Delta wings put the centre of lift far back fro. The centre of mass. It makes the plane a big lever bar That means the aircraft is very stable at speed but to turn it has to 1st overcome that stability to enter the turn. This is why adding canards makes a big delta maneuverable: it forces the centre of lift to be further forwards. General rule of thumb, the further forward the bulk of the wing is the better she turns, hence the Zero
I probably shouldn't try to correct someone's factual errors online, because no one ever admits that they have no idea what they are talking about, but this is an egregious level of bullshitary. Everything the original poster said is absolutely false, and I challenge him to post a link to any academic or technical source that supports one shred of his claims.
@@ColeyCool38 yeah , other than a massive bomb load it could also have the ability to disable lock on capabilities toward the jet and mess up the thermal lock ons without flares
The F4 phantom had in Germany the names "Iron pig" and "flying Brick". I think that describes rather good how it could maneuver......its fact IRL too that the mig21 turns better.
@@cattigen6859 that's pretty lousy research then my man. Both the Air Force and Navy F4's had a 2:1 air combat K/D in Vietnam. Not only that, but the F4C does literally every single thing better than the Mig 21 other than stall speed. Literraly everything.
@@RemingtonSVK There's no fixing Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, ETC. Build a 40-foot wall, give them all small arms, and let them fight it out to in a winner takes all deathmatch. Let's see who's back Allah really has.
Honestly more excited about this than the Mach 2s. The only thing that would be more exciting than the jet flames would be an actually supersonic for Britain. Heck, I wouldn't even mind the Supermarine 545 which only has estimated performance. One was even built.
@@1000roentgens The Variant Present in Game has the Kilmov VK1 Engine. The Variants with the Afterburning engine, are: MiG17F, MiG-17PF. In short, The VK1 is not able to perform Afterburning, Excepting the Variants(of the MiG-17)With the Klimov VK1F Engine(variants wich are not present in-game)
You'll be interested to know that the roll rate is the only accurate part of this plane's flight model. All the stats in the game are based off a report the UK made after an accident in a faulty plane caused a wing rip and from then on all speeds and turns were limited as policy despite the plane's ability to go much faster and turn far more tightly. The jav needs a buff ASAP.
Yes the british tree is suffering from mach capable jets. However i feel like its a great tree because they aren't rushing it. F100 straight to F4C is rush.
one of the advantage of the delta wing it's is roll rate, this is why the french use it so much. excellent roll rate, a lot a space for fuel and it's strong for high speed normally. and for the turn rate, you need a air flow around the low side AND the up side of the wing for making a good lift, if not it's a stall
Gonna right this down here and now; I'm predidcitng that the F-14 will be added before an expansion to the BR ratings, making the Phantom and the Tomcat the same BR...
The turn rate depends a lot on the center of gravity of the plane. Very simplified explanation : - If the center of gravity is more in the front (civilian airplanes, propeler driven airplanes...), the plane will have a bad turn rate and most likely less responding commands but will be very stable, hard to stall and will not loose much energy during turns. - if the center of gravity is in the back (modern fighters), the plane is EXTREMELY maneuverable, but you are unable to fly it without computer assistance (every move you make with the stick is amplified more and more until you'd crash). This is how Sukhois can make the Cobra maneuver for example. Regarding the roll rate (there is a formula to determine it) it mostly depend on the wingspan (shorter = faster), the size of the ailerons and your airspeed.
@@Gabriel-yd4bq Yes the Su-27-30-35 etc are all built to be aerodynamically unstable so the computers make constant corrections to keep you from crashing unlike the MiG-29 which is aerodynamically stable and uses whats known as a lifting body design both under the right circumstances make the aircraft very maneuverable if its designed for it.
@@Gabriel-yd4bq Fly by wire doesn't make the plane more maneuverable, I'm pretty sure all modern fighters use fly by wire. The thing that makes it so agile is the design of the aircraft itself. Also, all modern fighters are very _unstable_ Sukhois especially, that's what makes threm so agile and able to do the cobra. The downside of this is that pulling any sharp turns raises the angle of attack so much that it effectively tuns the entire plane into a giant air brake. So after just a few sharp turns the plane will be extremely slow. So it's both a pro and a con. The US experimented with supermanuverable aircraft, and decided against them in favour of keeping speed high during combat. The Russians obviously thought that it was worth it.
@@Sir_Budginton it's mostly due To the Differences Between Military Doctrines, basically the same reason for why the US is investing in* VTOL Technology(F35C Lightning II) While the Russians Gave up on their VTOL Program and are Rellying on Conventional Navy Fighters to conduct ops on Aircraft Carriers (Su-33 or MiG 29K)
Nope sorry, Mig 21 is a hi speed interceptor just like the F104, its a missile launcher (despite Kelly Johnson's supreme line of bullshit) not a dogfighter, the Phantom is a big heavy 'does it all a bit' aircraft which struggled with Mig 17's and 19's which are dogfighters. But when turning and burning with 21's (assuming the phantoms managed to get the 21's to slow down from the NV sop of hi speed missile attacks under radar fighter control) things were a little more equal, bear in mind though both F4 and the 21 were not up to much below 450 knots particularly the 21. interestingly the Navy F8's were more successful with the 17's and 19's because they were more optimised for dogfighting and had 4 colt 20mm built in too.
@@alan-sk7ky There was a joke here in germanys airforce about the Phantom: "It is the proof of the americans that even a brick can fly if just the engines are strong enough." And it was called "Eisenschwein"→Iron pig. Just saying
@@espe1317 Ziegelstein or brick is another one haha! Its a little easier to pronounce hehe! Here in the US we called it 'spook', 'old smoky' and the 'lead sled' My favorite though is "the worlds largest distributor of MiG parts". lol
Straight wings (like on the P-59A) Generate more lift and are better for manueverability especially at low speed. Delta wings (like on the Javelin) are best for achieving high speeds. Hope this helps
@@monokendo They can help you achieve high altitude faster via greater top speed and rate of climb, but aren't strictly required for high altitude flight
Mono Kendo The issue is that Delta wings are a bit too stable. They don’t try and throw you into a flat spin, but raw Delta wings make it hard to overcome that stability and turn
To answer the thing about the roll rate. You see the rows of little sharp things sticking out of the top surface of the wing ahead of the ailerons? They're vortex generators, specifically to re-engergise the stagnant airflow that pool at the tips of a swept wing, which helps keep the airflow over the ailerons moving and attached to the wing, so you have huge ailerons with very useful, energised air flowing over them. Hence keeping them very, very effective.
Yep, like Ben Grogan said. Lots of stability in the aircraft. Same reason an arrow flies straight. All the 'lift' is at the back of the arrow, do it won't turn. If they extended the tail boom and put a better tail on the Jav, it would turn better. (Look at how tiny the actual elevator surface is compared to the wing. Both elevators could fit onto a flap surface. Whereas the tailplane is huge, causing even more stability in a straight line.)
Is due to where the push of the plane is generated, the p51 generates its inertia from the front, making it more maneuverable as in a turn the greater air resistance is in the wings making the turn much easier. In the case of most jet fighters (delta wing ones) the lift is generated from the back as the elevators, thus it splint of gravity, inertia and where the elevators are situated make the turns less sharp, planes as the EF 2000 fight that by using canards
Speed bleeding in the jav's turns is caused by the delta wing creating vortexes on the leading edge of the wing which delay stall departure, creating a higher angle of attack for a given lift coefficient meaning greater lift induced drag and thus more speed loss. Similar effect on very swept wings like the Mig 19 and its why aircraft like sabres and Hunters hold speed much better in turns. The actial bad turn is more a gimped flight model but is partially down to the high tail placement which causes it to be in the wash of the wing airflow.
I watched a video on UA-cam a while ago and the guy was saying that jets with a tail wing above the height of the forward wings has better stability = less ability to pitch. There’s also other factors like the centre of rotation (or centre of pitch) that all affect airflow and the planes ability to pitch. Bigger wing doesn’t necessarily mean faster pitch.
Rolls well because it has vortex generators over the ailerons. They delay the separation of laminar flow over the portion of the wing that they’re added too, thus having more pressure on those control surfaces. More pressure, better roll rate.
I'm gonna go out on limb and say that the big fatty wings on the javelin are able to use their big fatty lift to roll the thing as fast as it does. And all that lift is there to help with pitch, but the elevators themselves are kinda small so they aren't going to be able to apply much force. The other deltas usually have elevons that vector the massive lift for turning, but with the javelin, you're basically using the baby wing that is the elevator and stab for all of the pitch forces
Ey Phly, you should make pinned posts on each of your videos for people to put in their challenges/requests, I'm tired of 75% of the comments on your video always being people making challenge # 1000 in a row.
Preach! "#37271 sNeEki brEeKi take captured tank with enemy camo and see how long it takes for them to find you XDDDDD" He would have fkin done it already if it was doable/worth it. Stop spam and comment on the vehicle in the video, or about anything in the video. Requests on the discord or a pinned thread.
@@Y.M... PAIN CHALLENGE: Play archer with HE ONLY without GOING IN REVERSE. I swear where's the fun in these? I'm not here to watch Phly suffer for 10 mins I already suffer everytime I play this game.
Im guessing here but I think the problem with your turn is it's not actually a Delta wing. Your horizontal stab is mounted over your vertical, opposite to a traditional aircraft but with the same effect. So the point is your elevator is on your tiny horizontal stab with very little surface area. It doesn't have elevons like a Delta wing. It does, however, have massively large ailerons which is why it rolls so well.
@PhlyDaily: Why the Javelin did not fly very well: it all has to do with *Aerodynamic Balance!* Had the Javelin had a space between Engines, much like an *F-14 Tomcat* (even without having a Swingwing), and a Lengthened Fusilage, and (my own favorite) *Active Forward Canards* you'd have seen the Javelin become spectacular!
There is a reason why the Firestreaks have a large amount of explosive mass, they had a proximity infrared detonation not contact (just another thing that is broken on the Jav). They really need to fix it should they ever add in the EE Lightning.
they are proxy fuse with 10m range (2x 5m of Sidewinder's), only some high tier Russian also get 10m, but at the same time lower tier AAM get pathetic 3m proxy fuse.
Yes Bunji, flaps have a limit on the speed they can be safely deployed. Sometimes, that limit is not just about structural failure, it can also be limited by the change in lift and drag that could cause stability problems if they are deployed outside the speed limits. Obviously, small flap settings have higher speed limits than high flap settings like landing.
I do believe the further away the tail is from the wings center of lift the better it turns, because the force the tail push with is mangified by the arm (the distance to the pivoting point) the javelins wings are swept back so the wings most likely has the center of lift quite far back so even that huge tail just can´t produce enough force because of the lacking distance. I have no clue how flying wings work though like the me 163 or ho 229 which dosn´t have a tail at all
Ben Grogan's comment on the delta style changing the center of mass explains pitch. the wings look symmetrical, which is used more for acrobatic aircraft, that wing type does not provide alot of lift, un-like asymmetrical which provides better lift. So symmetrical delta wing means pitch meh, roll gud.
After looking over the design blueprints of the Gloster Javelin it seems that despite that large wing there are no leading edge slats, this greatly helps turn performance especially at lower speeds which the Javelin typically flies at, it's wing structure seems to cater more to stability than turning.
More surface area also means more drag, the balance you want is enough lift but also manageable drag at lower speeds otherwise you need more power to offset drag
It probably needs a flying tail like the latter F-86 to be able to turn tightly. And at those tight turns and high-angle angles of attack would maintain lift.
To answer your query about the javelin's flight performance. It's really about wing loading, not lift. And yes, the javelin shoulda been hella responsive to elevator inputs and slow on rolling. I didn't do much digging, but usually on planes with a T-tail empennage the plane can be tricky to fly at high angles of attack and at low speeds. Maybe it just suffers from a bad case of compression?
It's because high alpha manouvres introduce dirty air flow to the elevators. When I say high alpha, I mean 15deg up on landing close to stall kinda stuff, pulling back on the elevator at 800km/h won't. The high tail should also be better at pulling up due to it's longer lever around the CoG than a conventional low tail design, assuming the lateral distance is the same. I'm extremely tempted to do a proper CFD of the aircraft to wipe in Gaijin's face...
the center of mass is far ahead of the center of lift in the large delta wing, the Fantasy aircraft, look at where the center of mass looks like compared to how far forward the wings are
Centre of lift is far back and the elevators are tiny, hence the slow turn. Vulcan is agile because that had huge elevators, and the wing is just on another scale I think
the whole point of a stabilizer is to *drum roll please* stabilize the plane. So when you have a huge stabilizer then that probably means its going to help keep the plane pretty stable, and when you roll, pitch, and yaw the planes stabilizer is there to help counteract the unstabilization that rolling/pitching/yawing does to the plane rendering it less maneuverable in flight. At least thats how I remember the whole point of stabilizer and the wing size are supposed to work
If I remember correctly the elevator had a very small angle variation, 1.5 degrees I think, meaning it couldn’t turn at all. It was a flaw in the design of the tail. It’s been 5+ years since I researched it for a school project so I’m a little foggy on the details.
It's much less about how much lift the wing makes and more about the leverage provided by the tail. Think of it like a seesaw. The farther back the tail surfaces are, like on the 59, the better it turns, where as with the javelin, the tail surfaces are quite close to the center of mass and therefore have less torque which equals less turning
rolls well because the ailerons take up literally half of the width of the plane and the amount of air being directed over the wings cant pitch well because the elevators are so high up compared to the main wings
The Gloster Javelin was used in air combat during the Borneo Confrontation from 1962-66. Sources suggest that an Indonesian Air Force C-130 was shot down by a Javelin and that other kills scored against Indonesian aircraft went unclaimed to keep from inflaming the situation. This is also why it was called a "confrontation" instead of a conflict or a war.
Phly, you are right. The rate of turning depends on a lot of factors, one of them being your lift:thrust ratio. If you are really fast but have little wingspan and/or control authority, turning will be hard as you have a lot of inertia to overcome. As a rule of thumb, the higher you lift is compared to your thrust, the less inertia it will have to overcome to turn, as the lift generated is also pushing in the direction of your turn.
(not a engineer...yet ) but the reason looks like to me is the ratio between wings and flap leans too far to the wing side so the front of the wing gets in the way when it tries to turn
phly been a long time fan. still look for you on the battlefield.. if your wondering why the plane will not turn at supersonic speeds is that The sound barrier or sonic barrier is the sudden increase in aerodynamic drag and other undesirable effects experienced by an aircraft or other object when it approaches the speed of sound. When aircraft first began to be able to reach close to the speed of sound, ... These difficulties represented a barrier to flying at faster speeds. hence the faster your go the more drag and harder it will be to turn. There is a video of Chuck Yeager explaining this, its always on the history channel when this topic comes up
Long wing creates problems with air "ripping" off surface at higher speeds. So large wing can give you amazing turn in lower speeds , but at high speeds like diving it can LOSE airlift.
Basically, a delta wing generates lots of lift, is extremely stable at high speeds (supersonic or approaching supersonic) and offers a good compromise between high speed stability and low speed performance. It does, however, generate a LOT of drag, meaning that it will roll better than it turns, especially at high subsonic and supersonic speeds. Early generation supersonic and high subsonic fighters had reputations for being very unstable. Unstable = maneuverable in the combat world which is good, but when you don't have a computer auto correcting the airframe's desire to do backflips across the stratosphere because your merely human meat-body cannot detect or correct such events fast enough, then instability = bad. Thus designers tinkered with multiple designs that focused on stability at extremely high (for that era) speeds while still offering a modicum of low speed performance. The Javelin is one of those aircraft. Benefits of a delta wing: -Due to the large root chord, a delta wing combines low relative wing thickness with a sufficiently thick wing spar for a lightweight structure. Since a low relative thickness keeps wave drag down (a drag component which occurs only in supersonic flow), this makes delta wings especially attractive for supersonic aircraft. -The large root chord gives the delta wing a high internal fuel volume even at a low relative thickness. -The large root chord also provides it with a large surface area which helps to bring the minimum speed of the aircraft down. -With sufficient leading edge sweep, a delta wing produces vortex lift, so flow separation can be turned into a means of increasing lift. -A delta wing is naturally stable in pitch, therefore it does not require a separate tail surface. Drawbacks of a delta wing: -The large wing area causes more viscous drag for the same amount of lift compared to a high aspect ratio wing. Swept wings have a better lift-to-drag ratio (L/D) than delta wings. -High-lift devices like fowler flaps are hard to integrate into delta wings. The higher relative thickness of regular airliner wings allows to integrate large flaps more easily, and the rearward location of the trailing edge of a delta wing will produce intolerable pitching moments if such flaps would be deflected. Generally, the moderately swept high aspect ratio wings of subsonic airliners (for example) are ideal for flight at high subsonic Mach numbers. Delta wings are superior only in supersonic flight, and due to their good low speed characteristics they offer the best overall compromise for supersonic aircraft. Take for example the North American XB-70, a classical delta wing design. Note that the the canard wing, which has little sweep and a low aspect ratio is ideal for supersonic flight, provided it has a low relative thickness. The main wing of the XB-70 is a delta wing to keep the take-off and landing speeds relatively low and offers the best compromise of low and high speed characteristics. Also, the wing tips could be deflected downwards to improve directional stability at supersonic speed and to improve L/D (Lift to Drag Ratio) by using the waverider effect.
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An interceptor aircraft, or simply interceptor, is a type of fighter aircraft designed specifically for point defense interception role against an attacking enemy aircraft, particularly bombers and reconnaissance aircraft, as they approach. Javelin is an interceptor, does not need big agility, it needs speed, climb rate, fire power. It is not build for dog fight with fighters or other agile fastmovers.
It depends on the type of interceptor as well, though. During wwii, generally Fighter-interceptors were preferred by the axis in 44 and 45, as the escort fighters meant that the interest pros needed to be able to at least avoid getting killed by the fighters too fast Javelin is an all weather interceptor meant to sniff out bombers and kill them, rather than to quickly scramble and take out a fireball above the airbase
5 років тому
@@spindash64 yes. In general Javelin has a one main job : fast take off, find high altitude bombers and take them out with one, fast, deadly strike avoiding counter action, avoiding risk. Perfect construction for that.
Well yeah Phly, the MiG 21 was a better turn fighter than the F-4. Realistically speaking the F-4’s only advantages was its payload and straight line speed.
Phly play Naval Battels again theres so much more stuff since u havent played it like Heavy Cruisers. Long Lance torpedos. They are even adding the Admiral Hipper and the Mogami in Update 1.91 .
@@sniper321fire yea the same for me thats why Phly should play more Naval. Because he inspires many people to play a specific vehicel and he is the biggest WT UA-camr.
@@skeletorlord621 kind of ships suck at getting RP I'm a Xbox player so i have USS Bennion and finally got somers this morning after grinding all yesterday and day before probably 50 plus games for 75k RP RP and SL gain sucks
@@skeletorlord621 People won't play Naval Battles when World of Warships is much better in the naval gameplay. Gaijin basically butchered up gameplay when they didn't directly go for some of the largest ships and how the tech trees have been implemented doesn't help it either. A lot of people don't want to play these small river patrol boats. Phly can play as much naval as he/you wants, but it won't make a difference considering the large grind to get to anything that people like.
Phly it has a big horizontal stabilizer but the elevators are actually pretty small. Today's fighters don't even use separate elevators. The entire horizontal stabilizer moves.
physics, delta wing aircraft are really good at high speeds, but less deliverable during turns, i can explain the physics but its 3 am and i just finished work but , but if you look at aircraft designed to cut through the air , you have examples of the f-16 or the su-27 they are designed with that in mind, but you apply a lot of drag on a big surface you would see it would be hard to turn it,
Delta wings are good for going in a straight line very fast as they have very little drag for a huge lift and are much easier to make stronger than a regular wing and so can survive faster speeds. However when turning, the massive wing is then hitting a lot more air than a regular wing and so fights the turn more than a regular wing with the same area of control surfaces. The things I've seen some people say about the centre of lift being behind the centre of mass as a reason of this inability to turn, while true, only works if it is a very small delta wing, but this delta wing is beg enough compared to the plane that it still make the plane unstable like a su-27 just the wrong side and so hardly affects it compared to the reason I stated above. Also canards are used just because they add more control surfaces and they look really cool. This is shown in the difference between modern American and European fighters. America favours regular wings as they are more fuel efficient and better in a dog fight, however if Russia was to send a bomber to a European country they would have a lot less time to respond and so just want to reach the bomber as fast as possible, due to the fact everything being closer to Russia and so there would be less time to intercept from when the Russian bomber takes to when it reaches the target than America would have as America is further away so they have the luxury of having a MUCH longer intercept time than Europe.
That T tail is part of the issue. Makes it very stable, but its position gives it poor leverage and it fights against the aircraft's natural tendencies
He's a whiny UA-camr. Can't expect any more from him. Let's not forget refusing to shoot am enemy plane to show off how long his lock takes, while it shooting down his teammates. Or refusing to shoot an enemy because he's flying a plane Phly likes. Again, while it shoots down his teammates. He's a crap teammate showing off for his audience and if I spawned into a game with him I'd team kill him instantly.
I think the reason why it doesn’t turn well is because the only elevators are on the tail. Look at how small they are compared to to the ailerons on the delta wing. - which is why it rolls fast. - and turns slow-
1. Not enough flaps on the inner wing. 2. Same With ailerons 3. If ailerons were mounted mid rudder or lower,and the whole thing was fully hydraulic like the F4 she would be a beast... Sort of like the Typhoon or Firefighter's older brother...
I feel like if they modeled the planes right yes the mig 21 will be able to out maneuver the phantom but the Phantom has a huge advantage in weapons and its overall power
Phly i think that in order to maneuvre well with delta wing it needs to be undisturbed by non other than canards and not elevators so the tail elevators fuck up the manuvrability but ots done in order to not over g it
The Javelin never was the plane it was supposed to be . ITs final version as shown in the game the FWA 9 did have afterburners but these were not like later engines, these were an add on and were an attempt to improve the planes limited high speed. The Fire Streak was a tail chasing bomber killer hence the big warhead. Hopefully if we get eh Lightning F2A or F6 we will get the Red Top all aspect missile as well as two 30mm Adens. Having 4 of these on the Javelin is a lot of firepower. There are a huge number of really fun "What if", british jets from this period or just after that would be really fun in this game.
I wonder if the fact that F4 needs the centrally mounted pod could bridge the performance gap between it and mig21. Remember, 21 gun is built it. It might be only 60 rounds, but with trigger discipline 10-15 will be enough to get a kill. So, mig21+missiles performance might not be far off from F4 with a gunpod+missiles. And notice how Gaijin now corrected F4 will only mount max 8x1000lbs - the last 3 from initial 11 would be mounted centrally. And the plane needs some sort of armament stock, so I think the middle pod will be reserved for gunpod only, maybe at least initially? Either way, If there will be no way to mount JUST the AA missiles, then the performance gap to mig21 will be reduces thanks to the pod. Once the missiles are out, the pod is still there causing drag (and it's a massive pod). And if mig21 pilot decides to go all in, and take no other armement, just rely on the gun - we might see some very interesting performance situations. Of course, F4 being fighter-bomber, will definitely not suffer much even if mig21 turns out superior due to the pod drag, because it will be EXCEPTIONAL at bombing bases and destroying ground targets. We shall see what China mig21s will bring to the table as well - they have a history of taking soviet/russian designs and producing superior versions. Balance dynamics at the top will be interesting. RIP Brits tho.
So, phly, phan of the channel, and one of the things that helps a plane turn well is the elevator size and the back. And the thing that helps roll is the ailerons on the main lift wings. So this plane kinda makes sense viewed throigh that lens
Not at 800km/h it shouldn't,that's the whole reason why the elevator is positioned as it is: to keep it out of the dirty air flow generated by the large wing.
Hey Phly the Javelin is probably pretty heavy meaning it has a greater wing loading per square foot of wing area than the phantasy jet. Also the elevator looks a bit close to CG reducing its effectiveness.
simple mach 1 is around 1200 km/h your pushing 900. That's not intended combat speeds hence why you loose alot of turning control. it was also designed as an bomber/fighter interceptor not really a dog fighting type jet. Meant to do what you were doing. Blast off from the runway, approach the enemy quickly and take them out before they know you're there.
Don't know about the handling, but like the hunter, the wings are too weak. Both jets what recorded going supersonic in dives at low altitude. The javelin made the news for doing it over a city. In WT that snap before they get close.
The MiG-21 should have a smaller turning radius, but the F-4 should have a faster turn rate. Meaning, the MiG may complete a smaller circle, but the F-4 should complete a bigger circle, faster. It's pretty complicated, but the F-4 shouldn't have an issue dealing with the MiG in a turn fight, if the pilot knows what he's doing of course.
*LIVE NOW* www.twitch.tv/phlydaily
FIRST
@@TehTechExpertYOU MEAN PHIRST
Phly you dont have a hair on ur ass!
Should do the R.91 YS, before 1.91
Hey Phly can you play the Type 16 please! Attempt #31
Delta wings put the centre of lift far back fro. The centre of mass.
It makes the plane a big lever bar
That means the aircraft is very stable at speed but to turn it has to 1st overcome that stability to enter the turn.
This is why adding canards makes a big delta maneuverable: it forces the centre of lift to be further forwards.
General rule of thumb, the further forward the bulk of the wing is the better she turns, hence the Zero
Thank you, i will certainly use this in Simple Planes
also it has a tiny tail with small elevators
@@rjcoady21 Gaijin states that despite what we see all flying tail is implemented...
I probably shouldn't try to correct someone's factual errors online, because no one ever admits that they have no idea what they are talking about, but this is an egregious level of bullshitary. Everything the original poster said is absolutely false, and I challenge him to post a link to any academic or technical source that supports one shred of his claims.
Holy shit that explains why most of my delta wing planes in ksp have canards
Btw about the afterburners, yes we need blue and purple BUT also REMOVE the GOD DAMN flames from the NON afterburned engines like the sabres
Wait for the update
Amen!
They just did
Desert Fox Gaming what do you mean? Like they just updated and got rid of them for the sub sonic jets?
densup yeah watch the 1.91 stream
I like the Javalin. It kinda looks like a mini Vulcan.
I’ll be shocked if the Vulcan doesn’t come to war thunder , we got a Canberra surely a Vulcan can make it to the game
It does lol
@@redhed5309 was thinking about that the other day. Would be sweet also with its electronic warfare systems.
@@ColeyCool38 yeah , other than a massive bomb load it could also have the ability to disable lock on capabilities toward the jet and mess up the thermal lock ons without flares
@@redhed5309 have u heard before that vulcans nuked USA twice because of its electric warfare systems xD training exercises ofc
That feeling when China gets 2 new supersonic jets before Britain gets any
;(
Are you racist?
Uk always screwed in wt :P
Lmao racist
YoU ArE SuCh a RaCiSt
The F4 phantom had in Germany the names "Iron pig" and "flying Brick". I think that describes rather good how it could maneuver......its fact IRL too that the mig21 turns better.
Espe131 the kill ratios confirm this too
@@cattigen6859 Vietnam farmers were flying it so it doesn't show a real picture.
NiDz3 mig-21 from the research had a positive kill ratio during Vietnam and the phantoms didn’t 🤷🏿♀️
Cattigen
It was also a matter of lousy tactics as well thanks to bureaucrats
@@cattigen6859 that's pretty lousy research then my man. Both the Air Force and Navy F4's had a 2:1 air combat K/D in Vietnam. Not only that, but the F4C does literally every single thing better than the Mig 21 other than stall speed. Literraly everything.
Almost 800K mate. feels like ages! Congrats Phly !
pls, before commenting, fix Iraq first, thx.
@@RemingtonSVK There's no fixing Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, ETC. Build a 40-foot wall, give them all small arms, and let them fight it out to in a winner takes all deathmatch. Let's see who's back Allah really has.
@@everydayhero5076 or cough cough nuke them cough cough or i mean um Give them money so they can go to Sweden and r@pe some more here :)
EveryDayHero isn’t this basically what’s already happening except the wall part
Hello there
THEY EVEN REMOVED THE UN-REALISTIC JET EXHAUST FLAMES WHEN NOT USING AFTERBURNER!!!
Honestly more excited about this than the Mach 2s. The only thing that would be more exciting than the jet flames would be an actually supersonic for Britain. Heck, I wouldn't even mind the Supermarine 545 which only has estimated performance. One was even built.
@@MH-km8ik indeed.
No way!!!!! Fr? I’m so excited and happy they’ve done this. Thank you for letting me know bro ❤️
I don’t have jets with afterburners unless the MiG-15Bis ISH has afterburners. Doesn’t mig17 have afterburners tho?
@@1000roentgens The Variant Present in Game has the Kilmov VK1 Engine. The Variants with the Afterburning engine, are: MiG17F, MiG-17PF. In short, The VK1 is not able to perform Afterburning, Excepting the Variants(of the MiG-17)With the Klimov VK1F Engine(variants wich are not present in-game)
You'll be interested to know that the roll rate is the only accurate part of this plane's flight model. All the stats in the game are based off a report the UK made after an accident in a faulty plane caused a wing rip and from then on all speeds and turns were limited as policy despite the plane's ability to go much faster and turn far more tightly. The jav needs a buff ASAP.
this plane in game is shocking and a pain to phly
They need to add the English Electric Lightning for British line to counter the Mig 21 and Phantom.
Yes the british tree is suffering from mach capable jets. However i feel like its a great tree because they aren't rushing it. F100 straight to F4C is rush.
Yes Britain got the FGR.2 but, they should've got a real British plane such as the EEL, but not a licensed plane
@@desertfalcon1539 we made it we got the EEL, but seems kinda meh like the javelin
Doooont known if you know this. I totallly didn’t realize this, but they did add it
@@mvple743 sad thing is, it doesnt counter the migs or phantoms xD
one of the advantage of the delta wing it's is roll rate, this is why the french use it so much.
excellent roll rate, a lot a space for fuel and it's strong for high speed normally.
and for the turn rate, you need a air flow around the low side AND the up side of the wing for making a good lift, if not it's a stall
Speaking of wings, i cannot wait for the swedish tree with the Draken jet, it's so fucking beautiful
12:35 Phly: I - I hate NIGHT BATTLES ; Their all coarse, and rough, and irritating. And it gets everywhere.
Except in tank battle where you can use your machine guns the laser targets lol
The F4 is all well and good. But what i wanna see is the F8 Crusader
how about the English electric lightning :D
@@theongothic182 lets get the harrier as well. even out the playing field against the f-4 and mig 21
@@mobiusnorthwind560 oh nvm the electric lighting is confirmed
@@theongothic182 wait wat? how do u know?
@@treygrier5080 they confrimed it during the dev stream. they say will come really soon!
Plot twist: F-4C gets the Wild Weasel upgrade package.
MZ4Frost sams *nervous sweating*
Desert Fox Gaming well they were gonna add it sooner or later
@@The_Irish_Fox Can we get the F3D electronic warfare version?
That's the premium one...
Gonna right this down here and now; I'm predidcitng that the F-14 will be added before an expansion to the BR ratings, making the Phantom and the Tomcat the same BR...
Hit the nail on the head with this one
The turn rate depends a lot on the center of gravity of the plane. Very simplified explanation :
- If the center of gravity is more in the front (civilian airplanes, propeler driven airplanes...), the plane will have a bad turn rate and most likely less responding commands but will be very stable, hard to stall and will not loose much energy during turns.
- if the center of gravity is in the back (modern fighters), the plane is EXTREMELY maneuverable, but you are unable to fly it without computer assistance (every move you make with the stick is amplified more and more until you'd crash). This is how Sukhois can make the Cobra maneuver for example.
Regarding the roll rate (there is a formula to determine it) it mostly depend on the wingspan (shorter = faster), the size of the ailerons and your airspeed.
So the sukhois use fly by wire to have more stability and power on the turns? If yes, can this be used in simple planes?
Also, do you have any sources on how to do the Pugachev's kobra maneuver?
@@Gabriel-yd4bq Yes the Su-27-30-35 etc are all built to be aerodynamically unstable so the computers make constant corrections to keep you from crashing unlike the MiG-29 which is aerodynamically stable and uses whats known as a lifting body design both under the right circumstances make the aircraft very maneuverable if its designed for it.
@@Gabriel-yd4bq Fly by wire doesn't make the plane more maneuverable, I'm pretty sure all modern fighters use fly by wire. The thing that makes it so agile is the design of the aircraft itself. Also, all modern fighters are very _unstable_ Sukhois especially, that's what makes threm so agile and able to do the cobra.
The downside of this is that pulling any sharp turns raises the angle of attack so much that it effectively tuns the entire plane into a giant air brake. So after just a few sharp turns the plane will be extremely slow.
So it's both a pro and a con. The US experimented with supermanuverable aircraft, and decided against them in favour of keeping speed high during combat. The Russians obviously thought that it was worth it.
@@Sir_Budginton it's mostly due To the Differences Between Military Doctrines, basically the same reason for why the US is investing in* VTOL Technology(F35C Lightning II) While the Russians Gave up on their VTOL Program and are Rellying on Conventional Navy Fighters to conduct ops on Aircraft Carriers (Su-33 or MiG 29K)
play the german floating square SF-40 Swhatever its called (with the 88s)
UMG flak barge
"I have a feeling that the MiG-21 will be more maneuverable"
Whys that? Because that's what was exactly shown in Vietnam?
Nope sorry, Mig 21 is a hi speed interceptor just like the F104, its a missile launcher (despite Kelly Johnson's supreme line of bullshit) not a dogfighter, the Phantom is a big heavy 'does it all a bit' aircraft which struggled with Mig 17's and 19's which are dogfighters. But when turning and burning with 21's (assuming the phantoms managed to get the 21's to slow down from the NV sop of hi speed missile attacks under radar fighter control) things were a little more equal, bear in mind though both F4 and the 21 were not up to much below 450 knots particularly the 21. interestingly the Navy F8's were more successful with the 17's and 19's because they were more optimised for dogfighting and had 4 colt 20mm built in too.
@@alan-sk7ky There was a joke here in germanys airforce about the Phantom: "It is the proof of the americans that even a brick can fly if just the engines are strong enough."
And it was called "Eisenschwein"→Iron pig.
Just saying
@@espe1317 Yep! They also called it the Luftverteidigungsdiesel. Aka Air Defense Diesel. Try saying that 3 times fast!
@@georgearrivals no Problem cuz i am german :D
@@espe1317 Ziegelstein or brick is another one haha! Its a little easier to pronounce hehe! Here in the US we called it 'spook', 'old smoky' and the 'lead sled' My favorite though is "the worlds largest distributor of MiG parts". lol
Straight wings (like on the P-59A) Generate more lift and are better for manueverability especially at low speed. Delta wings (like on the Javelin) are best for achieving high speeds. Hope this helps
Delta wings are for high alt too right?
@@monokendo They can help you achieve high altitude faster via greater top speed and rate of climb, but aren't strictly required for high altitude flight
@@stormhawk4277 thanks
Mono Kendo
The issue is that Delta wings are a bit too stable. They don’t try and throw you into a flat spin, but raw Delta wings make it hard to overcome that stability and turn
To answer the thing about the roll rate. You see the rows of little sharp things sticking out of the top surface of the wing ahead of the ailerons? They're vortex generators, specifically to re-engergise the stagnant airflow that pool at the tips of a swept wing, which helps keep the airflow over the ailerons moving and attached to the wing, so you have huge ailerons with very useful, energised air flowing over them. Hence keeping them very, very effective.
My grandfather flew the Javelin back in his days as a Flight Lt. truly is a wonderful aircraft and thanks for showing some gameplay with it!
F4's shot down 100+ Mig 21's in Vietnam.
After 1972 the kill rate was 5.5 to 1 for the USAF and 6.4 to one the USN.
A large part of that was pilot quality and training.
Yep, like Ben Grogan said. Lots of stability in the aircraft. Same reason an arrow flies straight. All the 'lift' is at the back of the arrow, do it won't turn. If they extended the tail boom and put a better tail on the Jav, it would turn better. (Look at how tiny the actual elevator surface is compared to the wing. Both elevators could fit onto a flap surface. Whereas the tailplane is huge, causing even more stability in a straight line.)
Is due to where the push of the plane is generated, the p51 generates its inertia from the front, making it more maneuverable as in a turn the greater air resistance is in the wings making the turn much easier. In the case of most jet fighters (delta wing ones) the lift is generated from the back as the elevators, thus it splint of gravity, inertia and where the elevators are situated make the turns less sharp, planes as the EF 2000 fight that by using canards
Speed bleeding in the jav's turns is caused by the delta wing creating vortexes on the leading edge of the wing which delay stall departure, creating a higher angle of attack for a given lift coefficient meaning greater lift induced drag and thus more speed loss. Similar effect on very swept wings like the Mig 19 and its why aircraft like sabres and Hunters hold speed much better in turns.
The actial bad turn is more a gimped flight model but is partially down to the high tail placement which causes it to be in the wash of the wing airflow.
I watched a video on UA-cam a while ago and the guy was saying that jets with a tail wing above the height of the forward wings has better stability = less ability to pitch.
There’s also other factors like the centre of rotation (or centre of pitch) that all affect airflow and the planes ability to pitch.
Bigger wing doesn’t necessarily mean faster pitch.
Rolls well because it has vortex generators over the ailerons. They delay the separation of laminar flow over the portion of the wing that they’re added too, thus having more pressure on those control surfaces. More pressure, better roll rate.
I'm gonna go out on limb and say that the big fatty wings on the javelin are able to use their big fatty lift to roll the thing as fast as it does. And all that lift is there to help with pitch, but the elevators themselves are kinda small so they aren't going to be able to apply much force. The other deltas usually have elevons that vector the massive lift for turning, but with the javelin, you're basically using the baby wing that is the elevator and stab for all of the pitch forces
Ey Phly, you should make pinned posts on each of your videos for people to put in their challenges/requests, I'm tired of 75% of the comments on your video always being people making challenge # 1000 in a row.
Oh thats a damn good idea! Would clear up comments and make it easier for him!
Preach!
"#37271 sNeEki brEeKi take captured tank with enemy camo and see how long it takes for them to find you XDDDDD"
He would have fkin done it already if it was doable/worth it. Stop spam and comment on the vehicle in the video, or about anything in the video. Requests on the discord or a pinned thread.
@@Y.M... It is easily doable since the T-V can face Panthers in Sim
@@Y.M... PAIN CHALLENGE: Play archer with HE ONLY without GOING IN REVERSE.
I swear where's the fun in these? I'm not here to watch Phly suffer for 10 mins I already suffer everytime I play this game.
Pretty sure he intentionally made that request thing to increase his channel's viewer interaction. To help with YT algo and all that
Im guessing here but I think the problem with your turn is it's not actually a Delta wing. Your horizontal stab is mounted over your vertical, opposite to a traditional aircraft but with the same effect. So the point is your elevator is on your tiny horizontal stab with very little surface area. It doesn't have elevons like a Delta wing. It does, however, have massively large ailerons which is why it rolls so well.
@PhlyDaily:
Why the Javelin did not fly very well: it all has to do with *Aerodynamic Balance!* Had the Javelin had a space between Engines, much like an *F-14 Tomcat* (even without having a Swingwing), and a Lengthened Fusilage, and (my own favorite) *Active Forward Canards* you'd have seen the Javelin become spectacular!
There is a reason why the Firestreaks have a large amount of explosive mass, they had a proximity infrared detonation not contact (just another thing that is broken on the Jav). They really need to fix it should they ever add in the EE Lightning.
they are proxy fuse with 10m range (2x 5m of Sidewinder's), only some high tier Russian also get 10m, but at the same time lower tier AAM get pathetic 3m proxy fuse.
Yes Bunji, flaps have a limit on the speed they can be safely deployed. Sometimes, that limit is not just about structural failure, it can also be limited by the change in lift and drag that could cause stability problems if they are deployed outside the speed limits. Obviously, small flap settings have higher speed limits than high flap settings like landing.
Every aviator ever: Secondary integral exhaust
Me: planus
I do believe the further away the tail is from the wings center of lift the better it turns, because the force the tail push with is mangified by the arm (the distance to the pivoting point)
the javelins wings are swept back so the wings most likely has the center of lift quite far back so even that huge tail just can´t produce enough force because of the lacking distance.
I have no clue how flying wings work though like the me 163 or ho 229 which dosn´t have a tail at all
Ben Grogan's comment on the delta style changing the center of mass explains pitch. the wings look symmetrical, which is used more for acrobatic aircraft, that wing type does not provide alot of lift, un-like asymmetrical which provides better lift. So symmetrical delta wing means pitch meh, roll gud.
After looking over the design blueprints of the Gloster Javelin it seems that despite that large wing there are no leading edge slats, this greatly helps turn performance especially at lower speeds which the Javelin typically flies at, it's wing structure seems to cater more to stability than turning.
More surface area also means more drag, the balance you want is enough lift but also manageable drag at lower speeds otherwise you need more power to offset drag
It probably needs a flying tail like the latter F-86 to be able to turn tightly. And at those tight turns and high-angle angles of attack would maintain lift.
To answer your query about the javelin's flight performance. It's really about wing loading, not lift. And yes, the javelin shoulda been hella responsive to elevator inputs and slow on rolling.
I didn't do much digging, but usually on planes with a T-tail empennage the plane can be tricky to fly at high angles of attack and at low speeds. Maybe it just suffers from a bad case of compression?
It's because high alpha manouvres introduce dirty air flow to the elevators. When I say high alpha, I mean 15deg up on landing close to stall kinda stuff, pulling back on the elevator at 800km/h won't. The high tail should also be better at pulling up due to it's longer lever around the CoG than a conventional low tail design, assuming the lateral distance is the same. I'm extremely tempted to do a proper CFD of the aircraft to wipe in Gaijin's face...
the center of mass is far ahead of the center of lift in the large delta wing, the Fantasy aircraft, look at where the center of mass looks like compared to how far forward the wings are
Centre of lift is far back and the elevators are tiny, hence the slow turn.
Vulcan is agile because that had huge elevators, and the wing is just on another scale I think
the whole point of a stabilizer is to *drum roll please* stabilize the plane. So when you have a huge stabilizer then that probably means its going to help keep the plane pretty stable, and when you roll, pitch, and yaw the planes stabilizer is there to help counteract the unstabilization that rolling/pitching/yawing does to the plane rendering it less maneuverable in flight. At least thats how I remember the whole point of stabilizer and the wing size are supposed to work
If I remember correctly the elevator had a very small angle variation, 1.5 degrees I think, meaning it couldn’t turn at all. It was a flaw in the design of the tail. It’s been 5+ years since I researched it for a school project so I’m a little foggy on the details.
I just love how you are both climbing and accelerating at the same time while rolling non-stop. Weee weee indeed.
I believe that the mig 21 will turn better as it is more unstable, while the f4 phantom was designed to be stable.
wasnt it one of the last american fighters designed to be that way?
@@wowfail6835 I believe so, as the f 15 was designed to be unstable.
It's much less about how much lift the wing makes and more about the leverage provided by the tail. Think of it like a seesaw. The farther back the tail surfaces are, like on the 59, the better it turns, where as with the javelin, the tail surfaces are quite close to the center of mass and therefore have less torque which equals less turning
rolls well because the ailerons take up literally half of the width of the plane and the amount of air being directed over the wings
cant pitch well because the elevators are so high up compared to the main wings
The Gloster Javelin was used in air combat during the Borneo Confrontation from 1962-66. Sources suggest that an Indonesian Air Force C-130 was shot down by a Javelin and that other kills scored against Indonesian aircraft went unclaimed to keep from inflaming the situation. This is also why it was called a "confrontation" instead of a conflict or a war.
Phly, you are right. The rate of turning depends on a lot of factors, one of them being your lift:thrust ratio. If you are really fast but have little wingspan and/or control authority, turning will be hard as you have a lot of inertia to overcome. As a rule of thumb, the higher you lift is compared to your thrust, the less inertia it will have to overcome to turn, as the lift generated is also pushing in the direction of your turn.
(not a engineer...yet ) but the reason looks like to me is the ratio between wings and flap leans too far to the wing side so the front of the wing gets in the way when it tries to turn
if you watched the official stream, they showed off the new jet afterburner effects, it looks hot. literally.
1:05 wow beautiful jet plane :)
phly been a long time fan. still look for you on the battlefield.. if your wondering why the plane will not turn at supersonic speeds is that The sound barrier or sonic barrier is the sudden increase in aerodynamic drag and other undesirable effects experienced by an aircraft or other object when it approaches the speed of sound. When aircraft first began to be able to reach close to the speed of sound, ... These difficulties represented a barrier to flying at faster speeds. hence the faster your go the more drag and harder it will be to turn. There is a video of Chuck Yeager explaining this, its always on the history channel when this topic comes up
Shitty red flame gets fixed and removed from non-afterburners in 1.91!
Long wing creates problems with air "ripping" off surface at higher speeds.
So large wing can give you amazing turn in lower speeds , but at high speeds like diving it can LOSE airlift.
Basically, a delta wing generates lots of lift, is extremely stable at high speeds (supersonic or approaching supersonic) and offers a good compromise between high speed stability and low speed performance. It does, however, generate a LOT of drag, meaning that it will roll better than it turns, especially at high subsonic and supersonic speeds. Early generation supersonic and high subsonic fighters had reputations for being very unstable. Unstable = maneuverable in the combat world which is good, but when you don't have a computer auto correcting the airframe's desire to do backflips across the stratosphere because your merely human meat-body cannot detect or correct such events fast enough, then instability = bad. Thus designers tinkered with multiple designs that focused on stability at extremely high (for that era) speeds while still offering a modicum of low speed performance. The Javelin is one of those aircraft.
Benefits of a delta wing:
-Due to the large root chord, a delta wing combines low relative wing thickness with a sufficiently thick wing spar for a lightweight structure. Since a low relative thickness keeps wave drag down (a drag component which occurs only in supersonic flow), this makes delta wings especially attractive for supersonic aircraft.
-The large root chord gives the delta wing a high internal fuel volume even at a low relative thickness.
-The large root chord also provides it with a large surface area which helps to bring the minimum speed of the aircraft down.
-With sufficient leading edge sweep, a delta wing produces vortex lift, so flow separation can be turned into a means of increasing lift.
-A delta wing is naturally stable in pitch, therefore it does not require a separate tail surface.
Drawbacks of a delta wing:
-The large wing area causes more viscous drag for the same amount of lift compared to a high aspect ratio wing. Swept wings have a better lift-to-drag ratio (L/D) than delta wings.
-High-lift devices like fowler flaps are hard to integrate into delta wings. The higher relative thickness of regular airliner wings allows to integrate large flaps more easily, and the rearward location of the trailing edge of a delta wing will produce intolerable pitching moments if such flaps would be deflected.
Generally, the moderately swept high aspect ratio wings of subsonic airliners (for example) are ideal for flight at high subsonic Mach numbers. Delta wings are superior only in supersonic flight, and due to their good low speed characteristics they offer the best overall compromise for supersonic aircraft. Take for example the North American XB-70, a classical delta wing design. Note that the the canard wing, which has little sweep and a low aspect ratio is ideal for supersonic flight, provided it has a low relative thickness. The main wing of the XB-70 is a delta wing to keep the take-off and landing speeds relatively low and offers the best compromise of low and high speed characteristics. Also, the wing tips could be deflected downwards to improve directional stability at supersonic speed and to improve L/D (Lift to Drag Ratio) by using the waverider effect.
An interceptor aircraft, or simply interceptor, is a type of fighter aircraft designed specifically for point defense interception role against an attacking enemy aircraft, particularly bombers and reconnaissance aircraft, as they approach.
Javelin is an interceptor, does not need big agility, it needs speed, climb rate, fire power. It is not build for dog fight with fighters or other agile fastmovers.
It depends on the type of interceptor as well, though. During wwii, generally Fighter-interceptors were preferred by the axis in 44 and 45, as the escort fighters meant that the interest pros needed to be able to at least avoid getting killed by the fighters too fast
Javelin is an all weather interceptor meant to sniff out bombers and kill them, rather than to quickly scramble and take out a fireball above the airbase
@@spindash64 yes. In general Javelin has a one main job : fast take off, find high altitude bombers and take them out with one, fast, deadly strike avoiding counter action, avoiding risk. Perfect construction for that.
Well yeah Phly, the MiG 21 was a better turn fighter than the F-4. Realistically speaking the F-4’s only advantages was its payload and straight line speed.
And much better missiles
For turning, if you slow down them you'll find that you turn tighter than at high speeds.
Phly play Naval Battels again theres so much more stuff since u havent played it like Heavy Cruisers. Long Lance torpedos. They are even adding the Admiral Hipper and the Mogami in Update 1.91 .
If you can even find a match it takes me like 5 min to 20 min for 1 match with all 4 servers searching
@@sniper321fire yea the same for me thats why Phly should play more Naval. Because he inspires many people to play a specific vehicel and he is the biggest WT UA-camr.
@@skeletorlord621 kind of ships suck at getting RP I'm a Xbox player so i have USS Bennion and finally got somers this morning after grinding all yesterday and day before probably 50 plus games for 75k RP RP and SL gain sucks
@@sniper321fire but its the same with groundforces aircraft and helicopters sooooo
@@skeletorlord621 People won't play Naval Battles when World of Warships is much better in the naval gameplay. Gaijin basically butchered up gameplay when they didn't directly go for some of the largest ships and how the tech trees have been implemented doesn't help it either. A lot of people don't want to play these small river patrol boats.
Phly can play as much naval as he/you wants, but it won't make a difference considering the large grind to get to anything that people like.
Phly it has a big horizontal stabilizer but the elevators are actually pretty small. Today's fighters don't even use separate elevators. The entire horizontal stabilizer moves.
physics, delta wing aircraft are really good at high speeds, but less deliverable during turns, i can explain the physics but its 3 am and i just finished work but , but if you look at aircraft designed to cut through the air , you have examples of the f-16 or the su-27 they are designed with that in mind, but you apply a lot of drag on a big surface you would see it would be hard to turn it,
Delta wings are good for going in a straight line very fast as they have very little drag for a huge lift and are much easier to make stronger than a regular wing and so can survive faster speeds. However when turning, the massive wing is then hitting a lot more air than a regular wing and so fights the turn more than a regular wing with the same area of control surfaces.
The things I've seen some people say about the centre of lift being behind the centre of mass as a reason of this inability to turn, while true, only works if it is a very small delta wing, but this delta wing is beg enough compared to the plane that it still make the plane unstable like a su-27 just the wrong side and so hardly affects it compared to the reason I stated above. Also canards are used just because they add more control surfaces and they look really cool.
This is shown in the difference between modern American and European fighters. America favours regular wings as they are more fuel efficient and better in a dog fight, however if Russia was to send a bomber to a European country they would have a lot less time to respond and so just want to reach the bomber as fast as possible, due to the fact everything being closer to Russia and so there would be less time to intercept from when the Russian bomber takes to when it reaches the target than America would have as America is further away so they have the luxury of having a MUCH longer intercept time than Europe.
7:44 you break my heart Fredo, you break my heart
Challenge Request Attempt #8
Play any tank with an untrained crew.
Suffer with the rest of us who don't have golden eagles.
Lightning and jaguar are gonna be building the space station by the time these 2 new jets get to altitude
That T tail is part of the issue. Makes it very stable, but its position gives it poor leverage and it fights against the aircraft's natural tendencies
My guess is that at high speed, those tiny elevators might struggle to make those big wings change direction.
*Phly looses sight of plane in the dark*
This is why I hate night battles! They don't work!
Uh...no, that's pretty much exactly how that works.
He's a whiny UA-camr. Can't expect any more from him. Let's not forget refusing to shoot am enemy plane to show off how long his lock takes, while it shooting down his teammates. Or refusing to shoot an enemy because he's flying a plane Phly likes. Again, while it shoots down his teammates. He's a crap teammate showing off for his audience and if I spawned into a game with him I'd team kill him instantly.
I think the reason why it doesn’t turn well is because the only elevators are on the tail. Look at how small they are compared to to the ailerons on the delta wing. - which is why it rolls fast. - and turns slow-
this was ment for the intercepter roll , its targets were bombers so it had loiter instead
about the burners....they actually are adding a new afterburner effect
gotta add canards for delta to turn better, or offset the elevators away from the center of mass as far as possible.
1. Not enough flaps on the inner wing.
2. Same With ailerons
3. If ailerons were mounted mid rudder or lower,and the whole thing was fully hydraulic like the F4 she would be a beast... Sort of like the Typhoon or Firefighter's older brother...
Loving the unloved please Phly
Fairey Firefly
I-16 type 10
Preferably with some historical information
I feel like if they modeled the planes right yes the mig 21 will be able to out maneuver the phantom but the Phantom has a huge advantage in weapons and its overall power
Phly i think that in order to maneuvre well with delta wing it needs to be undisturbed by non other than canards and not elevators so the tail elevators fuck up the manuvrability but ots done in order to not over g it
Like thats what i was told so
Its no f 16 so it should not be overturned
I appreciate your thumbnails, Phly.
They give this fat craving to watch your video, like the craving you get when you wanna eat a big F***n bigmac.
0:17 OH YEAH OH YEAH OH YEAH OH YEAH OH YEAH OH YEAH OH YEAH OH YEAH
The Javelin never was the plane it was supposed to be . ITs final version as shown in the game the FWA 9 did have afterburners but these were not like later engines, these were an add on and were an attempt to improve the planes limited high speed. The Fire Streak was a tail chasing bomber killer hence the big warhead. Hopefully if we get eh Lightning F2A or F6 we will get the Red Top all aspect missile as well as two 30mm Adens. Having 4 of these on the Javelin is a lot of firepower. There are a huge number of really fun "What if", british jets from this period or just after that would be really fun in this game.
I wonder if the fact that F4 needs the centrally mounted pod could bridge the performance gap between it and mig21. Remember, 21 gun is built it. It might be only 60 rounds, but with trigger discipline 10-15 will be enough to get a kill. So, mig21+missiles performance might not be far off from F4 with a gunpod+missiles.
And notice how Gaijin now corrected F4 will only mount max 8x1000lbs - the last 3 from initial 11 would be mounted centrally. And the plane needs some sort of armament stock, so I think the middle pod will be reserved for gunpod only, maybe at least initially? Either way, If there will be no way to mount JUST the AA missiles, then the performance gap to mig21 will be reduces thanks to the pod. Once the missiles are out, the pod is still there causing drag (and it's a massive pod). And if mig21 pilot decides to go all in, and take no other armement, just rely on the gun - we might see some very interesting performance situations.
Of course, F4 being fighter-bomber, will definitely not suffer much even if mig21 turns out superior due to the pod drag, because it will be EXCEPTIONAL at bombing bases and destroying ground targets.
We shall see what China mig21s will bring to the table as well - they have a history of taking soviet/russian designs and producing superior versions. Balance dynamics at the top will be interesting. RIP Brits tho.
It would be spicy if they added the TSR2 or the V bombers
That's a relatively small elevator compared to the rest of the plane. Its roll would of course be fantastic
So, phly, phan of the channel, and one of the things that helps a plane turn well is the elevator size and the back. And the thing that helps roll is the ailerons on the main lift wings. So this plane kinda makes sense viewed throigh that lens
Love the vids Phly, but I think it needs a little bit more in game sound. The sounds of the game are amazing.
The Javelin has large ailerons but a rather small elevator. So the large airflow goes over the ailerons and not the elevator.
Not at 800km/h it shouldn't,that's the whole reason why the elevator is positioned as it is: to keep it out of the dirty air flow generated by the large wing.
I'm almost certain that if they added the f4, they're going to add the f105 and f104
I'm really enjoying the Javelin now. Just take off, climb at 10° and get them Tu-4s.
Hey Phly the Javelin is probably pretty heavy meaning it has a greater wing loading per square foot of wing area than the phantasy jet. Also the elevator looks a bit close to CG reducing its effectiveness.
simple mach 1 is around 1200 km/h your pushing 900. That's not intended combat speeds hence why you loose alot of turning control. it was also designed as an bomber/fighter interceptor not really a dog fighting type jet. Meant to do what you were doing. Blast off from the runway, approach the enemy quickly and take them out before they know you're there.
Whoever dislikes these videos is a bad smell that Mother Nature should smite from the face of this beautiful Earth. Great video keep it up.
I was expecting the tomcat as the next American jet. 100% ok with the phantom. So excited
1 week later:Phly’s Javelin had been killed by a F-4C
Mig-21 is going to be pretty good, but I love America so I believe the F4 phantom can put up a really good fight.
Don't know about the handling, but like the hunter, the wings are too weak. Both jets what recorded going supersonic in dives at low altitude. The javelin made the news for doing it over a city. In WT that snap before they get close.
Watching phly vids while half drunk is 10\10 would drink again :D
The MiG-21 should have a smaller turning radius, but the F-4 should have a faster turn rate. Meaning, the MiG may complete a smaller circle, but the F-4 should complete a bigger circle, faster. It's pretty complicated, but the F-4 shouldn't have an issue dealing with the MiG in a turn fight, if the pilot knows what he's doing of course.
Me: Actually catches one of his videos early
Also me: *visible confusion*