It’s 14” top of concrete to the bottom of the foam…. The concrete itself is 4” thick slab with monolithic beams every 2’ that go down within about 2” of bottom of the foam, it’s stout for sure, I’m positive if it was larger u could land a chopper on it, but it’s not terribly expensive, this floor only took 10 yards
Great content, good vid. Great detail and information, you have the right approach. There are a few others similar to lite deck, have used those, its all very similiar just some EPS foam to create concrete concrete beams. Cheers from Oz.
I am interested in your perspective on termites. I'm looking at ICCF (block made with EPS-CRETE rather than EPS with plastic webs) as potentially more resistant to insects burrowing through the block and a stucco exterior to give it an even better solid surface. Do you think ICCF is enough? Does ICF make a stable enough structure that my stucco will never crack? Tell us about every finish you've ever seen, good or bad.
Hey can you explain how the hole works for the staircase ? I am looking at light deck for basement as well and the hole for stair case trips me for the beam strength because in the corner the beam is not supported at both ends.
A-A-Ron! great detail shots in this one, mate, GJ & thx! how goes the wife & pool debate? do you have any "hip roof" (i think that's the right term) LiteDeck projects in the works? i'm lookin at that style (Spanish, low-ish angle, 2ft overhangs) for our planned garage/workshop with 2nd floor living quarters (25'x60' outside measurements, 17'6" ICF walls), and unsure how joining the edges would work...esp if they'd all need beams, or if temp bracing would be enough. also, the height is a concern with bracing for pour so high... mostly as i assume costs will skyrocket?
Could you do a piece on fiberglass reinforcement bar (rebar) versus old iron rebar? Doesn't iron rebar continue to rust and degrade concrete very quickly, especially when below grade? It seems that fiberglass rebar has quite a few advantages but a reluctance of municipalities to allow it because they don't know enough yet. I am not sure what the code is or if there is an issue I should expect to encounter if I go that route?
Painted and galvenized rebar are made to avoid that problem but I think moisture and rising damp are the real issues. Concrete has an incredible capillary action. From what I understand concrete that is wet on the bottom could wick moisture up hundreds or thousands of feet of column. Eventually wet concrete will begin to corrode the rebar and then you get the spalling issues. On the one hand I think ICF construction is so strong that a typical house would remain standing even with mostly failed concrete and the moisture required to do that anytime soon would probably make big moisture issues very apparent before concrete failure. On the other hand if you use a product like fast-foot to keep ground moisture out of your footer and you have a little ventilation at the top of the wall to allow your concrete to continue drying indefinitely, painted or galvenized rebar will probably never fail in your lifetime if the concrete stays reasonably dry. If you have a concrete slab, you might want a moisture barrier under it also. I plan to do the fast-foot and moisture barrier with the top of my walls venting in to a ventilated "cold roof". I'll probably use painted rebar unless I can find galvenized at a reasonable price.
@@joequixotic3039 not what I am worried about or talking about the nonsense you are . I don’t want lifetime construction like wood, why would I? When I can have 100 lifetime construction that increases my family’s wealth? I do not build to contractor’s standards or old methods. I am talking about building to “the right standards “.
@@mcchupka9718 @M&C Chupka you might want to watch this: ua-cam.com/video/w6iiwvi1tx4/v-deo.html Corrosion happens when you have moisture in contact with exposed metal. Painted metal isn't exposed, galvenized metal has a sacrificial plating to prevent corrosion from getting to the metal underneath. If you have that and you let the concrete dry out completely and then keep it dry, the rate of corrosion will be very very slow. Concrete failure can happen when rebar corrodes and the iron oxide grows, pushing the concrete away from the rebar. This happened in the building that collapsed in Florida recently but it was a situation with improperly waterproofed concrete, flawed structural engineering, salt water and about 40 years of exposure. If you don't have salt water or flawed structural engineering, who knows how long it would last with improper waterproofing? One thing is certain, it would have lasted a lot longer. When you remove the last problem and keep the concrete dry, it's probably going to last longer than anyone wants the building to be around. When you look at residential ICF construction compared to a high rise condo building, or to wood frame construction, it is massively overbuilt, that's why I say it would probably still stand with most of the concrete failed, not because I think most of the concrete will fail. My guess is with ICF after 70-80 years if rising damp puts moisture in the concrete, there will be some damage but you'll never see it unless you demolish the building and pick through the rubble. If it's bad, at 150 years you might be able to tell without demolishing the place. If it's not bad it might go 3-400 years before it's an issue. I base that on the fact that there is plenty of 80+ year old steel reinforced concrete with little or no waterproofing that looks fine and is structurally sound. Unless they remained very dry you would probably find small amounts of corrosion on the rebar if you chipped off the concrete. Concrete in ICFs should be similar except the exterior surfaces are concealed by the EPS and another exterior finish. Now getting back to fiberglass rebar, I'm skeptical because the price is probably high and I know a little about composites and concrete. Glass fiber has been used in concrete for a long time and it kind of makes sense when short strands are added to the mix. Typical fiber composites work by making fibers that are smaller in diameter than their minimum crack size and then bonding them together in a relatively flexible matrix of plastic resin or epoxy (I'll ignore metal matrix composites since they really aren't applicable) so that loads can be transferred through the matrix from one fiber to another. Concrete is a different type of composite, it's a stiff and brittle matrix reinforced by ductile (flexible) steel rebar, it works in the opposite way. So if you are replacing steel rebar with glass rebar, you either have a brittle matrix with a brittle reinforcement or you have a brittle matrix and rebar made with fibers that don't have a matrix to transfer forces through (except for a small amount at the surface of the rebar. In the case of plastic and epoxy matrix fiber composites the result can be strong, light weight and stiff parts. In the case of concrete, steel was added to prevent brittle failure and add tensile strength but concrete has never been a particularly high performance material, it's just cheap and the labor to install is less costly than brick, block or stone masonry. I don't see a suitable ductile reinforcement alternative to rebar but I know that if steel reinforced concrete is engineered properly it will handle its design loads indefinitely without failure unless the rebar is weakened by corrosion. The "nonsense" I'm talking about is a belt and suspenders approach to protecting steel reinforced concrete from rebar corrosion. The cost of fast-foot plastic for the footer is not zero but it can be offset by the reduction in formwork and painted rebar is not terribly expensive either. I haven't compared it to the cost of fiberglass rebar but I bet it compares very well. I suggest you do some research on strength of materials, composites and concrete before you start throwing around the n-word again.
Steel rebar does not rust if there is proper concrete cover. If the steel is exposed it will rust and expand causing tension in the concrete which will crack it. If you’re worried about rebar corrosion because you’re near the ocean then spec more cover in the plans and monitor the pour closely.
@@benchoflemons398 You do know that most rebar used on job sites is already covered with a coat of rust before it even gets installed because it sits outside or on the site for days or weeks, or months, or years, before it gets used and nobody cleans it before they install it. Rebar rusts unbelievably fast too, as you probably know. Then factor in that “ALL concrete cracks and when it cracks, the rust on the rebar accelerates causing concrete sprawl and staining on the surface. Imagine if it were a set of concrete steps and it cracked and then salt was used to keep the ice off it in the winter… imagine how fast that salt mixed with water would attack the rebar that was already rusty when it was installed, like 99.9% of job sites do.
When we have done ICF floor systems we only removed the wall insulation at the beam sections and 2' oc on the non-bearing sides. Why did you remove all the insulation for the thickness of the floor? Were the Fab-Form mono pour feet difficult to remove?
You don’t remove them, they are recessed into the form and sheetrock goes right over them…. As far as why the inside form is removed 4” up, we poured the wall monolithically with the floor and it’s all one piece this way
Call Daryl Hopkins, tell him I told you to call…. 417-761-0941, he’s my fox block snd lite deck guy. Shipping and engineering are so influential on final costs I couldn’t be sure without knowing a lot more info! Daryl can help u out!
Hey Aaron great video, when you do your monopour pools is there any need to waterproof the exterior of the icf or is the shell waterproof enough. I'm currently doing an icf pool and wanted your thoughts on it. My thinking is a gunite pool doesn't have waterproofing on the exterior.
Definitely no need to waterproof above grade, in a pool there wil be waterproof membrane of one type of another inside the pool, typically no need to do anything outside the pool, basements should be though!
I am in my planning phase to building an ICF house for my wife and I and we are contemplating lite deck with radiant heat for our 1st floor ranch over walkout basement, just curious of thoughts of floor finish over the concrete. We live live in Mid-Michigan and greatly appreciate your videos.
Best for efficient heat transfer is polished concrete…. Next would be any type of mudded in tile and then wood and carpet, but it works with any floors, just get the benefit of actually feeling the warmth with hard surface floors
You can put any finish over it expect Maybe real hardwood. Engineered hardwood you should be good on just check with the manufacturer. The heat isn't the problem it's the concrete you might have to glue it down. Make sure your concrete is dead Level before putting the floor down, if it's not use self leveling concrete and get it right. Carpet you might be ok if it's not perfect but any laminate or hardwood won't cover up if it's uneven.
They’ve got some amazing vapor barrier glues that would allow real wood, but at this point in the evolution of wood floors the nice thick veneer engineered stuff gives you the best of both worlds, deep rich really look and stability!
We are selling 4200 sq ft of litedeck...delivered 4 days ago. Great deal and will part it out if necessary in quantities needed per job. Well less than retail.
Thanks for pointing out that predictive text screwed my caption, if you actually listened to what I said, I said hydronic…. Sorry if my accent makes it unclear…
It was awesome to meet you today! Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!
You’re welcome! Great meeting people who are the value added!
@@all3pools I would love to learn more about this. Especially litedeck. If you have a project coming up love to come check it out.
14" concrete deck, on a backyard room addition... so, you can land choppers and F16's if things get funky....
It’s 14” top of concrete to the bottom of the foam…. The concrete itself is 4” thick slab with monolithic beams every 2’ that go down within about 2” of bottom of the foam, it’s stout for sure, I’m positive if it was larger u could land a chopper on it, but it’s not terribly expensive, this floor only took 10 yards
Looking forward to hearing about the cost analysis.
That won't be going anywhere for the next 1000 years absolutely.
Madman! I love it!
Like always excellent info. Very much enjoy your channel.
Great content, good vid.
Great detail and information, you have the right approach.
There are a few others similar to lite deck, have used those, its all very similiar just some EPS foam to create concrete concrete beams.
Cheers from Oz.
Looking forward to hearing about your snow melt system
I am planning an ICF home in a very high termite infestation area and am looking forward to your discussion of the best ways to deal with them.
Polywall has peal and stick membrane that you can attach to the icf which is both waterproofing and termite proof. reasonably priced.
I am interested in your perspective on termites. I'm looking at ICCF (block made with EPS-CRETE rather than EPS with plastic webs) as potentially more resistant to insects burrowing through the block and a stucco exterior to give it an even better solid surface.
Do you think ICCF is enough?
Does ICF make a stable enough structure that my stucco will never crack?
Tell us about every finish you've ever seen, good or bad.
I’m definitely interested in what termite protection is needed. I wouldn’t imagine much, but I could be wrong.
Hey can you explain how the hole works for the staircase ? I am looking at light deck for basement as well and the hole for stair case trips me for the beam strength because in the corner the beam is not supported at both ends.
Nice
A-A-Ron! great detail shots in this one, mate, GJ & thx! how goes the wife & pool debate?
do you have any "hip roof" (i think that's the right term) LiteDeck projects in the works? i'm lookin at that style (Spanish, low-ish angle, 2ft overhangs) for our planned garage/workshop with 2nd floor living quarters (25'x60' outside measurements, 17'6" ICF walls), and unsure how joining the edges would work...esp if they'd all need beams, or if temp bracing would be enough. also, the height is a concern with bracing for pour so high... mostly as i assume costs will skyrocket?
You showed vibrating the walls, do you also vibrate the deck too?
I seen one video where they crowned the deck a bit before the port. The guy said it would settle with the weight.
Is that something you sugest?
I would have liked more information on your transition to a different block above the Nudura blocks. That would be helpful
Just cut the nubs off and screw plywood over the transition during the pour…. I should have documented the process tho
@@all3pools ok gotcha, and i guess you just transition to a different spacing of the attachment points imbedded in the block. thx
How much of that rebar could you have eliminated using Helix in SCC?
Im curious how to frame out for a stairwell, especially if you have to get an additional 6" styro cap on litedeck
Could you do a piece on fiberglass reinforcement bar (rebar) versus old iron rebar? Doesn't iron rebar continue to rust and degrade concrete very quickly, especially when below grade? It seems that fiberglass rebar has quite a few advantages but a reluctance of municipalities to allow it because they don't know enough yet. I am not sure what the code is or if there is an issue I should expect to encounter if I go that route?
Painted and galvenized rebar are made to avoid that problem but I think moisture and rising damp are the real issues.
Concrete has an incredible capillary action. From what I understand concrete that is wet on the bottom could wick moisture up hundreds or thousands of feet of column. Eventually wet concrete will begin to corrode the rebar and then you get the spalling issues.
On the one hand I think ICF construction is so strong that a typical house would remain standing even with mostly failed concrete and the moisture required to do that anytime soon would probably make big moisture issues very apparent before concrete failure.
On the other hand if you use a product like fast-foot to keep ground moisture out of your footer and you have a little ventilation at the top of the wall to allow your concrete to continue drying indefinitely, painted or galvenized rebar will probably never fail in your lifetime if the concrete stays reasonably dry. If you have a concrete slab, you might want a moisture barrier under it also.
I plan to do the fast-foot and moisture barrier with the top of my walls venting in to a ventilated "cold roof". I'll probably use painted rebar unless I can find galvenized at a reasonable price.
@@joequixotic3039 not what I am worried about or talking about the nonsense you are . I don’t want lifetime construction like wood, why would I? When I can have 100 lifetime construction that increases my family’s wealth? I do not build to contractor’s standards or old methods. I am talking about building to “the right standards “.
@@mcchupka9718 @M&C Chupka you might want to watch this: ua-cam.com/video/w6iiwvi1tx4/v-deo.html
Corrosion happens when you have moisture in contact with exposed metal. Painted metal isn't exposed, galvenized metal has a sacrificial plating to prevent corrosion from getting to the metal underneath. If you have that and you let the concrete dry out completely and then keep it dry, the rate of corrosion will be very very slow.
Concrete failure can happen when rebar corrodes and the iron oxide grows, pushing the concrete away from the rebar. This happened in the building that collapsed in Florida recently but it was a situation with improperly waterproofed concrete, flawed structural engineering, salt water and about 40 years of exposure. If you don't have salt water or flawed structural engineering, who knows how long it would last with improper waterproofing? One thing is certain, it would have lasted a lot longer. When you remove the last problem and keep the concrete dry, it's probably going to last longer than anyone wants the building to be around.
When you look at residential ICF construction compared to a high rise condo building, or to wood frame construction, it is massively overbuilt, that's why I say it would probably still stand with most of the concrete failed, not because I think most of the concrete will fail. My guess is with ICF after 70-80 years if rising damp puts moisture in the concrete, there will be some damage but you'll never see it unless you demolish the building and pick through the rubble. If it's bad, at 150 years you might be able to tell without demolishing the place. If it's not bad it might go 3-400 years before it's an issue.
I base that on the fact that there is plenty of 80+ year old steel reinforced concrete with little or no waterproofing that looks fine and is structurally sound. Unless they remained very dry you would probably find small amounts of corrosion on the rebar if you chipped off the concrete. Concrete in ICFs should be similar except the exterior surfaces are concealed by the EPS and another exterior finish.
Now getting back to fiberglass rebar, I'm skeptical because the price is probably high and I know a little about composites and concrete. Glass fiber has been used in concrete for a long time and it kind of makes sense when short strands are added to the mix. Typical fiber composites work by making fibers that are smaller in diameter than their minimum crack size and then bonding them together in a relatively flexible matrix of plastic resin or epoxy (I'll ignore metal matrix composites since they really aren't applicable) so that loads can be transferred through the matrix from one fiber to another. Concrete is a different type of composite, it's a stiff and brittle matrix reinforced by ductile (flexible) steel rebar, it works in the opposite way. So if you are replacing steel rebar with glass rebar, you either have a brittle matrix with a brittle reinforcement or you have a brittle matrix and rebar made with fibers that don't have a matrix to transfer forces through (except for a small amount at the surface of the rebar.
In the case of plastic and epoxy matrix fiber composites the result can be strong, light weight and stiff parts. In the case of concrete, steel was added to prevent brittle failure and add tensile strength but concrete has never been a particularly high performance material, it's just cheap and the labor to install is less costly than brick, block or stone masonry.
I don't see a suitable ductile reinforcement alternative to rebar but I know that if steel reinforced concrete is engineered properly it will handle its design loads indefinitely without failure unless the rebar is weakened by corrosion. The "nonsense" I'm talking about is a belt and suspenders approach to protecting steel reinforced concrete from rebar corrosion. The cost of fast-foot plastic for the footer is not zero but it can be offset by the reduction in formwork and painted rebar is not terribly expensive either. I haven't compared it to the cost of fiberglass rebar but I bet it compares very well.
I suggest you do some research on strength of materials, composites and concrete before you start throwing around the n-word again.
Steel rebar does not rust if there is proper concrete cover. If the steel is exposed it will rust and expand causing tension in the concrete which will crack it.
If you’re worried about rebar corrosion because you’re near the ocean then spec more cover in the plans and monitor the pour closely.
@@benchoflemons398 You do know that most rebar used on job sites is already covered with a coat of rust before it even gets installed because it sits outside or on the site for days or weeks, or months, or years, before it gets used and nobody cleans it before they install it. Rebar rusts unbelievably fast too, as you probably know. Then factor in that “ALL concrete cracks and when it cracks, the rust on the rebar accelerates causing concrete sprawl and staining on the surface. Imagine if it were a set of concrete steps and it cracked and then salt was used to keep the ice off it in the winter… imagine how fast that salt mixed with water would attack the rebar that was already rusty when it was installed, like 99.9% of job sites do.
This is so awesome. Love these videos. Do you have any tips for finding an experienced ICF mentor/consultant for a owner-build in Kentucky?
We are working on it!
@@all3pools That would be SO awesome!
When we have done ICF floor systems we only removed the wall insulation at the beam sections and 2' oc on the non-bearing sides. Why did you remove all the insulation for the thickness of the floor? Were the Fab-Form mono pour feet difficult to remove?
You don’t remove them, they are recessed into the form and sheetrock goes right over them…. As far as why the inside form is removed 4” up, we poured the wall monolithically with the floor and it’s all one piece this way
For a roof top terrace if cost is not a concern what would you go with ?Lite Deck or hollowcore or speedfloor
Lite deck
Great video. How do you get concrete under your 2-0 x 3-0 window in the bathroom area?
It’s in the vid, you cut out plugs in the bottom buck and slowly add concrete snd vibrate until all voids are filled, then, replace the foam plugs
How are recessed lights incorporated into lite deck?
Would you recommend litedeck for a house roof? How much is it for litedeck to be able to span 24ft?
Call Daryl Hopkins, tell him I told you to call…. 417-761-0941, he’s my fox block snd lite deck guy. Shipping and engineering are so influential on final costs I couldn’t be sure without knowing a lot more info! Daryl can help u out!
Hey Aaron great video, when you do your monopour pools is there any need to waterproof the exterior of the icf or is the shell waterproof enough. I'm currently doing an icf pool and wanted your thoughts on it. My thinking is a gunite pool doesn't have waterproofing on the exterior.
Definitely no need to waterproof above grade, in a pool there wil be waterproof membrane of one type of another inside the pool, typically no need to do anything outside the pool, basements should be though!
Thank you
What are you using to hold up the bottom of the ICF wall
Monopour legs from fab form, my fastfoot video from 3 months ago details them pretty good!
I did this for my roof 5:12 pitch
Vid on my channel
The blurred out guy is he a wanted criminal?
Amish
@@all3pools Ah yes makes sense thanks
you dont need stirrups connecting the #6 to the #4 on top? my plans call for (2) #3 stirrups every 12" OC. I have a 12" build block with a 22' span
Actually you do want it to run from using HRWRs.
I am in my planning phase to building an ICF house for my wife and I and we are contemplating lite deck with radiant heat for our 1st floor ranch over walkout basement, just curious of thoughts of floor finish over the concrete. We live live in Mid-Michigan and greatly appreciate your videos.
Best for efficient heat transfer is polished concrete…. Next would be any type of mudded in tile and then wood and carpet, but it works with any floors, just get the benefit of actually feeling the warmth with hard surface floors
You can put any finish over it expect Maybe real hardwood. Engineered hardwood you should be good on just check with the manufacturer. The heat isn't the problem it's the concrete you might have to glue it down. Make sure your concrete is dead Level before putting the floor down, if it's not use self leveling concrete and get it right. Carpet you might be ok if it's not perfect but any laminate or hardwood won't cover up if it's uneven.
They’ve got some amazing vapor barrier glues that would allow real wood, but at this point in the evolution of wood floors the nice thick veneer engineered stuff gives you the best of both worlds, deep rich really look and stability!
We are selling 4200 sq ft of litedeck...delivered 4 days ago. Great deal and will part it out if necessary in quantities needed per job. Well less than retail.
@@chadddraper3133 what was your cost on 4200 sq ft
No plugs needed nor vibrator with SCC.
"hydronic" not hydraulic. If you have hydraulic heat you're heating with oil.......
Thanks for pointing out that predictive text screwed my caption, if you actually listened to what I said, I said hydronic…. Sorry if my accent makes it unclear…
fix your mic please
Hey Aaron. Just incase you care to change it on the video, it’s hydronic heat, not hydraulic heat lol. Love your work.
I know…. I can’t change it unfortunately, freaking predictive spell check…. For the record I say it right 5 times in the vid…