Wow, let's all just take a minute to appreciate what Brulosophy has accomplished. With hundreds of exbeeriments under their belts, not only are single variables being compared in a scientifically robust manner that provides all of us homebrewers with extremely useful information, but where multiple exbeeriments are carried out testing similar variables, like in this case, we can (or Martin can!) start to put together a bigger picture on which variables make a difference and which are important enough to worry over. This is truly a remarkable feat, and it's such a good idea to present these umbrella reviews on the Brulosophy Show. So well done, and thank you to Martin, Marshall and everybody at Brulosophy. Truly, all of the Brulosophy content is an incredible resource for homebrewers that should not be taken for granted.
@@1over137 We all know that the statistical power of these experiments could be improved with larger sample sizes and replication, but to consider them worthless is completely uncalled for imo. We need to accept that pragmatic steps need to be taken to make these tests possible.
@@1over137BUT, this isn’t a science journal. This is a hobby UA-cam channel that is trying to bring a level of significant understanding to important variables. I wouldn’t be hating on these attempts, rather use the data to craft further investigations into the topic at hand. If you’re displeased with the level of statistical significance, then please redo it per your requirements and please post the results. I will be waiting for your data sets, but we both know you’ll never do it. Complainers never actualize anything, they only belly ache over what they didn’t get handed to them for free. Good day.
Random thought on corny keg and the concern about fermentation effect; commercial lager tanks are horizontal so I wonder if tilting a corny nearly 90° would change the quality.
I’ve not got a stainless fermenter at the moment but when I went from bucket to a fermzilla then closed transfer my lighter hoppy beers absolutely got much much better. Another great video as always cheers 👍🍻
There are still a great number of homebrewers who use a plastic bucket to ferment in. It would have been nice to see this method included in the tests.
I use a plastic bucket and have had great results. I use a stainless coil with a cooler of ice water and an aquarium pump for my temp control. works great, I can brew lagers when its 90 degrees in my un insulated garage.
Plastic buckets are generally made of HDPE which has a higher level of O2 permeability than PET. Plus a lot of PET carboys have an extra layer of non permeable plastic inside that prohibits o2 ingress further. I would hypothesize the brew bucket would perform worse than the PET in a triangle test. Would be interesting to see it done though.
The Fermzilla is a bit different, as far as I understand. 1. The material is considerably thicker than the material of the plastic containers shown here (at least the ones I know) 2. It makes a huge difference if you use the Fermzilla under pressure or not...
@@Bigz4ch87 Yep! I'm fermenting all my lagers in a fermzilla using pressure fermentation. Only using my stainless steel conical for ales, Weißbier, Belgians etc.
After years of brewing I still use a plastic bucket (kept srupulously clean) with a good firm tight fitting lid and a grommeted airlock (or blow-off tube). I also have two PET clear carboy type fermenters with wide lids more common here in the UK than glass carboys. I use these at ambient temperatures in the winter for ales as they don't fit into my under-counter style brewfridge. I've often thought about investing in an SS Brewtech stainless fermenter but again it would be too large to go in the brewfridge. Bottom line - my beers taste great!
I've fermented in everything from SS brewtech unitanks to plastic buckets. The best bang for your buck for fail-proof quality is fermzilla, and I use them specifically because they are so EASY to clean, compared to cleaning every nook and cranny of a unitank (gaskets, triclamps, etc..). I own three and will transfer fermzilla to fermzilla for dryhopping or adjuncting. Makes fantastic beer! Cheers, another great video!
Started with a plastic bucket, but couldn't get the smell out after a couple of brews. Switched to SS. Safest option, easiest to clean, indestructible. Added bonus of being able to do a no chill directly into the fermenter. Boiling wort straight into the SS, then leave it to cool naturally overnight in the sealed fermenter. Pop the bung and pitch the yeast (which has been on the stir plate doing a vitality starter) through a sanitized SS funnel the next morning. This process works best with the malt forward/low hops/dark beers I prefer, I don't do this for the hop forward IPAs that are popular at the moment.
Started brewing with plastic buckets, then glass carboys, then hdpe speidel and finally settled on corny keg. Easy to clean, allows pressure transfer. Thanks for the great and informative videos!
I love the good old uni tank. Ideally whiskey glycol connection in the jacket. I’m very pleased to see that there is more coming out and they seem to get cheaper.
Even though I do oxygen-free transfers using my FerMonster fermenter, I might consider a stainless steel brew bucket after watching this video. To be honest though, no one has ever complained of oxidation in my beer. Thanks for the info! Cheers!🍻
I don't exactly know the FerMonster, but at the least for the Fermzilla (which should be quite similar), this is a bit different, as far as I understand. 1. The material is considerably thicker than the material of the plastic containers shown here (at least the ones I know) 2. It makes a huge difference if you use the Fermzilla/FerMonster under pressure or not...
I've been using open stainless steel fermenters for all my real ales since I went 'commercial' 9 years' ago and have won many awards for my beers, so I must be doing something right. I think that open fermenters allow the yeast to work best as it's less 'stressed'. I believe even some German breweries are now installing brand new open stainless fermenting vessels too. Keep up the good work, love the vids.
Hey Martin, great exbeeriment! I ferment in a Fermonster PET carboy (reasonable cost; fits into my small chest freezer/fermentation chamber). PET is pretty standard in the food industry so I don't worry too much. I don't seem to get any off flavors or aromas and make pretty decent beer so I will keep using plastic. Take heart plastic fermenter users. Here is the conclusion of an article from Beer & Brewing Magazine (April 5, 2016): Excellent fermentation vessels are made from both glass and plastic, and you can ferment great beer in either material. Think about how you like to brew beer, and choose the option that best suits your process and lifestyle. Stay Thirsty My Friend!
I used to use a plastic bucket, which I think is pretty common for homebrewers. So it would have been great to see that tested. But overall another good video! I ferment and serve out of the same corny keg now and love it.
I used plastic buckets, went to glass, went to a blichmann conical, then to a anvil and brewtech stainless bucket fermenters. I hated my conical. It was way too much cleaning since I wasn't collecting yeast. Stainless buckets are dope. I pressure transfer just fine at low pressure. I have fermented in a corny at pressure and that was nice too but I like my buckets better for no pressure fermentations
Once the wort starts to ferment, C02 made by the yeast will displace the air within the fermenter. It is when you transfer that the issue starts with oxidation. Pressure vessels are the way to go at the end of fermentation, transfer without oxygen.
I used to use normal plastic fermenters, mostly the current Coopers fermenters with the loose fitting lid. They've been well used over the last few years and are showing cracks at the bottom, so I started replacing them with a FermZilla and two Apollo Snubnose conical pressure fermenters (all PET). I have yet to make an ale in them but my lagers seem to be better than ever...or it is wishful thinking to justify the expense :) But the fact that it cuts the time from pitch to keg by a week is quite an incentive.
I have an Anvil Bucket fermenter and now I just largely ferment in a corny keg. No perceivable difference in the beer, plus I can pressure ferment if I want, as well as pressure transfers, which I think are the best benefit. Will be fermenting a 1.130 OG imperial stout in the keg next week. That should an interesting one.
Glad to hear. I have been fermenting in a spike fermenter, and wanted to try the corny keg to avoid transfers. Looking forward to trying it. I will be using a floating dip tub as well!
I brew 4.5 gallons at one time. I ferment in korny and my choice for my madness is a Mexican IPA. Grist is all Mexican with nottingham as the yeast, using a spunding valve. The reason for the korny as my choice is I can throw in my wort hot into the keg and let it cool down the next day. All this is to limit my cleaning and have my brew day of less than 5 hours, but I have also done a two hour brew day (which is off this subject). So my answer is less cleaning and least amount of space taken to produce my IPA. Saludos
Lofi amateur who always uses glass over plastic for fermentation. Glass is super easy to scrub-a-dub-dub. Plastic tends to get scratched or damaged in someway so it's not totally smooth for long. Which I would guess is a problem. SS is awesome but expensive. I need the flexibility to move all my gear around filled or not. Not much room.
HDPE has higher levels of permeability compared to PET, but it's a bit harder to find PET carboys. The only thing I would caution is making sure to use food-grade HDPE buckets as opposed to things like home depot buckets, since there is a chance chemicals or oils including heavy metals may have been used in the plastic used to manufacture the bucket that can leech into your beer. May or may not cause health problems but also may change the flavor of the beer.
Everyone talks about how impervious stainless steel fermenters are to O2 because stainless steel is, but all such vessels have rubber or silicone gaskets that definitely allow O2 to enter. And while the lid gasket on a keg isn't that large, the lid gasket on a conical fermenter is pretty significant. In addition, many conicals have tons of tri clamp ports, all of which have rubber or silicone gaskets that can let in O2. I wonder if anyone has done testing on how much O2 gets in through the various gaskets. I think Kegland had some research done on that and came up with a new type of lid gasket for kegs.
I ferment at least under some pressure in a wide 10 gallon Torpedo keg. So you're saying for example that my pilsner I just got going under 5 PSI is currently taking O2 in because the vessel has gaskets? I'm really curious as to how a pressurized keg is taking the outside 02. I'm totally open to being wrong, but I really want to know the data and how this is even possible in my situation. Wouldn't this only happen if the pressure was equal or lower inside the fermenter? If the the gaskets are permeable wouldn't C02 leak out of them from the pressure versus 02 being sucked in?
I ferment in kegs. cheapest unitank, and the only going to 9 bars!! So simple cleaning, same format as serving kegs, because, well, they are the same...
Wow, let's all just take a minute to appreciate what Brulosophy has accomplished. With hundreds of exbeeriments under their belts, not only are single variables being compared in a scientifically robust manner that provides all of us homebrewers with extremely useful information, but where multiple exbeeriments are carried out testing similar variables, like in this case, we can (or Martin can!) start to put together a bigger picture on which variables make a difference and which are important enough to worry over. This is truly a remarkable feat, and it's such a good idea to present these umbrella reviews on the Brulosophy Show. So well done, and thank you to Martin, Marshall and everybody at Brulosophy. Truly, all of the Brulosophy content is an incredible resource for homebrewers that should not be taken for granted.
Couldn’t say it better myself! I’m always looking forward to brulosophy videos and the podcast too!
A sample size of 20 or so participants and a very minor result is worthless. Sorry. Run the same test 3 times with 3 different groups at least.
@@1over137 We all know that the statistical power of these experiments could be improved with larger sample sizes and replication, but to consider them worthless is completely uncalled for imo. We need to accept that pragmatic steps need to be taken to make these tests possible.
@@charlesjohnson5811 If you study science, you will find it's not quite that simple. If this study was published in a journal it would be laughed at.
@@1over137BUT, this isn’t a science journal. This is a hobby UA-cam channel that is trying to bring a level of significant understanding to important variables. I wouldn’t be hating on these attempts, rather use the data to craft further investigations into the topic at hand. If you’re displeased with the level of statistical significance, then please redo it per your requirements and please post the results. I will be waiting for your data sets, but we both know you’ll never do it. Complainers never actualize anything, they only belly ache over what they didn’t get handed to them for free. Good day.
Random thought on corny keg and the concern about fermentation effect; commercial lager tanks are horizontal so I wonder if tilting a corny nearly 90° would change the quality.
I’ve not got a stainless fermenter at the moment but when I went from bucket to a fermzilla then closed transfer my lighter hoppy beers absolutely got much much better. Another great video as always cheers 👍🍻
There are still a great number of homebrewers who use a plastic bucket to ferment in. It would have been nice to see this method included in the tests.
I use a plastic bucket and have had great results. I use a stainless coil with a cooler of ice water and an aquarium pump for my temp control. works great, I can brew lagers when its 90 degrees in my un insulated garage.
I do use a keg for fermenting my IPAs though.
If you’re kegging switch to stainless kegs or pressure capable PET. You can do closed transfers and pressurize. Really fun
Plastic buckets are generally made of HDPE which has a higher level of O2 permeability than PET. Plus a lot of PET carboys have an extra layer of non permeable plastic inside that prohibits o2 ingress further. I would hypothesize the brew bucket would perform worse than the PET in a triangle test. Would be interesting to see it done though.
So what you're saying is I should upgrade my fermzilla with a stainless option? If you say so. I'll tell the wife you made me
The Fermzilla is a bit different, as far as I understand. 1. The material is considerably thicker than the material of the plastic containers shown here (at least the ones I know) 2. It makes a huge difference if you use the Fermzilla under pressure or not...
@@axelk.4273that is not the answer he is looking for... 😂
fermzilla makes top notch quality beer. Best off learning how to use a few of those as well as you can!
@@Bigz4ch87 Yep! I'm fermenting all my lagers in a fermzilla using pressure fermentation. Only using my stainless steel conical for ales, Weißbier, Belgians etc.
Brülosophy - your proud scapegoat since 2014
After years of brewing I still use a plastic bucket (kept srupulously clean) with a good firm tight fitting lid and a grommeted airlock (or blow-off tube). I also have two PET clear carboy type fermenters with wide lids more common here in the UK than glass carboys. I use these at ambient temperatures in the winter for ales as they don't fit into my under-counter style brewfridge. I've often thought about investing in an SS Brewtech stainless fermenter but again it would be too large to go in the brewfridge. Bottom line - my beers taste great!
And that's all that matters..
I've fermented in everything from SS brewtech unitanks to plastic buckets. The best bang for your buck for fail-proof quality is fermzilla, and I use them specifically because they are so EASY to clean, compared to cleaning every nook and cranny of a unitank (gaskets, triclamps, etc..). I own three and will transfer fermzilla to fermzilla for dryhopping or adjuncting. Makes fantastic beer! Cheers, another great video!
Started with a plastic bucket, but couldn't get the smell out after a couple of brews. Switched to SS. Safest option, easiest to clean, indestructible. Added bonus of being able to do a no chill directly into the fermenter. Boiling wort straight into the SS, then leave it to cool naturally overnight in the sealed fermenter. Pop the bung and pitch the yeast (which has been on the stir plate doing a vitality starter) through a sanitized SS funnel the next morning. This process works best with the malt forward/low hops/dark beers I prefer, I don't do this for the hop forward IPAs that are popular at the moment.
I use an SS Conical and i love it. Easy to keep clean, easy to use and i love the clarity i get from my beer
Started brewing with plastic buckets, then glass carboys, then hdpe speidel and finally settled on corny keg. Easy to clean, allows pressure transfer. Thanks for the great and informative videos!
I love the good old uni tank. Ideally whiskey glycol connection in the jacket. I’m very pleased to see that there is more coming out and they seem to get cheaper.
Even though I do oxygen-free transfers using my FerMonster fermenter, I might consider a stainless steel brew bucket after watching this video. To be honest though, no one has ever complained of oxidation in my beer. Thanks for the info! Cheers!🍻
I don't exactly know the FerMonster, but at the least for the Fermzilla (which should be quite similar), this is a bit different, as far as I understand. 1. The material is considerably thicker than the material of the plastic containers shown here (at least the ones I know) 2. It makes a huge difference if you use the Fermzilla/FerMonster under pressure or not...
I've been using open stainless steel fermenters for all my real ales since I went 'commercial' 9 years' ago and have won many awards for my beers, so I must be doing something right. I think that open fermenters allow the yeast to work best as it's less 'stressed'. I believe even some German breweries are now installing brand new open stainless fermenting vessels too. Keep up the good work, love the vids.
Great video Martin! I picked up 2 6.5g kegs a while back and pretty much always ferment in those. works for me!
Whatever's clean is my usual go-to - I try to make that be my conical, but sometimes it's a carboy or bucket.
Corny keg. Cheap stainless option, easy low 02 transfers, perfect for spunding for carbonation.
Hey Martin, great exbeeriment! I ferment in a Fermonster PET carboy (reasonable cost; fits into my small chest freezer/fermentation chamber). PET is pretty standard in the food industry so I don't worry too much. I don't seem to get any off flavors or aromas and make pretty decent beer so I will keep using plastic. Take heart plastic fermenter users. Here is the conclusion of an article from Beer & Brewing Magazine (April 5, 2016): Excellent fermentation vessels are made from both glass and plastic, and you can ferment great beer in either material. Think about how you like to brew beer, and choose the option that best suits your process and lifestyle. Stay Thirsty My Friend!
Wish you added a 5 gallon bucket. Trying to start cheap
I used to use a plastic bucket, which I think is pretty common for homebrewers. So it would have been great to see that tested. But overall another good video! I ferment and serve out of the same corny keg now and love it.
I used plastic buckets, went to glass, went to a blichmann conical, then to a anvil and brewtech stainless bucket fermenters. I hated my conical. It was way too much cleaning since I wasn't collecting yeast. Stainless buckets are dope. I pressure transfer just fine at low pressure. I have fermented in a corny at pressure and that was nice too but I like my buckets better for no pressure fermentations
Once the wort starts to ferment, C02 made by the yeast will displace the air within the fermenter. It is when you transfer that the issue starts with oxidation. Pressure vessels are the way to go at the end of fermentation, transfer without oxygen.
I suspect that the difference in fermentation behavior had more influence on the PET batch than the fermentation vessel.
I used to use normal plastic fermenters, mostly the current Coopers fermenters with the loose fitting lid. They've been well used over the last few years and are showing cracks at the bottom, so I started replacing them with a FermZilla and two Apollo Snubnose conical pressure fermenters (all PET). I have yet to make an ale in them but my lagers seem to be better than ever...or it is wishful thinking to justify the expense :) But the fact that it cuts the time from pitch to keg by a week is quite an incentive.
I have an Anvil Bucket fermenter and now I just largely ferment in a corny keg. No perceivable difference in the beer, plus I can pressure ferment if I want, as well as pressure transfers, which I think are the best benefit. Will be fermenting a 1.130 OG imperial stout in the keg next week. That should an interesting one.
Glad to hear. I have been fermenting in a spike fermenter, and wanted to try the corny keg to avoid transfers. Looking forward to trying it. I will be using a floating dip tub as well!
@@kevinrich5312 yeah a floating dip tube is a must! I also ferment 3 gallon batches in mine. Perfect size for those.
I brew 4.5 gallons at one time. I ferment in korny and my choice for my madness is a Mexican IPA. Grist is all Mexican with nottingham as the yeast, using a spunding valve.
The reason for the korny as my choice is I can throw in my wort hot into the keg and let it cool down the next day. All this is to limit my cleaning and have my brew day of less than 5 hours, but I have also done a two hour brew day (which is off this subject). So my answer is less cleaning and least amount of space taken to produce my IPA. Saludos
Martin, have you compared single infusion to step mash?
Have just upgraded to the new BrewBuilt X3 fermenter because I was reliably informed that it’s the fermenter used on the International Space Station.
Lofi amateur who always uses glass over plastic for fermentation. Glass is super easy to scrub-a-dub-dub. Plastic tends to get scratched or damaged in someway so it's not totally smooth for long. Which I would guess is a problem. SS is awesome but expensive. I need the flexibility to move all my gear around filled or not. Not much room.
Does it matter how full the fermenter is? I often have mine about half full.
Stainless for the win!
What interesting results. One of the only experiments i’d think no significance
Stainless steel conical after breaking two glass carboys. Got one 6 gallon glass one left.
Have you done a taste test between bottle, can, and keg?
Stainless steel bucket or conical are my preference.
I wonder if PET vs HDPE matters. I use HDPE buckets that are just like home depot buckets.
HDPE has higher levels of permeability compared to PET, but it's a bit harder to find PET carboys. The only thing I would caution is making sure to use food-grade HDPE buckets as opposed to things like home depot buckets, since there is a chance chemicals or oils including heavy metals may have been used in the plastic used to manufacture the bucket that can leech into your beer. May or may not cause health problems but also may change the flavor of the beer.
Everyone talks about how impervious stainless steel fermenters are to O2 because stainless steel is, but all such vessels have rubber or silicone gaskets that definitely allow O2 to enter. And while the lid gasket on a keg isn't that large, the lid gasket on a conical fermenter is pretty significant. In addition, many conicals have tons of tri clamp ports, all of which have rubber or silicone gaskets that can let in O2. I wonder if anyone has done testing on how much O2 gets in through the various gaskets. I think Kegland had some research done on that and came up with a new type of lid gasket for kegs.
I believe that CO2 is heavier than O2, so once fermentation starts I wouldn't expect it to make a difference
I ferment at least under some pressure in a wide 10 gallon Torpedo keg. So you're saying for example that my pilsner I just got going under 5 PSI is currently taking O2 in because the vessel has gaskets? I'm really curious as to how a pressurized keg is taking the outside 02. I'm totally open to being wrong, but I really want to know the data and how this is even possible in my situation. Wouldn't this only happen if the pressure was equal or lower inside the fermenter? If the the gaskets are permeable wouldn't C02 leak out of them from the pressure versus 02 being sucked in?
I ferment in kegs. cheapest unitank, and the only going to 9 bars!! So simple cleaning, same format as serving kegs, because, well, they are the same...
I wonder or the difference becomes more pronounced when leaving in secondary for month.
What about HDPE fermentation vessel?
My choice is SS brewtech conical unitank.
But seriously I made good beer with Fermzilla.
Now my hobby is out of control.😅
Blinded participants? Why did you blind them? What did they do?
Allrounder
I just use a plastic bucket and open ferment most of my ales.
dont try a neipa xD
From a pro brewers perspective, Fermzilla is best.