The last 1980s Poly Synthesizer Classics for less than £$€200!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- As synthesizer prices have risen sharply over the last few years, I wanted to review what was available for less than £$€200. In this video I look at what is left and try to asses their use in a working setup.
-
Editors:
coffeeshopped.com/patch-base - Covers many synths (Mac, IOS)
squest.com/index.html - Covers many synths (Windows)
www.fm-alive.com/ Yamaha FM (Windows)
Emulators:
www.kvraudio.com/product/dexe... - Dexed (DX7) (free)
www.arturia.com/products/soft... - Various Synths
www.nilsschneider.de/wp/nils-... - K1 (free)
Old ad pictures:
www.muzines.co.uk/about
retrosynthads.blogspot.com/
-----------------------------------------------------
If you'd like to support the channel, you can check out my tracks below and please leave a like and consider subscribing:
Bandcamp
runningonair.bandcamp.com/
Spotify
open.spotify.com/artist/5fNUf...
You can also leave a donation at:
Paypal
paypal.me/runningonair?countr...
------------------------------------------------------
That theme you created with the Kawai K1 is pure magic. You are the genius, not the machine.
Many thanks! That could be the inspiration I need to finish it off!
Great video. Brilliant Music. More people should hear it.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Great video! Just discovered this as I'm currently riding high after picking up a Roland D-110 with original manual and tip sheets for £50 on Friday, from a guy who purchased it new back in the 80's. I've had the DX-100, got that for £19 in the 90's and have since replaced it with the DX-21. Thoroughly loving the sound of the D-110, it's fitted in nicely with my Acid House live rig.
Great, enjoy!
Heck this videi is pure nostalgia ❤️ I had a Poly800mk2, a CZ-101 and a D-10 back in the 80's. I still own my CZ-101 in perfect condition and still play it; today I have a small setup (Volca Keys and Beats, Behringer Crave and my beloved 101, along with a mix8 and a pair of Eris3.5 and some effect boxes of course, one of them is a Yamaha emp100 that sits in the send/return bus). Sure my setup isn't any rich or special, but it's quite enough to get some new wave emotions, and the CZ-101 plays a very important role in this (sound and nostalgia, sigh 😪 ). Thanks a lot for this video and a kiss from Italy 💋
No problem. You can do a great deal with just a small setup. I often enjoy limiting myself to one or two devices, it's a great way to provoke creative problem solving. Thanks for the comment!
I love the sound of the CZ series from Casio. I think they’re sort of like a parallel universe version of the Yamaha DX line, and I wouldn’t say one is better than other. I feel like the CZ line can get a bit warmer and fuzzier than the DX synths, which I think can punch and thwack a bit more than the CZ line.
Yes, I agree. they're quite distinct from each other. The CZ is a lot easier to program though.
The Casio CZ-series resemble more of an analog synth than an FM synth. Most sounds of a CZ sound like a Roland JX. Only with ringmodulator on, you can get FM-like sounds.
Ive not tried the jx, so can't comment on that. I'd say the CZ doesn't sound analogue, it just has its own sound.
The CZs can be very digital, especially with the undocumented, hidden waveforms (I programmed Sound Sets 23 years ago and released the syx files. A user from Japan exermined my files and found some waves that couldn’t be accessed on the Synth itself, only with a editor and a random function.). If you edited the waves, they’re gone. And boy, the sound was different. I have a DX7 now and it sounds totally different. The Casios have their charming but you really have to love them. Add FX and you‘re good. I did a lot of demos with my CZ1 which was the best of all (I had them all and some VZs). Arturia Software CZ is ok for me now, I wouldn’t buy a CZ again. To sad they never did a rack version. (The VZs are different).
If anyone is interested in the syx files, I can upload them somewhere. They’re a best of and a lot of the sounds are completely different.
They really have nothing in common with the dx line, the vz does. I have a sweet spot for the cz line, not very fun to program, but it rewards you with a diversity of lovely weirdness.
Good choice of 80's polys that can still be had for less than 200, and a well balanced summary of all of them. Three others that could be contenders for this category are the Korg Poly 800 and the Korg DW8000, and if you're very lucky, an Alpha Juno. The Poly 800 is kind of limited, plus it uses non conventional oscillators and methods of generating waveforms, but it can still produce some nice sounds. The DW8000 (and 6000) are still flying somewhat under the radar, and the combination of free running digital waveforms running through Korg's wonderful analogue filters (and amps) enables it to straddle both analogue and digital sounds. Poly 800s can be found for sub 200, and if you keep your eyes on the usual marketplaces you can sometimes find DW8000s sub 200 also, but because of their Juno name and heritage, Alpha Junos are getting hard to find in that price range but you might be lucky.
It's amazing that so many 80s polys were once easily found in that sub 200 category a few years back, but time and nostalgia has sent prices sky rocketing in recent times. For instance, I bought my Roland JX-3P in 2011 for GBP 175, and my Korg DW8000 in 2012 for GBP 160, and at the time I thought they were pricey compared with what they were going for a few years earlier! As mentioned above, you might still find a DW8000 for sub 200, but very unlikely a JX-3P as those seem to be fetching on average 500 and up. Going back many years further, I can remember when Roland Junos (6/ 60/ 106) could be had for sub 200, prices that we can only dream of today!
One thing that I would say about the CZ series, certainly going by my own experience with my CZ101 and CZ-1, is that they are very flexible and capable of a wide range of sounds. I also like that they can do the ubiquitous cold digital sounds, but can also do gritty, thick and warm too, very much straying into analogue sounding territory. They do sometimes have a unique timbre, but are easily capable of producing all the bread and butter sounds too for use in an entire track. I also have VirtualCZ, which is very good for what it is plus it acts as an excellent patch librarian for transferring patches to hardware CZs over MIDI, but I am still keeping hold of my real CZ101 and CZ-1. The 101 I've owned since 1990 and it has a lot of sentimental value (it was my first "proper" synth), and the CZ-1 was the CZ that I lusted after back in the day but it was out reach for many years. For the price I paid for my CZ-1, I'd never find another in as good condition nor at the same price.
Regardless, anyone wanting a classic 1980s poly synth for relative bargain prices, better buy one now because the prices for all 80s synths are continuing to rise. And yes, I'm kicking myself for not buying a Jupiter 8 for GBP 800 that I saw for sale in a music shop back in 1998!
Thanks for the comment! There’s a lot to unpack here, but I’ll do me best. 😊
Yes, checking the listings, the poly 800 would fit the bill, for some reason I thought they went for a bit more. The DWs, on the other hand crossed into the £300+ band some time ago. I would have loved to included the 8000, that’s one synth I’d love to have, still the ESQ1 is a good substitute.
My first poly was a CZ101 and I now have the CZ1, so no disrespect there. A lot of this is about context, if I was looking for a pad would I start with the CZ or the ESQ1? Probably the ESQ1, but if I only had a CZ, I’d make it work and sure it can do pads too.
I was wondering if the price might level off now, but I guess we’ll see.
There is little chance you are getting a working DW8000 for less than 200 GBP/EUR/USD now, outside of busted ones or clueless sellers. What I see is that you are now paying 400+ and even 400-500 is actually cheap compared to what some people are asking.
Great vid. I've got CZ3000 , Kawai K1 , and TX81z , all great stuff. One to look out for that's also part of my collection is the Korg DS8 , has real time timbre sliders that I've not seen on any other synth of the time.
Yes, that can go on the list. Thanks!
The best of Yamaha 4-op synth is the V50 Workstation. Incredibly versatile.
Thanks, yes i'll look at that.
I’ve got one of those for sale at £170 currently… best 4-op that Yamaha ever made! 😊
The Korg 707 and Ds8 fm ones I love and the Sy55 !
I used to have a ds8 and ive got the sy77, which i believe covers the rompler side of the sy55.
@@RunningonairMusic yes exactly! When you hook a Sy55 on a Dx7 it’s a bit the same without the morphing or modulating AWM with Fm possibilities. I think you know what I want to say ;) . You create fresh tracks with your synths bye the way.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Worrisome that I have all of these in one form or another… really great selection and I don’t know if I could add anything other than the aforementioned DCO models or an SY or two. That being said, your selection is in the realm of 8 bit and 12 bit only, a great place to be!
Thanks, unfortunately the SY are either too late (90s) or too expensive, but I'm sure they will get covered again at some point.
@@RunningonairMusic I think you’re probably correct. Aside from the TG33 or SY22 I reckon you’ve covered every character piece out there, absolutely sterling job
Great video. From time to time, some good opportunities might pop up. I picked up a Korg Poly61M in immaculate condition with user manual for 200 CAD (£120) and I paid 76 euros for my K1m. Not to mention I was able to grab a rig for 700 CAD (£415): Roland MKB300, Yamaha TX816, Roland D110, Roland SC8850, Roland VS880EX, a Mackie desk + a bunch of Korg and Yamaha MIDI thru boxes, all fully functional, with original power supplies and manuals.
Great collection!
This has taken me back and reminded me what I already have. Most definitely a hoarder rather than collector 😂
I still have my CZ-3000, my first ever synth. Bought new many many years ago and would never part with it. My mate had a DX7 which he eventually sold to me when he moved on to other things. There's a CZ-101 lurking somewhere which came as a freebie with an Akai S612 sampler...umm, a K1m, D110, U220 and JV1080. Just re-organising so I can have them set up and start using them again 😁
Nice, I used to have the 612, very valuable these days, in case you didn't know. I also have far too many synths!
@@RunningonairMusic I didn't even cross my mind that it might be worth something. It's lurking in my loft along with it's disk drive. I better get it out and see if it still works 😁
I do need to replace the battery in the DX7 while I think about it. I seem to remember hearing that it's soldered in which sounds like a pain.
Thanks for this trip down memory lane. You've got me thinking about other synths from years gone by. I always fancied having a Roland JX 3P, which if memory serves, I did try in a shop once or a Korg DW8000.
The Ensoniq SQ-1 can be found quite cheaply. It sounds good, it’s well-made and has a pretty good built-in sequencer.
It's just outside the '80s. So can't go on the list. :-(
@@RunningonairMusic oooh you’re right. 1990. FWIW the SQ-1 is a stripped down VFX-SD, which is from the 80s.
Cheers
I agree and may add that the sq1 can also give the Roland D-series a run for their money in the effect department. Very high quality as well as very tweakable and also available for real time modulation. Not bad for an Ensoniq synth targeted towards a budget user base. 😊
Amazing video ☺♥♪ BRO
Glad you enjoyed
PSR series, SY series ( great), Novation Bass Station2, Roland MT-32; Roland U-220, all Behringer vintage replicas ( the ones under 200), If you're lucky you can find a rack M1 for 200, Wavestations sometimes go surprisingly cheap and they're GREAT,
Sure but i limited the video to poly synths of the 1980s. I would have included the SYs but they were either too expensive or too late. The 35 for example. I almost included the M1 but it generally goes for more than £200.
After you have 1 good board, Rack is what everyone wants, it's just they don't know that and synth makers don't make them anymore. :'(
It's madness. I'd love to fill up a rack! But Integra and I'm done probably :D Doesn't go for 200 tho, it's too good.
MT-32 is absolutely horrible. Makes you sound like a cheap early 90s PC game (someone is playing a toy keyboard with built in speakers, standard basic MIDI "canned sound can vas"), why?? Well it's authentic if you want that, I guess. XD But by Jupiter, it sounds cheap.
Agree with the rest: 90s workstations
Yeah, it's amazing how cheap 90's work stations are. I may well check a few out at some point. Also interesting point about rack kit, you don't see much of it these days. Everything is desk top.
The days of the big bargains are long gone - I remember nipping into a shop in Glasgow in the 90s (bought a JV Squier Strat for £200 - you'll never see that again either) and there was a wall of DX-7s at less than £100 a pop. More recently I picked up a Roland D-110 for about £50 a few years ago and a friend recently gifted me a JV-1080, so I'm happy with that.
interesting, I manged to pickup a Korg MS10 for £9 at the Barras in the 90s. Good times for gear!
That Kawai has a really lush sound.
It certainly can do.
I remember when I got my K1 back in the 80s. I was about to die... I had a synth with a stick. All I wanted was a synth with a stick and the D50 was too expensive. I got this one used and it was... wow. I jumped on it as soon as I woke up every morning and eager to play it when I came from school. I had no social life.
Yes, it has been described as a poor mans D50, great sounding synth in its own right though.
I bought a CZ1000 new in 1985! Then had a 3000 & later a CZ1. I have the Arturia needs an “Original Mode” because all their sounds are dripping with 24bit F. So they sound very different to the originals.
some certainly do.
Turn up your voice and turn down the music. Aside to that, this video is fantastic. Keep the eighties alive. I have two DX7s, with the Supermax upgrade for 1024 patches (voices ala Yamaha lol) arpeggiator, and voice stacking (and more) for about $600 USA you can be all in for a very capable DX7.
Thanks, I'll check the levels.
Bought an Alesis QS6 for 90€, a Roland JV-2080 with orchestral card for 100€, a D-110 for 99€ and a Kawai K4 with card for 230€ from different sellers (all first owners) in 2021/22. All four in good or nearly perfect condition. Watch out, you can find them if you are patient. Greetings rom Germany! 🙂🇩🇪🤝
Good prices there! The K4 is a very nice sound, although a bit plasticky in build.
@@RunningonairMusic No, sorry, it‘s the K4r which I like better. I just had luck. The seller of the QS6 also sold a Yamaha EX5r for 350 but I wasn‘t fast enough…
I've had several synths that were in the price bracket in the past (jx8p, dw8000, dw6000) but aren't anymore. I don't miss them really. My DX7 was only 50 quid a few years ago but I need the DAC replacing (bought the part, just need someone to solder it!).
I bought a D-10 last year, 100 quid, looks brand new, with hard case. As a fan of the D50 I was expecting to hate ot but I absolutely LOVE it. It's not that hard to program, and has loads of 80s-tastic presets. Don't sleep on the drums either, very 707/505 ish.
The charm of all these early digitals is their inherent crustiness imo, plugins that emulate them sound too hifi generally
Yes, totally agree!
I've got various of the mentioned synths. They're great. Regarding the L.A. synthesis, I recently acquired an MT-100 for less than 150 usd. It's fully programmable, very close to a D-50 (only difference is you can't modulate pwm from an lfo, but you can with velocity). Resonant "filters", ring mod, simple but good sounding reverb .. worth considering.
great, I'll check it out!
Hi Juno, I have one also. How are you programming your MT-100 ?
@@resynthesizer4565 hi! I didn't get into the programming yet, but as far as I know, the 100 is fully compatible with the MT-32. There's plenty of 32 editors.
@@juno6 Yeah, it's an MT-32 crossed with a PR-100 sequencer. I've struck out on MT-32 editors. I've found one for Atari, but noting modern. Does your disc drive work ? Replacing the belt is not too tough.
@@resynthesizer4565 to be honest, I've received my MT-100 together with other great synths in a pack buy, so I didn't dedicate too much time to it... But what I can say so far is... It's a new old stock with manuals so it looks beautiful, and it sounds great. I need some time to dive deep into it yet.
Great pics! I've overlooked the D-10 and I feel like I should grab one just to see the differences with the D-50. Wish the PG-1000 worked for it.
Good idea. I have both so a comparison video could be possible. There is a controller for the d10. might be worth seeing if you can get one.
I own a D-110, which is the rack module version. It's best to have that version due to the multiple outputs if you do stuff live. Either that or the D-20 for the extra patch memory if you're really fond of making sounds for it. The synth begs for pedals but you can get some nice sounds if you use a software editor like Edisyn (presets are garbage on the module version, the keyboard set is better). I don't recommend panel diving with any of these... very annoying...
D-10 requires the PG-10 programmer.
Edisyn, Not tried it, but it looks good!
I have both (D110 + D550) and can tell you that the D-110 is not only a stripped-down version of the D-550 synthesizer. The D-110 has a very different sound engine character. The sound of synthetics is brighter and richer (Structure SYN, not PCM). It's like comparing 32 kHz VS 44 kHz, where D50 = 32kHz . For me personally, the D-110 is one of my favorite digital synths for polysynth sounds. But it should be said that the PCM part on D-110 is not particularly interesting. On D-550 PCM is more extended. And.... D-110 has real cool delay algorithm, based on RV2 pedal. It's a primitive delay, but it sounds great, distant, natural, soft... I think it's because of the RV2 reverb chip that adds diffusion to the delay, making the repeats more natural and soft. PS: Im not sure that the keyboard D-10 sounds exactly like the rack D-110... sometimes keyboard versions sound brighter from rack brothers...For example JV-80 is brighter than JV-880... JD-800 is brighter than JD-990, some said D-50 is brighter than D-550
There are also a few ensoniq synths that are still affordable (vfx, ts, sq), the crumar bit is still my favorite (some sellers have tried to inflate its value, but these can still be found for rather cheap as they're not that rare).
It's pretty unlikely to get cheap ensoniq gear these days, except the sq range, but they were released in the 90s.
When talking dx line don't forget the fb01 and the tq5!
I'd not heard of the tq5, unusual looking box. The fb01 is fairly cheap, seems like a good option. Thanks!
@RunningonairMusic tq5 is similar to the tx81z in archetecture but it also has a 8track sequencer and effects.
I would argue that the DX series can do lush pads and strings just fine. You might need an external chorus unit, but you can get a secondhand boss chorus pedal for pretty cheap.
Sure. I was just looking at the synths in isolation, but in the real world, we would add effects to get the best out of them.
Watching this while not even having £$€5
Well there's loads of free plugins at least.
I had the D10 together with a MMT8 sequencer. Loved the multi-timbral abilities, which many modern synths lack. Wouldn’t buy one now though. I have a Roland JV1010 now, which is small, dirt cheap, sounds good, houses an expansion board and is also multi timbral. I’m also looking for a Yamaha TG500 (expanded rack version of SY85) as I’ve already got a great keyboard on my DSI Rev2. I wouldn’t say no to a Novation KS4 either, if it comes up below $200 again..
Yeah, ive been looking at the jv1010. Ill see what i can get out of the d10 but will probably move it on at some point, as i have the d50 too.
Some Elka EK22/EK44 (1986) can be found around 200£, they are basically a DX7 with even better effects for the EK44 and 18 voices polyphony. I have a D5, very good basic synth if you plug it with some external effects. Quite punchy for an entry-level synth.
I couldn't find much sales info on the Elkas, but sure fits the time period. It's good you're getting use out of the D5, I kind of wrote it off, which may have been a bit unfair.
@@RunningonairMusic Elka are from Italy. Popular organs but not so popular synths. The D5 is a limited D10 and lacks of many features but the waveforms are the same and with some external effects or a guitar pedal and it certainly sounds as good as the rest of the D-Series.
@@snikeplassken Yes, I am aware of Elka. If I get the chance, I'd quite like to have a look at those synths.
Where have you seen an ELKA EK22 for £200? The only listings I can see are 1200+, also the EK22 is subtractive whereas the EK44 is FM.
Forgot to mention that you can have DX7 mk1 in a box called TX7 for about $200 .
yes, that does look possible!
I have enough gear, but I watch these synth and tech oriented videos because of the people and the music. For example the music this video - very interesting and moody. How could one possibly find stuff like this from any of the so-called "music services".
Thanks, I use my own music, so I'm not sure how you would go about finding something similar.
Edisyn is the Editor that covers many of the synths you showcase....
Yes, i think that's the one that does the d110.
Wow, I am sure a synth hoarder!. I have these from the ones commented (or very close): VZ-1, K-1, DX-7, DX-11, D-50. And then 50+ more 😅
So, yes, I am officially a synth hoarder! (BTW, my DX-7, with a hard case and all original, was just 200€ in 2019, quite a deal!)
50!! I think I'm up to about 15, which is far too many!
@@RunningonairMusic Yes... and the thing is that I began playing keyboards in February 2018, so all of them have been bought in just about 5 years and a half. I have an excuse 😉... Beginning to play at 50, as I did, you can't just say "I have all my life to get the synths I love". So I opted for the other option: looking for good opportunities and taking them!. The problem is that I am buying things online before eBay ever existed (around 1994 or so), so I have practiced quite a lot and can find treasures too easily 😅 so my GAS outbreak, which was mainly on 2018-2021 period, provided 95% of those synths. Then I began to play on a band and selected the gear I wanted to use live, which is a Montage 6 and a MODX6+, depending on gig (the later is also used on rehearsals). So most other synths are now conveniently stored, waiting for my new studio setup, which I hope will be done during next year. Plenty of toys, yes, but you know, you only live once! 🤔
nice!
I had a Juno 60, a Juno 106, a D50 and an S550 sampler. If I still had these I could probably sell them and buy a Ferrari.
Well, maybe a deposit.
You can basically get a DX11/TX81z for very cheap, get an DSR-2000... It's fully programmable via a free online editor, and it uses the same OPZ fm chip.
great tip! doesn't look that bad either.
@@RunningonairMusic not at all, great built quality.
Gear I once owned and sometimes regret selling: CZ101, JX3P, DR110, and DW6000. The DW6000 was a great synth. I wonder how much they sell for now?
Around £300, last time I saw one.
@@RunningonairMusic Thanks!
A few years ago I would have said add the TX7 to the list but they have gone up recently. I have TX7 and its a great alternative to the DX7 if you have other midi keyboads.
Yeah, used to have one. It was my first fm synth.
Just my two pennies here, I think it probably serve a new user better to spend just a little more on newer models like Yamaha MX, Casio CTX or a Roland Juno DS. I know ya lose a bit of Synth control, but the sound is so much better.😁🎶🎹🎶Play On
I'm not sure I'd recommend any hardware except the basics for a new user. But either way, the simpler the better. The video is just meant for people that are interested in old kit but don't have much cash.
Just had a look for the Cz and DX11 - now all over £200. I had a DX27 as a student and sold it - gutted!
Just be patient and something will come up. 😃
Nice video. Anyone ever use the kawai mm16 with any if the synths? Never heard of them til today
No don't know that one.
@@RunningonairMusic yeah I'm the same. Interesting little thing
What about Yamaha SY? The 22, 55 and 85 are all often found for less than £200. The 55 especially is a fantastic rompler with hundreds and hundreds of sounds available.
good value but just inside the 90s. :-(
The CZ emulators don't have the DACs the 'real hardware' does.
Those output stages really make a real difference.
While the patches on the software sound spot-on from a synthesis perspective,
the audio rate and output sounds too 'sterile' to the real hardware.
Close, but not exact.
Yes, it could well be that, as well as all those ageing electronic components.
@@RunningonairMusic
I had the CZ-5000 as a 'hand me down' from my dad.
I would still take the 5000 over any of the emulators out today.
Exactly. That's why plugins still (all of them) sound like plugins. They are missing all the technical build in technical components of the vintage synths. That's what gives them the beloved character and not their digital OSC - which of course can be replicated by a plugin.
The very best emulation of an FM synthesizer I know is Plogue OP7. But even this software beast gets pale, if I switch on the CZ-3000, the VZ-1 or the DS-8.
Sadly the Roland Alpha Juno 1 is typically a little outside of this price range today. I am thinking the ESQ1 is a little outside of this range too. At least here in the US.
Yeah, the esq is around £500 here.
UVI came out with the entire Kawai emulation less than 6 months ago. Also can you shed some light on the drum machine like the yamaha and roland high end drum machine. Uvi i think also has a casio emulation as well.
Thanks I'll check those out.
Personally I probably won't call D-10 a true synthesizer
really, why's that?
I've 2 if them and have the programmer. They are definitely synthesisers if you have the time to program it. With a chorus / delay pedal you can sound v like the pet shop boys. D10 is basically d50 without FX.
as of 11th july prices have increased on all those models by 15% across the board
Ok
@@RunningonairMusic i have ordered a roland pc160a midi and use VST for now until i can get experience enough to buy a roland d50 even a yamaha dx at a push
As a D-50 owner I’d say that if I were on a budget and couldn’t afford a D-50 id go for a D-20, it’s not as good of a synth but the multitimbrality, sequencer and drum sounds make it a better all around keyboard than the 50, with that I’d rule a D-10 or D-5, much rather have the 20
So you'd prefer a d10 to 20? May have misunderstood. I have but they need fixing. It could be some time before I have to choose between them.
@@RunningonairMusicI just re-phrase it, the D-50 is hands down the better synth vs the D-5/10/20/110, the amount of all around support for it is excellent but as you mentioned it nowadays over $500 is the norm, if I couldn’t splurge that much as a second choice id take the D-20 easy, there very undervalued if you are willing to put some time and really diving into its features
If you already own a decent keyboard, a D-110 would also be an option instead of a D-10.
Yes, you don't need the keyboard.
I netted a GR-50 guitar synth for a shade over a hundred clams a while back. It's essentially a D-110 with a GK-to-MIDI converter grafted onto the front end of it.
Why not to mention Kawai K4, in my opinion excellent synth with mighty sound comparable with M1, much more advanced than FM Yamaha DX series. Keybed is slightly weighted, pleasant to play on, convincing pads and very useful effects on board.
Yes, great synth but too expensive these days.
@@RunningonairMusic Well, I haven't checked recently, but last time when I saw it in advertisement the price was 100$ here ( Croatia).
Just checked, it's a bit of a mixed picture but yes there have been few going cheap, so yes it could go on the list.
@@RunningonairMusic Today it is very rare, but still rather useful, with really competitive sounds, even if we talk only about factory presets. In good hands and with a bit of knowledge on sound editing, it can still be a beast. But anyway, today we can make wonders with the cheapest machines just with a bit of modern technology.
Good call, I'll mention it in the next video.
Yamaha and Casio were late to the party. FM was kind of a struggle for any kind of patent. As a result, 50x the parameters to get slight variations on "every sound a metal bell sound". Yamaha stuck with it, but not many FM synth models were made, and nothing separated the models. Casio, well they also never did a flagship model.
At the same time, simply a filter sensitive to expression, or an actual performance section in a synth (if it has to have a keyboard!) is more revolutionary to sound, than any existing flagship sound circuit.
I don't think anyone should limit themselves to the 80s, and certainly not analog. My best fit for the category (if it has to have a keyboard!) is a 90s digital workstation. Fantastic value for money, and often come with a high-end keyboard (if it has to have a keyboard!) PLUS sequencer which is great for DAWless or live.
That said, my best picks is Ensoniq (all of them) and you can also still get a Roland D-50 for virtually nothing in most countries. But a Roland JD-Xi beats all of these, and I recommend it to anyone.
But why does "authenticity" have to come at the price of a dinner for you and the wife? Why are the ones struggling for authenticity needing another keyboard, and can't pay more than 2 months worth of food for the cat? Who are these people and why are you making a video for them? :D
The 1986 Casio CZ-1 was most definitely Casio's Phase Distortion flagship model. 8 voices of polyphony (16 voices in single oscillator mode), multi timbral, splittable keyboard, velocity and after touch keyboard with envelopes that can vary depending on velocity (the only CZ model with these features), plus the legendary PD 8 stage envelopes. It was, and still is, a very powerful and flexible synth that sounds great. It's also a heck of a lot easier to program than the Yamaha DXs!
And don't forget Casio's FZ-1 sampler/ synth range and also the CZ successor, the VZ-1 range. Both cutting edge synths with many professional features. Granted the VZ wasn't anywhere near as popular as the FZ, likely because it too shared the frustratingly complex programming that hampered users of Yamaha's DX series. The FZ in comparison was very successful, finding its way into many studios and into the hands of many pro musicians thanks to its powerful sampling features plus unique sounding and characterful filter.
At the turn of the 90s, Casio dropped out of the "Pro" market to concentrate more on their home line of keyboards and digital pianos. Other than the 2000 MZ2000 arranger (that had a powerful synth section among the arranger features), and the 2012/ 13 XW-P1 and G1 synths, it seems that Casio have largely turned their backs on the pro synth market :-(
Many interesting points here.
Firstly, I’m not suggesting that anyone should limit themselves to ‘80s synths that cost less than £200. The video is just about looking at what is available.
I agree that ‘90s workstations are better value for money, but the video is about '80s synths. I am also a big fan of the Ensoniq, although they normally cost more than £200, similar with the D50. Obviously, these prices depend on where you are, so if you can get a D50 for next to nothing, then I wouldn’t bother with a D10.
So, why did I make the video? Well, I’ve never had much money to spend on synths, so my focus has always been on what is best value for money. I’m also interested in vintage gear because I started writing electronic music in the ‘80s. Put those things together and you get a video like this. It seems this is also of interest to others, I guess they have their own reasons, which may be similar.
@@RunningonairMusic fair I guess. Any criticism was directed at people I see, a group of people that posts the most often in any synthesizer group: not thinking of all the money they already spend on phones and gadgets, and music gadgets. But the thing actually making the sound, your instrument, has to be on a too tight budget - and besides, I'll never spend any money on a desk or stand, so it must be small. This is tied in with DAWs, making music on laptops, and various subscription models, too. The real thing can't cost ANYTHING!
I think I'm right in saying Casio never had success in pro studio gear, workstation or not. That's not quite true for Yamaha, who made much better patents with VA and BC3.
My second criticism is the versatility and usability of the instrument. Casio today fills a LoFi niche, and FM really has very limited expression, even more than analog.
The best bang for buck IMO (and it's not really subjective opinion) is
1. JD-Xi. Recommend this to anyone. Yes, minikeys. Yes, workstation. Yes, pure joy to use.
2. 90s workstations. Pure insane value! 90s stuff works with SCSI2SD adapters for easy patch storage, too. Has drums too mostly like 5. below so you save expense. A point to consider.
3. Deepmind 12 for ambient. Behringer anything, really. Authentic.
4. Roland V or Ensoniq anything.
5. Any digital synth really. Programmability fun varies, but that's because they do much more with their 1000 parameters than FM does with its 1000.
Anyway that's why I found this particular one strange. There are bargains out there, if they fit in the music you make. Have a good one. :)
I wish I could get my CZ-1000 working.
What's wrong with it?
@@RunningonairMusic Boots up frozen.
could be tricky to fix.
Finding a DX100 for £200 would be an achievement.
Yes, they generally go for more, from what I've seen.
You can often find the functionally identical DX27, or sometimes a DX21 (better in every way) for that price.
@@infindebula the dx100 is the only one I don't have already. Mainly because of the premium people put on it. The 27 is the one I tend to go for in most cases.
@@Gainn the DX21 was the first polysynth I owned, back when they were new. I had it for a couple years until the DX11 came out, which I jumped on.
Accessing the ROM presets in the DX21 is a PITA, but it adds a pitch envelope that the 27 and 100 don’t have, which makes it really useful for FM drum sounds and effects. It also has a mediocre onboard stereo chorus, and split/layer.
Just picked up a D10 for £41
Nice!
Korg DS-8?
Yes, going cover that in part 2!
@@RunningonairMusic DS-8 was my second synth. My first was an EML-101 which was sort of a Minimoog/ARP-2600 competitor. A sweet little 2 oscillator analog machine. Rather rare today. Wish I still had it. Not so much the DS-8.
You could have mentioned the Korg Poly 800.
Yes, that was the one that got away, although if i was nitpicking, i could say it's paraphonic not polyphonic. Still, now i know they're cheap i might get one to try out.
They tend to go for over 200 outside of certain presumed exceptions.
@@RunningonairMusic for the longest time, the Polly-800 was the cheapest analog synth you could buy, it probably still is, but recently I’ve seen people asking twice as much from what they were selling for previously.
@@mastercylinder1939 I've seen a few going cheap so I might pic one up at some point.
The Korg DS8 is a rather cheap synth. It's a strange one: FM synthesis with performance controls. Really weird, and well under 200€.
Used to have one but never really got on with it. Might give it another go at some point.
Bought a DX7 for £400......sold that on and a couple of months ago I landed a DX11 for £175
Sounds about right on price. Which synth do you prefer?
@@RunningonairMusic I actually prefer the DX11 for sound design but the keyboard action on the DX7 was just the best I ever used....if only I could have both at once
Yeah, it's got a good reputation. I've sy77, which should cover me for all my fm needs. That's got a nice keyboard too.
@@RunningonairMusic The DX7 certainly was the best keyboard action I ever used. It went to a DX collector so I know it’s well loved and used
You would have to be very lucky to find any casio cz for under 200 anything, in any sort of decent shape...
Check the sold listings. They are there but there's no way to know about the condition until you get your hands on them.
@@RunningonairMusic OK, maybe I'll try to snipe some auctions again then, 😀 I tried before but no luck.
It's all part of the fun 😄
Picked up a fully working CZ-101 last year for £200 and I absolutely love it. Also spotted a CZ-5000 only last week going for only £190 with just one missing button, so they're definitely about for that sort of money if you search hard enough. Also, let's not forget the CT-6500. I picked one up recently for £130. Technically speaking it's just a preset keyboard with a rudimentary and very eighties soundset, but it's also based on phase distortion so hook it up to a PC via midi and you can program pretty much any sound you can get out of a CZ series. A bit of a sleeper if you're looking for CZ sounds on a tight budget.
Well, I have to say that a CZ-101 for less than $300 is impossible, and I'm outside UK, here it's going to be $400+.
The larger CZ synths you can get maybe not for $200, but certainly under £200, so yup, you are correct, you can find CZ synths for under 200 something.
But, and I guess that's why the CZ-101 is so expensive, I don't have space for the larger ones, so that doesn't help ME. 😀
Ebay prices in 7/6/2023 show a very different thing! The average price for any of these synths is between $300 to $2000USD!! Not affordable anymore!!
Are you looking at the sold prices? There's a lot stuff that won't sell when it's over priced. All the prices in the video are recent, but they are the sold prices.
@@RunningonairMusic Noo, on sale now prices. And most items are in JAPAN. But yes, I can imagine the sold items would be less as thusly they sold 😛. But yeah, as someone looking to buy one of these now, no go! I will wait for Craigslist or when I go down to Florida to the fleamarkets and pawnshops cause Ebay is too over priced all the sudden.
Yeah, the Japanese stuff is well over priced. Good luck finding some deals!
I see hardly any synths for less than 200, only D10, D20, D110, TG55, SY22, Proteus.
The listings i put in the video were taken from ebay and are no more than 2 months old. So they are all within that price range for now, at least.
@@RunningonairMusic Then eBay UK prices are different. On mainland Europe it seems as if everyone wants to make money. Prices are going up.
Interesting. One thing to note is reverb is always more expensive, in case you were looking there.
@@RunningonairMusic just belgian and dutch 2nd hand websites and eBay on which some ask exuberant prices. 🤷
One last thought. I listed sold prices. List prices are often more and won't sell or are haggled down by the buyer.
The Roland D5 is often more expensive than a D10. And it's not as reliable as a D10.
Interesting about the reliability. The ebay listings i found tended to show the d5 being a lot cheaper than the 10.
Most often the buttons of the D5 will fail. Since the D10 only has a reverb effect and no chorus, it seems to be better to buy a D5 and use external effects.
You'd probably save a bit of money there. I expect it would be possible to get better tact switches for the d5 and replace the lot. I'm going to have to do that on mine.
I had a D10 for years. Thin, sterile, a total cheese-fest. Hated it. Worst synth I've ever owned.
Lol 😄