I can believe your channel's growing exponentially! Quality is the watchword. I had to check when the Silk 700S was manufactured, but it was from 1975 onwards, so the 'Kettle' was well before it. Lovely British bike though. I agree with you about Wikipedia - often inaccurate, so needs cross-checking.
I did say that Scott weren't first but if the H/W was watercooled that pre dates the 1899 Holden I came across. Ive heard a few sources say the hildebrand and wolfmuller was the first motorcycle, but ive got it dated at 1894 as the first multi cylinder, but ive got the Rietwagon as the first motorcycle from 1885, are my dayes out?
@@barebonesmc H&W was the first series production bike offered on the market… as opposed to prototypes and owner constructed machines, like the Daimler Einspur (or Reitwagen) of 1885, and I guess, as Americans consider 3 wheelers as motorcycles, the Benz Patent-Motorwagen ("patent motorcar"), built in 1885 and normally considered the first series production car, is a motorcycle too. That strange looking rear mudguard on the H&M is actually the coolant header tank/radiator. Your references to the Suzuki amused me, as I worked at a bike shop when the GT750 was released with advertising claiming it as the 'first water cooled two stroke'. After Suzuki GB were approached by Scott aficionados, they changed it to 'the first water cooled two stroke triple'… again contested by Scott fans as the short lived (due to WW2) 747cc 3S was unveiled at Olympia in ’34 and finally production began as a 986cc tourer in very small numbers in ’39, before being immediately cancelled. Then again, Suzuki's marketing monkeys had form for this kind of thing, as they advertised the T500 in the States as the first road going 500cc 2 stroke twin (again, Scott had one much earlier, as did DKW) Suzuki crowed over Yamaha about their 'Pozi' lubrication system (direct to bearings) being better than Yamaha's Autolube… but my brother has a French Soyer 2 stroke from 1922 with a similar direct to bearings oiling set up from a separate oil reservoir, and Scott (yet again) had a system similar to Yamaha's from before WW1. As for electric start as standard fitting, the Germans had it on several scooters in the fifties (using the dynastart system).
@@chrisgraham5186 interesting. guess ill need to look at electric starters again :-) Makes me wonder how the industry would have progressed without the interference of the war.. The 500 DKW sounds interesting too, ill have a dig an see :-) cheers for your wonderful and helpful additions :-)
Hi, I am 77 yo and spent a lot of holidays, with my Guzzi 850, in Italy near the lake of Como. I met a gentleman driving an old Moto Guzzi Alce. His name was Pierluigi Greppi. We became friends. Pierluigi was an engineer and in college, he had a classmate named: Giulio Cesare Carcano. Because I was full of admiration for Sign. Carcano, Pierluigi asked if I would like being introduced to him. We met for a coffee at the lakeside in Varenna. The next year we met again and sign. Carcano only could remember my dog, a beautiful Irish Setter. 😂
Love the list. As a young man when the Genesis was released the 1000cc was a dream bike for me. Never had one. I did rebuild a GT750, but only once. Parts was a nightmare to get hold off. Japanes bikes from the late 70s to end 80s is my passion.
I always thought that the late great John Britten,,,his motorcycle would carry on and be produced for the world,,,but must have been too much for anyone else to manufacturer..R.I.P Mr.J.Britten.
Not a first in the motorcycle industry but a first for me was my 1976 Norton Commando 850 Interstate that was just under three years old when I bought it. This was the first bike I had owned that had a disc brake. Somebody somewhere (in Norton?) decided that a rusty front disc was not a pretty thing, so my bikes disc was chrome plated, this worked well enough in the dry, but I still vividly remember the first time I applied it in the wet (approaching the outskirts of a village called Congresbury on the A370 from the direction of Weston-s-Mare). It was a Sunday late afternoon and there was a little traffic about. As the cars in front of me started to slow for the 30 mph limit through the village, I just gave the front brake a little touch...... nothing, I squeezed more, still nothing, more brake and finally the brake pads squashed all the water off of the disc, where it was being held by the chrome and I damn near locked the front brake, in traffic, in the wet. Fortunately my reactions in those days were lightning fast and in the half a second this all took to occur I figured out what was happening, applied the back brake too and was able to release a little pressure from the front brake lever just before the wheel locked up.
cheers mate, if you fancy a laugh have a watch of the "motorcycle conversation with Chat GPT" video on the channel :-) i did it when i was researching this and it shows one of the major flaws very succinctly :-) Cheers for watching, Ride Free
Lovely video! Thanks for all the effort you put into this. Something I learned a long time ago is that when it comes to car and motorbike tech, there's always someone who did it earlier than you at first believed. And your research certainly shows this :) When I go to car and bike meets today, I'm usually drawn to these very early vehicles and just marvel at the technical details. It's very interesting to see all the different technical solutions they came up with before everybody settled on what eventually was found out to work the best, or ways to get around patented solutions.
cheers for the comments mate, much appreciated. I do find it all fascinating. and yep, the engineering tricks you find sometimes are fascinating. enjoy the ride mate
@@barebonesmc Sometimes, the early adoption of innovations we now take for granted were too much for the metallurgy or the lubricant technology of the day. Parallel twins are normally thought of as originally a Triumph thing (from the Val Page and Edward Turner designs), before being adopted by most of the other British bike companies… at least as 4 strokes, though the previously mentioned Scott two strokes were mostly parallel twins… and if you want double overhead cam twins, then in the fifties, exotic smaller Italian marques, and later Honda in the mass produced world, spring to mind. Suzuki pioneered production 8 valve DOHC parallel twins with the GSX 250 and GSX400 later still. However Peugeot's 500M race bike was (it's believed) the first DOHC, 8 valve, parallel twin motorcycle, and appeared in 1914. Unfortunately, the metallurgy of the time made the engine fragile. In much later years, the mighty Honda factory's products suffered from their technology demanding too much from the oils available. The sixties' S600 sports car needed far more frequent oil changes than the car world was accustomed to, and I can remember a London motorcycle despatch company in the early seventies being caught out by the short (and critical) oil change intervals on the Honda twins they chose for their fleet bikes. I rode for a competitor company who chose Suzuki GT250s, and people thought they were mad using 2 strokes, but the Hondas the other company tried suffered worn out or seized cam bushings if they exceeded the 1500 mile (IIRC) service interval. It only took a couple of winter crash repair jobs in the fleet's workshop to delay a service by a week… but a week could be another 1000 miles on the overstressed oil. The Suzies we used, being two strokes, always had fresh oil running through the places that mattered, so a week's delay didn't hurt them. Those little twins survived up to 50K miles a year of merciless thrashing and were sold at a year or 18 months old.
Glad you enjoyed it mate, Im glad I found some surprises :-) after a chat yesterday I found out about another bike I had never come across from one subscriber so its all about the learning :-) ride free
A few comments to an otherwise good show; The Vincent used a monochok rear suspension long before Yamaha, and it was not the diskvalve but the ekspansion exhaust that made the difference for MZ.
I have been wrong before :-) Im only human. as I understand it The Vincent was almost but not quite a monoshock was it not a triangulated canteliver with 2 shocks at the top ? as to MZ, I understood DKW as it was were the pioneers of the rotary disc valves, the exhaust may well have been another of their breakthroughs but was it someone else who pioneered the disc valve? Glad you enjoyed it anyway mate, :-) cheers for watching mate, enjoy the ride
@@barebonesmc Sorry it took a while, but I have never concitered the Vincent as anything but a monoshock, it had 2 spring/dampers, but only because he couldn´t get one strong enough. It was still a sigle unit. For many years I drove a Yamaha TR1 XV 1000, a Vincent copy, with a single spring/dampener, and I se no difference between it and the Vincent in that regard. And the trick, like the Vincent, of turning the springforces to almost horizontal, gives a very, very pleasant feeling. Some say the TR1 is a poor Harley copy, but it is not. It can both stop and drive around corners, and does not leave a trail of spare parts in its track.. As for the MZ, here are a litle film about the industrial espionage, I think you might like to se. ua-cam.com/video/1qccejmqbPg/v-deo.html I have seen a couple of films in german, with the paticipants from back then, and, belive me, they did NOT like the guy who went to Japan. ;o) And, btw, I have had both Suzuki and MZ twostrokes.
@@noahwail2444 I always liked the TR1, an underrated bike, I guess its semantics with the Vincent, I would describe it as a triangulated cantilever system but not a monoshock purely and simply because as you say, the tech wasnt available for him to use one stronger rear damper. Ill take a look at the film :-) cheers for watching mate, enjoy the ride
The beautifull alumium frame was the reason I changed from an FZ to an YZF. On a straight road, at top speed, the steel frame of the FZ was more stable
the vincent was a cantilever, but not a monoshock as such, because no single shock was strong enough at the time, the scott, ill be honest and didnt know at all, i thought it went from rigid to twin shock, what years did it go monoshock? I know he tried telescopic front for a year or 2 but then went back to girder front forks so nothing would surprise me with Alfred Scott 🙂
Honda's C102 Cub 50s had electric starters back into the early 1960s. The C102 went on sale in the US on 07/01/1960 followed by the CA102 on 08/02/1962.
The CA71 250cc Dream was released in 06/04/1959 and the CE71 followed on 09/01/1959. The 305cc Dreams C-CA76 models were also released on the same 09/01/1959. These bikes were US spec versions of the domestic 250-305 Dreams sold previously in Japan. Only the first generation models C70-C75 Dreams came without electric starters.
@@williamsilver6109 you see this is why the world needs more specialists 🙂 thank you William, If i ever need any dream twin info i know where to come 🙂 thanks again my friend. much appreciated
What about the 1948 royal Enfield bullet being the first full production motorcycle to have rear swing arm suspension 🤔 I'd say that was more important than alot of things on the list
What I was told and it may not have beenthefirst, but very definitely an important innovation was Royal Enfields cush drive rear hub. Still used today and the reason why we don't blow our transmissions up. Even with slipper clutches, it is still being used. Also, I thought it was FN that first put electric lights on a motorcycle? Or was it FN that first put lights on a motorcycle, as in magnesium strip lights?
the cush drive is a good one mate cheers, and i may be wrong on the lights, i do dig deeply but im not infallible 🙂 i would have thought acetyline lamps on the FN, but dont quote me lol
@barebonesmc heck yeah, you dig deep! Some of those really surprised me! One thing for sure is people tend to repeat things they hear without checking the facts. Keep up the good work!
The VF750F of 1983 had anti dive forks - before the USA’s Night Hawk. By all accounts they didn’t actually work very well. Both mine are still in pre restoration stage. The European model is in bits, whilst the rarer Marysville USA model is almost complete but not running.
@@barebonesmc Yep, I know a little bit about a lot of things too. If you asked me about Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, most Triumphs, Nortons etc. I would not be commenting. But a few Hondas, including the VF750F Interceptors, some Velocettes I’ve collected some half decent reliable knowledge. Some of it is first hand. Ride safe
Back in the 70’s the japanese made stainless steel brake discs were more or less a disaster waiting to happen. People drilled holes in the discs to aid transport of water, but it only got reasonable when the first brake pads with sintered metal in the brake pad became standard that there was some relief. The italian motorcycles with their cast iron brake discs had no problems with braking in the wet, but the discs turned rusty, and with that, the brake pistons too.
had this conversation in another comment :-) as far as i am concerned i would describe the vincent as a cantilever, which yes it was first, but at the time he couldnt source 1 shock strong enough so 2 were used, hence it isn't really a monoshock despite being a cantilever system, does that sound about right? :-) Cheers for watching mate, ride free
FZR1000 EXUP was all aluminium Deltabox. They used a part Aluminium frame on the early Genesis 1000 but replaced it with a frame developed from the OW01 FZR750 which was the original Deltabox perimiter frame with no steel side supports like the early Genesis had. Even the latest R1 chassis are similar and the FZR1000 Chassis hardly changed at all for almost 25 years, Think youll find thats right mate, I do have 2 89 EXUP's :-) Cheers for watching, ride free
I just checked back. Vincent used twin shocks, but basically the had centre shocks and stressed engine design in the very early Fifties. They may have earned the title of pioneers there. An anti dive system was available with the Suzuki Katana in 1982, and I vaguely remember that BMW had something like that even earlier, so Honda may even have been somewhat late to the show there.
yep, the Vincent was the first cantilever rear end i think too. as to the anti dive, all i can go on is what i (think i ) know and what i can find out mate, they may have had earlier anti dives. i know they were being used on the race bikes, but i dont remember any on the road until 84, if the first Katana had them im obviously wrong though 🙂 ill see what i find when i get chance, cheers, and have a great weekend
@@barebonesmc Just take a look at the front brakes of the Katana. It's pretty obvious. The way I understand it, Suzuki used a different system from Honda, though, the brake pressure itself was used to stiffen up the compression stage of the shock absorber. I am pretty sure they had it on at their introduction in 1982.
I don't know if it as already been said, but Sammy Miller has an aluminum framed BSA racing bike in his museum, the bike is on one of his videos. Sammy has lots of rare and prototype engines and bikes
A true giant of the bike world and a gent to boot. Didnt know about an ally frame BSA though. Hope you enjoyed the video mate 🙂Cheers for watching. Ride Free 🙂
@@barebonesmc The video is Sammy Miller favourite motorcycles, he shows the aluminum bike and a BSA twin DOHC 4 valve racing bike that the management at BSA stopped from racing at Silverstone, also a funny story about another DOHC 4 valve racing bike called a Reg and Honda wanting to visit his " factory". ua-cam.com/video/LgjMF5kTqfQ/v-deo.html
There was no Velocette company. Only the bikes were called Velocettes, which were manufactured by the family owned Veloce Ltd of Hall Green, Birmingham. The family name was Goodman, an Anglicised version of their real German name Gutmann.
@@barebonesmc Well my Dad had a GTP and two MOVs, and somewhere I’ve got 1.5 LE 200s, and as a teenager I joined the owners club. Many unfinished projects.
Ha, I remember a few years ago a radio jock did a quiz question and he changed the name on Wikipedia to Mickey Mouse. It was an unbelievable answer, but didn't stop people thinking the internet is always right 😂
good one mate, i do actually like being proven wrong unusually lol, im not infallible, i do try though, as i have often said, if we could amass the combined knowledge of all the subscribers we would have the most comprehensive motorcycle encyclopedia ever 🙂
yes triangulated cantilever but it used a dual shock system, apparently there was no shock strong enough to use a single unit at the time so i have been told
@@barebonesmc because of the fram and because there 125cc all videos just talk about 300 _1000cc bikes but I'm a 125 man 250cc no good to me & both nsr and tzr had the bigger brothers as well and the nsr was a racing bike
@@rabone1968 the frame had been done before on the FZR though, and ive got nothing aagainst smaller bikes at all, i talk about more smaller bikes than most but i guess i could look at doing something 125cc specific, ill have a think
@@barebonesmc no for real. I like mastering the bike... i grew up with bikes getting better and better but for me the slipper clutch made all the differencevon the road. Keep up the good work.
@@eatsblades being honest, i just dont get them, ive been doing clutchless gearchanges since I had a BSA A7 clubman racer. and thats a while ago now. try and sell me the difference it makes in the real world
The most damaging developments in motorcycle design have been the introduction of EFI and all the fake climate legislation induced pointless emissions nonsense. The introduction of EFI requires a pressurised fuel system, replacing the omission of gravity fed fuel to carburettor system which has worked fine for 100 years. The number of messages that the ECU needs to receive from a myriad of sensors before it will start is simply ludicrous. And a flat or even low battery that’s deemed incapable of running the fuel pump and the starter, can also guarantee that a modern bike won’t start. In a full analysis, none of these systems represent genuine positive improvements in the long run. Indeed they shorten the potential useful economic life of the bikes to which they’re fitted. They also pander to the modern type of leisure rider for whom a bike is a means to look good whilst sipping overpriced coffee, and pretending to be on an adventure…!
its a triangulated cantilever on the Vincent with 2 underseat shocks, apparently because he couldnt source a single spring strong enough lol, Cheers for watching mate 🙂 Ride Free
I can believe your channel's growing exponentially! Quality is the watchword. I had to check when the Silk 700S was manufactured, but it was from 1975 onwards, so the 'Kettle' was well before it. Lovely British bike though.
I agree with you about Wikipedia - often inaccurate, so needs cross-checking.
the Silk was the final incarnation of the Scott in many ways, just about 70 years on from the first 🙂 cheers for watching mate, I do my best 🙂
@@barebonesmc Even Alfred Scott was pre-empted with water cooling… by the world's first production bike, the Hildebrand and Wolfmüller.
I did say that Scott weren't first but if the H/W was watercooled that pre dates the 1899 Holden I came across. Ive heard a few sources say the hildebrand and wolfmuller was the first motorcycle, but ive got it dated at 1894 as the first multi cylinder, but ive got the Rietwagon as the first motorcycle from 1885, are my dayes out?
@@barebonesmc H&W was the first series production bike offered on the market… as opposed to prototypes and owner constructed machines, like the Daimler Einspur (or Reitwagen) of 1885, and I guess, as Americans consider 3 wheelers as motorcycles, the Benz Patent-Motorwagen ("patent motorcar"), built in 1885 and normally considered the first series production car, is a motorcycle too.
That strange looking rear mudguard on the H&M is actually the coolant header tank/radiator.
Your references to the Suzuki amused me, as I worked at a bike shop when the GT750 was released with advertising claiming it as the 'first water cooled two stroke'. After Suzuki GB were approached by Scott aficionados, they changed it to 'the first water cooled two stroke triple'… again contested by Scott fans as the short lived (due to WW2) 747cc 3S was unveiled at Olympia in ’34 and finally production began as a 986cc tourer in very small numbers in ’39, before being immediately cancelled. Then again, Suzuki's marketing monkeys had form for this kind of thing, as they advertised the T500 in the States as the first road going 500cc 2 stroke twin (again, Scott had one much earlier, as did DKW)
Suzuki crowed over Yamaha about their 'Pozi' lubrication system (direct to bearings) being better than Yamaha's Autolube… but my brother has a French Soyer 2 stroke from 1922 with a similar direct to bearings oiling set up from a separate oil reservoir, and Scott (yet again) had a system similar to Yamaha's from before WW1.
As for electric start as standard fitting, the Germans had it on several scooters in the fifties (using the dynastart system).
@@chrisgraham5186 interesting. guess ill need to look at electric starters again :-) Makes me wonder how the industry would have progressed without the interference of the war.. The 500 DKW sounds interesting too, ill have a dig an see :-) cheers for your wonderful and helpful additions :-)
Hi, I am 77 yo and spent a lot of holidays, with my Guzzi 850, in Italy near the lake of Como. I met a gentleman driving an old Moto Guzzi Alce. His name was Pierluigi Greppi. We became friends. Pierluigi was an engineer and in college, he had a classmate named: Giulio Cesare Carcano. Because I was full of admiration for Sign. Carcano, Pierluigi asked if I would like being introduced to him. We met for a coffee at the lakeside in Varenna. The next year we met again and sign. Carcano only could remember my dog, a beautiful Irish Setter. 😂
nice story mate. cheers for watching mate :-) enjoy the ride
Great video, just shows that indeed, "Everything old is new again!"
the cycle of life continues 🙂 Cheers for watching mate, ride free 🙂
Love the list. As a young man when the Genesis was released the 1000cc was a dream bike for me. Never had one. I did rebuild a GT750, but only once. Parts was a nightmare to get hold off. Japanes bikes from the late 70s to end 80s is my passion.
cheers mate and thanks for watching, that era was a golden one
That must have taken some research, ... Really enjoyed it thanks for the hard work..
it was a lot of digging, but I love bikes so that makes it easier 🙂 glad you appreciated it mate. i learned a few things 🙂 thanks for watching
My former 1915 Flying Merkel had a mono shock and a in the frame oil tank and crude telescopic forks both front and back had no damping
i will take a look, cheers for adding, enjoy the ride my friend
Brilliant video mate I really enjoyed that. 👍👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it mate, cheers for watching, a few surprises in there too :-)
I always thought that the late great John Britten,,,his motorcycle would carry on and be produced for the world,,,but must have been too much for anyone else to manufacturer..R.I.P
Mr.J.Britten.
a master of the highest degree, Cheers for watching mate, Ride free
Not a first in the motorcycle industry but a first for me was my 1976 Norton Commando 850 Interstate that was just under three years old when I bought it. This was the first bike I had owned that had a disc brake. Somebody somewhere (in Norton?) decided that a rusty front disc was not a pretty thing, so my bikes disc was chrome plated, this worked well enough in the dry, but I still vividly remember the first time I applied it in the wet (approaching the outskirts of a village called Congresbury on the A370 from the direction of Weston-s-Mare). It was a Sunday late afternoon and there was a little traffic about. As the cars in front of me started to slow for the 30 mph limit through the village, I just gave the front brake a little touch...... nothing, I squeezed more, still nothing, more brake and finally the brake pads squashed all the water off of the disc, where it was being held by the chrome and I damn near locked the front brake, in traffic, in the wet. Fortunately my reactions in those days were lightning fast and in the half a second this all took to occur I figured out what was happening, applied the back brake too and was able to release a little pressure from the front brake lever just before the wheel locked up.
some of those early disc set ups were a bit hit and miss, glad you survived the scare mate and thanks for watching, ride free
I had a brand new Commando Interstate in 1975 and can confirm that the front brake was terrible when wet, it took some getting used to...
@@raywright2657 It was all a brave new world lol
@@raywright2657 As I remember they worked OK once they chrome wore through, but until then... scary.
Very interesting !
cheers mate, glad you enjoyed it
Superbly researched and presentation.
Thoroughly enjoyed it with my 1st coffee of the day, thank you.
cheers mate, if you fancy a laugh have a watch of the "motorcycle conversation with Chat GPT" video on the channel :-) i did it when i was researching this and it shows one of the major flaws very succinctly :-) Cheers for watching, Ride Free
Lovely video! Thanks for all the effort you put into this.
Something I learned a long time ago is that when it comes to car and motorbike tech, there's always someone who did it earlier than you at first believed. And your research certainly shows this :)
When I go to car and bike meets today, I'm usually drawn to these very early vehicles and just marvel at the technical details. It's very interesting to see all the different technical solutions they came up with before everybody settled on what eventually was found out to work the best, or ways to get around patented solutions.
cheers for the comments mate, much appreciated. I do find it all fascinating. and yep, the engineering tricks you find sometimes are fascinating. enjoy the ride mate
@@barebonesmc Sometimes, the early adoption of innovations we now take for granted were too much for the metallurgy or the lubricant technology of the day.
Parallel twins are normally thought of as originally a Triumph thing (from the Val Page and Edward Turner designs), before being adopted by most of the other British bike companies… at least as 4 strokes, though the previously mentioned Scott two strokes were mostly parallel twins… and if you want double overhead cam twins, then in the fifties, exotic smaller Italian marques, and later Honda in the mass produced world, spring to mind. Suzuki pioneered production 8 valve DOHC parallel twins with the GSX 250 and GSX400 later still. However Peugeot's 500M race bike was (it's believed) the first DOHC, 8 valve, parallel twin motorcycle, and appeared in 1914. Unfortunately, the metallurgy of the time made the engine fragile.
In much later years, the mighty Honda factory's products suffered from their technology demanding too much from the oils available. The sixties' S600 sports car needed far more frequent oil changes than the car world was accustomed to, and I can remember a London motorcycle despatch company in the early seventies being caught out by the short (and critical) oil change intervals on the Honda twins they chose for their fleet bikes.
I rode for a competitor company who chose Suzuki GT250s, and people thought they were mad using 2 strokes, but the Hondas the other company tried suffered worn out or seized cam bushings if they exceeded the 1500 mile (IIRC) service interval. It only took a couple of winter crash repair jobs in the fleet's workshop to delay a service by a week… but a week could be another 1000 miles on the overstressed oil. The Suzies we used, being two strokes, always had fresh oil running through the places that mattered, so a week's delay didn't hurt them. Those little twins survived up to 50K miles a year of merciless thrashing and were sold at a year or 18 months old.
@@chrisgraham5186 cheers for the comprehensive response mate 🙂 it is often the little things that make the bigger changes possible 🙂
I thoroughly enjoyed this. Well done Sir. 👍
:-) Thankyou. Cheers for watching mate, and enjoy the ride :-)
Great work and stories of the past....🏁🏁🏁👍👍👍
cheers mate, much appreciated comment, ride free
Great! I enjoyed this very much.
Glad you enjoyed it mate, Im glad I found some surprises :-) after a chat yesterday I found out about another bike I had never come across from one subscriber so its all about the learning :-) ride free
A few comments to an otherwise good show; The Vincent used a monochok rear suspension long before Yamaha, and it was not the diskvalve but the ekspansion exhaust that made the difference for MZ.
I have been wrong before :-) Im only human. as I understand it The Vincent was almost but not quite a monoshock was it not a triangulated canteliver with 2 shocks at the top ? as to MZ, I understood DKW as it was were the pioneers of the rotary disc valves, the exhaust may well have been another of their breakthroughs but was it someone else who pioneered the disc valve? Glad you enjoyed it anyway mate, :-) cheers for watching mate, enjoy the ride
@@barebonesmc Sorry it took a while, but I have never concitered the Vincent as anything but a monoshock, it had 2 spring/dampers, but only because he couldn´t get one strong enough. It was still a sigle unit. For many years I drove a Yamaha TR1 XV 1000, a Vincent copy, with a single spring/dampener, and I se no difference between it and the Vincent in that regard. And the trick, like the Vincent, of turning the springforces to almost horizontal, gives a very, very pleasant feeling. Some say the TR1 is a poor Harley copy, but it is not. It can both stop and drive around corners, and does not leave a trail of spare parts in its track.. As for the MZ, here are a litle film about the industrial espionage, I think you might like to se. ua-cam.com/video/1qccejmqbPg/v-deo.html I have seen a couple of films in german, with the paticipants from back then, and, belive me, they did NOT like the guy who went to Japan. ;o) And, btw, I have had both Suzuki and MZ twostrokes.
@@noahwail2444 I always liked the TR1, an underrated bike, I guess its semantics with the Vincent, I would describe it as a triangulated cantilever system but not a monoshock purely and simply because as you say, the tech wasnt available for him to use one stronger rear damper. Ill take a look at the film :-) cheers for watching mate, enjoy the ride
The beautifull alumium frame was the reason I changed from an FZ to an YZF.
On a straight road, at top speed, the steel frame of the FZ was more stable
The deltabox on the big FZR is an amazing chassis though, I love my EXUP's :-)
Maybe check Scott, and Vincent for monoshock?
the vincent was a cantilever, but not a monoshock as such, because no single shock was strong enough at the time, the scott, ill be honest and didnt know at all, i thought it went from rigid to twin shock, what years did it go monoshock? I know he tried telescopic front for a year or 2 but then went back to girder front forks so nothing would surprise me with Alfred Scott 🙂
Great video well done a pleasue to watch
but I think you should have included swinging arn suspension and the featherbed style frame
glad you enjoyed it mate, and we will inevitably all have slightly different lists 🙂Cheers for watching , ride free
Honda's C102 Cub 50s had electric starters back into the early 1960s. The C102 went on sale in the US on 07/01/1960 followed by the CA102 on 08/02/1962.
really ? i missed that one. do you know when? interesting :-)
The CA71 250cc Dream was released in 06/04/1959 and the CE71 followed on 09/01/1959. The 305cc Dreams C-CA76 models were also released on the same 09/01/1959. These bikes were US spec versions of the domestic 250-305 Dreams sold previously in Japan. Only the first generation models C70-C75 Dreams came without electric starters.
@@williamsilver6109 you see this is why the world needs more specialists 🙂 thank you William, If i ever need any dream twin info i know where to come 🙂 thanks again my friend. much appreciated
That Peugeot 4 valve DOHC engine looks insane for the time. and lets just appreciate details like the sparkplug cap,
The details :-) cheers for watching mate, ride free
Compelling and engrossing, a class video 👍👏👌
Glad you enjoyed it :-) cheers for watching mate, have a great weekend
What about the 1948 royal Enfield bullet being the first full production motorcycle to have rear swing arm suspension 🤔 I'd say that was more important than alot of things on the list
ur maybe right on that one mate, :-) Cheers for adding to the piece, ride free
That s right the internet is not always right and good video vid bud
cheers for watching mate, enjoy the ride 🙂
What I was told and it may not have beenthefirst, but very definitely an important innovation was Royal Enfields cush drive rear hub. Still used today and the reason why we don't blow our transmissions up. Even with slipper clutches, it is still being used.
Also, I thought it was FN that first put electric lights on a motorcycle? Or was it FN that first put lights on a motorcycle, as in magnesium strip lights?
the cush drive is a good one mate cheers, and i may be wrong on the lights, i do dig deeply but im not infallible 🙂 i would have thought acetyline lamps on the FN, but dont quote me lol
@barebonesmc heck yeah, you dig deep! Some of those really surprised me! One thing for sure is people tend to repeat things they hear without checking the facts. Keep up the good work!
@@750INTERCEPTER I like the ones that surprise people lol have a great day mate
Good one! Thanks
glad you enjoyed it mate 🙂Cheers for watching. Ride Free 🙂
The VF750F of 1983 had anti dive forks - before the USA’s Night Hawk. By all accounts they didn’t actually work very well. Both mine are still in pre restoration stage. The European model is in bits, whilst the rarer Marysville USA model is almost complete but not running.
:-) im bound to get some wrong i guess :-) cheers for watching and the comment mate, enjoy the ride 🙂
@@barebonesmc Yep, I know a little bit about a lot of things too. If you asked me about Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, most Triumphs, Nortons etc. I would not be commenting. But a few Hondas, including the VF750F Interceptors, some Velocettes I’ve collected some half decent reliable knowledge. Some of it is first hand.
Ride safe
@@G58 have a good un mate
@@barebonesmc Cheers. You too.
Velocette also made a Thruxton 500cc single with desmodromic valve gear. I wanted one!
Oh wow missed that one :-)
thanks 💖💖
🙂Cheers for watching mate. Ride Free 🙂
Absolutely fascinating, and I can vouch for those old honda disc brakes being awful in the wet..
glad you enjoyed it mate, cheers for watching, I can only imagine what the Douglas RA brakes were like 🤣🤣🤣
Back in the 70’s the japanese made stainless steel brake discs were more or less a disaster waiting to happen. People drilled holes in the discs to aid transport of water, but it only got reasonable when the first brake pads with sintered metal in the brake pad became standard that there was some relief.
The italian motorcycles with their cast iron brake discs had no problems with braking in the wet, but the discs turned rusty, and with that, the brake pistons too.
Vincant Black Shadow was a moto shock in 1954
had this conversation in another comment :-) as far as i am concerned i would describe the vincent as a cantilever, which yes it was first, but at the time he couldnt source 1 shock strong enough so 2 were used, hence it isn't really a monoshock despite being a cantilever system, does that sound about right? :-) Cheers for watching mate, ride free
I may be wrong, but I remember the FZR being steel, the YZF is the one with aluminium frame.
FZR1000 EXUP was all aluminium Deltabox. They used a part Aluminium frame on the early Genesis 1000 but replaced it with a frame developed from the OW01 FZR750 which was the original Deltabox perimiter frame with no steel side supports like the early Genesis had. Even the latest R1 chassis are similar and the FZR1000 Chassis hardly changed at all for almost 25 years, Think youll find thats right mate, I do have 2 89 EXUP's :-) Cheers for watching, ride free
FZR600 was steel deltabox frame. The 400, 750, 1000 were alloy. 👍
I just checked back. Vincent used twin shocks, but basically the had centre shocks and stressed engine design in the very early Fifties. They may have earned the title of pioneers there.
An anti dive system was available with the Suzuki Katana in 1982, and I vaguely remember that BMW had something like that even earlier, so Honda may even have been somewhat late to the show there.
yep, the Vincent was the first cantilever rear end i think too. as to the anti dive, all i can go on is what i (think i ) know and what i can find out mate, they may have had earlier anti dives. i know they were being used on the race bikes, but i dont remember any on the road until 84, if the first Katana had them im obviously wrong though 🙂 ill see what i find when i get chance, cheers, and have a great weekend
@@barebonesmc Just take a look at the front brakes of the Katana. It's pretty obvious. The way I understand it, Suzuki used a different system from Honda, though, the brake pressure itself was used to stiffen up the compression stage of the shock absorber. I am pretty sure they had it on at their introduction in 1982.
I don't know if it as already been said, but Sammy Miller has an aluminum framed BSA racing bike in his museum, the bike is on one of his videos. Sammy has lots of rare and prototype engines and bikes
A true giant of the bike world and a gent to boot. Didnt know about an ally frame BSA though. Hope you enjoyed the video mate 🙂Cheers for watching. Ride Free 🙂
@@barebonesmc The video is Sammy Miller favourite motorcycles, he shows the aluminum bike and a BSA twin DOHC 4 valve racing bike that the management at BSA stopped from racing at Silverstone, also a funny story about another DOHC 4 valve racing bike called a Reg and Honda wanting to visit his " factory".
ua-cam.com/video/LgjMF5kTqfQ/v-deo.html
There was no Velocette company. Only the bikes were called Velocettes, which were manufactured by the family owned Veloce Ltd of Hall Green, Birmingham. The family name was Goodman, an Anglicised version of their real German name Gutmann.
I bow to your expert knowledge my friend, you sound like a connouiseur :-) cheers for watching , enjoy the ride 🙂
@@barebonesmc Well my Dad had a GTP and two MOVs, and somewhere I’ve got 1.5 LE 200s, and as a teenager I joined the owners club. Many unfinished projects.
@@G58 good on you mate, anyone who helps keep the old uns going has my blessing 🙂 Im finishing a 750 Laverda SF2 at the minute 🙂
@@barebonesmc Oh nice. Never had a Laverda. Remember seeing them in MCN back in the day. Rare classic indeed now. Enjoy.
@@G58 my dream bike, bought it as a heap of oily boxes, its nearly done now i think, the 750 twin so much better than the big triples In my opinion
Ha, I remember a few years ago a radio jock did a quiz question and he changed the name on Wikipedia to Mickey Mouse. It was an unbelievable answer, but didn't stop people thinking the internet is always right 😂
lol 🙂Cheers for watching mate. Ride Free 🙂
Panther for engine as part of frame? Goods video though.
good one mate, i do actually like being proven wrong unusually lol, im not infallible, i do try though, as i have often said, if we could amass the combined knowledge of all the subscribers we would have the most comprehensive motorcycle encyclopedia ever 🙂
I believe Vincent had cantilever rear suspension before Yamaha?
yes triangulated cantilever but it used a dual shock system, apparently there was no shock strong enough to use a single unit at the time so i have been told
I just enjoy the history lessons. I have a love affair with Cafe Racers and Ducati’s but own a few others.
Welcome aboard , enjoy the ride and cheers for the support
No comments I'd surtanley say you mist the NSR125 AND THE TZR125
great bikes, but why specifically did you think they changed the industry? :-) Cheers for watching mate, ride free 🙂
@@barebonesmc because of the fram and because there 125cc all videos just talk about 300 _1000cc bikes but I'm a 125 man 250cc no good to me & both nsr and tzr had the bigger brothers as well and the nsr was a racing bike
@@rabone1968 the frame had been done before on the FZR though, and ive got nothing aagainst smaller bikes at all, i talk about more smaller bikes than most but i guess i could look at doing something 125cc specific, ill have a think
For me its the slipper clutch 😂
don't lol, just don't, i know your just trying to get a reaction :-) :-) Cheers for watching mate, ride free :-)
@@barebonesmc no for real. I like mastering the bike... i grew up with bikes getting better and better but for me the slipper clutch made all the differencevon the road. Keep up the good work.
@@eatsblades being honest, i just dont get them, ive been doing clutchless gearchanges since I had a BSA A7 clubman racer. and thats a while ago now. try and sell me the difference it makes in the real world
The most damaging developments in motorcycle design have been the introduction of EFI and all the fake climate legislation induced pointless emissions nonsense.
The introduction of EFI requires a pressurised fuel system, replacing the omission of gravity fed fuel to carburettor system which has worked fine for 100 years.
The number of messages that the ECU needs to receive from a myriad of sensors before it will start is simply ludicrous. And a flat or even low battery that’s deemed incapable of running the fuel pump and the starter, can also guarantee that a modern bike won’t start.
In a full analysis, none of these systems represent genuine positive improvements in the long run. Indeed they shorten the potential useful economic life of the bikes to which they’re fitted. They also pander to the modern type of leisure rider for whom a bike is a means to look good whilst sipping overpriced coffee, and pretending to be on an adventure…!
get it said mate :-) cheers for watching , enjoy the ride 🙂
@@barebonesmc Yep, buy old bikes 🧐😎😜
@@G58 mine range from 74 to 2008 lol. the Vstrom is the newest and ive had that over 15 years 🙂
@@barebonesmc Cool. 2007, 1989, 1983, and others. 12 in total now. Lot of work!
@@G58 yep lots of work, hence why i have been trying to thin them out gradually 🙂
Great vid !!
Those Vincents look like they had monoshock..... if not, they were certainly looked at during yamaha's development.
its a triangulated cantilever on the Vincent with 2 underseat shocks, apparently because he couldnt source a single spring strong enough lol, Cheers for watching mate 🙂 Ride Free
@@barebonesmc very interesting :)
And thanks for the response ! :)
@@julianp4787 no problem mate, i do my best on comments although i have fallen behind a bit 🙂