and love the people but felt not a lot passion in worship. Well… the service worship at Harvest is so lively emotional experience, we LOVED IT. Then on news letter just to get to know church reading it and saw quote from TD Jakes and then Bill Johnson and red flags came up. Then noticed also they have SOZO Ministry not knowing last night what it is. Seems so unscriptural and new age ?! Sorry jumping all over just found this all out last night ! That Bethel churches into Firetunnel and grave soaking ?! Also seems very new age and not scriptural. Now really concerned about going to this church and when I pointed this out to my husband who is usually very balance Christian and he uncharacteristically got very angry and said Well I’m going whether you go or not. 😢 There is something weird going on ? Been praying 🙏 a lot of the night about this. And of course crash course all this stuff since yesterday evening and now watching ex NAR leaders renounce this style church. Never before payed attention to this. I guess Gods got me getting versed quickly ✝️
If it doesn't feel right definitely don't dismiss that. Dig deeper and find answers. Im currently doing so much research and it's so crazy to me that no one is talking about this. How is it going now? Did you stay at the church?
I’m curious about Michael Yousef, his church is Church of the Apostles. But, he is a straightforward Bible teacher, I listen to his preaching and I love it. He does not mince words.
Michael Yousef walks the line of progressive teaching and worse Zionism. I do believe is a Christian, but the celebrity I think is getting to him in a negative way, similar to what is happening Max Lucado.
TBN was my first church also, it was a huge blessing as a new Christian, that was over 20 years ago, i remember watching TBN tell 4:00 AM, the best teachers where on after midnight 😊
Many will be deceived, by those that come in his Name ( could be “ anointed Christians, Apostles, etc. ) Remember Jesus said “Depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you!” To the very people performing miracles in Jesus Name
This video couldn’t have shown up at a better time. My girlfriends daughters dad Takes the girls to his church every other weekend and every other Wednesday and this is the garbage that’s being taught in their nondenominational church. We are working with the girls to show them the differences between our church and their dad’s church and we just hope and pray that the lightbulb comes on.
2 verses for you bro that help me and my parenting if you see this Proverbs 14:29 Whoever is patient has great understanding, but one who is quick tempered displays folly.
Philippians 4-4:7 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Bless you and your fam brother. 🤙
Bad teaching doesn't remove truth. The Holy Spirit is still very active and hasn't changed. Only people's understand of who He is and what He does has changed. I am no way associated with NAR and never got into Bethel teaching as I am very discerning of teaching. What I am getting at is do not throw the baby out with the bath water because of man's failure to walk it out. God is still moving as He always has, it's not new. We changed, got more independent of Him and are building our own kingdoms. So we are either hyper charismatics or cessationalist both are of men and not of God, He is always found in the middle, in the cleft.
I like this... you put into words exactly what I feel. My church is somewhere in the middle but I find we are sometimes one step away from going overboard. The other day my pastor made this comment, “Not every thing you experience in church is going to be found biblically!” I cringed 😬 when he said that. The Bible gives us an example of what are gatherings should look like. Paul even goes as far as to correct the inappropriate use of the gift of tongues. However, my church isn’t too welcoming of questioning their theology. They say they are but you can tell they become bothered.
Thank you for this information. Let's put the word of God first in our understanding of things. It has helped me to be more careful about how much I support this group into my community.
Their response to people not having enough faith is what I heard for several years and finally got out of it indirectly by moving, had to change churches and have not heard the word of faith doctrine through it. I believe it was God's way of leading us out of unsound doctrine just like the subject of this video. Not heard of NAR until just last year by finding fine people like Alisa & others such as Justin Peters. A family member did not appreciate me listening to Mr. Peters because of the Word of Faith movement. Prayer seems the only way to hope for change in their lives. 🙏
And so I read a book titled "They call themselves Apostles" by P.J. Hanley and it was a wake-up call & just what I needed for explanation of this very real movement!
@@PSUJerseyGirl About works? The works you do save you? I have not heard that come out of Mr. Peter's mouth. I'm not real familiar with John MacArthur but have seen from people that he is an example of good Biblical teaching. Alistair Begg is one of our favorites here! Heard of him? I cannot imagine Justin Peters not being a Biblical teacher. Maybe it's a few theological issues that differ?
@@cat-bg3rv Yeah, for me he's too much of a John MacArthur lacky, and he is very much a Calvinistic and so is Peters. They say it's "grace", but what they me is predestination. They also say, if you are saved, you'll do the "works". I feel, Jesus was talking about the "fruits" not works. Now we must not sit there and do nothing. However, of course if we're saved, our actions will show it. However, with Calvinism, you will be doing nothing but "works" so that you show you are saved. Plus, he doesn't believe in the sinner's prayer or verbal repentance.
As a matter of facts Justin Peters and his co believing friends has created spiritual platform and great inpact of awareness to keep us away from this enemies of God. Amen 😢❤
The Holy Spirit is the gift giver.🕊 “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself” Luke 10:27💕
I got the connection of trying to "work things up" to the prophets of Baal in the Elijah challenge! that is what they were doing. trying harder; louder, etc.
Recently had a guy from my church come to my place wanting to anoint me, I told him no, I don't believe in the anointing as a NT believer, I'm permanently anointed with the Holy Spirit. I now believe he was trying to recruit me for the NAR's purposes, he told me he was given a ministry of recognizing special people for the Lord. Extraordinary, but this is ultimately temptation to apostate. Thanks Dawain.
Just got out of a church that taught NAR, Dominionism and Kingdom Now Theology. I just started figuring this stuff out. I know things were a little off. So with prayer, study and research the Lord allowed me to figure it out. Going through a lot of hurt right now, because I tried to address this with the p pastor and and two of his staff. Pretty much all pushback from the pastor, including hurtful things being said. All three of these doctrines go hand and hand. Please pray for me, my ex girlfriend and people I love at that church. There's so much to say here about my experience and hurt from my old church. Thank you for your work and making this video. God bless you.
According to Prophet-Apostle Bill Hamon there are three classes of Christians. 1. Those who speak in tongues and walk in present truth. 2. Those who speak in tongues, but for whatever reason, fail to walk in present truth. 3. Those who will not speak in tongues or walk in present truth. (Hamon, The Eternal Church, p 274). Understanding "present truth" is key to understanding how the NAR operates, it's teachings and practices. A suggestion to grasp "present truth" and much more, read The New Charismatics: A Concerned Voice Responds to Dangerous New Trends by Michael Moriarty (1992). Published prior to C Peter coining the name NAR, but it's about the NAR. Excellent.
Awesome interview! Where does the 7 mountain (mandate) come in? I ask because my pastor just preached on the 7 key areas Christians need to be active in. He also referenced 2 people he considered modern day apostles. Is my church leaning nar now? Is the 7 mountain thing new age, nar or both?
I got saved in my bedroom in 1991....started life with Jesus amidst a full-on cessationist youth group, and now, 33yrs later find myself in a 'NAR' church...but "NAR -4" i.e. there's a spectrum in every theological 'bent'...key is: whatever community of believers the Lord plants you in and for however long you are there, apply the 'test everything, hold fast that which is good' approach and you'll mature and glean and grow; it is inevitable. NAR certainly can't be one-size-fits-all stigma-tized like these cats have portrayed here on this episode. Bless everyone.
Hi! Thanks for the video! In a future one, could you talk more about mysticism? I’m a student worship leader at my university’s InterVarsity chapter, and I’ve come across some books on spiritual disciplines that unsettle me (the main one I’ve looked at is The Spiritual Disciplines Handbook by Adele Calhoun). Prayer, reading the Bible, and fasting are great, but the author includes other things like listening prayer, breath prayer, contemplative prayer, labyrinth prayer, etc. From what I’ve researched, a lot of these aren’t biblically based and are mostly contemplative/mystical stuff. The author has written other books about the enneagram that are also promoted on IVP (InterVarsity Press). I’d love to know your thoughts, especially on how to approach my staff about it (the most common discipline besides regular prayer and Bible study at my chapter is listening prayer). I’ve grown as a Christian by joining, but I don’t know if I’m supposed to continue to be a part of my chapter since the organization promotes these kinds of things. I’ve been in prayer about this too. Sorry if this comment was long haha 😅 God bless!
The enneagram is definitely rooted in new age mysticism. As far as I remember things like contemplative prayer etc was popular with Catholic mysticism a few years back. It sounds as if it is time to move on to a more biblically sound church
@@ifehansson2254 Thanks for your thoughts! I’m already going to a really great church. What I’m speaking of is an on campus student organization, InterVarsity, that I’m a part of.
I was part of intervarsity as well and it also played a large part in growing my faith. i have been thinking about some of the mystical things that made it's way into the organization. i do wonder about that
@@birds_and_sparrows Update: I made the decision to leave InterVarsity altogether after stepping down as a leader. It was a hard thing to do for me, but I’m glad I did it, as I’m more aware of these unbiblical things creeping in.
Apostle is a 'sent out one' the Latin word for that is missus where we get missionary. There are modern day apostles (not the nar scripture overriding ones) but people who go found churches where none exist. Ironic that most nar apostles don't leave any church.
From GOTQUESTIONS.ORG During the first century of the church, there was an office of apostle and there was a spiritual gift of apostle. The office or position of apostle was held by the 12 disciples of Jesus plus Matthias, who took Judas’ place, and Paul. Those who held the office or position of apostle were chosen specifically by Christ (Mark 3:16-19). The replacement for Judas is seen in Acts 1:20-26. Note in this passage that Judas' position was called an office. It should also be noted that Paul was chosen by Christ (1 Corinthians 15:8-9; Galatians 1:1; 2:6-9). These men were given the task of setting up the foundation of the church. It should be understood that it was for the universal church that these men were a part of the foundation (Ephesians 2:20). The foundation of the church (universal church) was laid in the first century. This is why the office of apostle is no longer functioning.
EXACTLY!! True apostles go out and set up new churches (congregations) in new areas. People gifted in doing this is considered to have apostolic gifts.
@@JewandGreek I have to agree. Going from one heresy, NAR/hyper charismania, to another, Calvinism isn't the answer. Calvin was violent and in error. Read up on him....
The question is, when did the apostolic office and prophetic gifts cease? And, was it God's will that it ceased or was it the result of the Church quenching, grieving, and blaspheming the Holy Spirit? Paul, Timothy, Titus, and Philemon weren't original apostles, and Paul wrote about the offices in Ephesians 4 and the gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 -14 for the perfecting of the Saints until we grow into the full image of Christ. If the Church was already perfect it wouldn't need the offices or gifts. Personally, I've had dozens of documented dreams, visions, and words come to pass including dreaming scripture in answer to prayer. Lastly, I need to warn you not to speak negative about things you haven't experienced or know nothing about. Which is what the Pharisees did in Matthew 12 when Jesus addressed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Only God can make you an Apostle- The way you received your Apostle was totally out of order Man doesn't have power Its a much greater responsibility of an Apostle ca)Ed. Appointed and anointed-
Believers today are not called to follow orthodox Christianity, historical Christianity or denominational Christianity - but we are called to follow biblical Christianity which means building our faith on what the Bible says and not on what history said or on what a particular denomination says. If the criteria mentioned in Acts 1 are all that’s needed to be an apostle then how did Paul become one. If writing Scripture and all the other criteria cessationists often cite are necessary to become an apostle then how did Barnabas become one (Acts 14:14). Hmm, how ironic that those who champion the sufficiency of Scripture are themselves building their faith on human history, personal experiences and denominational biases instead of the very Scripture.
Can someone explain to all of the people how the wealthiest “most prosperous “ are not believers. They appear to be the truly blessed by the prosperity gospel leaders. We are called to serve, take care of widows and orphans, anyone unable to care for themselves. Ummm……. Nope! Many believers that are wealthy use it for their own pleasure and out of their riches give to the church. Unlike the widows’ offering of two mites which was all she had. The Word says she gave more than the rich. Reconcile that.
How do we explain this scripture ? Ephesians 4: 11 “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:”…..We have pastor , evangelists, teachers but ignore the others. There can also be abuse done by pastors, evangelists, teachers. Maybe misunderstanding and pride could be part of the problem.
So does he believe there are no apostles alive today. The bible says apostles prophets evangelist pastors and teachers until we know and see face to face. No and Iam not a NAR. I am a simple bible believing Christian.
Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God-this is your true and proper worship. that is worship not singing
The 5 fold ministry is important but misunderstood. We treat them like titles when they are more like verbs. Apostles are people who apostle and prophets are people who prophecy. We need people to do these things in the body not use them on their business cards.
I too thought this was the next level in God; going higher and deeper in the Lord. wow! such deception and I believe the Lord showed me this is the great falling away.
Ok, so there is nothing wrong praying for a child to be razed up. This is not dangerous or hurtful, this is a good thing that is close to the the heart of the lord.
What about Acts 14:14? 14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard what was happening, they tore their clothing in dismay and ran out among the people, shouting, 15 “Friends,[b] why are you doing this? We are merely human beings-just like you! We have come to bring you the Good News that you should turn from these worthless things and turn to the living God, who made heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them.
Thanks for this interview. This was such a blessing and answered many questions I've had for a while. But why do I have to pay for bonus material? How is this biblical? What makes me paying through patreon any different than that type of manipulation in church. I have to pay for extra blessing?😢 Please correct me if I'm wrong.
If you go to the Fighting For The Faith site and search in the archive (January 7, 2020) there's an audio version/ podcast of a critique of Bentley's "inauguration" (?) with several other "prophets" presiding. Funnily enough, I just listened to that same podcast today. Hope that helps.
This is called spiritual narcissism. “A new level, a new anointing, a new prophetic word from the Lord, a new revelation, a new experience such a a special encounter, gift or knowledge is all rooted in grandiose spiritual narcissism. It is the same kind of narcissistic spirit that caused many of the false prophecies predicting Trumps reelection and is destroying our witness. It is a dangerous type of mysticism that causes a crack right through the Body of Christ. The flock has been manipulated and led astray. It is all about power and money and there is no doubt that the NAR is exactly what scripture warns about that many will deceive even the elect. Bill Johnson, Jeremiah Johnson, Todd Bentley, Scott White and now Francis Chan are doing incredible damage to the Body of Christ. It must stop!
Invention of early 20th century Pentecostalism along with Mormonism and JW are the best religions ever invented since wheel. Charismatics ate the best. In this cult you not only be healthy and wealthy but also have entertainment on Sunday that you call 'worship'. I will drink to that!
Jesus never said, "I feel like God is saying this to me..." "IT IS WRITTEN" The lack of Biblical literacy and discernment is staggering in modern day western televangelicalism! Thank you for all you do Alisa and Dawain
when Jesus said it is written he was always correcting someone, that does not nullify that FACT that God speaks to His people, always has and always will.
I attended an NAR church from 2000, to 2004. They were tied closely to Redding and Bill Johnson. Those 4 years were rough. The amount of manipulation, spiritual abuse, favoritism of some members vs. Cold hearted judgment of others, and the twisting or disregard for scripture, it was all there, and deeply hurtful. We left that church because we were being manipulated to do as we were told, and harshly judged and ostracized when we questioned them. They spoke constantly about being in Relationship with one another, but that only meant that you were IN if you followed them blindly. All questions or hesitancy were judged as disloyal and spiritual blindness. I know that it was the hand of Jesus that led us out of there and I am forever grateful to Him.
Hey thanks for posting. My husband and I had almost the same word for word experience at a NAR church. Needless to say we were not the favored ones 😂 thank you God for that! Rejection and abuse became God’s tools to discipline our butts back to the truth. It’s encouraging to hear I’m not alone.
I had a similar experience with a group of people involved in this movement. Shocked by the anger and rejection I received for asking a question to try to understand.
I was in a mega church that had ties to the NAR. They used to call those goosebumps “godbumps”. I have been looking for a new church since leaving the mega church, but I still haven’t found one that actually believes that the Bible means what it says. Update: Still looking
It’s not easy to find one. Find one that stays close to the Bible, that teaches the whole council of God. After years of looking, I’ve found either a solid Baptist church or a Calvary Chapel church. The ones online if you can’t find one that are solid is Jack Hibbs, Barry Stagner, Greg Laurie, or Gary Hamrick. Also Billy Crone “Get A Life” teaches really good studies of religions, cults, and occults. He gets in the weeds on questionable churches and tests them to the Word of God. As an ex-Catholic, I found these studies eye opening. NAR is another false teaching that is destroying many, Billy Crone also does a study on them too.
Two things I am sure of; Number 1: if anyone tells you that a Christian must be poor and sick, he and also satan is lying to you! Number 2: When people call other people "false teachers" you must scrutinize them too! There is normally a snake in the grass! They are trying to brainwash you into believing their own false doctrine by making such statements! They are trying to force their own beliefs onto you! Most people who call others "false preachers" are actually promoting their own false Sickness and Poverty Gospel. Satan hates you and he always wants you to be sick and to live in misery and poverty! Therefore he cunningly uses false teachers in sheep clothing to make UA-cam videos where they call others "false teachers" and they then promote their own demonic false "gospel" of Cessationism! Cessationism is the false Sickness and Poverty Gospel and it is brainwashing millions of people in these last days! Cessationism teaches that "God does not actually want to heal you nor does He want you to be blessed and prosperous!" At it's core, this false Cessationism"gospel" is about sickness and poverty but it masquerades in sheep's clothing by always pointing fingers at others! It teaches that "God only heals a few rare people and only when He feels like it. That is a lie from the pit of Hell. God loves you! It also teaches that It is good to be poor and suffering but to be successful and prosperous is bad! These are also lies from the pit of hell! If anyone spreads this false gospel, he is spreading a lie! Satan is behind the Sickness and Poverty Gospel of Cessationism! Cessationism is the bad news gospel! It is bad news to the poor and it is bad news to the sick! Let me share the real Good News of Jesus Christ with you: Jesus Christ loves you! He wants to save and bless you because God loves you! He died and was whipped and crucified for you! He died to save, heal and to prosper you! 3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. God does not want to see His children suffering in poverty, He wants to prosper them: Psalms 35:27 "Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favor my righteous cause: yes, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which has pleasure in the prosperity of his servant." The true Gospel of Jesus Christ brings Good news and God's blessings to the poor and to the lost sinner and also to the sick, it brings healing, joy and peace. God is love and He is a good God! He cares about you and about your loved ones! He wants to save and bless you! Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach the Good News to the poor; he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised," God cares about the sinner, the sick and the poor! God loves you!
Ok but the laying on of hands is very Biblical... plus or in addition to this, do you then not believe in Miracles and healing.... so you are saying God can't heal someone? Not that I'm a fan of NAR- but I think there are some key components that are being skirted. Just my thoughts... I am from a UPC back ground. I left legalism, but I have not walked away from the power of God through the in filing of the Holy Spirit..... again what I see is a lot of evangelicals have a wonderful knowledge of the word but man are you missing out on the supernatural side of God and vice versa-- Pentecostals are in tuned with the the supernatural side of God, but need more of the word... just my perspective though
This got me thinking, how can you know you are in tune with the supernatural without first being in tune with the natural, otherwise you don’t really know the true nature and charachter of God at all 🤔
exactly, im so against the NAR but I will never deny the power of the Holy Spirit, He has healed me from uncurable diseases. and is so real in my life. pursuing an intimacy with Jesus will answer many questions, people like to follow what others say only and rationalize God. We have to test with the word and also have faith that He didn’t stop being God after revelation. People in persecution in other parts of the world know this, Americans will soon learn this too. this reductionistic view of God, neglects His sovereignty. not everyone will get healed, not everyone will not get their healing. God knows what’s best for each and to glorify Him. He is no atm blessing transaction machine. He is GOD. and will do as He wants.
Thank you Lord for keeping Juan in your loving arms and ask that you meet Juan's needs & that your peace and strength will help Juan in any situation. Amen 🙏
This has all the look of the Faith movement - Prosperity stuff. I was bamboozled by this stuff when I was new to the faith. Older Christians were really into it in my Bible study times - therefore, so was I. The Bible, plus a practical lesson about how untrue these beliefs were is what showed me I was on the wrong track. My hubby lost his job in the mid 80s, when I was part of this stuff. I followed the teaching, mustering up the faith they said I needed for hubby to get the job he was interviewing for. He didn’t get it and I was mad at God. I calmed down, after crying and telling God how unfair He was when I followed all the directions and had lots of faith, I figured He should have answered my prayer . A thought crossed my mind, right out of left field that asked - “Well, whose will did you want to be done?” It stopped me in my tracks and I had to say, “well, I guess mine”. I knew what the Lord’s prayer said at least. It was a sorely needed lesson I never forgot after that. God is calling the shots, not me. After going through 8 years of unemployment, hubby going back to school, numerous adventures with God during that time, and seeing He really did know better than me, that He could be trusted and His Word is the road map I need to follow to keep on the right way . Valuable lesson that was worth it all!
The church I left a few years ago was heavily steeped in the teachings of Bethel and hillsong, jesus culture ect... in fact all of the guest speakers at our church and the youth conference they called purpose conference was stemmed from these churches. I ended up there simply because I moved from my home state. And I was trying to find a new church. And I didnt want to be a "church hopper". So I kept going, until I couldn't take it anymore. There was no gospel. It was all self help. And they preached that if you didnt make a lot of money you weren't doing your part for Christ. Once after church I was waiting for my daughter to come out, she was serving in childrens ministry. I overheard a new congregant telling someone who was deep in the church that he was excited because he was a recovering addict and found Christ. The deep in the church guy responded by bragging to this kid who is barely getting it together that he just bought this huge brand new house on the hill. And had room for his big boat and cars ect.... he went on and on about how important it is to have stuff! I was embarrassed for him. And appalled to be honest. But not at all surprised because it's exactly what this church stood on. I felt released in my soul when I finally left. Part of what kept me longer than i wanted was my daughter. She always said how much she enjoyed youth. Turns out she hated it and was trying to convince herself.
Hi Sister,Ecclesiastes 1:9 says that there is "nothing new under the sun". I am reading a book from an old RC monk,John Micheal Talbot,who was prominent in the late 60s early 70s Jesus Movement,and he said that there was so much crazy cultish churches being,born out of this,which got him running to Catholicism. This stuff reminds me of this crazy heretical stuff from50 60 years ago. We are watching some FAI,and other stuff atm,and find it helpful to our faith. God bless you and have a great day from Brisbane Australia 🇦🇺🇦🇺
@@stevenrichardson4659 so he ran from so called cultish stuff to the biggest cult of all Catholicism. Lol man people just get back to reading your bibles. So having Mary carry your prayers to God isn't cultish lol.
@@stevenrichardson4659 dont mock the man who just called out the Catholic church. He just did everyone a huge favor by standing up and posting that. If you yourself have been led astray and deceived into thinking that the Catholic church is teaching the truth, then you are not grounded in the word and have been "cultured" into a church system. Jesus knows YOU but he wants you to know HIM.
Seeing Wagner was a Knight of Malta. Levels is a must in everyone of the secret orders.Freemasonry, Jesuits etc. you can see where the structure was fashioned. Read their joining oaths whilst you check it out. Then question what they are really trying to achieve.
The part about the burden to show that you’ve gone up to another spiritual level is real. It was a painful experience to be told by my prophetic leader that I had been in decline for 6 months, while I was 6 months pregnant (clearly increasing, not in decline). It crushed me, it hurt me, and it shared to open my eyes. And to be told when I asked my leader a simple question, “I have discerning of spirits and I know which spirit you are operating from”. Then when I left her group, she distances me because her time is valuable and she only gives a lot of time to the people in her group because they are her responsibility. To go from being in that group to now being on the other side is just ugly. It’s a weird mafia-type thing. Very sad.
I am a minister and was 15 years part of a network of a so called apostolic network here in europe under the oversight of one of big names in this new apostolic network . I left them because I could not believe what’s going on there .
Thank you for this podcast. I am a Pastor’s wife and am praying for some of those we know leave to attend a “Bethel “affiliated church. It breaks my heart and they refuse to hear any warnings, given in love. I am sad see them go from a Word centered church to an based NAR church.
The olive wake up ‘worked up ‘ days of demanding prayer reminded me of the Baal priests ,
Hi Alisa, I began listening to your podcast this week, and I’m really enjoying it. I have been a born-again Christian for 48 years. It saddens my heart when I see churches changing in ways that do not agree with true Biblical Christianity. Thank you for addressing some of these issues. Both my husband and I are enjoying listening and learning. Lord bless you as you continue in His Work.
If you want to hear the God speak, read the Bible. If you want to hear Him speak audibly, read it out loud.
Yo this is perfect haha
Amen amen amen
Defo the best foundation for hearing God, no matter ur doctrine.. 💯
Works every time
James Trotter do you actually believe that comment by JP is some sort of Wisdom. What would it sound like if you spoke it out loud in the voice of Donald Duck. What would that say about God. Would that be O.K. would that man that God is a duck. Just asking?
If your belief system has a hierarchy, RUN.
If you’re a Christian and someone is telling you there’s a hierarchy among believers in the eyes of God, RUN.
Nothing good has ever come out of placing one person over another in terms of who receives God’s love or blessing or favor more. To the one uplifted, it inflates their arrogance. To the one cast down, it destroys them with despair.
There was hierarchy in the church from day 1. There's hierarchy in the Kingdom of God. There's hierarchy in nature. The question is if the higher-ups are lording over the rest, or serving them in love.
Dawain your humility is so refreshing. Thank you for sharing.
Those "chills"/"goosebumps" were a huge stumbling block for me.
I genuinely believed that those came from being in God's presence and that whenever I didn't feel them, God wasn't near or I wasn't near Him.
I now know that those came because of how excited and euphoric I was after being saved and born again.
I mostly felt them in the "Honeymoon Phase" of my Salvation and I still get them now but not as much because nowadays the feeling isn't as much a euphoria for God, it has become more of a mature love and reverence for Him.
Anybody can have chills / goosebumps... it's emotional / physiological / brain chemicals etc. Athiests get the chills/goosebumps. It's not bad, but neither does it mean you're hearing/feeling the divine/God.
I recently left a church like this and you are right, these teachings do put a burden on you. I’m so grateful to God that He helped me to see the truth and come out of that deception. It feels like a literal weight has come off of me. It is a very deceptive teaching that seems to be focused on God, but in reality it is focused on self.
How did you finally get out? How long were you in it? My mom has been brainwashed into the NAR and I am constantly arguing with her over this. Can you give any advice as to how I can help her? Should I just leave her alone and stop saying anything?
@@lonewulf1922 I was going to this particular church for 4 years. I never fully felt comfortable at the church, but was taught to “submit to the teaching” and that I was “afraid of what the spirit wanted to do”. So my true beliefs didn’t actually line up with NAR, but I thought that the NAR was correct…if that makes sense. I think it was a process over time to realize and come back to my true beliefs that I had held since I was saved. What helped me a lot was watching a Mike Winger video on UA-cam where he talked about NAR and Word of Faith and these different groups and then contradicted their teachings with biblical truth. Listening to his videos made me realize that my beliefs had always actually lined up with what he was saying, which was also why I never felt comfortable at that church. I honestly think the Lord was helping me to come out of the deception, because I had seen previous videos years before speaking against NAR and I couldn’t receive it, I would just get offended. I would say that you could try to share some resources or videos, but the most important thing is to pray. Pray for wisdom and discernment and that the Lord would open her eyes.
Agree 100%
Other helpful teachers are Chris Rosebrough @ Fighting 4 The Faith and Pirate Christian Media, Steve and Paulette Kozar @ The Messed Up Church, and Dan and Robin Long @ Long4Truth, all on UA-cam. And of course, Justin Peters.
@@lonewulf1922 ohh Samuel , dear me have you got a problem. I’m serious you see your mother will honestly think she is being persecuted for her belief . Because she can’t differentiate , and is unaware of the Theological subtleties. It really “Christian Buddhism” and it’s so devious the way it has crept in . Just pray 🙏 that she is released from this Christian Buddhism. People are getting aroused and clapping at songs that are error eg..”Is there an Ancient Anointing rising from the ground . This is Samsara Buddhism and for years they try to smuggle it in . So if you told your mother she had become a Christian Buddhist she would feel offended. There is only one five fold ministry Ephesians 4. Not an extra special one as they intimate . It’s just a resurgence of failed Torontoism. Anything to add to the Gospel as an accoutrement. To get away from the Word. It is man focussed . A Social Gospel to draw Saints away from the word . Presently it is Covering/Safeguarding in order to distract from the Word . A Social Gospel and people are losing their grasp on the Word of God. Just pray and ask the Lord to show you what to do and say.
So good. Very informed guest! Thank you, Alisa, for always being so gracious to your guests and letting them speak without a lot of interruption!
I struggle to listen to Justin Peters. I can’t get past the tone that wreaks of mockery to me. If people are in error, Jesus wants to restore them to right fellowship with Him. We should be grieved and praying for them, even as we call out things that are against The Bible.
I absolutely agree with you. ‘The tone that wreaks of mockery’. It makes me so uncomfortable, I will NOT listen to him. I AM grateful to have found a few channels that discuss these very important things respectfully.
So right. I totally agree. Peace to you
TOTALLY AGREE.
Satire works for me. What the NAR do is antichristian/ satanic. Peters is in the John McArthur " club" with a very hard and mockery way of preaching about non biblical churches. It sound very harsh. Again using satire but in such important issue as the false churc a more humble aproach would perhaps be more profesional than mock follower of the Prosperity "church" and make lots of fun out of it. Dont sit well with me as it might sound prideful : the Grace commity is superior. Not a humble approach for sure.
Discernment is needed
Since Cancel Culture is real, you might want to head over to Locals, and get your videos uploaded to a dedicated website, that is overseas, like Iceland, Netherlands, Switzerland and some other countries. Because these countries and some companies don't care about US Law and in particular Iceland has laws on the books that help prevents a content creator for being deplatform. I plan to move all my websites and start doing videos again, on a dedicated website. Sure, cost much more money. But it is a nice back up, just in case UA-cam goes full 1984.
Good advice
I’m I you I’ll
I love when he said "The key to deception is emotion" - that's key. Jezebel evil spirit.
When he was talking about the nar prophets coming up with new revelations to get people to forget the old ones that didn't pass it reminds me of Deuteronomy 18:20-22
Thank you for this. Always great to be aware of the danger infiltrating the Church🙏
Sooooo good!! God bless you two!
This was so helpful, especially after leaving an NAR church which I grew up in.
Dawain, your openness, honesty, and humility is greatly appreciated. Alisa, as always, great interview!
Admitting the burden is amazing. I keep telling supposed apostles and prophets that their burden is unbiblical, Jesus says, "my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Why weigh yourself down with that responsibility, which I would argue is sin?
The Bible never said there aren't prophets anymore also there are lots and lots of prophets in Africa who prophesy and do miracles and wonders.
@@kofizayn6077 Scripture says, "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away."
Jesus also says, "[M]any will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"
So scripture does say prophecy will cease and there are prophets and exorcists going to hell.
Please seriously consider Scripture before responding.
@@velociray Either it doesn't say there are no more prophets it just says there will also be fake ones. Also in Africa there are lots and lots of prophets in Africa who prophesy and do miracles and wonders like prophet passion Java, prophet obofour, prophet obinim, prophet omoto Jeremiah or prophet edd Branson and lots and lots of and lots of prophets in Africa who do miracles and wonders.
You two covered a number of excellent issues that I wasn't expecting from the title of this video - glad I watched the whole thing!
I'm an atheist but let me say God bless you for covering this, NAR is seriously scary.
yeah definitely scary! that's something we can agree on for sure! ty for your kind comment❤ :)
God doesnt believe in atheists. Just sayin
@@angeloantonio5483 Don’t just say things. Pray for people before speaking your mind.
Watch some he’ll testimonies you won’t stay an aethiest for long. Repent ! Just because there are wolves in the church doesn’t mean you don’t have to repent ..
My husband and I just started two weeks ago going to Harvest church. We have been at evangelical church for a bit and love the people but felt not a lot passion in worship. Well… the service worship at Harvest is so lively emotional experience, we LOVED IT. Then on news letter just to get to know church reading it and saw quote from TD Jakes and then Bill Johnson and red flags came up. Then noticed also they have SOZO Ministry not knowing last night what it is. Seems so unscriptural and new age ?!
Sorry jumping all over just found this all out last night ! That Bethel churches into Firetunnel and grave soaking ?! Also seems very new age and not scriptural.
Now really concerned about going to this church and when I pointed this out to my husband who is usually very balance Christian and he uncharacteristically got very angry and said
Well I’m going whether you go or not. 😢
There is something weird going on ? Been praying 🙏 a lot of the night about this. And of course crash course all this stuff since yesterday evening and now watching ex NAR leaders renounce this style church. Never before payed attention to this. I guess Gods got me getting versed quickly ✝️
If it doesn't feel right definitely don't dismiss that. Dig deeper and find answers. Im currently doing so much research and it's so crazy to me that no one is talking about this. How is it going now? Did you stay at the church?
I’m curious about Michael Yousef, his church is Church of the Apostles. But, he is a straightforward Bible teacher, I listen to his preaching and I love it. He does not mince words.
Michael Yousef walks the line of progressive teaching and worse Zionism. I do believe is a Christian, but the celebrity I think is getting to him in a negative way, similar to what is happening Max Lucado.
Working things up always reminds me of the prophets of Ba al at their altars vs Elijah and his calmness.
Americans are good at hyping things up but the anointing is real and tangible, and should be respected
I experienced this while attending Church Of God In Christ aka COGIC.
TBN was my first church also, it was a huge blessing as a new Christian, that was over 20 years ago, i remember watching TBN tell 4:00 AM, the best teachers where on after midnight 😊
Many will be deceived, by those that come in his Name ( could be “ anointed Christians, Apostles, etc. )
Remember Jesus said “Depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you!”
To the very people performing miracles in Jesus Name
This video couldn’t have shown up at a better time. My girlfriends daughters dad Takes the girls to his church every other weekend and every other Wednesday and this is the garbage that’s being taught in their nondenominational church. We are working with the girls to show them the differences between our church and their dad’s church and we just hope and pray that the lightbulb comes on.
2 verses for you bro that help me and my parenting if you see this Proverbs 14:29
Whoever is patient has great understanding,
but one who is quick tempered displays folly.
Philippians 4-4:7
Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Bless you and your fam brother. 🤙
Bad teaching doesn't remove truth. The Holy Spirit is still very active and hasn't changed. Only people's understand of who He is and what He does has changed. I am no way associated with NAR and never got into Bethel teaching as I am very discerning of teaching. What I am getting at is do not throw the baby out with the bath water because of man's failure to walk it out. God is still moving as He always has, it's not new. We changed, got more independent of Him and are building our own kingdoms. So we are either hyper charismatics or cessationalist both are of men and not of God, He is always found in the middle, in the cleft.
Preach !!!
Amen!
I like this... you put into words exactly what I feel. My church is somewhere in the middle but I find we are sometimes one step away from going overboard. The other day my pastor made this comment, “Not every thing you experience in church is going to be found biblically!” I cringed 😬 when he said that. The Bible gives us an example of what are gatherings should look like. Paul even goes as far as to correct the inappropriate use of the gift of tongues. However, my church isn’t too welcoming of questioning their theology. They say they are but you can tell they become bothered.
Yess ! Lol Amen
Amen
Thank you for this information. Let's put the word of God first in our understanding of things. It has helped me to be more careful about how much I support this group into my community.
Their response to people not having enough faith is what I heard for several years and finally got out of it indirectly by moving, had to change churches and have not heard the word of faith doctrine through it. I believe it was God's way of leading us out of unsound doctrine just like the subject of this video. Not heard of NAR until just last year by finding fine people like Alisa & others such as Justin Peters. A family member did not appreciate me listening to Mr. Peters because of the Word of Faith movement. Prayer seems the only way to hope for change in their lives. 🙏
And so I read a book titled "They call themselves Apostles" by P.J. Hanley and it was a wake-up call & just what I needed for explanation of this very real movement!
Justin Peters is a hidden Calvinist. I used to listen to him, but he's not bibical either. He and John MacArthurs are about works, disguised as works.
@@PSUJerseyGirl About works? The works you do save you? I have not heard that come out of Mr. Peter's mouth. I'm not real familiar with John MacArthur but have seen from people that he is an example of good Biblical teaching. Alistair Begg is one of our favorites here! Heard of him? I cannot imagine Justin Peters not being a Biblical teacher. Maybe it's a few theological issues that differ?
@@cat-bg3rv Yeah, for me he's too much of a John MacArthur lacky, and he is very much a Calvinistic and so is Peters. They say it's "grace", but what they me is predestination. They also say, if you are saved, you'll do the "works". I feel, Jesus was talking about the "fruits" not works.
Now we must not sit there and do nothing. However, of course if we're saved, our actions will show it. However, with Calvinism, you will be doing nothing but "works" so that you show you are saved. Plus, he doesn't believe in the sinner's prayer or verbal repentance.
As a matter of facts Justin Peters and his co believing friends has created spiritual platform and great inpact of awareness to keep us away from this enemies of God. Amen 😢❤
Off topic but I met my husband on MySpace too! Lol 10 years this March!
Congratulations 💐
Awesome! We celebrate 13 years in July!
I need that Basic Saved Package!! 🙌
I definitely heard from God to stay far away from NAR
Me too❤
5th level sounds like Roman Catholic mystics who know the 'deep' things of God, which you may not find in scripture.
👀 👀 👀
When the decree and declare my Holy Spirit is like no no no
The Holy Spirit is the gift giver.🕊
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself” Luke 10:27💕
I got the connection of trying to "work things up" to the prophets of Baal in the Elijah challenge! that is what they were doing. trying harder; louder, etc.
Can you do a video about The Last Reformation movement as well??? Seems very similar.
just launched the video and listening to it! :)) Alisa, I love your intro - simple, neat, direct, short - BEAUTIFULY DONE! :-)
Recently had a guy from my church come to my place wanting to anoint me, I told him no, I don't believe in the anointing as a NT believer, I'm permanently anointed with the Holy Spirit. I now believe he was trying to recruit me for the NAR's purposes, he told me he was given a ministry of recognizing special people for the Lord. Extraordinary, but this is ultimately temptation to apostate.
Thanks Dawain.
I live in Greenville SC and I use to attend Redemption. I was always very leary of the apostle terminology.
@32:00 the talkig about levels is actually about New Age instruction that has crept into the church.
Being called a apostle doesn't mean you are! The true apostles built the foundation and their all with the Father ✝️🙏
Just got out of a church that taught NAR, Dominionism and Kingdom Now Theology. I just started figuring this stuff out. I know things were a little off. So with prayer, study and research the Lord allowed me to figure it out. Going through a lot of hurt right now, because I tried to address this with the p pastor and and two of his staff. Pretty much all pushback from the pastor, including hurtful things being said. All three of these doctrines go hand and hand. Please pray for me, my ex girlfriend and people I love at that church. There's so much to say here about my experience and hurt from my old church. Thank you for your work and making this video. God bless you.
They actually said they weren’t going to serve God anymore that now God is going to be serving them @ open Door in Bourlson Texas
Talk about this .......
The reason that the Church is separated from each other !!!
According to Prophet-Apostle Bill Hamon there are three classes of Christians. 1. Those who speak in tongues and walk in present truth. 2. Those who speak in tongues, but for whatever reason, fail to walk in present truth. 3. Those who will not speak in tongues or walk in present truth. (Hamon, The Eternal Church, p 274). Understanding "present truth" is key to understanding how the NAR operates, it's teachings and practices. A suggestion to grasp "present truth" and much more, read The New Charismatics: A Concerned Voice Responds to Dangerous New Trends by Michael Moriarty (1992). Published prior to C Peter coining the name NAR, but it's about the NAR. Excellent.
Do you have a video where you talk about grave soaking that Bethel as promoted or done ?
Awesome interview! Where does the 7 mountain (mandate) come in? I ask because my pastor just preached on the 7 key areas Christians need to be active in. He also referenced 2 people he considered modern day apostles. Is my church leaning nar now? Is the 7 mountain thing new age, nar or both?
I got saved in my bedroom in 1991....started life with Jesus amidst a full-on cessationist youth group, and now, 33yrs later find myself in a 'NAR' church...but "NAR -4" i.e. there's a spectrum in every theological 'bent'...key is: whatever community of believers the Lord plants you in and for however long you are there, apply the 'test everything, hold fast that which is good' approach and you'll mature and glean and grow; it is inevitable. NAR certainly can't be one-size-fits-all stigma-tized like these cats have portrayed here on this episode. Bless everyone.
I can see connecting point between Roman Catholicism and nar .
Alisa, may I use 50sec of your clip to teach what is NAR in my channel？
Hi! Thanks for the video! In a future one, could you talk more about mysticism? I’m a student worship leader at my university’s InterVarsity chapter, and I’ve come across some books on spiritual disciplines that unsettle me (the main one I’ve looked at is The Spiritual Disciplines Handbook by Adele Calhoun). Prayer, reading the Bible, and fasting are great, but the author includes other things like listening prayer, breath prayer, contemplative prayer, labyrinth prayer, etc. From what I’ve researched, a lot of these aren’t biblically based and are mostly contemplative/mystical stuff. The author has written other books about the enneagram that are also promoted on IVP (InterVarsity Press). I’d love to know your thoughts, especially on how to approach my staff about it (the most common discipline besides regular prayer and Bible study at my chapter is listening prayer). I’ve grown as a Christian by joining, but I don’t know if I’m supposed to continue to be a part of my chapter since the organization promotes these kinds of things. I’ve been in prayer about this too. Sorry if this comment was long haha 😅 God bless!
The enneagram is definitely rooted in new age mysticism. As far as I remember things like contemplative prayer etc was popular with Catholic mysticism a few years back. It sounds as if it is time to move on to a more biblically sound church
@@ifehansson2254 Thanks for your thoughts! I’m already going to a really great church. What I’m speaking of is an on campus student organization, InterVarsity, that I’m a part of.
I was part of intervarsity as well and it also played a large part in growing my faith. i have been thinking about some of the mystical things that made it's way into the organization. i do wonder about that
@@birds_and_sparrows Update: I made the decision to leave InterVarsity altogether after stepping down as a leader. It was a hard thing to do for me, but I’m glad I did it, as I’m more aware of these unbiblical things creeping in.
Yup it's official the mother had to come to terms that her daughter died and had to beried her in Dec 2019 wow
Apostle is a 'sent out one' the Latin word for that is missus where we get missionary. There are modern day apostles (not the nar scripture overriding ones) but people who go found churches where none exist. Ironic that most nar apostles don't leave any church.
From GOTQUESTIONS.ORG
During the first century of the church, there was an office of apostle and there was a spiritual gift of apostle. The office or position of apostle was held by the 12 disciples of Jesus plus Matthias, who took Judas’ place, and Paul. Those who held the office or position of apostle were chosen specifically by Christ (Mark 3:16-19). The replacement for Judas is seen in Acts 1:20-26. Note in this passage that Judas' position was called an office. It should also be noted that Paul was chosen by Christ (1 Corinthians 15:8-9; Galatians 1:1; 2:6-9). These men were given the task of setting up the foundation of the church. It should be understood that it was for the universal church that these men were a part of the foundation (Ephesians 2:20). The foundation of the church (universal church) was laid in the first century. This is why the office of apostle is no longer functioning.
EXACTLY!! True apostles go out and set up new churches (congregations) in new areas. People gifted in doing this is considered to have apostolic gifts.
@@velociray GotQ is cessationist/Calvinist
@@JewandGreek Yes, they are very biblically grounded.
@@JewandGreek I have to agree. Going from one heresy, NAR/hyper charismania, to another, Calvinism isn't the answer. Calvin was violent and in error. Read up on him....
Woe is he who calls himself and not assigned by God-
You mean don’t sing I SURRENDER ALL right before the offering?!! 🤣🤣
The question is, when did the apostolic office and prophetic gifts cease? And, was it God's will that it ceased or was it the result of the Church quenching, grieving, and blaspheming the Holy Spirit?
Paul, Timothy, Titus, and Philemon weren't original apostles, and Paul wrote about the offices in Ephesians 4 and the gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 -14 for the perfecting of the Saints until we grow into the full image of Christ. If the Church was already perfect it wouldn't need the offices or gifts.
Personally, I've had dozens of documented dreams, visions, and words come to pass including dreaming scripture in answer to prayer.
Lastly, I need to warn you not to speak negative about things you haven't experienced or know nothing about. Which is what the Pharisees did in Matthew 12 when Jesus addressed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Only God can make you an Apostle- The way you received your Apostle was totally out of order Man doesn't have power Its a much greater responsibility of an Apostle ca)Ed. Appointed and anointed-
Believers today are not called to follow orthodox Christianity, historical Christianity or denominational Christianity - but we are called to follow biblical Christianity which means building our faith on what the Bible says and not on what history said or on what a particular denomination says. If the criteria mentioned in Acts 1 are all that’s needed to be an apostle then how did Paul become one. If writing Scripture and all the other criteria cessationists often cite are necessary to become an apostle then how did Barnabas become one (Acts 14:14). Hmm, how ironic that those who champion the sufficiency of Scripture are themselves building their faith on human history, personal experiences and denominational biases instead of the very Scripture.
Yes higher than a pastor
I used to hear one guy refer to a”fresh word from God.” Like God gives words that aren’t fresh.
I think where NAR and progressive Christians meet is new age/new thought
Can someone explain to all of the people how the wealthiest “most prosperous “ are not believers. They appear to be the truly blessed by the prosperity gospel leaders.
We are called to serve, take care of widows and orphans, anyone unable to care for themselves. Ummm…….
Nope! Many believers that are wealthy use it for their own pleasure and out of their riches give to the church. Unlike the widows’ offering of two mites which was all she had. The Word says she gave more than the rich. Reconcile that.
sorry Keswick or higher life movement from the 1800s, it was all about having a second baptism of the Holy Spirit and getting completely saved
How do we explain this scripture ? Ephesians 4: 11 “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:”…..We have pastor , evangelists, teachers but ignore the others. There can also be abuse done by pastors, evangelists, teachers. Maybe misunderstanding and pride could be part of the problem.
So does he believe there are no apostles alive today. The bible says apostles prophets evangelist pastors and teachers until we know and see face to face. No and Iam not a NAR. I am a simple bible believing Christian.
The great God will expose all this fauls prophets in this end time Amen 😢
Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God-this is your true and proper worship. that is worship not singing
The 5 fold ministry is important but misunderstood. We treat them like titles when they are more like verbs. Apostles are people who apostle and prophets are people who prophecy. We need people to do these things in the body not use them on their business cards.
Alisa,please interview Joel Richardson.
I too thought this was the next level in God; going higher and deeper in the Lord. wow! such deception and I believe the Lord showed me this is the great falling away.
Ok, so there is nothing wrong praying for a child to be razed up. This is not dangerous or hurtful, this is a good thing that is close to the the heart of the lord.
What about Acts 14:14? 14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard what was happening, they tore their clothing in dismay and ran out among the people, shouting, 15 “Friends,[b] why are you doing this? We are merely human beings-just like you! We have come to bring you the Good News that you should turn from these worthless things and turn to the living God, who made heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them.
Thanks for this interview. This was such a blessing and answered many questions I've had for a while. But why do I have to pay for bonus material? How is this biblical? What makes me paying through patreon any different than that type of manipulation in church. I have to pay for extra blessing?😢 Please correct me if I'm wrong.
It’s because they think they are little gods and they aren’t accountable to anyone
NAR, and Prosperity Gospel, sounds very similar to what Coffeezilla on the MLM side of things.
Thx so much!! Trying to find the Todd Bentley becomes an apostle video he mentioned. Do you have a link?
If you go to the Fighting For The Faith site and search in the archive (January 7, 2020) there's an audio version/ podcast of a critique of Bentley's "inauguration" (?) with several other "prophets" presiding. Funnily enough, I just listened to that same podcast today. Hope that helps.
Excellent interview! Thank you
This is called spiritual narcissism. “A new level, a new anointing, a new prophetic word from the Lord, a new revelation, a new experience such a a special encounter, gift or knowledge is all rooted in grandiose spiritual narcissism. It is the same kind of narcissistic spirit that caused many of the false prophecies predicting Trumps reelection and is destroying our witness. It is a dangerous type of mysticism that causes a crack right through the Body of Christ. The flock has been manipulated and led astray. It is all about power and money and there is no doubt that the NAR is exactly what scripture warns about that many will deceive even the elect. Bill Johnson, Jeremiah Johnson, Todd Bentley, Scott White and now Francis Chan are doing incredible damage to the Body of Christ. It must stop!
Question... why Francis Chan??
Invention of early 20th century Pentecostalism along with Mormonism and JW are the best religions ever invented since wheel. Charismatics ate the best. In this cult you not only be healthy and wealthy but also have entertainment on Sunday that you call 'worship'. I will drink to that!
Did any of the actual apostles pay money for a certificate to call themselves apostles……..or did Christ appoint them ?
Jesus never said, "I feel like God is saying this to me..."
"IT IS WRITTEN"
The lack of Biblical literacy and discernment is staggering in modern day western televangelicalism! Thank you for all you do Alisa and Dawain
Amen
Amen!! Very well said! :-) :-)
It is written , and his sheep hear his voice by the holy spirit.
Wow!!! This phrase is starting to bother me in church.
when Jesus said it is written he was always correcting someone, that does not nullify that FACT that God speaks to His people, always has and always will.
I attended an NAR church from 2000, to 2004. They were tied closely to Redding and Bill Johnson. Those 4 years were rough. The amount of manipulation, spiritual abuse, favoritism of some members vs. Cold hearted judgment of others, and the twisting or disregard for scripture, it was all there, and deeply hurtful. We left that church because we were being manipulated to do as we were told, and harshly judged and ostracized when we questioned them. They spoke constantly about being in Relationship with one another, but that only meant that you were IN if you followed them blindly. All questions or hesitancy were judged as disloyal and spiritual blindness. I know that it was the hand of Jesus that led us out of there and I am forever grateful to Him.
Hey thanks for posting. My husband and I had almost the same word for word experience at a NAR church. Needless to say we were not the favored ones 😂 thank you God for that! Rejection and abuse became God’s tools to discipline our butts back to the truth. It’s encouraging to hear I’m not alone.
Amen! Same here!
I had a similar experience with a group of people involved in this movement. Shocked by the anger and rejection I received for asking a question to try to understand.
Has nothing to do with nar, just bad leadership
Sounds like the Discipleship/Shepherding movement
Cessationism is still not true.
“Hold the line and that line is Scripture!” Amen!!!
I was in a mega church that had ties to the NAR. They used to call those goosebumps “godbumps”. I have been looking for a new church since leaving the mega church, but I still haven’t found one that actually believes that the Bible means what it says.
Update: Still looking
Baptist? 😏
Look fir a house meeting with a small group.of belivers but make sure their on track with the word bless you
It’s not easy to find one. Find one that stays close to the Bible, that teaches the whole council of God. After years of looking, I’ve found either a solid Baptist church or a Calvary Chapel church. The ones online if you can’t find one that are solid is Jack Hibbs, Barry Stagner, Greg Laurie, or Gary Hamrick. Also Billy Crone “Get A Life” teaches really good studies of religions, cults, and occults. He gets in the weeds on questionable churches and tests them to the Word of God. As an ex-Catholic, I found these studies eye opening. NAR is another false teaching that is destroying many, Billy Crone also does a study on them too.
Reformed Baptist.
Two things I am sure of;
Number 1: if anyone tells you that a Christian must be poor and sick, he and also satan is lying to you!
Number 2: When people call other people "false teachers" you must scrutinize them too! There is normally a snake in the grass! They are trying to brainwash you into believing their own false doctrine by making such statements! They are trying to force their own beliefs onto you!
Most people who call others "false preachers" are actually promoting their own false Sickness and Poverty Gospel. Satan hates you and he always wants you to be sick and to live in misery and poverty! Therefore he cunningly uses false teachers in sheep clothing to make UA-cam videos where they call others "false teachers" and they then promote their own demonic false "gospel" of Cessationism! Cessationism is the false Sickness and Poverty Gospel and it is brainwashing millions of people in these last days!
Cessationism teaches that "God does not actually want to heal you nor does He want you to be blessed and prosperous!" At it's core, this false Cessationism"gospel" is about sickness and poverty but it masquerades in sheep's clothing by always pointing fingers at others! It teaches that "God only heals a few rare people and only when He feels like it. That is a lie from the pit of Hell. God loves you!
It also teaches that It is good to be poor and suffering but to be successful and prosperous is bad! These are also lies from the pit of hell! If anyone spreads this false gospel, he is spreading a lie! Satan is behind the Sickness and Poverty Gospel of Cessationism! Cessationism is the bad news gospel! It is bad news to the poor and it is bad news to the sick!
Let me share the real Good News of Jesus Christ with you:
Jesus Christ loves you! He wants to save and bless you because God loves you! He died and was whipped and crucified for you! He died to save, heal and to prosper you!
3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers.
God does not want to see His children suffering in poverty, He wants to prosper them:
Psalms 35:27
"Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favor my righteous cause: yes, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which has pleasure in the prosperity of his servant."
The true Gospel of Jesus Christ brings Good news and God's blessings to the poor and to the lost sinner and also to the sick, it brings healing, joy and peace. God is love and He is a good God! He cares about you and about your loved ones!
He wants to save and bless you!
Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach the Good News to the poor; he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"
God cares about the sinner, the sick and the poor! God loves you!
Ok but the laying on of hands is very Biblical... plus or in addition to this, do you then not believe in Miracles and healing.... so you are saying God can't heal someone? Not that I'm a fan of NAR- but I think there are some key components that are being skirted. Just my thoughts... I am from a UPC back ground. I left legalism, but I have not walked away from the power of God through the in filing of the Holy Spirit..... again what I see is a lot of evangelicals have a wonderful knowledge of the word but man are you missing out on the supernatural side of God and vice versa-- Pentecostals are in tuned with the the supernatural side of God, but need more of the word... just my perspective though
This got me thinking, how can you know you are in tune with the supernatural without first being in tune with the natural, otherwise you don’t really know the true nature and charachter of God at all 🤔
exactly, im so against the NAR but I will never deny the power of the Holy Spirit, He has healed me from uncurable diseases. and is so real in my life. pursuing an intimacy with Jesus will answer many questions, people like to follow what others say only and rationalize God. We have to test with the word and also have faith that He didn’t stop being God after revelation. People in persecution in other parts of the world know this, Americans will soon learn this too. this reductionistic view of God, neglects His sovereignty. not everyone will get healed, not everyone will not get their healing. God knows what’s best for each and to glorify Him. He is no atm blessing transaction machine. He is GOD. and will do as He wants.
@@JohannaRobles11 amen sister!
Hi please pray for me. I really need it.
Thank you so much. Please continue I really need it.
Thank you Lord for keeping Juan in your loving arms and ask that you meet Juan's needs & that your peace and strength will help Juan in any situation. Amen 🙏
praying 4 u
Stand fast on the holy word of God
This has all the look of the Faith movement - Prosperity stuff. I was bamboozled by this stuff when I was new to the faith. Older Christians were really into it in my Bible study times - therefore, so was I. The Bible, plus a practical lesson about how untrue these beliefs were is what showed me I was on the wrong track. My hubby lost his job in the mid 80s, when I was part of this stuff. I followed the teaching, mustering up the faith they said I needed for hubby to get the job he was interviewing for. He didn’t get it and I was mad at God. I calmed down, after crying and telling God how unfair He was when I followed all the directions and had lots of faith, I figured He should have answered my prayer . A thought crossed my mind, right out of left field that asked - “Well, whose will did you want to be done?” It stopped me in my tracks and I had to say, “well, I guess mine”. I knew what the Lord’s prayer said at least. It was a sorely needed lesson I never forgot after that. God is calling the shots, not me. After going through 8 years of unemployment, hubby going back to school, numerous adventures with God during that time, and seeing He really did know better than me, that He could be trusted and His Word is the road map I need to follow to keep on the right way . Valuable lesson that was worth it all!
This man said it best “PYRAMID SCHEME “
@@fightingforthefaith8676 no lol
@@christopherarocha92 I think she was hacked
Wake up Olive was so incredibly sad. Healing does not need to be worked up. Period. So sad
The church I left a few years ago was heavily steeped in the teachings of Bethel and hillsong, jesus culture ect... in fact all of the guest speakers at our church and the youth conference they called purpose conference was stemmed from these churches. I ended up there simply because I moved from my home state. And I was trying to find a new church. And I didnt want to be a "church hopper". So I kept going, until I couldn't take it anymore. There was no gospel. It was all self help. And they preached that if you didnt make a lot of money you weren't doing your part for Christ. Once after church I was waiting for my daughter to come out, she was serving in childrens ministry. I overheard a new congregant telling someone who was deep in the church that he was excited because he was a recovering addict and found Christ. The deep in the church guy responded by bragging to this kid who is barely getting it together that he just bought this huge brand new house on the hill. And had room for his big boat and cars ect.... he went on and on about how important it is to have stuff! I was embarrassed for him. And appalled to be honest. But not at all surprised because it's exactly what this church stood on. I felt released in my soul when I finally left. Part of what kept me longer than i wanted was my daughter. She always said how much she enjoyed youth. Turns out she hated it and was trying to convince herself.
Hi Sister,Ecclesiastes 1:9 says that there is "nothing new under the sun".
I am reading a book from an old RC monk,John Micheal Talbot,who was prominent in the late 60s early 70s Jesus Movement,and he said that there was so much crazy cultish churches being,born out of this,which got him running to Catholicism.
This stuff reminds me of this crazy heretical stuff from50 60 years ago.
We are watching some FAI,and other stuff atm,and find it helpful to our faith.
God bless you and have a great day from Brisbane Australia 🇦🇺🇦🇺
@@stevenrichardson4659 thank you! I agree. Its wild to watch. God bless you. I'm praying for the believers in this world to be guided by truth.
@@stevenrichardson4659 so he ran from so called cultish stuff to the biggest cult of all Catholicism. Lol man people just get back to reading your bibles. So having Mary carry your prayers to God isn't cultish lol.
@@truth0077 What cult are you from again?
@@stevenrichardson4659 dont mock the man who just called out the Catholic church. He just did everyone a huge favor by standing up and posting that. If you yourself have been led astray and deceived into thinking that the Catholic church is teaching the truth, then you are not grounded in the word and have been "cultured" into a church system. Jesus knows YOU but he wants you to know HIM.
The mention of achieving "levels" of Christianity immediately reminds me of Scientology. Hmmm.....
That's like a bible app only giving the first five books for free and charging 5.99 for the next 5 books.
The Charismatic church is saturated in occultism
Seeing Wagner was a Knight of Malta. Levels is a must in everyone of the secret orders.Freemasonry, Jesuits etc. you can see where the structure was fashioned. Read their joining oaths whilst you check it out. Then question what they are really trying to achieve.
Leah Remini is doing her exposure on Scientology on Netflix
The more I learn about this movement, the more I'm realizing that it's incredibly similar to Mormonism. Like really REALLY similar.
No way.. how??
Modern day apostles and prophets is the biggest similarity. New revelations that are equivalent to scripture basically
The part about the burden to show that you’ve gone up to another spiritual level is real. It was a painful experience to be told by my prophetic leader that I had been in decline for 6 months, while I was 6 months pregnant (clearly increasing, not in decline). It crushed me, it hurt me, and it shared to open my eyes.
And to be told when I asked my leader a simple question, “I have discerning of spirits and I know which spirit you are operating from”.
Then when I left her group, she distances me because her time is valuable and she only gives a lot of time to the people in her group because they are her responsibility. To go from being in that group to now being on the other side is just ugly. It’s a weird mafia-type thing. Very sad.
Yes we have a modern apostle Gino Jennings hear his message he speaks truth he don't preach hanky panky so-called traditions of Charismatics non sense
I encourage you to forgive her and start a new journey with God. Resilience in God makes you wiser and stronger. Peace of God be with you.
I am a minister and was 15 years part of a network of a so called apostolic network here in europe under the oversight of one of big names in this new apostolic network . I left them because I could not believe what’s going on there .
The baptism, power of the holy spirit just sounds like it's being played around with 😒
Playing with fire 🔥
So thankful to have been delivered out of that!!!
Thank you for this podcast. I am a Pastor’s wife and am praying for some of those we know leave to attend a “Bethel “affiliated church. It breaks my heart and they refuse to hear any warnings, given in love. I am sad see them go from a Word centered church to an based NAR church.
It is the same in Europe.
The maingoal is back to Roman Catholicchurch. It is the false church in these endtimes.