PicoMEM - One ISA card to rule them all. HDD/Floppy/RAM/Mouse/WiFi/POST Code

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  • Опубліковано 30 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 128

  • @sulcusulnaris
    @sulcusulnaris 10 місяців тому +27

    Some make LEDs flash with these microcontrollers and others build such wonderful expansion cards. Sincere respect and high esteem!

  • @esseferio
    @esseferio 10 місяців тому +25

    As far as retrocomputing is concerned, these are great times to live in, with all this new clever hardware!

    • @andressepter
      @andressepter 10 місяців тому +4

      Those new nice gadget show us two things 1) how really out of balance early (and not so early) PC-s were due budget concerns b) HOW fast a 1980s machine REALLY could be if all periherals work at "full speed" and only bottleneck is 8-bit ISA bus.

    • @SenileOtaku
      @SenileOtaku 10 місяців тому

      Makes me sorry to have gotten rid of my two Tandy 1000 machines (over 25 years ago). I could have been having lots of fun with them now. And unlike the mid/late 1990's, I don't find old 8-bit computers in tag sales or thrift shops anymore.

    • @wishusknight3009
      @wishusknight3009 10 місяців тому

      @@SenileOtaku It currently has issues with Tandy 1000 machines. Due to the Tandy using a different memory map. I am sure this can be handled with a separate bios build though.

  • @jeremiefaucher-goulet3365
    @jeremiefaucher-goulet3365 10 місяців тому +7

    I'd love to see a 16-bit ISA version, for faster Data I/O transfers.
    And maybe a VLB version too.

  • @jonspoonamore3721
    @jonspoonamore3721 10 місяців тому +14

    Old Net/Sys Admin here... WOW! Nice video. That card would have been nice way back in the day. I haven't seen 4DOS in decades.

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому +1

      As you can i see i use 4DOS even on an 8088.

  • @peachgrush
    @peachgrush 10 місяців тому +17

    Looks like a great project!
    Given that it has WiFi support, a NetDrive client would be a nice addition, too. This way one could boot an old PC off the network, using a remote hard disk image, with no need for client-side drivers.

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому +6

      I have used Netdrive with the PicoMEM. It's possible to boot from a Floppy with NetDrive on. And with PicoMEM you have a emulated floppy. Or you could of course boot from emulated hdd on the PicoMEM.

    • @peachgrush
      @peachgrush 10 місяців тому +3

      ​@@RetroErikIt's great that you've got that checked out! It's definitely an option to boot from a virtual floppy and then mount a remote NetDrive. Direct, built-in support for NetDrive would be just a nice next step.

  • @FantaBH
    @FantaBH 10 місяців тому +3

    this is an real love to retro computers, it was nice to watch this video , don't know why I enjoyed so much to watch this video , but indeed I did. So thank you for sharing this with us.

  • @thesmokingcap
    @thesmokingcap 10 місяців тому +6

    Wow!! Thats so cool, I need this for my 286 as it's rather limited at the moment

  • @TheRetroRaven
    @TheRetroRaven 10 місяців тому +11

    This is awesome, and would be fantastic for my future 80286 project that I have in mind.
    Thanks!

  • @RetroTechChris
    @RetroTechChris 10 місяців тому +14

    Thank you, Erik, for putting together this most excellent video!

    • @RetroTechChris
      @RetroTechChris 10 місяців тому +1

      @@arnolda.lampel6087 haha perhaps! Doesn't work in Tandy 1000s right now. I could make a video at some point I presume.

    • @snap_oversteer
      @snap_oversteer 10 місяців тому

      Very nice project, can it work along with existing MFM controller (using only drives 3+4)?

  • @chupathingy5862
    @chupathingy5862 10 місяців тому +21

    Blows my mind that we can use an advanced miniature computer as life support for a much older one.

  • @ErazerPT
    @ErazerPT 10 місяців тому +5

    Quite interesting what people are getting up to with micro controllers these days. Wonder if the PiStorm route would be doable as there's only so much bandwidth on the ISA bus and the cost of bit-banging the CPU might be worth it. As a side note, you're NOT limited to what one micro controller can do, you're just limited to how fast they can talk to each other ;)

  • @AlejandroRodolfoMendez
    @AlejandroRodolfoMendez 10 місяців тому +1

    Nice project I hope it succeed, I don't think I can get one but this kind of project would help a lot with old computers

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому +1

      Helping old computers is what its all about. 😀

  • @otakumw
    @otakumw 10 місяців тому +3

    Thanks for the great video. It explains a lot and will help me use my PicoMem card to the fullest. I hope it will work with the EuroPC 1 in the future as it currently unfortunately doesn't.

  • @wskinnyodden
    @wskinnyodden 10 місяців тому +4

    CTRL+ALT+ESC = BIOS at ANY time (well mostly)
    I had its big brother, the EURO XT with a 20Mb HDD :) That was my first pc, where I saw my first 2400Bps modem being installed which started my computer related career :)
    (Side note, killed that modem by running it at 9600Bps for about 6hours, too long for it not to burn due to overclock hehe)

  • @douro20
    @douro20 10 місяців тому +2

    I'd like to see a modern 8-bit multi-IO card which emulates the features of the AST SixPack or Sigma Designs Maximizer.

  • @ashtonsretrocomputerroom
    @ashtonsretrocomputerroom 10 місяців тому +2

    Very cool!

  • @zbyseklipka406
    @zbyseklipka406 10 місяців тому +2

    PC XT Forever! Thanks!

  • @RetroErik
    @RetroErik  10 місяців тому +4

    Some of you maybe saw that the i used version 2.0 of USE!UMBS, this could be the cause of my instability when using UMB. In versjon 2.2 of USE!UMBS is clears the memory (i beleive) before it uses it. I will do more tests with USE!UMBS v2.2

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому +2

      Hi
      USE!UMB 2.0 has an hardcoded RAM location from D000h to EFFFh, and the PicoMEM BIOS plus its ram is inside. (If you used the xxx_D0 firmware)

  • @cobrag0318
    @cobrag0318 10 місяців тому +3

    Well, to get around the lack of CD image support, in most cases with older titles, you can simply copy them to a hard drive. In this case, either using a software like dosbox to create a hard drive image, and mount both it and the CD image, copy the contents, and then move the image to pico mem and mount as an additional drive. Or create a new hard drive image with the pico mem, and use networking to copy the CD contents from another PC over the network into the new drive image. Or even simpler, for titles that don't need to be seen on another drive letter, and don't care that they're just in another folder on the drive, forgot the 2nd drive image and just use the network to copy them from another PC to a folder on your existing drive. Though there are some titles, esp copy protected ones that are smart and will look for themselves on an optical drive only, at which point, you'll have to wait for CD image support unless you can do it from whthin DOS.

  • @Pickle136
    @Pickle136 10 місяців тому +8

    do you have a 286 you can try it on? ive been waiting for the card to be fully opensourced for use on a 286.

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому +9

      I have tried it on a 286 - 12 Mhz. Worked almost perfectly. I had trouble getting WiFi, i believe its the thick heavy steel cabinet that causes it. Floppy and hdd worked great. I could not extend conventional memory since the 286 had 1MB already. I did not try EMS.

  • @eudatux23
    @eudatux23 10 місяців тому +4

    Awesome project!!

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому

      Yes it is. And this is only the beginning.

  • @soviet9922
    @soviet9922 9 місяців тому

    Amazing work there.

  • @cdoublejj
    @cdoublejj 10 місяців тому +1

    i think i'll get one, i plan to have some retro machines and have almost enough to build one

  • @Phil-D83
    @Phil-D83 10 місяців тому +2

    Amazing what this pi pico can do. More power than the actual pcs at the time, but that is beside the point. 😅

  • @damson3413
    @damson3413 5 місяців тому +1

    it sounds like all this is missing is video output and then it'd be the ultimate ISA card, slot it into any old motherboard and away it goes, fully functional.

  • @henrikgustav2294
    @henrikgustav2294 8 місяців тому

    Wait, with this i dont need xt ide, ps/2 keyboard, serial mouse, network card, floppy usb emulator, ide cf, wifi repeater for the network, lan cable?

  • @noise420
    @noise420 9 місяців тому

    friggin wicked!

  • @lohikarhu734
    @lohikarhu734 10 місяців тому +2

    I never owned one of the DOS PC's, because i did realtime hardware development, and disliked the idea of all those jumpers and stuff, so i had a z80 system, then a motorola VMEbus Unix box, then a Mac.... but, great project, very original thinking, and something that one could probably design for similar functions in the "original" Macintosh.

  • @patrickdeunhouwer5926
    @patrickdeunhouwer5926 10 місяців тому +3

    Love it where cani it be bought ?

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  20 днів тому

      www.serdashop.com/PicoMEM

  • @The_DreadStorm
    @The_DreadStorm 8 місяців тому

    What I'd really like to see is a floppy drive controller (maybe added IDE too) that uses a PCI or PCIe slot. Not USB, not anything else that might shortcut the deal. Just a floppy (+IDE) card that would be usable in modern PCs. THAT would be something I would invest in. Greatly. Controls every floppy from 160KB thru 2.88MB. Maybe even 8" control too, why not?

  • @firelightyear
    @firelightyear 10 місяців тому

    I hope we get Bin/cue support.

  • @jacquesb5248
    @jacquesb5248 10 місяців тому +2

    the good old days.....

  • @RodrikStudio
    @RodrikStudio 10 місяців тому

    My bracket in PETG is not very well printed, I need to dig more on how to print PETG.
    On the picomem side, I need to explore the new version too, I have it on my desk for a month.

    • @absalomdraconis
      @absalomdraconis 10 місяців тому

      In the case of WiFi there's reason in using them, but for other brackets try just bending some cheap aluminum flashing or similar sheet metal instead of plastic. All that you need for tools is a handheld drill, sheet metal shears (and preferable some metal files for holes), some pliers, a marker or something to mark out measurements, and an plan. Rare tools like sheet metal breaks aren't needed because the brackets are so small and simple.

  • @JohnVance
    @JohnVance 10 місяців тому +2

    I did not know it was possible to add RAM to a PC via an ISA slot...even a small amount. 286s are slightly before my time, though, so maybe that's something that was lost on 386 and newer?

    • @Jackpkmn
      @Jackpkmn 10 місяців тому +1

      Architecturally it never stopped being possible. You can still do it on a modern computer on the PCI express bus. But you'll have to write your own software to take advantage of that expanded memory.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому +2

      Yes it was useless because too slow.

    • @0LoneTech
      @0LoneTech 10 місяців тому +1

      The point it broke was basically after the 486. VLB allowed full speed access on 486, but PCI is more packetish (address before data on the same bus) and the memory controller was moved onto a faster north bridge bus. You still could access an ISA memory expansion via PCI-LPC-ISA but it couldn't compete with primary RAM. Compare e.g. swap to VRAM.

    • @jeremiefaucher-goulet3365
      @jeremiefaucher-goulet3365 10 місяців тому +2

      There's no magic with the ISA bus since it's connected directly to the address and data bus of the CPU. Add RAM in the address space and it'll work.
      Yes there were many memory ISA expansion cards back in the day but they rapidly disappeared because the ISA bus, at 8 MHz was too much of a speed bottleneck. It was slow ram as computers got faster.

    • @OpenGL4ever
      @OpenGL4ever 10 місяців тому +1

      This was possible before. They were called expansion boards or expansion memory boards. But you needed a driver for that and then EMS Memory was provided. However, EMS memory is only suitable for data, not for program code.

  • @AgentOffice
    @AgentOffice 10 місяців тому

    I like the chips labeled

  • @GrantMeStrength
    @GrantMeStrength 7 місяців тому

    Thanks for the video. You’ve convinced me to try it. Is there a good place to download disk images in the right format? I’m more interested in versions of DOS and programming tools than games.

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  6 місяців тому

      Try WinWorldPc and Archive.org

  • @erocdraHXAM
    @erocdraHXAM 7 місяців тому

    I use picomem on a 386 but i cant set EMS Port in Picomems Bios. The Adress is also not setable

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  7 місяців тому

      I am now using May 28th version. I can change Port. But EMS Addr. changing is not implementet yet.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 6 місяців тому

      Hi, Maybe because segment D and E are not free

  • @djdimpan
    @djdimpan 10 місяців тому +1

    what's the song used throughout this video?

    • @atarigalore
      @atarigalore 10 місяців тому +1

      magical sound shower or passing breeze from sega's Outrun

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому +1

      Outrun first, than Under A Killing Moon - Tex's Office.

    • @D3M3NT3Dstrang3r
      @D3M3NT3Dstrang3r 10 місяців тому

      I was looking for the same. I recognized it immediately but couldn't think of what game it was from. But now I remember it was from many hours of my Master System running with outrun in the slot.

  • @wishusknight3009
    @wishusknight3009 10 місяців тому

    On the GITHUB one of the limitations is choices need to be made to choose which features you want to turn on. Due to limited pico performance. Can you go into a bit of what can and cannot be used together?

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому

      FreddyV is the best to answer this, but i will try. WIth the features today, this is not a problem, but one could imagine a future where more feature would be limited by the Pico CPU. Today an yfeatures can be turned on/off, i would guess all new features will also be possible to turn off. And lastly, fatures does not use CPU for just beeing on, they have to be used. Since this card is mostly used from DOS - at least for me. I would not be using disk, cd-rom, network and GUS at the same time.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому +1

      The limitations will be more on audio. Everything else work "together " as the PC is not multi task.

    • @wishusknight3009
      @wishusknight3009 10 місяців тому

      @@freddyvretrozone2849 Thank you for responding! That makes sense now.

  • @dh2032
    @dh2032 10 місяців тому

    this is a interesting project, , PicoMEM ISA a to busy to do vdu graphics , I seen some doing Pico graphic card, would interesting to see coming together two projects, and sure there's someone out working on a Pico sound card? stack then all next to each over with very basic, ,ISA card bus, the same at really alley PC the PC motherboard was real just ISA card its self, plugged in a ISA card bus board interconnected ISA card connector slots and not much else a bit power and that was it?

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому

      Hi
      There is the PicoGUS soundcard.
      VGA pico based design only use the VGA connector, they are not VGA.
      A True VGA card based on pico is extremely difficult to do...

  • @MrNerdHair
    @MrNerdHair 10 місяців тому

    Anyone know where I can find the PCB design files, or at least some pinout info? I'd like to try adapting the design to the proprietary expansion card bus inside my T1000 laptop, but I don't know if it's got all the required signals broken out. I'm hoping most of the ISA pins on back of the PiccMem card aren't actually used...

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому

      Hi,
      I did not decide yet when I will have it public. I Shared it with some person already. A Book8088 design is under test for example.
      All this is really the begining.

    • @MrNerdHair
      @MrNerdHair 10 місяців тому

      @@freddyvretrozone2849 could I ask you to post a pic of the back of the card? That would let me tell if my idea is even possible.

  • @mrmcguru163
    @mrmcguru163 9 місяців тому

    dumb question, would this work on a ibm 5150?

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  9 місяців тому

      Check github. But yes I think so.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 9 місяців тому +1

      Yes it work, I spent 3 months to have it working on it.

  • @younessamr6802
    @younessamr6802 2 місяці тому

    can it emulate voodoo 3dfx ?

  • @ayan.debnath
    @ayan.debnath 10 місяців тому

    Garber file not available!

  • @DaiAtlus79
    @DaiAtlus79 10 місяців тому

    this is awesome. also is that computer you using Tandy compatible???

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому

      No It's a EuroPC, has Plantronics mode.

  • @protonjinx
    @protonjinx 10 місяців тому +1

    I feel like its impure to use a microcontroller that could emulate a whole 286 pc many times over to emulate a component in a 286. like using an F18 fighter jet to emulate a moped motor.

    • @AtoManPL
      @AtoManPL 10 місяців тому +3

      Amiga users would use Raspberry Pi as a CPU accelerator and then ANOTHER Pi as an HDMI output device (I believe you can use just one to do so nowadays). This seems like much less of an overkill xD

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому +1

      Hi,
      Emulate hardware in software require lot of performance.
      This is also not really fair to say that, as the pico is a 133mhz arm0 even not able to do floating point math.
      Compared to the PiStorm to add a Pi5 in an amiga.
      The Pico is a microcontroller and nobody complsin about the gotek.. that is doing the same.

    • @0LoneTech
      @0LoneTech 10 місяців тому +1

      The processor in a Commodore 1541 is just as fast as the one in the Commodore 64. And those are contemporary.
      Same deal with the LaserJet II, which I saw deployed with two processors both outperforming the host.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому

      @@0LoneTech And there are PC isa boards with 68000 😀

    • @0LoneTech
      @0LoneTech 10 місяців тому

      @@freddyvretrozone2849 Yes, the PostScript controller board for that LaserJet was one of those.

  • @novafiddler1712
    @novafiddler1712 9 місяців тому

    clever af

  • @blackIce504
    @blackIce504 10 місяців тому

    nice card, but is there a 16bit one that has some sim slots that would be epic.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому +1

      Hi,
      Thanks.
      16bit require 2 things:
      - more gpio pin, the pico cant.
      - Support the ISA no wait state, the pico is not fast enaugh.
      Maybe my project will give ideas for others, it show it may be possible.

    • @blackIce504
      @blackIce504 10 місяців тому

      @@freddyvretrozone2849yeah for sure on its own. I am trying to think of what might ESP32 comes to mind, but still need a switch.
      Sorry I just been thinking of something like this for sometime might as well start with ISA as its far more simple well in someways.

    • @blackIce504
      @blackIce504 10 місяців тому

      @@freddyvretrozone2849 LPC maybe on the pico side and ISA on the other using a bridge chip, sure it complicates the project but that bridge chip if it would world like that could add more functions.
      The other one i was thinking of is ESP32 I think it does have a larger GPIO and has a faster clock, but not sure if its actually faster.
      but anyway, love the project I will be watching.

  • @delysio
    @delysio 10 місяців тому

    Have you tested this card with EuroPC 1? Thanks for the video!

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому

      Yes i have, did not find the PicoMEM. I have dialog with FreddyV on this issue, so I am doing som test for him. I have received a diagnostic program he wrote for the PicoMEM.

    • @delysio
      @delysio 10 місяців тому

      @@RetroErik Thank you. Please keep us posted on this issue!

    • @delysio
      @delysio 10 місяців тому

      @@RetroErik Any news regarding EuroPC 1 support? Thanks.

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому +1

      @@delysio FreddyV has made a new firmware for me to try, i will test it this weekend.

    • @delysio
      @delysio 10 місяців тому

      @@RetroErik Awesome! Please report.

  • @Null_Experis
    @Null_Experis 10 місяців тому

    Why not just plug the newer RPi into the DIP socket for the CPU at this point? Just make an interposer and offload all non-x86 specific functions to the Pi and just go ludicrous speed.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому +2

      I build this card as an anti amiga pistorm.
      The game for amiga is to have faster machines (frustrated that amiga stop)
      If someone want a faster IBM PC just take a more recent PC.

  • @madbike71
    @madbike71 10 місяців тому

    Wow!

  • @ReflexVE
    @ReflexVE 10 місяців тому +1

    Is there any project like this for 386/486 machines with 16 bit ISA? This would help my old Compaq but 8 bit transfers for the drive portion would be sloooow as would network access compared to a NE2000 card with a ROM for drive mapping.

    • @RetroErik
      @RetroErik  10 місяців тому

      Scroll down to Tested machines. github.com/FreddyVRetro/ISA-PicoMEM

    • @ReflexVE
      @ReflexVE 10 місяців тому

      @@RetroErikYes it will work, however due to being an 8bit ISA card it will be exceptionally slow for large drive access and network performance. That's why I asked if there is a 16bit ISA project that is similar.

    • @RetroTechChris
      @RetroTechChris 10 місяців тому +1

      @@ReflexVE I don't believe so.

    • @ReflexVE
      @ReflexVE 10 місяців тому +1

      @@RetroTechChrisMaybe someday...

    • @0LoneTech
      @0LoneTech 10 місяців тому +2

      ​@@ReflexVE You think a factor 2 is exceptional? Let me introduce you to wait states and sector interleaving.

  • @nR-kv7xo
    @nR-kv7xo 10 місяців тому +2

    I need.

  • @madson-web
    @madson-web 10 місяців тому

    It is a great project but what I really wanted is a VGA out from these

    • @AgentOffice
      @AgentOffice 10 місяців тому

      Graphics is much harder

  • @purplepeak8575
    @purplepeak8575 9 місяців тому

    Got excited but then read Tandy 1000 is incompatible.

  • @AiOinc1
    @AiOinc1 10 місяців тому +1

    Ah yes, the time honored classic of replacing the entire computer with another computer.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому

      Hi,
      It is not at all the case.
      Nothing is replaced it is adding fonctionnality. It is not a Pistrom

    • @sweetlilmre
      @sweetlilmre 10 місяців тому +1

      Ah yes, the time honoured classic of exposing your ignorance to the internet in a sardonic attempt to sound intelligent.

  • @yhavry
    @yhavry 10 місяців тому +1

    the pico literally has 13 times the clockrate thats insane lmaooo

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 10 місяців тому +1

      Hi,
      If you calculate the number of instruction needed to detect signal edge, move 2 time multiplexer, read address low, address high, data, decode the address, read the value and return it in 200ns, this is not that much.
      I see lot of comment like this here, but nobody realize it is Hardware emulated by software, we can't compare one by one with MHz....

  • @incandescentwithrage
    @incandescentwithrage 9 місяців тому

    There's a point where you are no longer using a retro PC, but an ARM compute module with old peripherals connected.
    It should be considered whether you would be better off with PCem and no vintage hardware.

    • @freddyvretrozone2849
      @freddyvretrozone2849 9 місяців тому +1

      Hi,
      I understand, but a Sound Blaster is a microcontroller connected to ISA, a Gravis UltraSound is an even more powerfull microcontroller connected on a PC, some soundcard has a 68000 on them A Graphic card has GPU more powerfull than the PC as well.
      The PicoMEM Does not accelerate the PC, It add functionality that did exist (Disk, RAM, Mouse...) but with more modern interface/peripherals.
      When I did the picoMEM, I was thinking about all the person wondering how to use their retro PC with a Dead HDD and no Floppy.
      And also al the person with cool XT with one ISA Slot that can finally better use them.

  • @Mr.1.i
    @Mr.1.i 10 місяців тому

    800kb is overkill on an 8bit structure

  • @AgentOffice
    @AgentOffice 10 місяців тому

    ;`

  • @selami32
    @selami32 10 місяців тому

    larryegapron

  • @viscountalpha
    @viscountalpha 10 місяців тому +1

    Very cool!