with the queerbaiting thing - i've always found it so frustrating when people accuse real individual people of doing that, because the queer community is literally trying to STOP people from automatically assuming people are straight by default. we don't know their sexualities unless they've explicitly told us. if you immediately jump to queerbaiting you gotta ask yourself why you're assuming they're straight in the first place. some of this community is part of the problem i stg 😭
@@charlee4104 yeah, its so sad, he deserves sm better. Especially since he's just a teenager :(( Thats a prime example of the "straight until proven otherwise" mentality, it just harms people and puts them into uncomfortable (and potentially unsafe) situations
It’s frustrating as well because he literally isn’t straight. It’s so easy to find him discussing his own sexuality and saying explicitly he is not straight but he doesn’t wanna put a label onto it
@@charlee4104 I know it happened a lot for Dan and Phil as well. Hell, Ranboo used it to his advantage. He just kept making gay jokes until people started saying it was offensive to make those jokes when you’re straight. Only for them to pull the Uno reverse card of coming out as gay.
I was interested in Dream’s face reveal for like 5 minutes. I saw his face and then went “ok” and then went back into my normal routine. The fact that people were DRAGGING this man for looking at a average man was so strange. He plays Minecraft all day. Did y’all expect him to have a face that’s crafted from the Gods?
As part of the fandom, THANK YOU for calling out the toxic traits it has. You informed yourself well and I definitely would've love your takes even if I didn't even know who Dream was!
the thing i hate most about the dream fandom is that dream will do something really shitty and everyone on twitter will be like "i am no longer supporting dr*am" and then a week later theyll be back to posting "omg dream and george 🥺" and its the exact same thing over and over..
Literally dreams fandom and "hatedom" both really bother me. Both suffering with ignoring the fact that these minecraft youtubers are real life human beings whether they're idolising him or dragging him for his appearance. It doesn't help that dream has had his fair share of terrible responses which end up fueling the fire as well as make his fandom more toxic. I'm here for this burning bridges era tho
it's really a shame, he strikes me as someone who's naive about how much he actually influences people, and i always cringe a bit when he talks about how he appreciates the people who support him because despite his good intentions, i know that will only manifest poorly in some people's parasocial fantasies
honestly i agree. i do not like dream whatsoever but even i think the hatedom goes too far. i personally think he's done (and still does) some pretty questionable shit, but the way the "hatedom" drags him through the mud really doesn't help that at all 😭 he may not be an amazing human being, but he's a human being nonetheless
@@peachii3124 genuinely think the hatedom and standom fuel each other. the hatedom thinks the stans are cringe and stupid, the stans get defensive, and insult and make fun of the hatedom. the hatedom feels their point has been proven, and the cycle repeats. it leaves the silent majority of fans in the middle with their heads spinning just trying to watch a guy play a block game with his friends.
I mean, I'm part of the mcyt fandom, but that doesn't mean I can't see that they aren't flawless. Like, the entitlement and the paradocial relationship that most part of the fans have its really scary. I mean, outside of Dream, Wilbur Soot had to tell his fans that he doesn't like accounts that watch his Spotify activity, because the fact that they are thinking and speculating about his life outside o streaming make him uncomfortable. We also have the speculation about why Ranboo and Tubbo dont interact anymore. And going back to Dream, I remember one time that he didn't put his Spotify on private and a a bunch of sex song where playing and people went crazy, like, okay, a joke it's fine, but bro, it was to much. Same with the face reveal, a joke it's fine, saying that he looks like Prince Charming from Sherk it's kinda funny, but people where using a joke and being toxic and mean. Every fandom has toxic members y behavior (remember that one time a undertale fan gave a cookie with needles to an artist?), but the Dream fandom shine because they are so many and they have an almost bigger fandom of Dream haters, so they collide and are loud. Twitter is a place that gets really loud. also, just to say it, I'm sick of people saying that Dream queerbaits, real people can't queerbait. like. pls just stop
@sewer~rat I don't really think he is racist, like, maybe he made some racist coments before, but now with a fan base as diverse and big as the one he has I think it's really imposible for him to still being that way. Also, I think that a lot of the accusation of him being racist are kinda outdated and it's just people holding onto past mistakes to just hate him. Like, yeah, people doesn't own him forgiveness for hurtful stuff he did o may have done, but I'm sure there is a line between being stupid and being racist. And it's important to undertand that people change and can redem themselves. I don't have to forgive you, but I can acknowledge that you changed for good. sorry the English, it's my second language and sometimes sentences sounds weird xd
@@elifuz_ its also he had bigoted views when he was like 14/15 but he clearly doesn't now but because its dream people think he cant change for the better
as someone who has been a dream fan for like almost 3 years now I personally thought this video was really refreshing to see. usually people either demonize him as the root of all evil or act like he has never done anything wrong ever which is both absurd 🤷🏽♀ the guy isn't perfect and that's okay. he has his own flaws and so does his fandom just like anyone else. all in all i enjoyed seeing someones rational and reasonable view of the fandom as an outsider and i'd love to see a video on barbs next for the series :)
YES AGREE, i've been a fan for about a year and i have never been so stressed to just enjoy something before 😭 i keep off twitter because that's where i find the most apathetic, absurd and cruel comments from both stans and haters
@@dracuzura REAL PEOPLE CAN'T QUEERBAIT how many times do we have to tell people this shit, he was forced to come out because of people like you constantly spreading this narrative, and it's accusations like these that caused the kit connor situation. and for fuck's sake when will people let go of the shit he said when he was in his little sheltered floridian conservative neighbourhood, he has consistently apologized for the same comments over and over and over because people don't want to let it go, no matter how much he affirms that he disagrees with his past opinions. i dare you to give me a concrete example of him being racist/ableist from the past two years that isn't just conspiracy and bias. it frustrates me how narrow-minded people become when it comes to past actions and someone's character, i'm sick of this puritist moral high horse that people sit on as if they've never said something stupid in their lives.
Let me preface this by saying that I used to be a dream fan! I hate the hypocrisy of the dream fandom. If any other creator commits the minimal slight or wrongly worded statement, they'll get called out, there'll be multiple threads, fans will be called names, be blocked and blacklisted from the community, people will be added to blocklists and dni (do not interact) lists, but if dream does anything they'll bring up the document and say "I'll wait for his apology". I remember when he got called out about the triple k edit and so many (white) stans tweeted they "stand with the black community" but literally 30 minutes later dream started following random people and those same stans were already begging him to follow them. It's the hypocrisy that bothers me the most. Also, the dude got accused of allegedly gr○○ming two underage fans, one of them came out with plenty of evidence that himself admitted was real. Even with that most of his stans attacked the victim, started to spread lies about her, tried to poke holes in her story and evidence, and behaved in disgusting victim shaming behavior. In his addressing of the situation, Dream had the audacity of saying it's dangerous to feed into parasocial relationships, even though he's the poster boy of incentivizing it, he literally was selling his baby pictures and old emails to his most invested fans not too long ago. And by the way, he's back at it again sending messages to fans in snapchat, the app where the alleged gr••ming happened. And even if you don't believe it was gr**ming, a creator giving a fan his personal snapchat, an app where communications disappear over time, it's irresponsible at best, being potentially dangerous and creepy in the worst case scenario.
about dream grooming the underaged girls, the evidence wasnt hard evidence. in the screenshots she showed they were just talking normally, like a fan would to their ‘idol’. dream wasnt being inappropriate in those screenshots. we dont know the full story but i just wanted to say this. have a great day 🤗.
@@andreabuzzini2061 in one of the videos with his dms (that he confirmed are real) he replies "fine as hell" to a snapchat story of one the girls in a swimsuit... I personally don't think that's appropriate, a content creator messaging that type of thing to an underage fan, in his personal private snapchat. Have a nice day as well.
@@andreabuzzini2061 it’s still a power imbalance between a fan and creator. And considering the creator in question, he could do anything to them and silence them indefinitely until his pedestal gets knocked down to where the victims can come out and finally voice their experiences. It’s harder to come out against a guy with an entire army of emotionally invested minors/young adults who would die to defend him.
As a DSMP stan, I totally agree. The fandom has become an absolute shithole because of how some people in it act. It's been toxic since I joined about 2 years ago and it's gotten much worse after his face reveal because people don't have a sense of shame. People rely on that man for their well being a bit too much.
Bruhhhh main reason I'm scared to admit im a fan (idk bout stan, idk much about the story other then some Wilbur and Ranboo stuff) cause I'm scared the dark side of the fandom will make others think poorly of me. Which hurts cause I loveeee joy ranting about things im interested. People don't really see alot of fans and stans HATE a large chunk of the fandom.
The hate he got for his face reveal wasn’t within the fandom, at least not for the most part. It was people outside of the fandom and who already hated him beforehand. (There was a few bad eggs within the fandom, but they weren’t stans! This is coming from someone who is an active member of the fandom and was there when it happened :) )
How would you know they weren’t stans (at least at one point)? You as an active member have a bias, and some stans actually did switch up after the face reveal because Dream didn’t look the way they wanted. Twitter’s activity was high overall since there were people either: bashing, praising or neutral about him face revealing. Plus, it would be fair to say many people including me were there as well. /nm
@@DisregardThisAcc The fandom (people who supported Dream's face reveal) literally had to go on private, as in multiple people at the same time/day, because haters are actively interacting with hate about Dream's face. Dream had already warned us beforehand that everyone will be "in the trenches" when it happens, and hell it did. People created lists for those who switched up to inform the rest who remains to support Dream and unfollow or block those people. Yeah. A lot of that. This is just to give light to the struggle that is being overshadowed by the one-sided narrative that "the majority of Dream's fans sent him hate for not meeting their expectation" when we're literally hiding from all aggressive haters who seek out stan accounts just to harrass and make fun of us. :)
yea a lot of people are acting like his fans were mad with his face reveal bc they saw him as ugly but literally the majority of his fans were nothing but loving and supportive. i really hate how much the fandom is demonized and yes there are some disgusting people (ex. people who write smut about minors, who cross a cc’s boundary, who don’t treat them as people, etc) but there’s also a shit ton of talent within the fandom!! The fics, the fanart, the animatics, the music, there’s literally so much beauty within the fandom that a lot of people overlook. But honestly I feel like it’s a problem with a lot of mainstream fandoms where some people are toxic and suddenly people act like it’s a “cringe” thing to be a fan of (like voltron, bts, or even my hero academia all of whom at some point were basically the internets #1 enemy while also being the biggest fandom at the time).
ive always sort of watched the fandom from the outside but i'm so glad you addressed that dream never did grow out of his "edgy humor" and still makes a lot of bad takes and gets "forgiven" by his fans who were never affected in the first place. Like the r slur thing, yes he has ADHD but as someone with both ADHD and autism the word does have a lot of trauma for some people and he was so unwilling to listen to anyone trying to educate him and use his ADHD as an excuse to keep being disrespectful. Same can apply to his racist humor, his audience just enables him to never accept criticism from marginalized groups because he can pretend he's "one of us" and it sickens me but his fans eat that shit up and refuse to ever hold him accountable for making his audience an unsafe place for anyone who dare to point out that he's ignorant and privileged
i’m not really a dream fan however i do know that he has spoken to people talk about how he was disrespectful and he didn’t know and apologised for his behaviour and stoped i haven’t seen him use his adhd as an excuse idk maybe he did but idk and i’m pretty sure he doesn’t have racist humour he just tweeted smn on twitter that he didn’t know was racist however he did apologise so all in all i don’t really see why he gets hated on so bad-
i don’t understand though, none of that shit is recent? obviously that stuff isn’t justifiable, but to act as if he’s still the same bigoted asshole is a bit of a stretch. i’ve been following the guy for like two years and have yet to see any instance where he said bigoted things that aren’t the stuff from before he blew up. every time someone talks about his racism or ableism, it’s ALWAYS the same thing, and it’s ALWAYS the stuff from before he blew up, but they frame it as if it’s a pattern of continuous and ongoing behaviour.
@@thealmightybucket5930 "obviously that isnt justifiable" *proceeds to infantilize him and justify his actions* there are things that are as recent as about a month ago, him joking about things he should not be joking about, dream as someone who isnt jewish should not be the one to joke about supporting someone spewing anti-semitic rhetoric
This is a really great video with some good points! Another thing I think is something important to talk about is how “antis” (and this goes for other content creators too) have an unhealthy obsession with the people they hate. It’s on the same level as being a “stan”, but the obsession is negative instead of positive. Like.. i’ve seen a lot go out of their way to spend all their time digging up anything they can in hopes of deplatforming these creators, they argue constantly with the fans, they make fun of the creators 24/7, and they doxx & send death threats to these fans/creators (Mostly on Twitter-suprise, suprise). If people really hate someone, they shouldn’t give them any attention and should just move on. Negative attention is still attention. Even worse when it grows past the creators and begins to settle on the fans, who most of the time are just children enjoying content in their spare time.
yes the update account of Dream literally have to run blocklist because his anti are even more obsessed with him than us ??? it's really pathetic and scary
@@t0jil_art I actually recently read something about a situation somewhat similar to this where the original updates account (the one that deactivated-unofficial btw because apparently Dream had asked for the account, but they refused??) actually refused to do anything about the amount of antis flocking to their account. I found it really weird because they just let the antis harass the fans and keep up with everything Dream was doing. These antis had notifications on and would go out of their way to comment on every update, further proving my point that antis basically work with a stan mindset. It’s unhealthy for them & those around them who get caught in the crossfire. It’s good to hear that the new updates accounts are taking action against antis now! Im sorry that it’s come to that, though. People really do need to learn to avoid the things they dislike.
yeah one thing that really took me aback is when some people literally doxxed wilbur to pull up an old anti-semitic joke he made as a kid. like what was the point?? what was the reason?? he clearly does not hold those views anymore, so what was the point to drag up heartache through illegal means just to prove he's a bad person??
@@thealmightybucket5930 The thing is that people forget that back then, others grew up watching youtubers with terrible dark humor. As much as it sucks, it’s just the way things used to be, but thankfully content has matured & most creators know better now. A lot of these creators have grown up and changed by addressing their past and apologizing for it, so it’s kind of unfair when people keep bringing it up every time. I always roll my eyes when I see someone bringing up something from when the creator was a literal CHILD. Especially when they’ve already apologized for being edgy and dumb as a kid. (Though, it is fair for someone to still be uncomfortable and not accept the apology, but they should avoid the creator instead of becoming obsessed with trying to deplatform)
Sort of on topic.. the thing that sucks about the internet is that every mistake you make is caught and stored for later-like a library. If I brought up my brother’s mistakes during one of our monthly arguments, I’d be a pretty shitty sister. I know he has learnt and grown and I would never resort to bringing those things back up. It’s hurtful and dismissive to his progress.
as someone who has been in his fandom for a little over two years , this is probably the best video I've seen about his fandom . it's def very toxic and has , kinda only gotten worse lol this next part is probably gonna be a mess I'm trying my best- when it comes to the shipping stuff , a while back dream had a stream talking about boundaries and shit and also made a list that he posted to twitter (i think it was to twitter..?) saying he's okay with shipping as long as the other person is over 18 and also okay with it , as someone who has written / drawn dnf centric things i still think there are a lot of people who definitely take it too far to where it just gets weird. i feel there's no harm in making ship are or fics or whatever as long as it's not breaking boundaries , and maybe joking around here and there with like satire-like tweets or whatever , but there is definitely a point where it gets really fucking weird (not saying I'm completely innocent of this , I'm not I've made some stupid cringy ass tweets in the past about them 💀)(also this is coming from a dude who likes dudes i am a man liker just pointing that out) idk if that made sense again , i am not good at explaining things but yeah 👍 edit : also to add on to anyone who thinks he's a straight guy or something (i see a lot of people saying it everywhere i just thought I'd scream into the void about it really quick) because he hasn't come out as explicitly gay , he HAS come out , not as gay but he has explicitly said he is not straight so 👍 and another thing to add on that i forgot to say , i agree with the end of this video a lot , i think the fandom forgets that you can like someone's content and call them out on shit , and i also think they forget that people can be offended by shit people have done no matter how long ago it was anyway that was my closing thoughts I'm done that is the end of me yelling into the void tyty
Finally, a commentary UA-camr that made actual research while talking about him 🙌 and as someone who had seen lots of concerning things on both (love/hate) sides, I gotta add something. Tbf the only people I muted on twt after his face reveal were from people who didn't like him, 100% of stans *that I've seen* were calling him hot and changing his pfp to his face. Obviously, some stans were calling him ugly but it was just a part. As person who has been in multiple fandoms I'd say all of them are full of shit. But the worst part of it, some people don't even realize how toxic their fandoms are, even call them 100% non-toxic which is bs. Everyone can join fandom, no matter what are their traits. Non-toxic fandom is an oxymoron. Plus Dream is actually a bit into men, he was forced to come out as well 'cos people were calling him homophobic over "gay people don't exits" jokes 💀💀 Not to mention the mcyt and their fans are really young, I guess it'll calm down in few years. Undertale was like synonymous with bad fandom and I guess it's a bit better now. And for context I'm kinda dsmp fan but not a stan. I see their mistakes but I also think that some of their haters are crazy af. Plus yes, all of mcyt did some questionable things
Lived through this with 1D, Dan and Phil, O2L, 5SOS, AND more I’m probably forgetting about rn. I remember always thinking the fetishization of these people being gay was odd. I always said I would support any of them coming out (and I have) but people always take it too far. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve noticed it more and more (ex: when I began stanning BTS or listening to more Kpop). I’m in my mid-20s now: it’s super weird to care about someone else’s sexuality to the point that stans do. It’s a really unhealthy pattern of behavior in the fandom culture that keeps popping up. I feel like there needs to be psychological studies on this because I’ve seen it so many times since I joined fandoms 10 years ago.
We’re glad to have you back, Frederic. You look absolutely stunning. Keep up the good work on all your content. Best of luck and may God bless you always.
as someone who was a fan until the allegations and is still within the general fandom circle, thank you so much for making this video. calling out toxicity and problematic behaviours both that he and fans do gets so quickly shut down by the fandom, yet it’s so important to recognise the major issues so things can change. i hope other fans respect this video and every point you’ve made, as some positive change could come from this
what you said about holding people accountable reminded me of when the news about rex orange county being charged on 6 counts of SA came out and i was literally devastated. his music has helped me when i’ve been in a bad place so it just sucks ass to know that someone who’s made a difference in your life is such a horrific person. but it’s like i know i can’t just keep loving his music the same due to his actions. tough thing to think about
gotta tread gently, if you say you love or hate him, you'll get doxx threats from children who don't know the implications of what they're doing and might actually go through with it
As someone who fell down the rabbit hole of fandom ships I 100% agree with you. Having seen some of the insane and disgusting shit people say and write about real human beings it’s so clear that a lot of “fans” don’t actually care the content and just dissect it to fit a weird narrative rather than enjoy it for what it is.
as someone who watches some of the people that were/are on the dsmp I think the worst thing about the "Dream team" side of the fandom is that they themselves do not care about their fans being creeps and actively avoid calling them out for some reason, even when people try and get these problems to their attention. Even his friends/other people on the server have talked about how it is very notorious why the majority of the weird people are specifically fans of the dream team and dislike the other creators who actually put them in their place and set boundaries... but again, they have a lot of times acted just as immature as their fans and caused problems for other creators, they are not responsible enough for the size of their audience whatsoever and their egos are way to big for their own good, creator attracts audience
One of my irl fans, a dream fan, also hates dream fans Also the whole “ugly” thing just harkens back to the invisible man of hotel Transylvania. I’ll leave it at that
minecraft live was on birthday last year and i wanted the glare once i found out it was him who wanted that useless squid 😡😡😡😡😡😡😭😭😭😭 I hate that racist white boy
As someone on the older side of stan twitter, I understand where you're coming from with a lot of your points. Very well put together video. One thing that I would like to add abt why ppl have made this google doc, is bc periodicly leaktwt would dig into Dream's past (stuff he himself had already deleted from his channel long before he blew up, or, right when he was blowing up in 2020 when his fanbase started calling him out for stuff trying to hold him accountable and educate him, he's a florida man after all) and leak it to try to "cancel" him. People got tired of explaning the same things over and over again (made worse by "drama channels" on youtube spreading false info cause they were too lazy to do research, not you, your video is great). And honestly, ppl don't try to deny things that dream has done, cause dream himself has admitted to it, the thing ppl usually point out is the fact that most things that keep coming out are years old; before he had a fanbase who held him accountable and tried to educate him on things. The doc is mostly for people to find context and apologies (which there are A LOT of, bc unlike most CCs, he doesn't ignore stuff). The biggest example for me (of dream's behaviour and fandom being different), which is kind of ironic considering some remarks from your video, is Markiplier's KKK skit which is still up and monetized on his channel. No youtuber is skeaky clean, bc we live in a bigoted world. Dream is no diffrent, specially considering his age and enviroment growing up. I think the main thing ppl should look if for change, or at least being open to it, not afraid to address things, and it's all I've ever seen him do, bc his fanbase doesn't let stuff get sweeped under the rug until he addresses it. But if you say that with more than 2 sentences and actually look into the controversies and apologies, you get called a dickrider (or you get doxed..but hey that's another conversation for another time).
I don't know if I agree about the part where you say that the fandom holds Dream accountable. All I ever see is others pointing out something Dream did, and then he posts something like "love you guys💕" and then the comments are full of people saying that they forgive him, no matter what. I don't disagree that there probably are fans that do hold him accountable but I haven't really seen a lot of that on Twitter
@@unitlonda4925 If you think dream only tweets "love you guys" as responses to serious topics when people are educating him, IDK what to tell you. And this is exactly why people made that freaking google docs with all of his responses to each situation in the first place, bc of this narative that dream doesn't address things, or that his fandom doesn't hold him accountable.
@@secretyidentity2833 I've also seen him call someone a sensitive snowflake when someone tried to educate him that saying the r slur probably wasn't a good idea and how it can be hurtful to a lot of people. I don't know, every apology I've seen of his sounded very empty to me. And he absolutely has tweeted "love you guys" a few days after a controversy so many times. It simply is a fact that his stans are quick to "accept his apology" and forgive him when it wasn't really their place to begin with because they weren't part of the harmed group
@@unitlonda4925 You can say they felt empty, but you can't say he doesn't addresss it and just tweets love you guys, and his fans ignore it. He does address it, and it's always up to said community to acept his apology. Most of the things brought up (like the r word), were from 2020 (or prior), which is the year he really blew up, and was exposed to all corner of the internet and people of all walks of life, many tried educating him on some things he was doing/saying/defending during that time, and his responses weren't the best (as you would expect from a 20-21 home schooled gamer in the state of Florida who gained millions of subscribes in a few months). Over time he started to change, and become more open to hearing what people told him was offensive and why. and again, speaking as someone who is inside the twitter discourse. There is always an active effort from fans to focus on the marginalized groups affected, meaning, uplifting their voices. ua-cam.com/video/jXNuknXF2rE/v-deo.html (dream talking abt the r word and changing his opinnions once people started educating him on subjects)
I agree with most of what you said in the video, I love your content and I could tell you did some research before this. The only thing I'm gonna say is that most people who were disappointed with his looks on twitter, tiktok etc... were actually just people who tagged along for the face reveal and not long time fans because as you said it was very hyped. I saw a bunch of fans of his post a lot of nice stuff about how he looks and hyping him up for his courage. I'm not a dream stan and never was but I do consider myself as someone who enjoys his and (especially) his friends' content. It was terrible how he was treated by the people on the internet (especially twitter) and they definitely crossed the line between "haha funny meme, he does kinda look like that one guy" and "this is not okay this is bullying".
yes I don't really understand how ppl changed the fact that it was regular ppl and his anti that literally made a whole hashtag to hate on his look it was definitely not the fans cause we even put the rules to not interact negatively with the face reveal and even just not interact with anti at all
Dream has said he's not straight, and that he's not rlly sure what his sexuality is! He's stated he's scared to label himself in case his sexuality changes and people will hate him. Telling
As a current Dsmp fan, I never liked dream. I'm a bigger fan of Ranboo, aimsey, Tubbo, Tommy etc. The thing I don't like about him is he absolutely sucks at setting boundaries with his fans. He kinda just lets them run wild, which isn't ok. For example, there was a person who wore a nsfw dnf shirt to the twitchcon panel(which is a terrible thing to do like wtf), and dream just laughed it off like it was ok. He really needs to tell people what's ok and what's not, because there are young kids in his "fandom" that could start thinking this type of behavior is ok and that causes lots of problems. I'm not saying it's his fault for them being crazy, I'm saying he needs to let them know what's okay and what's not because leaving them to go crazy without repercussions isn't good for anyone. I was blown away by how objectively correct this video was thanks Frederic
honestly i see your point, but what else was he supposed to do? make the situation awkward by calling the person out? it was his first public appearance, i doubt he wasn’t filled with extreme anxiety and just trying to get through the panel. besides, i can attest that the man has TRIED time and time and time again, and made several public statements about how he does NOT support any kind of doxxing, harassment or hate on his behalf, but that’s just the thing, the people who want to do those things are going to do them anyway. at this point, it’s already too far gone for his words and actions to have any meaningful effect. now it’s just a hindsight thing, and probably some more anxiety for him now that he’s face revealed
Thank you for explaining this situation. I don't have twitter or tiktok but I do have the comfort of pinterest. Pinterest doesn't explain anything like a UA-cam video would though. On pinterest there have been some memes that I saw and I was immensely confused why anyone cared to call him ugly. It was one bad angle (which makes sense he is not use to it) and an average face. It's bullying to go after something that somebody can't control. I don't care for dream but if you want to point out meaningful things maybe point out the actions of a creator instead of a face. A face isn't harming anyone but the actions and words that someone does can cause damage. Also I must concur with Fredrick that he is looks stunning in his videos with makeup and outfits.
At 9:40, this happens a lot in the kpop community too. Same-sex "secret crushes". There are many videos about it and even fanfictions about it. I would always feel bad when it happens and it can get awkward
great video! one thing tho, as someone deep in the fandom i personally didnt see any of his fans (not saying there werent any) talk bad about his looks. Everyone was actually simping for him XD. most of the people that did talk badly were, well, the antis.
istg some people are just a little to obsessed with a man playing minecraft. like actually kind of inappropriately obsessed with him. and then the moment he shows his face they bully him
hi frederic!! it's been a thing for antis to always compare shipping dream and george to dan and phil, septiplier etc but dream and george are okay with shipping. they don't care about it! they also don't care about sexualisation (as long as it isn't minors doing it) also the fact that antis think dream is queerbaiting when doing this when he's an actual queer man himself
isnt that kinda weird that they're,,,ok with the sexualization? Thats not normal, even if theyre comfortble with shipping, straight up sexualizing them is overboard whether theyre ok with it or not. Personally myself I dont think people should allow shipping because its shown how bad it can get and honestly,,its weird! Theyre real people. Unless they specified you could ship the characters they PLAY, you shouldnt ship real people (Coming from someone who used to ship septiplier and it wasnt good0
@@phia3880 how am I speaking for them exactly? I just said its weird and not normal the fact they said sexualizing them was ok & how you shouldn't ship real life people,,,,idc if they're grown men or if they said theyre ok with it, its weird n you shouldn't do it. People have drawn some disgusting things way past youtubers boundries.🥶
@@phia3880 also im fully aware they can make their own decisions but that doesnt mean its still not weird, normally people dont go around telling their fanbase of millions of strangers sexualizing them (which are 2 people those millions dont even know) is ok,,,,Once again unless they specified that you can do that with their INGAME characters I wouldnt care so much but that doesnt seem to be the case
as a dream stan i clicked so fast- our fandom be toxic ngl, a whole lotta people came running back for the face-reveal, we were just starting to heal! but alas we win some, we lose some (close chats on streams)
Hello, how are you doing? I've never been so early. I love your videos, and thank you for being so encouraging when it comes to college and accepting yourself. :)
Fantastic video bestie✨ This sort of thing is honestly so common on UA-cam. I think people like to treat UA-camrs similar to their fictional comfort characters, so they're kind of pressured to fit into this character that their fanbase created them to be. It'll be a cold day in hell when I defend Dream for his actions lmao but I can see how it can be a little stressful sometimes. Just remember the people you stan are regular folks like you and not anime characters lol
exactly, i still keep up with the man but you will never catch me defending his old racist comments when he was a kid, nor his impulsive and immature behaviour following the speedrun scandal.
@@thealmightybucket5930 No literally same. It's so annoying he gets away with so much cuz of cute white boy syndrome. And being eDgY is such a middle school thing lmao so many people haven't grown out of it cuz making offensive comments means you're "cool" and "unfiltered" like sis please we can all tell you just want people to think you're cool
@@seeegaaaa yeah, i feel like i understand dream a little with his edgy behaviour when he was younger because i was also that kid, growing up in a bigoted environment and doing and saying the things i thought would impress the people around me. as soon as i was exposed to more perspectives though, that shit changed so fast. and i feel like it’s the same with him, i have not seen him make a singular bigoted comment since like early 2020 when he was still relatively small, and the man has repeatedly apologized and denounced his behaviour. at this point there’s not really anything left to say tbh.
as someone who’s been a “stan” for 2 years now, i completely agree, the embarrassing half of this fandom is why i don’t tell ppl i like the dream smp unless we’re rlly close.
I'm looking forward to future episodes of this series! Learning more about fandoms is always very interesting to me, even if I'm not part of them or know nothing about the thing they're a fan of.
I am a kpop fan, and i would love for you to talk about the stans or sasengs!! Many youtubers have already done it, but i feel like it cannot be talked enough about. It is so horrible if you take deep dive into just kpop by itself.
On a side note being a Swiftie and a kpop fan I'd actually enjoy the roasting videos. First I'm a baby Swiftie and Istg I've already seen the toxic bits, like there was a post on Twitter about Rihanna releasing new music for the first time in like 6 years (personally I didn't really care but I was "oh good for her ig") this was during the Midnights release and Istg the thread was full of swifties saying "we don't care" "it'll flop" "could never outsell taylor" and I was like "woah guys literally has nothing to do with her" Kpop. Ik you aren't in the fandom so let me tell you. I've been in kpop since I was young so I defo was apart of the toxic dumb stuff way back in the day but I wouldn't say the really bad stuff, but I defo got in a few dumb yt comment fights. Anyways after being in it for 6 years I can't be bothered anymore and I just listen for Music now. -There was a thing where people were editing fancams with gore -Bodyshaming is so relevant in this community it's ridiculous -Minors are constantly sexualised -You can't call out anyone without getting hated on (e.g. everyone calling the Art Director of a rookie girl group called NewJeans that has very young members because she had used lolita inspirations for young girls, had been seen with photos of underage girls, had given them a song called Cookie which is very sexual. People called her out and delusional NewJeans fans said that they were hating on the group. Btw the you gest member is 14. -Racism (that's all I'll say) -Fans being delusional as istg they'll defend anything, I was kinda siding with people who were annoyed that BLACKPINK wouldn't sing live at a concert so those people wanted their money back. People defended it by saying "do you really expect them to sing all that time?" I mean yeah it's a concert -NMIXX Jiwoo was 16 and got fatshamed by everyone istg -Garam bullying thing was ridiculous, she was 16 and some allegations that she used to bully people in school cane up and she ended up getting kicked out of her group. It's weird because 2 years previous we had the AOA bullying scandal in which Jimin was accused of bullying her member Mina and over time people found out that Jimin had been framed and Mina was actually at fault here. Everyone then said "we shouldn't believe so blindly guys" then they cancelled a 16 year old easily because she had no fandom yet, also after getting kicked out it's come to light that she may be innocent -Double Standards, istg male idols could be so bored and blank faced and people will swoon over him but if Female idols do it they're rude. -Streaming culture, I have been shamed for not streaming before and I seriously don't get it -You can say "Oh I don't really listen to Seventeen" and get DRAGGED. Really any group Seventeen were an example, like I never said anything bad I just listen to like 2 of their songs that's it. -Boy Group stans vs Girl Group stans -Shipping Culture is gross, people will ship 2 idols so much then get so pissed when they're actually dating someone. -People are so unfiltered istg someone could tweet "my dad died today" and someone will reply with "Well if only he stanned loona" -People not realising that idols are people and that they're just going to work and not every group has to be best friends (e.g. Brown Eyed Girls, the members consider each other more like coworkers than friends) Anyway I kinda want them to be dragged. Also maybe you could tall about the Kdrama fandom I mean it's not as bad as the Kpop fandom but kdramas defo do romanticise abusive relationships.
I definitely think Dream has done some shitty things before; however, I am not involved enough to have a solid opinion beyond that. I HAVE been around Dream stans though, and so many of them are just. Yikes
i am pretty involved and my opinion of him is similar to hasan piker's if you know him. he's done shitty and stupid things, but there's a difference between fucking up and having flaws than being the actual anti-christ. people seem to forget that.
@@thealmightybucket5930 I think you described my thoughts on him well. As someone who tries not to involve themselves with MCYT, I try not to speak on those matters too often, but frankly it was very discomforting to watch so many people just absolutely berate this one guy and then say “you shouldn’t feel bad, he is bad!!1!1!”
@@sterliingsilver9592 I KNOW! every time i go through threads like that i just lose hope in humanity. being popular seems to almost remove the human aspect of the person and it frankly disturbing whenever i see people outwardly saying and getting praise for wanting dream or someone else to die or be subjugated to just awful things
Gahh, im so scared of watching this video. I completely love you, and I interact a lot with dream fans, and him, because I like a lot his friends and stuff. I know the fandom can be bad a lot of the time, but there is also a TON if misunderstanding - where people think the people who dislike dream are the fans. I’ve seen 0 fans shitting on his face. It is what is known in the fandom as ‘antis’, where people who dislike dream use SO MUCH if their time on him that from the outside, they look like fans, but they really aren’t. That being said, some people ARE mean assholes, and actually terrible people.
+ I really don’t want to come off as an unthhinkung blindly supporting dream fan, bc I really hate lots of the things he has (allegedly) done, it’s just super hard avoiding him in my twitter ‘social circle’ and interests
I think one of the reasons women love gay love stories so much is because queer men tend to not exhibit toxic masculinity as much as cishet men. There are several other reasons but that's one of them. imo we shouldn't shame girls for shipping fictional male characters, but for the love of god do not ship real people i am begging
On some days I am just insanely happy that I never had and never will have Twitter and spend all my time on Instagram talking to other literature nerds about books... 😂 I am so far removed from all of this. Thank God
as a kpop stan i need you to roast kpop stans bc we're all either dumb as shit or ignorant and we're all biased that combo makes being a kpop stan hell i also need you to call out the miraculous fandom bc i know you'll word it better than me when you talk about the sexualization of characters who are minors (i've seen too much nsfw fan art of cat noir and i honestly wanted to throw up bc he's 14)
the thing about dream is that he has the same amount as fans, as he has from haters and theyre always fighting, or babying him, or exaggerating every bad thing he ever did or really just lying in hopes to get him out of the internet, so in the middle of all of this you also have people trying to treat every single criticism against him like is just "neg" or false its a mess really
Are you a personal stylist or designer? Your outfits are always so put together. Your makeup and earrings are so pretty and compliment the top. I'm impressed. I like the cut of your jib, kid.
20:22 exactly why I (personally) am over the stuff he did. i’m NEVER defending him with that, as a black person that doesn’t really watch him. i’m over the Markiplier video from like 7 years ago bc he stopped. if someone has grown, there’s not much for me to say. where I grew up so many ppl had a toxic mindset as little kids but they grew up and got educated, but i PERSONALLY don’t care who watches cz we all have our own opinions 🤷🏽♀️
I mean I know it's random and different from Frederic's kind of commentary topics but I'd really like to hear him talk about the gacha fandom ngl also I'm pretty sure he doesn't do this anymore but I just thought of a new nickname: French fries
@@thealmightybucket5930 The whole community is toxic, to the point where if anyone hears about the fandom, they immediately think about how f*cking crazy it is... It even beats mha!
@@Im_Iconic-Youre_Ironic to say an entire community is toxic and bad is widely one dimensional. i’m sitting here, telling you, as someone who has been in the fandom for over a year and a half, that there are good aspects lmao. i know twitter and tiktok suck, and i know there are really immature and irresponsible children who love to doxx people who don’t like their favs, but to say that that’s everyone is insane. you only hear about the bad parts because they’re the loudest.
I’m a bit late, but I would love to see a video about the K-pop fandom (which I am a part of), because I’ve seen a lot of gay fetishizing. And ppl hating on specific idols to make their favorite seem better.
I'm not really in the MC youtubers/streamers community, but so much of the shipping in it really reminds me of the Septiplier and Phan days and the whole 'shipping real people on the internet' thing just seems to keep repeating itself in the same way. It's honestly quite creepy and obsessive and can literally ruin the friendships that creators have. And all that is coming from someone who was kinda into the aforementioned ships, I too was once 14 lol
as someone who enjoys dreams and his friends content (sometimes 😂) i personally totally agree with this video. I hate saying that i like his content because people think i’m a part of the community/ fandom. i personally think majority of the fandom is very very toxic. They say they respect these people then they make fun of them and are just plain mean. thank you for posting this, unlike most videos it points out that the majority of the fandom is toxic not the creators themselves (i’m not saying the creators haven’t done things that aren’t toxic/ problematic because they definitely are i just think the fandom is way more toxic than the creators) i hope you guys have a nice day/ night :)
litterally everything you say in this video i agree with!!! dreams community got a little out of hand but hes handeling it well. also i really hate what happened to kit .. ppl are weird.
You're definitely right and the fandom is partially pretty toxic, it's also mostly children. Sorry if i come of as defensive but I kind of also am, I try not to be but dream has definitely helped me a lot and so did the fandom. I'm a dream ''stan'' myself, started watching him back in 2020 and I've been a fan without even caring about what he looks like, he doesn't have to share anhtging about his private live his content is great (in my opinion ofc). For the controversies he did talk about them a lot on twitter and twitch (i don't really know what was going on at that time). He also knew he'd get shit on for his face reveal, it was just expected from the haters that often get seen as part of his fans idk why tbh. And about the queerbating: he's said that he isn't straight and doesn't wanna lable himself/ doesn't really know hwat he falls under. I can't say my opinion is compleatly objective since that man has really created a safe space for me and thousands of other people with his smp and just the fandom he created (I straight up ignore the haters and toxic fans) and I do think it's funny shipping people ofc but I do only ship their characters not them bc I think it's weird and I don't wanna do anything that could make them uncomfortable (anyone really). Ofc dream's done some stuff, the grooming alligations, I don't believe them cuz most things really don't add up but I also don't hate on the person who made them, I try to do something good for my mental health and not get into it too much. If they turned out to be true I'd definetly reconsider. Also please if I made typos or any mistakes (grammar & spelling) just ignore them, english isn't my first language.
Even if you are a stan, don't disregard the grooming allegations. It's fine to not have an opinion bcs no one will know the outcome, but given the victim is currently building a case against him it's best to not assume.
@@Doris-gf4hb, which girl? cause if you're talking about Amanda, then there's a reason why a lot of fans aren't immediately on her side. personally, i'm neutral in this situation, but at first i of course believed the victim. but then she started changing her story, her age (as first she was 17, then 30, or something like that), she's involved with leaktwt (doxxing and stuff similar to that), her boyfriend is an anti, i'm pretty sure her evidence she presented to twitter was proven true (messages related wise) but the texts didn't show anything inappropriate, just normal banter, etc. for now, i'm still believing amanda since she is a victim, but for now, she's really blowing it. i think there were two girls btw, but i can be wrong, since i don't know the other girl's name. but yeah, amanda herself is a bit suspicious, and there's one more situation that's made me believe her even less, but if you want i can make another comment about it? this comment is long enough. (hopefully you're talking about the recent grooming allegation(s) because if not then i just took too much time writing this 😅)
12:19 oh damn i was just gonna comment that- it's actually so sad amd baffling to see that our own community that knows the fear of being outed or not knowing one's sexuality thinks they're entitled to a celebrity/public figure's??? it makes no sense.
as a dream fan for over 2 years this was really refreshing to watch. a few things i wanted to add tho, the main reason he face revealed was bc he wanted to shift his content to irl vlogs w his friends (like now that george is in florida they could begin filming videos together) and thats not possible if he didn't show his face. also the queerbaiting thing makes no sense to me bc dream has said hes on the spectrum (at first he came out as unlabeled and im not sure what he is now). youre so right about the controversies part tho i feel like a decent amount was blown out of proportion from bandwagon hate but there are some with truth in them. i left the fandom a few months ago bc i got sick of the immaturity in both the fans and dream's responses to many of the allegations
Damn, all I can say about dream stans (specifically smiletwt) is that they harassed my friends for liking certain youtubers (and I saw other people getting doxxed for the same reason). So Dream saying that "we're just overreacting " about doxxing, when his toxic fandom is known for exactly that still is so bonkers to me.
Being there for the whole Dan and Phil thing at like 11 traumatized me so when I started watching Dream Team content and realized what was going on there I had war flashbacks
i’d honestly love to hear your take on pewdiepie, especially with his current content!! as someone who used to be a fan, admittedly defended him during that wall street journal thing, fell off being a fan after he said the n word, and have been slowly coming back to his japan vlogs, its been interesting to see how people react to him/think of him nowadays.
Ok as someone in this fandom I do agree with lots of your opinions on this and in my opinion I really don't care about how a creator looks as long as they're a good person
Hey, someone had to say it (one of the main reasons I stayed away from watching Dream is his fandom scared me besides my friends who are chill). Also, I’ll admit I took part in the jokes for a day or two, but not publicly, just as an inside joke with friends (both fans and not) and we didn’t take it far at all, we had no expectations for what he looked like and we didn’t say he was ugly, we just compared him to (mostly fictional) people (which I do to everyone whether I like him or not). I’m not a fan of him because I’ve heard of some problematic stuff he’s done, but calling someone physically ugly, especially publicly for everyone to see, is wrong. Dream is just some guy in the end, everyone looks differently, why does it actually matter? Also, shipping people irl is not the vibe at all, it’s just uncomfortable for everyone. Fictional characters, different story (as long as it’s not something like shipping an adult with a child because EW) because it’s not gonna have an affect on actual human beings in this world.
i'm not on twitter, but don't worry i'm still struggling with my mental health you aren't missing anything ... also i'd love to say i'm gay ( bi : girls & non binaries) but you do look amazing!
Thank you. I am still in the fandom and I’ve seen the shit that the people in this fandom do. And personally I’m more of like a cricket crew fan then a dream fan but i do enjoy his content. And the way people in this fandom and the people outside of the fandom treat him and other yt and streamers in the fandom is so disappointing and disgusting. And the way that they treated Dream when he came out was so sad. The people on Twitter are so fucking horrible, and have nothing to do with their lives the bully people. Like my whole class knows that i enjoy the dsmp and they always shit on him and make fun of him like cyber bullying is actually funny. And then they brought up techno and though it was funny to make fun of him. And that’s really where I draw the fucking line, that’s not funny, having stage 4 cancer is not funny. People need to fucking grow up and learn that feelings are real. And I’m so sorry for any other faceless UA-camrs, bc the fact that they are hiding their face usually means they are insecure about it, and then seeing Dream get shit on it must make them feel so much worse. So I feel so bad for any faceless UA-camrs. Like actually people need to respect others. Alr that’s my rant for today bc the way people reacted to this really pissed me off that people can be like that. Okay if someone is reading this have a good day, get off Twitter and go listen to some music.
I used to be really into the dsmp cuz I just liked the lore and I like some of the youtubers that were in it. When i saw what dream looked like my only thought was "ok" then moved on with my life. My friend started to roast him, so I told her that "we live in Florida, who are you seeing that looks pretty standing next to him?" Edit: PLEASE DO KPOP NEXT! As a kpop fan (don't really know if I can call myself that cuz I really only listen to Stray Kids) I have seen my fair share of toxicity within the fandom, and that toxicity alone is the reason why it took me YEARS to finally listen to the music. Also, the shipping is really weird, and it just seems to be on a different level than "normal shipping".
I've been an active fan of Dream's for two years, and this video makes a lot of good points. There's lots to discuss, but overall I'd like to say one thing. Any rational member of this community will tell you that Dream is not perfect. He has absolutely said and done things that are offensive and controversial. So why would one continue to support him? To me, I believe that Dream has actively grown and changed as a person. He's apologized, recognized that he was wrong, and hasn't done those things since (you can of course choose to not forgive him, that's just me). Lots of his controversies are genuinely bogus, like the queerbating thing. People really use that against him to prove he's the spawn of satan or something. I say this to mean that yes, people do have genuine reasons to dislike him and the fandom, however, there are definitely those who hate him just to hate him, and go so far as to send fans death threats just for being a fan. I appreciate that Frederic takes a more neutral approach, and took the time to research him and the community, both for the good and the bad. It's important to discuss the negative impacts a fandom can have.
I think because people drew him with a specific art style people assumed that's what he looked like (because it was all they had ro fo off of) which didn't meet their expectations because it is humanly impossible to look like an anime cartoon character
People say that every fandom has it's toxicity, but the Dream fandom is a whole 'nother level. Honestly, I'm glad I left the DSMP fandom. Edit: Also when I saw Dream's face reveal, I thought he looked okay. Like, he wasn't super ugly or super attractive. Just right in the middle.
20:20 The Dream Controversy stuff kinda reminds me of the Markiplier fandom giving him shit NOW because he spoke on Pewdiepie's behavior 7 years ago. Or i guess even more relatable would be the people who went and basically forced Lindsey Ellis off of youtube. She has a video on her channel still public about the BS she's tackled with the people who document her every move throughout her entire career. She's changed, she's apologized, she's tried to move on but people can't let that shit go for some reason. We really need to learn to leave the past in the past. Unless it's something truly and horrifically bad like the secret resurrection of Adolf Hitler, One's past should not define their present or their future.
I had never heard of this man until that entire week of my FYP just being people hyping up his face reveal, and honestly I was so sick of it that by the time it happened I was laughing at their disappointment because like what were you expecting for a Minecraft UA-camr, and he isn't even ugly
The last half of this video reminds me of The Walking Dead fandom, specifically the Daryl Dixon section. There was a gay character Jesus and the actors used to get swarmed with tags, questions, etc about making Daryl gay. As far as the actor has reviewed, Norman presents as straight (has a child and is engaged to a women). The show runners had to address it multiple times and after a few episodes stopped putting the actors together in scenes (from what I remember of the show). I’d also like to add this fandom is largely adults and NOT a Teeny bopper fandom like you would see with a CW show or something. That adds an extra layer of gross and “should kno better” to it.
dream doing a face reveal probably scared all the faceless UA-camrs to never want to fave reveal because holy shit 💀
I saw my little cousin cry after seeing dreams face reveal and ran to me calling him scary 💀
@@Sirdigglywumps noooo 💀💀💀
@@Sirdigglywumps oh my gosh 😂😭
Ranboo for example admitted he was probably never going to face reveal after dream did 💀
@@Sirdigglywumps I-
with the queerbaiting thing - i've always found it so frustrating when people accuse real individual people of doing that, because the queer community is literally trying to STOP people from automatically assuming people are straight by default. we don't know their sexualities unless they've explicitly told us. if you immediately jump to queerbaiting you gotta ask yourself why you're assuming they're straight in the first place. some of this community is part of the problem i stg 😭
Completely agree. Same thing happened with Kit Connor. He was forced to come out bc ppl accused him of queerbaiting :(
@@charlee4104 yeah, its so sad, he deserves sm better. Especially since he's just a teenager :((
Thats a prime example of the "straight until proven otherwise" mentality, it just harms people and puts them into uncomfortable (and potentially unsafe) situations
It’s frustrating as well because he literally isn’t straight. It’s so easy to find him discussing his own sexuality and saying explicitly he is not straight but he doesn’t wanna put a label onto it
@@charlee4104 I know it happened a lot for Dan and Phil as well.
Hell, Ranboo used it to his advantage. He just kept making gay jokes until people started saying it was offensive to make those jokes when you’re straight.
Only for them to pull the Uno reverse card of coming out as gay.
@NitroFairyWing
Exactly Lmfao, people who ship real people together, yall need a life.
Maybe he's Dream, but his fandom is definitely a bit of a nightmare
omg that’s an amazing title
@@FredericChen it's the rest of the content creation process that's the problem for me, lol
This kinda reminds me of Kirby characters.
he isn't even dream, he's sum white boy named clay
@@twiggledowntown3564 lmfao accurate
as an ex-dsmp stan, as soon as i saw the title i knew fredric was coming out with a lot of correct opinions
same
vouch
This
SAME ex dsmp fans are literally the best
Frederic* and ty
I was interested in Dream’s face reveal for like 5 minutes. I saw his face and then went “ok” and then went back into my normal routine. The fact that people were DRAGGING this man for looking at a average man was so strange. He plays Minecraft all day. Did y’all expect him to have a face that’s crafted from the Gods?
Literally
hehe, crafted
Fr tho
Same
just when i thought it wasn’t possible to love Frederic even more he starts coming out with the best opinions
Frederic*
@@FredericChen omg it’s the way i’ve been thinking i’ve been spelling it right !!!
@@izzz222 real !!
@@FredericChen they spelt it right 😭🤪
Unless I missed something I’m so tiredd
As part of the fandom, THANK YOU for calling out the toxic traits it has. You informed yourself well and I definitely would've love your takes even if I didn't even know who Dream was!
Completely agree I honestly don’t even take part in interacting w the community cuz it’s so toxic
@@shay612 same it really sucks and they like to make fun of the nice people it’s annoying so i stopped interacting with them
its really sad because there are some really cool and kind people in the community, but they get overshadowed by the crazy stans.
IKR this is why i dont have a twitter, i just want to enjoy something and then there's always those who take it way too fucking far
Yuck
the thing i hate most about the dream fandom is that dream will do something really shitty and everyone on twitter will be like "i am no longer supporting dr*am" and then a week later theyll be back to posting "omg dream and george 🥺" and its the exact same thing over and over..
no fr...
Literally dreams fandom and "hatedom" both really bother me. Both suffering with ignoring the fact that these minecraft youtubers are real life human beings whether they're idolising him or dragging him for his appearance. It doesn't help that dream has had his fair share of terrible responses which end up fueling the fire as well as make his fandom more toxic. I'm here for this burning bridges era tho
it's really a shame, he strikes me as someone who's naive about how much he actually influences people, and i always cringe a bit when he talks about how he appreciates the people who support him because despite his good intentions, i know that will only manifest poorly in some people's parasocial fantasies
i hate dream, but i dont understand why people like make fun of how he looks. he just looks like a random guy lmao
honestly i agree. i do not like dream whatsoever but even i think the hatedom goes too far. i personally think he's done (and still does) some pretty questionable shit, but the way the "hatedom" drags him through the mud really doesn't help that at all 😭 he may not be an amazing human being, but he's a human being nonetheless
@@Screwdriver-lj4im HONESTLY LOL like he does not look that bad at all? he looks like a normal fella 😭
@@peachii3124 genuinely think the hatedom and standom fuel each other. the hatedom thinks the stans are cringe and stupid, the stans get defensive, and insult and make fun of the hatedom. the hatedom feels their point has been proven, and the cycle repeats. it leaves the silent majority of fans in the middle with their heads spinning just trying to watch a guy play a block game with his friends.
I mean, I'm part of the mcyt fandom, but that doesn't mean I can't see that they aren't flawless. Like, the entitlement and the paradocial relationship that most part of the fans have its really scary. I mean, outside of Dream, Wilbur Soot had to tell his fans that he doesn't like accounts that watch his Spotify activity, because the fact that they are thinking and speculating about his life outside o streaming make him uncomfortable. We also have the speculation about why Ranboo and Tubbo dont interact anymore.
And going back to Dream, I remember one time that he didn't put his Spotify on private and a a bunch of sex song where playing and people went crazy, like, okay, a joke it's fine, but bro, it was to much. Same with the face reveal, a joke it's fine, saying that he looks like Prince Charming from Sherk it's kinda funny, but people where using a joke and being toxic and mean.
Every fandom has toxic members y behavior (remember that one time a undertale fan gave a cookie with needles to an artist?), but the Dream fandom shine because they are so many and they have an almost bigger fandom of Dream haters, so they collide and are loud. Twitter is a place that gets really loud.
also, just to say it, I'm sick of people saying that Dream queerbaits, real people can't queerbait. like. pls just stop
especially since dream himself isn't even straight
@sewer~rat no
@sewer~rat I don't really think he is racist, like, maybe he made some racist coments before, but now with a fan base as diverse and big as the one he has I think it's really imposible for him to still being that way.
Also, I think that a lot of the accusation of him being racist are kinda outdated and it's just people holding onto past mistakes to just hate him. Like, yeah, people doesn't own him forgiveness for hurtful stuff he did o may have done, but I'm sure there is a line between being stupid and being racist. And it's important to undertand that people change and can redem themselves. I don't have to forgive you, but I can acknowledge that you changed for good.
sorry the English, it's my second language and sometimes sentences sounds weird xd
i agree with you, i was about to comment about the thing with ranboo and tubbo. it is kinda sad because most likely the fandom broke their friendship
@@elifuz_ its also he had bigoted views when he was like 14/15 but he clearly doesn't now but because its dream people think he cant change for the better
as someone who has been a dream fan for like almost 3 years now I personally thought this video was really refreshing to see. usually people either demonize him as the root of all evil or act like he has never done anything wrong ever which is both absurd 🤷🏽♀ the guy isn't perfect and that's okay. he has his own flaws and so does his fandom just like anyone else. all in all i enjoyed seeing someones rational and reasonable view of the fandom as an outsider and i'd love to see a video on barbs next for the series :)
YES AGREE, i've been a fan for about a year and i have never been so stressed to just enjoy something before 😭 i keep off twitter because that's where i find the most apathetic, absurd and cruel comments from both stans and haters
YESSS THANK YOU
Didn't he talk to an underage girl though? That's pedophilia 💀
yes because racism, ableism, and borderline queerbaiting is 100% just a flaw. bffr.
@@dracuzura REAL PEOPLE CAN'T QUEERBAIT how many times do we have to tell people this shit, he was forced to come out because of people like you constantly spreading this narrative, and it's accusations like these that caused the kit connor situation. and for fuck's sake when will people let go of the shit he said when he was in his little sheltered floridian conservative neighbourhood, he has consistently apologized for the same comments over and over and over because people don't want to let it go, no matter how much he affirms that he disagrees with his past opinions. i dare you to give me a concrete example of him being racist/ableist from the past two years that isn't just conspiracy and bias. it frustrates me how narrow-minded people become when it comes to past actions and someone's character, i'm sick of this puritist moral high horse that people sit on as if they've never said something stupid in their lives.
i think we all do just a little
A hot take right here guys \j
Let me preface this by saying that I used to be a dream fan!
I hate the hypocrisy of the dream fandom. If any other creator commits the minimal slight or wrongly worded statement, they'll get called out, there'll be multiple threads, fans will be called names, be blocked and blacklisted from the community, people will be added to blocklists and dni (do not interact) lists, but if dream does anything they'll bring up the document and say "I'll wait for his apology". I remember when he got called out about the triple k edit and so many (white) stans tweeted they "stand with the black community" but literally 30 minutes later dream started following random people and those same stans were already begging him to follow them. It's the hypocrisy that bothers me the most.
Also, the dude got accused of allegedly gr○○ming two underage fans, one of them came out with plenty of evidence that himself admitted was real. Even with that most of his stans attacked the victim, started to spread lies about her, tried to poke holes in her story and evidence, and behaved in disgusting victim shaming behavior.
In his addressing of the situation, Dream had the audacity of saying it's dangerous to feed into parasocial relationships, even though he's the poster boy of incentivizing it, he literally was selling his baby pictures and old emails to his most invested fans not too long ago.
And by the way, he's back at it again sending messages to fans in snapchat, the app where the alleged gr••ming happened. And even if you don't believe it was gr**ming, a creator giving a fan his personal snapchat, an app where communications disappear over time, it's irresponsible at best, being potentially dangerous and creepy in the worst case scenario.
THIS.
about dream grooming the underaged girls, the evidence wasnt hard evidence. in the screenshots she showed they were just talking normally, like a fan would to their ‘idol’. dream wasnt being inappropriate in those screenshots. we dont know the full story but i just wanted to say this. have a great day 🤗.
@@andreabuzzini2061 in one of the videos with his dms (that he confirmed are real) he replies "fine as hell" to a snapchat story of one the girls in a swimsuit... I personally don't think that's appropriate, a content creator messaging that type of thing to an underage fan, in his personal private snapchat.
Have a nice day as well.
@@andreabuzzini2061 it’s still a power imbalance between a fan and creator. And considering the creator in question, he could do anything to them and silence them indefinitely until his pedestal gets knocked down to where the victims can come out and finally voice their experiences. It’s harder to come out against a guy with an entire army of emotionally invested minors/young adults who would die to defend him.
@@andreabuzzini2061 its always believe women/victims until the person being accused is your fav...
As a DSMP stan, I totally agree. The fandom has become an absolute shithole because of how some people in it act. It's been toxic since I joined about 2 years ago and it's gotten much worse after his face reveal because people don't have a sense of shame. People rely on that man for their well being a bit too much.
REAL
Bruhhhh main reason I'm scared to admit im a fan (idk bout stan, idk much about the story other then some Wilbur and Ranboo stuff) cause I'm scared the dark side of the fandom will make others think poorly of me. Which hurts cause I loveeee joy ranting about things im interested. People don't really see alot of fans and stans HATE a large chunk of the fandom.
The hate he got for his face reveal wasn’t within the fandom, at least not for the most part. It was people outside of the fandom and who already hated him beforehand. (There was a few bad eggs within the fandom, but they weren’t stans! This is coming from someone who is an active member of the fandom and was there when it happened :) )
Were there when it happened ? no shit we were all there it happened literally a couple months ago
How would you know they weren’t stans (at least at one point)? You as an active member have a bias, and some stans actually did switch up after the face reveal because Dream didn’t look the way they wanted. Twitter’s activity was high overall since there were people either: bashing, praising or neutral about him face revealing. Plus, it would be fair to say many people including me were there as well. /nm
@@DisregardThisAcc it’s not hard to look through someone’s bio and scroll through their tweets and retweets to see if they’re an anti or stan
@@DisregardThisAcc The fandom (people who supported Dream's face reveal) literally had to go on private, as in multiple people at the same time/day, because haters are actively interacting with hate about Dream's face. Dream had already warned us beforehand that everyone will be "in the trenches" when it happens, and hell it did. People created lists for those who switched up to inform the rest who remains to support Dream and unfollow or block those people. Yeah. A lot of that.
This is just to give light to the struggle that is being overshadowed by the one-sided narrative that "the majority of Dream's fans sent him hate for not meeting their expectation" when we're literally hiding from all aggressive haters who seek out stan accounts just to harrass and make fun of us. :)
yea a lot of people are acting like his fans were mad with his face reveal bc they saw him as ugly but literally the majority of his fans were nothing but loving and supportive. i really hate how much the fandom is demonized and yes there are some disgusting people (ex. people who write smut about minors, who cross a cc’s boundary, who don’t treat them as people, etc) but there’s also a shit ton of talent within the fandom!! The fics, the fanart, the animatics, the music, there’s literally so much beauty within the fandom that a lot of people overlook. But honestly I feel like it’s a problem with a lot of mainstream fandoms where some people are toxic and suddenly people act like it’s a “cringe” thing to be a fan of (like voltron, bts, or even my hero academia all of whom at some point were basically the internets #1 enemy while also being the biggest fandom at the time).
ive always sort of watched the fandom from the outside but i'm so glad you addressed that dream never did grow out of his "edgy humor" and still makes a lot of bad takes and gets "forgiven" by his fans who were never affected in the first place. Like the r slur thing, yes he has ADHD but as someone with both ADHD and autism the word does have a lot of trauma for some people and he was so unwilling to listen to anyone trying to educate him and use his ADHD as an excuse to keep being disrespectful. Same can apply to his racist humor, his audience just enables him to never accept criticism from marginalized groups because he can pretend he's "one of us" and it sickens me but his fans eat that shit up and refuse to ever hold him accountable for making his audience an unsafe place for anyone who dare to point out that he's ignorant and privileged
i’m not really a dream fan however i do know that he has spoken to people talk about how he was disrespectful and he didn’t know and apologised for his behaviour and stoped i haven’t seen him use his adhd as an excuse idk maybe he did but idk and i’m pretty sure he doesn’t have racist humour he just tweeted smn on twitter that he didn’t know was racist however he did apologise so all in all i don’t really see why he gets hated on so bad-
@@itsalix5589 you're not a fan yet here you are defending him
i don’t understand though, none of that shit is recent? obviously that stuff isn’t justifiable, but to act as if he’s still the same bigoted asshole is a bit of a stretch. i’ve been following the guy for like two years and have yet to see any instance where he said bigoted things that aren’t the stuff from before he blew up. every time someone talks about his racism or ableism, it’s ALWAYS the same thing, and it’s ALWAYS the stuff from before he blew up, but they frame it as if it’s a pattern of continuous and ongoing behaviour.
@@peachyevren5789 and? lmao what’s the correlation, someone who’s not a fan can have an opinion and take his side on a situation
@@thealmightybucket5930 "obviously that isnt justifiable" *proceeds to infantilize him and justify his actions* there are things that are as recent as about a month ago, him joking about things he should not be joking about, dream as someone who isnt jewish should not be the one to joke about supporting someone spewing anti-semitic rhetoric
This is a really great video with some good points!
Another thing I think is something important to talk about is how “antis” (and this goes for other content creators too) have an unhealthy obsession with the people they hate. It’s on the same level as being a “stan”, but the obsession is negative instead of positive.
Like.. i’ve seen a lot go out of their way to spend all their time digging up anything they can in hopes of deplatforming these creators, they argue constantly with the fans, they make fun of the creators 24/7, and they doxx & send death threats to these fans/creators (Mostly on Twitter-suprise, suprise).
If people really hate someone, they shouldn’t give them any attention and should just move on. Negative attention is still attention. Even worse when it grows past the creators and begins to settle on the fans, who most of the time are just children enjoying content in their spare time.
yes the update account of Dream literally have to run blocklist because his anti are even more obsessed with him than us ??? it's really pathetic and scary
@@t0jil_art I actually recently read something about a situation somewhat similar to this where the original updates account (the one that deactivated-unofficial btw because apparently Dream had asked for the account, but they refused??) actually refused to do anything about the amount of antis flocking to their account. I found it really weird because they just let the antis harass the fans and keep up with everything Dream was doing.
These antis had notifications on and would go out of their way to comment on every update, further proving my point that antis basically work with a stan mindset. It’s unhealthy for them & those around them who get caught in the crossfire.
It’s good to hear that the new updates accounts are taking action against antis now! Im sorry that it’s come to that, though.
People really do need to learn to avoid the things they dislike.
yeah one thing that really took me aback is when some people literally doxxed wilbur to pull up an old anti-semitic joke he made as a kid. like what was the point?? what was the reason?? he clearly does not hold those views anymore, so what was the point to drag up heartache through illegal means just to prove he's a bad person??
@@thealmightybucket5930 The thing is that people forget that back then, others grew up watching youtubers with terrible dark humor. As much as it sucks, it’s just the way things used to be, but thankfully content has matured & most creators know better now.
A lot of these creators have grown up and changed by addressing their past and apologizing for it, so it’s kind of unfair when people keep bringing it up every time.
I always roll my eyes when I see someone bringing up something from when the creator was a literal CHILD. Especially when they’ve already apologized for being edgy and dumb as a kid.
(Though, it is fair for someone to still be uncomfortable and not accept the apology, but they should avoid the creator instead of becoming obsessed with trying to deplatform)
Sort of on topic.. the thing that sucks about the internet is that every mistake you make is caught and stored for later-like a library.
If I brought up my brother’s mistakes during one of our monthly arguments, I’d be a pretty shitty sister. I know he has learnt and grown and I would never resort to bringing those things back up. It’s hurtful and dismissive to his progress.
as someone who has been in his fandom for a little over two years , this is probably the best video I've seen about his fandom . it's def very toxic and has , kinda only gotten worse lol
this next part is probably gonna be a mess I'm trying my best-
when it comes to the shipping stuff , a while back dream had a stream talking about boundaries and shit and also made a list that he posted to twitter (i think it was to twitter..?) saying he's okay with shipping as long as the other person is over 18 and also okay with it , as someone who has written / drawn dnf centric things i still think there are a lot of people who definitely take it too far to where it just gets weird. i feel there's no harm in making ship are or fics or whatever as long as it's not breaking boundaries , and maybe joking around here and there with like satire-like tweets or whatever , but there is definitely a point where it gets really fucking weird (not saying I'm completely innocent of this , I'm not I've made some stupid cringy ass tweets in the past about them 💀)(also this is coming from a dude who likes dudes i am a man liker just pointing that out)
idk if that made sense again , i am not good at explaining things but yeah 👍
edit : also to add on to anyone who thinks he's a straight guy or something (i see a lot of people saying it everywhere i just thought I'd scream into the void about it really quick) because he hasn't come out as explicitly gay , he HAS come out , not as gay but he has explicitly said he is not straight so 👍
and another thing to add on that i forgot to say , i agree with the end of this video a lot , i think the fandom forgets that you can like someone's content and call them out on shit , and i also think they forget that people can be offended by shit people have done no matter how long ago it was
anyway that was my closing thoughts I'm done that is the end of me yelling into the void tyty
Finally, a commentary UA-camr that made actual research while talking about him 🙌 and as someone who had seen lots of concerning things on both (love/hate) sides, I gotta add something.
Tbf the only people I muted on twt after his face reveal were from people who didn't like him, 100% of stans *that I've seen* were calling him hot and changing his pfp to his face. Obviously, some stans were calling him ugly but it was just a part.
As person who has been in multiple fandoms I'd say all of them are full of shit. But the worst part of it, some people don't even realize how toxic their fandoms are, even call them 100% non-toxic which is bs. Everyone can join fandom, no matter what are their traits. Non-toxic fandom is an oxymoron.
Plus Dream is actually a bit into men, he was forced to come out as well 'cos people were calling him homophobic over "gay people don't exits" jokes 💀💀
Not to mention the mcyt and their fans are really young, I guess it'll calm down in few years. Undertale was like synonymous with bad fandom and I guess it's a bit better now.
And for context I'm kinda dsmp fan but not a stan. I see their mistakes but I also think that some of their haters are crazy af. Plus yes, all of mcyt did some questionable things
Lived through this with 1D, Dan and Phil, O2L, 5SOS, AND more I’m probably forgetting about rn. I remember always thinking the fetishization of these people being gay was odd. I always said I would support any of them coming out (and I have) but people always take it too far. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve noticed it more and more (ex: when I began stanning BTS or listening to more Kpop). I’m in my mid-20s now: it’s super weird to care about someone else’s sexuality to the point that stans do. It’s a really unhealthy pattern of behavior in the fandom culture that keeps popping up. I feel like there needs to be psychological studies on this because I’ve seen it so many times since I joined fandoms 10 years ago.
We’re glad to have you back, Frederic. You look absolutely stunning. Keep up the good work on all your content. Best of luck and may God bless you always.
I love your name! It's like a Princess! Spread the magic, and frolic through the fields!
no no, as an MCYT enjoyer specially the dsmp fandom, he'd right, I very much agree
same
as someone who was a fan until the allegations and is still within the general fandom circle, thank you so much for making this video. calling out toxicity and problematic behaviours both that he and fans do gets so quickly shut down by the fandom, yet it’s so important to recognise the major issues so things can change. i hope other fans respect this video and every point you’ve made, as some positive change could come from this
The fandom isn't just kinda toxic, it's the whole sewage system under a nuclear waste facility-
what you said about holding people accountable reminded me of when the news about rex orange county being charged on 6 counts of SA came out and i was literally devastated. his music has helped me when i’ve been in a bad place so it just sucks ass to know that someone who’s made a difference in your life is such a horrific person. but it’s like i know i can’t just keep loving his music the same due to his actions. tough thing to think about
As soon as I saw the title I agreed his fans have threatened to doxx me
gotta tread gently, if you say you love or hate him, you'll get doxx threats from children who don't know the implications of what they're doing and might actually go through with it
Pretty much anyone that says anything negative about dream either gets death threats or some type of doxxing attempt and it's so scary honestly
@@unitlonda4925 i know, as someone who enjoys dsmp and understands that it's not for everyone, i really wish people weren't like that
As someone who fell down the rabbit hole of fandom ships I 100% agree with you. Having seen some of the insane and disgusting shit people say and write about real human beings it’s so clear that a lot of “fans” don’t actually care the content and just dissect it to fit a weird narrative rather than enjoy it for what it is.
as someone who watches some of the people that were/are on the dsmp I think the worst thing about the "Dream team" side of the fandom is that they themselves do not care about their fans being creeps and actively avoid calling them out for some reason, even when people try and get these problems to their attention. Even his friends/other people on the server have talked about how it is very notorious why the majority of the weird people are specifically fans of the dream team and dislike the other creators who actually put them in their place and set boundaries... but again, they have a lot of times acted just as immature as their fans and caused problems for other creators, they are not responsible enough for the size of their audience whatsoever and their egos are way to big for their own good, creator attracts audience
can you do genshin fandom?
there is a major drama over nahida lovers and haters
I say that, and I am a fan. Now, don't get me mixed with being a part of the fandom, I'm simply just a fan
One of my irl fans, a dream fan, also hates dream fans
Also the whole “ugly” thing just harkens back to the invisible man of hotel Transylvania. I’ll leave it at that
Dream is the reason we got stuck with the glow squid, and in my eyes, he can never be forgiven for that.
minecraft live was on birthday last year and i wanted the glare once i found out it was him who wanted that useless squid 😡😡😡😡😡😡😭😭😭😭 I hate that racist white boy
lmao fair enough
Lmao I'm a fan and I can totally agree 😭
As someone on the older side of stan twitter, I understand where you're coming from with a lot of your points. Very well put together video.
One thing that I would like to add abt why ppl have made this google doc, is bc periodicly leaktwt would dig into Dream's past (stuff he himself had already deleted from his channel long before he blew up, or, right when he was blowing up in 2020 when his fanbase started calling him out for stuff trying to hold him accountable and educate him, he's a florida man after all) and leak it to try to "cancel" him. People got tired of explaning the same things over and over again (made worse by "drama channels" on youtube spreading false info cause they were too lazy to do research, not you, your video is great). And honestly, ppl don't try to deny things that dream has done, cause dream himself has admitted to it, the thing ppl usually point out is the fact that most things that keep coming out are years old; before he had a fanbase who held him accountable and tried to educate him on things. The doc is mostly for people to find context and apologies (which there are A LOT of, bc unlike most CCs, he doesn't ignore stuff).
The biggest example for me (of dream's behaviour and fandom being different), which is kind of ironic considering some remarks from your video, is Markiplier's KKK skit which is still up and monetized on his channel. No youtuber is skeaky clean, bc we live in a bigoted world. Dream is no diffrent, specially considering his age and enviroment growing up. I think the main thing ppl should look if for change, or at least being open to it, not afraid to address things, and it's all I've ever seen him do, bc his fanbase doesn't let stuff get sweeped under the rug until he addresses it. But if you say that with more than 2 sentences and actually look into the controversies and apologies, you get called a dickrider (or you get doxed..but hey that's another conversation for another time).
I don't know if I agree about the part where you say that the fandom holds Dream accountable. All I ever see is others pointing out something Dream did, and then he posts something like "love you guys💕" and then the comments are full of people saying that they forgive him, no matter what.
I don't disagree that there probably are fans that do hold him accountable but I haven't really seen a lot of that on Twitter
@@unitlonda4925 If you think dream only tweets "love you guys" as responses to serious topics when people are educating him, IDK what to tell you. And this is exactly why people made that freaking google docs with all of his responses to each situation in the first place, bc of this narative that dream doesn't address things, or that his fandom doesn't hold him accountable.
@@secretyidentity2833 I've also seen him call someone a sensitive snowflake when someone tried to educate him that saying the r slur probably wasn't a good idea and how it can be hurtful to a lot of people.
I don't know, every apology I've seen of his sounded very empty to me. And he absolutely has tweeted "love you guys" a few days after a controversy so many times.
It simply is a fact that his stans are quick to "accept his apology" and forgive him when it wasn't really their place to begin with because they weren't part of the harmed group
@@unitlonda4925 You can say they felt empty, but you can't say he doesn't addresss it and just tweets love you guys, and his fans ignore it.
He does address it, and it's always up to said community to acept his apology.
Most of the things brought up (like the r word), were from 2020 (or prior), which is the year he really blew up, and was exposed to all corner of the internet and people of all walks of life, many tried educating him on some things he was doing/saying/defending during that time, and his responses weren't the best (as you would expect from a 20-21 home schooled gamer in the state of Florida who gained millions of subscribes in a few months).
Over time he started to change, and become more open to hearing what people told him was offensive and why.
and again, speaking as someone who is inside the twitter discourse. There is always an active effort from fans to focus on the marginalized groups affected, meaning, uplifting their voices.
ua-cam.com/video/jXNuknXF2rE/v-deo.html (dream talking abt the r word and changing his opinnions once people started educating him on subjects)
I agree with most of what you said in the video, I love your content and I could tell you did some research before this. The only thing I'm gonna say is that most people who were disappointed with his looks on twitter, tiktok etc... were actually just people who tagged along for the face reveal and not long time fans because as you said it was very hyped. I saw a bunch of fans of his post a lot of nice stuff about how he looks and hyping him up for his courage.
I'm not a dream stan and never was but I do consider myself as someone who enjoys his and (especially) his friends' content. It was terrible how he was treated by the people on the internet (especially twitter) and they definitely crossed the line between "haha funny meme, he does kinda look like that one guy" and "this is not okay this is bullying".
yes I don't really understand how ppl changed the fact that it was regular ppl and his anti that literally made a whole hashtag to hate on his look it was definitely not the fans cause we even put the rules to not interact negatively with the face reveal and even just not interact with anti at all
Dream has said he's not straight, and that he's not rlly sure what his sexuality is! He's stated he's scared to label himself in case his sexuality changes and people will hate him. Telling
As someone who is in the fandom I can tell you did very well research on this. Great video and btw your makeup looks so good
As a current Dsmp fan, I never liked dream. I'm a bigger fan of Ranboo, aimsey, Tubbo, Tommy etc. The thing I don't like about him is he absolutely sucks at setting boundaries with his fans. He kinda just lets them run wild, which isn't ok. For example, there was a person who wore a nsfw dnf shirt to the twitchcon panel(which is a terrible thing to do like wtf), and dream just laughed it off like it was ok. He really needs to tell people what's ok and what's not, because there are young kids in his "fandom" that could start thinking this type of behavior is ok and that causes lots of problems. I'm not saying it's his fault for them being crazy, I'm saying he needs to let them know what's okay and what's not because leaving them to go crazy without repercussions isn't good for anyone.
I was blown away by how objectively correct this video was thanks Frederic
honestly i see your point, but what else was he supposed to do? make the situation awkward by calling the person out? it was his first public appearance, i doubt he wasn’t filled with extreme anxiety and just trying to get through the panel. besides, i can attest that the man has TRIED time and time and time again, and made several public statements about how he does NOT support any kind of doxxing, harassment or hate on his behalf, but that’s just the thing, the people who want to do those things are going to do them anyway. at this point, it’s already too far gone for his words and actions to have any meaningful effect. now it’s just a hindsight thing, and probably some more anxiety for him now that he’s face revealed
Thank you for explaining this situation. I don't have twitter or tiktok but I do have the comfort of pinterest. Pinterest doesn't explain anything like a UA-cam video would though. On pinterest there have been some memes that I saw and I was immensely confused why anyone cared to call him ugly. It was one bad angle (which makes sense he is not use to it) and an average face. It's bullying to go after something that somebody can't control. I don't care for dream but if you want to point out meaningful things maybe point out the actions of a creator instead of a face. A face isn't harming anyone but the actions and words that someone does can cause damage.
Also I must concur with Fredrick that he is looks stunning in his videos with makeup and outfits.
At 9:40, this happens a lot in the kpop community too. Same-sex "secret crushes". There are many videos about it and even fanfictions about it. I would always feel bad when it happens and it can get awkward
great video! one thing tho, as someone deep in the fandom i personally didnt see any of his fans (not saying there werent any) talk bad about his looks. Everyone was actually simping for him XD. most of the people that did talk badly were, well, the antis.
istg some people are just a little to obsessed with a man playing minecraft. like actually kind of inappropriately obsessed with him. and then the moment he shows his face they bully him
hi frederic!! it's been a thing for antis to always compare shipping dream and george to dan and phil, septiplier etc but dream and george are okay with shipping. they don't care about it! they also don't care about sexualisation (as long as it isn't minors doing it) also the fact that antis think dream is queerbaiting when doing this when he's an actual queer man himself
isnt that kinda weird that they're,,,ok with the sexualization? Thats not normal, even if theyre comfortble with shipping, straight up sexualizing them is overboard whether theyre ok with it or not. Personally myself I dont think people should allow shipping because its shown how bad it can get and honestly,,its weird! Theyre real people. Unless they specified you could ship the characters they PLAY, you shouldnt ship real people (Coming from someone who used to ship septiplier and it wasnt good0
I think more people should think about why they ship a specific demographic in the first place than how they’d react to it
@@ColorfulSouls why.. are you speaking for them?? they're grown men who can make their own decisions? they said they don't care and that's that. 😭👎
@@phia3880 how am I speaking for them exactly? I just said its weird and not normal the fact they said sexualizing them was ok & how you shouldn't ship real life people,,,,idc if they're grown men or if they said theyre ok with it, its weird n you shouldn't do it. People have drawn some disgusting things way past youtubers boundries.🥶
@@phia3880 also im fully aware they can make their own decisions but that doesnt mean its still not weird, normally people dont go around telling their fanbase of millions of strangers sexualizing them (which are 2 people those millions dont even know) is ok,,,,Once again unless they specified that you can do that with their INGAME characters I wouldnt care so much but that doesnt seem to be the case
as a dream stan i clicked so fast- our fandom be toxic ngl, a whole lotta people came running back for the face-reveal, we were just starting to heal! but alas we win some, we lose some (close chats on streams)
frederic always has the most sober and realistic takes no matter what 😭
As part of the oh so hated "dream fans" this video was really interesting and you put a lot in research in it !
Hello, how are you doing? I've never been so early. I love your videos, and thank you for being so encouraging when it comes to college and accepting yourself. :)
Fantastic video bestie✨ This sort of thing is honestly so common on UA-cam. I think people like to treat UA-camrs similar to their fictional comfort characters, so they're kind of pressured to fit into this character that their fanbase created them to be. It'll be a cold day in hell when I defend Dream for his actions lmao but I can see how it can be a little stressful sometimes. Just remember the people you stan are regular folks like you and not anime characters lol
exactly, i still keep up with the man but you will never catch me defending his old racist comments when he was a kid, nor his impulsive and immature behaviour following the speedrun scandal.
@@thealmightybucket5930 No literally same. It's so annoying he gets away with so much cuz of cute white boy syndrome. And being eDgY is such a middle school thing lmao so many people haven't grown out of it cuz making offensive comments means you're "cool" and "unfiltered" like sis please we can all tell you just want people to think you're cool
@@seeegaaaa yeah, i feel like i understand dream a little with his edgy behaviour when he was younger because i was also that kid, growing up in a bigoted environment and doing and saying the things i thought would impress the people around me. as soon as i was exposed to more perspectives though, that shit changed so fast. and i feel like it’s the same with him, i have not seen him make a singular bigoted comment since like early 2020 when he was still relatively small, and the man has repeatedly apologized and denounced his behaviour. at this point there’s not really anything left to say tbh.
as someone who’s been a “stan” for 2 years now, i completely agree, the embarrassing half of this fandom is why i don’t tell ppl i like the dream smp unless we’re rlly close.
I KNOW! i get bullied sometimes!
I'm looking forward to future episodes of this series! Learning more about fandoms is always very interesting to me, even if I'm not part of them or know nothing about the thing they're a fan of.
I am a kpop fan, and i would love for you to talk about the stans or sasengs!! Many youtubers have already done it, but i feel like it cannot be talked enough about. It is so horrible if you take deep dive into just kpop by itself.
On a side note being a Swiftie and a kpop fan I'd actually enjoy the roasting videos.
First I'm a baby Swiftie and Istg I've already seen the toxic bits, like there was a post on Twitter about Rihanna releasing new music for the first time in like 6 years (personally I didn't really care but I was "oh good for her ig") this was during the Midnights release and Istg the thread was full of swifties saying "we don't care" "it'll flop" "could never outsell taylor" and I was like "woah guys literally has nothing to do with her"
Kpop. Ik you aren't in the fandom so let me tell you. I've been in kpop since I was young so I defo was apart of the toxic dumb stuff way back in the day but I wouldn't say the really bad stuff, but I defo got in a few dumb yt comment fights. Anyways after being in it for 6 years I can't be bothered anymore and I just listen for Music now.
-There was a thing where people were editing fancams with gore
-Bodyshaming is so relevant in this community it's ridiculous
-Minors are constantly sexualised
-You can't call out anyone without getting hated on (e.g. everyone calling the Art Director of a rookie girl group called NewJeans that has very young members because she had used lolita inspirations for young girls, had been seen with photos of underage girls, had given them a song called Cookie which is very sexual. People called her out and delusional NewJeans fans said that they were hating on the group. Btw the you gest member is 14.
-Racism (that's all I'll say)
-Fans being delusional as istg they'll defend anything, I was kinda siding with people who were annoyed that BLACKPINK wouldn't sing live at a concert so those people wanted their money back. People defended it by saying "do you really expect them to sing all that time?" I mean yeah it's a concert
-NMIXX Jiwoo was 16 and got fatshamed by everyone istg
-Garam bullying thing was ridiculous, she was 16 and some allegations that she used to bully people in school cane up and she ended up getting kicked out of her group. It's weird because 2 years previous we had the AOA bullying scandal in which Jimin was accused of bullying her member Mina and over time people found out that Jimin had been framed and Mina was actually at fault here. Everyone then said "we shouldn't believe so blindly guys" then they cancelled a 16 year old easily because she had no fandom yet, also after getting kicked out it's come to light that she may be innocent
-Double Standards, istg male idols could be so bored and blank faced and people will swoon over him but if Female idols do it they're rude.
-Streaming culture, I have been shamed for not streaming before and I seriously don't get it
-You can say "Oh I don't really listen to Seventeen" and get DRAGGED. Really any group Seventeen were an example, like I never said anything bad I just listen to like 2 of their songs that's it.
-Boy Group stans vs Girl Group stans
-Shipping Culture is gross, people will ship 2 idols so much then get so pissed when they're actually dating someone.
-People are so unfiltered istg someone could tweet "my dad died today" and someone will reply with "Well if only he stanned loona"
-People not realising that idols are people and that they're just going to work and not every group has to be best friends (e.g. Brown Eyed Girls, the members consider each other more like coworkers than friends)
Anyway I kinda want them to be dragged. Also maybe you could tall about the Kdrama fandom I mean it's not as bad as the Kpop fandom but kdramas defo do romanticise abusive relationships.
I definitely think Dream has done some shitty things before; however, I am not involved enough to have a solid opinion beyond that. I HAVE been around Dream stans though, and so many of them are just. Yikes
i am pretty involved and my opinion of him is similar to hasan piker's if you know him. he's done shitty and stupid things, but there's a difference between fucking up and having flaws than being the actual anti-christ. people seem to forget that.
@@thealmightybucket5930 I think you described my thoughts on him well. As someone who tries not to involve themselves with MCYT, I try not to speak on those matters too often, but frankly it was very discomforting to watch so many people just absolutely berate this one guy and then say “you shouldn’t feel bad, he is bad!!1!1!”
@@sterliingsilver9592 I KNOW! every time i go through threads like that i just lose hope in humanity. being popular seems to almost remove the human aspect of the person and it frankly disturbing whenever i see people outwardly saying and getting praise for wanting dream or someone else to die or be subjugated to just awful things
“he lives in florida, which is already a sin”
as i floridian, i very much agree 😭😭
Gahh, im so scared of watching this video. I completely love you, and I interact a lot with dream fans, and him, because I like a lot his friends and stuff. I know the fandom can be bad a lot of the time, but there is also a TON if misunderstanding - where people think the people who dislike dream are the fans. I’ve seen 0 fans shitting on his face. It is what is known in the fandom as ‘antis’, where people who dislike dream use SO MUCH if their time on him that from the outside, they look like fans, but they really aren’t.
That being said, some people ARE mean assholes, and actually terrible people.
+ I really don’t want to come off as an unthhinkung blindly supporting dream fan, bc I really hate lots of the things he has (allegedly) done, it’s just super hard avoiding him in my twitter ‘social circle’ and interests
I think one of the reasons women love gay love stories so much is because queer men tend to not exhibit toxic masculinity as much as cishet men. There are several other reasons but that's one of them. imo we shouldn't shame girls for shipping fictional male characters, but for the love of god do not ship real people i am begging
On some days I am just insanely happy that I never had and never will have Twitter and spend all my time on Instagram talking to other literature nerds about books... 😂 I am so far removed from all of this. Thank God
as a kpop stan i need you to roast kpop stans bc we're all either dumb as shit or ignorant and we're all biased that combo makes being a kpop stan hell i also need you to call out the miraculous fandom bc i know you'll word it better than me when you talk about the sexualization of characters who are minors (i've seen too much nsfw fan art of cat noir and i honestly wanted to throw up bc he's 14)
I'm not a stan, but I do like kpop and consider myself a fan of some groups, and yes I agree roast the kpop fandom
the thing about dream is that he has the same amount as fans, as he has from haters
and theyre always fighting, or babying him, or exaggerating every bad thing he ever did or really just lying in hopes to get him out of the internet, so in the middle of all of this you also have people trying to treat every single criticism against him like is just "neg" or false
its a mess really
Are you a personal stylist or designer? Your outfits are always so put together. Your makeup and earrings are so pretty and compliment the top. I'm impressed. I like the cut of your jib, kid.
20:22 exactly why I (personally) am over
the stuff he did. i’m NEVER defending him with that, as a black person that doesn’t really watch him. i’m over the Markiplier video from like 7 years ago bc he stopped. if someone has grown, there’s not much for me to say. where I grew up so many ppl had a toxic mindset as little kids but they grew up and got educated, but i PERSONALLY don’t care who watches cz we all have our own opinions 🤷🏽♀️
I mean I know it's random and different from Frederic's kind of commentary topics but I'd really like to hear him talk about the gacha fandom ngl
also I'm pretty sure he doesn't do this anymore but I just thought of a new nickname: French fries
I'm kinda creeped out by this fandom now. There are a whole webtoon category of him and I didn't know where it came from until now
I clicked on this so FAST, seriously tho I hope you don't get any nasty comments and stay safe cause the fandom legitimately scares the shit out of me
me too, and im IN it
@@thealmightybucket5930
You need to get out of that Lmfao.
@@Im_Iconic-Youre_Ironic nah i'm happy in the part of the fandom where i am, off of twitter and tiktok, and simply enjoying cool fanart and fun videos
@@thealmightybucket5930
The whole community is toxic, to the point where if anyone hears about the fandom, they immediately think about how f*cking crazy it is... It even beats mha!
@@Im_Iconic-Youre_Ironic to say an entire community is toxic and bad is widely one dimensional. i’m sitting here, telling you, as someone who has been in the fandom for over a year and a half, that there are good aspects lmao. i know twitter and tiktok suck, and i know there are really immature and irresponsible children who love to doxx people who don’t like their favs, but to say that that’s everyone is insane. you only hear about the bad parts because they’re the loudest.
I’m a bit late, but I would love to see a video about the K-pop fandom (which I am a part of), because I’ve seen a lot of gay fetishizing. And ppl hating on specific idols to make their favorite seem better.
I'm not really in the MC youtubers/streamers community, but so much of the shipping in it really reminds me of the Septiplier and Phan days and the whole 'shipping real people on the internet' thing just seems to keep repeating itself in the same way. It's honestly quite creepy and obsessive and can literally ruin the friendships that creators have. And all that is coming from someone who was kinda into the aforementioned ships, I too was once 14 lol
You're always so respectful and understanding in these videos, while also being funny. Also where did you get your sweater its so cute
as someone who enjoys dreams and his friends content (sometimes 😂) i personally totally agree with this video. I hate saying that i like his content because people think i’m a part of the community/ fandom. i personally think majority of the fandom is very very toxic. They say they respect these people then they make fun of them and are just plain mean. thank you for posting this, unlike most videos it points out that the majority of the fandom is toxic not the creators themselves (i’m not saying the creators haven’t done things that aren’t toxic/ problematic because they definitely are i just think the fandom is way more toxic than the creators) i hope you guys have a nice day/ night :)
litterally everything you say in this video i agree with!!! dreams community got a little out of hand but hes handeling it well. also i really hate what happened to kit .. ppl are weird.
You're definitely right and the fandom is partially pretty toxic, it's also mostly children.
Sorry if i come of as defensive but I kind of also am, I try not to be but dream has definitely helped me a lot and so did the fandom.
I'm a dream ''stan'' myself, started watching him back in 2020 and I've been a fan without even caring about what he looks like, he doesn't have to share anhtging about his private live his content is great (in my opinion ofc).
For the controversies he did talk about them a lot on twitter and twitch (i don't really know what was going on at that time).
He also knew he'd get shit on for his face reveal, it was just expected from the haters that often get seen as part of his fans idk why tbh. And about the queerbating: he's said that he isn't straight and doesn't wanna lable himself/ doesn't really know hwat he falls under.
I can't say my opinion is compleatly objective since that man has really created a safe space for me and thousands of other people with his smp and just the fandom he created (I straight up ignore the haters and toxic fans) and I do think it's funny shipping people ofc but I do only ship their characters not them bc I think it's weird and I don't wanna do anything that could make them uncomfortable (anyone really). Ofc dream's done some stuff, the grooming alligations, I don't believe them cuz most things really don't add up but I also don't hate on the person who made them, I try to do something good for my mental health and not get into it too much. If they turned out to be true I'd definetly reconsider.
Also please if I made typos or any mistakes (grammar & spelling) just ignore them, english isn't my first language.
Even if you are a stan, don't disregard the grooming allegations. It's fine to not have an opinion bcs no one will know the outcome, but given the victim is currently building a case against him it's best to not assume.
"hes from florida which is already a sin" *sniffles in floridian*
4:11 frederic. i was near my family.
You’re welcome
Dreams fandom is also toxic because they said if the allegations against him were proven 100% true, they'd still support him.
Yeah it doesn't supprise me also I just found out that Dream stans were victim blaming the girl and making fun of her.
@@Doris-gf4hb, which girl? cause if you're talking about Amanda, then there's a reason why a lot of fans aren't immediately on her side. personally, i'm neutral in this situation, but at first i of course believed the victim. but then she started changing her story, her age (as first she was 17, then 30, or something like that), she's involved with leaktwt (doxxing and stuff similar to that), her boyfriend is an anti, i'm pretty sure her evidence she presented to twitter was proven true (messages related wise) but the texts didn't show anything inappropriate, just normal banter, etc. for now, i'm still believing amanda since she is a victim, but for now, she's really blowing it. i think there were two girls btw, but i can be wrong, since i don't know the other girl's name. but yeah, amanda herself is a bit suspicious, and there's one more situation that's made me believe her even less, but if you want i can make another comment about it? this comment is long enough. (hopefully you're talking about the recent grooming allegation(s) because if not then i just took too much time writing this 😅)
12:19
oh damn i was just gonna comment that- it's actually so sad amd baffling to see that our own community that knows the fear of being outed or not knowing one's sexuality thinks they're entitled to a celebrity/public figure's??? it makes no sense.
"more people need to learn what shame is"
looking in several different directions rn
as a dream fan for over 2 years this was really refreshing to watch. a few things i wanted to add tho, the main reason he face revealed was bc he wanted to shift his content to irl vlogs w his friends (like now that george is in florida they could begin filming videos together) and thats not possible if he didn't show his face. also the queerbaiting thing makes no sense to me bc dream has said hes on the spectrum (at first he came out as unlabeled and im not sure what he is now). youre so right about the controversies part tho i feel like a decent amount was blown out of proportion from bandwagon hate but there are some with truth in them. i left the fandom a few months ago bc i got sick of the immaturity in both the fans and dream's responses to many of the allegations
Damn, all I can say about dream stans (specifically smiletwt) is that they harassed my friends for liking certain youtubers (and I saw other people getting doxxed for the same reason). So Dream saying that "we're just overreacting " about doxxing, when his toxic fandom is known for exactly that still is so bonkers to me.
Being there for the whole Dan and Phil thing at like 11 traumatized me so when I started watching Dream Team content and realized what was going on there I had war flashbacks
i’d honestly love to hear your take on pewdiepie, especially with his current content!! as someone who used to be a fan, admittedly defended him during that wall street journal thing, fell off being a fan after he said the n word, and have been slowly coming back to his japan vlogs, its been interesting to see how people react to him/think of him nowadays.
Ok as someone in this fandom I do agree with lots of your opinions on this and in my opinion I really don't care about how a creator looks as long as they're a good person
I actually preferred staying anonymous, the less people online who knows me the better.
Omg I need that sweater please
and the earrings...
... and the rings
Aha, seeing this a year later, this aged well.
fr i was looking for this comment 😭
I agree with the sexualising tbh its cringe and makes me uncomfy to this fandom is definitly weird sometimes espesially in 2020
im kinda glad i joined in around april 2021 because it definitely wasn't as prevalent
Hey, someone had to say it (one of the main reasons I stayed away from watching Dream is his fandom scared me besides my friends who are chill). Also, I’ll admit I took part in the jokes for a day or two, but not publicly, just as an inside joke with friends (both fans and not) and we didn’t take it far at all, we had no expectations for what he looked like and we didn’t say he was ugly, we just compared him to (mostly fictional) people (which I do to everyone whether I like him or not). I’m not a fan of him because I’ve heard of some problematic stuff he’s done, but calling someone physically ugly, especially publicly for everyone to see, is wrong. Dream is just some guy in the end, everyone looks differently, why does it actually matter? Also, shipping people irl is not the vibe at all, it’s just uncomfortable for everyone. Fictional characters, different story (as long as it’s not something like shipping an adult with a child because EW) because it’s not gonna have an affect on actual human beings in this world.
i'm not on twitter, but don't worry i'm still struggling with my mental health you aren't missing anything ... also i'd love to say i'm gay ( bi : girls & non binaries) but you do look amazing!
This video needs to blow up, I am personally no longer in the fandom, bc I agree, the fandom is one of the more toxic fandoms out there.
*Dream Stans grabbing their pitchforks*
DreamSMP Fandom: Bro, what the fuck are you doing??
literally lmao
Thank you. I am still in the fandom and I’ve seen the shit that the people in this fandom do. And personally I’m more of like a cricket crew fan then a dream fan but i do enjoy his content. And the way people in this fandom and the people outside of the fandom treat him and other yt and streamers in the fandom is so disappointing and disgusting. And the way that they treated Dream when he came out was so sad. The people on Twitter are so fucking horrible, and have nothing to do with their lives the bully people. Like my whole class knows that i enjoy the dsmp and they always shit on him and make fun of him like cyber bullying is actually funny. And then they brought up techno and though it was funny to make fun of him. And that’s really where I draw the fucking line, that’s not funny, having stage 4 cancer is not funny. People need to fucking grow up and learn that feelings are real. And I’m so sorry for any other faceless UA-camrs, bc the fact that they are hiding their face usually means they are insecure about it, and then seeing Dream get shit on it must make them feel so much worse. So I feel so bad for any faceless UA-camrs. Like actually people need to respect others.
Alr that’s my rant for today bc the way people reacted to this really pissed me off that people can be like that. Okay if someone is reading this have a good day, get off Twitter and go listen to some music.
we'll probably never see Ranboo's face, will we?
I used to be really into the dsmp cuz I just liked the lore and I like some of the youtubers that were in it. When i saw what dream looked like my only thought was "ok" then moved on with my life. My friend started to roast him, so I told her that "we live in Florida, who are you seeing that looks pretty standing next to him?"
Edit: PLEASE DO KPOP NEXT! As a kpop fan (don't really know if I can call myself that cuz I really only listen to Stray Kids) I have seen my fair share of toxicity within the fandom, and that toxicity alone is the reason why it took me YEARS to finally listen to the music. Also, the shipping is really weird, and it just seems to be on a different level than "normal shipping".
kpop would be a 6 hour video 😭
@@misisiwiwi Ikr 😭
I've been an active fan of Dream's for two years, and this video makes a lot of good points. There's lots to discuss, but overall I'd like to say one thing. Any rational member of this community will tell you that Dream is not perfect. He has absolutely said and done things that are offensive and controversial. So why would one continue to support him? To me, I believe that Dream has actively grown and changed as a person. He's apologized, recognized that he was wrong, and hasn't done those things since (you can of course choose to not forgive him, that's just me). Lots of his controversies are genuinely bogus, like the queerbating thing. People really use that against him to prove he's the spawn of satan or something. I say this to mean that yes, people do have genuine reasons to dislike him and the fandom, however, there are definitely those who hate him just to hate him, and go so far as to send fans death threats just for being a fan. I appreciate that Frederic takes a more neutral approach, and took the time to research him and the community, both for the good and the bad. It's important to discuss the negative impacts a fandom can have.
omg please do swifties next
I think because people drew him with a specific art style people assumed that's what he looked like (because it was all they had ro fo off of) which didn't meet their expectations because it is humanly impossible to look like an anime cartoon character
People say that every fandom has it's toxicity, but the Dream fandom is a whole 'nother level. Honestly, I'm glad I left the DSMP fandom.
Edit: Also when I saw Dream's face reveal, I thought he looked okay. Like, he wasn't super ugly or super attractive. Just right in the middle.
20:20 The Dream Controversy stuff kinda reminds me of the Markiplier fandom giving him shit NOW because he spoke on Pewdiepie's behavior 7 years ago. Or i guess even more relatable would be the people who went and basically forced Lindsey Ellis off of youtube. She has a video on her channel still public about the BS she's tackled with the people who document her every move throughout her entire career. She's changed, she's apologized, she's tried to move on but people can't let that shit go for some reason. We really need to learn to leave the past in the past. Unless it's something truly and horrifically bad like the secret resurrection of Adolf Hitler, One's past should not define their present or their future.
I had never heard of this man until that entire week of my FYP just being people hyping up his face reveal, and honestly I was so sick of it that by the time it happened I was laughing at their disappointment because like what were you expecting for a Minecraft UA-camr, and he isn't even ugly
Off topic but I love your channel so much it makes me so happy to watch your videos. I know this is very of topic but I love your channel.
Thank you so much!!
"am i finally getting through"
Ooooh do drag race. As a dr fandom member there's some shit to talk about
22:16 even if I do love and enjoy KPOP, I'd probably agree with a lot you'll have to say about the fandom
The last half of this video reminds me of The Walking Dead fandom, specifically the Daryl Dixon section. There was a gay character Jesus and the actors used to get swarmed with tags, questions, etc about making Daryl gay. As far as the actor has reviewed, Norman presents as straight (has a child and is engaged to a women). The show runners had to address it multiple times and after a few episodes stopped putting the actors together in scenes (from what I remember of the show).
I’d also like to add this fandom is largely adults and NOT a Teeny bopper fandom like you would see with a CW show or something. That adds an extra layer of gross and “should kno better” to it.