Starcraft 2: The WORST Grand Finals Ever? (Serral vs Rogue)
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Best-of-7 series of professional StarCraft 2 between Rogue (Zerg) and Serral (Zerg). People are calling this Grand Finals of the TSL 8 the worst finals ever.
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Regarding taking time off: definitely do what you feel is best for yourself. People tune in because of your passion for doing what you do. If you get burnt out and the passion fades, no one will want that. Loving these casts!
I AGREE allot:)
Exactly. Much as I love games like StarCraft or AoE, it's the passion you bring to casting that keeps me coming back for these videos.
Not to mention, it's advice from Zorro himself. You can't disagree with it, especially if you re-read the post in Antonio Banderas' voice xD
I agree with this. Don't get burned out! I noticed a 6 day work week quite some time ago and I think it might be too much in a long term, depending on the details, hours per day, etc. Lowko is going strong for so many years, though ;)
Agreed!!!
Quality before quantity. If you need a day off to keep producing great videos, this is it.
In the worst case scenario, we can replace the day with some harstem when we really need our SC II fix. But maybe it's a great reminded to step back from the screen ourselves for a day.
You re doin fine lowko. never doubt yourself pls
Well, you keep telling us Lowko, Serral is dangerous if you let him get into the lategame. I guess rogue decided to take that to heart.
Rogue did confirm during the interview that he thinks Serral is better in lategame, and thats why he did cheese.
Yeah. He also told that about Dark plenty of times after smashing him. Rogue is just being nice and kind for the players he beats
That's a legitimately good point. If your opponent is the scariest lategame player in existence, then make sure the game never reaches lategame.
@@joshuakim5240 bullshit. Rogue already beaten serral 4-2 in the semi finals.
@@michawiercinski926
So a strategy to negate your opponent's strongest tactic is bullshit? Serral has a glaring weakness and Rogue exploited it like any RTS player should to win, since that's strategy in a nutshell.
Don't think that was the worst series at all. With respect to a macro-gameplay and tactics, yes. With respect to meta-gameplay and strategy, this series was gold.
gold league amirite
Dodging the overlord on that drone all in was so cool
I feel the same. Great stuff!
I agree and I am so hyped up to see how it changes the gamestyle of Serral. Personally I found him a bit boring, just defend and win eventually. But now he might have to rethink.
@@REDandBLUEandORANGE pretty standard on their level though
I dont think I've seen Serral get his ass handed to him like that ever. Impressive series by Rogue.
Eh....I think reynor and dark have done this a few times. Maybe maru. Serral just....he's so trash in non-macro games. Even when he tries to cheese, and he wins, it seems like there's always a hitch in his step like he has an aversion to early all ins or chaos.
Serral's ZvZ has always been incredibly weak in the early-game compared to other top Zerg players, he can just usually get away with it by trying to play defensively and winning with superior plays in the mid to late game. I feel like Serral just refused to adjust his playstyle in this series and was punished heavily for it. He's usually pretty good at surviving the early game in other matchups, but in ZvZ he really struggles by comparison.
@@colossaldonut5190 I'm not sure it's his early game that is weak, so much as his inability to adapt to unusual timings or anything unorthodox. I've seen him lose ZvZs where he clearly won the early game, but lost anyways because he didn't seem to be able to read the game after it devolved.
Especially against Reynor and Dark, he just doesn't seem to be able to handle a "chaotic" player, even if he pulls ahead slightly in the game.
I forget what series it was, but there was a series where Serral hard-countered Reynor's build 3 or 4 times but managed to lose half of the games anyways because Reynor would go for a base trade or aggression and Serral kind of froze.
@@2639theboss That's a fair assessment. Serral definitely seems to be way too rigid in his plays, especially in ZvZ. It's like he's gotten so good at knife fights that when his opponent brings something that isn't a knife, he doesn't know how to handle it.
If I was going to experience the Worst Grand Finals, you are the one caster I'd want to experience it with Lowko!
Lowko could cast paint drying and make it interesting.
on the surface the video just looks like cheese, but the mind games rogue created to trick serral into showing he's playing a macro build is next level
Yeah agreed. It’s actually very clever play.
beginning of starcraft 2 Meta : bad player play like silver today
Starcraft 2 years ago Meta : good player play like unreachable player
Starcraft 2 today new Meta : unreachable player play like silver
Can see this in Rogue vs Dark games in GSL. They are very fast games and probably the most high level games in terms of mind games. Serral has next to no experience in the way Rogue vs Dark games go.
On the surface it looks like cheese. On the inside it is cheese. But it worked.
Rouge was not playing the game, he was playing his opponent, well done ...
Marvelously stated!
Rogue pleases the Cheese god, but still.... lame.
"don't play the odds, play the man" - Harvey Specter
@@jantekjantek stop crying, fanboy. There was nothing lame in that.
people always forget this about Rogue. serral mechanically is probably #1 in the world, but he gets caught out at the highest level, so he seems to fall prey to mind games here and there over the course of a few years, He lost a series vs reynor in his i believe world championship run, where lambo showed about the hard switch to +1 roach from a fast spire using only like 2-4 muta, and sure enough joona fell for it,
how anyone could call this "the worst finals ever" is ridiculous. the meta mindgames on display by rogue here are absolutely next level.
yes we all love to watch a long macro game, but watching one of the best cheesers in the world pull off such perfectly considered and executed cheeses is a sight to behold as well. Starcraft would be boring if every game was a long macro game
we have a saying in our language: "your teeth's fillings could fall off" when your mouth is slack-opened in awe at such games!
Not really. We all picked out everything he did.
Seeing these players in any series that can be called "the worst".... *grabs popcorn*
Same , snacks and let's watch
Nothing happened
Man Rogue is an artist. Serral plays it safe and plays the same game over and over again. Can get boring watching Serral’s games. Much respect to both players but Rogue has significantly more creative plays.
This would only be the worst if the audience had no idea who these guys were.
But we do and already respect the hell out of them. So mind-game shenanigans come off as genuinely clever instead of pure BS.
The fact this is not only macro oriented but showing the bo and cutting corners impact makes it one of the most smart finals. Sure there is less show but damn ... this is some bo refinery.
"The WORST Grand Finals Ever"? I'd call it "The best" actually Rouge shows, you can play out of the box strategy and kill opponents easy. No boring every time same build. It was great show!
Yeah, and it's not like meta ZvZ is sooooo fun to watch. Clown ZvZ=best ZvZ
This is like two people getting into a fight. One of them drops into a solid looking boxing stance but the other just rips his shirt off, screams at the sky and charges.
You can't stop that level of crazy. Don't even try.
worst? that was highly entertaining. loved it
The mind games of rouge are OVER 9000
The amount of content that you've consistently pumped out for YEARS and YEARS boggles my mind man. If you want to take a break do it! You've built up a very loyal and loving following and I know that the vast majority of us respect you taking the time off that you need!!!
How is this worst? Serral got what was coming for him for being greedy. Very nice reading from rogue
Also, can't say that serral doesnt die to stupid stuff after this 😁
wrr
He didn’t die to stupid stuff. He lost to mind games.
@@jeremygardner3183 well according to lowko it seems to be stupid because he thinks it is the worst final. Neutral enjoys it but if people are serrals fan... They will say it is the worst because... They are salty asf
Rouge is living rent-free in Serrals head.
Rogue: I've already beaten this guy once today. I'll just rush him 4 times 4 different ways and win.
Serral: He wouldn't rush me *4* times in a row right!?! I mean this is a professional match worth $10,000 dollars.
>Best of 7
>16 minutes
Oh boy what shenanigans do we have here
that game 1 is literally every zvz ive played in the last 3 months in diamond :(
@lowko how can i win if even serral the GOAT loses to that BS :(
@@Sirmartinii try 14 pool
The best move is a winning move. Seems like he prepared specifically for the Serral encounter.
"Hi. Today I'm going to teach you how to speedrun Serral for free!"
It looks like Serral brought blueprints to a knife fight.
I appreciate how as a caster, basically your boss sent you home early with this series
Coming back to this, absolutely loved Serral in game one going "well theres twenty zerglings knocking on my front door, and all ive got are three queens. Best fire up five more drones :)"
Lowko used to say, Serral just does not die to stupid stuff.
The funny thing is he does die to stupid stuff on ladder too but just not reported by fan boys.
Rogue: Yo, Judge Judy is on in 15 minutes, I gotta make this quick!
Me before this video: I love watching these 2, how could it be bad
Me after this video: life is meaningless
First game is how i lose 99% of my games against zerg :')
This isn't the worst, it's the best. A grand display of how powerful cheese really is...and if it works, why make games go longer than a few minutes?
12:08 - no cancel. Ouch! :O
The video that starts with "you probably dont want to watch this video" is the first one that Ive felt compelled to comment on.
I love the games. Amazing play
Definitely a great final but in a different way.
Hey lowko I know you're from the Netherlands and all but still, it's spelled B-E-S-T, you've spelled it totally wrong! Seriously tho this is what all starcraft should be, it's so much better than doing the basic standard stuff over and over.
To be fair, if I were Serral or a player who's heavily invested in the notion of figuring out the perfect optimized build order that will always win (against people playing build orders that are similarly optimized) I'm sure I would be quietly furious and consider it cheating. But me, as a viewer? Please give us something new to watch, not the equivalent of 19th-century generals using stilted, artificial strategies based on "This is how we've always done it".
@@darkarima it's only "cheating" when someone breaks "your" rules -- never expect your opponent to play by your rules.
@@timq6224 Exactly, and very well-said.
Identical build orders harmed StarCraft II. Obviously some will have to relearn the basics.
That must really hurt for Serral
not really, Dark used to 4-0 Serral as well.
today's my birthday and I'm so glad I watched Lowko
my dude just wanted to go home real quick and eat a burrito
0:00 Oh, it's game 2.
2:19 Oh, it's an entire series of dumpster fires.
must have felt nice to cover the entire finals in one shorter than normal vid -- enjoy your xmas break!
"a spawning pool on 12, on the map with the longest rush distance"
Ahh, yes, but it's also the longest scout distance as well you see!
Hey Lowko, noticed you haven't posted many low level viewer submitted games in a while, any chance to get a cast of one of those soon? Absolutely love that stuff. Anyways, thanks for making the great content!
Lol i thought this was a map, not the entire thing
I am so sad right now, truly all the reasons i don't play starcraft 2 anymore in one video
Funny like at the end of this video Lowko is talking about IEM Katowice 2022 and then Serral plays Rogue there in Semifinals! :)))
Really glad you casted this. I'll miss the Wednesday uploads but I'd rather you do what's best for you. Thanks for being the best StarCraft creator out there!
"Dirty Zerg Players!" - Serral in ZvZ probably
DPGrogue comes into time travel machine, faces Serral.
- You know this tournament, TSL 8?
- Yeah, I'm about to face you in Grand Finals.
- Yeah... I'll beat you after 16 minutes.
- Interesting... And what will be the rest 3-6 games?
That was sad indeed...
Rogue: Where is my money!?
Serral: Yes.
Finally, some strategy in my strategy game!
I don't understand why Serral didn't scout more after he got back to back to back games of Rogue pulling non-standard plays. He wasn't losing for lack of skill, just lack of information and he made no adaptation to get more information - even if it's sub-optimal.
Oooooooooooor, he could have bilndly cheesed too so that way he either gets info during his early aggression or at least has the means to counter cheese with cheese if Rogue pulls out the cheese again.
I think Serral did get more info. Just happened that every time, it was info Rogue gave on purpose.
I was just thinking of asking, when you cast the longest game from a tournament, to also cast the shortest game, just to show the two different sides of the coin.
As someone who enjoys your fan submitted games, I found this fun to watch :)
Yes! Time for grand finals!
Gotta get some snacks out, a couple of beers and...it's over.
Regarding the worst finals, I think this one was not even half-bad, Rogue played Serral like a fiddle juts because of great tactical decisions and greed on his opponent's side. The worst finals mist be one of the countless PvZ against Serral or Rogue where Protoss got bulldozed despite playing on the same level. I really liked that after one of those matches during the interview even Rogue admitted that Broodlord-Infestor was broken. So, to sum it up, it was a very short Strategical win rather than a broken match-up.
I love this! Feels like a high steaks poker game
but what if you prefer chicken???
This fight more quicker than Woodley getting knocked out.
10000$ in roughly 15min? now that's some efficiency even germans dream about haha
I loved that series. Always fun to see people caught off guard.
Rogue's been watching too much BlyOnFire gameplay latelly... Good.
"Your boo's mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer."
Rogue after the finaly, propably.
I wish Serral does more cheese & especially blindcounters in the future.. probably hardly possible. But loosing point after point cause of cheese is very painfull to watch too :/.
Congratulations to Rogue!
what was painful was watching serral do the same losing strategy over and over -- he only one the one game because of the map size.
Is this an official speedrun of a Grand Final?
Rogue did everyone a favor by cutting this ZvZ Best of 7 series short.
Rogue is AMAZING, and he takes to his name and portrays it perfectly!
Great cast, Lowko!
Tittle was on point.
Latest metabolic boost I've ever seen from Serral in last game. Wonder if he saw the drone transfer and just assumed it'd be a normal game for once or if he panicked
Imagine winning 10k in roughly 30 minutes. smh. did his hand even break a sweat?
4k, because you are already guaranteed at least 6k for making the Grand Final.
@@tigera6 and how long did the grand final last?
Of course there were the other rounds played too. Plus... likely tens of thousands of hours practicing and playing to get good enough to win!
@@nathanstretch This particular series netted him 10k. Within 30 or so minutes. What's so controversial about that statement? Or inaccurate? Serral has racked up a large chunk of money over the years. Whats the point? They're both good, right? I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
@@jasonharter4876 I know, its still shitload of money for a super short time.
This was one of the best ZvZ's I have watched in a while. Mainly, because it was over so quickly.
Dont worry, Protoss just about killed the game. You won't see very man ZvZ's soon when the top 3 Zerg players move to other games.
This kinda reminds me of the PvP series of IEM Katowice 2014: sOs vs herO. It was a similar cheese-clown-fiesta and 1 guy completely outsmarting the other. But are we really surprised? Half or Rogues grand finals have been called the most boring finals ever. He just does that to people :D
Here you see passion vs obsession. Rogue's enthusiasm is glowing through. You can be the best only by being excited about what you are doing. If you don't have that, you just end up going through the motions like obsessed and you really leave yourself wide open for a proper strategy.
Rouge didn't even need that point advantage god damn.
Don't overwork yourself Lowko! however i love coming home to see you newest video everyday. i will watch pig on Mondays but your the only caster i watch essentially
The worst? I absolutely love when pros do the clever cheeses and dumb tactics! Super entertaining
A cheeky build order, actually for the third time in a ROWGE
Yellow vs Boxer GSL finals SC1 where boxer bunker rushed 3 times in a row and won within 10 minutes was the worst finals ever. Yellow was stubborn.
Serral looked like a noob playing against Rogue!
Maybe because StarCraft 2 is getting old at this point with (compared to StarCraft) worse balance track record? Or people don’t really expect grand final to last so short?
On second thought, it probably because people can’t appreciate the true fight under the surface and the mind game which people only with GM/Master 1 Level could understand and appreciate. Just like tassadar teaches Kerrigan to be unpredictable, Rouge, being unpredictable here, wins the tournament,
Most of people who complain are EU/Serral fan. They thought its "unfair" that Rogue doesnt play straight up macro, which is Serral strength. Basically if Serral win, its because hes GOAT, but if he loses, its because of opponent doing dirty play.
Ancient military wisdom: If it is stupid but works, it ain't stupid :D
Lowko: Serral is so good at ZvZ late game
Rogue: yah Lowko youre right, if its late game 😈
Lowko and Zerg cheese?! You son of a b****, I'm in!
Would you ever consider adding a big chunk of emptiness at the end of your tournament videos in order for people to not predict who the winner is? It's what I've seen a couple other casters do and I think it's a nice addition.
I still remember the games where rouge got cheesed by scarlett and lost 0:2 in like 5min? Here is he probably saying, lol, I can do that too...
So, Florencio is basically Has while drunk. And Rogue is basically Has, but on some good shit.
Korean SC2 is all unpredictability and mind-games. Perhaps the Europeans should take this more seriously.
Lowko your fans will always be here, take the time off
Could you cast the rogue vs maru from this serie? I saw one of thier matches from gere and it was AMAZAING
Grand finale ... 16 minutes in total ... and I thought Lowko did just upload one game of the series. :D
So, this is a little silly, but without a bit of an outro, your icon pops up right at the end anyway and totally spoiled me. I'm like, "Serral can claw back from this... Annnnd there's the channel icon. I guess not."
But yeah, you do you bro when it comes to your health. If you need time away from the screens, take it. I don't imagine you'll disappear on us.
Honestly, I think this is just funny af. I guess it makes sense, why play standard against the best standard player, you'll just lose.
if serral has arguably the best late game in the business, it would be foolish to allow him to get that far.
"cheesing not really working at the pro level"
I remember how three years ago, Serral once said something along the lines that Rogue was the only Korean player he even remotely feared playing against in the WCS finals.
Only ZvZ would have a Bo7 take under 20 minutes. Rogue pulled out everything in the French arsenal!
reminds me of when a human beat a computer in chess, it was by playing badly to confuse the computer. so Serral is basically a computer, although everybody knows that.
So that's what $10,000 dollars worth of cheese looks like.
Bo7 any% speedrun (WR)
this is 100 times better than a long macro game!!
if only all previous games are with brilliant quick strategies, i would have saved months if not years of my time in life watching replays. Anyway, execution was brilliant. Looks easy but not everyone can pull it off.