The Hidden Costs of CHEAP AMPS!
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- 🎯 a better value amzn.to/2RSbcUy • bit.ly/CXLS1502 • bit.ly/3UztXaL • bit.ly/3HFMUUo
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► CHEAP SMALL AMP (Aiyima Amplifier, Arylic Amplifier, Fosi Audio Amplifier Review)
Aiyima A08 Pro bit.ly/3NBtqnv
Arylic B50 bit.ly/3L1jUbT • bit.ly/43rYrQg
Arylic A50 amzn.to/2QwddS1
Fosi Audio BT20A Pro bit.ly/3ATmCKm
Fosi Audio TB10D bit.ly/44sNaQs
► BETTER COMPARABLE AMPS
Bluesound Powernode Edge bit.ly/3UztXaL
Cambridge Audio AXA25 amzn.to/2RSbcUy
Cambridge Audio AXA35 bit.ly/3u6MDRq
Cambridge Audio AXR100 amzn.to/3e45mHR
Crown XLS bit.ly/CXLS1502
Emotiva Flex bit.ly/3HFMUUo
► HOW WE TESTED THE AMPS
SPEAKERS
Klipsch 8000F II bit.ly/3whkdb3 • amzn.to/3PSWy8A
Revel M16 bit.ly/37whl0e
TVs
TCL XL 98” amzn.to/3kbj4hB
Apple 4K TV: amzn.to/3em0YUp
SPEAKERS STANDS + CABLES
Speaker Stands bit.ly/3xsoe9M, bit.ly/2VOs7p3
My Cables: custom, not avail for purchase
Similar DIY Cables: bit.ly/3Px4Jan
Interconnects: bit.ly/3D314M8, bit.ly/3N6NBri
Cable Management amzn.to/3ZcunWP • amzn.to/3GJtf5C
DIAGNOSTICS
Room EQ Wizard
Measurement Tools: bit.ly/3MsYzpR
► THE REAL COST OF CHEAP AUDIO - THE HIDDEN COSTS OF CHEAP AMPS
00:00 CHEAP SMALL AMP - WHAT TO KNOW BEFORE YOU BUY
00:28 WHAT BEGAN AS AN ARYLIC REVIEW
01:02 CHIP AMPLIFIER - WHO ARE THESE AMPS FOR?
01:24 NEARFIELD LISTENING EXPLAINED
01:54 BENEFITS OF NEARFIELD LISTENING
03:20 MISLEADING POWER RATINGS
05:59 ARE THESE AMPS NEUTRAL?
08:10 HOW THESE AMPS MAY DAMAGE YOUR SPEAKERS
09:23 SHOULD I BUY ANY OF THESE AMPS?
11:05 MY WRAP UP
11:43 KRISTI’S THOUGHTS
► SHOP OUR LIVING ROOM
TCL 98” amzn.to/3kbj4hB
LG 83" OLED: amzn.to/3tppAmy
SONY 85" TV: amzn.to/3ygOW7S
MEDIA BENCHES: bit.ly/3X6SzYU • bit.ly/3Gk6UKL
IVORY RUG amzn.to/3WyJrw7
LOUNGE CHAIR bit.ly/3mGxoQx
EVERYTHING ELSE: bit.ly/3PcJzO4
► MY REFERENCE AUDIO AND HOME THEATER SYSTEM
POWER
Audiolab bit.ly/3ZhPw1q
Technics bit.ly/3bcE3fi
LOUDSPEAKERS
Polk bit.ly/3LtiF1N • bit.ly/3RcQR5Z
Q Acoustics bit.ly/3b0IbQ2
MartinLogan bit.ly/3xgyXql
SPEAKER STANDS
Budget amzn.to/3DD0UJX
Reference bit.ly/3xsoe9M
TURNTABLE
TT2 bit.ly/3tWwdxd
TVs
OLED: bit.ly/3AzeD6y
LED: amzn.to/3ygOW7S
QLED: amzn.to/3biyRXu
HOME THEATER
Receivers: bit.ly/3n2lTje ($) bit.ly/3DyHEjb ($$)
Soundbars: amzn.to/39hJ1Xz ($) bit.ly/3OS72nG ($$)
In Ceiling Speakers: bit.ly/3I3gAbg
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#amplifiers #fosiaudio #aiyima #arylic - Наука та технологія
🎯 amps that are a better value amzn.to/2RSbcUy • bit.ly/CXLS1502 • bit.ly/3UztXaL • bit.ly/3HFMUUo
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And this is why I like watching your Channel and Subscribed, It's your insight and Advice.Guiding path... Cheers P.S> Any chance you could do a PC episode, for Sound cards and or other Audio Paths people may use in their PC Setup?
I like everything I hear about the Cambridge amps (AXA 25, 35, & AXR100 but the low 80db noise rating gives me pause. Are the specs just rubbish?
Those are unsuitable for pairing with the speaker for rear/side surround channels. Chasis are way too large. Where as the Fosi fits nicely on top of the speaker, completely wireless other than power cable for the amp. The Fosi is great for SR channels, just dont use for LCR channels.
Yes, Great TPA3255 amp.I just saw the AIYIMA A07 is indeed the lowest price ever,Nice!
@@Peter-yt7xm wow. Thank you for this. It is lucid, fair, thoughtful, wise, and helpful. At least one person out here appreciates it
I’m a professional sound engineer. Amplifiers only need to do one thing: take a small signal and without adding or subtracting anything from the signal, make it much larger.
These little amps do this very well indeed, often much better than pretty much any older domestic audio kit - at any price. Domestic audio is more often garbage than not, again, at any price.
Unless you’re listening in an acoustically treated monitoring room on the flattest of studio monitors, you’re not going to find anything to fault with these things.
I say buy them enjoy your music without worrying about the cost and obsessing about inaudible sonic artefacts.
Oh but I swear on my mother's heart that indeed _I_ can hear the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit, 48kHz & 192kHz. Even if nobody else can. Coz I'm Supernan with my Superears!
@@duprie37 Haha! this is exactly what this review videos sound like. I just need a cheap amp to power my inexpensive vintage speakers, is that wrong?
Any good cheap recommendations or should I go for what he said in this video?
I sold my 600.00 tube amp with 6 tubes upgrades top of the line tubes... for the Aiyima07 and just swapping the opamp to sparkos labs...never feel sorry or missed the tube amp, not for a near field use...this 07 rock rocking
@Shepherd Grant agree
Sounds like an advert to me....
@Shepherd Grantthink you could stand a double blind test??
where can you buy those sparkos opamps from sparco??
99% of the time i agree with your reviews. Today not so much. I own fortes IVs, Heresy IVs, Quartets and original 770s along with Decware Sarah, Willsenton R8 Audiolab 6000a and pioneer 980 and a Fosi a20 pro. I paired the Fosi with a couple different dacs and was surprised how good it is, For the money. I would recommend it to people who don't have a large budget or just want to see if they want to get into the hobby. The cambrdge is a good amp but if you get into the hobby at all you will out grow it very quickly and its really limited by power. Fosi is closer to 35-40wpc out of box. So personaly i would rather have the Fosi powering speakers in my garage like mine is used for or on a desk than the cambridge axa25 at 3 times the price and size. Always appreciate your opinions whether i agree or not. 😊
Pretty much my experience exactly, and the Fosi allows you to roll the op amps which is fun. Anything which reduces the price of entry to this hobby has got to be a good thing, and it gives old timers like me something to play with which doesn't make me feel too guilty for buying yet another piece of kit.
Scott I concur with everything you said. I own vintage La Scalas, Heresy II’s and a vintage Pioneer 780. Sounds like we have similar tastes. I am wondering how you are liking the Sarah amp. I am soon to move to page one of the decware waiting list for a zen but can upgrade to the Sarah. I currently have a Schiit Freya plus and mono Aegirs as my main system but am getting long in the tooth and would like to assemble my forever system. Are you loving the Sarah? How does she compare to the Willenston? Did you spring for the Western Electric tubes? If so, how did they perform?
@John Board The Willsenton is my work horse that I use daily. It's has el34 mallards and tung sol front end use it everyday and I love it. But the Sarah is Special and is the only piece i own that wont leave my collection. I do not have the WH 300B so cant speak to those.
Thank you. I think I will upgrade my order to the Sarah.
Big bro has too much money to argue about affordable options. These amps are literally a pay as you grow system, from power supply and op amps, to port expansion and case mods, you can learn rather than just consume.
I recently bought the Aiyima A07 & paired it with the Douk Audio P2 tube buffer, which added 3 way tone controls, remote control, Bluetooth, it really fleshed out the sound of the aiyima, drives my Dali floorstanders with ease, no weird whining noise, just silence, it's usually the cheap power bricks that are the weak link in these budget class d amps, i owned the Cambridge audio axa35 for a short time but found it thin, bright, with terrible tone controls, this pre, power combo for £120 sounds way better to me, the Aiyima A07 has been reviewed, modded, tested so much that I'm sure that if it was a speaker destroyer, it would have been flagged up by now! Just my honest opinion 👍
So good recommend the douk tube buffer over the fosi p3 preamp you think? Also would it be sufficient for some hefty Klipsch rf7 flagships or is that too much to ask?
AOTD: I've personally missed this current discount-audio wave, but I'm happy that newcomers are putting together systems at all. It's an opportunity to bring folks into better sound beyond their phones. Heck, having someone check Ohm's law beyond calibrating a vape pen is a societal win as far as I'm concerned.
Fellow vaper, huh? LOL
I don't vape, but haters are worse than the vaper stereotypes 🤢
I’m super happy with my Ayima 07, I’m using a 48V 10A supply. More power than my Audiolab 8000P power amp and I can leave it on all day. It’s not putting out 300W, but easily more than enough. These amps are not limited to near field, that’s silly. Power is power, and the Ayima 07 can easily drive floor standing speakers in a large room. Plus, measurements don’t lie and the 07 has excellent measurements.
Hey where did u get the PSU to buy?
I believe they give half watt from what they saying... what do you think?
I drive my old columns from 70s with 32v 5A psu so 70w they have 8 inch woofers and I never need to go past 1 o'clock to achieve satisfying volume. I use this setup for movies. Playback from Prime video stays at like 10-11 otherwise it's deafening. I don't even know what needs full power from this little thing new speakers are supposed to be more efficient.
Ppl don’t wanna give credit where it’s due I’ve been looking at the aiyima amps for awhile yall confirm everything I was thinking. It’s as good as its looks
I bought the Aiyima a07, Fiio k5 dac, Elac db62 and Elac 130 sub for Christmas. Complete system with stands and wires for $600. It sounds great! For me, it wasn’t about the money, it was about dipping my toe back into the hobby. Before I bought this little system, I had a wish list $8000 long! Didn’t want to get stuck with it if I wasn’t going to use it. Because this has been such a good experience, I’m back to researching my next system to include high quality components. In my mind, this industry would never get my future money if cheap, borderline good quality components were not available.
It’s sounds great... hahaha ok bud
Good for you Robert. As I believe someone around here has said before…the only person who has to like your system is you.
A system is as only good as it’s source. You could get so much more out of the setup with a better amp.
I have an Ayima T9 Pro connected by optical fibre to my PC. Two old Energy Take speakers at easy arm's reach. After a bit of fiddling with the bass and treble by the remote control, I have a massive, massive improvement over my aged Sony powered speakers. Best purchase I have made this year.
Right tool for the very specific job.
How is it a specific job and how is the cheap thing the right tool? Sorry I'm just confused at your point. A better amp would be a better tool and powering speakers is far from a specific job.
@@nuggyfresh6430 They have to project sound about 3 feet. The sound is very clear at that range. There is no way a more expensive amp could sound better to my ear. At this point, the speakers are likely the limiting factor, but I am out of money. And perfectly satisfied.
I saw a McLaren at the grocery store today. My Kia was the better tool for picking up groceries.
I could list 50 instances in 30 minutes where the more expensive option is wasted money. Starting with the Concorde.
My use of the word niche was intended to indicate that there are other cases that call for better equipment. But not this case.
@@nuggyfresh6430 Cheap class D amps are perfectly fine for nearfield/ desktop. As long as it measures well and your speakers aren't massively hard to drive, performance will be quite similar to more expensive amps/receivers.
@@ronstewtsaw i think ao7 is better option, you can swap the op amp, i have the T8 as preamp, i have fun swapping the tubes for totally different sound too
I use the B50 in my small living room set up. Although it is not a fantastic amp, it works just fine in this scenario and I love the fact that it has a ARC and CEC. I mainly use the system for working out and watching ball games along with some occasional airplay audio. It certainly doesn’t sound as good as my Emotiva BasX amps or even those built into my Denon receivers, but I think it is fantastic for what it offers at $140.
what's the use of an amp without the right powersource , that's a ripoff, it's only usefull if you have a transformer lying at home, so you can built your powersource for cheap or go class d
Thanks for the review! My Fosi TB10D is super quiet, with none of the high frequency noise you mentioned in your video. It is also surprisingly loud and powerful sounding with the included power supply. It sounds pretty darn good for a cheap chip amp. I also have a 1985 Yamaha A-1020 which I recently spent $ getting it repaired because all the newer amps I tried, such as the Cambridge AXA35, Rotel A11 Tribute and Yamaha AS501 didn`t come close enough to the sound quality of my Auto Class A 125 W/Ch Yamaha amp that was recently repaired. The Fosi TB10D gives me about 85% of the sound quality of my Yamaha. The Fosi TB10D is surprisingly good sounding for a cheap amp, and I use it daily to save wear and tear on my A1020, which I use every few days to get a great fix of high fidelity. Yes, the Fosi TB10D sounds like it is missing 15% of the sound quality compared to my Yamaha A1020, but it is still quite good for what it is, and I can leave it on all the time without heating up the house. I feel it would be a super good starter amp for someone...
so where's that 15% go? Like what's the sonic difference between the 2?
@@MasterofPlay7 Clearer presentation with more body, realism.
I've had great luck with these amps. They are fun to tinker with. I have used an A07 in my wood working workshop, so being enclosed and cheap is of great benefit. I run a JBL control sb-2 (a passive sub that accepts a full range stereo input and has a low pass to itself and high pass to the mains) and a pair of JBL arena 170 towers. While I haven't taken an SPL reading I can drive it to paint can rattling levels that compete with the table saw. I have tried several different class D amps and some are better than others but they have all been reliable and low noise. I package them with speakers that I have repaired and/or veneered and give to friends as sound bar alternatives or desktop systems. It's great because I tend to accumulate gear and I try to keep the outgoing and incoming equal. I use a Rotel and B and Ws on my main listening system but my scrappy workshop system puts a bigger smile on my face jamming out after a long day covered in saw dust.
That's probably the ideal use. However ideal.circumstances aré rare
I too have an A07. I initially hooked it up to my Tannoy XT-8F towers, which were driven just fine.
My purpose for getting the amp though, was to drive the two Canton Atelier 750s in my (open) dining room at typically low volume (since I maxed out the amps in my Marantz sr6015). I find it perfectly capable to fulfil this task, but I'm not picky.
I am using one on my desktop. What I like is that one can swap the opamps with some discretes. Sure, that drives the price up but like you say, fun to tinker with.
They keep deleting my comments about how good the BT20A Pro is when combined with a $40 Droc psu.
No one is deleting your comments, @GreywolfStudios74.
I have the Aiyima A07, SMSL A100 and AO200 and they all sound better than my two class AB Onkyo amps (A9010 and A9150). They are clearer (which for some may mean brightness) and the speed and control of their bass reproduction is better. They have the same power as the Onkyos. I don't understand why they would sound worse, unless you like the slightly soft sound of inexpensive AB-class amplifiers. However, none of them compare to the level of my XTZ A2-300 and Audiophonics HPA-S25ONC d-class power amplifiers.
As a college student, I started out by getting a desk setup with a Schiit DAC and Fosi amp to run a cheap pair of Elacs I picked up used (only source is my computer at this point), and can confirm that while it was functional, it definitely was not the best option. While I'd still say the Schiit DAC has been great, and the Elacs have been great for the price ($60), I saved up and got a used Emotiva amp for $120 and it is WORLDS better than the Fosi. In the living room, my roommates and I are running a pair of vintage Kenwood floorstanders with a paradigm center and sub (admittedly had to replace some resistors on the sub) along with a couple cheap surrounds through an old Harmon Kardon receiver. All in all, that movie setup was about $170, and while not perfect, it is great for the price. I say all this to say I'd encourage anyone looking to save money to look into buying used before getting worse equipment. There are often many great deals to be had and better equipment for the money, no matter the application.
Class D amps use PWM (pulse width modulation) to generate an amplified signal - and because the PWM frequency is essentially *high frequency noise* it must have a low pass filter to remove it from the sound you hear out of the speakers.
This means that *some* of that noise is not able to be filtered out *and* that there are phase shifts happening because of the filter. Better Class D designs use a (much?) higher PWM frequency - which makes it *much* easier/better to filter out the noise. And there is less phase shift because the filters are set higher and have more effect with a lower slope filter.
Marantz model 30 is classD. It is the implementation. Future is with class D
@@nrupenchudasma4101 Of course its the implementation - as it is with Class A and Class A/B, or Class H. But, I I have yet to hear a Class D that is *better* than Class A/B.
@@Abominable1 No, I haven't done that.
My reference amp is the AkitikA GT-104. Stunningly great sounding - barely gets even a little bit warm at 85-90dB peak SPL for extended listening sessions. Soundstage and dynamics is world class.
Exactly. The quality of the low pass filter is everything with class D design. If you have the room, you are much better off with a cheap 20 year old receiver from a thrift shop. I've currently got two two optimus, an HK, Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, and two Sony receivers. I've got several tower speakers and bookshelves and have interchanged all of them. Amazingly, the Sony's sound the best but run out of steam the quickest. The Optimus/ realistic have the most power but are most clinical. A basic 10 band EQ cleans all of them up wonderfully.
@@tpc3416 Sounds like you are a "3-speaker-a-day" Audiophile. Personally, I like the sound of 1980's Onkyo more than 80's Sony.
I'm old and old school and have a few systems , I've had a fosi hooked up to several sets of speakers over the last few months and it's changed my mind
what are your thoughts about fosi audio
@@Thehobbyeast I like it ! I've got some Polk xt20s hooked up to it now and they sound great
@@jimbo4203 I have just got a Fosi v3 and setting up with Polk ES20
@@jimbo4203 i got a fosi v3 they sounded dead to me waste
@@Thehobbyeast bummer , never tried that one but the BT 20 is excellent and at 69 bucks it's a deal
I'd recommend everyone to start with a cheap setup before investing in anything expensive. You will get to know what you like better, and understand what is missing in it. These amps are good for this purpose
I got myself the Aiyima A07 and paired it with Kef Q350 speakers. I have no issue with the amp. I also have no distortion at all (even at full Volume). Maybe because the 230V in Europe (Germany) is cleaner(?). I changed the OP Amps with Sparkos Labs ss3602. After this upgrade the Amp sounds even better than the NAD C316Bee V2 (400€ class A/B) on my Kefs Q350. Power output is also great and also no weird sounds or hisses at over 80 dB.
Before I bought the Aiyima A07 I had the Arlylic A50, but I was kinda disappointed. Max Volume was like 30% on my Aiyima and the sound was very flat and harsh. The Aiyima has no features aside the RCA and Aux inputs, but this is all I need at the moment and for half the price it serves a better job for me and sounds better then the Arylic. Maybe my Produkt is on of the better ones and you got a bad one.
That was i was wondering too is if they probably received slightly defective amplifiers? I own two Aiyima A07's and they sound really good! Not hearing what they are hearing with that high frequency anomaly. I think many people know that the advertised specs on these amps aren't as advertised. But i've seen tested many times that the A07 comes in a solid 50w at 8 and around 75w at 4ohms. Plenty for all of my different speakers. Surprised they were having difficulty driving those very sensitive Klipsch's. That's what is leading me to believe there may have been something defective with that amplifier. That should have been crazy loud.
@@RUMBLEGO1 As much as I like Andrews Speaker and Amplifier reviews, this one I don't. He either got a defective unit or just the power supply has some unexpected interference that causes the hissing noises or it's a biased review against cheap but good audio Produkts from "no-name" Brands.
I like how he is going through all the specification of the Amp, but it's kinda pointless to match a 80-100€ amp with a pair of Speakers that costs 1500€. I understand that it's just to test what the aiyima is capable of but in the real world no one would do this.
When listing with the Aiyima on my Kef speakers I knew there is more headroom and It could sound a bit smoother and more open, so I decided to upgrade the op amps. This upgrade lifts the price of the Aiyima to around 240€ and for this price you can also get beginner class A/B Amps like the Cambridge Audio AXA25. But the sound of the Aiyima now is more rich, detailed, open, smoother and cleaner. You are just left with the two inputs, but have sound in the 500-800€ Amp Price range. At least in my subjective experience.
@@luffy8049 I should add that i am no novice to decent sound amps. Had owned the mighty Sansuii AU717 when it first came out when i was 18 in 1977. Owned that for 25+ years. Then moved to 300B SET monoblocks from George Wright. To know and have loved those amplifiers and to be satisfied with this Aiyima says a lot. To myself it does anyway! I was all ready to send it packing but was very pleasantly surprised!
I also have KEF Q350s with Aiyima A07 and agree that it's very good for the price. I don't hear any noises from the Aiyima at all. It's very clear, dynamic, airy and open, with a high startle factor and presence. It beats out the softish, less pure, underpowered Cambridge AXA35 when I compared them.
Where I do agree with Andrew though, is my Aiyima class D and SMSL class D amps lack weight and a rich midrange, so always sound leaner than Class AB amps. And once you live with them for awhile, you'll notice the more detailed Class D sound, is less involving than a good class AB amp.
I have NAD C316Bee V2 and Fosi TB10D + Aiyima A07 amps and the NAD sounds much fuller and much more natural. Plus it has a real preamp section with a MM Phono input and a very good headphone amp. No comparison whatsoever!!!
I recently got the SMSL-DA9 for my office and it is exceeding my expectations. I was using a vintage Kenwood KR-V95R from 1985 but wanted to downsize. Well, no downsize in sound quality. This little guy has surprisingly full note weight, is feature packed and the imaging is breakneck fantastic.
Note: the DA9 is paired mostly with a Topping E50. When settling into a good listening session it is paired with the SMSL-SU9 through the Schiit Lokius. My speakers are Sony SSCS5 paired with an Acoustic Audio PSW8 sub. I typically listen at ~70-80db, but the sound is clean and clear up to and well above 100db as well. Good times!
Love your videos!
Smsl, topping, fiio are one of the good one..
SMSL chi-fi audio gear destroy all the "good and well know" audio brand left and right, there is no way back, "boutique" gear era is dead, people need to wake the F up.
I've bought AIYIMA T9 for 99$ and to be honest, it's fantastic for the price (even though the tubes are just a gimmick). With my Klipsch RP-600M speakers, Wharfedale SW-150 subwoofer and WiiM Mini streamer, whole setup costed me around 800$. All the gear is new/unused and the overall quality is actually very decent (compared to the price of course) listening in medium to large size room. I honestly doubt anything can beat that in given price range and I'm thankful to our Chinese bros, for making this all possible :)
For nearfield experience, KRK Rokit 5 G4 is also a good budget choice with a decent audio interface.
Interesting video! I used to own an Ayima that I listened to in my living room with my 94 Db speaker (7 feet away) and thought it sounded as good any other amplifiers...loud enough and no volume problem. Honestly, I don't think that's much worse than spending north of $1,000-$2,000 for a flea watt tube amp with 1% THD that can power only a handful of extremely sensitive speakers!
"Used to own", what do you use now?
@@robinsonbrand I decided to go a different route by using active speakers. I have the Rotel 1590 MkII preamp with the Adam A77H (I hope you get the chance to review them!). I honestly don't see myself upgrading anytime soon unless I can, one day, afford the Dutch & Dutch or the Kii Audio
Appreciate the video and you are right about the Cambridge. I bought the Fosi 20a pro just out of curiosity and have not been disappointed. It powers my 93db sensitive Zingali speakers and my Kef LS50s to high volumes in a large room and the audio was really pretty enjoyable. My normal amps are, respectively 25 and 60 times more expensive, and I won't be getting rid of them any time soon but the wee amp is fun.
The brightness and sibilance is noticeable but not too bad and disappeared after swapping the op amps to Burson Audio ( though I had to modify the casework to fit them in ). Of course that bumps the cost up if you don't have op amps lying around like I did.
I seriously LOVE you both and not only the content but the WAY you present the content. I own an Ayima A07, Fosi TB10D, Fosi BT20Pro, and Fosi V3. I’m super happy with all of them. My office setup consists of a Marantz slim series receiver that would go into protection trying to drive my Wharfedale speakers that dip before 4 ohms. I added the Fosi TB10D as a power amp through the Marantz’s pre outs and not only does it sound better, but the amp runs cool and has never shut down. And I have tone controls that really work! We can disagree, and that’s ok.
Hi Andrew, timely video! I have no way of measuring frequently response as you do. I actually purchased the Ayuma A08 about a month ago just for fun. Just to see what it would sound like connected to my existing system. I had it drive my Paradigm Signature S8 towers. I know that's a little ridiculous but I am truly amazed at how well it drove them. I only listened through blue tooth and Spotify off my phone, so really not the ideal for quality and yet I have to say I was surprised at the sound quality and even more so at the levels of volume it reached. Not replacing my Anthem separates with it😁 but it definitely surpassed my expectations. Great video as always!
Most times the noise you're hearing comes from the power supply brick. I would not use a 48volt 10 amp supply. That's courting disaster as it's too close to upper limit of the components used. Most diy forums reccomend 36v 10amp for the amps that use the tpa3255 to chip like the Aiyima A07 or similar. That gives you the same available power as a 48volt 8.3amp supply. I use a cage type power supply at the 36v 10amp rating and get no noise. Cost is about $40 including cables. Also some of the units have swappable opamps that can improve the sound. That's an additional $12 to $20. I went for the opa627 modules which ran $20 for both channels. Lastly these amps are meant for budget systems. I don't know of anyone who would expect to use these in a system with the speakers you used. The best I have used are the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2s.
I have the Aiyima on my 400 sq ft screened in porch hooked up to 4 Bose vintage outdoor speakers and it rocks! I would highly recommend it for that type of application. I use a Cambridge AKA 35 in my bedroom system and agree that the warm British sound is preferable to the cheap Aiyima. But, I have used the Aiyima to drive my Klipsch LaScalas and Heresy’s and I have to say it is pretty darn good.
Fantastic video! Few people ever cover this. This high frequency sound you speak of could be unfiltered switching frequency noise (all class D amps use PWM - Pulse Width Modulation signals (square waves) that are then converted to sine waves using a low pass filter) this square wave at 0 output is running at 50% duty cycle and is still at full amplitude (usually running at a frequency much above our hearing, at least above 40Khz ). Problem is... some times the filters don't do a great job (bad quality or not a steep enough slope) and some of it and/or harmonics of that switching frequency waveform get through. I don't use them anywhere near pets.. My dogs will split the moment one is turned on in a room. A properly designed amp will not have much of it sneak by, and if it does won't be noticeable.
I have a Fosi TB10D. I think it is a nifty little amp. I haven't experienced any kind of noise from it even when turning it up all the way and listening carefully near my speaker. I do hear a clear and annoying buzz coming out of the power supply itself when no sound is playing.That is not transferred to the speakers.
I think it has a use case but not necessarily for an audiophile listening experience in my living room. It is very portable and takes up almost no space. I agree you should use speakers that are a bit rolled off. It can drive my 87DB Quadral Maxi 440 Outdoor speakers fine to pretty big levels. A good party setup. Not a critical listening use case. I also use that in my bedroom where I have to turn down bass quite a bit an up the treble a bit. (Partly because they are right against the wall due to space issues). I haven't tried any of my larger speakers with them, because I wouldn't expect that to sound any better than the Class A/B vintage Sansui's I have. My intended use case for it is a light weight mobile setup (phone/tablet>dongle dac amp>light weight speakers). For that that it works great for me. I am interested in the BT20A pro because you can roll op-amps, but you can probably achieve more with a little tube pre-amp/buffer (less than 40 dollars until you start rolling tubes and replacing op-amps, which you should because the improvements are massive) in front of one. I think they are fun little pocket amps to play with. I never considered one to drive my main system. If you keep a use case in mind like I have for them I would fully recommend one. But they are not audiophile material. Although I am curious how far you can improve on them with a better power supply, op-amp rolling, tube amplification, better capacitors. I realize I would very quickly exceed the price of a AXA25 or 35 that way or a AXR-100 but it is fun to play with and that is also worth something.
Do not fear a lot of people will get these amps anyway because they are very cheap and they will end up with a sub par experience. What ever you say they will get one anyway. Probably a worse one than any of these because they are more convenient because they are in a cheap sound bar you can bluetooth to.
I love that these cheap amps are getting as good as they are. I had some passive Klipsch speakers sitting in a room unused and wanted to put them in my garage. The V3 was perfect for the job. Does it sound as good as my Yamaha A-S1100 or Denon PMA-600? No, it's missing some of the warmth that I like from those amps. But it's close and more than enough for a second or third setup. Heck, it blows the pants off the first amp I got back in the day when I started getting into audio and I would have loved to have the V3 back then. The barrier to entry for good audio is getting lower every year, and that's fantastic!
FWIW, I'm using the Ayima D05 (not mentioned in this review) for my desktop 2.1 setup and it fits my use-case perfectly. I'm using a pair of (very old) JBL reference bookshelf speakers and a Kanto Sub6 and this little system PUMPS! Yes, it's a small room. Yes, I am listening near field. But that little amp it exceeds all my expectations for it and is a massive improvement over what I was using previously in that room.
Good job and great advice. I recently set up a small system in our study with a pair of reference KEF 70s speakers and a Polk psw 10 sub. I added a Aiyima Ao7, Do5, and a Fosi tb10d just to see how they sound. One thing you didn't discuss is volume controls are way to sensitive on most of these amps. generally, the sound quality is pretty good with the Fosi a little fuller and the Ao7 a little thinner as you described. The Do5 is a different case as it has so many tone profiles and adjustments but when set flat it is a bit harsh.
With each amp and placing my ear right next to the speaker I didn't hear the high pitch sound you described? Anyway, these can be fun little amps to experiment with if you in fact expect them to impart their own sound signatures and don't expect giant killers.
I have 2 Fosi BT20A Pro and 1 Aiyima A07 Pro. 1 Fosi is connected to Energy C1 for near field. The other is connected to Energy e:xl28p in the living room. The Aiyima is connected to a couple of Vocopro Karaoke speakers. No issues with high pitch noise described in your video in with any of them. I run the Energy towers hours at a time at medium volume. The Aiyima gets a workout weekly for 4 to 5 hr 85db+ karaoke party in a 13x19 room. I have tested the Aiyima with Klipsch R625FA in the same room and no issue driving them at all.
I just got the Fosi BT20A Pro for my garage. Used it heavily over the weekend. Enjoyed it so far but did not really crank it up. Hard to complain about an $80 amp and music streamed via Bluetooth. Excellent video.
I've had one for a week hooked to my Polk xt20 's and they sound great
Agreed! I have one powering my outdoor Polk speakers in the backyard and it sounds great. Fantastic little amp as long as you know what you are getting.
Real hard to complain such a priced amp.
Just hooked up the Fosi bt30d Pro last night for my garage setup… paired with some pioneer speakers from the 80’s. And a leftover passive sub from an older Sony 5.1 surround system that I just retired.
For a garage system I feel totally comfortable with saving a few bucks, getting the system up and running on a $110 amp
These are desktop amps. If you need something that takes up little space and can drive real speakers with ease, than that's what these are designed for. Many have great inputs/outputs (subwoofer support, etc.) and they run cool and the signals have been clean to my ear, as in no high pitched whine---at all. Maybe you need to check on your power delivery (A/C outlets etc.), it might not be as clean as you think it is. Just a suggestion.
As someone who owns the Aiyima. For me I purchased it as a replacement for a used Cambridge amp that had noise problems. At the price that the Aiyima was, it has enabled me to listen to music on my cheap Wharfedale 9.1 pair in my small London apartment. Although I do agree with the criticisms in the video, I think you have missed the point for why these get bought. Typically they are a stop gap purchase for those not wanting to buy used gear and also do t yet have the funds to buy anything better new. Everything in my system was purchased new and I was aware of the limitations they came with. But I would rather be listening to music for a year than not, whilst I save for some upgrades. Plus I did have an issue with an Aiyima product and they sent me a replacement unit no questions asked without the need for returning the original. Which is probably better customer service than many known/traditional brands. All in I am happy with knowing I spent very little and have listened to lots of music. Not ideal but as we all know non of us will ever really be happy with any setup. As we look for the elusive perfect system.
I bought an Arylic B50 and use it to drive a used pair of $80 Cambridge Audio speakers and have a used $40 NAD cd player on it as well. Considering the B50 also handles Bluetooth and a Phono input as well, for $250 all in as a basement setup, it’s pretty ace.
I love your honest, sincere analysis of all products, regardless of price. It's very refreshing!
I have an old separates system I bought in 1994 but has been in boxes since 2004. Accurus A250 power amp, Accurus preamp (don't remember the model number, an Advom GFT II tuner and a Cambridge Sounworks sub/sat system. Old-school, I know! But I bought it all at once (along with a Phillips 5 CD carousel) and enjoyed that system for years!
I think it's high time to upgrade and your videos definitely are steering me in the right direction.
Thank you for your guidance and evaluations!
To be honest given the rapid improvements to Fosi Audio's line-up since this video was produced, I feel this information is rather out-of-date.
As someone who owns and uses two Fosi TB 10 D amps I’d say these inexpensive pieces are the epitome of ‘right tool for the right job.’ For me, each amp powers a set of Atmos speakers through the pre-amp on my A/V receiver and they’re great in my room. Do they compete with the Crown XLI amps that power the other speakers? Of course not. But they do the job and they fit what was left of the budget; I’d rather have somewhat compromised Atmos than no Atmos. I also liked them for reasonable volume 2-channel listening…a bit one dimensional but really fun and engaging.
I can see the downsides and expectations definitely need to be managed. But to borrow a phrase from the photography world, the best amp is the one you have. That $5000 amp on the shelf over there that all the audiophiles rave about? It’s probably great. I’m also never going to buy it because that just isn’t the audio sandbox I play in. But I’ll be using and enjoying the Fosi(s) tonight and that has a lot of value to me personally.
As a former professional photographer, I appreciate the analogy but let's be real. If you had a camera that might suddenly fail on you in the middle of a paid job or simply during an important moment you want captured, that would be a real problem.
@@KristiWright If I witness something spontaneously awesome and all I’ve got is my old cell phone camera should I not take the picture? Using these amps for anything professional or even mid-tier is definitely using the wrong tool for the job. They’re not ‘giant killers’ in any way. But I don’t think that is what most people are doing with them. They’re in garage systems, or desktops, or attached to a kid’s first set of passive speakers. Or providing supplementary Atmos where there was none. I think they’re great for those types of applications.
@Jake respectfully, Kristi is NOT saying don't take the picture. I think we're starting to mix a few too many metaphors when we can just keep it to audio. As stated in this video, for nearfield, casual or ambient music level listening these amps MAY be enough or MAY work fine and not damage one's speakers. But for those who claim these amps are "the best" or "best amp I've ever heard", I hope this video urges some caution, because the term "best" --even if at a specific budget --should be reserved for applications where quality, accuracy and reliability DO MATTER. To that end, these amps do not appear to hold up. That's all I'm saying.
If you want to throw one of these in a garage and rock out while doing woodworking projects or wrenching on a project car, I say, DO IT. Do it because if you get sawdust on it or a little engine oil you're not likely to care too much --same story if listening at 30-40dB at your desk so as not to piss off your office mates. Hope this helps clear things up.
I think we’re totally on the same page and I meant no disrespect to Kristi whatsoever if it came across that way. If they’re the ‘best’ someone can do and/or it brings someone enjoyment that they would otherwise not have, I think that’s cool. And some tempering of the internet enthusiasm is cool, and warranted, too.
@@jake46467 We are on the same page and there was no offense taken...
I got into a Bang & Olufsen rabbit hole buying their gear used and you can get insane deals. I don’t understand why people hate them, maybe for their retail price? I think they sound amazing, there’s more fidelity with each upgrade, and then put the older speakers in the back for a surround sound! I started with 6000’s then 8000’s then 9’s and now I have a 7.1 surround sound! I paid a couple grand for a system that would have retailed for around $40,000!
I'll throw in my experience. I first set up a "proper" home theater 12 some odd years ago with some Polk TSI100s as my primary. They were, you know, fine. Finally decided to go further into the hobby a couple years back but kept the old Polks in my closet since their re-sale was essentially nil. In the last 2 months I turned an old closet into an ultra-mini home office (think 5'x6'). I knew I'd be primary listening to anything in there with headphones, but hey, I had those Polks, why not set em up? After plenty of researching and debating, I just got over myself and got a tiny Fosi 2 channel amp with bluetooth.
It rocks. It is more than I could have asked for. I find myself just chilling in there with some soft music all the time. I have a whole living room with an expensive, calibrated system... but honestly the vibe in my little Hobbit hole makes for a better overall listening experience.
Lots to unpack here. I have Aiyima, Douk, and Fosi amps, Topping E50 and Ifi DACs, Echo Link and WiiM streamers and Sony, Polk, Jamo, Mission and Tannoy speakers with Polk and Yamaha subs. So, I’m invested in good, cheap, audio, man. I’ve always taken the power ratings with the appropriate amount of salt. I've never had the issues you ran into.
I also have a Yamaha and two top shelf Sony AVR’s in the big rooms and some embarrassingly huge older Onkyos in the workshop.
I’ve followed a variety of high follower audio reviewers for years now and you are the first to discover the issues you report. I don’t believe for an instant that you are motivated to discredit other reviewers or protect your supply of higher dollar equipment. But if ALL of the amps exhibited high pitched whines when no one else has noticed this, some more investigation or attempt at measured explanation may be in order.
The Fosi Pro you recommend is really awesome. It costed me less then 100€ incl. tax and it replaces a full A/B power amp of honderds of dollars/euro’s. No lack of bass at all. The Bluetooth is really good. A good DAC with pre amp and volume Control is 100€, spdif out from your smart tv and there you go!
I purchased a FOSI Audio BT20A to power a pair of Polk Atrium 6 outdoor speakers. I did this because the outdoor speakers were previously being powered by my Onkyo TXSR-805's Zone 2 input that did not have Bluetooth connectivity. After plugging in the speaker wires to the new little amp and my Onkyo Pre Out, I must say, I was impressed. I feel the sound was equal to, if not better, and I now had Bluetooth connectivity. As noted in this video, I think there are some great use cases for these little amps, but I would definitely look up market to power full size speakers or a home theater, especially if you have a more discerning ear.
I tend to disagree. The current crop of Chi-Fi Class D amps are beginning to put the overpriced "audioplhile" companies on notice.
I love the affordable competition aspect, however longevity is yet to be seen, and audible limitations in large rooms, more expensive upgrades that are nessacery, ill probably stick with the traditional mid range equipment I've grown to love, I have a 20 year old harmon kardon that still puts a smile on my face..
Dear Andrew and Wendy,
Thoroughly enjoy your videos and admire the fact that both you and Wendy can enjoy music and communicate together with it! After all , it's all about music, not effects or bells and whistle~
Thank you for bringing this review out on these cheap little Class D amps. I confess that I am a happy camper of this little Aiyima A08pro. When I was first presented this little Aiyima A08pro to try out by Doctor John, I was a bit skeptical indeed. Using the stock power supply with 32V, it surprised me since it does have ample power to drive my Dynaudio speaker with the notoriously hard to drive first generation Esotar tweeter to a respectable level but may sounding a but hard when played loud and lacking the u;timate musicality in my 200 sq.ft living room. One thing that chages it completely, I inserted an Elekit TU875 tube preamp to pair and only when this time synergy happens. The overall musical presentation, dynamics has striked a perfect balance and bested my highly regarded AVC preamp plus 47Lab Gaincard (duo Power Humpty) combo . I did not expect results like this at all!
Aiyima was regarded a little toy to me and I was well expected to say a few good things or not even and return it to manufactuerer but this little gem ended up fixated firmly into my setup at the end! Right now, I can fully immerse into music compeltely and be able to understand more on how the musicians interpret the music pieces and pick up all the nuances of every small bit of essential music details with tons of harmonics and overtones!
This little Aiyima A08pro may not suit everyone but in my setup, it excels and surpasses performances of my previous setups and makes a perfect match to my Dynaudio and have me uncover further potential of the speakers.
Despite it sounds too good to be true, but I am comparing my combo to a lot setups times and times more expensive from my friends and I don't feel a bit inferior and in fact, I'm preferring my setup in terms of added sheer musicality and music immersion which is what I treasure most!
For all those who bought these little Class D amps, before you cast this amp in stone, be sure to pair it with a decent tube preamp to ameliorate the harshness and edges , perhaps you can get similar or better sound like the Heaven 11 Billy integrated amp (at fraction of the price to the already bargain price of Billy) which hsa housed a tube line stage and class D amplification within the unit~
Andrew, before you packed it back in the boxes, please give them a try with a tube linestage or even a tube buffer and see if you like it!
cheers and keep up with your great works!
E Lo
One last comment. I'm sure generating ongoing content includes many considerations but due to the unique skill set both you and Kristi possess, expanding your product selection has to be a natural and ongoing discussion between both of you. I would simply suggest that when considering expanding, please consider smart home products. I think this category would benefit greatly from your knowledge and insigt; I know of no other smart home channels that deliver content on your level. This seems like a natural expansion that also provides an ability to expand viewership in an extremely popular and growing category :)
I never thought you guys would review this area of hi fi, so when I saw this entry, I got excited. I recently purchased the Aiyima A 08 Pro just for the fun of it. My system is made up of this little amp combined with a Schiit Modi+ and a Sony DVD player as a CD drive and a pair of JBL 530s. I am so blown away by the total sound that I find it difficult to pull myself away to listen to any one of the five other systems I own any of which cost easily more than 10X the price of this new little system. BTW, my Aiyima came with a 32v 5a power supply and it will push the 86db sensitive JBLs to ear splitting levels.
I can not discount your experience but I think it is important to share another side. I generally agree with Kristi's and your opinions in your reviews but in this case I must disagree with your assessment on the Aiyima.
On a personal note for Kristi, I wish you would appear on Andrew's side of the camera more. I think you look great and possess an engaging personality. Many times I think you represent the average audio enthusiast more than Andrew. Most of us do not possess his knowledge of the industry not do we have perfect ears. We simply like what we like often without knowing why.
I would like to close by saying, keep up the great work. I have picked up some expensive equipment in part due to your reviews.
Currently running a 3 year old A07 amp with 530s and my Fluance turntable rig. The sound is fantastic. Almost a year and still impressed. I have also paired with a Sony DVD player and a SMSL dac with the same results.
Been into audio more years than I care to say, lol. I don’t think I am easily impressed but I would have to spend into the thousands as a teenager to achieve what a few hundred can achieve now. Quality audio has never been more available or affordable than today.
@@timothylewis2450 so whats the sonic difference compare to your high end system? or maybe as you aged your ears are not as sensitive compare to your youth?
I relate to your experience. I've been in the audiophile hobby for over 30 years and in this time have owned five-figure audio systems. My latest mini-combo of Aiyima T10 DAC-preamp and pair of A07s used as monoblocks, IMHO, are 90% as good sonically as the best I've owned costing 10x the price. I think too many audiophiles subjectively apply a bias of price vs performance when it comes to equipment. I've matured enough in my audiophile journey to reject this bias. When listen to gear now I simply ask myself one question: Is it musically satisfying or not? With the T10-A07 combo, the answer is a unequivocal YES.
@@erictheblue7256 maybe you've aged and your ears can't tell the difference?
@@MasterofPlay7 Could be: And IF your assertion is true, it is what it is. I guess with this mini-gear it works to my advantage.😁
Ok, I agree to a point. My grandson's girlfriend listens to music on her iPhone. These amps would be a huge upgrade with a cheap pair of speakers for someone just getting started in audio. And we need young people to start trying component audio. I have several hi end systems myself however, I also have two of the Fossi Audio TB 10D amps. One is in my mother's garage with my pool table and another one is in my garage with my wood shop. I stream from my Iphone connected to a Audioquest red Dac and connected to inexpensive bookshelf speakers. They both sound great for the purpose. They also only cost $60.00 each on sale. I would highly recommend these amps to someone getting started and for someone else looking for audio in a shop or garage. I have no problem with the volumn in a two car garage. The Fossi audio with the tone controls is very useful for controling the hi frequencies and perhaps the bass.
Good review.
For anyone considering one of these amps I highly recommend seeing what is available 2nd hand. Often you'll find modest classic type amps for little money, getting one of those can mean better quality and less limitations in power and all.
A used AVR, even for a 2.0 or 2.1 setup can be a great value too. They come with a DAC, sub out and a remote. Admittedly, the form factor may not be good for desktop use.
I would not recommend second hand unless you have technical knowledge. Or are willing to spend extra on maintenance or repairs
Most older amps are just as good as their rebuild is.
I have an Aiyima A08 Pro and it’s been solid for my desktop system.
I’d NEVER use it as a main system amplifier but for something to take up very little space while sounding more than decent, I’m happy with the purchase.
Now one improvement I wish Aiyima would make is some play in the volume knob on mine
Interesting topic and valid points, but for me cheap chinese products work. I use a SMSL a300 (has internal PSU) + topping e30 in a small apartment living room, with Polk r200 and a sub. Sounds great to me, have no issues and I never went to even half the volume dial.
I own a Aiyima A07 which I use to drive a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.1 speakers in my bedroom. I use a 36V 6A power supply sold by Aiyima which has no brand on the label. I have also used my MSI Laptop's Chicony brand Power Supply - 19.5V 6.15A. Both the power supplies can drive the speakers much louder than I can tolerate. I often use my Shanling Q1 digital audio player or my MSI Laptop to play music mostly from FLAC files. I am very happy with the sound A07 + Evo 4.1s produce. It took me a while to set up the speakers correctly with some toe in. Now I enjoy the music with good stereo separation and imaging. It doesn't look like the sound is coming either out of the left or right speakers. The speakers disappear. I can identify where the instruments or vocalists are located. I can even feel the size of the environment like a club or a large auditorium or an arena. The sound quality is great. With the 36v 6A power supply, if I keep the A07 on and the RCA cable (Cable Creations) unconnected to any source like my Q1 or laptop for a long time then I could occasionally hear a faint hum. As soon as I connect the cable to a source the hum disappears. I replaced the RCA cables (Amazon Basics) and the hum disappeared. If either of the RCA cables are connected to a source and turned on but no music playing then there is no hum even if the A07 is kept on for hours together. I have turned the volume knob to maximum and with my ears next to the speakers, I have not heard any hum or any noise. Only silence. I think the hum is caused by the quality of shielding of the RCA cables which picks up some inductance from other sources of electromagnetic interference. I have a fan in my room. I once tuned that on at full speed while the A07 was on and the RCA cable was not connected to any source and the hum appeared. That is what made me suspect the cable was picking up some electromagnetic intereference from the fan motor being the source of the signal causing the hum not the amplifier. So, if I have stopped playing music I continue to keep everything connected or I switch the A07 off. So, I don't experience any hum.
The reason I typed this long comment is because Andrew (whose recommendation of the Evo 4.1 influenced my purchase), says all the amplifiers have a high frequency noise or distortion. While I am not a technical expert, my gut feel is that the amplifiers may not be the source of the high frequency noise or hum but the RCA cable may be the problem. I use a Aiyima A07 which was not a part of the list of amplifiers Andrew tested, so it is also possible that Andrew is right that the ones he has may have a problem. Mine doesn't.
@@praneshsarangi I have used a A07 for nearly 4 years now with a number of different speakers and have never experienced any hum or whining. I always check speakers and amps for noise.
@@praneshsarangi it seems like better-designed amps would be more tolerant of RF noise coming in over audio or power cables. if you are amplifying audio, you don't want 100+kHz switching power supply or cell phone frequencies coming through the circuit. RF chokes on the inputs might help in addition to your observation that more shielding on the cables works.
at the price point of these little amps, I don't mind doing a bit of tweaking, but boy that noise can sometimes be incredibly annoying.
I have tried a few of these amps with different results. The main issue I have is the terrible power supplies.
Decent power supplies cost money, which is why traditional amps are more expensive.
For some, these amps are the only affordable option so I think they are a great entry level option.
I will definitely have an eye on the market and look for reviews in the future. Some of these amps are actually quite nice
With these kind of amps, the power supply is reusable...
And it doesn't ask for much, just a switching power supply would do. Add some capacitor banks and it will handle crazy dynamic load.
QOTD: I had purchased a class D SMSL DAC/amp combo for my home desk. I returned it the next day and got the Schitt Modi DAC instead. I used a big Realistic amp from the 80’s as an amp. I just recently got the G-horn from Schitt and paired it with the Modi. Sounds great. 15 watts AB and I’m a happy camper. Yes, it was $300 but space on my desk is a premium. Nearfield listening only but can rock the guest bedroom/office okay with 90 dB bookshelf speakers. Venturi V52s.
Good take on this stuff. I think the application here is absolutely critical. 🤘🏼🎸🤘🏼
100% what you said about waiting to save a bit more to get a better result. So many people nowadays want everything straight away. If people spend the time to sit down and create a budget goal they’d be surprised with some of the options that become available after saving a couple of weeks or months extra for something.
Living in Australia most US based prices are effectively doubled when taking into account currency conversion and import freight costs. Late last year I was at the point of choosing between a cheap(ish) dac amp config or putting my money behind an integrated amp and speakers. Watching various content creators including your channel and reading other reviews on a wide range of products, I decided to go for the Yamaha AS301 amp coupled with a pair of Dali Spektor2 speakers and I haven't looked back since. I love the richness of the sound coming out from my turntable, and whilst some reviewers have said to consider an add-on subwoofer to the mix to augment the Dali's, I have found that the Spektor2's actually give a decent level of low frequency and whilst not hitting the bottom end fully, they still produce a nice deepish bass sound.
Yes! Import fees aré a huge deal for certain people, i've seen products being sold at 3 or 4 times their cost
Yes, I love my Dali Spektor 1s paired with a subwoofer. I upgraded to a speaker 3 times the price but have gone back to the Dalis as the midrange is so natural and nice. I'm in NZ and feel your pain about pricing on this side of the world.
For example the Cambridge Audio AXA25 is $1300 AUD on Amazon AU. That's about $700 US so it's not a budget amplifier here.
Amps made in China are very affordable when purchased from Australia. The build quality is exceptional and most use tube amplification. I purchased a very good 2 channel tube preamp with twin power transformers and discrete channel design for about $400 AUD. The same type of amplifier would cost about $2,000 if purchased from the US or Europe.
Most of the Most these days are class D chips made by Texas instruments. Tpa3116, tpa3255, tpa3221 etc ... They are very small, very efficient little chips, and with the proper hardware support and filtering, they can sound just as amazing as very high end amps for pennies on the dollar.
Which brand and model was it? Did you buy from AliExpress?
@@Salman15474 Hi, mate. The brand name is Sengterbelle. Model number ;JP 2000 (based on the Jardis JP 200 Preamplifier) I bought it on Ebay China.
I recently moved in with my son (he’s a gem) and his system has my old Yamaha TSR 5800, I.e. “Costco special” 5.1 receiver. Rated to 6 ohms. I replaced his mid-fi Polk bookshelves with Emotiva T2 towers rated 4 ohms. Now, they were driven for sure, easily 88 SPL, no shutdowns. But they sounded a bit dull. No treble sparkle, little articulation in the leading edge of bass notes. So, not expecting much, I hooked up my SMSL DA-9 Infineon Class D amp. Easily, immediately better at all volume levels. Paul McCartney’s bass gets truly low in “Come Together.” The SMSL handled it nicely. Happiness for 2 channel but what about surround? Well the Emotiva have two sets of jacks for bi-wiring. I just “added” cabling to the unused jacks for a “dealer’s choice” of amping. I assume that if both receiver and SMSL amp attempt to drive the speakers simultaneously then truly bad things will happen. So when done with 2 channel listening I don’t just turn the SMSL off, I also unplug it. (Hooray for 3 pin detachable power cables!). There’s a lot to love about the entry-level Yamaha “sound shaping” features, but they can’t make up for a so-so amp sub-system when wanting 2 channel IMHO.
i've got a FOSI audio BT30D pro in front of me right now plugged into 2 SVS Prime pinnacles 2 Sony SSCS5s and 1 SVS SB1000 Pro... just turned the volume to max with absolutely 0 noise.
i Db tested these and they'll easily push them up past 100 and i hit my sweet spot at 80 Db average just past 2 oclock on the dial. It sounds amazing. I've got 0 difficulties so far, it's full, deep, and honestly makes me wonder why i'd buy anything else.
**edit** I bought the BT30D pro for 70 bucks on amazon :)
Andrew, glad to see you taking a look at these cheap class D amps. Your opinion is always a helpful guide. I own the Aiyima A07, measuring a true 50wpc@8ohm and 90wpc@4ohm at 1%distortion.
Regarding your noise problem, both my Aiyima A07 and SMSL TDA7498E are quiet as a mouse. But neither have tone controls, and perhaps that's the source of your noise problem?
I use KEF Q350s with my Aiyima A07 and it's a very good amp for the price, easily beating out the puffy, less pure, and weak-as-a-kitten Cambridge AXA35 which was a big disappointment after reading rave reviews, so I returned it.
The Aiyima A07 is very clear, dynamic, airy and open, with a high startle factor and presence. It's not a giant killer of course, but it's surprisingly good for the price.
However, I certainly agree with you regarding the tone of cheap class D amps. As clear as they are in portraying budget class AB amps as fuzzy and less detailed in comparison, budget class D amps all lack body and weight. You'll never hear them described as rich. They always sound leaner in the upper bass, lower mids, as you point out..
And once you live with them for awhile, you may grow to realize that the very detailed Class D sound, is more clinical, and less involving than a good class AB amp. At least that's my experience.
Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, it would be interesting to hear your take on the noiseless Aiyima A07, the best of the cheapie class Ds.
I had the same experience with the ao7 - it's a remarkably sweet little unit, and it's disappointing that the the components discussed here are among the worst of of the worst in this class of gear. I gave my a07 away when I got an smsl da9 which is much weightier in bass regions (though slightly less detailed) and it's really a fun listen, but you're right - at least ime - that class D still needs some refinement to really sound both detailed AND full. I personally am planning to order the Fosi ZA3 when it's available again, as I think being able to easily roll the opamps could be a game changer - there are already some youtube videos that sample the unit with different opamps installed and the differences between them are surprising!
I own the Fosi ZA3 with 48v supply and it is an improvement over my Aiyima A07. It also has a proper subwoofer output. And when 2 are used as Paralleled Mono amps, it doubles the Current output to drive difficult low impedance speakers. This means a 3 or 4 ohm speaker will look like an easier 6 or 8 ohm load.
But I suspect the extra cost of expensive opamps will propel this cheap amp into Rotel A11 category and I'm not sure if it can compete at that level. I haven't heard the Rotel A11 but it also includes tone controls, 2 pairs of speaker outputs, Phono and BT. @@lisar3944
I bought a Fosi 30Pro. its a lot of fun. life isnt difficult, dont make it that way. I wasnt buying an Apollo Moon Capsule.
I am now using a similar Fosi amp with subout. You're right in saying that near field listening is it. But i tweaked a bit by adding a preamp and what I'm hearing is gloriously good. My TV audio out goes to the Brzhifi preamp and into the fosi. My mid and hi range speakers are Bose external speakers and my sub is a retro from a Yamaha 5.1. The Yamaha gave way years back. So i gambled on the Fosi. Powerful. There are more in the volume knob than when there was no preamp. I like it.
I have an Aiyima T9 hooked up to a pair of JBL Arena speakers to provide audio for my basement TV and it beats the $299 Samsung soundbar I previously used hands down. Concerts and action movies become all the more enjoyable. That little amp cost me $109 only shipped. Couldn't have been better value for money ! The audio hobby should be for all music lovers. The deep-pocketed can enjoy audio Nirvana with Goldmund, McIntosh and Wilson whilst those with modest means can have fun with Fosi, Douk and Aiyima.
I purchased the Loxjie A30 and paired it with my KEF Q100 speakers, in a bedroom setting. It's a nice amp, but it too suffers from the compact class D issues. It would have been better paired with some warmer sounding speakers. The treble extension and revealing nature of the Q100 speakers made for some less than ideal listening at times. Like when listening to "It's Oh So Quiet" by Bjork. When I upgraded to the Cambridge AXA35, using the Schiit Modi Multibit DAC, the sound was right. The transformation was undeniable. I did A/B test using the DAC with the A30. But, the richer, more organic sound of the AXA35 was apparent.
I'm impressed that you covered these cheaper amps. Thanks for thinking out of the box and straying from the popular,or more marketable products. Well done.
Thanks for the confirmation on room and closer listening. My room is heavily dampened, but, I've noticed when pulling the speakers into the middle of the room and chair forward I get more air and clarity. Not as much as I'd like though. I'm thinking of trying the Chord Qutest to give my system a bit more air and detail.
I use a Fosi audio kind of amp with 3 channels (2.1 config) on my desktop PC, paired with two bookshelves and a sub, and it plays very nice and with good volume.
Never tested it outside my bedroom though, but I'm plenty satisfied.
Gotta disagree on this one. My a08 amp works fine outside of the "near field" for me. I don't know what preamp you were using with the a08 or if you were using a preamp at all. The a08 is HIGHLY dependent on a pre amp like aiyima T8, that's why there's a cut out for it to sit on the amp. With the T8 and aO8 both at 70% volume, it pushes my Sony SSCS5s beyond my comfortable listening level. You should have reviewed them as a pair. There's also the question of equalization. Recommending that people not buy a cheap amp simply because it requires good 10 band equalization from the source is silly IMO. Yes these amps require additional purchases to make them good but that doesn't make them a "bad value."
I picked up a Aiyima A07 last year to drive two of my Atmos speakers for my 7.1.4 setup since the 3700h needed it to drive all those. I am assuming it’s a valid use for a cheaper amp, but have wondered if it would benefit to get a better amp for those or maybe get a good amp for the front LR ones (8000F IIs) and plug the rest into the AVR.
Have the exact set up. Use the Aiyima to power rear ceiling speakers. Wondering if I should keep it like that or use an old Sony reciever instead. Just didn't want to add more bulk to my TV cabinet.
This video is a great service to the audio community. I've been skeptical of these amps because of two things: (1) case temperature vs reliability, (2) power vs size. (1) 300W at an optimistic 95% efficiency is 15W amp dissipation. 15W will result in a high amp case temperature, short amp life or failure, likely destroying the speakers (2) A 48V power supply requires approx 14,000uF of output capacitance to deliver 300W (allowing for 10% voltage droop between 120VAC cycles). A 1000uF 50V capacitor is 0.5" dia, 1" long, where is all that capacitance in such a small amp?
We're using an Arylic A50 in our store with a cheap Klipsch sub and some 8" Dayton ceiling speakers and it's been working great with no ill effects. I'm very pleased.
I'm new to hifi, and think those budget amps can make a difference for a newbie.
Do You have the same opinión for the dame brand budget DACs?
Where u place brands like Schiit, Ifi or Fiio?...they kind of in the budget spectrum
I just got the Aiyima A07 with an upgraded power supply and OpAmp for $70. That Cambridge Audio axa-25 is $300. That's roughly 4.5x the cost so it had better perform better! I'll hook up the A07 this weekend and see what all the fuss is about.
Exactly. I have a A07 with a 48v5a psu and it works fantastic. Good luck.
I finally hooked it up and had a quick maybe 30min listening session. 1st impressions the lows and vocals are actually pretty good. Drove my Polk S20s just fine to painfully loud just fine in a 21'x19' room. The highs on the other hand seem to be lacking. It's like truncated or something. High hats don't have a natural decay it's an abrupt stop. I'll listen some more.
I never listed a difference between amplifiers until I bought the Arylic A50+. The sound was terrible! I thought it was some frequency response issue that could be fixed with EQ, but it wasn’t. Listening music through that amp was like listening a low bit rate MP3 like 96 kbps. Lucky me I could sell it for about the same price I payed for. I’m happy you made this video, Andrew. You review about the A50 was one of my references to buy it before.
The save same money and buy a better later - even used - is a good advice and very real-ife scenario. When you see comments that traditional companies have huge margins - yeah, maybe or maybe not - and because of direct sales is cheaper - yes, it can be - and they say that companies are robbing them and everybody can see that it's possible to produce amps cheaer than yes, it's possible but these are not built for years or decades like traditional ones because they are like fast fashion - and think about the environment impact as well. But when you look at the price tag of serious Chinese hifi equipment, like the SMsL VMV line, Kinki Studio etc -> SURPRISE! Price tags are similar to the traditional manufacturer prices....
I understand your perspective, but... Unless you live in the Palace of Marseilles, 50w is more than enough for a 20'X20' room, which is what 95% of the people have.
I tried a fosi, but with a Klipsch speaker, just noisy af, grabbed an old Sony ES instead for a steal.
I just recently got the Fosi BT20a pro and Klipsch r-41m for a little bedroom system and you are exactly correct. The Fosi sounds better with the old 6 ohm bookshelf speakers I thought I was replacing. But I love the Klipsch in the living room sitting on top of Boston Acoustic A100s. I tried the Fosi in the living room A/B testing against my Yamaha 45w/channel receiver and the Yammy stomps it in every subjective way. Now my plan is to get a bigger Yamaha for the living room, move my old receiver to the bedroom and I have no idea what to do with the Fosi. Maybe I'll put it in the kitchen and just use the bluetooth.
The B50 has a DSP chip which can be programmed with the APC workbench software. There are settings to control noise and high frequency hiss (if present) can be eliminated by enabling a high shelf. There are many other settings including EQ for each channel. Please review the APC workbench software features.
Heavy on opinion, light on specs and measurements. Such a wide variety of these little amps available and he only references two of them. I have a TPA3255 chip based Aiyima A07 and it packs quite a punch. I also have a Xrong RT-16F and it is indeed way overrated.
Thank you so much for covering this topic! Your experience with these products mirrors my own. I purchased a Topping PA5, based on a recommendation by a site that shall not be named, and found that the power output was considerably less than advertised. I had to run the amp at 100% output in order to hit 75 dB at 8', and that was as loud as it got. Furthermore, there was inconsistent balance between the channels and worst of all, the PA5 failed within a month. I replaced it with a Bluesound Powernode, which is rated for lower power output than the Topping on paper, but far outperforms it according to my SPL meter. I've since replaced that zone with a Rotel A14 MKII, but I have the Powernode in a bedroom and I am still very pleased with it. There's something to be said for truth in advertising -- thank you for making folks aware of the pitfalls and dodgy advertising associated with these cheap desktop chip amps. Cheers!
Hows that rotel treating you. Im not sure if it will be enough power for my towers
@@roybrolsbeak I love it. There isn't an official spec, but with the large transformer, I'm quite certain it can double-down on power at 4 Ohms. I'm using it to drive a pair of LS50 Metas, but I wouldn't have any qualms about the A14 MKII driving my R11 towers.
I use an Ayima AO7 and T8 with kef q150s and a rel subwoofer, and its great for my entire bedroom.
Thanks for your input on these things. I finally feel like things are put in perspective
Andrew and Kristi, another great review. These products do have their niche. I personally own an Aiyima and A Fosi. I also own older Marantz and Yamaha receivers. My take, these amps make Hi-Fi fun again. I like their form factor. VU meters and tubes give a retro vibe. They sound good enough. I would compare these to the cheap minisystems of the 90's with the flexibility of separates. I would never hook up an RCA or Sharp minisystem of years long past to Klipsch towers. But with Jamo S803 bookshelves, the new Class D sounds good enough for the money. And not bad looking either.
Yeah. Perspective is everything. I just don’t think someone considering a A07/ S803 rig is also considering a Cambridge Axr85/ Revel M16 rig.
I have an Aiyima D05 paired with my JBL L50s, i think it sounds better than most of the previous amps I was using which included the Yamaha AS501.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
@@KristiWright just as an FYI, I don't disagree with anything you guys said. There's definitely issues with many of these products and normally I choose an integrated amp over one of these externally powered amps. I had an issue with cabinet/bookshelf space in my living room, thus I had to find something that took up less space.
Great topic!! I use an inexpensive Topping MX3 paired with the Klipsch RP600 speakers. I use this setup for my family TV time which 90% of the time my 5yr old son is watching UA-cam or the Disney app. This is perfect for us! Doesn't break the bank for a quality set-up. However, I have a separate system in another room for when it's MY time to chill. LOL!
As always, well spoken, clear information with data presented followed by subjective analysis, thank you so much Andrew, you have taught me more about Hifi than John Dark and Steve Gutenberg combined. In fact I purchased my Interga Receiver thanks to your review.
Was great to hear a deep dive into the specs on these and ESPECIALLY the max volume test with the Klipsch and the high pitch noise that could be heard. Williston has performed some good bench tests on some of these that was helpful too. These DO have their place though, especially when limited space is a factor (like the Fosi I have on my patio for music and TV)
I agree. He seems to be a bit dismissive of the completely valid use cases of these amps. Though he does mention near field listening and budgetary constraints, he makes comparisons with other amps many times their costs with speakers potential buyers of these amps are unlikely to use. A skewed comparison at best.
@Timothy Lewis The big issue is the comparison of it with something like the Cambridge Audio AX25 which has "25 watts" of power into 8 ohms which drove the Klipsch RP-8000F to over a 100 dBA but these can only drive it to barely 85 dba.
I was seriously considering a set of the Fosi audio or Aiymaa A08 for my NF listening in my office but I think this review has steered me enough away from it.
What shocked me the most is how the frequency changes EVERYTIME he tested it which makes me suspect the power supply that goes into these units is VERY cheap and poor quality with poor filtering plus it probably has a temperature component.
I bought my (then) 14 y.o. son an Aiyima A9 with some Sony SSCS-5 speakers for his gaming desktop. He loves the VU meter and connectivity options, and I have HOPEFULLY given him a small kickstart down a lifetime path of "there is always better sound to be had". Perfect setup for him at $260 all in.
Andrew, I agree that these amps are best for near field . I am using a SMSL Q5 pro paired with a pair of JBL Studio 530s and two 550p subs for my desk top system. Great for listening to music in my home office. I use the optical input from my sound card. I am also using balanced speaker cables from Mica. Everyone who listens to this set up loves it.
including me, really z1r might look silly but its very 'pro' sounding and likely enough for most ears
Thank you for this review, i bought aiyima 07 and aiyima tube preamp. Absolutely it cannot match my onkyo 9010 not even close.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for the support. We hope you'll join us today for our next video.
Thank you for covering these types of amps! There are other UA-camrs pushing these types of amps without a lot of the caveats that are needed, IMO. I purchased the Fosi BT20 amp last year and found it woefully underpowered to drive older loudspeakers. It's currently powering outdoor speakers for background sound and not critical listening. These amps feel a bit misleading for new or budget audiophile users who think they're getting into HiFi music when they aren't. Kristi's advice is spot on! -- Wait and save up a little more money to get a quality amp from a reputable company i.e. Cambridge AXA35.
100% agree RIck! Thank you for sharing!
I have the fosi pro in a near-field configuration in my GF office running a pair of KEF Q150 and it's not TOO bad. But as you stated sounds thin in the bass reign. We will be adding a powered subwoofer to help add as body to the sound.
I've got a small, near field amp, and I'm very happy with it. It's at a desk and I need the space. For ambient listening and the occasional meeting, it meets all my needs. I noticed the same persistent hiss or noise from my tweeters.
I have experienced the same thing you mention with the AIYIMA A07 and Fosi audio BT20A (with Klipsch bookshelf speakers). High end was too bright for me on both and I ended up returning them. However, I am having a great experience with the updated Aiyima T9 in the exact scenario you stated, close listening for my work from home office setup with a smaller desk space (paired with a sub under the desk). It sounds great. YMMV truly. Great video!
I had that experience with the Fosi BT20A pro with Klipsch R-41m's. Now I'm just using it with my older bookshelf speakers and bluetooth. It's not hifi but it's convenient and sounds ok for doing housework (with a small subwoofer. Ofc you have to remember to turn off the sub before you turn off the Fosi or the sub makes a loud click).
@@kraig7777 I use the same Klipsch, definitely a pattern there.
@@MrBengreen21 I like it so much with the other speakers (Nakamichi from a micro bookshelf system from the late 90s) I just ordered another WiiM Mini and a SMSL SU-1 dac for it. Someday I'll get it a real sub.
@@kraig7777 I got my Klipsch RS100 sub open box which ended up saving me a ton of money
thank you for the enlightment :)
Thank you for a frank, no holds barred, video. Someone needed to make that point. But, at the end of the day, you pay your money, you make your choice. Not many time served audiophiles would be interested in such products unless they’re recuperating from a costly divorce. There are inexpensive options out there that work really well. My home system incorporates a preamp monoblock combo, driving a pair of Kef R11 Meta floor standers. In my office I have a tiny pair of powered speakers one sat either side of my 32 inch PC monitor. They cost me, consumer direct, way less than $200 and really do sound phenomenal, nearfield. I can listen to music I’d never listen to at home, because my home system shows all that is bad in a poor recording.
Those cheap amps could be, to the uninitiated, a stepping stone to something better. However, companies like Cambridge and Rega do offer excellent entry level, affordable, class A/B amps.
I briefly had a $1200 Cambridge integrated amp - my first hifi purchase in decades -- but buyers regret quickly ensued when I realized how many of the features I didn't need. Then along comes Fosi ZA3 w/ 48v power supply for $150 .. all the features I really needed and more power headroom than the Cambridge.
The Kef q150s sounds just as good to me as q350s did on the CXA81 -- maybe even better, as it seems more nimble in dynamic response, but that could be due to smaller drivers and increased efficiency of Class D.
The hidden cost = it doesn't look as nice as a 4 figure boutique amp and might not be as fun to show off.. But it means far more money to invest in things that matter to me, like better speakers. I'd rather get two of Fosi's upcoming monoblocs and some KEF R3 than a much more expensive amp and lesser speakers. Killer sound is all I care about at the end of the day and cheap amps can deliver.