@@stephfoxwell4620or just….not sell them off like all the normal countries in Europe. There is no competition. You either use the water from your local company or you don’t lol. What a bizarre country we are.
If people haven't yet woken up to what's going on here by now, what this means is that these companies are private in the good times and public in the bad. Much as the banks were in 2008. Profits are privatised and losses are socialised and nobody YET seems to have any objections to this. Hence it continues.
Private profit turning into public debt has happened on many occasions. Unfortunately, the report whilst claiming the shareholders would be forced to pay for the debt and modernisation didn't explain how they would change the whole nature of company law. Somehow forgetting that a Limited company's ownership is by definition limited liability.
What often gets ignored is at lot of these investors are not super rich Arab sheiks but pension funds that we all subscribe too. That dastardly dividend often ends up as your pension at the end of the month. OK there will be some Arab Shieks and Chinese government getting some return on their investment but the truth is they are not charities. Should our utilities have been sold off? Well the idea originally was the people bought in to their utilities and then benefitted from their investment. Problem is dreams and reality are uncomfortable bed fellows and the bankers and lawyers soon moved in and screwed the plan, pocketing massive pay offs on the way. So I would suggest great plan, bad result. But look at the electricity industry. Most of our infrastructure is now owned by EU countries. EDF=Electricite de France-wholly owned by the French Government. E-on, Npower - German owned, Scottish Power - Spanish owned. Even UK company SSE has sold a 25% stake to a Canadian Teacher's Pension Fund. Oops, that didn't work out as planned either!
@@johngraham6181 EFF is 40 % privatised -EU Competition Law is forcing EU members to privatise state enterprises SNCF is ajsi being privatised Does nobody bother to read EU Competition Law.!!!!
@@hmq9052 why would you think it would be run any better in public hands ? the government determines the rules, regulation and oversight and has done since 1989, and its still managed to overwatch the failings and collapse that we are seeing today
if these sovereign funds are joint owners they have plenty of money to service their debts. they did it with Eurostar and the French Government when that was on the brink of collapse
The whole point in privatisation, so we were told at the time, was to raise money to update victorian infrastructure, what actually appears to have happened is the money effectively got stolen and the infrastructure is still a mess.
@schrodingerscat1863 the idea was unsound because competition was impossible. A Thames Water user could not get service from Severn Trent if they were unhappy. You are wrong.
@@nickdoughty518 That is because the regulatory framework is all wrong. It should have been done on a franchise basis where the company involved can be kicked out if they don't provide the service to a high enough standard. It can be done but not if the people involved in setting it up are corrupt and have vested interest in making sure it's corrupt. Ultimately all we got were monopolies with no rules on performance or reinvestment.
They pay massive salaries and bonuses to directors and massive dividends for foreign shareholders while simultaneously dumping sewage and imposing hosepipe bans. The company must be bankrupt and wound up. What have OFWAT done and the minister been doing? Nothing.
OFWAT (and other so-called "regulators") are full of the people who used to run these very same organisations..... They're on first name terms with each other and probably share tips and tricks as and when..... It's what's known as an old school tie gravy train.
why would you think it would be run any better in public hands ? the government determines the rules, regulation and oversight and has done since 1989, and its still managed to overwatch the failings and collapse that we are seeing today
@@oldshiny3012 because here is yet another case in point whereby taxpayers are going to have to bail it out, but in the meantime any profits have been stripped and given to shareholders. Let it fail in Government hands at least billions aren't going abroad to companies in Saudi and China
@@Kentish9494are you trying to say the government would run it better and not syphon off the money for other things ? because that's exactly what they would do and your bill wouldn't go down the opposite would happen. Poor governance is poor governance whether in private or public ownership
It's not about private or public. There are deeper cultural problems where people just don't really care. They want to get paid their wage and keep their heads down. If you start coming up with "big ideas" at any organisation, private or public, you're gonna be risking your career. We live in a "go along to get along" society.
When I was just 18 I was in the backroom admin of a stockbrokers and helping to get ready for the float and and all the allocation with stock and I remember thinking ... How can you privatise water that comes through your pipes? I thought water was something that was a given and not morally right to hijack and a basic human right to have water and shouldn't be given to people to profit from. But I was young and the new boy, so I just went with the frenzy B.S. and felt like the idiot who didn't get it in my mind ! Many things were spawned in those years of Thatcherism and I think if I have learnt anything it is not to vote for anyone that grinds with your values. I was a tory through and trough. Now no party has the integrity I am looking for and would entrust my life too, because now it is all falling apart because of these short term immoral players that can't keep their hands out of our wallets and can't keep their dicks in their trousers either.
@@Clinton__ i engage in various prolific trade by compound interest & leveraging and as well operating with an analyst guru Mr Charles Lucas, So far I've attained returns over $10K this mon'th
I am no lefty either. If I am honest more and more I try and stay out of it. But of all the things we could nationalise water seems like one true irrefutable necessity for everyone.
@@EppingBlogger Being state-owned was not as bad as you would like to make out though. And bills were genuinely low. No Shareholders rubbing their greasy little mitts together. Your water wasn't providing for the CEO's mansion.
This is due to bad management over decades. The first duty should have been to manage a schedule of improvements as part of operating costs that had first call on profits and share holders paid once that money was set aside every financial year.
This is a bigger problem than politics. Much of the infrastructure is Victorian for goodness sakes. If we consider Victorian in the most generous terms (1901) that is 122 years old!!
This is just another case of senior management pillaging the company's tangible cash/current assets, year by year by year - and replacing them with debt, until the debt mountain gets too big to service.... Execs have been doing this for generations, and ordinary workers and smaller investors are the one's who'll end up paying the price.
That is how business operate now. Get the company assets value. Borrow double the value in an era of cheap debt. Get a tax advantage from the interest payments. Dont pay the staff. Don't invest in infrastructure. Declare whopping dividends and bonuses out of the vast borrowings. Water companies owe £65 billion. This debt cannot be paid back other than by us as consumers or taxpayers. Remember the Tories designed and encouraged asset stripping and greedy profiteering
The privatised water companies have paid far more than the money they owe in dividends to shareholders. They have also incurred millions of pounds in fines from the regulator. Had Thames Water invested in its business and carried out maintenance and upgrades, it would now be profitable rather than looking for a rescue. Yet another case of privatised profits, nationalised losses.
No mention there of poor management by people who are paid millions to " manage" . This debt just didn't happen the other day , just out of curiousity, any of the leaders of Thames Water got experience of running a company like this...😢
The whole neoliberal mantra was the need to balance the books. That was their excuse for destroying the Coal mines, shipbuilding, ports, railways,steel, etc
If the debts of all privatised utilities, railways, councils, academy trusts, NHS trusts were pulled nack i to the National debt we'd be technically bankrupt. Adding another £1.2 trillion to the £2.7 trillion we already have. Oh ,and the £225 billion of student debt, £835 billion of QE, £110 billion of PFI......
Where was Ofwat when this was going on. Asleep at the wheel with Andrew Bailey in the Bank of England. Absolutely disgraceful. The tax payers should not have pay for this. The British Government need to have a backbone and force the owners to respect their contractual obligations.
Just sell it back to the Public for £1 ( As the Government has done on numerous occasions for their donors ) and give the shareholders nothing, they took a gamble and made billions in divdends , now the chickens have come home to roost
you could see this coming amile away...when thatcher privatised the water industry there is only one question why it took so long ,,,,the water companies have been covering up for years.
Dividends, and share buybacks, must only be payable from profits. Change the Law. Only allow a maximum of £100 for "licensing costs" allowed on a Company Tax Return. Change the Law.
We have 12 bedroom 12 bathroom suite 4 washing machine But I don't have a swimming pool Have a hot tub for 8 people My water bill this year 14,, thousands pounds If only my water company can stop Wasting water We are only using one bathroom for now Street wise TAL....... Ps my gas bill even more expensive 56 radiator 3 boliers 18 thosunds this year Am really scared for this winter coming
When I was young these debt piles were unheard of, maximum liquidity was kept down to 70%. Nowadays most companies seem to run at 90% or more - I've never thought it was a good idea.
I expect now we will be expected to bail them out, fair enough, we will bail them out, provided its put back,into the public domain, otherwise let the Shear holders bail them out ?.
We can thank the Privatisation of national industries across the EU on EU policies . Yet another rrason that Brexit was a good idea. Now all we have to do is repair all the damage that EU membership has done and that will take years .
Monopolies should never be left to private enterprise. With no competition it's a cash cow, even more so if maintenance is pushed back to the future and oversized profits taken now. Government ownership might not be efficient but their mandate is to provide a service, not make a profit.
Let it fail, its not hard to see that the whole rational behind the these numerous shareholders allowing the company to pile up so much debt is directly because people would assume that it would be bailed out eventually and if nationalised they get their shares bought off them by the UK. AKA no risk for them, just loads of expenses on the UK. Its need to be left to fail and have other company's buy up its assets and taken on its role. Ideally long term laws and regulations need to be removed or adjusted where necessary to allow for competition which is possible in such an industry its just uncommon. We have the same basic setup with how crap our trains and power networks, they could be done privately but as it currently is we in effect have a system that would be like allowing supermarkets to exist but having the lorrys, vans and warehouses be state owned and the locations of stores be chosen by the state which is obviously a recipe for chaos and isnt in anyway a free market. The current set up is not actual privatisation its just corporatism, its got a state enforced monopoly with no competition and end of the day its owned by the state because of that and due to the level of control the state has over it. Slapping a stick saying privately owned on it and then allowing people to buy shares of it and take a chunk of money off it in exchange is what has happened. Nationalising them would be a step backwards and wouldnt in anyway improve the service or in real terms make it cheaper to run as the costs would just switch over to being everyones tax instead. Let them fail, other companies will pick up the pieces, whats the point of having such a vast welfare state/"saftey net" if we dont allow anything to fail, we may as well just be a communist totally centrally run economy at that point. Forcing them to buy more shares in the company is just kicking the can down the road, so in short the most likely outcome. Btw nationalisation will probably end up happening with it eventually, as actually trying to liberate the industry will be met by vast opposition from the left, special interests who dont want competition to enter their monopoly and most of all its too much effort for the average politician to be bothered to deal with.
The debt holders MUST be made to "take the bath" and the shareholders should either properly fund their company (it is their job / contractual obligation after all) or surrender their shares.
I always wonder where our pension funds are invested as they don't seem to choose utilities to invest in but foreign companies and governments see the opportunity in what should remain, for national security, utilities owned by British institutions if not the government.
I am all for privatisation, but not without minimum levels of self-funding being in place and ring-fenced reserves. Crazy to have allowed the owners to have run up this level of debt pile....and potentially oblige the taxpayer to foot the bill when things go wrong.
And one of the Brexit so called benefits during the campaign was to deregulate all services and open up Britain to outside investment so all those that pushed Brexit want more Thames Water type services in Britain paying those have invested massive dividends and supply a poorer but more expensive service. Who have gained from Brexit????
let Thames water go bust, put all ceo's & directors past & present under investigation to see their pay & bonuses etc & see how much in dividends have been paid. Why pay dividend & huge wages if they cant service their debt?
I am just going to put it out there, just a theory, but the Thames catchment area, i.e. greater London is hugely overcrowded, 90% of migrants gravitate toward that area, all the water and sewage systems needed to sustain the area are simply overwhelmed in part due to numbers. Its getting worse and worse, yes there is underinvestment and corporate greed-mismanagement but no one has suggested the human numbers involved in the mess. Why isn't immigration and the numbers involved never spoken about?
While profits ..who are consumers ... Now when water is till neck so now remembering the consumers for more ..more and more ..this greed culture will take everyone down
It was expected (by me) that Brexit would have dominoed onto these issues. Gov (cross party) has ignored this for decades. UU sponsored the local pride weekend .. i mean.. why does UU need to raise awareness of itself? Water companies have a captive market. Trains compete with cars, coaches and planes.water companies have no competition
Are the people running big businesses, banks and governments so uninformed about economics they don't understand interest rates, bond values or the need to manage these matters (among others). It seems that all politicians are PPE graduates (with very little "E" other than Keynsian stuff), PR, lobbying etc. Similarly the BoE and big business. I suggest it is overdue to actually train people to do the jobs that need doing and to select the best people instead of chosing according to ideology, colour and who they are sponsored by in politics. I was waiting for a car to be serviced this morning and something called Channel 5 was on a TV there. They had a pig ignorant commentator claim that £14 billion had been taken by owners and made other disobliging comments. The presenter enthusiastically welcomed the comments. There was no alternative story given. Is it a surprise the left is winning over younger people when no one explains and defends capitalism. However badly this business has managed its debt, it will be shareholders who suffer the fall out (unless some numpty politician bails them out or nationalises them!!).
Who owns Thames Water? Thames Water is a private utility company owned by Kemble Water Holdings Ltd, a consortium led by the Australian-owned Macquarie Group. It was sold to the company in 2006 for £8bn by previous owners RWE, a German multinational energy firm. Thames Water also has a number of shareholders, including Canadian pensions group OMERS, the Universities Superannuation scheme, BT pension scheme, the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, the China Investment Corporation and the Kuwait Investment Authority. 🤣🤣🤣 If you think Thames Water is a British owned company, well its not.
The richest place can save itself, not to take the government's funds. London takes all the advantages most of the time. Such as lots of huge infrastructure，but NE people just humble wish a bigger swimming pool or a library . When government proposed to decrease children education fund, in London every child reduce £5， in Durham every child reduce £20.
Because they know tax payers will have to pick up the bill and they get to walk away without a prison sentace that's why. Criminal irrisponsability with no criminal charges.
The UK should have barred other governments buying into our 'privatised' utilities.
The patriotic party sold them to the foreigners.
So much better to be fleeced by your own fellow countrymen eh?
@@stephfoxwell4620 Subsidising foreign companies that supply a crap service isn't optimal is it?
@@stephfoxwell4620or just….not sell them off like all the normal countries in Europe. There is no competition. You either use the water from your local company or you don’t lol. What a bizarre country we are.
@@stephfoxwell4620 No - to stop external control and to ensure profits can be retained in UK investment.
If people haven't yet woken up to what's going on here by now, what this means is that these companies are private in the good times and public in the bad.
Much as the banks were in 2008.
Profits are privatised and losses are socialised and nobody YET seems to have any objections to this.
Hence it continues.
Spot on
So!!! What can we do about this mess.
Private profit turning into public debt has happened on many occasions.
Unfortunately, the report whilst claiming the shareholders would be forced to pay for the debt and modernisation didn't explain how they would change the whole nature of company law. Somehow forgetting that a Limited company's ownership is by definition limited liability.
@@COIcultist It looks like the government and thus ultimately the taxpayers and bill payers are over a barrel no?
@@gerhard7323 It does appear at times that all governments enjoy lubing up a bit too much.
I bet you any money the investors don't lose their money, the taxpayer will end up paying the £14bn debt. We're being robbed.
This is what the torries want for all of the UK
What often gets ignored is at lot of these investors are not super rich Arab sheiks but pension funds that we all subscribe too. That dastardly dividend often ends up as your pension at the end of the month. OK there will be some Arab Shieks and Chinese government getting some return on their investment but the truth is they are not charities. Should our utilities have been sold off? Well the idea originally was the people bought in to their utilities and then benefitted from their investment. Problem is dreams and reality are uncomfortable bed fellows and the bankers and lawyers soon moved in and screwed the plan, pocketing massive pay offs on the way. So I would suggest great plan, bad result. But look at the electricity industry. Most of our infrastructure is now owned by EU countries. EDF=Electricite de France-wholly owned by the French Government. E-on, Npower - German owned, Scottish Power - Spanish owned. Even UK company SSE has sold a 25% stake to a Canadian Teacher's Pension Fund. Oops, that didn't work out as planned either!
@@johngraham6181 EFF is 40 % privatised -EU Competition Law is forcing EU members to privatise state enterprises SNCF is ajsi being privatised Does nobody bother to read EU Competition Law.!!!!
@@johngraham6181 A Canadian pension fund and a UK Universities pension fund owns 50% of the shares.
Daylight Robbery. Summer Sadness Song...
What is offwat doing allowing 14 billion in debt whilst paying massive dividends!!!
That is the question that really needs answering, the company overseen by government regulators has been allowed to become insolvent.
Ask yourself how much of that 14 billion made its way to OFWAT execs........
@@cgo225A lot 😂😂😅
good question! the important questions like that don't seem to get addressed even by GB News
Well the lady that ran ofwat is now the chairman of Thames Water, so there is your answer
WHY SHOULD WE THE TAXPAYER BAIL THEM OUT WHEN THE SHARE HOLDERS GET A PAY OUT AND TOP MANAGEMENT HAVE THERE SNOUTS IN THE TROUGH
If you remember you voted Conservative. Corbyn was offering re-nationalising utilites
@@hmq9052 why would you think it would be run any better in public hands ? the government determines the rules, regulation and oversight and has done since 1989, and its still managed to overwatch the failings and collapse that we are seeing today
@@oldshiny3012 I don't. I wouldn't vote for Corbyn.
I DID NOT VOTE TORY
And , of course, the population of London has increased dramatically over the last few years. But, of course we will be told nothing about that.
Up from 8 million to 10 million since 1996.
Plus hundreds of thousands more tourists and students.
And when the population increases you increase your infrastructure which these private companies didn’t do but pocket very large profits.
They took 20 billion out in profits, nothing to do with increasing population.
And an increased population means increased revenue.
@@jakecross4628Assuming supply and demand are balanced
if these sovereign funds are joint owners they have plenty of money to service their debts. they did it with Eurostar and the French Government when that was on the brink of collapse
The whole point in privatisation, so we were told at the time, was to raise money to update victorian infrastructure, what actually appears to have happened is the money effectively got stolen and the infrastructure is still a mess.
Merci beaucoup.
Another catastrophic ideological mistake from the Thatcher era.
@@nickdoughty518 The idea was sound but the implementation was yet another corrupt money grab.
@schrodingerscat1863 the idea was unsound because competition was impossible. A Thames Water user could not get service from Severn Trent if they were unhappy. You are wrong.
@@nickdoughty518 That is because the regulatory framework is all wrong. It should have been done on a franchise basis where the company involved can be kicked out if they don't provide the service to a high enough standard. It can be done but not if the people involved in setting it up are corrupt and have vested interest in making sure it's corrupt. Ultimately all we got were monopolies with no rules on performance or reinvestment.
They pay massive salaries and bonuses to directors and massive dividends for foreign shareholders while simultaneously dumping sewage and imposing hosepipe bans. The company must be bankrupt and wound up. What have OFWAT done and the minister been doing? Nothing.
OFWAT (and other so-called "regulators") are full of the people who used to run these very same organisations..... They're on first name terms with each other and probably share tips and tricks as and when..... It's what's known as an old school tie gravy train.
Let it go bust so the shareholders get phuque all
Infrastructure should never be in private hands. Period
You’re a lefty. Go away.
why would you think it would be run any better in public hands ? the government determines the rules, regulation and oversight and has done since 1989, and its still managed to overwatch the failings and collapse that we are seeing today
@@oldshiny3012 because here is yet another case in point whereby taxpayers are going to have to bail it out, but in the meantime any profits have been stripped and given to shareholders. Let it fail in Government hands at least billions aren't going abroad to companies in Saudi and China
@@Kentish9494are you trying to say the government would run it better and not syphon off the money for other things ? because that's exactly what they would do and your bill wouldn't go down the opposite would happen. Poor governance is poor governance whether in private or public ownership
It's not about private or public. There are deeper cultural problems where people just don't really care. They want to get paid their wage and keep their heads down. If you start coming up with "big ideas" at any organisation, private or public, you're gonna be risking your career. We live in a "go along to get along" society.
Completely disgusting behaviour our water our rivers ..... reservoirs foreign owned ... because of our dodgy governments
Your dodgy governments that promised to "take back control" refuse to take that control back FROM THE PEOPLE THEY SOLD IT TO.
When I was just 18 I was in the backroom admin of a stockbrokers and helping to get ready for the float and and all the allocation with stock and I remember thinking ... How can you privatise water that comes through your pipes? I thought water was something that was a given and not morally right to hijack and a basic human right to have water and shouldn't be given to people to profit from.
But I was young and the new boy, so I just went with the frenzy B.S. and felt like the idiot who didn't get it in my mind ! Many things were spawned in those years of Thatcherism and I think if I have learnt anything it is not to vote for anyone that grinds with your values. I was a tory through and trough. Now no party has the integrity I am looking for and would entrust my life too, because now it is all falling apart because of these short term immoral players that can't keep their hands out of our wallets and can't keep their dicks in their trousers either.
Good Morning Water Signs! Lundi 3 Juillet 2023. GMT: 07.40.
It sounds like an asset stripping exercise .
Or even fraudulent behaviour!!!!!!!!
Someone could be seen going to prison
it would have been useful if Liam had explained WHY Thames Water has accrued £billions of debt
MHit 80k today. Thank you for all the knowledge and nuggets you had thrown my way over the last months. Started with 8k in Jan 2023
I would really love to know how much work you did put in to get to this stage
@@Clinton__ i engage in various prolific trade by compound interest & leveraging and as well operating with an analyst guru Mr Charles Lucas, So far I've attained returns over $10K this mon'th
Puts pay to the notion that the private sector can run a utility better than the public sector when the product is a natural regional monopoly
Shameful. I'm no lefty, but for what reason is the UKs' Water, in private hands? This, of all things, should be owned and run by the State.
It used to be state owned and if you do not recall how bad that was you are either too young or your memory is deceiving you.
I am no lefty either. If I am honest more and more I try and stay out of it.
But of all the things we could nationalise water seems like one true irrefutable necessity for everyone.
@@EppingBloggerCan I change my supplier to aid competition in the market?
Nope.
Thatcher
@@EppingBlogger Being state-owned was not as bad as you would like to make out though. And bills were genuinely low. No Shareholders rubbing their greasy little mitts together. Your water wasn't providing for the CEO's mansion.
This is due to bad management over decades. The first duty should have been to manage a schedule of improvements as part of operating costs that had first call on profits and share holders paid once that money was set aside every financial year.
Nope - not bad management, it was daylight robbery.
Who gave the order not to treat the sewage, and dump it into our rivers & seas.
Maybe do a little research before making a ridiculous comment like that and making a fool of yourself
This is a bigger problem than politics.
Much of the infrastructure is Victorian for goodness sakes. If we consider Victorian in the most generous terms (1901) that is 122 years old!!
EU rules used to prevent companies doing this. They don't anymore.
@@lloydjones7925 its almost like the company should have re-invested profits, upgraded and maintained the infrastructure for the past 30 years...
EXACTLY the same thing on the railways
Who sold them off?
Can you change supplier?
Privatise the assets and get us to pay.
Thatcher
@@Shakwackla The patriotic lady? Surely not!
@@andrewoliver8930 a proper conservative, that one........
The biggest problem for water companies is net zero bull shit and too many people in the bloody country but never mind we’re helping Ukraine
In 1992 we had 29,000 people per reservoir.
Today we have 36,000.
Demand is up 23%.
Greed Greed Greed and more Greed, this is the result, we're all guilty of it.
Not me
This is just another case of senior management pillaging the company's tangible cash/current assets, year by year by year - and replacing them with debt, until the debt mountain gets too big to service.... Execs have been doing this for generations, and ordinary workers and smaller investors are the one's who'll end up paying the price.
That is how business operate now.
Get the company assets value.
Borrow double the value in an era of cheap debt.
Get a tax advantage from the interest payments.
Dont pay the staff. Don't invest in infrastructure.
Declare whopping dividends and bonuses out of the vast borrowings.
Water companies owe £65 billion.
This debt cannot be paid back other than by us as consumers or taxpayers.
Remember the Tories designed and encouraged asset stripping and greedy profiteering
The privatised water companies have paid far more than the money they owe in dividends to shareholders. They have also incurred millions of pounds in fines from the regulator. Had Thames Water invested in its business and carried out maintenance and upgrades, it would now be profitable rather than looking for a rescue. Yet another case of privatised profits, nationalised losses.
They have paid £59 billion in dividends and £4 billion in staff bonuses.
Leaving just £2 billion for infrastructure.
@@stephfoxwell4620 Water companies are currently promising to invest £1.6bn in infrastructure improvements, so that £2bn would make a big difference.
£1.6 billion is peanuts.
£57 per household.
@@stephfoxwell4620Now you see that incompetent and greed doesn't have a race.
No mention there of poor management by people who are paid millions to " manage" . This debt just didn't happen the other day , just out of curiousity, any of the leaders of Thames Water got experience of running a company like this...😢
Top man ..
Remember when public utilities balanced the books and just provided......utilities.
i doubt they ever balanced the books whether in public or private ownership
The whole neoliberal mantra was the need to balance the books.
That was their excuse for destroying the Coal mines, shipbuilding, ports, railways,steel, etc
Yeah socialism said the torries.
Stop paying your water bill till this is sorted it's always the paying people who get hit with higher bills while the shareholders get bigger bonus
don't need to be a rocket scientist.. successive governments and their poor attempt at regulation and poor oversight
The share holders need to pay up!
💰💰💰
-14 billion why pay bonuses ??????
Nationalised risk, privatised profit...sounds like a good business plan, assuming you care nothing for society.
They don't.
Sociopaths have no empathy.
This is the Tory plan
The problem is not the debt to the investors as they have done very well. The problem is the people who require water and clean waste streams .
If the debts of all privatised utilities, railways, councils, academy trusts, NHS trusts were pulled nack i to the National debt we'd be technically bankrupt.
Adding another £1.2 trillion to the £2.7 trillion we already have.
Oh ,and the £225 billion of student debt, £835 billion of QE, £110 billion of PFI......
Give foreign people who have not paid in money and pay it from taxes - sounds very familiar
To all Thames water customers, stop paying the bbc poll tax. You will require that money to pay all future water bills.
One thing is for certain, the shareholders will not lose, they take the profits, the taxpayers will be left to pick up the shit, literally.
Interesting how GB probably agrees about companies being privatised anyway 🤷♂️
Thankfully I live in Wales and have a Private bore supply ✌️
How nice for you.
@@simonlevett4776 I used to live in Wiltshire, got charged 400 quid one summer for watering the small garden. Bullocks to that..
@@BV-co7hy Fair enough.
Where was Ofwat when this was going on. Asleep at the wheel with Andrew Bailey in the Bank of England. Absolutely disgraceful. The tax payers should not have pay for this. The British Government need to have a backbone and force the owners to respect their contractual obligations.
Just sell it back to the Public for £1 ( As the Government has done on numerous occasions for their donors ) and give the shareholders nothing, they took a gamble and made billions in divdends , now the chickens have come home to roost
Owned by UAE & China
People like me won't sign a contract and won't pay them a penny lol.
you could see this coming amile away...when thatcher privatised the water industry
there is only one question why it took so long ,,,,the water companies have been covering up for years.
Get the owners and shareholders to pay for it
Dividends, and share buybacks, must only be payable from profits. Change the Law.
Only allow a maximum of £100 for "licensing costs" allowed on a Company Tax Return. Change the Law.
We have 12 bedroom
12 bathroom suite
4 washing machine
But I don't have a swimming pool
Have a hot tub for 8 people
My water bill this year
14,, thousands pounds
If only my water company can stop
Wasting water
We are only using one bathroom for now
Street wise TAL.......
Ps my gas bill even more expensive
56 radiator
3 boliers
18 thosunds this year
Am really scared for this winter coming
Absolutely it should be the shareholders, they have taken too much out.
When I was young these debt piles were unheard of, maximum liquidity was kept down to 70%.
Nowadays most companies seem to run at 90% or more - I've never thought it was a good idea.
I expect now we will be expected to bail them out, fair enough, we will bail them out, provided its put back,into the public domain, otherwise let the Shear holders bail them out ?.
We can thank the Privatisation of national industries across the EU on EU policies . Yet another rrason that Brexit was a good idea. Now all we have to do is repair all the damage that EU membership has done and that will take years .
Monopolies should never be left to private enterprise. With no competition it's a cash cow, even more so if maintenance is pushed back to the future and oversized profits taken now. Government ownership might not be efficient but their mandate is to provide a service, not make a profit.
I don't see one feature on the French riots here on GB news??
GB news stands for Great Britain's news
Unless it's news about Trump
The French are not rioting.
Muslim residents of France are rioting.
@@jack_timber my comment still stands 😁
Or harry and Meghan.
These utility companies should never have been sold, for a start it wasn't there's to sell in the first place it's criminal what's happened.
Love the Banter!
OFFWAT need to be held to account.
The City is cleaning up !
Let it fail, its not hard to see that the whole rational behind the these numerous shareholders allowing the company to pile up so much debt is directly because people would assume that it would be bailed out eventually and if nationalised they get their shares bought off them by the UK.
AKA no risk for them, just loads of expenses on the UK.
Its need to be left to fail and have other company's buy up its assets and taken on its role. Ideally long term laws and regulations need to be removed or adjusted where necessary to allow for competition which is possible in such an industry its just uncommon. We have the same basic setup with how crap our trains and power networks, they could be done privately but as it currently is we in effect have a system that would be like allowing supermarkets to exist but having the lorrys, vans and warehouses be state owned and the locations of stores be chosen by the state which is obviously a recipe for chaos and isnt in anyway a free market.
The current set up is not actual privatisation its just corporatism, its got a state enforced monopoly with no competition and end of the day its owned by the state because of that and due to the level of control the state has over it. Slapping a stick saying privately owned on it and then allowing people to buy shares of it and take a chunk of money off it in exchange is what has happened.
Nationalising them would be a step backwards and wouldnt in anyway improve the service or in real terms make it cheaper to run as the costs would just switch over to being everyones tax instead. Let them fail, other companies will pick up the pieces, whats the point of having such a vast welfare state/"saftey net" if we dont allow anything to fail, we may as well just be a communist totally centrally run economy at that point.
Forcing them to buy more shares in the company is just kicking the can down the road, so in short the most likely outcome. Btw nationalisation will probably end up happening with it eventually, as actually trying to liberate the industry will be met by vast opposition from the left, special interests who dont want competition to enter their monopoly and most of all its too much effort for the average politician to be bothered to deal with.
Probably also got another 5 million people to serve too. Greater water demand, more sewage to deal with, more investment in infrastructure required.
The debt holders MUST be made to "take the bath" and the shareholders should either properly fund their company (it is their job / contractual obligation after all) or surrender their shares.
Water is a life giving commodity that should never have been privatised
Private profit and public debt. Weren't we sold the idea that these companies would be so much better and efficiently run once they were privatised?
The people who own Thames water don't really give a shit as long as they get there money.
Privatise the profits; Socialise the Losses.
I always wonder where our pension funds are invested as they don't seem to choose utilities to invest in but foreign companies and governments see the opportunity in what should remain, for national security, utilities owned by British institutions if not the government.
I am all for privatisation, but not without minimum levels of self-funding being in place and ring-fenced reserves. Crazy to have allowed the owners to have run up this level of debt pile....and potentially oblige the taxpayer to foot the bill when things go wrong.
I say let it go bankrupt. Then with taxpayers money start it again
VOTE REFORM
one word sums the private water companies......GREED
And one of the Brexit so called benefits during the campaign was to deregulate all services and open up Britain to outside investment so all those that pushed Brexit want more Thames Water type services in Britain paying those have invested massive dividends and supply a poorer but more expensive service. Who have gained from Brexit????
let Thames water go bust, put all ceo's & directors past & present under investigation to see their pay & bonuses etc & see how much in dividends have been paid. Why pay dividend & huge wages if they cant service their debt?
I am just going to put it out there, just a theory, but the Thames catchment area, i.e. greater London is hugely overcrowded, 90% of migrants gravitate toward that area, all the water and sewage systems needed to sustain the area are simply overwhelmed in part due to numbers. Its getting worse and worse, yes there is underinvestment and corporate greed-mismanagement but no one has suggested the human numbers involved in the mess. Why isn't immigration and the numbers involved never spoken about?
Shareholders should pay for this, it is there fault.
While profits ..who are consumers ... Now when water is till neck so now remembering the consumers for more ..more and more ..this greed culture will take everyone down
Canada can easily ship a few super tankers of potable water to our UK brethren. Prayers
Debt plus the cost of fixing the leaks and prevent sewage spills.
It was expected (by me) that Brexit would have dominoed onto these issues. Gov (cross party) has ignored this for decades. UU sponsored the local pride weekend .. i mean.. why does UU need to raise awareness of itself? Water companies have a captive market. Trains compete with cars, coaches and planes.water companies have no competition
privatise the profits .socialise the losses
If only those dividends has been invested in updating the Infrastructure. We wouldn't have a Victorian system anymore. thanks thatcher
Are the people running big businesses, banks and governments so uninformed about economics they don't understand interest rates, bond values or the need to manage these matters (among others). It seems that all politicians are PPE graduates (with very little "E" other than Keynsian stuff), PR, lobbying etc. Similarly the BoE and big business.
I suggest it is overdue to actually train people to do the jobs that need doing and to select the best people instead of chosing according to ideology, colour and who they are sponsored by in politics.
I was waiting for a car to be serviced this morning and something called Channel 5 was on a TV there. They had a pig ignorant commentator claim that £14 billion had been taken by owners and made other disobliging comments. The presenter enthusiastically welcomed the comments. There was no alternative story given.
Is it a surprise the left is winning over younger people when no one explains and defends capitalism. However badly this business has managed its debt, it will be shareholders who suffer the fall out (unless some numpty politician bails them out or nationalises them!!).
Who the FECK lets a company get that far in *DEBT*
Renationalisation= The big earners walk, we foot the bill.
The government must make their shareholders pay not the taxpayer
Who owns Thames Water?
Thames Water is a private utility company owned by Kemble Water Holdings Ltd, a consortium led by the Australian-owned Macquarie Group.
It was sold to the company in 2006 for £8bn by previous owners RWE, a German multinational energy firm.
Thames Water also has a number of shareholders, including Canadian pensions group OMERS, the Universities Superannuation scheme, BT pension scheme, the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, the China Investment Corporation and the Kuwait Investment Authority. 🤣🤣🤣 If you think Thames Water is a British owned company, well its not.
let them pay not the taxpayers shareholders &directors pay
if its nationalised the profits can on paying off our national debt
The richest place can save itself, not to take the government's funds. London takes all the advantages most of the time. Such as lots of huge infrastructure，but NE people just humble wish a bigger swimming pool or a library . When government proposed to decrease children education fund, in London every child reduce £5， in Durham every child reduce £20.
Because they know tax payers will have to pick up the bill and they get to walk away without a prison sentace that's why. Criminal irrisponsability with no criminal charges.
Let it collapse ..then let us buy it back for the people
Investors in Thames Water include my pension fund.
how many loans were taken out on the equity billions in debt coz the interest rate has risen sombody should be in for the tin tac
Too many people but not enough of em paying it's obvious
Hope the tax payer does not have to pay them anything.
14 billion over how many years block by block please.
How the F , charging enough
NO COMPANY PAYING SHAREHOLDERS SHOULD HAVE DEBT !!!!!!!!!
That is like saying no one with a mortgage should go on holiday. Loans don't work like that.
Free Energy & Water...and maybe food later.
come on...