Best Secure Text Messaging App (For Most People) in 2023!
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- Опубліковано 28 кві 2023
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I still communicate via pigeons 🐦
Join us Hams! We don't encrypt. Instead we bore to death anyone who dare spy on us over the airwaves. 73
You can still use any encryption on top of RFC 2549 or 1149.
just use navajo code talkers 😅
Sooo it was your Pigeon that got caught with a mini backpack full of drugs strapped to it 😂 😂 😂 😂
@@JayfkProductions876 That's funny because they still sneak drugs into prisons that way.
I had been getting a little disaffected, but this won me back… Privacy is totally different from leaking creatively to teach eavesdroppers and spies a lesson. Privacy is a human need.
Agreed 100% about Signal dropping SMS... so sad! I get it. SMS is not secure but the fact that it offered SMS in addition to Signal messages is exactly how I was able to get friends to start using it. No SMS will make it much less useful to regular non-security people, so the pitch to get them to use it becomes more difficult.
I hope they get enough feedback to overturn this. I stopped using signal after they dropped SMS.
That's my story. No one seems to take this seriously
While E2E is important, what’s just as important is the metadata that your messaging app shares. Metadata allows nefarious actors and big tech companies to build clouds of information about you and everyone connected to you. Out of all the apps you mentioned, the only one that doesn’t collect metadata is Session
Meshtastic use the people’s infrastructure
The leaps and bounds that Matrix has made as a protocol in recent years is astounding.
The Element app has been very stagnant and has questionable UI decisions... especially surrounding some of the newer Matrix protocols. ("threads", "spaces", "widgets" etc.)
But that being said, the development surrounding alternative clients, their roadmap to "optionally making every client a homeserver" (aka full P2P mode, no need for a server), decentralized video group chat using federated / full-P2P TURN servers, etc etc etc...
All make me VERY excited for the protocol moving forward.
I would love to see a deep dive, and hear thoughts on some of the newer features (and what you took away from revisiting it after having seen / played with the app in the past)
The loss of SMS on Signal is more nostalgic than functional if you look at how messaging really needs to be encrypted in modern times. This sadly does mean that you will end up with Signal (or a similar secure messaging app) & a lesser secure SMS app until friends/family migrate to a more secure platform. For me the inconvenience has been minimal & most have already moved to Signal anyways. Most of the SMS I receive is from my bank, medical provider & other organizations that REALLY should have been on the forefront of moving to a more secure messaging platform to avoid potential breach or HIPA issues.
When you said WhatsApp I was confused haha I know many use it but I have never used the app partially because of some super uncomfortable experience I've had with those who use it which required reporting and the likelihood that I will use the app of reference is slim to none but I appreciate that you shared as many options available as possible. I stopped using Google's messaging app due to some bad experience a few years ago but might have another look at it I currently use a different app but I've been considering switching to something which might be more secure ☮️
I use element and I wish more ppl would! Please do a full video on it more ppl need to know about this app!
Hello Shannon, I recently subscribed to your channel and appreciate your content on improved security. I would like to know, does DeleteMe have a Canadian equivalent or a few of them you can suggest? Thank you much and keep up the great work and presentation of your videos! :)
Briar 100% best from a security perspective. Like nothing is stored on a server. Everything locally encrypted. Can communicate via BLE or NFC as well so it's line of sight. Super great if security is top priority
You’ll love Meshtastic
Thanks for the ideas Shannon 😊
I too am terribly sad about signal dropping SMS, after spending years getting my family to use it. Briar is really cool for it's offline no towers are working but we still need to communicate features. Anybody who is potentially involved in triage first response emergency response political activism excetra might find a use for that specific feature. I don't know if it is still possible, but a few years ago the testing was done with WhatsApp, and it was possible if you lost your device to pick up a new device and sync your old messages back on to it. Meaning the encryption key was stored as part of your account, and therefore while end-to-end encrypted air quotes, could potentially be recoverable or readable by unauthorized third parties.
I've been using signal for years now and I managed to get the family and my friends to switch too. That it also has desktop clients (Windows, Mac and Linux) makes it an ideal system.
Remember to enable encryption on your local computer that you have signal installed on or you are leaving it open for anybody.
App is compromised now
My understanding is that telegram encrypt on service side, not on the app so they can still see what you’re doing so they hold the encryption keys 🔑 would not use telegram or Facebook products at all
Good job 👍
I recommend you to use timestamps in all your videos as they are educational...
Wow, I found this video cause i was trying to see which is more private signal or telegram cause one of my friends said the telegram is more than signal. I used to watch you back in hak5 😱 definitely subscribing to your channel, and always very knowledgeable 🙌
Thanks for the sub!
Def interested in a deeper dive into element! On Signal from early on but now have to double up with something to handle SMS. 😑 This rundown was helpful to that end.
Find anything for SMS?
Love your content, and them Sailorn Moon shirts! ❤
Thanks Shannon, is there any RCS texting apps you would recommend other than Google Messages? Thanks
Always love to listen to you
I would love RCS E2EE to be default. Only for the cross platform potential since RCS was *supposed* to replace SMS/MMS..... And this is because it's really really hard to get folks to use other apps. Having a better default would be great (US based here). I use Signal, but it's getting painful. No easy way to switch between Android/iOS and keep history. No way to do something like a 1 yr disappearing messages like iMessage.
No easy way to backup/restore on iOS either for Signal. For situations like phone loss/breakage. Or just trying to reinstall the app because notifications is busted. And not having this be easy to the end user makes it hard for adoption. Friends stopped getting Signal notifications and just opted to s witch back to iMessage since I finally got iOS. If they were going to lose history, they used it as an opportunity to jump off.
Which is why I wish we just had a better default. Sorta getting there... RCS isn't all rainbows and candy either, sadly.
May need an updated video 🤔
Samsung note9 no option to turn on RCS. messages are not E2EE! Not a single persons messages in my list are E2EE.
I have used Signal for longer than can rememeber. Probably 8 years now and have used for basic messaging and direct action/protest stuff. Cops couldn't access my texts when arrested and alway found the support and UI great. For a free app can't fault it. I just miss the sms option though totally get why removed as many folk were sending unsecure thinking was. They also have a record of refusing supeonas unlike telegram and others.
You say that signal no longer supporting SMS is understandable. Please make me understand. Because the reasons they've given, i.e. confusion about whether messages are encrypted or lead to surprising SMS costs do not make sense, at least not anywhere close to justifying the major nerfing of their app. This 'one stop app' for both SMS and encrypted messaging feature was the reason I managed to get it on my parent's phone, but now they're back to What'sApp, and others are with Threema, and others still with telegram, and I have to have all of them.
There's another called "block chat" that I saw on a billboard in SF. It might be interesting. And one i looked at some time back xx massager.
I've convinced a few to go to signal, but it's the iMessage "I don't understand why do i want another messaging app" even the ones who in the next sentence complain that the picture I sent from my Android looks terrible...
Signal phasing out sms made me stop using them. it was hard enough trying to convince people to use any of these apps but then signal had to make it harder to convince people to use it
Couple years ago we convinced all my family to use signal. Outside of family not many friends have set it up.
Will be interesting how long I can survive without what's app. Over here it's used by all sort of social teams and schools to coordinate people and activities.
Hey, if the EU can require open standard USB-C, why not open standard E2E encryption that's included as the default for built in mssging apps, regardless of the OS or phone brand.
Yesss!
I've tried to get family and friends on Signal, but yes, there's a convenience issue. People don't want to have to do homework just to send text messages. At least with WhatsApp, it is encrypted.
What lol whatsapp is not encrypted by default. You have to do it yourself, so you definitely have to do homework over there in whatsapp
Thanks for that. I'll be trying Element for the next month, to see how it reacts to my testing measures 😁
Hey there
@@user-qj1bs2jg3e Erm.......weird.
Also thats a nice generic machine assigned username 😆
I use different apps depending on who I'm speaking with.For family overseas, It's all WhatsApp. In use signal for family here and Google messages for everyone else.
Looking for a one message platform that includes whatsapp, messenger, rcs, imessage seen as how I have friends with iPhones and android. Thoughts on Beeper, or Sunbird although they are in development and alpha/beta testing
Signal is out of the question due to the phone registration.
I am looking for an off grid Bluetooth only texting app to be used when traveling where there is no Internet signal.
Love your TShirt, is that one of your merch or just a pvt one?
Also liked the comments about Whats app, ended up using this with family as I have had issues getting them onto better platforms, and while I don't trust it I don't find as much info from there seems to carry to advertising as opposed to FB messenger.
Finally would love a video on element, sounds really interesting.
The shirt was from a vendor at an anime con! ☺️ Thanks for watching!
Facebook Messenger just discontinued support for sms on Android 😢
I have an android tablet and no smartphone. Signal doesn't appear to be an option, so what now?
Hello, I'm here to watch your video😊
Meshtastic is all anyone and everyone needs
Good video thank you! DeleteMe unfortunately only for US Residents
Been on the signal train since it was called TextSecure and I do miss the SMS feature too :(
what about keybase, other matrix clients and matrix gateways
sorry to ramble did some more reasearch and correct , no end to end encryption by default but its encrypted from device to server for intransit msgs . Anyhow its still the least intrusive , ie you dont need a phone number to sign up
I'm glad you did some research and corrected yourself in the comments! 👍
Really need a video on element
here in Brazil, whatsapp is almost mandatory for communication. but i'd love if everyone used briar :D
Oh, maybe take a look at it then.
I live in Brazil too. It is impossible to communicate without WhatsApp.
What I did:
Strengthened my Whats app security including encrypted backup and 2FA
Use iMessage with family
I tried to implement signal and threema for family and friends. Just a few accepted and only three still use it.
I'm a huge fan of threema
There really are a lot of quality messaging apps
WhatsApp. The one thing I hate the most about it is the backups, but it's a must over here. Telegram seems better but then everything is on a server from you know where, with encryption being very hidden. I have to use both.
RCS? I remembered to enable it by watching this video. That's the worst part because not everyone with the Messages app has it enabled. Also, nobody over here uses iMessage.
I don't know anybody using Telegram so haven't bothered with it.
Data is saved onto servers for Messenger and WhatsApp. FB has acknowledged this.
Someone is close to 100k!
Question... in the various encrypted messengers (Whatsapp Facebook Messenger Messages by Google) mentioned... does all messaging go through a Meta server, or Google server ..ie from my phone to their server to the recipients phone? and does this make the info on their servers potentially able to be decrypted at the server??? It is my understanding that Signal is encrypted end to end with no ability for an intermediate to decrypt thus making it far more secure.
My wife and I started using Wire in 2016
Can you do a video about how to add a second phone number in signal messenger so that you do not have to disclose your personal phone number to someone in order to use signal with that person by giving them your alternate phone number instead of your personal private number. Thank you!
^^^^This^^^^
Up ,
100% agreed, which is something I rarely say with messengers reviews. xD I don't even have anything to add. Well, I'll make a long comment anyways. :P
So, I personally use Signal, I'm forced to keep using WhatsApp because of the reasons Shannon pointed out, and I keep Briar installed in all my devices more like a just in case scenario... it's less because of the messaging part, and more because of the multiple ways it can send and receive encrypted messages.
Oh, I switched to an app called Silence for SMS since Signal is shutting the thing down... also sadface. The thing is, I still get a whole ton of SMS from banks, government services and whatnot, and they don't offer any alternatives, so I really have to just keep using something. While the content of messages won't really be all that protected since like Signal it requires both sides to be using the same app, at the very least Silence has some protection regarding OS screen visibility, a login wall, and a few other privacy related fine controls. Plus, I just feel more comfortable with an open source app rather than Samsung, Google or my ISP handling it.
Anyways, back to Briar, I never actually had to use it... but I just like the idea. It encrypts messages like any other private/secure system, but it can transmit via Internet but using TOR p2p, offline via Bluetooth, Wi-fi, and I think it can even transmit via physical media. No servers involved. Like, you put a USB stick on your phone, copy the messages there, and then send the USB stick to a recipient... only the specific contact you sent the message to will be able to decrypt and read the message.
For everyday life messaging it's just too barebones and too technical to be used, but I really like the idea behind the project.
Thanks for the comment. To protect SMS at least on the local and viewing level is the best we can do. I have the same issues with banking and other institutions that still use sms .
I checked silence app website and their last app version is 3 years old. Is there any alternative to protect SMS locally ?
@@ibanhes Yeah, that's the unfortunate side of this... I haven't found anything better so far. If you find something, let me know!
1:00 I was suprised to learn that Apple do have a copy of the key they use in iMessage so it is not fully E2E though OK for most I guess
i liked that SMS could be exported with signal. my other apps don't do that 😔
I'm still looking for a messenger that supports PGP over SMS
A close alternative is inputting your messages into KPaste and sharing the link to the recipient or you can use WebRTC for realtime chat. These options don't require you to have an account.
Great content but just remember if the app is free the app brand is selling some type of info from you to stay running the app. Stay safe 🌎
What’s the point of using encrypted messaging apps if they can be subpoenaed for your logs?
Jabber or gtfo
signal for the win
I love Threema and I don't bother that it has the one time cost of a beer. Besides encryption, the business model of a vendor is an important factor. Are you the customer, the product or what?
What about Session?
What about Viber? I know quite a few people that use this app.
ty
Before I watch This plz I need this
Signal & Session >>
Good in depth video but took until minute six to talk about apps. Wasn't expecting that based on the title
I generally include a lot of theory and background context in my videos. If I don't, I get a bunch of "well actually" type of comments 😂. You're welcome to skip ahead if you don't care about that part tho. Just don't comment telling me "I forgot to mention xyz" when I already included it in the contextual segment (happens way too often lol). Have a great day!
6:15 What logical reasons?
None in my opinion. I just said that so the signal fanboys don't attack me 😂. I ain't got time for that. Signal did post a lengthy blog post about their reasoning.
100k subs here we go. (Is 99.8k)
Does Beeper use your phone number for Imessage ?
I am an early adopter of Beeper. You have to go through hoops and more hoops to use your ph. no. for iMessages. Although it is a great idea for a one stop shop for all your messaging apps, iMessaging with your ph. no. has come to a halt because of issues with Apple and Security. The tech savvy users of Beeper have come up with methods to use your ph. no. when sending iMessages that include having a mac that stays on all the time, setting up a self hosted bridge (using another app named BlueBubbles), or even using a jailbroken iPhone, but the stability of keeping your ph. no. registered is just not there with any of the methods as of yet, at least not for me. I defaulted back to using Google Messages and being "unencrypted" between me and my iPhone contacts because they are die hard users of the iMessage app only.
I will go with Discord it's the best
In Japan the Line app is very popular. Is it also secure?
Yes, the app is literally in the play store with over 500M downloads.
Line is great..been using it for years here in the States. It's also very popular in Thailand and Taiwan.
Signal it´s a real good app, but it´s hard for my co-workers to use anything but whatsapp
That's because they are brainwashed. Just try your best to brainwash them with signal I have been using signal since the second year it was out
Wish what’s app had sms be no 1
Me too !! I hope they do some day
Facebook messenger doesnt support sms as of 2024
I didn't like briar all that much. On paper it looked cool, kind of like a cross between telegram and firechat. Ultimately it just killed my battery way too fast, as it was searching for nodes all the time.
For me Threema
Imessage and icloud are not opensource and not to be considered as private.
Threema is a splendid secure messaging app since it doesn't require any phone number to be able to use and it comes from a country that takes security and privacy over the internet very serious: Switzerland. Can you please make a video on secure e-commerce sites especially the ones you use..heard in one of your recent videos that you shop on Japan sites. Thank you beforehand
Well I wouldn't praise us too highly. We USED to be super hard on privacy. But that changed very recently when the conservatives came up with a new law pretending to protect children. Adults will now have to prove their age for anything in the internet. As of now nobody knows how it will play out. How ever, the ministry of justice isn't unopposed. They have an unlikely adversary in this: the military. The military is compulsory for men. That means that private phones are a mayor issue. So they decided to push for more privacy. Instead of cracking down on the soldiers they have taken a bigger approach: using Treema in the military and then wait for the soldiers to be to lazy to delete it afterwards. They are hoping that the use of the app will spread in the civilian population too as most men have to go to the military or civilian protection units . This would make it even harder for foreign groups or military to gather intel from civilian phones as we are currently seeing in Ukraine and Crimea. Well, let's hope that the military wins against the justice department. The military has become pretty interesting now that it is run by GenX a woman. There is a lot going on there. After all it is the only department out of the hands of the boomers and it shows. Never thought would see that old gang go progressive but well, here we are.
@@arsantiqua2483 Let's hope things change and privacy continues to increase.
Got Apple you're doomed
I use whats app because pretty much everyone uses it here in the uk
It's the most common app overseas! Not common at all here in North America :(
Too bad Signal requires phone numbers. So many things do, but there are a few of us who have no phone number at all.
Ok so, literally every single app you use for texting requires a phone number, you can either accept the fact that it does require it and use it or run from it.
@@Austinredstoner Yeah, you can't text to an account instead of a phone number on any texting app except for a few horrible ones like ICQ and Snapchat. I chose to run from it.
So does most of the other apps 🤔
@@kingofkingz235 I guess it's up to me to fix this.
Jami
If the UK government gets it's way these will all be illegal to use here.
Good luck actually policing that. A lot of apps/sites are banned in far far more draconian countries, people still use them.
Use signal
Telegram and Google messages are better.
Why?@@Austinredstoner
I use Signal for any sensitive messaging. I would use Google messages, but I don’t give out my actual phone number, just my Google voice number.
If you using Iphone, there is no way to secure. It will track everything you do
All the 100s osint bots to track everything and everyone on telegram makes it really unreliable to use beyond peer to peer.
Defeated by Client Side Scanning
I used to use Facebooks Messenger even tho I didn't have a Facebook account.
Recently they decided to change that and you were required to have a Facebook account.
It could be an inactive account (or whatever they called it), but you still needed an account.
So I just stopped using Messenger because I refuse to have a Facebook account, inactive or not.
Just create an account then. You're literally using an app that's owned by Facebook it even has the name Facebook on it right in front of you.
@@Austinredstoner No thanks, I hate Facebook. I deleted the account I had 6 years ago
Jesus is coming back, and He will judge the world for its sins whether you have ever lied stolen or listed or even murdered. You will be judged unless you repent and believe in Jesus Christ who died for sinners like us ☦️
2nd Corinthians 5 19 God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, NOT counting men's sins against them!
I wish I could get off WhatsApp 😅
😂
How are you
I downloaded it once had to lose the phone zap off what's app
Plot twist none of these services are 100% secure.
Plot twist: the internet is not secure. If you really want security, throw all your devices away and go live in the woods.
Tldr: this is why I'm not a security/privacy absolutionist. Everything comes with a caveat.
Is delete me even safe? Seems like a shady company. I dunno. Would like a video on it
I've done an entire video review on it a while back. Feel free to check it out. And if you need other parties to give you a recommendation, hit up pretty much any infosec expert, I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing. 😊
@@ShannonMorse Ah I see my apologies! I'll check it out, thank you!
Just that I saw a post recently on reddit where someone used incogni to remove their data and they got even more spam.
Just that there are so many recommendations out there, but I guess I'll bite the bullet on delete me since it's the one that shows up on infosec channels.
Also I guess I'd trust your expertise!
Elon mentioned in an interview the FBI has access to signal messaging even though it is encrypted. They can read Amy messages they need.
Yeah, even Carson messages from his account were read by the CIA he made a video about cause he was going to visit Putin, but maybe his phone was hacked before. any app that you have to put your # number to subscribe to it. I believe it's not the secure even tho I do use signal two years after it came out
The problem with Signal is Signal Inc. No federation, no third party apps.
Thanks for the video, Shannon! Sorry, but I'm going to rant about Signal for a bit. Feel free to delete it if it's hijacking the thread.
The logical reasons Signal gave to remove SMS/MMS are bunk and hasn't sat well with me since they presented them. They stated three reasons (that I recall hearing) that don't make sense. The first reason, insecurity of SMS/MMS, is just stupid. If we use another app for SMS/MMS, that insecurity sitll exists but the new app won't care about it and won't do anything to inform the user that there is a security concern. The second and third points just laziness on Signal's part. Separating SMS/MMS from the app misses an opportunity to educate people abut the benefit of using an encrypted app like signal.
Both the UI/UX concerns and the cost of SMS/MMS messages to the end-user can be easily avoided with pop-up messages warning of the issues. Default them to "on" and force the user to turn them off by acknowledging that they understand the security/cost implications of using SMS. Signal can use any method they'd like. Maybe change the colour of the background to an annoying, different colour for each of these situations. You could even go so far as to put a special notification bubble on the screen somewhere that reminds the use why the colour changed if they click it. Heck, default SMS to off and. again, force the user to go to setting to allow them.
Removing the feature places Signal in a bubble of users that already understand the limitations of SMS/MMS. It further potentially adds a barrier to adoption of secure messaging for the average user since they now have multiple apps to track and remember which contact uses which app. I understand the potential arguments for a separate app. "It's free," "users have lots of apps on their phone," "the cost to maintain an extra feature," blah, blah blah. However, they have stated one of their aims is to "find ways to serve the public good" in the sphere of messaging security. I think that also consists of seizing opportunities to educate the average user about the security hazards of SMS/MMS. Removing that feature for the reasons they presented feels like a abdication of responsibility to that tenant.
YMMV.
Shout out to SimpleX Chat. Still under heavy development so it's rough on battery life and it's probably not for normies but if you like Session and Briar keep an eye on it and maybe test it to help it develop. Encryption gets the buzz but the mainstream apps with the accumulated meta data are just as big a nightmare database.
Wire wont work on Win7 anymore, and wants you to use 11....that monitors your input. So, why bother with being secure if you use it on a non secure OS?
They were great, then became a total joke, like all the others. There is nothing left out there