Vietnamese used to look very different…
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2023
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Hi, thanks for watching the video!
📄 More on Chữ Nôm 📄
• Some people recently standardized Chữ Nôm. You can find a table of 5000+ characters here: www.hannom-rcv.org/BCHNCTD.html
(All credits go to Hán Nôm Revival Committee of Vietnam)
• CORRECTION: At 5:15, I said "except for one occasion in history." In fact, there were two. The other occasion happened during the Tây Sơn Dynasty (西山朝), where Chữ Nôm was actually used in examination.
• At 6:03 I gave some examples of famous works written in Chữ Nôm, you can read more about each work here: (some of them don't have an english translation though)
- Chinh Phụ Ngâm Khúc: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinh_p...
- Bánh Trôi Nước, Quả Mít: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%E1%BB...
- Lục Vân Tiên: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%E1%BB...
- Truyện Kiều: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tal...
- Qua Đèo Ngang: viethocjournal.com/2020/05/ba-...
• Chữ Nôm (Nom characters) and Chữ Hán (漢字 Hán tự/Chinese characters) are not the same. Chữ Nôm is Vietnamese-invented characters AND Chữ Hán combined.
• Did Vietnamese used to sound different from now? Yes! It is also reflected in Chữ Nôm: in Vietnamese, "the moon" is "trăng." Back then, they used a character that has the sound component 巴 (ba) and 夌 (lăng), which suggests it was actually read blăng. Modern Vietnamese doesn't have the "bl" sound anymore and we changed it to "trăng" instead.
• Does Vietnamese people still use Chữ Nôm? - No, we can't even read any Chinese unless we take classes.
• Where can I learn Chữ Nôm? - i don't know
🔎 Frequently asked questions 🔎
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• Microphone? - Random $45 mic I found on Shopee called Maono DM30 (gave me electric shock a few times, i am scared)
• How to make videos like this? - It is a powerpoint slide with a little editing.
• What languages can you speak? - Vietnamese (native), English (fluent), Japanese (N4), Cantonese (A1~A2)
• Any last word? - hoping this video won't flop 😔
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Do you teach Amharic?
em also mean younger sibling
Trong video bạn có nhắc đến việc chữ Nôm được sử dụng như chữ quốc ngữ (trong các loại văn bản chính thức) ở mỗi triều đại nhà Hồ. Thực ra thì không đúng, Hồ Quý Ly chỉ mới đưa chữ Nôm vào nội dung thi cử, cho dịch một số sách chữ Hán ra chữ Nôm. Còn triều đại duy nhất trong lịch sử đưa chữ Nôm lên làm quốc tự chính là Tây Sơn. Có thể vì xuất thân từ nông dân nên có một số thứ mà chỉ vị vua như Quang Trung mới nhìn nhận được. Từ đó dẫn đến cải cách có một không hai trong lịch sử VN. Mong bạn để ý đến thiếu sót này.
anhh làm về chữ hán đi:)))
Thế bạn có biết ngôn ngữ lái không
In ancient times, China, Vietnam, Korea, and Japan all used the same type of writing (Traditional Chinese characters). That means, if we don't understand each other verbally, we can still communicate through writing. Very interesting.
It's like communicating with emojis. Ppl give emojis different names but they convey the same/similar message 😃
That is Literary Chinese.
That's how it was.
But your people's took many lame decisions, now you're so far and spread :)
@@xmaverickhunterkx Lame decisions? We Viets have ALWAYS wanted to distance ourselves from anything chinese (blacking of teeth, wars against china, etc...) so by switching to the alphabet, we did a GREAT THING! Always, ANYONE with a brain can EASILY READ AND WRITET VIETNAMESE within just A MONTH of learning. Compared that to the STUPID chinese system which requires you AT LEAST TEN LONG YEARS to just do the same things.
Both Mao and Chang Kai-Shek wanted to COPY Vietnam by introducing the alphabet but they FAILED MISERABLY.
@@xmaverickhunterkx very chauvinistic of you there 💀
I am fluent in Mandarin and Cantonese and now I live in Vietnam learning Vietnamese.
Sometimes when I don't know a word in Vietnamese I say the Cantonese word and more often than not people actually understand what I mean :D
Same here. My wife is vietnamese and whenever I have a hard time communicating I just say it in cantonese and 70% the time the words is identical
That’s not because we learn cantonese but we watch a lot of Hong Kong movies 😂😂😂 ngộ tả lị xị ớ
I’m Cantonese and I’m fluent in English and mandarin and learning Japanese
I know Cantonese and Vietnamese. Only a small percentage of Cantonese borrowed into Vietnamese.
Yeah, that's probably because of the Minh Hương
back when i was 5, my grandad often tried to teach me chữ nôm cause he used to teach it to people but when the france colonized vietnam,it was removed from school and my grandad became unemployed.And i hated chữ nôm because is too hard to learn and study so i avoided when ever my grandad tried to teach me.Later i got told that my grandad was litterally the only person from my homeland that knew chữ nôm and he wanted to teach me it because he wanted to pass it down to the next genaration which me :(
tiếc
Đọc mà cảm thấy hụt hẫng vài nhịp 🥹
Bro most Vietnamese guys I know say it’s good chu nom was abandoned now most Viets can read and write their own language and Vietnamese should not be written in either Latin or chu nom. I think Vietnamese should be written in abugida like Devanagari or an Arabic based script. If Vietnam did that then they could distance themselves from French and sinosphere culture which is what Vietnam desperately needs.
Surprised to see somebody mentioning Perso-Arabic based script for Vietnamese, which would be intriguing a sight to see (İ've personally made one myself and İ think it works pretty well). Of course, it seems that people are more welcoming about adopting Latin alphabet for their language than the other way round, so that poses a real challenge.
Anh bao nhiêu tuổi thế ạ?
A nicely detailed (and entertaining) description of Chữ Nôm! And congratulations on getting sponsored!
You're too kind T_T
no way it's the the other language guy
Eradicated indigenous Champa people wanna say a word.
Đó là chữ hán mà😲
@@vyhuynh332 Bro k bt chữ Nôm à? Nó được phát triển dựa trên chữ Hán chứ nó không phải là chữ Hán:)
Trước học văn thấy nhắc đến chữ Nôm, nhưng nhờ video này mình mới thật sự hiểu và được thấy trông nó ra sao :)) Cảm ơn bạn vì video bổ ích!!
I get excited whenever I see a new linguistic video about a Sinosphere language (CJKV). It's interesting that Vietnamese, unlike Korean and Japanese, didn't develop a native phonetic script, but continued with the logographic type.I think that's mostly because of language structure.Japanese and Korean are agglutinative, so they need phonetic script to represent particles, suffixes, conjugations etc, while Vietnamese is analytical, same like Chinese, which means no inflection, and logographic writing just fits well into analytic languages, so no need for a phonetic script.
Sinosphere is a racist stereotyping imagination of Asia created by incest white males and western colonialists
INDONeSIAN is also sinotic language!
@@carlisclosetedphgt3666 ..it's not
@@carlisclosetedphgt3666 except its not
@@carlisclosetedphgt3666 Is Indonesia a miniature China?
Mình rất cảm ơn bạn vì đã làm ra video này. Cách mà bạn truyền đạt rất tích cực T.T. Bởi vì trước giờ mình rất buồn khi tưởng rằng dường như chỉ có mình là thích tìm hiểu về chữ nôm trong khi bạn bè trang lứa thì lại chẳng biết một chút gì cả, thậm chí đôi khi còn đánh đồng với chữ hán.
Cũng không trách được, thời đại bây giờ mà học chữ Nôm thì chẳng có gì để thực dụng trong xã hội cả nên tự khắc chẳng còn mấy ai quan tâm nữa, từ đó sinh ra nhiều lỗ hổng kiến thức với những quan niệm sai lầm.
Thực sự coi xong video của bạn phần nào trong mình cảm thấy ấm lòng hơn hẳn. Những thông tin mà bạn đã chia sẻ sẽ cực kì hữu ích đối với những người mới bắt đầu tìm hiểu về chữ Nôm hoặc là chưa có kiến thức căn bản (Tất nhiên là đối với những ai biết tiếng Anh). Hơn hết, cách trình bày của bạn rất dễ hiểu, mặc dù là tóm tắt nhưng vẫn đầy đủ. Cách dẫn của bạn cũng rất dễ thương và hài hước nữa! 🥺
Mình cũng đã thắc mắc về chữ Nôm từ lâu nhưng đến giờ mới có dịp tìm hiểu kỹ hơn. Không biết chúng ta có thể add friend FB để trao đổi không? ^^
Ai hỏi
Respect bro:D
lol
@@binhtrinh5915 t hỏi đấy r sao
Spent seven years learning and mastering Chinese, swore I'd never learn another language but now I want to learn Viet just for this fun stuff.
DO IT. I have too many languages on my plate right now to learn it but you won’t regret it, the more you go down the rabbit hole the more engaging it gets. It will definitely be tough but I can imagine it will be worth it!
Vietnamese is a Mon Khmer language. Chinese is a Sinitic language.
Completety intelligible
@@cudanmang_theog do you mean intelligible or unintelligible?
@@abdullahal-mamun1053 prob the first one
Vietnamese has a lot of shared vocabulary with Chinese, so it will be much more easier.
Never expected someone would explain Vietnamese History in such a way in English :0
+1000000000000 respect!
Hay cc mà hay đoạn cuối nó nói Pháp mang bảng chữ cái Latinh đến Việt Nam là sai rồi, chữ quốc ngữ là nhờ các giáo sĩ Bồ đào nha
One thing to note: Chữ quốc ngữ is actually the product of Portuguese missionaries.
P/s: and no one wants claim him because he's Christian and a spy for a colonization, even though Portuguese are not French ally and their colonies are never meant to oppress people than trade hub and slave port
@@fw2o2jt You are wrong! They are all Christian missionaries. They were not interested in spying for anyone but only wanted to spread the Bible. Vietnamese feudalist was very bad in treating Westerners. Wonder why Thailand could avoid of being colonized by the West. Nowadays, Vietnam has streets named after 'Alexandre de Rhodes' in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh city.
Hi, I'm a Vietnamese Canadian and I find your videos very helpful and informative. It's nice connecting a bit with my culture. If you don't mind could you expand on the Vietnamese texts that you said Vietnamese people know and what they're about, and maybe the meanings behind them? it is hard to find complete translated works here. Thank you.
Hi, do you mean the ones at 6:03? Those are famous works of Vietnamese literature written in Chữ Nôm. Hope this helps :)
@@keitstuff what are they called, so we can look them up?
@@mariehuynh Hi, I've updated the description so you can find more information about the works!
You can look them up by “Thơ Nôm” (poems in Chữ Nôm) keyword
May i ask if your had a Chinese ancestor? Cuz i saw your last name Lam, which is a last name came from southern China
This is interesting. Thank you for making this. I will point out that for someone who can read classical Chinese, we can read more of that poem example than you first state. 如果 does mean if in modern Chinese, but in classical Chinese it can be read "as like a fruit" too, and that's how I initially understood it. It's not a reflection necessarily of Vietnamese grammar per se, as classical Chinese would have done the same. Where it differs is that the kind of fruit "jackfruit" would of had the descriptor before not after... ie. maoguo instead of quamit, as in Vietnamese. Additionally, while I have never seen the character em specifically, I immediately knew it meant "my" because classical Chinese uses "ang" 俺 as the pronoun historically, and many Chinese dialects today still do. The female distinction, however, I have not seen before. Again, the thing that is different is the possessive pronoun goes after the subject in Vietnamese, whereas in Chinese it would precede it. (ie. My body versus Body mine).
For me as a classical Chinese reader, I initially understood "Body mine like a fruit 'blah tree' blah 'another blah tree'. The hardest one for me was the character tren. My initial guess was something like 'besides' or 'following'. I was focused on the bottom 连 part, and not the 上 on the top.
Nonetheless, this was great. Thank you for sharing.
果 is not used as a descriptor, but rather as a classifier for fruits; technically mít 櫗 can appear by itself as a free morpheme without 果. I believe the word order is still the same in Modern Chinese, i.e. "那（個）學生". 俺 is not related to 㛪, the 奄 is purely just used for the sound. Em typically means a younger male or female sibling, so the 女 radical does not really show any semantics.
This is fascinating. All the languages which borrowed from classical Chinese - I would say their usages, although quite different from modern Chinese, could be viewed as a record of what classical Chinese was like. They are basically frozen in time, from that time period of adoption.
@@nomnaday Well clearly to be female meant you were NOT the superior. Hence the 女 radical. It's semantic alright. & in modern Vietnamese, still, the female that is part of a cisgender heteronormative cisgender couple will definitely be using EM to refer to herself.
身㛪如果櫗𨕭𣘃 My body is like a jackfruit (hanging) on a tree,
𤿭伮摳縐梅伮𠫅 This skin, it's rough; this pulp, it's dense.
君子𣎏𢞅時㨂梮 My lord, when you have need (of me) poke (me with your) stake,
吀𠏦𢺳𢱖𣺾𦋦𢬣 Please stop fingering (me), the sap (will come) out (onto your) hands.
NOTES:
梅 can be 枚, a segment/ section, usually of fruit.
Wiki has 𠫅 as 厚台 (one character) -- dày --- also written as 𠫅/苔 meaning "thick/ deep/ dense." Could it also mean 苔 "mossy/furry" in this poem...?
𣎏𢞅 could be written as 固要
吀𠏦 is just 請停
Sassy Vietnamese poetess Hồ Xuân Hương 胡春香 (1782-1822) had to write her epic Jackfruit poem in Nôm cuz Lord knows those Confucian elites didn't want her dirty poem written in Chinese!
@@peekaboopeekaboo1165 Yes.
As a Chinese I must say, you foresaw my reaction 100% in 1:20 😂 that is literally me trying to understand the sentence by recognising only the Chinese characters sometimes I have the same experience with reading Japanese
This is really interesting because Korean had something very similar between 7th and 10th century AD (unified Silla period). It was called Hyangchal, used to write a collection of Hyangga- many of them Buddhist poems written by monks at the time. Similar to how you describe the Chữ Nôm system, Hyangchal uses homophonic Chinese characters for native Korean words (including grammar structures), and very occasionally uses Chinese loan words (back in the day they used more native Korean words than now). There are basically 0 resources for the average person (except for an inaccurate recording by a Japanese UA-camr) and virtually all Koreans can't read it (even scholars have to make educated guesses). There are also virtually no accurate English translations on the internet as many of these western scholars do not have the cultural understanding behind these poems.
I found this fascinating, like you did with Chữ Nôm, and created this channel to explore the reconstructions of this language. Great video!
The Jackfruit poem really hits different when you understand Vietnamese 😂
Well I don’t and I’m not sure if I’m reading too far into it but it seemed unholy.
Well I don’t and I’m not sure if I’m reading too far into it but it seemed unholy.
身㛪如果櫗𨕭𣘃 My body is like a jackfruit (hanging) on a tree,
𤿭伮摳縐梅伮𠫅 This skin, it's rough; this pulp, it's dense.
君子𣎏𢞅時㨂梮 My lord, when you have need (of me) poke (me with your) stake,
吀𠏦𢺳𢱖𣺾𦋦𢬣 Please stop fingering (me), the sap (will come) out (onto your) hands.
NOTES:
梅 can be 枚, a segment/ section, usually of fruit.
Wiki has 𠫅 as 厚台 (one character) -- dày --- also written as 𠫅/苔 meaning "thick/ deep/ dense." Could it also mean 苔 "mossy/furry" in this poem...?
𣎏𢞅 could be written as 固要
吀𠏦 is just 請停
Sassy Vietnamese poetess Hồ Xuân Hương 胡春香 (1782-1822) had to write her duuurty classic in Nôm cuz Lord knows those Confucian elites didn't want her filth written in Chinese!
@@Jumpoable holy hell this thing is really dirty...
@@phucnguyenhong3388 Love a rebellious punk artiste, especially one living during her dynasty.
Such a great channel I have just discovered. I wanted this video for so long. Thank you.
After learning japanese for about a year. I was pleasantly surprised to find out just how much our languages had in common since it made learning chinese loan words significantly easier. From there, I started looking into other languages in the sinosphere and chữ Hán Việt. After countless hours of sleeping or slacking off in Ngữ Văn I never thought me of all people would ever take an interest in the subject. I never knew history and geography could have such a massive impact on so many cultures/languages. It's really nice to see someone else who had the same experience as you. Also thanks for recommending rikaikun that thing is a life saver
it's like knowing "philosphy" in english is the same as "philosophie" in french and german
Writing systems don't mean grammar is the same. Japanese isn't a Sino-Tibetan language. Funny enough, Burmese language technically is, but for some reason no one pays attention to it, which is sad.
@@natheniel ないす
@@nathenielThat’s kind of a Roman sphere of influence
@@jeffrey2326 exactly my point! Chinese, Roman what's the difference?
Ahhhh, that is gorgeous! Thanks a lot for a video! I’ve studied Chinese and watched some short videos about Vietnamese. So cool to find out about this writing system.
I've just watched 2 videos of Keit for the past 2 days and I love them all
really love your content 🥰
This was far more entertaining and educational than I expected... Thank you for doing this.
Dude, this is brilliant work! Thank you so much for the excellent and informative video! You have no idea how precious and valuable this is to the preservation of Vietnamese culture and history. I wish there will be and App for this Chữ Nôm dictionary by inputing the Vietnamese charectors. Please keep up the great work! Very much appreciated! Peace!
"em" can also means 'younger' as in age as a bro, sis, and the same age as them at any gender, despite it has a 女 radical.
Remind me the english words 'girl' in Middle Ages, it used to refer for youngs in any gender, at the time 'boy' were derogatory as a servants or slave.
Yes, because in Vietnamese everyone is third person. Even when speaking of oneself you may refer to yourself as "em" (younger brother or sister), "mình" (body) or most commonly "tôi" (subject). If you´re speaking to your younger brother or sister (em) you can name yourself "anh" (older brother) or "chị" (older sister). Older people may refer to themselves as "ông" (grandpa) or "bà" (grandmother).
Well in a misogynistic patriarchy, whether it's Confucian or Christian, to be female meant you were clearly NOT the superior. Hence the 女 radical. & in modern Vietnamese, still, the female that is part of a cisgender heteronormative cisgender couple will definitely be using EM to refer to herself.
@@Jumpoable "Cisgender heteronormative cisgender couple...!" It´s stuff like that that makes me read Vietnamese stories in original. Stories such as "Cây tre trăm đốt" where the hero of the story, in this case Khoai, eventually gets a wife as a gift are a relief in our times!
@@Jumpoable Nochmals ich, Rüdiger. Johannes, versprichst du dir von solchen Sprüchen Chancen bei Frauen und, wenn ja, bei welchen? Schenk lieber wieder Blumen und Pralinen! Und noch eine Frage: Hast du Angst die dritte große "misogynistische Patriarchie" (Anfangsbuchstabe "I") namentlich zu benennen?
@@ruedigernassauer No idea what you're talking about but I'll look into it LOL.
One the things that got me really interested in Vietnamese was chữ nôm!
Thank you for sharing more about this awesome script, it's a shame that not more people know about it, much less know how to read it.
Amazing, this is the kind of content creator we need nowadays
agreed
This was so easy to understand as i am korean and basically it was like this in korea even after we made our own alphabet. Japan also does something similar but slightly different
Really like your videos, never imagined that vietnamese could be so interesting and rich, thanks
Never saw any better explanation on chữ Nôm. Really specific in linguistic knowledge yet compound enough for a non linguist to understand. Thank you, keep it going. You deserve a Ph.D.
Very well made! The only suggestion I would have is to briefly elaborate at the end of the video the comment you made at the start about very few oeople today knowing how to read the characters. I would have been interested in hearing just a little more about that.
But this is a great video, and I would enjoy watching more of your videos.
if im not wrong some Japanese Kanji was adopted by sound just kinda like this as well.
Very educated and entertaining video as usual, love your work here!
hiragana is just simplified chinese characters based on the sounds iirc..
@@lyhthegreat correct, hiragana and katakana are simplified kanji which where chosen because of the sounds.
Hiragana and katana were created based on the sounds yes, but kanjis are picture/symbol based I believe. A common method of learning JP kanji is by drawings and scenarios
@@awiiator "invented" makes it sound they were made from scratch. Both hiragana and katakana are _derived_ from kanji. Ex. 加 → か and カ
While many kanji are derived from pictograms, many are also "subject" + "sound".
Tôi là người Việt Nam tôi rất cảm kích vì bạn làm ra được video này
(Cười thật to😂😂😂😂😂)
He he
thass a lot of accents jesus
Great video, and funny too! I always wanted to know more about this subject! Thank you for making this video ❤
It’s great finding people around the world how have the same interests as you 😢
One thing that I thought: since there are too many Chu Nom to make it practical to revive it, wouldn't it at least be used as determinatives for those homophones? The Korean still use Hanja for this in some occasions, writing first the phonetic Hangeul and then writing the Hanja there to show the meaning. I think it would be neat to see a revival of the Vietnamese Chu Nom for such occasions. Thank you for the great work you pit into this video, you gained a new subscriber with it.
Thanks for making this video! It's always great to see more stuff about Chữ Nôm. Studying it ended up being my COVID hobby. It's kind of sad that it's fallen to the wayside: besides the hundred years of literature written in it, Chữ Nôm (and Han Nôm) provide a lot of neat windows into the development of the language, give context for how Viet fits among the CJKV languages, and provides additional perspective on how different writing systems can work, especially coming from knowing only Latin writing systems. I remember when I first was learning it I was delighted to see another dimension of information that could be encoded in a logographic system, and it seemed to fit so well with Vietnamese (which now I come to realize might be due it being an analytical language).
Thank you. Very detailed and informative.
You explained the chữ nôm too good, bruh I didn't even into it before but I do now. Love this content ❤
very informational and interesting
you make great videos!
Nhiều bạn trẻ giờ còn tưởng ông bà ta nói được cả tiếng Trung Quốc chỉ vì đọc được chữ Hán 🤣 ông bà ta tạo nên chữ nôm cũng bằng nguyên tắc lục thư của Hứa Thận (chỉ thiếu tượng hình), còn lại hình thanh, hội ý, giả tá, chỉ sự, chuyển chú đều có cả.
象形字是第一批诞生的汉字，用于表示具象和直观的物体或动作。但是随着文明的发展，诞生了大量无法用图画表达的抽象概念，因此古代中国人才会陆续发明其他五种造字法来创制新的汉字。因为喃字是古代越南知识分子直接使用汉字拼合的，所以自然没有象形字。喃字有很多的形声字，这种字事实上就是表音文字，所以我觉得越南人完全可以像朝鲜人或者日本人一样，发明一种纯粹的标音符号来记录越南语。这样不但可以更简单地记录发音，也可以保留越南自己的文化特征。今天的拉丁越南文尽管很简单很科学，但是唯独缺少了鲜明的越南本土文化底蕴，非常遗憾。
Great and informative video about chu nom. Thank you
Omg that is so cool!! When I used to see words in Chữ Nôm, I would thought either it's very difficult Chinese or 亂碼, I never even stopped to think I could be a complete different language and it makes so much sense.
Cảm ơn admin rất nhiều vì đã làm ra video này, dù là tóm tắt nhưng vẫn đầy đủ và rất dễ hiểu. Love from Việt Nam 🇻🇳
ụa bạn Nghi
Ủa ổng là người việt hả =))
@@KaiSmith_Ninjago hông biết nữa =))
@@kmnghi2010đr:))
Việt Nam, Trung Quốc, Đài Loan, Hongkong, Nhật Bản và Hàn Quốc có nền văn hoá tương đồng. Điều đó được thể hiện qua các kiến trúc cổ, văn hoá gia đình và chữ viết. Có lẽ Trung Quốc là cái nôi của nhóm 6 quốc gia này. Bởi hầu hết chữ viết cổ của các quốc gia đều là chữ phổn thể. Sau này có Việt Nam và Hàn Quốc là dùng một bộ chữ mới hoàn toàn, còn Nhật Bản tuy cũng có bộ chữ mới nhưng vẫn còn nhiều chữ giống chữ Trung giản thể ngày nay.
Thanks for the great video and a lot of work.
Very amazing video about Chu Nom!
xin cho hỏi bạn là youtuber người Việt à
lần đầu thấy youtuber là người Việt mà dám làm content tiếng Anh cho cả thế giới xem
đáng nể !!
nope người nước ngoài chuẩn luôn đấy bạn ko phải người Việt mình đâu
Imagine having to learn a completely separate language just to be able to write anything down. This was the European experience with Latin. It made the bar to literacy far too high.
Most Africans and some other postcolonial regions even today mostly have to learn European colonial languages to survive in the modern world, even while staying their whole life in their country, a lot don't even write anything in their native language and also even in their home country all government/education/even a lot if entertainment is done in European languages. And obviously, that's even worse for people living in settler states like the Haida people of North America.
thank you bro for making video about my country's history, nice content, keep it up
Very interesting video! Crazy how languages develop
I find that the closest Chinese language I know of to Vietnamese is Cantonese because of its tonality and similar pronunciation. When I visited Hanoi with a little bit of prior Vietnamese language experience, I found myself understanding about 20-30% of native Viet conversations. I'm sure there are other Chinese dialects close to the Vietnamese border that sound even more similar though.
If you would go to rural canton district countrysides you still can hear shades of Vietnamese and Thai dialects spoken very close to cantonese tones
Hainanese is more similar to Cantonese than Vietnamese IMO, and Cantonese is more similar to Zhuang than Vietnamese.
Well, the first time i came to this channel was when i see u post the video “thought on Cantonese as a Viet” i didn’t think u would go serious with the language cuz i dont see u upload video very often. This video proof me wrong by showing ur effort doing the research on the dead language that me myself - a vnm born on vn land cant even read that language. I shall give u my subscribe and wish u can forever make me surprise with every video u upload. ❤ for u
Thank you for your video ❤😊
This is so interesting! Thank you
It's interesting how if you swap the order of the nouns and adjectives you get grammatically correct Chinese. Like Chinese it appears that Vietnamese also excludes the use of definite and indefinite articles. As a Chinese speaker, this makes Vietnamese feel very familiar, and possibly easier to pick up.
I'm pretty sure that most languages don't have articles. Heck, even many Indo-European languages don't have articles (they're common in the Germanic and Romance languages but not elsewhere; heck, though the Romance languages have articles, Latin didn't). Though, in many languages, the existence of articles is dubious; specifically, often the indefinite article is the some word as "one" and the definite article is the some word as "that" (that was the case in Old English, but in Modern English, the link is purely etymological).
@@ghenulo It's not just about the articles. Vietnamese also doesn't require verb conjugation and doesn't use verb tenses. Which is why if I rearrange the words in the Vietnamese poem, and substitute in Chinese characters for the native Vietnamese ones, the sentence reads pretty close to correct. I can't do that with European languages.
@@kuanged That's because Vietnamese and Modern Chinese are both analytic languages, while many European languages fall into the category of synthetic / agglunative languages. Vietnamese is an even more extreme case in the analytic-synthetic spectrum, as it is an isolating language.
My grandfather used it, he used it for poetry and writing among his peers.
Damn this channel is gonna blow up some day. Im subscribing!!
this thought me how to say a word in Tiếng việt, like Chữ Nôm and Chữ Quốc Nôm and other stuff love this story, it make alot of sense! Cảm ơn Keit Stuff
Vietnamese, please bring back the Chu Nom alphabet!
It's not an "alphabet" and it is retarded.
As a true vietnamese, i can confirm i understand every single thing this man says
Bro the drawings really enhance the learning experience. I like me drawings of stickmen because you can tell whoever made this actually put time into drawing. The simplicity makes it look cute in a way. Especially that one shot when they are holding up the chraicters made by Vietnam, Korea, and Japan.
A helpful and informative video. OMG!!!
i am happy to know that very tropical fruits "jack fruits" has a character, which consists of 木(tree) and 蔑(contempt). i suppose they may use 蔑 to express some disappointment when they cut open it to find there were mostly non edible cotton there.
It's just borrowed for the sound. No deep meaning
As a HongKonger, I already know that a lot of languages has used the base Traditional Chinese writing system in their language developing process, but I never knew how, and was kind of curious, now I know, it’s got me into thinking about learning Vietnamese :D
btw your Cantonese is so good!
Good job on the video!
"Chữ viết truyền thống cơ bản của Trung Quốc"?
Chữ Hán không phải là chữ tượng hình hoàn toàn mà là chữ hình thanh,chữ Hán hiện tại được hình thành trên cơ sở chữ Khoa Đẩu của người Việt,còn chữ viết thật sự của Trung Quốc là chữ tượng hình
Vì nguồn gốc chữ của người Việt là chữ tượng thanh nên người Việt luôn đọc và dạy theo âm thanh của chữ khi phát âm ra,điều đó giải thích tại sao chữ Nôm ra đời và nó chỉ dựa theo sự phát âm của âm tiết đó chứ không dùng hình ảnh mà chữ đó tạo ra,nguồn gốc là chữ tượng thanh thì sẽ luôn luôn trở về với cách dùng chữ tượng thanh
Bạn là người Trung Quốc nên cũng biết chắc chắn người Trung Quốc được dạy cách phát âm bằng cách chọn một loạt chữ có phát âm giống nhau để phát âm và phân biệt sự khác nhau giữa các âm đấy,cách đọc bằng phát âm theo bảng chữ Alpha B chỉ mới có khoảng 70 năm
Nếu đọc chữ Hán theo hình ảnh mà chữ tạo ra thì nó sẽ ra một nghĩa dở hơi nào đó và thậm chí nó còn chẳng có nghĩa
I watch hongkong movies a lot ò time and I wonder if Cantonese is any different from Beijing?
His vietnamese sound good too, like a local, i dont know if he's a vietnamese or not =]]]
Yoooo, I think I like your video!! Thank you so much!!
nice video! I have always wonder what writing was like in the past
Native Vietnamese here, I find your vids super helpful. Keep it on bud❤
Delightful video! It's a bit unfortunate that the majority of Vietnam do not even know of the existence of Chữ Nôm, & those who know of it find the system to be utterly perplexing.
I'm from Hong Kong, & there seem to be a growing number of Chinese using this historical script as an aid to learn Vietnamese. I guess it's not as daunting for Chinese (or even Japanese familiar with kanji) to analyse & break apart Chữ Nôm when we put in the time.
& with all the information readily available on the net nowadays, Chữ Nôm is actually an excellent tool for those familiar with the phono-semantic radicals to memorise native Vietnamese lexicon. Obviously I have no problem with the Sino-Viet vocabulary with my mother tongue being Cantonese (with a bit of guessing, Quoc Ngu literally looks like Cantonese romanised, plus my major was Japanese & linguistics), but native Viet are a bit difficult for me to memorise in my advanced age so Chữ Nôm functions as a fantastic mnemonic.
Regarding a Chữ Han 腋 used for native "nách"... I believe nách is from the same root as "dich"... so it's not using a Chinese character for a Vietnamese word, but rather, it's a variant of scholarly "dich" and colloquial "nách". Like NOSE and NASAL in English (Yes "nasal" is from Latin, but it's clearly from the same Indo-European root). 筆, 房, 茶 are other examples (I believe there's a list on Wiki). Same as 巾 can/ khan... LOL the same word.
Vietnam is a big country, there were (& are still) many dialectal variations, or fossilised pronunciations from early eras that became thought of as native Vietnamese words when they were also from earlier forms of Chinese (again, examples in English: yard & gard(en), candle & chandelier).
Even the ridiculous Chữ Nôm character for "Chữ Nôm"... it clearly is just 字南! Yes, the *rules* say the you'd *have to* read it official as standard Sino-Viet "Tu Nam" (but OBVIOUSLY it's the same as "Chu Nôm!!!")
As you've studied Japanese, you would know that 1 kanji will have both a Sino-Japanese pronunciation (on'yomi) AND a native Japanese reading (kun'yomi). Same with Hokkien. Even other Chinese languages will sometimes assign 2 or 3 readings to a Hanzi. 樂 can be [ngok] in Cantonese, Viet [nhac], Japanese [gaku], Korean [ak], Mandarin [yue] or Cantonese [lok], Viet [lac], Jap [raku], Kor [nak], Mandarin [le]... so I believe some Chu Nom characters were quite redundant. A theory is that the Vietnamese elite deliberately made Chữ Nôm more complex than it should so that the peasants would remain illiterate, uneducated & thus powerless.
Also, when you were breaking down Jackfruit, one of my favourite Vietnamese poems (& a great Chữ Nôm primer) by poetess Hồ Xuân Hương 胡春香 (1772-1822), 如果 is definitely not modern Chinese "if"
It should be broken down as classical Chinese 如 "as" "like" ...then 果 is "fruit"
"My body is like a jackfruit (hanging) on a tree."
But yeah, keep up the good work! Love your content that shows off a healthy curious mind.
Nách is a native word, it is actually cognate with other Austroasiatic languages that weren't influenced by Chinese, Muong Bi néch; within Vietic, the uninfixed form can be seen with Tho [Cuối Chăm] kɛːk⁷. Outside of Vietic, cognate with Khmer ក្លៀក (kliək) (through a lateral infixed form), Khmu [Cuang] klʔɛk (through a lateral infixed form), Mal kɛʔ (uninfixed).
But I agree with everything else you said.
@@nomnaday It might be related to 腋 since it has the [-k] ending & a possible [nd] initial that's now lost.
You may be chuffed to know that the colloquial Cantonese word for 'armpit' is still [kla:k] / [ka la:k]/ [kaʔ la:k] but we tack [dai] 底 after it so the whole thing is [kla:k dai]. It's one of the few Austroasiatic words we've kept in everyday speech (even with an intact consonant cluster initial in rapid speech).
very informative video. Keep it up !
Very impressive channel, keep it up bro. You knew many languages
Omg, my first language is cantonese and i've been looking for people who study the relationships between our languages. Instant subscribe
Cantonese and Vietnamese languages are different. They are not the same. Vietnamese language uses a lot of sound from not just Cantonese but also Mandarin.
@@haniahannslew4108 yes, i know. I am just interested in all the relationships between them, i'm not saying they are the same.
Our pronunciation of Chinese words are a lot similar to Cantonese. When I watch old Hong Kong kungfu movies, it's always fun for me to hear how they speak.
@@ROCKSTAR3291 NO, vietnamese pronuncation is not similar to Cantonese. That is why you guys don't understand Cantonese.
@@haniahannslew4108 who is saying Vietnamese can understand Cantonese lol ? They only say some of the Chinese words in their language sound like Cantonese, which is true.
One of the reason why chữ nôm wasn't included in the curriculum is because after the declaration of independence in 1945, most of the country was illiterate, and you cannot grow a country if no one knows how to read. So a program called "Bình dân học vụ" was formed, which basically taught people how to read latin style vietnamese (chữ quốc ngữ) since it's much more easier and systematic to read them.
Unfortunately a misguided belief common at the time was that easier writing system = higher literacy (even Lu Xun called for abolition of Chinese writing). But literacy is tied to socioeconomic factors than the difficulty of the writing system. Europe has been using Latin scripts for centuries but literacy only rose after the Dark Age. Modern Japan has "hardest writing systems" but their literacy rate is 99%.
Nó đã thực sự hoạt động. Chứ cái la-tinh rất dễ để ghép. Một đứa trẻ từ 4 tuổi có thể học được dễ dàng hơn là phải nhớ một lượng lớn từ vựng chữ Hán, điều kiện lúc đó rất khó khăn, học sinh còn không có sách vở.
Phần quan trọng nhất của nó là người việt hiện tại có khả năng học các ngôn ngữ latinh dễ dàng hơn nhiều so với người Trung quốc, nhật bản và hàn quốc. Điều đó giúp cho học sinh việt nam phát triển dù trước đây chúng tôi rất rất nghèo.
@@chienpham110 Tiếng Việt có quá nhiều từ vựng để có thể dùng chữ tượng hình để biểu đạt hết các từ
@@trinh1807 chữ hán ngày nay rất nhiều hạn chế. Ngày càng nhiều từ mới xuất hiện, và nhiều từ cổ bỏ đi nên chữ Hán ko thể biểu đạt hết dc. Vd: sô-cô-la nếu dùng chữ tượng hình thì ko thể biểu đạt dc nó :))
Wow very informative vid, i never knew how chữ nôm came to be
Hay quá dậy!
Ủng bạn làm nội dung như thế này lắm nheeee!
Hey a fellow user of the Hán Nôm dictionary! :D
I only use it to check all meanings of specific Kanji characters for my translation work though...
I think being logoraphic isn't necessarily an advantage over chữ quốc ngữ linguistically. It's true that chữ Nôm provided more context per word thus allowing info to be exchanged more efficiently and effectively. However, by needing more words/sentences to provide the full context, simple sentences in chữ quốc ngữ can be more easily turned into wordplays, puns, and double entendre even in written form. This imho makes our current language much more witty, colourful, and harder to master.
Take the example sentence of your video:
"Thân em như quả mít trên cây"
(I don't know anything about chữ Nôm so I trust your translation)
In chữ Nôm, the word "em" alone allows the reader to know that this is a feminine, first-person pronoun.
On the other hand, in chữ quốc ngữ, the sentence alone could be used by either a man/woman addressing themselves or a man/woman addressing another man/woman because "em" is not inherently gendered nor first-person.
I really like your videos about Vietnamese language, you did make videos about Chữ Nôm that even Vietnamese like me don’t know. I hope you can make more video like this 👍
Excellent video! I've actually been learning how to write Chữ Nôm and Classical Chinese in my spare time. Good to see you promoting Chữ Nôm. It's sad not a lot of people are able to read it anymore.
As someone who speaks three languages including Mandarin Chinese, I found this most interesting! Keep it out!
Chữ Nôm uses Chinese characters to write Vietnamese, while chữ Quốc Ngữ uses Latin characters to write Vietnamese.
Chữ Nôm is the adaptation of Chinese characters for written Vietnamese while chữ Quốc Ngữ is the adaptation of Latin alphabets for written Vietnamese. Since the 1920s, written Vietnamese had been written using chữ Quốc Ngữ . Chữ Nôm on the other hand is only studied in order to read Vietnamese texts written in Chữ Nôm. Chữ Nôm is not entirely in Chinese characters as some characters are actually Vietnamese ones due to the lack of Chinese equivalents. Chữ Nôm is actually still used by Vietnamese descended people known as Gin or Jing people in China. Their home islands of Wutou, Wanwei and Shanxin are ceded to China by the French after the Sino-French War in 1885. Their spoken language is a dialect or variant of Vietnamese and is mutual intelligible verbally with Vietnamese of Vietnam but not in written Vietnamese as Vietnam now only use chữ Quốc Ngữ while the Gin people retain the usage of Chữ Nôm.
@@MrLantean Gin people in China now all learn Quoc Ngu, no one actually uses Chu Nom there anymore.
@@conho4898 The Gin people may have now learn Quoc Ngu for written communication with Vietnam but they still use Chu Nom within their own communities.
@@MrLantean no, that is not true. Gin people in China use Chinese writing. It's kind of nonsense for them to use Chu Nom which is not used anywhere and existed for only a few years in history.
@@haniahannslew4108 The Gin people are bilingual in both Mandarin Chinese and their own variant of Vietnamese. They used Chữ Nôm for their written language and Chinese writing for Mandarin. For example, Middle Eastern Jews speak both Arabic and their own variants of Arabic known as Judeo-Arabic. They use Hebrew script for Judeo-Arabic while using Arabic script for Arabic. Chữ Nôm has been around for nearly 1000 years with the earliest example is found in an inscription on a stele at the Bảo Ân temple in Yên Lãng, Vĩnh Phúc province, dates from 1209 AD during the Ly Dynasty. Only the Gin people retain Chữ Nôm for their written Vietnamese language while in Vietnam, only the Quoc Ngu is used for written Vietnamese.
Nhức nhức cái đầu mình rồi, nhức vì khó kiểu và cũng vì học được kiến thức mới. Video hay tuyệt, thanks bạn
i love your videos so much!!!!
Learnt a lot through this video, even consider to study chữ Nôm in the future now, linguistics is just a fun field to explore to me.
One thing i want to be sure of tho, so the sound (the phonetic aspect) of Vietnamese has always been this way since chữ Nôm, right? As in we only change the way we write, not how we speak, so hypothetically, if a modern Vietnamese traveled back in time, he could still speak and be understood, just couldn't write?
Tôi thì nghĩ là có thể hiểu được nhưng chỉ % nào đó thôi vì hiện nay ngay cả tiếng địa phương của Việt Nam thì cũng rất khó hiểu rồi. Có người nhận xét tiếng Mường là tiếng gần nhất với tiếng Việt cổ lý do là người Kinh chính là người Mường tách ra sau quá trình pha tạp văn hoá vùng miền. Người Kinh thì xuống đồng bằng sống, còn người Mường thì sống trên núi. Quá trình phân tách dân tộc này kéo dài mấy thế kỷ. Ngày nay người ta vẫn xếp Tiếng Việt, tiếng Mường, và hai tiếng nói nữa của người dân tộc mình quên mất tên là cùng một hệ ngôn ngữ.
Quan trọng là bạn du hành ngược thời gian về thời nào, ngôn ngữ luôn biến đổi theo thời gian, nếu bạn quay trở về những thời xa xa như Đinh, Tiền Lê, Lý, Trần thì khéo người thời ấy còn chẳng hiểu bạn nói gì ấy chứ
Very informative, thank you very much. I’ve been very curious how Chữ Nôm different with Chinese. Ironically, now I am learning about the root of Vietnamese language via English, by Latin alphabets which are familiar by Chữ quốc ngữ, haha
@@ucchau173 Thanks for your info. Cheers!
insightful video ❤
Great video!! Keep it up
I thought you were Vietnamese at first, your pronunciation is quite impressive to me
As Chinese myself, this is so interesting, i want to learn more characters that is not in mandarin but looks really similar
i have tried it. Though I'm i VNmese but it's still hard (maybe harder than the Traditional Chinese script ._.)
Ignorance. Modern Mandarin still contain classical Chinese characters. It's just not commonly used nowadays.
omg im vietnamese and ur vid made me understand better ab chữ nôm tyy ur so underrated
This is such a cool video! I didn’t know any of this
Question: Do you happen to know if Khải Thư fonts that I can type every Chữ Nôm characters?
I've used both Han-Nom Kai and Hán-Nôm Khải but is there any other variant of Khải Thư fonts that I'm missing?
The one I used in the video is named: "Han-Nom Khai" I don't remember where I got it, but I think maybe this website? www.hannom-rcv.org/
Honestly the font I used was a little buggy, whenever I paste Chữ Nôm text it can't read, but if I paste individual characters than it can. It's weird
this video is 1000 times better than studying history in school
Ko, đó là do cách bạn học và cách dạy của gv
Didn't know chữ Nôm was that badass. Thanks for your info.
As a native Cantonese speaker, I deeply appreciate learning other languages. Keep making more videos!
Vietnamese is one of the hardest languages i ever tried to learn .but Chinese with its characters is harder if you only count reading and writing .but middle Vietnamese would be one of the hardest languages ever for me. apart from maybe some native american languages.
“middle Vietnamese” you mean central Vietnamese?
@@thatvietguyonline "Middle Vietnamese" ý nghĩa là tiếng Việt trung đại.
ua-cam.com/video/zOKrNHZFryw/v-deo.html
@@thatvietguyonline no i mean Vietnamese from the middle ages. like how middle English is very difference from modern English. i wanted to say old Vietnamese but i heard it had less tones. So it was easier.
I agree. You never get the Vietnamese tones correctly unless you keep practicing for over 10 years. Furthermore, there’re regional dialects in Vietnam which makes it difficult to speak the language. For instance, most foreigners learn the Hanoi dialect via text books and videos, but when they travel to Vinh, Hue, and Hoi An, they will understand nothing.
@@MinhNguyen-ff6xf Tbh local vietnamese from Hanoi and Saigon also feel the same regarding Vinh, Hue, and Hoi An, region
In Vietnam, we are a group trying to unify characters that have the same meaning so that they are unified. And grow widely among the public. Aim to restore Nom script in Vietnam.
Don't restore the Chữ Nôm. It is jerry-rigged Chinese. We have Vietnamese in Latin script and Chinese. No need to resurrect the intermediary. If the intermediary is gone, nothing is lost.
Thật sao
@@masaru2768 thật, họ đã tạo ra một bảng tiêu chuẩn hóa chữ Hán-Nôm
Phổ cập dùng song song với chữ quốc ngữ thì hay quá
@@masaru2768 cái đấy khó lắm, vì dân mình thời nay bài Tàu kinh lên đc, vả lại nhiều người họ cảm thấy không cần thiết phải học chữ Hán, chữ Nôm làm gì. Thôi, chờ khoảng 50 năm nữa khi nào mà chính phủ quan tâm phát triển đến văn hóa, lúc đấy xem thế nào bạn ạ
I learned something today, thanks !
Wow, i've never thought learning English will inform me about my OWN fucking language someday. I watched the whole video without the notice of the existence of the subtitle. Goodjob bro
At 5:45 I think you made a mistake. The 1000 years of Northern Domination ended in 938 with Ngo Quyen's victory on Bach Dang river. From then till 1407 (Ming Conquest), Viet Nam was independent and not under rule by China.
Another lovely video!
I have a curiosity about how the counter “quả” works. Is it similar to Chinese measure words? Like for example “one book” 一本书 with 本 being the measure word?
Yes, quả/trái is a measure word for fruits.
@@nomnaday neat! I don't see a number so i'm curious how to interpret it in this case.. Is the counter word alone similar to saying "A jackfruit" in english?
@@junupbox4911 Unlike Chinese, Vietnamese is a head-initial language. That means Proper nouns come after common nouns.
In this case, Chinese will say 菠萝蜜(果) but in Vietnamese you have to say 果菠萝蜜. Another example is 出生地, in Vietnamese we will say 地生出 instead haha
And of course in counting, "quả" is a classifier. You can not say " 1 mít", it must be "1 quả mít".
@@legendarywings8120 Thank you!
very good Vietnamese knowledge, I respect you 👍